#but i'd definitely go for the length of each expansion

[thefirstknife]

i’ve been slowly reading through the lore books and i noticed in eva’s journey the red war is described as being months long. do we have any idea the time frame between the red war and forsaken?

i’ve always kind of assumed it was around a year, but with curse of osiris and warmind also happening after the red war im not so sure now

I'm also not sure. The Red War itself as an event took a while for sure, but it's unclear to me what's the canon amount of time between the Tower falling and Traveler killing Ghaul. Gameplay wise, it doesn't feel like too long, a few days, a week? But then also the way we see the City in the final mission feels like the legion has been there for weeks. I guess months is also possible, though I genuinely don't think it took us months to get Ghaul out. Months for the aftermath for sure, though. Maybe Eva's book was meant to solidify that the whole situation was indeed months long (3 months, from launch to Curse), despite not feeling that way gameplay wise. I'd generally go for what the lore says since gameplay can't really relay this to us properly.

Both Curse and Warmind are after the Red War "ended" (in the sense that it's after we killed Ghaul). I guess the best bet is to use IRL time frame for these; it's usually how it's measured. So a year for Red War stuff (a few months of dealing with the main stuff and the aftermath + Curse + Warmind and everything in between). Technically we could say that everything from Curse and Warmind also falls under the Red War, or at least the aftermath of it. A lot of what was going on there was somehow fuelled by the Red War and we still had various leftover Red Legion enemies to grapple with. Most notably, the reason things with the Infinite Forest and Xol and Nokris on Mars happened was due to the Traveler's awakening. Also don't forget the appearance of Calus and the Leviathan, as well as the Spire of Stars raid lair which featured a boss that took over Red Legion after Ghaul's death. When we killed him (Val Ca'uor), that was the final nail in the coffin for the Red Legion's stability.

We could even extend that all the way to Season of Dawn and ending in Worthy. In Dawn, the Psion sisters loyal to the Red Legion wanted to use the Sundial to find an alternate timeline where Ghaul wins the Red War. When that failed, the remaining sister ended up doing one last yeehaw by attempting to destroy the City by crashing the Almighty (Ghaul's flagship) into it.

Depending on what we use as the true end of the Red War, it could definitely stretch out to months and even years, though the later stuff is definitely not indicative of the events of Forsaken; those happened after Warmind and I'd generally use the IRL time frame and say there's been a year between the Red War and Forsaken. I'm not sure if there's any specific canon proof of it though. If someone remembers any specific line or lore tab that mentions it, please share!

[fictionalsownme]

"Touch" | season 6 ! keigo takami x reader | WIP BLURB

Hiya! So I've noticed recently that I almost never post my writing on here, even though I write all the time. I'm just so easily distracted I almost never finish things, but I thought I'd start sharing what I do have so some of these little bits can see the light of day hehe :) here's a bit a wrote about how hawks' and the reader's dynamic might shift after his burn and after his personality changes a bit!

disclaimer: this blurb is unedited and unfinished. just wanted to share some WIPs! Enjoy!

Recently, Hawks— Keigo— had been touching you even more than normal.

You would say he’s finding excuses for physical contact, but there’s not even reasons most of the time.

It’d been about a week since you started riding around with him, Jeanist, and Endeavor. All Might, Deku, and some other pros were part of the efforts, too.

Being a civilian, you knew you brought them more risk than aide, but you weren’t totally useless. And now Hawks— now Keigo— insisted on you being by his side.

It’s not as if you and him had never touched before. In the year you’d known him and worked for him, the two of you had actually gotten really close. And when his name was revealed to the public, he asked you to start calling him that all the time.

No one else, just you. It was taking some getting used to.

It wasn’t long after that the touching started. The near constant physical contact.

A steady hand at your back seemed to be his favorite. But there were other motions too. Touching your arm, playing absently with the edge of your jacket, nudging his shoe with yours. Even just keeping you within arms length seemed to be a must.

Not that you didn’t like it. You definitely did. Each touch was so warm and protective, it made you lightheaded. And in these times… any comfort was a blessing.

You figured that’s why he’d been doing it. Just basic coping, nothing more. You understood. Before all this mess, before he’d been burned, you had always been the first to offer hugs and reassurances. You’d even held hands once or twice. Platonically, of course. But nothing like this.

It wasn’t just the physical nature of your relationship changing, either.

He had this air about him when you were near. It simmered when he talked to you, when he touched you or looked in your eyes. An almost… protectiveness. Possessive.

It was the same with his name. He hadn’t asked a single other person to call him Keigo, and no one did. Except you. And he was adamant about it.

