#but i don't feel like it could've been destroyed when for example its the origin of the term cell in a microbiological context

[autisticblueteam]

I'm sure someone in the tags has made this connection already, but I'm pretty much certain that the enaction of the 'Protocol' on London is a reference to the Great Fire of London from 1666.

The Micrographia that Robert Hooke mentions was research the very real guy collated in 1665, the year before the fire and also the year of a the Great Plague of London. There's a myth/outdated understanding that the Great Fire drove out the rats causing the plague and stopped it.

Sounds like in the Protocol universe the fire was deliberate as an attempt to drive the 'Dread emission' out of the city, as well as whatever knowledge was destroyed in the process.

[sunnykeysmash]

ok so I have marinated the four episodes in my brain (plus the previous season) and I think I have some scattered thoughts I'd like to put on record when it comes to what's happening and the very general direction of things

first of all, very happy to see I was right about season 14 fixing mac and dennis' dynamic, and very excited to see why that is, if just to disrupt them again, or to make them closer than they've ever been, romantically

now, lately I was thinking about the general themes in the last seasons of things leaving and eventually coming back, missing them, and so on, I think we're all familiar with it (dennis leaving, "they leave but they all come back", a lot of episodes from season 14 like chop, thundergun, chokes, texts, are at heart about missing something when it's gone)

and I think this still ties with what I have seen so far of season 15. the gang is tired, they'd like to try something different, they are in the mood for pageantry and the general mood of paddy's is just depressing to them. where s15 differs from the previous seasons is they're not resisting change but seeking it out. they're nostalgic for their idealized past (we'll get to that), and the present and what they have built in 23 years with the bar doesn't quite compare

if you've followed me thus far you'll know that I believe most episodes of sunny in recent seasons can be read in layers and usually they're not just surface level in the way they explore things. and I personally think the Roller Rink episode falls under that

so the episode itself isn't much about their past or their origin story or anything, it is still about identity.

in that way, the gang acting uncharacteristically and unlike themselves is a diversion done on purpose.

Paddy's in many, many episodes is a stand-in for the show itself (wins an award, jumper, to name some), and I think the same is happening in season 15, with episode 3 being the most obvious example of it (though minor examples being charlie wanting to fire fireworks inside it risking burning it down, maybe to symbolize on rcg's behalf a celebration so uncharacteristic of them that it destroys everything they've built, or in episode four where it's discussed that a group of monkeys could run their bar, maybe to symbolize them growing so complacent in their "algorithmical" way of writing that it almost feels like their input is no longer necessary?)

that said, the roller rink, being the establishment they originally wanted to purchase instead of the bar, works for me the same way other bars worked in Wins an Award, it's a look at how different the show could've been, how unlike themselves. and this season is all about figuring out what makes them, them, just how far they can push that. the most recent clip about mac finding out his dad's last name is fake really just cemented that more in my eyes. they are looking for a sense of identity, we have that much figured out

which brings me to my next point, and this is something I took from the Roller Rink episode but also from all I have discussed so far in general, and that is that ultimately, too much change makes you so unrecognizable that you lose yourself. so in a way, season 15 is about figuring out that healthy middle ground where you can reinvent yourself without losing yourself

I think by straying SO far away from their normal, they will come to eventually miss what they had all along, possibly remember it fondly quite like they did for the Roller Rink, a view maybe a little too idealized than what is real, but overall, reevaluating what they had dismissed before.

not being thrust into purchasing the bar bur wishing for something else, but actively choosing the bar, choosing to stay, and maybe make changes to what you already have, that don't denature its core but still make it something new and exciting. a change that in many ways feels like improving what you already had, building on your foundations rather than tearing them all down

as for how that might impact mac and dennis, well, dennis already did this. sort of. it's not 100% clear, but when he came back from North Dakota, in a way he chose to stay with the gang, with mac, though maybe it wasn't entirely a choice motivated by the right sentiment, maybe at the time it felt forced on him.

well, that doesn't matter, because I still think they will all have to make choices that redefine who they are, in the terms that I talked about.

if mac and dennis did get together in this season, it would be because they made a choice to. mac choosing dennis over his religion, dennis choosing to be himself instead of a fake persona like that of brian (with everything that entails, giving up being brian because that is not who he is).

if you were to ask me if I think mac would choose dennis over his religion... well, that is tough to say, although what comes to mind here is that "he's the only one who could!" ad for s13 (which again, echoes what happens in s13ep1, it's not just some ad). I discussed this already, mac talks about how "god is the only man that can fill him up", and we already know this to not be true.

Not to mention all the god symbolism that's already attached to dennis. Not to lean in too deeply on my old classic theory/analysis about brian vs dennis, death vs love, but what I'm thinking is going to happen here is a resurrection metaphor, much like that of Jesus, which I think would make perfect sense for dennis. It explains why his fever lasts three episodes (three days), and then he metaphorically "dies" in the hospital, and raises again as his true self.

I don't know if this'll really happen, but it's what I feel like is a good guess based on the elements I've got, so I just wanted to share.

