#but being bi Gen X is harder than you think

[very-distinctive-eliot]

OK so...

... can we all agree that there's no heterosexual explanation for Eliot Spencer? Like, at all? No matter how much he may try so fucking hard.

The man has comphet like whoa. Like, full on, Gen X comphet and my god could you imagine what could happen if he just realized it??

[daisymylove]

Hey can we discuss the lack of sapphic representation on the tsc chronicles and why I think we're too harsh on cc for it? I'm a queer woman btw, nit that should matter tho

In the past I briefly entertained the idea of CC being bi and private about it bc being married to someone of the opposite sex affords you the assumption of heterosexuality and she just didn't want the public scrutiny.80% of the cast of swordcatcher being bi is what mostly made me think about it, but now I'm 100% convinced she's a a straight girl with a shit ton of queer friends and is a staunch supporter of the community and her work reflects that in many ways

She has a total of two sapphic couples so far, and I think there are two main reasons for that

First and foremost bc we live in a patriarchal capitalistic hellscape and male gay couples sell considerably more than female amongst an audience composed mostly of girls and gay boys, so she would be urged by her agent to favour that kind of rep, its only natural.

But the second and perhaps most important reason is that she, as a straight woman, doesn't understand what it feels like to desire a woman sexually, a relationship that doesnt involve a man is foreign to her (lets also not forget she is a gen x, shes fantastically open mided for that age bracket) so its not that she doesnt want to include it, but she has a harder time writing about it than, say, two men desiring each other, which is common place for her as a person attracted to men.On that note, that's why we should hype the works of queer women

Maybe it's naive on my part, but I genuinely think that woman loves the gays in general, she decided edwardian london wouldn't be homophobic anymore cause she felt like it, in her new world everyone is gay and thats not taboo.What I do complain about is the lack of female deep friendships and parabatai duos. She has plenty of female friends, she knows what it's like, so there are no excuses.I have high hopes for thais and dru, they are the all female parabatai duo we deserved ( Cordelia and Lucie weren't really friends.Matthew, who wanted to fuck her from day one, ended up being more of a friend to cordelia than her future parabatai, and if lucie had a bff in the series, that person was Grace, so yuck)

[scriptlgbt]

Avoiding Queerbaiting Question

I will say so right off now. I am not asking about LGBT characters but, I had wrote which feel gay, hints to feel gay and someone was accused me of queerbaiting.

I am come from two cultures that have parents to much involve on marriage, and to this day, we get parental approval for utmost respect. Some parents still find dates for children, and also have arranged marriages. I am personally knowing people who become oust by family for just love or marry the spouse without approval or become stuck in the marriage they don't want but just accept by culture or because of much fear of social they can't got out.

Unfortunately, but I write stories in the western culture and write the parent do not like your partner or spousee, even about mere dating. Even though I make the straight relationship as clear, people said undertones are feels like gay people's thoughts, like parents do not approve the relationship because gay or gay person marry straight person and stuck up in it.

Help please. What can I do? There must got some nuance I write? What?

Answer

I haven't read your work so I will admit I could be wrong about this, but this strikes me that the audience not understanding your experiences that lead you to write this way.

I think in general it's not unheard of for parents western-ish cultures to disapprove of someone who their child is dating, but I think it used to be more common than it currently is. I know there are TV shows from 2005 where this was a common plotline. I think this was an experience that my parents generation had (baby boomer/gen x cusp), but not something I've really dealt with. Even as a queer person. My mom was not great at understanding my being queer and trans when I came out (I'm not sure how much she understands it now), but the few times I have encountered her in my adulthood while I had a partner, my mom has seen my partner as family. But that's my own experience, and it's not reflective of everyone's.

I think when it comes to people in western cultures or cultures otherwise influenced by western colonialism, I think disapproval of children's partners tends to not manifest as being very obvious. I think parents are more careful about not saying it outright if they do not like or approve of a partner, because that disapproval would probably add tension to the relationship.

I see more often that friends from diaspora cultures will have parents that want them to marry in the culture though, because it is their perceived way of keeping their culture alive. Especially if there is a language barrier between the parents and the partner, or if the partner is not willing to learn the language for their partner and their family. A lot of conflict can arise during weddings too if someone is expected to compromise on a tradition. These sorts of things are a big deal to a lot of people.

I feel like with what you're going for, it might help to have it be said in dialogue that the characters are straight somewhat early on. Maybe something like, "I can't imagine how much harder this would be if I weren't straight." Or hearing about some other story about a non-straight character having a different experience and saying something like, "it's not the same, but I relate to this as a straight person."

I think it needs to be specifically named because there are bi people (among many other orientations) who may date someone of a different gender, but may be attracted to other genders too.

Something I might also look into, is writing a story where a character surrounded by western culture has parents who are from your own culture, or one like your own culture. Or maybe they have a religion that leads them to feel pressured to prioritize dating other people in that religion.

Maybe there are issues around citizenship or religion membership of potential children. For example, some Jewish beliefs state that a child is only Jewish if their mother is Jewish. For some Indigenous nations here, there are different types of nation membership and forms of legal status. Those things can affect whether you are allowed to live on a reserve, your rights to fish in the lake your family has fished in since the beginning of time, and even if your children are allowed to inherit that from you if you marry someone with less "status" than you. There are also families who don't have any disabilities who might be harsh about their child chosing a partner who might be disabled. Maybe the parents disapprove because they would have to learn sign language to include the partner at family events. Maybe the parents don't like how difficult it is to make sure places they go to eat have ramps for a partner with a wheelchair.