You were flattered, and happy to do this for him. But you were a bit embarrassed to admit that you’d been struggling to adjust. You kept using his hero name by mistake. At first he’d just corrected you with an unreadable expression, then started to tease you about it, but now he’d resorted to waiting until you got it right to respond at all. Even though he’d hadn’t been as outwardly playful since he’d been burned, you knew he wasn’t actually mad at you or anything. Another change you understood. He was being more authentic to who he was. More reserved and quiet and thinking. Again, an adjustment to be sure, but you were happy.

You didn’t mind this slightly new dynamic. In fact, you were hopelessly in danger of falling even more in love with him than you already were, the poor man.

You swore that if he slid his palm over the expanse of your back one more time, tenderly whispered your name like that, gave you instructions with a warm, grounding touch… you were going to lose it and confess on the spot.

You stumbled when one of the incapacitated villains stuck their foot out to trip you as you walked past. You glared at him. Tied, gagged, beat up, and still trying to cause shit.

You kicked at his foot.

“Come stand over here,” called Hawks’— fuck, Keigo’s— still slightly raspy voice.

You gave the villain one more stink eye, and came to stand next to where Keigo was leaning against the car. His hand went to your back immediately. Warm even through his glove and your sweater.

It truly concerned you how normal that was starting to feel. How disarming.

He gently rubbed your back with his thumb, his palm flat against your spine, waiting silently for Jeanist and Endeavor to come back with instructions for the goons.

The feeling of his hand… strong and grounding like an anchor… your eyes slid closed after only a few moments.

Like you said, lately comfort was desperately needed and hard to come by. You kept your back straight, clutching your bag to your chest, savoring the feeling of your best friend. There to keep you safe.

When your eyes opened, they slid over to him on instinct. He was watching you.

You cheeks flared but you kept his gaze. He wasn’t… anything really. Not happy or upset or surprised. He just looked back at you, his hand still against you.

God you swore… sometimes you were so ridiculously close to just grabbing him by the stupid jacket and kissing him senseless. Just to feel it, to feel him, to see what he would do. To see if it would really ruin your life like you told yourself it would.

This somewhat new side of him was intriguing to say the least. Not afraid of silence, of a blank expression, of showing he was thinking. Before his burn and the collapse of society, his training kept his expression in a claustrophobic range of cock-sure grin to open laughter. The only exception was when he was squaring off against villains, or simply too tired to mask himself properly. The later was still rare, however. He only ever willingly stopped presenting when the two of you were alone, and you were proud to say you’d gotten very good at seeing beneath it all.

But things were different now. He didn’t bother to hide. As his friend, it was a breath of fresh air, and it was nice to see no one else seemed to mind either. He still laughed and smiled and made stupid quips. But he didn’t bother to be someone he wasn't.

But he’d been changing too, inside. Everyone had. Less hero and more man. Maybe that’s why he’d asked you to start using his name.

[amerricanartwork]

Hewwo!

For ask about rain world

questions: 3,7,8,9

have a great day! ^w^

Nice to see you again! Since they're gonna be long again, the answers are below the cut! I also think I'm gonna have to do this in two parts because of the length, so I'll link the other half when it's done!

For a quick warning, there are some pretty big Rivulet and Saint campaign spoilers down below!

And again, here's the full questionnaire for reference!

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

3. What is your favorite region?

For me, my answer depends on what the criteria for "favorite" is. I'll give 2 answers - one from a gameplay perspective, and one from a concept/artistic perspective.

Gameplay-wise, my favorite region is actually Industrial Complex! I feel it acts best as a personal hub area, and there's two reasons for this.

Industrial Complex is the most strategically located region. To elaborate, I've come to the conclusion that, at least when you start as Survivor, Monk, or Spearmaster, Industrial is approximately equidistant from every other region in terms of how many Karma Gates you have to pass to reach other areas. You have the Outskirts gate, and from there you can go to Farm Arrays and Drainage System, the Chimney Canopy gate which you can use to get to Sky Islands and The Wall, the Garbage Wastes gate which you can use to reach Shoreline, then Submerged Superstructure/Looks to the Moon or Subterranean, and the Shaded Citadel gate which takes you to the Leg, and later Five Pebbles after going through the Underhang. This means that from Industrial every region except Outer Expanse and Metropolis can be reached in 2 gates or less. All of these also exist in vanilla RW, but in Downpour you get a direct link to Pipeyard on top of that, if you like to go for the Wanderer passage like I do!

Of all the regions, Industrial Complex is also a favorite because, to me, it's the least annoying region besides Outskirts. Some are are cool conceptually or fun in certain situations, but with nearly every other region in the game I either don't like them in general — usually due to a mix of uncomfortable terrain layouts, environmental hazards, or annoying enemies — (like Shaded Citadel, Pipeyard, and Shoreline), or in cases like Chimney Canopy, I've had so many bad experiences with them that my resulting opinion has since downgraded noticeably.

