#but femmes are just as gnc as butches too

[blood-choke]

Thanks for saying the bit about butch being identity more than presentation. I'm aware it is, like I'm not dumb, but I never feel like I show the fact that I'm butch enough, even if I'm soft butch. Like wearing androgynous clothes means fuck all in modern day since women's fashion is androgynous at a base line currently, plus I have very long hair and tend to keep my nails somewhat long so my identity doesn't show at all and it makes me constantly feel like I'm appropriating the label. But like if I were cis, I'd probably take testosterone for a bit like she/her Lea did; that idea is super enticing. As is I like being trans because it gives some masculinity to my physicality. If it were the past where women wore dresses, I'd definitely wear men's clothes (probably mixed with some parts of women's stuff). Just modern day doesn't let me visibly defy social norms as much as I want. My leather jacket and boots just isn't enough to show my identity.

Sorry for the ranble. Just made me feel way better, seeing confirmation that it's largely identity. Even if I don't have anyone to truly express it with.

you're welcome!

it was definitely something i had to unlearn; especially now with so much of lesbian bar culture having been pushed out and forgotten, a lot of younger people just.. don't know what these words mean, and when i was their age, butch and lesbian both were Bad Words that you never said at all except to demean someone.

reading older lesbian literature helped me overcome that and learning about all of the people that came before us; both about butches and femmes. digging through archives and putting myself into butch/femme spaces online has been hugely beneficial to me. i used to feel the same & like i could never "claim the label" because i didn't look a certain way, but that's just simply not true.

and this is especially not true for lesbians and other women who are already having other labels forced upon them by society; for not being white, for not being skinny, for not being hyper feminine, for not being cis, etc.

one of the things that made it really click for me was picture archives, specifically these kinds of pictures:

(pride, nyc, 1977 by meryl meisler)

this one is nancy tucker & her partner, and the two of them would switch shirts throughout the march. (1970 by kay tobin lahusen)

you can see how similar butches and femmes can look, and this is also what i mean when i say femmes are just as sanitized in popular media. butch and femme can be adjectives, but they are also nouns, they are genders and they are roles that people fill within lesbian relationships and within their community; how they move through the world, interact with society and how they interact with other lesbians and other women romantically and sexually.

this quote is one of my favorites:

“Butch is a trickster gender—and so, in a similar way, is femme. Lesbian gender expressions do not emulate heteropatriarchy, they subvert it. Femme removes femininity from the discursive shadow of masculinity and thereby strips from it any connotation of subordination or inferiority. Butch takes markers of “masculinity” and divests them of their association with maleness or manhood. Butchness works against the gender binary—the masculine/feminine paradigm—and reclaims for women the full breadth of possibilities when it comes to gender expression.”

— Caroline Narby, “On My Butchness”

[dilovortexx]

yall ever just project so hard on a comfort character ship you go "yeah theyre t4t now"

yeah.. good times

anyways gohan and videl are t4t and in this essay i will

[scarlettfevor]

I think that it's really sad how lesbians really have no role models in Hollywood or in the music industry to look up to, it's even worse because like I said before every since the entire gay community was labeled as queer straight people have starting opting into our community. I think that the reason why everything is so fucked up is because straight women started calling themselves bi, and bi women realized this and started calling themselves lesbians to overcompensate for the attraction that straight women in their communities had erased. Which is why so many famous "lesbians" are actually bi (chapel ranch, renee rapp, kehlani) and it doesn't help that they're spreading this harmful rhetoric of being lesbian "now" as if they decided to dedicate the first half of their career to men they dated for years or get pregnant by a man and *then* decide to become a lesbian, and parading these facts about publically only further making it seem like lesbians have to fight our non-existant attraction to men or are only lesbians because we don't want to date men. Pretty much all the famous out gay women are bi. If you had told middle school me that so many women were publically talking about their attraction to other women, I would've been overjoyed, but as I said earlier, not only are most of them bi but they spread harm to lesbians. The last popular lesbian celebrity I know is Haley Kiyoko and people always made fun of her when at the time, and even now she's basically the only out lesbian in the industry. And it's clear that the only reason why she gets made fun of is because she is kind of a GNC lesbian.

[cockyroaches]

Had the deranged thought of 'you know being gay should count as gender nonconforming since gender roles expect you to be het by default' but then I remembered how vile some gender conforming gay people are to gnc queers and yeah, no. You dont get that.

