#but captain carter and steve have more chemistry than og peggy and og steve
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PEGGY AND NATASHA SMOOCHED
#peggynat#peggy carter#natasha romanoff#black widow#captain carter#what if#what if spoilers#THEY NEED TO SMOOCH#like peggy literally has more chemistry w nat than steve#but captain carter and steve have more chemistry than og peggy and og steve#there is a spectrum and we need to start hitting the peggynat side of it#marvel you cowards#do it for pride month
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I came out of Endgame with tears in my eyes and my heart filled up to the brim with absolute seething rage.
Even as I write this now my hands shake with some sick mixture of sadness, rage, and bitter disappointment.
So I preface this by saying that I am emotionally compromised and some of my views might shift with time and distance.
But, for better or for worse, this is my first rage flushed take:
I am so disappointed and so angry that after all of the tension, all of the build, all of the time and sweat and tears, all of the loyalty, we were rewarded with this.
Endgame had its high points, I’m not saying that it didn’t. There were some genuinely funny moments and some heart rending ones as well.
Every single second Tony Stark was on screen was flawless as always. Robert Downey Jr. once again proved why he and he alone was suited for the role of Tony Stark and the task of carrying the majority of the MCU for the past 10+ years.
That’s not to say that the rest of the cast wasn’t good. All of the actors all obviously brought their A game and then some when they were allowed to by what I loosely call a script.
So yeah, there were some highs.
But when its comes to Endgame’s low points?
Its low points were subterranean.
They lowered the bar and then they dug underneath it.
Again I’m writing this basically fresh from the theater and with my emotions still high so do forgive me if this is a bit jumbled around or if I ramble a bit as I cover some of the real issues I had with the film.
So, first thing to address was the overall tone of the film.
For this to be the much glorified Endgame, the “battle of our lives”, there was, in my opinion, a distinct lack of true tension in this film. Instead of a fraught, nail biting, tension filled ride, Endgame is more of a ... brisk jog through some vaguely sticky situations.
Instead of playing the story straight and giving the situation the gravity it deserved, the narrative went out of its way to put humor that served no other purpose than to ruin what tension had been previously built. And, in my opinion, the tone of the film suffered for it.
The humor and jokes were humorous, I’m not saying they wasn’t. I genuinely laughed out loud in the moment. But I also feel that, with the majority of the comedy that was wedged into the narrative, the film suffered for it.
Now let’s move on a bit to the actual plot of the film. Again, forgive me if I bounce a bit:
Jeremy Renner was breathtakingly heartbreaking as Clint Barton. Renner was finally allowed to stretch his legs a bit in this film and he proved that, had he been given the chance, he would have given us a Clint Barton to take our breath away.
Watching with Clint as his family died helped to set what should have been the tone for the majority of the film from there on while reminding us of just what was lost and just what was at stake all at the same time.
Chris Evans brought heart to his portrayal of a Steve Rogers who seems both lighter and more weighted down in this film than ever before.
Scarlett Johansson’s Natasha finally showed more emotion than “head tilt”, “lip purse”, and “arched brow” and it was beautiful.
The brief flash of friendship and affection between Nebula and Tony was perfect and heartwarming as well. Nebula was magnificent as the “feral space cat desperately in need of softness and a friendly hand” when placed side by side with a slowly withering Tony Stark who is, even at his lowest moments, still kind to this alien cyborg he doesn’t know but to who he owes his life. They flowed together with an onscreen chemistry in their few moments side by side that felt organic and aching.
Together Tony and Nebula embodied a truly important life/plot point of “meet kindness with kindness and kindness will be your reward”.
Moving forward in time hearing Tony vent his anger and his pain and his distrust at Steve was cathartic in a lot of ways.
As was watching Tony rip the arc reactor from his chest and slap it into Steve’s hand.
In this moment Tony is handing Steve his metaphorical broken heart and leaving someone else to, for once, try and pick up the pieces.
But then, unfortunately, things go rather steeply down hill from there.
With Tony out for the count in a hospital bed the others hunt down and execute Thanos with basically a hand wave and all hope for the stones is lost.
Until deus ex rat-ina unleashes Scott Lang from the quantum realm and the logic of the film takes a sharp left turn.
Scott Lang was missing for 5 years.
To him it was 5 hours.
To which I say, why did Janet van Dyne, age during her stay in the quantum realm? If, according to the MCU canon, every year in our world was roughly only an hour for Scott Lang, then why didn’t Janet come out of the quantum realm only 30 hours older instead of 30 years?
I feel like the answer is probably “because” but yeah maybe I’m just fuzzy on my Ant Man so if I’m wrong then just ignore that bit please.
Also, just a side note, I adore how it’s been 5 years, Wakanda is very much an ally and still up and running, and yet Rhodey still don’t have working legs. But alas, racism.
Moving on.
So with the main villain dead and Tony Stark having solved time travel in his living room, because I stan legends only, we’re now subjected, and that is the very word I’d use to describe what happens next, to what is called a Time Heist.
Cute.
Also Bruce Banner and Hulk have now merged Steven Universe style despite Hulk being scared green-less 5 years ago. But that’s all good, Bruce smoked a ton of weed, they meditated, went on a cleanse or whatever.
Either way Bruce finally did that character development that everyone had been shouting at him since Avengers 2012 and accepted Hulk as part of him and they’re now Dr. Hulk which was … something that happened?
A thing that they chose to do. The direction in which they set their narrative wheels and then powered full steam ahead and plowed us right over in the process.
But yeah, Time Heist! That’s the way to go, the only way apparently.