Combine these two details with how, as Survivor, Monk, Spearmaster, Artificer, and Gourmand it's a very early-game region that you can go to pretty much immediately, I just think it makes a very good hub-region where I can relax and gain my bearings before moving onward to harder areas.

Now, favorite region in terms of concept?

Definitely has to be Five Pebbles and Looks to the Moon, in all their incarnations (though if I had to pick a favorite version, I think I'd choose the Rot). Seriously, can we just take a moment to appreciate the immensely creative and totally awesome idea that is a sapient city-sized partially organic mechanical superstructure with god-like status? What other game can you say even has anything close to that, be it organic or mechanical? It's honestly part of the reason I enjoy the iterators so much, not even just as characters, but as an incredibly unique "species" that's very fun to explore conceptually.

It was even cooler when, recently, I realized every region in the game (besides perhaps Outskirts, Outer Expanse, and Farm Arrays) is directly connected to the iterator superstructures and, for the most part, used to serve them in some way, once again supporting my idea that they really are central to Rain World's "story". It was so fun trying to piece together what each of the regions used to be and how they assisted Pebbles and Moon, such as Industrial Complex being Side House that gave Pebbles his holy ash, or Sky Islands being his or Moon's main communications arrays. I still remember how excited I was when I realized the Precipice was the bridge the green Metropolis pearl talked about that connected Moon and Pebbles, and that the mysterious metal tower things in the background of Shoreline were the broken beams of the bridge! I don't know, seeing things change over time is also a theme I tend to fancy.

Now, while floating through the Recursive Transform Array or trying to navigate the Cystic Conduit (another area I really don't like for its pipe layout, enemies, and water hazards) isn't exactly my favorite way to play, It's mesmerizing watching the Tesla coils flicker, or seeing the many neurons floating around like schools of fish and making those weird high-pitched whistle-y noises, or listening to the mechanical hum of the deeper parts of the structure, or hearing that mysterious pounding heartbeat (seriously, where is it coming from? Is this to suggest somewhere deep in the structure there is a massive organic heart beating, or some weird heart-like thing pumping... something??).

I want to expand on what I said about the Rot, too. For some context I didn't play through Five Pebbles the first time blind, so I wasn't as captivated by the iterators as a concept then. But this past Thanksgiving I was doing my first Rivulet playthrough and MAN, have I never been more uncomfortable yet fascinated playing a video game as when I was running through the Rot, especially since I, in completionist fashion, was determined to explore every part of it before progressing. Every time I saw the stationary rot cysts (and wasn't running from DLLs) and collapsed rubble with some of the old rooms still recognizable my heart went out to Pebbles so much, and I couldn't stop thinking about what it must feel like for him, literally rotting from the inside out, and what he must be thinking knowing he brought it upon himself and now he really is going to die with no way to stop it. I tend to really admire when art can truly convey a particular idea and the corresponding emotions very well, and I'd say the Rot does that best of all the regions, mainly given the context of everything else that led up to it. And best of all, I think it serves as a major positive turning point for Five Pebbles character-wise, so it even has a silver lining to it!

So yeah, the iterators are my favorite regions in terms of the idea and art of it!

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

7. What is your favorite song from the soundtrack?

This may sound like a bit of a boring choice, but I've always loved "Pictures of the Past", honestly, and by extent "The Cycle" for reasons I'll explain soon. Firstly, I enjoy how, besides the Sundown theme, it's the very first thing you hear in the game, and it's so short yet good at conveying the emotions of the initial Survivor intro cutscene. It's nice to listen to, having a clear emotion but not super intense.

Secondly, something about this song just fits its source material very well. Going back to what I said above about how I like art that conveys an idea really well, I think "Pictures of the Past" just does such a good job of selling that feeling of being a small, strange creature in a huge and even stranger world so artificially changed by a long-gone civilization, yet still slowly returning to the wilds. It sounds sad in a way, yet very wondrous too, and those last notes as the song slows down are like the perfect invitation to explore this new world! Every time I listen to it, it reminds me of how Rain World was like at first, before Downpour and all the expansion on the iterators, when it was just that little creature in an urban world they can't understand.

The third reason I like it so much, and why I enjoy "The Cycle" as well is because it's my favorite example of the "Sundown" leitmotif, which can also be heard in "Random Gods", "Moondown", and "Deep Light" among other songs. If you've read some of my previous posts you can probably already tell I strongly enjoy when elements of a story have some kind of poetic, thematic, or narrative significance, so as a result I really enjoy leitmotifs in art when they're used to help convey a running theme or different perspectives of the same idea. Thus, I naturally gravitated to this one once I discovered it. For a while I've also been trying to develop a personal interpretation of what this particular leitmotif means. I came to the conclusion a while ago that it could in some way represent the Great Cycle or the idea of cycles in general, and while I still have to develop this idea, my suspicion that this is what that leitmotif represents has all but been confirmed upon understanding the soundtrack song, "The Cycle".