I wouldn't write the experiences of any marginalized group you don't know into the main plot of something unless you have help with it from people who are part of those groups though, just because there's some things you might miss or not realize the implications of.

I hope this helps give some idea?

mod nat

[thoughtlessthinkythoughts]

Why your bisexual, polyamorous, down for anything utopia is actually exclusionary as hell

*and also manages to be aphobic, homophobic, and biphobic all at once

So, there’s been a post going around that imagines what the world could look like in a more queer friendly future. It posits that in an ideal, prejudice free world, most people would identify as bisexual, and being straight or gay would be considered slightly odd, limiting, and boring. The post doesn’t even acknowledge that ace or aro people exist. The general theory is that if there were nothing to stop people, almost everyone would be interested in having sex with almost everyone else.

Now, this idea isn’t new. Look up Free Love Future on TVTropes and you will see a ton of entries. If you’ve seen Doctor Who, it is basically the Jack Harkness vision of what the future could look like. So, I’m less responding to the specific post I saw and more to this concept of the free love, everyone is bi future as an ideal. There’s quite a few reasons this idea is appealing to people, which I’ll get into. But there are also a lot of reasons why it actually incredibly limiting and misses the beauty of the diversity of queer experiences.

First, why do people like these sorts of tropes? Well, I think it is fair to say that more people would identify as something under the LGBTQIA+ umbrella if doing so was completely accepted. You can see a definite trend in statistics comparing Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z that as society has become more accepting, more and more people are categorizing themselves as something other than cishet. It’s also definitely true that sexual behavior (distinct from sexual identity) can be influenced by societal norms. So, a future where significantly fewer people ID as straight or only have sex with one gender does feel plausible. People want to imagine a future where straight isn’t the assumption, and that I completely can get behind.

But this image of the future isn’t any sort of queer utopia. It’s just creating a different norm, one where the standard is that almost everyone is interested in almost everyone, and those that aren’t are the weird ones. This vision excludes huge numbers of people from being considered part of the norm. It’s a future where there would still be enormous pressure to conform to a set standard of sexual behavior. One where considering people different or odd for having certain identities is still seen as fine and dandy. And that doesn’t sound like a queer friendly future to me.

Let’s start with the ace and aro phobia. If people who “limit” themselves to one gender are considered boring in this future, imagine what people would think of those of us who’s answer to either sex, romance, or both is “no thanks.” This future might be even harder on aces and aros than our modern day is. Now, I can see someone trying to argue that this vision of the future actually does a fair bit to knock down amatonormativity...but does it? Sure, in this vision, monogamous relationships perhaps aren’t the norm and the nuclear family may be less of a basis for society. But it is still creating a norm about what relationships should look like. It’s creating a norm around how much and what kinds of sex people should be having. It’s still leaving anyone who doesn’t want those things an outcast.

It also seems to imply that the main reason people exclude certain others as potential partners is repression or societal expectations. Now, I imagine aces, aros, gays and lesbians, and anyone who has ever dealt with someone who doesn’t understand that you are not fucking interested in them can understand why this assumption leads to mountains and mountains of bullshit.

This idea is homophobic. It says to every gay person “actually, the fact that you aren’t interested in other genders is weird. How does that work, anyway?” How the hell is that a vision of progress?

I’d also argue the idea is biphobic, and in many ways it is similar to the idea that any immortal would eventually end up being bisexual. How can an idea that most people would be bi if only they were free from societal constraints be biphobic? Well, how many bi people have had their identity treated as less valid or less queer because “isn’t everyone a little bit bi?” Treating bisexuality as the inevitable result of time or sexual freedom is refusing to treat it as a unique identity.

There’s also the fact that these sorts of hypothetical futures tend to take the concepts of bisexuality, polyamory, and being down for anything and assume that these categories completely overlap. Now, obviously some people fit into all of them, but not everyone does.

Again, I get where this is coming from. A lot of it is coming from a desire to not be judged if all of these categories happen to apply to you. Some of it is also pure wish fulfillment - some people just like the idea of a future where everyone is having lots of casual, judgment free sex because they would like that. And an ideal future should absolutely be judgment free - but that means not creating a new set of expectations, ones that feed into some pretty common stereotypes.

How many monogamous bi people have had their ability to stay faithful to a single partner called into question? How many bi people have had to fight the idea that they must be promiscuous.

For that matter, how many poly people have had to fight the idea that being poly always means an open relationships or promiscuity? How many people have to fight the idea that an open relationship means they’ll sleep with anyone? This proposed bisexual, free love utopia actually feeds into a bunch of shitty stereotypes and doesn’t include a lot of the people it was meant to.

Here’s the take home message. Don’t imagine a world where one particular type of queerness and one particular model for sexual behavior is considered the norm. Imagine instead a world where there are no assumptions, no expectations, and no judgment surrounding sex, romance, and identity. Where all orientations or identities are welcome. If your dream of a queer friendly future is to create a new restrictive norm and ostracize a slightly different set of people than our current society does, your dream is shit.