Because going back in time to stop the Snappening isn’t an option due to reasons that are explained and still look and feel paper thin but probably just honestly boils down to “Russos”
Our intrepid heroes will now split up and surf through time Bill and Ted style to collect the Stones from different points in history.
Yay.
So the rest of the film is basically that, a big old jewel hunt through space and history where the Russos attempt to fool us into thinking their plot points are cohesive and cool by donkey punching us repeatedly in our nostalgia-sacks.
We’re treated to, in no particular order, such hits as:
“Ah 2012 and the invasion of New York only not as interesting but Tony Stark is very much an ass man, but then we been done known that.”
“The Ancient One and her still very distracting skull vein coming at you right now”
“LOKI YOU LITTLE SHIT”
“The one time I envied Scott Lang because, for a split second, he got to be inside Tony Stark”
“Let’s watch Tony Stark simultaneous take a Hulk to the face and have a small cardiac event all at the same time but from different angles”
And let us not forget
“Tee Hee Hee us white bois just had to find a way to make sure Captain America say “Hail HYDRA” but it was for “spy reasons” so weren’t we clever???????”
Yeah boys, great job.
So edgy.
(Although as a side note I do agree, Steve Roger’s ass really is America’s ass and I’d like to thank him for that. Personally.)
But then, of course, Endgame would not have been complete without:
“Steve Rogers stares longingly and creepily at Peggy Carter from behind a window, further backing up his one defining character trait in the MCU which is the inability to move on. Also she doesn’t look up at all despite being a trained spy and all around badass who probably should have noticed the 6 foot slab of American Beef staring at her from less than a foot away, dark room or no dark room.”
And then my personal favorite:
“Tony Stark sees Howard Stark, the father he described as “calculating, cold, he never told me he was proud of me, never even told me he loved me” but it’s all good cause Tony’s a dad now so looking back all he sees are the good times with his emotionally neglectful and abusive father who says there’s nothing he wouldn’t do for his unborn kid and now they awkwardly hug while I try not to scream “FOOTAGE NOT FUCKING FOUND HOWARD AND NO THAT ONE 3 MINUTE VIDEO DOESN’T COUNT YOU SHIT” at the screen and explode in pure rage.”
Joy.
Truly a scene that was necessary and fit the narrative of Howard Stark’s personality and was needed for Tony to uh get closure or grow as a man and a father or something …
It totally wasn’t yet another excuse to give a canonically abusive father screen time in a way that seems genial and sweet in an attempt to give them a bit of redemption that they neither earned nor deserve.
But yeah, whatever, moving on.
Also Rhodey remains an absolute gem and he and Nebula get shit done.
Only oops, not so fast.
Because apparently the only one who is going to run into the whole “two of you can’t exist in one place at one time without consequences” rule is Nebula who, despite her bitchin orange stripe/badge of character development, managed to like synch up with her past self?
Because she didn’t turn her bluetooth/quantum entanglement function off I guess.
Either way Orange Stripe Nebula, O’Snebula as I call her, has accidentally air dropped all her files into OG Nebula’s mental iPhone.
So yeah now big old Past Grimace knows what’s up.
Ooops??
So shit goes down and then Past Grimace is like “you need to Trogan horse this shit, least favorite daughter” so OG Nebula does because “daddy issues”.
Dr. Hulk puts on the gauntlet and Kentucky fires his arm bringing all the people lost in the Snappening back to life now, 5 years after they got dusted.
Which is … honestly a recipe for disaster in so many ways. What about the people, like the guy in Steve’s support group, who have started to move on?
What about the people who have remarried, have built new lives?
All of that’s ruined now.
It’s fantastic all those people are alive again but jobs, housing, food, healthcare, government, all of it is back in massive disarray across the universe.
And bringing those people back does nothing to bring back the people who didn’t die in the Snappening but died from causality instead. All the deaths caused by suicides, by car/bus/train/plane/ship/etc crashes, by a lack of first responders, by the civil/world/interplanetary wars that probably raged across the universe due to entire governments disappearing?
All of those people are still dead.
The Snappening killed half of all life in the universe. Causality probably killed another good ÂĽ after that.
And Dr. Hulk’s Un-Snappening saves none of them.
This isn’t a true solution, it’s a shitty band-aid.
But yeah, Russos so….
Moving on.
Yadda Yadda Yadda, plot plot plot. OG Nebula goes undercover, Past Grimace ends up in the future, there’s some fighting (which was admittedly BAD ASS), shit happens, and Tony saves the day like we all knew he would.
YAY!
Despite the massive rambling up above I’m not gonna plot out the entire movie right here though a lot will probably get covered coming up because here’s where I get down and start talking about the various character arcs too.
Because what a wild fucking ride those were.
Okay to take it from the top Scott Lang’s arc was fine. Beyond my questions about the quantum realm his was clear cut and fine although I do wonder at his luck at being, apparently, the only Scott Lang in San Fran to go missing. Well either that or he was staring at some other Scott Lang’s name instead of his own and in that case “awkward”.
Bruce’s arc was … look I could have done without all of the cringy Dr. Hulk stuff that they played up for laughs. If they were gonna brush Hulk being terrified under the rug they could have found a better way to do it besides just erasing the duality between Hulk and Banner with a hand wave.
But yeah, Russos.
Carol Danvers was beautiful and magnificent and completely brushed aside. Yes she was out in the universe handling shit, yes I know they did that so they could focus on the core Avengers, etc etc etc.