Upon hearing this tune in my first Saint playthrough I already loved it, because it sounded so final and emotional and fitting for the last part of this grand story. and the fact it plays around the iterator chamber in Rubicon just further added to the feels and the finality of it all, and made my heart go out to Five Pebbles and Looks to the Moon one more time. To me, it sounds exactly like how they must feel, finally understanding the problem they both worked so hard to solve, yet not being upset, instead having made peace with all the tragedy they've faced, accepting their place in the Great Cycle, and finally ready to move on to the next part; somewhat sad that it's over and they can't go back, yet somehow at peace too. So afterwards I searched for the name of the song to listen to it again, and upon finding it I lost my mind when I discovered it's a reversed and edited version of "Pictures of the Past"! Like, dude, I already loved this song as a sweet send-off to Moon, Pebbles, and Rain World as an experience, and now you're telling me it's the same song as the very first one we hear when we first start playing, thus ending the game by sending us back to where it all began? No wonder it's called "The Cycle" — there's no real end, it really does start all over again in a great big cycle! And it seems like, at this point in the story, Five Pebbles and Looks to the Moon have finally realized it's not something to run from or try to escape. They really have made peace with it, and then it starts all over again.

So, yeah, in short "Pictures of the Past" and "The Cycle" are my favorite OST tracks, because they are fun to listen to, convey the feelings of their corresponding scenes very well, and have deep narrative significance through being intertwined with and parallels to each other, functioning as the perfect beginning and ending of Rain World both as a story and as a game experience.

[bakuliwrites]

Fanfic Writer Questionnaire

I found this great questionnaire! Post is here. I thought I would answer these for fun. I'd love to see other fanfic writer's answers to these as well, if you want!

List all the fandoms you have written in:

The Arcana, Fire Emblem, Jujutsu Kaisen, The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings, My Hero Academia, Castlevania, The Elder Scrolls

How many published fics have you written?

I currently have 22 up on AO3! And a smattering of random Tumblr exclusive short fics.

In terms of wordcount, in which fandom have you written the most?

The Arcana, by far. My total word count for the fandom (excluding headcanons and Tumblr-exclusive fics) is 153,453 words.

At the moment, which one of your fics is your favorite/you are the most proud of? (you can include unpublished fics)

I am definitely most proud of End Up Here. It's my longest work yet and has been an incredible journey so far. It's helped me prove to myself that I a) can write something novel length and b) can stick with one project and be dedicated to it. I feel like it's my love letter to the Arcana, as a piece of media that has helped me find my voice.

Which writer (fanfiction or not) inspires your own work?

J.R.R. Tolkien and Kazuo Ishiguro (mostly in my non-fanfiction writing, but I'm sure they've inevitably inspired elements of my fanfic writing in some way or another, too).

What was your first fanfic about?

Oh gosh. If we are talking very first fanfic that has never seen the light of day, then Star Trek: Deep Space 9 and Star Trek: Voyager (back when I was like 11 or 12 haha). But if we are talking published ones, then it was a spicy Xander x Reader for Fire Emblem: Fates.

Out of all the characters whose POV you have written, which one do you feel you identify the most with?

Great question. Probably Julian Devorak. But I don't necessarily feel that I fully identify with any of them. Just elements of each character I write about, in one way or another. But Julian's tendency towards feeling guilty for things he didn't do and his journey to accept his own strength are things that resonate with me.

What do you feel is your biggest challenge when writing?

Overcoming the idea of perfectionism. I have the tendency to get frustrated and scrap everything when I feel like it's not up to the standard I want it to be. But I'm trying to remind myself that a first draft is a first draft for a reason: it does not have to be perfect. End Up Here has really helped me in learning that lesson, since I write each chapter as I go. There's only one round of me editing each chapter before I publish it, so it's been a huge learning curve for me. And freeing as well.

Do you generally outline your fics or do you prefer to write spontaneously and then revise?

I do a skeleton of an outline and scribble unintelligible notes on scraps of paper or in my notes app on my phone. But a lot of my writing now is just me going with the flow and letting the characters tell me the story. I used to plan a lot, but it became sort of toxic for me and my tendency towards perfectionism, so I stopped being so precise about it. I let things change as they need to.

Which one of your fanfics has the most hits? the most comments? the most kudos? (if applicable)

Intimate has the most by far on AO3! And Upon a Forest Throne has the most on Tumblr. Thank you to everyone for the support and all your many kindnesses 💜

What proportion, if any, of your fics are rated M or above (# of M-plus fics/ total # of fics)?