[robotslenderman]

Ewww getting big privileged homophobe vibes from you. Blocking now.

Thank God.

I doubt you'll ever read this, but just in case hate-reading is your thing - I don't know why you bothered with anon. You're obviously not a follower because I talk about how queer I am here ALL THE TIME. I saw many queerphobes on that queer post, and even visited a few of their blogs. (Most of them were TERFs, except one - you, who claimed to be a trans dude. Maybe you are! Maybe you're not a TERF posing as a trans dude and you really are okay with being part of a movement absolutely dominated by TERFs!)

But there was only one that I left a comment on. You'd posted about how queer people are so horrible to call ourselves queer. Like the anthropomorphic personification of class and tact that I am, I trolled you by asking if my queer presence made you uncomfortable.

Clearly, it did. :)

So go ahead. Call me the first mean name that comes to your head, as if it bothered me what a random totally-not-anon thinks I am. I'm totally fine with queerphobes thinking my existence is homophobic, because the only way they'd understand otherwise is if I pretended I wasn't queer. My alleged homophobia is latched on to my identity as a queer person. The only way you would not accuse me of being homophobic is if I stopped calling myself queer.

So you use my very identity as a weapon against me. I am queer, and I am attached to not being a homophobe. You know that queer people do not want to be perceived as something they hate completely by anyone, strangers included, especially on a website where people harass first and listen later (if at all). So you hold us hostage - deny our queerness, and you'll drop your weapon. You'll drop the word "homophobic" and stop pointing it at me.

I'm not gonna cave to this.

Nor am I going to write an outraged essay about how I'm not homophobic. You know perfectly fucking well that not a SINGLE queer person is straight. You know perfectly fucking well that most queer people are same sex attracted or attracted to enbies. You know perfectly fucking well that queer people have accepted that part of us and aren't dealing with internalised homophobia or inflicting it on other people because we ACKNOWLEDGE our queerness and you can see this, otherwise you wouldn't be getting mad about it. In a homophobic society everyone has a degree of it, but by being what we are we have less of it than the great majority.

You know this perfectly well. Don't fucking pretend otherwise, I would have to believe that you are well and truly and sincerely STUPID to think for one second that you think I'm a straight person or a closeted gay person who's lashing out with malicious homophobia. Real homophobia, not "this person is part of a minority I am bigoted against, so I will claim they are inherently homophobic unless they get back in the closet or categorise themself in a way that allows me to fine tune my bigotry appropriately."

Because let's be real. Queer hasn't been used as a slur in decades and was reclaimed before I was even born. "Gay" was the slur of the time when I was growing up, but people like you never had a problem with that. Why? Because gay is clear cut and well defined. The problem people like you have with queers like me - the REAL problem, not the faux outraged you have made up about my label - is that queer means I have declined your insistence to more accurately categorise myself.

I mean, how else would you know specifically how to treat me? I could be bi and you might hate bi people, but if I'm a gay queer you don't want to aim the wrong type of bigotry at me by mistake - not because you care about gay people (you don't, because many gay people are also queer), but because you don't want to make yourself look silly by aiming the wrong type of bigotry at me. I could be queer because I'm an enby, and maybe you're truescum that would despise me for it, but you don't KNOW whether or not I'm an enby and that drives you mad! You don't want to risk alienating people who care about you by shitting on someone they might not agree is an acceptable target, so you target every queer and claim it's about a word when really, many queer people seek refugee under that term to hide from people like you, and you don't like that we can hide from you, so you try to strip our shelter away from us.

(And let's be honest. You probably don't even actually hate us. You're probably just afraid. Afraid of some identity you don't really understand because you've never taken the time to get to know us, or afraid that society will accept you less if we're "competing" for acceptance and so take some of the spotlight... I won't shit on you for fear, anon. We are all afraid of something. But I absolutely have a problem with how you're choosing to knowingly hurt people to cope with it. You called me "homophobe" to hurt me. There was no other way to possibly interpret the context of what you were saying. You meant to do this.)

So take away queer. Take away the shelter of queer. Force every queer person to divulge, upfront, who they are that makes them friends with queer. Force them out of the closet and pretend THAT'S not homophobic.

Send the gay queers back to the L and G of LGBT, let the TERFs flush out the trans people who are queer because they're trans* and shoo them away from LGBTQ spaces. Or maybe you really are trans, but you want to kick out straight trans people, or enbies, or pan people, or bi people, or ace people, or, one of the many populations that make up the true queer community.

* Not all trans people are queer, but many are BECAUSE they're trans. I would say "many are queer because they identify as queer" because that makes it sound like queerness isn't an inherent part of who we are and gives people like you ammo I have no interest in supplying you with. "Aha! So you CHOOSE to be a slur!" I just know you'd completely ignore everything I said to the contrary and say that.

Yes. The true queer community.

We've told you again and again that we're not calling you queer. We've told you again and again, if you're not queer, you're not part of the queer community. You're LGBT+, not queer. I'm not part of the LGBT+ community, I'm part of the queer community.

The queer community is not the true community of people who aren't straight and cis, that's not what I'm saying. We're not any more or less LGBT+ than you. I'm not invalidating the identities of people who aren't straight and/or cis, because they are who they are, and you don't need to be queer to be LGBT+. But we are the true queer community in that we are queer, and people who are LGBT+ but are not queer are not queer. Only queer people are queer.