But it’s a damn shame that Carol Danvers, and her glorious haircut, was reduced to being the sorely needed and totally badass cavalry and last minute ace in the hole when she should have, logically, been a part of the vanguard. Honestly I have thoughts on why Carol’s entire character should have been saved completely for the next phase of the MCU instead of introduced so late in this one but I digress.
O’Snebula was a perfect shining bionic light and I love her.
Gamora is now alive in the future but at what cost? Not that her life isn’t worth something on its own, it totally is and she deserved the loophole resurrection 10000%.
Shit’s gonna be awkward though cause she doesn’t love Quill, she doesn’t love the Guardians, doesn’t really know O’Snebula or the universe she’s been thrown into. She doesn’t have the memories or the experiences or the character growth and even if she does go back to her family she’ll never be the same person.
Now her and Quill’s relationship, if they ever have one again, will be reduced down to Quill going “you fell in love with me once you could do it again despite us no longer having the shared experiences that bonded us together”. Same can be said for the rest of the Guardians as well.
Guess we all know what the plot of GotG 3 is gonna be about.
And that brings us to the story lines that really and truly upset me.
Which is basically all the rest of them.
Natasha/Clint’s combined story-line, Thor’s everything, Steve’s … Steve, and then finally Tony.
Now the Natasha/Clint story-line started out promising.
Clint’s rage and pain was obvious, his heartbreak poignant. His decision to use all of those to cut a bloody swathe through the criminal underworld was both Dramatic(™) and understandable.
Natasha’s love and grief for him, her desperate attempts to hold onto what she has left by throwing herself into her new job, was a perfect demonstration that Natasha Romanoff is very much not a robot. She was exhausted, frayed at the edges, and she had tears in her eyes, over Clint. And then she pulled herself together, slipped her mask back on, and pushed her way forward. This was all excellent.
It was also a nice narrative callback/parallel to have Natasha be the one to go out and bring Clint in from the cold.
Natasha plays touch stone, plays stability, for Clint and for many of the others. For the first time Natasha is truly portrayed as a person all the way down to the core instead of some witty quips in a catsuit. Plus her eyebrows finally came back from the war and her hair looked good again. So there was that.
Clint and Natasha’s arc comes to a climax on Vormir as they search for the Soul Stone and Red Skull, the Nazi cockroach that he is, gives them the same spiel he gave Thanos.
To get the Soul Stone you must give up the life of the one you love the most. A soul for a soul.
Narrative wise this is consistent, we all knew this would happen as soon as they started searching for the Stones again. It was obvious.
It was also obvious that Clint was the perfect sacrifice.
He’s got nothing left, his family is dead, he’s already lost the people he loves the most, he’s spent five years being a borderline monster.
And he is also, without a doubt, the thing that Natasha loves the most.
Clint was ready and willing to go, ready to die for the blood on his hands, ready to sacrifice himself for the chance that his family would be saved.
Ready to lay down on the wire and let Natasha walk over him for the sake of everything.
Clint dying made sense, was narratively sound, and heartbreaking.
All of which are only a few of the reasons why Natasha’s death was such a goddamn betrayal.
Instead of following along with the narratively sound death of Clint Barton, an Avenger that’s been ignored for most of the films as is, the Russo brothers instead chose to fridge Natasha.
Clint dying would have been the perfect mirror to Gamora’s death.
Gamora was a daughter unwillingly sacrificed by her father to destroy half of all life in the universe.
Clint would have been a father willingly sacrificed by a friend to save half of all life in the universe, his own sons and daughter included.
But no, we didn’t get that, instead we got a gratuitous scene of Natasha Romanoff, the Black Widow, splayed angel like and bloody on the rocks below.
Instead they fridged the Black Widow, the only woman of the original Big Six, because they couldn’t bring themselves to fridge a man.
So Clint gets the Soul Stone.
Such a fitting end for the Black Widow right? Dying in a man’s place, mourned on screen by a circle of men, but ultimately set aside rather quickly.
I understand why Natasha wanted to be the one to go, I understand that she didn’t want Clint’s family to lose their husband/father and that her true family was the Avengers. I get that. It doesn’t mean I enjoy or agree with the decision they made any more.
It doesn’t make me any less tired of watching female characters die for the sake of men and their families.
Natasha Romanoff sacrificed herself for the universe and her family and that deserves respect even if I absolutely hate it as a narrative choice.
Oh and what about the absolute NERVE of the Russos to have that awesome Lady Power Battle Strut happen but only after they killed Natasha, one of the Big Six?
Bitter? Me? Nooo.
Now, moving on to Thor.
Thor.
Oh my actual God, Thor.
The levels of disrespect Thor, Chris Hemsworth, and the fans were shown with this character arc/story-line in Endgame is breathtaking.
The absolute, shameless disrespect.
They turned Thor into a cowardly, drunken slob who has spent the last 5 years ignoring his responsibilities to what’s left of his people and instead has spent his time drinking, sulking, and literally yelling at kids over PSN??
Endgame’s Thor has the bullshit reasoning that he needs to stop trying to be who he thinks he should be and instead be who he is.
Which flies completely in the face of literally all of his character development from Thor all the way to Thor 3 and then Infinity War.
The entirety of Thor 3 was Thor’s hero’s journey culminating in him finally being the king he was always meant to be. Finally maturing and stepping forward to lead his people.
I am supposed to believe that Thor, depressed and guilty or not for not killing Thanos when he had the chance the first time, just abandoned his people like that?
I’m supposed to believe that Thor would piss all over everything the majority of his family and friends died for?
I’m supposed to believe that Heimdall, Loki, countless soldiers, and The Warrior’s Three and Lady Sif (I guess), all died to protect Asgard, died for the people and for Thor, and Thor just what? Turns his back on all of that to become a drunk?