86% of my fics are rated M or above. I mostly write adult content.

Finally, tease us with the title of one of your upcoming fics:

So, I'm going to come out with a Gojo x Nanami x Reader fic sometime in the future. I plan on calling it Starlight. Here's a teeny little snippet from it:

How Satoru manages to trap infinity in his eyes is a mystery to you. His blindingly azure gaze meets yours, a vast expanse of twinkling starlight imprisoned in icy pools of blue. You glance to the side, met with Kento's softer, brown eyes. He is the sun, radiant and warm, the quiet light of early dawn and late evening. This must be what it feels like to be enveloped by the very fibers of the universe. Held in a delicate balance.

Thank you for reading! This questionnaire was super fun to answer :)

[xiyao-feels]

Nie//yao (MDZS)

So NMJ/JGY is actually getting two versions, because my read on them is wildly different for MDZS vs CQL.

In MDZS I...don't ship it? I mean, there just doesn't seem to be to be anything there at all of a romantic or sexual nature. It's not that they don't care about each other, they clearly do, but it's in a way that is...NMJ as substitute father, JGY as substitute brother, and heavily, heavily inflected by their (current and then former) relationship as superior and subordinate.

Putting this behind a cut because a) it's me explaining at breath length with quotes why I don't think they have a romantic or sexual relationship and I don't want people to have to see that unless they want and b) accordingly it is REALLY LONG and I also don't want to clutter people's dashes, so.

Actually backing up a step, I don't see MDZS NMJ as being attracted to anyone, that's not really specific to JGY. I tend to read him as aspec, tbh. So theoretically he could have romantic feelings about JGY without being attracted to him—I think he may have some quasi-romantic feelings for LXC, though I don't think he conceptualizes it that way—but... honestly, it's not really clear to me that he even likes JGY as a person.

I'm not saying he doesn't like JGY! He clearly does, at least before MY tricks him and flees. But it doesn't seem to have anything to do with MY's personality, as opposed to like—MY being really competent and conducting himself well.

Some quotes about what exactly NMJ values about JGY:

'Nie MingJue interrupted him, “I promoted you not because I wanted you to give back anything out of gratitude. I simply thought that you should stay in this position, since you are capable enough and your conduct is to my liking. If you really want to pay me back, just kill a few more of those Wen-dogs on the battlefield!”'

'After [Meng Yao] left [for Langya], Nie MingJue switched to another deputy. Wei WuXian, however, felt that the new one was always a few beats slower. Meng Yao was an unusually clever talent. He could understand what wasn’t said, and perform to the best with the simplest orders. He was efficient and never slacked. Anyone used to him wouldn’t be able to refrain from comparing him with others.'

'Nie MingJue was never close to people. He rarely opened up to anyone. Though he finally managed to obtain a competent, trustworthy subordinate, whose character and capabilities he approved, he found that the subordinate’s true colors were nothing like what he had thought they were. It was only natural that his reaction was so extreme.'

'Wei WuXian had once found it strange as well. Ever since Meng Yao betrayed the QingheNie Sect, the relationship between Nie MingJue and him hadn’t been the same as before. Then why did they later become sworn brothers? From his observations, aside from how Lan XiChen brought it up, having always hoped that the two would reconcile, the most important factor was probably the gratitude of saving his life and writing the letters. To be precise, in his past battles, he had more-or-less depended on the information that Meng Yao sent over through Lan XiChen. He still thought that Jin GuangYao was a talented person whom one would rarely come upon, and intended on leading him back onto the right path. However, Jin GuangYao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang.'

Jin GuangYao spoke with dejection, “But, Brother, didn’t you hear what he said in the oath? Every sentence meant something more. ‘Face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb’—this was clearly a warning for me. I… I’ve never heard of such an oath before.”

Lan XiChen replied in a gentle voice, “He said ‘if one were to think otherwise’. Do you think otherwise? If not, then why should you worry over it so much?"

Jin GuangYao, “I don’t, but Brother has already decided that I do, so what can I do?”

Lan XiChen, “He has always cherished your talent, hoping that you would choose the right path.”

You might notice a recurring theme here: there's a lot of focus JGY's competence and conduct. But anything about who JGY is as a person? Not so much.

They clearly had a good superior/subordinate relationship going on, albeit one in which NMJ was missing a lot of context (see just behave well and show people up, plus the you're missing a solid foundation thing). But it does seem to be basically professional. WWX describes them as conversing "peaceably, even impressively" in contrast to "his future self, always being scolded by Nie MingJue" and "those jokes of how 'LianFang-Zun fled whenever he heard that ChiFeng-Zun arrived,'" and.... that's kind of it. The closest we get to them as friends is them talking together with LXC after NMJ tells MY he will give him a letter of recommendation and send him to his father; as WWX describes it, "The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so."