("But people use queer community as an umbrella term to mean people who aren't queer, but are still LGBT+!" Buddy, if I have to deal with being called LGBT all the time even though it's not true, while having the people who use LGBT obviously mean me too because I'm not straight, then you can live with it too. That's mostly straights doing that, in which case you have no reason to get mad at US, or people who are are making something for a straight audience or a questioning audience, in which case they're making it accessible because not everyone knows the nuance of queer and LGBTALPHABETSOUP discourse. Or even - and I know this thought is incomprehensible to you, as the centre of the universe - it's actually referring to queer people and queer people only, not LGBT+ who aren't queer. Actually, I love that idea! Queer history is now history of queer people, no non-queer LGBT+ allowed :D)

I've never felt LGBT+ even when I thought I was one of the main four letters. But I've always felt queer, even as my understanding of my specific brand of queerness changed. Queer is an umbrella term that is opt in, that covers any and all LGBT+ people who know they are queer too, who know they're one of us, or who simply choose to call themselves queer for whatever fucking reason they want. Some of us are intrinsically queer, some choose to be queer because of the inclusiveness or relative opacity of the term, and you don't know which one a queer person is unless you have earned our trust enough for us to tell you.

And people like you fucking hate that.

So you know what?

I'm totally fine with you calling me a homophobe because the people who actually know more about me than the few sentences I've given you know that that's a joke, and their good opinion matters more to me than yours.

I'm totally fine with you calling me a homophobe because because it means I've won. I've gotten under your skin, just as your bigotry got right under mine. You're furious you can't categorise me. You're pissed off that I could be one of the LGBT+ people you actively dislike and want out of the LGBT+ community, but are finding a hell of a lot harder to flush out of the queer community because we all look the same at first glance and refuse to give you information you feel entitled to. Because it's easy to force people out of the closet in the LGBT+ community, but much fucking harder in a meritocracy like the queer community. To get into the LGBT+ community, you have to tell them which one you are. Queer? No questions asked, cause you already told us all we needed to know! Welcome home!

But let's say this is all a strawman.

That you really are some well meaning person who has nothing against the more obscure queer identities and that you really do just have a problem with the word. That you truly do think that queer people, the great majority of which experience same sex attraction, are... somehow... homophobic just for using the word despite their advocacy against homophobia and total acceptance of that aspect of themselves and others. That our fight for marriage equality and employment and housing protections and human rights is rendered COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IRRELEVANT because we used a word that Boomers and even some of gen X hurled at each other because a guy was a little bit girly, or a girl refused to grow her hair long, or because men were scared that a man would treat them the way they treated women. (Because queer as an archaic slur, ultimately, comes from misogyny as much as homophobia.)

Let's say you really do mean well and really do know people who were called queers instead of fags, or you really did grow up hearing "that is so queer" to describe things people didn't like, or you really did have "queer" hurled at you by straight people as if there was something wrong with you for not being cis and straight.

(Notice something, there? You probably haven't actually experienced any of that, nor anyone you know. This wank about who I am as a queer person - it's always aimed at us. Never the straights that used it against us. Nobody uses the word queer except queer people any more, I am 99% certain that you don't know ANYBODY who has had it thrown at them AS a slur, so that means that the only people you can target on your crusade are... gender and sexual minorities. Not cis/straight people. Because they're not calling us queers and haven't in decades.

That means you are knowingly targeting minorities over this EXCLUSIVELY, I am completely fucking certain..

... but I'M the homophobe?)

In which case all I can say is: I hope that the well-meaningness that's made you put this hateful thing into my inbox, that's made you say such hateful things to a minority because of their identity (there's a word for treating people differently because they're a minority, especially hostile treatment..), will outshine the hatefulness of what you're saying and lead you to a better way to express your desire to protect people.

If you truly are coming from a misplaced belief that we're somehow deprecating ourselves by being queer, and not a desire to force us out of the closet or to run off any gender or sexual minority, then I apologise for my hostility, acknowledge that learning takes time (and patience that I am unable to give, for I am tired of bad actors pretending they're not and cannot do it), and wish you the best in learning to be inclusive and loving so we can count you one day, at least, as a friend of us queer folk. Maybe one day we'll even welcome you as one of us. I'd love to do that more than I'd like to deal with THIS crap. I can't imagine me going off on you will have helped at all, but from in my experience people who want to protect gender and sexual minorities protect them. They don't target them. That's why I am writing this post under the assumption that you wrote this because you have bad intentions towards me as a queer person, and not out of a well meaning desire to protect anyone you think I've somehow hurt by being me.

In which case? Get fucked.

[ajokeformur-ray]

A concept: Joker headcanons for him with an extremely ticklish s/o before and after his Joker transformation.

Arthur’s reaction to his finding out that you’re extremely ticklish largely depends on whether or not you like being tickled.

If you’re like me and you warn people against it, then he would heed your warning and take it for what it is.

He wouldn’t tickle you on purpose, in this case, though late at night when his hands are trailing down the expanse of your back, his fingers tapping out a beat which only he can hear (and you’re now clued in on, so great is his trust in you), that occasionally you jerk away from him, an unhappy and slightly panicked giggle escaping your throat.