[phagodyke]

actually ive been thinking abt this a lot lately like basically for years i assumed i was very (cis)het passing and only recently ive become aware that i am in fact. very obviously perhaps almost comically gay to other queer ppl. like lmaoooo ok then

[genderqueerdykes]

if you genuinely believe that trans men and cis men are enemies and need to be pitted against each other: you drank the terf juice.

if you believe that pre transition or never transition transfems "look too threatening" or "too cishet" or "unsafe for other queers to be around": you drank the terf juice.

if you misgender butch trans women and multigender transfem lesbians and remove them from lesbian spaces: you drank the terf juice.

if you police transfems and call them "loud," "aggressive," "mean," or "rude," just because they have deep voices or high testosterone bodies: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe that all men and mascs need to be barred from entry into non binary, lesbian, and other queer spaces: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe all cishet men are inherently queerphobic, evil, and dangerous to be around: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe trans and cis men are inherently violent and dangerous because they're men: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe that cis-passing trans men aren't queer and/or don't belong in queer spaces because they look and sound "too cis" or 'threatening': you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe that anyone who is AMAB and/or has a penis is inherently violent: you drank the terf juice.

if you genuinely believe it's okay to profile strangers to assume they're cis or het (or ANYTHING): you drank the terf juice.

literally ALL of these things are terf ideologies and actions. in order to accept ourselves and be accepted, we must accept that just like how our identities are not inherently violent- neither are cis and het folks'.

blaming cis mens' gender instead of their actions and behaviors for their dangerous and queerphobic actions removes the responsibility from the individual man. that was one man who did something wrong.

hold that individual person accountable for their actions and leave their gender and/or birth sex out of it- they're irrelevant to the situation.

making trans women, intersex trans women, transfems, nonbinary people, genderqueer people, etc. uncomfortable by policing how they look and sound is not the way to go. policing transfems and preventing them from queer spaces is not the way to go. policing trans men and mascs and preventing them from entering spaces they belong in is not the way to go.

excluding queer men and mascs from the communities they rightfully belong in isn't helping anyone. cis gay men need community. cis asexual men need community. cis aromantic men need community. cis polyamorous men need community. genderqueer, non binary, and gnc cis men need community. cis bisexual/mspec men need community. trans women who are also men need community. trans men need community. intersex men need community. the list goes on.

community means working together, not fragmenting ourselves off into the tiniest micro pockets imaginable for the sake of "Safety". running afraid from every. single. man and masc you encounter will not keep you safe- femmes and women are capable of abuse. we cannot fall into this "woman good man bad" trap. being afraid of a group of people wholesale doesn't help you heal from whatever trauma you have. it's going to keep you scared for the rest of your life. it's best to move on and stop judging strangers for features they can't help or didn't ask for.

[mswyrr]

Rhaenyra has a type when it comes to women

The common thread for me between Rhaenyra's desire for Alicent and Mysaria is that both women play the role of "lady wife" (or we could call it the role of "the beloved" to a lover) to her. I went into this as it relates to her loving Alicent in a prior meta. But here I want to focus on what they have in common that seems to compel Rhaenyra.

Between the two of them, we have a portrait now of what her "type" is in women. She likes a femme woman who is intelligent and capable of advising her, who cares about her goals and standing in the realm and who she can trust to act on her behalf, a woman who recognizes and basks in the love of Rhaenyra's desire to be knightly and noble and act as a monarch - to hold power and use it to act and protect and cherish. A woman who wishes to be caring and affectionate with her, who shares her body in acts of erotic intimacy as well as comfort and tenderness - young Rhaenyra really meant it when she told Alicent that she loved lying with her head on Alicent's lap as Alicent read to her in shared moments of peace and tranquility. She leaned into to Alicent's touch; she casually held her hand or touched her or stared at Alicent like she was the whole world; she grounded herself with her girl's love.

Mature Rhaenyra awakens at the way Mysaria appreciates her; tells her she's noble and worthy. Tells her she looks good with a sword, expressing those knightly/butch or masc leanings Rhaenyra had in her youth and never got the chance to explore. When Mysaria tells her that, in a lifetime of learning not to trust the world because it has been so cruel to her, Rhaenyra is a rare person she trusts and believes in - a safe haven, a heroic figure, Rhaenyra moves quickly to hug her and keeps hugging her, her urgency to connect growing more intense, fingers digging into her flesh in need, and strokes her cheek across Mysaria's skin like she's found an oasis in the desert.