No, Thor wouldn’t do that. Thor should have been down there beside Valkyrie working those fishing vessels when Bruce and Rocket came calling. If Thor had any hesitance to join them it should have been, “I can’t abandon my people, I am needed here.” He should have been fiercely guarding the tiny fraction of Asgard that’s left.
Thor’s depression and guilt was valid. Don’t mistake me on that. But they played it for jokes. They made him a caricature of depression, made him “gross” and incompetent and the butt of the jokes, and in the process diminished what should have been a painful and poignant arc for Thor.
Instead we got Big Lebowski Thor, bathrobe included, who does stand up and fight yes but, in the end, gives up his crown and just fucks off to space to have petty pissing competitions with Peter Quill so he can?? find himself?? despite finding himself in Ragnarok already???
Thor’s entire arc in Endgame was shallow, mishandled, and disrespectful to the character, to Chris Hemsworth, and to the fans.
You, we, he, all deserved better than this.
Now we get to Steve.
Steve Rogers, Captain America himself.
I’ve had a lot of salt about Steve’s character and actions in the MCU but, all of that aside, he deserved so much more than what the Russo’s did to him in Endgame.
Hell he’s deserved so much more than what’s been done to him since post-CA:TFA.
But this is about Endgame specifically soooo….
Steve’s shown leading a support group in the beginning of Endgame, is shown talking about moving on and moving forward and learning to let go. Which is wonderful. It sounds like the exact character development we’ve all been waiting for for Steve.
Which is, of course, the exact moment when Steve goes “nah just kidding, we don’t ever move on”.
Which, given the circumstances, is pretty fair. If Steve was only thinking/talking about Thanos and the events of Infinity War.
But of course he wasn’t.
CA:CW should have been the end of the Peggy Carter saga for Steve. He mourned her, he was finally moving forward, he’d kissed Sharon, he threw everything away to save Bucky, he gave up his shield, etc etc.
But no. Endgame finds him right back there, clutching that goddamn compass, and making moon eyes at a woman who we all thought went on and lived a life without him, got married, had kids, and generally existed outside of Steve Rogers.
But no. The Russo’s had to take that away from us too.
And yes yes I know I know multiverse or whatever but still.
Steve steamrolls his way through Endgame with skill and determination. He picks up Thor’s hammer, finally worthy, which how??? Why??? (perhaps because he’s no longer keeping secrets??? Or maybe that’s just my salt talking? Who knows? Not me?)
And then he fights Thanos head to head.
(Although him wielding the hammer brought up an entire separate set of issues cause I’m pretty sure Mjolnir doesn’t actually summon lightning. Ragnarok pretty much said that the lightning has always been within Thor. Mjolnir was just a control accessory. But, you know, Russos *jazzhands*)
And then, in the end, he insists on returning the Stones on his own.
Only he doesn’t come back like he was supposed to.
Instead we’re given old Steve Rogers.
Because Steve returned the Stones and then ….went and found Peggy Carter and got married and lived an entire life with her ignoring everything he would have known was going to happen to her and around the both of them or something???
Or maybe not if the multiverse thing holds up but then who knows any more???
But then how did Old Steve end up right there by that lake on that day at that right time if he’s technically from a different multiverse???
Either way Sam gets his shield and the mantle of Captain America, which was fantastic, and Bucky more than likely knew Steve’s plan all along but the best read I really got on him was basically “eh” so he might well have been happy for Steve too.
But still, instead of finally achieving peace and continuing to learn to live in the future with Bucky and Sam and the remnants of the Avengers, his family and the life he’s built there over the past years, instead of putting the shield down because he’s learned to let go in the now, Steve only puts the shield down because he chooses the past.
He chooses the past over all of that and all of the people left who love him. Sure the argument could be said that he knew they’d be alright but still.
There is a deep well of dissatisfaction inside of me as to how Steve’s entire ending arc was handled. Why did peace only come to Steve after Tony and Natasha were both dead and then was only found in the past?
No disrespect to Peggy Carter, I adore her, but were the relationships he had in the future worth so little that the past was the only place he could find happiness? A past with a woman that he knows loved him but still moved on and found happiness outside of him, lived a full and happy life without him?
Steve didn’t get a character arc so much as he got a character circle. A character loop. He went right back to where he started.
Endgame erases all of the character development Steve underwent post-Avengers. Just brushes it all under the rug.
The Russo’s stole the character development Steve Rogers spent a decade undergoing to give him their version of a happy ending.
They robbed him and us both of every bit of growth and forward motion Steve has underwent and I will never forgive them for that.
And now we get to Tony Stark.
Anthony Edward Stark.
The Iron Man.
Tony’s arc is, was, the longest and best developed arc in the entirety of the MCU.
It’s spanned 10+ years and has been nurtured and hand fed by Robert Downey Jr.
If Endgame got one thing right, one thing at all, it’s how they handled the majority of Tony’s arc.
From him laying the smack down on Steve once he was home, finally venting his emotions and his anger, all the way to him solving time travel before tucking his kid into bed, and then building an Infinity Gauntlet on his own even though Thanos committed genocide to get the one he had.
Tony Stark’s arc was glorious and expected and sad.
I think that my one almost complaint is that Tony stopped for 5 years. On one hand he deserved the rest, deserved the chance to find happiness. He was hurt and tired and he’d faced his demons and been left bleeding out with the death of half the universe weighing on his shoulders.
He deserved to just stop for a while.