Arthur’s hands would leave you like he had burned you, and there would be hushed apologies and the beginnings of a laughing fit before he calms down because you both know he didn’t mean it. He’s unaware of how light and gentle his touch can be in the quieter moments of the day.

If, however, you do like being tickled, then, honey… you can expect tickling to be a part of your daily routine.

Laughter when you’re being tickled is actually a panic response, and though Arthur is loathe to see and hear anything other than happiness on your face, he wonders at the body’s natural reaction to something which is perceived to be a threat.

He’ll be hugging you and his fingers will dig into your hips, his smile growing in anticipation before he’s even touched you.

If either of you aren’t feeling good and he needs to see you smile, then he’ll tickle you until he sees you really smile, with your eyes turning into crescents and sinking into your cheeks from such a wide expression.

Your smile and your laughter is medicinal for his soul and soothing for his heart; it’s always you that brings a smile to Arthur’s face.

He’ll always personally observe your boundaries though - when you’re not in the mood, you’re not in the mood, and so he wouldn’t ever push anything.

Arthur would always ask for permission in non-verbal ways and he would take his answer from you in much the same way - his fingers would dance across your skin and you either nod or shake your head.

If he’s unsure, for sometimes it’s hard to take non-verbal cues when his head is both so full and yet so empty, he’ll stutter out a “d-did I read that right, can - can I - can I tickle you? Please?”

Generally speaking, Arthur always touches you very delicately. It’s like he treats you like you’re made of glass or like he thinks touching you will just result in his fingers gripping the cold, empty air because you’re just another delusion.

Sometimes, he’ll reach out to touch you in the night and he’ll be so careful that you somehow both jolt away from him and your body curves into him.

If he apologies with a murmured, “sorry”, it was an accident.

If he doesn’t, then it was intentional and he will have a mischievous glint in his eye which belies his true motive:

Hearing you laugh.

Always, always, does he want to hear you laugh. To Arthur, nothing is more beautiful than that.

As he goes further and further down the path into becoming his future self, Arthur becomes more adept at correctly reading and interpreting your non-verbal signs and he stops asking.

He starts to tickle you as he walks past you; his fingers digging into your armpits or your hips, or even the way he touches you; trailing his fingers down your bare skin so lightly that you shiver and a smile comes to your face.

Whether you like being tickled or not, it’s inevitable when you’re already extremely ticklish.

He’s such a wholesome, tender person that he almost always initially tickles you when he reaches out for you.

Even when he’s Joker, he loves you so fiercely that even your worst of days seem to melt away when you’re with him.

Joker will reach out to you to tug you onto his lap when he’s sat on the sofa watching the news, and his fingers will dig just right into your hips.

You squirm, giggle, and he says, “Sorry”, but his voice is thick with smugness.

“You’re not sorry at all, you liar,” A teasing statement as with your back to his chest, does Joker rest his chin on your shoulder, his arms around your waist. You bring a hand up to interlock your fingers together and you squeeze. He squeezes back harder and both of you hear the silent exchange for what it is: I love you // I love you, too.

A pleased giggle. “You’re right. I’m not.”

Non-verbal cues, conversations and messages are a large part of your relationship, now.

With Arthur, everything had to be spoken aloud even as you carried out those actions so that there was no way he could doubt them.

With Joker, it’s all about your actions.

There’s no greater sign of trust to Arthur than allowing him small moments with you like this, no matter who he’s forced to become, and as someone who is extremely ticklish, well… it gives him an all too convenient reason to pull you close, doesn’t it?

The Arthur Fleck/Joker Defense Squad @writings-of-a-gen-z                      @x-avantgarde-x       @insomniabird      @mavalenovaninagavi     @itwasrealenough     @morrisonmercurymalek     @rand0ms-fand0ms     @rafaelina-casillas     @aclownthing       @vivft                                          @help-i-am-obssessed      @autumnaffection       @taintednihilist   @vladtoly   @mg-woolf99      @misstgrey92   @dopey-fandom-girl         @seeking-dreamland      @sweetheart-syndrome      @heartxfdesire     @xmusichealsthesoulx       @0callmejude0      @the-one-that-likes-riddles        @hannibalsslut       @folliaght            @freeeshavacadoo         @bingewatchingmylifegoby       @unlovedbyeveryoneandeverything @okamiredfoxx       @sp0okysp0oky  @the-pandorabox      @mardema @jibanyyan        @honeyflvredcoughdrop         @emissarydecksetter @jokerfleckk         @epidendroideae         @chuuntas          @stillmabel       @pumpkinpeyes       @onehystericalqueenposts          @the-jokers-wolf       @nalsswa  @justahyena       @arianatheangelworld  @soullessblondbitch @gothamslittlejester  @twentyonestarrynights  @sirianfromsixties @kissmeclownman    @joker-is-my-hero  @lazyloosah  @lovesickkloxx @ladylovelyluna      @live-love-loki  @clownerybbxx   @tragicarthur    @anmach123      @rommie-chan      @arthurflock     @lucyboytom              @anti-peach       @immortal-bi-bitch    @hearthurfleck     @jokersproperty     @curlystark     @hailmary-yramliah    @sagyunaro     @playinthedarktillitsgoldenagain     @jokeringcutio      @xenthefox   @mijachula@stcrrynightsinneverlcnd      @cheyennejonas22    @mrjfleck      @pauli1100     @smitten-susie    @actualkey     @callmejokerfleck   @jaylovesbats    @itsforyoubitch      @ridiculousnerd     @killerprotector3579       @soulsdontbreaktheybeeend     @fantasticwinnerclodexpert                  @arthurs-sweater      @pinkie44pie    @tsukiakarinobara      @prettyxlittlexpsychoxprincess   @elodia-gahan   @yours-mia     @parkdonghoons      @lady-carnivals-stuff      @hobi-hobi-kyo-kkyu      @jupiturde        @incognitofish      @j-sux      @nothing-but-a-comedy      @tahliamalfoydepp     @sgtsavoytruffle      @smol-nari       @pocket-clown     @joker-flecked-me      @millandram     @obsessedandthirsty   @holosexualunicorn7000