I relate to that; I feel that way about women too. While watching the way Rhaenyra just *blossoms* under Mysaria's admiration and appreciation I felt teary eyed - Rhaenyra has been starved of recognition and love of whole parts of herself since she lost Alicent. It's terribly sad. It's also why she seems so painfully young in the Sept scene and so thirsty but also vulnerable and emotionally naked with Mysaria - the parts of her that are open to women have never gotten to be satisfied, to grow and come of age.

I consider the feelings in myself Rhaenyra's behavior speaks to toppy and gnc, because I am a gnc female top, but Rhaenyra is a switch and hasn't had a chance to explore gender/sexuality much at all and doesn't have language for it so I'm not sure what labels she'd decide upon if she had the opportunity to relax and enjoy herself and her partner(s). From the text we have, there's many different potential readings of Rhaenyra's complex gender AND sexuality feelings. Is Rhaenyra masc and if so in what way? Bi with a split attraction that actually leans to women or 50/50? 50/50 switch or leaning top or bottom or differently with different genders of partner or different partners? Monogamous or polyamorous?

None of these possibilities have been foreclosed, all have been rather more opened up. Much to the consternation of the bigots who are review bombing the episode!! And the antis in fandom who have harassed artists for drawing masc Rhaenyra and shamed and degraded Rhaenicent for years now.

I think that's a good thing, since LGBTQ lead character representation on a big show like this is so rare. It also is in character for the setting and world Rhaenyra lives in: there's simply little opportunity to explore, sadly. But, at the same time, it's great that so many people can connect to Rhaenyra - can feel that sense of kinship I got to feel watching on Sunday. It's great that Emma and Sonoya had the courage and love to come together to make this happen - so this part of Rhaenyra can have a little more time to live and breathe and we can appreciate it.

I am not certain of one gender/sexuality reading of the character, though of course I have my preferences. The one thing I am certain of now, though, is Rhaenyra's (main or possibly only?) type in women. And I think it's pretty gorgeous. I think the way she loves women is breathtaking and achingly beautiful. I relate to it and it makes the tragedy even more poignant to me that her society denies her the opportunity to have a lifetime with the kind of woman who draws on her heart so powerfully.

[farmerlesbian]

my suspicion is that it comes from not actually knowing and especially interacting with other dykes IRL :/

i also want to talk about eventually the like.. recent tendency online to lean really hard into binary labels like top-bottom, butch-femme, masc-fem(me). maybe someone more eloquent than me can talk about it haha!

basically what i feel is that people are lonely, and desperate for connection, and horny. we see people talking about and praising these categories (this is particularly in regards to butch and femme), which for a long time have been very overdue for recognition, understanding, respect, positivity, and appreciation, so this is very warranted attention. people want to talk about their desires, and especially people want to BE desired. there's also the mythologizing of eras of the past and wanting to recreate them. there's the desire to talk about and post fantasies, whether here on tumblr, or writing fanfiction or erotica, or posting on lex or dating sites. to say what you are, or to say what/who you are seeking requires a succinct word and label. so of course people lean into the butch-femme, even when it doesn't really fit.

(and this is then taking us right back to the situation where people complain that these roles are forced and oppressive! which is entirely not the point! and also a whole other conversation)

also i want people to know that I'm not butch nor femme. i genuinely am not! and i'm a switch and a verse! i lean certain ways and go through phases but truly really i am not any of these labels, I'm just .. i guess .. me 😐 for lack of a better way to phrase it haha! and i'm still hot, and desired, and i fit in and quite noticeable and certainly GNC. and you can be too. and tbh i think it is very common and typical for dykes / wlws / sapphics / lesbians / bi and pan girls n women n ladies to be neither butch or femme as well.

[deconstructthesoup]

Since I've seen a lot of people do it, here's my sexuality, gender, and gender presentation headcanons for the Voices and Vessels:

Voices

Hero: Bisexual, he/him, cis but is probably a little bit gnc---he's trying on earrings, he's started to paint his nails and wear makeup, maybe he'll buy a skirt soon. He seems like a guy who's only recently come out of the closet and is a bit nervous about doing things right.

Contrarian: Gay, he/they, demiboy and hella gnc... in the sense that none of their outfits make any cohesive sense, and are an absolute mess of patterns and styles. His little-shit energy extends to his gender expression.