On the other hand stopping is not something Tony has ever been good at, just like Pepper said. A part of me thought Tony would be working, frantically, to find something, anything, to turn back the hands of time. To track Thanos down. To get the Stones and then to get everything else back.
To get Peter and all of the others back.
But that’s not the route they went and I’m … okay? I guess, with that.
Tony was validated and vindicated and everyone would have finally listened to him. It only took the death of half of the universe to do it. But he was too tired, too hurt and untrusting to keep pushing. I can respect that.
But of course once an idea worms its way inside Tony can’t let it go. So he solves time travel on the fly and sets out to save the world.
Again.
His one stipulation is that he will do anything, everything, he has to in order to keep what he has now. His wife Pepper and Morgan, his sweet little daughter.
So of course he doesn’t get to do that either.
After all of the blood, sweat, suffering, and mental illnesses, Tony doesn’t get his happy ending. Not really.
He gets to rest, yes, but he loses out on everything he wanted to do with his kid. In the process of saving the universe he becomes the one thing he never wanted to be for Morgan, a distant father.
A face on a screen, stories, memories other people have.
No matter how many holograms or inventions or whatever Tony left to Morgan, it’ll never replace him.
Morgan got 5 years with her father. She’ll spend the rest of her life hearing stories about him, about how much of a hero he was. And hopefully, with Pepper and all the others behind her, Tony will remain a hero to her and will not, instead, become her version of Captain America. An untouchable symbol that Morgan will never live up to.
So, in the end, Tony sacrifices once again.
Watches the future he wanted crumble to dust in his fingers, lightning scorching him from the inside out as infinity rips him apart.
And he dies there, surrounded by some of the people who love him best.
His best friend.
His wife.
The son he almost had.
And, despite all of that, it is very very fitting that his death was at his own hands.
Thanos could take out half the universe, he could traverse time and space, he could humble Thor, terrorize the Hulk, rip Steve Roger’s up, survive shield and hammer and so much more, but the one thing he couldn’t do?
He couldn’t kill Tony Stark.
The only thing that could kill Iron Man, could kill Tony Stark, was his own heart.
Tony Stark takes the Infinity Stones in hand knowing how this is going to end, knowing that Stephen Strange set him on this path years ago.
Because didn’t Strange warn him? Didn’t Strange tell him outright “I’ll let the kid and you both die to protect the Time Stone”?
Tony just never expected it to take a few hours and then 5 more years for Strange’s promise to finally be fulfilled.
So Tony does it knowing that after everything he’s been through, all of the pain and the suffering and the battles, it was only enough to have earned 5 years of happiness, 5 years of his dream.
5 years of being the father he always swore he’d be.
Tony Stark takes the Infinity Stones and dies for the entire universe, for his family, for his daughter. Dies knowing that he’ll be doing the one thing he didn’t want to do, swore he would never do.
Leaving them behind.
Tony Stark brings us full circle as he stands as both equal and mirror of Thanos once again.
Man to Titan. Good Father to Bad Father. Life to Death.
Tony Stark picks up the weight of the universe and then he dies making sure that it has a future free from the same fear that has haunted him for a decade.
A warm light for all mankind, sent to sleep, to rest, knowing that finally everything will be okay.
And all he had to do was die for it.
So, I’ll close this out saying this:
This was written in one solid push after my first viewing and Endgame was dissatisfying for me as you might have guessed. I am disappointed and angry at so much they chose to do to end out this iconic decade of cinema and to close out these character’s arcs.
There were a lot of points and little details I didn’t get to cover in this and perhaps a lot of points you might not agree with me on.
That’s okay.
Because, no matter what, there is one thing I know for sure.
We, I, will always have Tony Stark and the lessons he taught me. The pain he endured and shared with all of us. The bravery and strength he inspired in so many of us as we watched him struggle with physical and mental illnesses on screen. As we watched him obsess and stress and love and grow.
I have never loved a character more than I love Tony Stark.
I have never been impacted by a character as much as I have been by Tony Stark.
I’m not sure if I ever will again.
So, Tony Stark is Iron Man.
He always will be.
And he saved more than just some fictional universe.
He saved a lot of us along the way too.
And we’ll always love him for that.
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The List - the Meat Life Reviews the Avengers: Infinity Saga
It’s back! the Meat Life’s The List returns to rank all of the MCU Infinity Saga movies from Iron Man all the way to Spider-Man: Far From Home.
With the home release of Avengers: Endgame, I thought it would be a great time to revisit the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Two summers ago, after I had watched Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 and about a month before I got to watch Spider-Man: Homecoming, I ranked the MCU movies. You can find that ranking here. Now that I have watched what Kevin Feige describes as the final installment in Marvel’s Infinity Saga, I go through the movies again and rank all 23 installments including the last two --- Avengers: Endgame and Spider-Man: Far From Home. For the ones I ranked in the first one, I have included their old ranking in parentheses. And since Tumblr now limits pictures in entries to ten, I will include pictures of the new reviews.
#23 (15) - The Incredible Hulk (2008)
This is the second film in the first phase of the MCU. The movie is mostly forgotten in the MCU, including by me. It wasn’t a bad movie (certainly a marked improvement from 2003′s Hulk), but it felt like something was missing from it. Of course, there is only so much you can do with a character in its own movie. We find Bruce Banner (played by Edward Norton in this movie) being chased by General Ross, the man who spearheaded the project to create super soldiers that created the Hulk. Ross will become an important figure 8 years later in Civil War. And of course at the end of the movie we have a Tony Stark-building a team cameo and this was the intro of OG Avenger Bruce Banner/Hulk. Was the worse MCU movie in my initial ranking, and it remains there.