That's definitely not nothing! But it's also the most we ever get, only shows up the once, and is explicitly contrasted with their conversation from earlier. Moreover, I'm pretty sure LXC's presence is a necessary part of things; NMJ tends to respond differently to LXC than to other people (even just earlier in this chapter, we're told that while "Nie MingJue had never been one for humour," "in front of Lan XiChen his expression eased"), and WWX explicitly notes LXC's conversation skills in the context of this conversation: "At this point in time, their relationship really isn't bad. Zewu-Jun is actually quite good at holding conversations, so why is Lan Zhan so bad at it?"

In addition, I'd say that looking at the early part of that conversation is quite telling; while LXC and MY are sitting together as equals, MY stand up at once the moment NMJ interrupts, and doesn't sit even after NMJ tells him to do so (I think he probably does take a seat at some point, but the narrative doesn't actually tell us when). Moreover, MY seems to be worried that NMJ will be offended by a possible lack of gratitude on MY's part ("Sect Leader Nie, if you heard everything, then you should've also heard me say that..."), and the only objection he expresses to leaving is precisely that he owes NMJ a debt of gratitude, not anything to do with, like, missing him. To me all the evidence suggests that while they had a close relationship, it was not a /personal/ relationship, but fundamentally one of superior and subordinate.

(For a close read of the scene where NMJ, LXC and MY are talking together, I highly recommend @confusion-and-more's post here)

Moving on, let's look at after JGY becomes JGY. They don't seem to particularly spend time together with each other, certainly not for the sake of it. There's a brief moment at the Flower Banquet where NMJ asks JGY why he's wasting his time with XY (who has not at this point in time committed his crime, he just has a reputation), but after JGY makes his excuse and scurries away, NMJ turns away and doesn't seem to seek him out or even pay him any particular attention for the rest of the scene; he only shows up once more, and that's following WWX. (And although JGY-as-replacement-NHS would be a post all on its own, I do think it's interesting to note that the exchange about XY is immediately followed by LXC and LWJ coming over, described in a way that highlights both their impressiveness and their status at brothers—their Twin Jade-ness, one might say.) During the guqin scene, NMJ only speaks once, and it's to address LXC—to protest the inappropriateness of LXC leaking exclusive Lan techniques. When JGY shows up to play the guqin for him the first time, NMJ asks JGY "what did you come here for," which suggests that NMJ is not generally expecting JGY to come by without a specific, concrete reason. The closest they ever seem to get after JGY becomes JGY is during these guqin-playing sessions, and as WWX describes it, "when playing the guqin, the way that the two conversed and got along even had a hint of the peace they had before they fell out"—which is certainly better than there being no peace at all, but which I think suggests there's still at least some tension, given that it's only a "hint."

Now, NMJ certainly cares about JGY, both in the sense of desiring his well-being, at first, and absolutely in the sense of being emotionally invested in him—even after his death, as a fierce corpse his only desire is to kill Jin Guangyao. But while they had a close superior-subordinate relationship—certainly NMJ seems to have felt close to MY—at no point was it a close personal relationship, and I don't think that NMJ even liked JGY (or MY, I'm using the name expansively) as a person, let alone was in love with him.

But mostly so far I've been focusing in NMJ's feelings. What about JGY? Is /he/ in love with NMJ?

Once again, I just don't read him that way. This isn't to say he didn't care for NMJ—he absolutely did! He goes to quite significant lengths to save his life from WRH in the Sun Palace, including quite a lot of risk to MY himself—I analyze that in a lot more depth in the first part of my post here, if you're interested, though I will also note now that he specifically sent for LXC to help NMJ. (You'll have to scroll down some; I'm responding to someone else's post.) Afterwards, he kneels to NMJ and apologizes, I think sincerely, for hurting him and for invoking his pain about his father's death. He certainly conceives of himself as owing a debt of gratitude to NMJ for recognizing him, and he's so overcome when NMJ offers to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation, saying that he didn't promote MY so that MY would owe him, that he quite remarkably can't even find words. NMJ meant a lot to him, and so did NMJ's not defining him in terms of his birth—until he did, of course, at the stairs kick incident. But as far as I can tell, there's nothing to suggest he has /romantic feelings/ for NMJ, and frankly—how can I put this—it does not at all surprise me that JGY isn't in love with someone with a violent temper who is noted at least twice to react to people explaining themselves when he is angry with even more anger, and that's even without the thing where he nearly killed JGY on multiple occasions and called him the son of a prostitute.