Cheated: Pansexual, he/him, trans. He's a simple jeans-and-t-shirts kinda guy, though I think he'd also wear leather jackets purely for the extra protection.

Stubborn: Gay, he/him, cis. Maybe "bear" isn't quite the right word, but he definitely comes from the Elliot Spencer school of masculinity. Big buff guy with long hair who can and will kick the shit out of you but is also a protective soul.

Broken: Bisexual, he/him... questioning his gender, but he doesn't focus much on it. He's in the "I only wear sweatpants and hoodies because I have no energy to do anything else" stage.

Cold: Gay, he/him, definitely genderqueer and only really uses "he" because it's easier. Google "mall goth" and you get a picture of him.

Paranoid: Aroace, he/they, trans. He's always dressed weirdly nice for the occasion, though it's mostly so he can stim with a tie or cuff links. They're a fancy little dude.

Opportunist: Pansexual, they/them, non-binary. They're a little more alternative-leaning---toeing the line of being punk while not actually committing hard enough to it---but they do lean into the masc side of things more often than not. It's the only reason why they wear a pronoun pin.

Hunted: Queer, he/it, unlabeled. He has better things to do than worry about his gender or sexuality. It just wears whatever it finds in its closet on any given day.

Skeptic: Biromantic demisexual, he/him, cis. He dresses like a noir detective---button-up shirt, suspenders, slacks, maybe a trenchcoat when it's not too hot out. Also, he absolutely wears glasses.

Smitten: Pansexual, they/them, non-binary but only recently out. They always dress like they're on their way to a Ren Faire, and they like to mix up femme and masc styles. Always with a prop sword, though.

Vessels

Damsel: Bisexual, she/her, cis. She absolutely dresses in a fairytale-dream style---puffy, flowing dresses, flower crowns, ect.

Prisoner: Panromantic demisexual, she/her, cis. I picture her with a more academic style, either in pantsuits or just fancy blazers with a comfortable skirt. She wears glasses, too.

Nightmare: Aromantic bisexual, she/her, cis. The gothiest goth to ever goth. She scares children and grown adults with her creepy makeup.

Spectre: Queer, she/her, trans. She's also goth, but more of a whimsigoth type, and I think she's also got a lot of general witchy vibes to her. Also, I always picture her with dyed lavender hair for some reason.

Beast: Queer, she/it, unlabeled. Again, better things to do than figure out what the hell her sexuality and gender is. It's a cat and it's here to either eat, sleep, or play with its food.

Witch: Lesbian, she/they, demigirl. Weirdly enough, I kind of picture her having my own personal style---lots of flannels, graphic tees, jeans and converse. Maybe there's a little bit of whimsy in there when she wants to make an effort, but usually not.

Tower: Pansexual, she/her, cis. Depending on what genre she's in, she either dresses like a badass lady knight or a high-powered exec. General girlboss vibes.

Adversary: Lesbian, she/her, cis. Hardcore butch. In every way possible.

Razor: Lesbian, she/her, trans. Because I can't resist the pun, she's a total metalhead---lots of chains, lots of studded clothing, lots of piercings, lots of buckles, the whole nine yards. Yes, you can stick magnets to her.

Stranger: Queer, any and all but prefers they/them, genderfluid and intersex. I like to think that they have different "fashion modes" depending on how they feel on different days---sweatpants and a hoodie for when they're feeling down, an alternative vibe for when they want to feel scary, a masculine vibe for when they want to feel confident, a feminine vibe for when they want to feel pretty, and a crazy-patterns-all-rainbow vibe for when they just want to be weird. They're fun.

[velvetvexations]

Just read that t4t masc4fem (?) kind of article everyone is speaking of, and sure... Being a trans man in the nonbinary lesbian kind of way myself, I kind of understand gnc or queer transfem ppl feeling repulsed since it just feels like too much gender roles...

I can't deal with cis nor trans men who'd approach me like this, not because I see it as predatory but because it's just not my cup of tea. It's not hurting me to get flowers. Or if a femme person is interested in a way that expects an overtly 'manly' role of me etc., again I am not harmed by them expressing such interest.

Initiation isn't coercion, it's where you can either give or not give consent. That's how people find people to date or flirt with. No shit.