#22 (14) - Iron Man 2 (2010)
The weakest of the Iron Man movies. They replace Terrence Howard’s Rhodey with Don Cheadle, who in the long run has better chemistry with Robert Downey Jr, but in this movie is just weird to see instead of Howard. The villains are also probably the weakest of the MCU, with Ivan Vanko looking to exact revenge against the Stark family and Justin Hammer as the head of rival weapons manufacturer looking to take down Tony Stark. Totally didn’t notice the Elon Musk cameo until about the fourth time I watched it, a big inspiration for the Tony Stark movie character. The biggest contribution to the MCU/Infinity Saga is the introduction of OG Avenger Black Widow.
#21 (10) - Thor: The Dark World (2013)
Loki is one of the better villains of the MCU, and in The Dark World he is on full display. Is he good? Is he bad? In this installment, Thor must work with Loki to defeat the Dark Elves who are going after Jane Foster because she has the Ether within her. The cliff-hanger style ending makes it almost unfulfilling. The plot isn’t really as important as the introduction of the Ether, later known as the Reality Stone and the movie’s use in Avengers: Endgame.
#20 (9) - Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)
Although Age of Ultron was seen as a step back from the first Avengers, it is still a very solid film especially after knowing the full picture of the Infinity Saga. This is very much a set up movie, though. We see Tony Stark accidentally create Ultron out of feeling the need to further protect the world (and also created Vision to counter). We see Hawkeye with a family and a Romanov-Banner romance. We see the introduction of the Maximov kids, with Quicksilver’s death toward the end and Scarlet Witch joining the Avengers. And whilst on the run we also see some of the seeds of tension between Stark and Rogers as well as the leveling of the Sokovia that are important later in Captain America: Civil War. I also didn’t notice that much when I first watched but they introduced Wakanda as the source of vibranium and the vibranium poacher Ulysses Klaue.
#19 (13) - Thor (2011)
I did enjoy the movie, although I will say that this is one of the weaker entries in the MCU. As the heir to the throne of Asgard, the arrogant Thor loses his hammer and must prove his worthiness before getting it back. He bumps into scientist Jane Foster played by Natalie Portman (yes!). He humbles himself and eventually earns back his hammer and has to fight the forces of his brother Loki. We see the first appearance of Hawkeye who will become one of the OG Avengers.
#18 (11) - Doctor Strange (2016)
Arrogant doctor Stephen Strange travels to Nepal in search of a treatment for his hands that were devastated from a car accident. He gets trained by the Ancient One to reveal powers in how to access different dimensions and wield mystical weapons. He has to harness these powers to fight Kaecilius, who has stolen pages of an ancient handbook to access the Dark Dimension. Some of the mystical stuff might not be for everyone and I only stuck with it because I like Benedict Cumberbatch and I’m glad I did. I’ve heard Doctor Strange described as Iron Man but with magic, and that’s not wrong.
#17 - Captain Marvel (2019)
We see Carol Danvers, who has lost her memory of her origin and has an unrealized power, think she’s Kree, a sort of police warrior race. She eventually goes against them when she figures out they exiled Krulls and lied to her about her human origin. Along the way she goes to Earth in the 1990’s and does sort of a buddy cop detective case with the SHIELD agent Nick Fury to figure out who she is. It was cool to see how Fury loses his eye and seeing the old Tesseract/Space Stone. While Captain Marvel is not a bad movie, in my opinion this would have been a much stronger movie if they leaned more into her backstory of being held down and knocked down a lot more. Unintentionally, but in my mind this will always be measured against Wonder Woman, about the only thing in the MCU era that DC did better than Marvel.
#16 (6) - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017)
I had this ranked higher in my initial ranking but I must say after a while I liked some of the other titles better than this one. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 picks up where the last left off, mixing the right amount of humor and action and pulling on just enough heartstrings for you to be pulled right in. The Guardians have to face against someone they never expected: Peter Quill’s dad. We see the introduction of Mantis and her addition to the Guardians.
#15 (8) - Ant-Man (2015)
Ant-Man grew on me. Marvel may well have a formula now with the mix of humor and superhero action, but it’s a formula that works. Here we follow unlikely hero Scott Lang played by Paul Rudd, a former engineer turned petty criminal, training to break into Pym Technologies using Hank Pym’s old shrinking suit to take down the corrupted Pym protege Darren Cross. Rudd’s humor, chemistry with Evangeline Lilly’s Hope van Dyne, along with humorous sidekicks played by Michael Pena and T.I. are the glue to this movie.
#14 (7) - Iron Man 3 (2013)
I think most don’t give the final installment of the Iron Man trilogy much credit. We are reminded of why we love the Tony Stark character. In spite of his arrogance there is a tremendous heart, and we see both on full display here. Set after the events of the first Avengers, Stark is going through PTSD. He tries to navigate through that while being attacked by new threats. And it was good after the large scale of the first Avengers movie to get something more down to Earth.
#13 - Ant-Man and the Wasp (2018)
We pick up after the events of Captain America: Civil War, where Scott Lang is serving the back end of a two-year house arrest for breaking the Sokovia Accords. Hank Pym and Hope van Dyne are underground and developed a quantum accelerator in the hopes of getting Hank’s wife Janet van Dyne out of the quantum realm. Arms dealer Sonny Burch and unstable phasing Ghost are after the accelerator. After the heaviness of Avengers: Infinity War, it was nice to have a little relief on a smaller scale. And Paul Rudd doing Paul Rudd things is always pleasant.