No, I think JGY's emotional journey with NMJ goes through three stages: first, he's deeply grateful to him and respects him a great deal, although he's also aware of NMJ's lack of awareness of certain social realities (see: the teacup scene, NMJ yelling at the other Nie cultivators about their treatment of MY and telling MY not to worry as long as his conduct is upright); second, after Sun Palace, still gratitude and respect but also a mounting frustration with his lack of awareness of the implications of JGY's social position and his hypocrisy re: acceptable violence; finally, after the stairs kick when NMJ kicks him down the stairs, almost kills him, and tells him what else can be expected from the son of a prostitute, he is completely done with NMJ, but is still very much scared of him. The gratitude, I've discussed; the frustration, I think is fairly obvious in the speech he gives back to NMJ at the stairs. But I think the fear is often undervalued, so I'm going to pull a bunch of quotes again:

Meng Yao shrunk immediately after his previous outburst. Watching Baxia slash toward him, he sprinted off at once, scared lifeless. Of the two, one striked with madness and the other fled with madness. Both staggered, still soaked in blood. In such amusing circumstances, as Wei WuXian chopped at the future Chief Cultivator, in his heart he split his sides laughing. He thought that if not for how Nie MingJue was under heavy injuries and lacked spiritual power, Meng Yao would probably have been dead already.

Baxia’s strikes were so menacing that Shuoyue had to unsheath. Lan XiChen stopped him, half to support his figure and half to block his attacks, “MingJue-xiong, calm down! Why bother?”

Nie MingJue, “Why don’t you ask what he did?!”

Lan XiChen turned around to look at Meng Yao, his face was full of terror. He stammered as if he didn’t dare speak.

Nie MingJue remained silent, while Baxia and Shuoyue continued. Meng Yao took a glimpse at the glares from the clashes of the saber and the sword, his gaze full of fear. After a while, however, he still took a step forward. He kneeled to Nie MingJue.

A moment later, Nie MingJue still raised his saber. Lan XiChen, “MingJue-xiong!”

Meng Yao shut his eyes. Lan XiChen also tightened his grip on Shuoyue, “Please excuse…”

Before he could finish his sentence, the silver light of the blade slashed down violently, onto a boulder on the side.

Meng Yao flinched from the thunder of the boulder splitting apart. Looking over, he saw that it had been sliced into two halves, from the top to the bottom.

Jin GuangYao nodded. Xue Yang had been infamous ever since he was young. Wei WuXian clearly felt Nie MingJue’s brows knit even tighter. He spoke, “Why are you wasting your time with such a person?”

Jin GuangYao, “The LanlingJin Sect recruited him.”

He didn’t dare to protest any further. Excuse being that he needed to care for the guests, he scurried to the other side.

[part of his speech to NMJ at the stairs] You think that I should be afraid of nothing? Well I'm afraid of everything, even other people!

Within the temple, three people called Nie MingJue’s corpse ‘Brother’ but the three tones were drastically different. Jin GuangYao’s face was full of a drowning fear. His entire body began to shiver. No matter dead or alive, the person Jin GuangYao was most scared of was none but this sworn brother of his whose temper tolerated no evil. As his body shivered, his hands shivered as well, and the bloody guqin string he clutched tightly in his hand also began to shiver.

Clenching his teeth, Jin GuangYao struck a few acupoints of his arm. Amidst the dizziness that came from a loss of blood, he suddenly saw Nie MingJue walk a step towards him, his eyes locked on him. He was immediately half-dead with fear.

Collapsed beside Lan XiChen, Jin GuangYao saw this scene as well. Whether because the bleeding and the pain intensified at his arm and stomach or from some other reason, the glisten of tears could be seen in his eyes. But before he had a chance to catch his breath or lick his wounds, Nie MingJue turned around after he pulled his fist back and stared hungrily in his direction.

The harsh, stern expression on his rigid face held a sense of judgement that was no different from before he died. Even his tears had been scared away as Jin GuangYao turned to Lan XiChen for help, his voice trembling, “Brother…”

I think the stuff with, you know, handling NMJ's fierce corpse and hanging onto his head is often viewed as evidence of JGY's continued emotional investment in NMJ, but... I don't really think so? First of all, NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY. I'll spare you another round of quotes on that because this is already ridiculously long and because it's not at all subtle—it's all over the temple chapters, take a look! And second of all—well, there's ways of getting information from a corpse. In this case, NMJ's resentful energy is so strong that without the protection of his body, papernan WWX is actually sucked into NMJ's memories against his will! Sure, maybe no one would risk it, and maybe no one who risked it would survive, but especially given that NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY, that's a heck of a risk to take. And look at the description of the protections around NMJ's head:

Suddenly, Wei WuXian noticed that one of the shelves were blocked by a curtain. The curtain was covered in sinister, blood-red runes. It was a talisman of forbiddance, one of extreme power.

Jin GuangYao walked over and lifted the curtain.