Also... There are trans people into those dynamics described in the article. Trans people who wish they could just go on a kind of a stereotypical straight people date. Even a bit old-fashioned flowers and stuff. I think people forget how magical that can be to trans people who, by default, are not expected to be able to experience it.

I'll respect trans folk who find this type of thing gender-affirming. I've seen t4t straight or masc/fem couples like these, as well as butch/femme lesbian couples like this. This is normal trans and/or queer people stuff.

The way people read into the article as inherently rapey or predatory or incelish seem wild to me. Have they ever read anything written by an actual incel...? Because I'll tell you. Incels describe everything a woman says as manipulation. Incels view every interaction with women as a power game. Incels encourage deception, emotional abuse, manipulation and coercion.

None of the above is implied in the article. It's cheesily written for sure, but says something about society how cishets can have their cheesy romantic straight people things but when trans people do, it's gross and bad...?

Trans people are... * checks notes * attracted to or interested in relationships with literally ANYONE and are inherently seen as predators. That's fucked up. I feel like this could even be internalized shame in some of these transfems esp. if terfs have demonized transfem lesbians a lot so it's like. Seeing a trans guy into fem people be masculine and cheesily romantic feels like a taboo, I guess? Could that be it?

Ughh. Also. The part about "exploring sexuality unconventionally" or whatever, being equated to cis guys' tgirl fetishes... Like. People commenting this stuff do not know anything about trans men's sexualities or complex relationships to our bodies. To me that immediately read as;

"Another trans person will understand that the sexual roles or acts we may prefer may not be stereotypical to what people automatically assume about our anatomies."

Allocishet people have an infamously poor grasp of the idea. Trans people on the other hand... May be a liiiiittle better about taking dysphoria to account and not reducing people to specific sexual roles based on their anatomy.

Also they really have decided to view trans men as these hypersexual predatory monsters who can't even be attracted to someone without being a fucking predator. Idk that hurts to read. I wonder if it's again some internalized stuff from how TERFs predatorjacket and shame transfeminine people's sexualities. So they feel instinctively angry, because of shame, when seeing anoter trans person be a sexual being.

Also I wish more people understood not everything other people are into sexually or romantically is about them, nor has to be their cup of tea.

Yeah, it is like, at worst kinna retrograde humor but even on that level it's...not a big deal, and the outrage is especially galling because this is right in the midst of egg drama where it is vitally important we still be allowed to stereotype trans girls.

I wish I had more to add to what you've said here anon but you really laid it out.

[chocolatepot]

I'm going to be unusually publicly negative for me, but I have to say that I really hate posts that say genderbent characters "should" be portrayed as butch rather than femme. I generally assume the people reblogging them just mean "this logic is sound, and I would like to see more butch f!Aziraphale or butch f!Stede too" (I say this to reassure the reader that I'm not mad at anyone) but the way it's framed as the thoughtless genderbenders making an objectively wrong decision drives me crazy.

Almost nobody writes or draws AUs to replicate canon as closely as possible. It's not "missing the point" to reconceptualize a GNC femme man as a gender-conforming-but-still-queer femme woman - "what if this character were just as femme as they are now, but they got to express it more openly?" is just as valid an idea as "what if this character were just as GNC as they are now, but a different gender?" And an equally valid idea is "I just saw a picture of a dress I think the character would wear if they were a woman, so I'm going to draw them as a woman in it."

[genderqueerdykes]

multigender lesbians exist. bigender lesbians exist. lesbian boygirls exist. non binary lesbians exist. genderqueer lesbians exist. gnc lesbians exist. genderfluid lesbians exist. agender lesbians exist. transmasc lesbians exist. ftm lesbians exist. trans men who are lesbians exist. transfem butch lesbians exist. trans women who are lesbians exist. transfemme lesbians exist. transneutral lesbians exist. intersex lesbians exist. lesbian demiboys exist. lesbian demigirls exist. boydykes and guydykes exist. lesboys exist. testosterone butches exist. two spirit lesbians exist. lesbian men exist.

lesbians who don't fall into the butch-femme binary exist.

the lesbian community isn't just for cis lesbians. lesbians can be and are trans, too.

[universeskies]

SOOOO!!! Welcome to once again a time where I yap so much about My Favorite Characters!! One of them being Pearl! Love doing it and also quite bit of My headcanons on Their body type.