#12 - Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)
Picking up after the events of Captain America: Civil War (and apparently “eight years” after the first Avengers movie), we see Peter Parker filling his time being the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man under the distant watchful eye of Happy Hogan and Tony Stark. That is, until he finds The Vulture’s henchmen Shocker one and two selling weapons infused with alien tech from the Invasion of New York. We get a great sequence where Peter learns the night of homecoming that his love interest Liz is actually the Vulture’s daughter and all the tension that follows. With all due respect to Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield, Tom Holland fits the Spider-Man/Peter Parker role the very best. And at the end, we get something that rarely happens with Marvel villains...the Vulture lives and goes to jail.
#11 (12) - Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)
This movie has aged very well over time. Steve Rogers, a scrawny kid from New York, wanted to serve his country in the middle of World War II. He was selected for experimental super soldier program and became the face of the US military, spending time raising money for the USO. Then he starts hunting down Nazi science division Hydra and its leader Red Skull. It ends with Rogers downing a Hydra bomber and crashing it in ice, preserving him until modern time. It also heartbreakingly separates Rogers from love interest Peggy Carter, SSR Agent who helped him through his WWII missions and promised a dance. This pays off later.
#10 (5) - Iron Man (2008)
The film that kick started the entire MCU. Here we follow Tony Stark and the origin of Iron Man, birthed from Stark being captured by a mercenary terror group and called to action after seeing his company’s weapons in the wrong hands. This was a role ready-made for Robert Downey Jr, a great mix of arrogance, empathy, and quick wit. And there’s plenty of action. And with that first movie we get the first post-credit scene, a now trademark Marvel touch, introducing Nick Fury the Director of SHIELD recruiting Stark into a “bigger universe.”
#9 (4) - Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
I’ll admit, when Marvel announced Guardians of the Galaxy, I had planned on skipping out. I knew nothing of the comic and it looked cheesy. So yes, I had my doubts about a group that included a talking raccoon and a fighting tree. But I gave it a chance and Guardians ended up being one of the stronger movies of the MCU. We see the origin of Peter Quill, a.k.a. Star-Lord and how the Guardians came together. This has that right mix of humor, action, chemistry, and 80s mix tape. And we see the introduction of the Orb containing the Power Stone.
#8 - Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)
Eight months following the events of Avengers: Endgame, we get to see some of the aftermath of the world after “The Blip,” including a hilarious school news tribute video of our fallen heroes set to Whitney Houston’s rendition of “I Will Always Love You.” We see Nick Fury commandeer Peter’s summer class trip to Europe to initially help Mysterio battle what looks to be Elementals from another dimension set to destroy Earth. Little do we know that it’s all an illusion that Mysterio and a crew of technicians in an effort to destroy Tony Stark’s legacy and become the biggest savior of the world. That’s about as in depth I’ll go since this movie is still in theaters so I won’t spoil the fun. But I will say that this is probably the best version of a Spider-Man movie with all the awkward teen moments, his heavy weight of responsibility of being in line to be the next Tony Stark, and the sweet interplay between Parker and Zendaya’s MJ as well as bestie Jacob Batalon’s Ned. The MCU is in good hands post-Infinity Saga with Spider-Man on board. And there is a great surprise in the end credit scene.
#7 - Thor: Ragnarok (2017)
This Thor. Marvel finally figured out how to use Thor and Chris Hemsworth’s comedic timing. Right from the opening monologue you get that this is a different movie from the other two Thor’s. After Odin’s death, Thor’s half-sister Hela takes over Asgard as Thor and Loki disappear to the planet Sakaar. Thor is imprisoned as a gladiator-style fighter where he bumps into his “friend from work” Hulk. They all link up with Valkyrie, a former Asgardian warrior to escape Sakaar and save the Asgardian people from destruction. We see great comedy and chemistry between all the main characters, Idris Elba’s Heimdall get a lot of screen time protecting and hiding the Asgardian people from Hela, and hilarious performances from Karl Urban’s Skurge and Jeff Goldblum’s Grandmaster. In the end credit scene we see Thanos’ ship coming in for the events directly preceding Avengers: Infinity War.
#6 (3) - The Avengers (2012)
Director Joss Whedon pulled off what people once thought impossible...a superhero team-up movie. We see Nick Fury pull together Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Black Widow and later Hawkeye for the first time to figure out and stop Loki’s plan to use the Chitauri warriors to take over Earth. The Avengers definitely is an action movie with some dramatic elements but the thing that sticks out about this is even with New York City in peril, the ride is great! The chemistry of the entire ensemble is on full display. Before Thanos, Loki makes for probably the strongest villain in the series. When this came out, it was hard to see Marvel top this. And we see a glimpse of Thanos for the first time in a post-credits scene.
#5 - Black Panther (2018)
Marvel never stops amazing world building, a vibrant look at the fictional nation of Wakanda included. Black Panther picks up after the events of Captain America: Civil War, but to open we get a flashback of Oakland, California in 1992 that will impact the entire plot that follows. We then see Prince T’Challa get crowned king upon his return to Wakanda, following the death of his father T’Chaka in Civil War. Mysterious American Killmonger works with vibranium poacher Ulysses Klaue at first seemingly to steal more vibranium. As the movie progresses it is revealed that Killmonger is actually Wakandan whose father was killed in the opening scene in Oakland and is after the throne. Upon several viewings, there are multiple layers as there are in Ryan Coogler directed movies. This movie is part James Bond (with T’Challa’s sister Shuri playing the Q role), part family drama, part political thriller, and of course part Marvel movie. Black Panther tries to tackle political issues like inclusion, globalization, and immigration while also addressing how a family’s mistakes from the past can haunt and impact a family’s future. Michael B Jordan’s Killmonger is a top three MCU villain and there are wonderful performances from Lupita Nyong’o’s Nakia, Danai Gurira’s Okoye, Martin Freeman’s Everett Ross, and Andy Serkis’ Klaue. The end credit scene shows a relaxed Bucky talking to Shuri about his recovery.