[soulvomit]

I have some weird thoughts about the strange space I’m in because I grew up when I did. I feel like... in my 30s, there was plenty of overlap with whatever was “The Now” because my normal social spaces had plenty of 20somethings in them, and 20somethings themselves had enough overlap with teen culture. Furthermore, Boomers were by and large still working and still culturally relevant, so there wasn’t this feeling that Gen Xrs were anything remotely approaching old, and weren’t even middle aged.  So there was actually a big cultural blur. And also, my early 40s were very, very different from my mid 40s. There was still plenty of cultural blur zone in terms of age based zeitgeist.  But my 40s are a weird culture shock. I know very few people my own age, except for the clique I left behind in LA, but... as a teenager, I hung out with older kids. They are just enough older than me for me to really feel like there’s a difference between our formative zeitgeists. Just a couple of years in a Gen Xr’s life *matter* - it’s like dog years. There is a vast cultural gulf between a John Hughes-era Xr and a Kevin Smith-era Xr. I suspect that the end of the Cold War and coming of age into a recession, are those big formative milestones. What side of that you turned 18 on, means everything; I feel like, socioeconomically and culturally, Xrs my age have more in common with Millennials than we have with Gen Xrs who are even two years older. EVERYTHING CHANGED. I suspect that Xrs even 2 years older came of age with different expectations and different stretch goals. 

Another thing that’s really weird for me? The whole conversation about privilege actually impacting one as an adult in any way that resembles austerity culture. Like, we didn’t really dissect our privilege at all in any space I was in. There were conversations we had about... yeah of course it was harder to be black, to be LGBTQ, to be poor, etc., but there wasn’t really a Grand Unified Field Theory of Privilege that was being discussed. I honestly don’t know that I would have gotten as far in my 20s in the face of such social censure telling me that I wasn’t entitled to grab everything I was could while the grabbing was good. There were virtually no older people telling me to check my privilege in the career space. At all. In my early 20s I was special and I was a wunderkind and I milked it as long as I could. Sometimes there was stuff that came up in terms of this or that being unfair but it was always framed personally and not in terms of broad privilege conversations. I rarely ran into stuff with women my own age because I rarely worked with women my own age. 

And only older people’s opinions mattered in the 90s, because they were my bosses, landlords, etc. Once I was no longer in school and Average College Student Age, I rarely ever met Gen Xrs my own age. (My birth year is in the demographic called the “Baby Bust.”) Other Gen Xrs had absolutely no social power to police me past my first year of college, and I was absolutely free to discard or dismiss their opinions if I wanted. So... I was shaped by completely different social dynamics. “Getting along with other people” was supposed to be something I did *generally* (i.e., with a broad bunch of diverse people) as opposed to having to meet the social requirements for acceptance of a broad group of people the same age. I think this is a common Gen X experience, tbh. Bay Area LGBTQ culture is really the first place I encountered a lot of the present social dynamics, and university culture, but... it was possible to opt out, and lots of social dynamics at university managed to avoid community college spaces. “Political activity” in my art classes, for a long time, was restricted to the older “goddess” types who painted pictures of uteri; it wasn’t a mainstream thing. I came of age at a time when the only politicized subculture (if you were white) *was* pretty much just the LGBTQ community.  (There does need to be some unpacking about being bi here, because I’ve never felt *forced* to solely live in LGBTQ culture. That said, as a gender nonconforming person who was more comfortable in male spaces and was relatively accepted in the male spaces I was in, I felt like I *already* had a safe space.)   It’s actually spaces like AOL and then PlanetOut and Technodyke and it was online based dating spaces that made it totally possible to opt out of what was going on in young Bay Area LGBTQ culture. 

[ajokeformur-ray]

gary focused hc where he becomes as rich as thomas wayne because: 1) you paid him so when you go to the haha after finding artie's journal, knowing he likes you, gary can make comments about what artie always says about you, making you 'know' it right in front of him 2) artie paid him because he needed help to confess his feelings to you 3) hoyt paid him to help him making artie happy so he would not be such a freak anymore 4) randall lost a bet with him about you and arthur ending together

Sksksksk I had so much fun with this one lmaoooooooo

Not really feeling up to writing tonight, I’m so tired, but I don’t want to disappoint anyone so I hope the quality isn’t affected!

No pronouns used so it’s as inclusive as I can make it!