Tl;Dr:

(credit to @cutemeat for showing this picture to me and giving me brainworms)

And wait, I was gonna post this as is, but I also would like to add that this choice business is not gonna be limited to mac and dennis in my opinion, it's likely to me charlie will choose frank (regardless of paternity status), frank might choose (or accept) his role as the paternal figure of the gang, dee... yeah, I'm not really sure about her. She is tough. But ultimately she could also choose the bar over her acting career, or she could choose to become a writer, since she's been writing her own material all this time, so probably it was never about just acting for her. And acting could be used as a more general metaphor for being inauthentic anyway, so it could make sense to drop it.

But I don't know, it's just a guess.

Either way, let me know what you think! And sorry about no read more again, I'm writing from my phone.

[bthump]

That last ask and your response about how Griffith could've been someone else and still had a very similar effect on Guts makes me a little sad—especially because it seems well-thought out and relatively likely. That + the way Guts seems to not be able to receive and understand Griffith's actions for what they are (things like him not grasping that Griffith specifically requesting instead of ordering him to kill means something) just is :( Not that it doesn't make sense given the way Guts life has been and his trauma, but it just makes it more painful Griffith came to the conclusion Guts really does despise him. I don't know :'( Griffith chose Guts and all...

Linking the original post for context.

Yeah it's a pretty depressing idea tbh. Though to be fair I don't think that like, Guts initially responding to Griffith's interest in him and general sense of commanding power and charisma, rather than something inherent to Griffith as a person, means that their relationship is one-sided or anything.

Guts definitely comes to love Griffith for Griffith as he gets to know him properly. Like the waterfight scene - it's basically the first time Guts played with someone his own age and got to act like a kid, and I have no doubt that had a huge effect on his feelings towards Griffith.

And it's pretty fitting thematically that Guts starts out like, drawn to Griffith's surface image, what he represents to him as an authority figure, then begins to connect with him in a real genuine way over their three years together, but then loses that and is pulled back to seeing only the surface image after the Promrose Hall speech. It's basically Guts' fatal flaw that causes the whole Golden Age tragedy - the way he's too prone to pedestalize Griffith and see him more as a symbolic figure to live up to than as a flawed human, thanks to his abusive childhood.

And it makes the three years where they just hung out and enjoyed each others' company as people more significant too. It makes Guts dumping a bucket of water on his head, or saying fuck propriety and trying to body his way past guards to visit Griffith on his sickbed, or just riding side by side away from a battle together, all that more impactful, because it shows Guts' potential to heal from his childhood and grow into an emotionally healthier person, as well as Griffith's potential and desire to connect with someone as an equal, someone who sees him as a real person rather than a knight in shining armour.

But yeah ultimately that big flaw of Guts failing to engage with Griffith as a fellow human in favour of seeing him as a god does keep rearing its head, and it's especially sad for Griffith considering that's like, the major issue he contends with when it comes to his every other relationship, friend and enemy. It's sad as hell to see Guts falling into the same niche Gennon fell into, for example.

Guts is different to him, Guts gained a strong hold on him, but ultimately his devotion to his dream and the way he clings to his own false image of himself (ie everything Guts saw during the Promrose speech) ensured that Guts would once agan view him the same way everyone else views him, which is why Guts leaves and he destroys everything, which is so satisfyingly ironic and tragic.

At the very end right before the Eclipse, Griffith actually overhears Casca bringing up Promrose Hall and Guts wanting to be his friend and equal when she tells him to leave again. And I think that like... it's really interesting that despite now knowing Guts admires him and doesn't hate him, the Eclipse still happens.

And imo it's because it makes no difference whether Guts loves him or hates him when he doesn't really see him as a person but only a symbol, just like everyone else.

(Of course by that point Guts did see him as a person again, but that's the part Griffith doesn't know.)

Thanks for the ask! You got me thinking about this more in-depth and I'm glad I got a chance to expand on this idea.

[yoshimickster]

OK, your last post in regards to mine I agree with COMPLETELY. I don't think what happened with Charmcaster is as much of a travesty as you did and I like it overall, BUT I also agree that it could have been much better, and even moreso that Omniverse itself could have been much better. It had some high points and was overall better than Ultimate Alien, but man did it waste the potential of what it could've been, and I vastly prefer the reboot to it.

Thank you, glad we agree. My major belief in why everything after Alien Force felt off was the constant changing of the guard in terms of writers, at one point it stopped feeling like a true cohesive narrative and just became a bunch of stuff that happened. And yes, sadly part of this is due to the great Dwayne McDuffie’s death, its nigh-impossible to create a truly solid series with the absence of your main show-runner(I say nigh, as John K of Ren and Stimpy’s absence oddly enough HELPED the show because he sucked). 

Omniverse tried its best to be both a stand alone AND sequel series at the same time, but it just felt off in multiple ways. Its like as much as I LOVED the crazy twist of Osmosians being mutant humans…was it really needed, outside of explaining how humans and aliens could create children? There in-lies what I call the Midichlorian paradox, where in giving a proper scientific explanation to a non-scientific occurrence in fiction, you can take away weight from the story. The worst example was when Kevin killed who he THOUGHT killed his father, but it TURNED OUT-his Osmosian plumber father never existed so there was NO point to that episode! There was no saving this confusing narrative, the only way was to start anew and I feel we can agree the reboot is doing that finely.

EDIT: Oh yeah, also how Ben hit the self-destruct on the original Omnitrix and it DIDN’T destroy the universe like the OG series said it would, making the entire conflict of said movie pointless. Its like, WHY?!