#4 (2) - Captain America: Civil War (2016)
In this installment, the Avengers find themselves under hot water after an accident on a mission. The UN votes to approve the Sokovia Accords that limits the Avengers decision making, splitting the team between those who support it who stand with Iron Man and those who oppose it who stand with Captain America. During the signing, we see an attack that initially looked like it was done by the Winter Soldier but is really carried out by a former Sokovian special forces soldier who is seeking to destroy the Avengers for indirectly killing his family. Civil War has probably the coolest fight scene of the series at a German airport. The newbies Black Panther and Spider-Man are a sight to see. And there is a twist ending that’s really heart wrenching that splits our two main Avengers in Iron Man and Captain America.
#3 - Avengers: Endgame (2019)
I reviewed this a few months ago, so I’ll provide the link to my review here. What I will discuss here is how great this movie is. I almost put this at number 1. The storytelling and the conclusion to many of the main characters is so satisfying as a fan. It just felt so good to watch. I may rank this higher if I ever revisit the Infinity Saga, but for now I think top three at the very least is very very good. And it is the most satisfying ending to a movie series since The Dark Knight Rises. But I placed the other two above it for the reasons I will outline.
#2 (1) - Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
Wow. For so long this has been my favorite MCU movie and probably still is. We see Cap and Black Widow running from SHIELD, out to hunt down the Winter Soldier for the assassination of Nick Fury. Out of all the MCU, this movie had a modern real world feel with its questions about how to determine whether or not someone is a threat. It kind of revisits a concept dealt with in Minority Report, whether someone’s free will determines their criminality or their preconceived conditions. It had great action sequences. And it defined the direction of the MCU with its revelation that Hydra was secretly controlling SHIELD for all those years. In this installment in the MCU, we see the possibility of how these movies can be dealt. There can be genre movies within the comic book genre. This was the political spy thriller of the MCU, in the same vein as some of those political thrillers of the 1970s. And as it pertains to the bigger Infinity Saga story, we find out Steve Roger’s old buddy Bucky is the infamous assassin The Winter Soldier. And we get the introduction of Sam Wilson, the Falcon.
#1 - Avengers: Infinity War (2018)
I never got to review this when it initially came out. This is basically a Thanos movie disguised and named as an Avengers movie. The best MCU villains have the most fleshed out backstories, and in Infinity War we get Thanos’ background, how his world collapsed and how he came about his reasoning behind wanting to eliminate half of the universe’s inhabitants. You see his rational, and even though he goes about things the wrong way (I mean, he is a villain), you get to see his reasoning and motivation behind his quest. For this alone, I felt compelled to rank it number one just because of how different the approach was and how effective the execution turned out.
Then, inter-spliced with Thanos’ story is the present day struggle. The beginning of the movie we see the destroyed Asgardian ship with Thanos and his disciples taking out most of the leadership, but not before Heimdall uses the Bifrost to get Hulk back to Earth. We see Heimdall and Loki die and Thor left for dead before Thanos moves on with the Space Stone and already in possession of the Power Stone.
The story builds toward two separate teams. The space team with Iron Man, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, Nebula, and the Guardians minus Rocket and Groot defend the Time Stone with the ultimate face off with Thanos on the collapsed planet Titan. Before that, Thanos had a skirmish with the Guardians on Knowhere before ultimately obtaining the Reality Stone from the Collector, kidnapping Gamora in the process. Thanos killed Gamora on the planet Vormir to obtain the Soul Stone. Before the fight on Titan, Dr. Strange looks into the future and sees 14 million possible outcomes and only one where they win. The Earth team with Captain America, Falcon, Black Widow, War Machine, Bruce Banner, Scarlett Witch, Vision, Black Panther, and the Wakandan military protect Vision while Shuri tries to unlink the Mind Stone to destroy without harming Vision while battling the Chitauri and some of Thanos’ disciples in Wakanda with Thor, Rocket, and Groot dropping in toward the end.
The space team almost grabs the gauntlet from Thanos but ultimately fail (partly due to Peter Quill’s temper after finding out Gamora was killed by Thanos). Thanos then descends to Earth into Wakanda and some of the Earth team, in particular Captain America holds him off long enough for Scarlett Witch to destroy the Mind Stone, killing her love Vision. But Thanos uses the Time Stone to turn Vision back long enough to restore the Mind Stone and obtain the last stone he was searching for. Right before he is able to snap his gauntlet fingers, Thor drops down with his new ax Stormbreaker, thrusting the ax into Thanos’ chest. But Thanos is still able to snap his fingers, dusting half the population of the universe including some of our heroes: in particular Black Panther, most of the Guardians, Dr. Strange, and, in probably the most emotional scene outside of Endgame, Spider-Man.
If you were a moviegoer in a previous era and didn’t know they were already shooting Spider-Man: Far From Home, the impact of The Snap would have resonated so much more. Even in this era, though, the ending of the film was sharp, jarring, and effective.
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That’s my list! I may revisit years down the line, and some of these movies may age better than others. But I feel pretty comfortable about where these movies ended up. Let me know what you think! And enjoy the home release of Avengers: Endgame!
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