For a split second, Wei WuXian thought that he had been exposed. After the faint firelight made its way through the curtain, he found that he was enveloped in a shadow. A circular object just happened to be in front of him.

Jin GuangYao stood still, as though he was staring into the eyes of whatever was inside this shelf.

After a moment, he spoke, “Were you the one looking at me?"

Of course, there couldn’t be any response. He was silent for a while, then let down the curtain.

Wei WuXian quietly attached himself to the object. Cold and hard, it seemed to be a helmet. He then turned to the front. As he had expected, he saw a pallid face. The one who sealed the head wanted it to see nothing, hear nothing, speak nothing, and so incantations had been crowded onto the waxen skin. The eyes, the ears, and the mouth were all sealed tightly shut.

There's containment, it's suppressed to all hell and back, and JGY quite justifiably expects it to be murderously obsessed with him, but to me it doesn't suggest a reciprocal obsession—just more fear.

I'll also note that as a strategy for containing the information about his own involvement it's a very successful operation! It failed in the end /eventually/, but the failure needed:

someone who could successfully break into his private treasure room and escape without being caught

who could also perform Empathy or a similar tecnnique on NMJ's head and survive it

who could successfully recreate from memory the altered Empathy song

whom LXC would be willing to listen to

That's a heck of a tall order!

As to being done with NMJ after the stairs, well, listen to what he says to LXC:

Jin GuangYao spoke with dejection, “But, Brother, didn’t you hear what he said in the oath? Every sentence meant something more. ‘Face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb’—this was clearly a warning for me. I… I’ve never heard of such an oath before.”

[...]

Jin GuangYao, “It’s not that I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong, but that sometimes I really can’t help. Nowadays, I have it bad no matter which side I’m on. I have to ensure that I’m on everyone’s good sides. I wouldn’t care if it were someone else, but have I mistreated our eldest brother in any way? Brother, you heard as well. What did he call me?”

[...]

Jin GuangYao was almost sobbing, “If he could say such a thing when he was angry, then just how does he think of me on a daily basis? Is it that because I couldn’t choose my background, because my mother couldn’t choose her fate, I’ll have to be humiliated by others throughout my whole life? If so, then how is Brother different from the people who look down on me? No matter what I do, in the end, just a sentence and I’m ‘the son of a prostitute’.”

And then of course there's what he says to LXC, in his speech to him at the end: "You, on the other hand, ZeWu-Jun, Sect Leader Lan, are as intolerant of me as Nie MingJue—you refuse to spare me even a single breath of life!"

So—wow, this got very long—I don't ship them, and although I think they have very much mattered emotionally to each other, I don't really see them as ever having been in love with or attracted to each other.

A couple of end notes:

In MDZS, NMJ isn't the first (non-MS) person who recognizes MY's worth, although he is the first person to promote him; by the time NMJ promotes MY MY has already met, rescued, and exchanged intimate confidences with LXC, who respects him greatly and thinks he is highly talented (see again the conversation in Hejian which NMJ overhears/eavedrops on).

I've seen people talk about them not understanding each other, but while NMJ certainly doesn't understand JGY, it's not at all obvious that the reverse is true; he generally seems to understand him pretty well. I think he has two surprises overall: first, that he wasn't expecting NMJ to say he didn't promote MY so MY would owe him, and volunteer to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation—and second, he wasn't expecting NMJ, who for all his flaws did seem to ignore JGY's background in good ways as well as bad, to call him the son of a prostitute.

I definitely don't read the coffin at the end as romantic. Or I mean, uh, there's the romance of an obsessive stalker-murderer finally getting his victim, and that's not nothing (unironically; look, I'm a Hannibal fan), but I don't think it's usually what people mean. This is a shitty end for JGY, part of how thoroughly he loses and is destroyed. I think to some extent it might be that he doesn't want LXC to be the one who killed him, and to some extent it's an act of defiance—now that he has nothing to lose, not even his life, he's going to go out fighting. I would expand on this but this post is ridiculously long and I have way too many quotes, maybe I'll do it in a separate post later on—but if you look at the description of it in the text, plus the subsequent description of it in the coffin...yeah. JGY didn't want to die, he didn't want to be engaged in a mutually destructive thing with NMJ; he wanted to leave NMJ behind in the past, and move on. It's not, for him any kind of fulfillment, is my read.

All quotes are taken from the Exiled Rebels translation: ch 48-50 for everything about NMJ and JGY's past relationship, ch. 47 for the description of JGY's containment measures for NMJ's head, and ch. 106-108 for the quotes about JGY's fear of NMJ's fierce corpse. The description of JGY going into the coffin is at the end of 108 if you want to have a look, and there's more in 109 and 110 about the difficulty of sealing NMJ's fierce corpse/its power and violence.