With the year drawing to a close was it harder to land gigs at Ha-Ha’s.

Money was tight for everyone and hiring men to be clowns at events, male strippers or other was one of the lesser priorities on people’s mind as they worked multiple jobs but still struggled to make the rent.

Despite this, yourself and several members of the establishment had created and were running a betting pool on the strangest, most wonderful bet:

How long it’d take Arthur Fleck to confess his feelings to you.

Gary, for all he’s ridiculed, is often able to fade into the background unseen by the others.

Just like Arthur, he’s socially ostracised for reasons beyond his control. 

As such, he hears conversations, little snippets here and there, and he can put everything together easily.

There was a huge opportunity to make some money here and Gary was quick to put his plan into action using what he knew from other people.

You had read Arthur’s journal one night and you had found pages upon pages of writing.

Scribbles of things he wanted to tell you, jokes he wanted to remember especially for you, crude drawings of things he wanted to do to you…

It was a good seventeen pages before you stopped reading; your body aflame.

There was more, a quick skimming session revealed, but you couldn’t stand anymore.

It prompted you to act, but not on your own.

You were having too much fun to confess to Arthur that you knew how he felt about you, and Arthur was much too shy to ever tell you himself.

This was where Gary came in.

Being as friendly as he is, Gary is able to strike up and hold conversations with anyone.

“Hey, Gary? Can you do me a favour tomorrow afternoon when Arthur gets off work?”

“What do you need?”

“I’ll give you $10 if you make comments about the kinds of things Arthur has said about me as I’m coming into the main work room; make it so that, as I’m coming in, you’re finishing your sentence so Arthur sees me at the same time.”

“Okay…?”

Unbeknown to you, Arthur had already given Gary $10 for a similar reason.

Arthur didn’t have $10 but the two men had an understanding with one another; which meant that Gary would likely be given one of Arthur’s gigs to make up for it.

 Money was money so Gary wasn’t too fussed about the payment method.

Arthur’s reason for ‘hiring’ Gary was for him to help Arthur confess to you.

So now Gary had an extra gig and $10 for doing the same job for two different people.

Randall, ever the slimy bastard, had listened in on your conversations with Gary as you planned this ‘accidental’ moment with each other, and he decided to place a bet on it.

That Arthur would fail miserably, and you, his love interest, would rebuke Arthur’s advances.

Gary knew before he agreed to the bet with Randall that Randall would lose, but Randall didn’t and, being greedy, he placed a $20 bet.

Gary snapped that one up too.

And he’s not stupid - he got Randall to do an advance $10 payment and $10 for later.

Somehow through the grapevine did Hoyt hear about all this (the trials of working in a small place where everyone knows everything about everyone) and he slipped some extra money into Gary’s paycheck 

"Make that freak happy, you got that? Can’t have him stinkin’ up the place.”

A horrible reason to join in, but it’d turn out all right in the end.

All these plans, monies exchanging hands etc later and Gary is now much richer than he was a week ago.

Of course, in Gotham’s economy, the money will go as soon as he knows he has it, but who cares?

The big day arrives.

Gary hides his excitement and trepidation well, all things considered, but then - 

No one pays much attention to him anyway so it wouldn’t make much difference.

5 PM rolls around and Arthur shuffles into the main work room, tired and weary and longing for sleep and for you, the literal angel in his life.

Gary clears his throat, drawing Arthur’s attention from where he’s sat on the benches, and eyes Arthur meaningfully.

A slow nod from our boi to show understanding, a smile tugging at his lips.

The sound of someone coming up the steep concrete stairs.

“Gary,” Arthur would hiss through his teeth, a blush already spreading across his face.

“Easy, Arthur.” A low murmur, a quick smile as Gary breathes in, says louder, “So when are you gonna tell Y/N that you have feelings for them?”

Perfect timing.

Nicely done, Gary, you shoot him a smile as Arthur freezes and turns slowly, so slowly.

Somehow did he know that you were there even without you saying anything.

You’d barely gotten into the room.

“You just did,” Arthur would sigh and turn carefully, keeping his eyes down on the floor, the light blush on his face deepening the longer the two of you are just standing there.

Gary, instinctively knowing what to do, and goes to leave… unnoticed.

Like always.

Until you put your hand on his shoulder on the way past and slip him way more than $10.

He tries to protest, to give it back, but you look at him, you really look at him, and you shake your head. 

You smile, pat his shoulder, and walk past him to stand behind Arthur.

Gary stops for just a moment to watch you wind your arms around Arthur’s neck, your hands locked around his chest, and you press a tender kiss to Arthur’s cheek.

“I already know how you feel about me, Artie. You gotta know it’s the same for me.”

The way you’re looking at Arthur, the way you know how to calm down his laughter - Gary is the only one who doesn’t think that Arthur is a freak - why, Gary can see why you’re so taken with one another.

He smiles sadly and leaves the main room, almost colliding with Randall in the small, crowded corridor.

“So? Did the freak take the bait?”

“Yeah. Cough it up, Randall.”

“Son of a - “

More money exchanges hands in the next five minutes, all of it going to Gary, than he knows what to do with.

Oh, well…

He’s sure he’ll find something to do with it in chuckletown.