I love drawing Pearl as such a Gender neutral way, as in, nonbinary yet present VERY femmine or masculin. My headcanons when it comes to Pearl, hit in a comforting way, She is my comfort character after all XD But for real, I love drawing Her not only as a Butch but also in such Gender way that is like? Nonbinary.

Pearl for me is AFAB, and has some AWESOME Top Surgery scars, giving quite more of a trans masc too for Her. Pearl loves to just present as just one that doesn't need to owe ANYONE an androgyny if You will. Pearl is a punk and chaos rebel, and by such, They would like to present Herself as however much She feels and such. Wants to be called handsome when having such femme clothing? Yes, She would want that. Wants to be called pretty while so much showing her masculine chest and such? They would indeed want that. Not only that, but also having ideas for like, if I to design Human Pearl? Intersex AFAB. I love to see more representation of Intersex characters so for Human Pearl? That.

There are so MANY AWESOME Folks that love to present themselves or feel themselves being seen by their favorite characters and thats more than incredible and valid.

Another amazing stories all around in why I do so much love drawing Pearl like an amazing Theysbian, is just so much, the T4T Pearlina.

T4T is something that my Beloved Boyfriend @thejaytapes 💙💙💙 and I adore to have. We have lots of it! T4T Mareach and OC ships. And of course, T4T Pearlina, Trans Fem Marina and GNC Trans Masc Pearl (She/Her/He/They/Them)

I Love SO MUCH getting to ramble about my headcanons and such. And take in a lil bit as well of rambling about the body type too for Pearl. That gal is quite a really AMAZING energetic goblin (affectionate). They are one to SO much enjoy lots of great meals, and do so much as well fun all around in Matches not to mention as well when Pearl fell into the Octodomes and having to help on the Octarians (Wink Wink Hooked on to You nudge nudge).

So overall, I can see just Pearl being one to have quite the build of lean yet pretty strong too! She is one to be able to KICK ASS!! They wanna kick ass to shut someone's trap up, talk the shit AND back it up! Not only that, but mostly IMPORTANT!!! She wants to have strong arms to HUG AND BRIDAL CARRY HER WIFE! HER MARINA! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

LIKE!!! LOOK AT THEM!!! SO AMAZING AND IN LOVE!!! BADASS AND WITH STYLE!!!!

[genderstarbucks]

So sick of finding the coolest blogs but then finding out they're anti mspec gays/lesbians/straights and anti lesboys/turigirls

It's even worse if they're anti-pan/ply/omni too

Like why do people care about other people's identities so much?

No one else's identity affects you, you're just insecure about your own identity

Someone identifying as a bi-lesbian or lesboy is not making the lesbian community look bad nor is it affecting someone else's identity as a lesbian

You cannot say you want biromantic homosexual, homoromantic bisexual, abrosexual, etc. rights and then be anti mspec gays/lesbians/straights

You are a hypocrite, the SAM and abrosexuality are the most common reasons why someone would be mspec gay/lesbian/straight

My identity cannot be explained by just the word "bisexual" and my identity cannot be explained by just the word "gay man" they're intertwined

I'm a homoromantic bisexual but I'm also abrosexual, and you're anti mspec monos? You're stupid

You cannot say you want trans and GNC rights and then be anti lesboys and turigirls

So many lesboys and turigirls identify like this because they're GNC, trans and still connected to the lesbian/gay man label, being cusper between a butch lesbian and a trans man, being cusper between a femme gay man and a trans woman and so many other reasons

Exclusionists are hypocrites

You cannot advocate for queer rights but only if you deem them queer enough or a "good" queer

If you advocate for queer rights, this inclues ALL queer people

Mspec monos, gaybians, lesboys, turigirls, amab transmascs, afab transfems and any other identity that you deem "contradictory" are included in queer rights

[genderkoolaid]

Hi! I pondered today the post you've reblogged asking people to examine their biases in how they perceive transmascs. My thought was only vaguely related, as it was more related to bisexualism. I hope it's not an issue. I'd like to share it, as I respect you a lot. (Thank you lots for introducing me multigenderism! I didn't knew it was an option and I'm exploring a little! :3)

Specifically I was thinking about the erasure of men perceived as feminine from mlw relationships. There's this... assumption, that feminine men are almost inherently (OOF) unable to be attracted to women? (Putting aside fandom bias to ships involving women in the first place.) What's up with that??I cannot quite put it in the words properly but... it just doesn't sit right with me. Idk, it feels... emasculating? Like, being a femme is a vibe, a presentation, etc, but if it's a femme man it's still *very much a man*. This + typical bisexual erasure and overall assuming you can clock people's sexuality on appearance alone... Probably more that eludes me. I'm still grappling with it. Idk, there's probably much more to say here but... it's upsetting emotionally to me, personally. I'm an afab woman (maybe more) so please, *please* take my input with a grain of salt. It's just that I love men. I adore them. I want to learn more about them, learn their struggles, help them if I can. I might love them even more out of spite when biphobic people scorn at it bc it's not queer enough. Here's the catch: My type specifically is femmes. As a femme woman. So ironically my longing towards men always felt more "broken" and "unachievable" then towards women. Bc for years it felt like... femme men would never want me, by the virtue of who I am. With what body I was born and feel at home in. Idk where I'm going with this at this point. I guess I too wish people would examine their biases. In this case towards feminine men. For the sake of all men, trans, cis, femme/butch... and people who love them. Emasculating men hurts everybody. Even women, such as myself. I hope I haven't at any point sounded as equating "feminine men" to "transmasc", btw! I do NOT believe transmasc are feminine! If at any point I was coming of like that by bringing both in one ask I'm sorry! Here I'll conclude. I still have much to learn thought. I still grapple with naming the issue at hand I would deeply appreciate men insight here. Have a nice day :3

I actually posted an article written by a femme bi man talking about this topic a while back!

This is very much an issue. The way I interpret the different ways biphobes react to bi men/women is that its related to how patriarchal gender roles operate. All bisexuals are targeted by the idea that they are either "really" straight or "really" gay because of binarism. Women are resource objects, so cishet men's access to them needs to be preserved; therefore, bi women must be REALLY straight. Men, on the other hand, are competitors, and queerness is one of the major ways men are seen as failing that competition; as a result, bi men must be REALLY gay because their attraction to men(/feminine presentation, if they are femme) means they could never successfully compete at manhood. (This is ofc just a general trend; sometimes people, especially queers, will insist a bi woman must be really a lesbian esp if shes butch, and cishets may insist a bi man must be really straight especially if hes masc/butch).

I identify as bisexual and as a femme man, although I'm not sure if I would consider myself attracted to women as a man (multigender sexuality is weird but fun!), but know there very much ARE femme bi men out there who would love to be in a relationship with you. I think a lot of mlw who have a preference for femininity have experienced this, queer or not, because there is so little visibility for GNC men who are attracted to women- and because there are women who are queerphobic about the idea of a woman dating a GNC man.

[evolvedclown]

i think another reason i kept denying im a lesbian is bc most lesbian centered media is about wlw or feminine presenting nb’s. unless im specifically looking for it, you never really see anything but pretty, femme, she/her lesbians as the forefront of lesbians. So when i remembered that butch lesbians exist and that he/him lesbians are a legit thing and not just a rage bait point that people like to use to invalidate certain genderqueer/gnc lesbians, it became a lot easier to accept myself.

i use any pronouns and i want to start t but im nonbinary and like girls and others in a gay way. if you’ve read other posts i’ve written you’ll see that i’ve tried to convince myself over and over that i still like men but it’s really just aestheticlly. if you id as a man, i usually lose any interest in you past what you aesthetically look like. unless its a guy that i convince myself is a lesbian bc that’s the vibe he gives off. like percy jackson (i will not expand on this)

i really needed to go back to our queer roots and look at all of the lesbians of the past that identified/presented as men solely to be with their women lovers. or butch/butch relationships where they call eachother their boyfriend.

lesbians have always been gnc and we need to start accepting that there are more types of lesbians than just she/her fem4fem or fem4masc (the masc being like, ellie williams at most bc after that it gets too much for some people) relationships bc it ostracizes the lesbians at the beginning of it all that dressed like men and used he/him pronouns and went by different names so they could be safe with their wives. or the lesbians that grew out all their body hair and shortened their names and buzzed their heads to rebel against societal norms for women but also bc that’s just how they wanted to look.

let’s maybe stop with all the label/pronoun discorse bc all it does is divide us as a whole and make it easier for queerphobic people to attack us.

being queer is about being. stop making people feel bad for wanting to be.

if you don’t understand it, that’s kinda the point. you don’t need to understand someone else’s experience to accept it. if it’s different than yours, then so be it. no one’s experiences are going to be the same.