The Arthur Fleck/Joker Defense Squad @writings-of-a-gen-z                      @x-avantgarde-x       @insomniabird      @mavalenovaninagavi     @itwasrealenough     @morrisonmercurymalek     @rand0ms-fand0ms     @rafaelina-casillas     @aclownthing      @rebs-doom      @vivft                  @help-i-am-obssessed      @autumnaffection       @taintednihilist   @vladtoly   @mg-woolf99      @misstgrey92  @that-s-life   @dopey-girl-blogs         @seeking-dreamland      @sweetheart-syndrome      @heartxfdesire @xmusichealsthesoulx       @0callmejude0      @the-one-that-likes-riddles        @hannibalsslut       @folliaght            @freeeshavacadoo         @bingewatchingmylifegoby       @unlovedbyeveryoneandeverything @okamiredfoxx       @sp0okysp0oky  @the-pandorabox      @mardema @jibanyyan        @honeyflvredcoughdrop         @emissarydecksetter @jokerfleckk         @epidendroideae         @chuuntas          @stillmabel       @pumpkinpeyes       @onehystericalqueenposts       @the-jokers-wolf       @nalsswa  @justahyena       @arianatheangelworld  @soullessblondbitch @gothamslittlejester  @twentyonestarrynights  @sirianfromsixties @kissmeclownman    @joker-is-my-hero  @lazyloosah  @lovesickkloxx @ladylovelyluna      @live-love-loki  @clownerybbxx   @tragicarthur    @anmach123      @rommie-chan      @arthurflock     @lucyboytom              @anti-peach       @immortal-bi-bitch    @hearthurfleck      @crazieroutthere      @curlystark     @hailmary-yramliah    @sagyunaro     @playinthedarktillitsgoldenagain     @jokeringcutio      @xenthefox   @mijachula@stcrrynightsinneverlcnd      @cheyennejonas22    @mrjfleck      @pauli1100     @smitten-susie    @actualkey     @callmejokerfleck   @jaylovesbats    @itsforyoubitch      @ridiculousnerd     @killerprotector3579       @soulsdontbreaktheybeeend     @fantasticwinnerclodexpert                  @arthurs-sweater      @pinkie44pie    @tsukiakarinobara      @prettyxlittlexpsychoxprincess   @elodia-gahan   @yours-mia    @rustyt33th     @parkdonghoons      @lady-carnivals-stuff      @hobi-hobi-kyo-kkyu      @jupiturde        @incognitofish

[ajokeformur-ray]

Lay all your love on me // Joker x Reader // soft comfort for you.

This is the twin piece to Beacon of Hope; I wrote it once again for @rebs-doom​ in the hopes that this will also comfort her. I’m so happy that Arthur’s one helped you! 

Summary: Joker isn’t happy. You’re not okay, and he can’t have that. So he does the only thing he knows how to do - he questions you closely enough that he shatters your already crumbling walls and vows to pick up the pieces with you.

TW; same as Arthur’s one - reader and Joker smoking, swearing, suicidal ideation, dissociation, angst and fluff. Heavy feelings are described here so if this may affect you, then please either read with care or skip this one.

Word count: 1, 373.

Joker leaned against the open bedroom door, his arms folded over his chest and his index finger tapping erratically against his red blazer. You hadn’t noticed him yet. Though you had a preference for lying on the floor over lying on the sofa or the bed, tonight you were doing just that; you were curled up in bed on Joker’s side, a cigarette between your lips and a book in the other hand. The radio played quietly and every now and then would you hum along.

Joker knew that your heart wasn’t in it, though. 

You were just doing what you could to stay distracted from the demons inside your head.

“I make that,” Joker squinted up at the ceiling, mentally tallying up how many cigarettes you had smoked today. Fuck, but your lungs hurt. You felt like you shouldn’t have been smoking this much today but the other part of you really just didn’t care. So you would die young. Fuck it. “Twenty nine cigarettes. You gonna stop at that one?”

“Probably not.” You exhaled as you spoke, your voice a sigh. 

Joker pushed away from the door frame after a tense moment of just staring at you, his eyes seeing far more than you would have thought. To an outsider, he looked like he was curious. In reality, though, he was able to look right into you and see everything that you were trying so hard to hide. He took his time in closing the door, resting his forehead against the cool wood for a moment as he fought himself for some composure. He hated seeing you in so much pain. He turned to you, then, his dyed green strands seeming brighter in the natural light of the room, and said, “Game’s up, sweetheart. You gonna tell me what’s going on in that complex little mind of yours?”

“Nope.” You popped the ‘p’, still staring off into space. Joker was a red blur in your vision and you blinked, caring little for how cold you could be coming across. You had seen each other in worse states, anyway.

Joker narrowed his green oceans. “And why is that?”

Your bottom lip quivered a little and you bit down on it. “Because I’m hanging on by a thread. And I can’t - “ You closed your eyes against the sting of tears and took another deep drag. As you exhaled, a single tear slipped down your cheek, and that was all Joker needed.

In an instant was your cigarette, almost burned down to the filter, plucked unceremoniously from your hand. Joker took a long, deep drag, finishing it off, and he stubbed it out on the bedside table, drawing a smiley face with the smouldering ashes. He made it to the other side of the bed in the same instant, his eyes bloodshot from how hard he was trying not to cry. Your pain had always been his pain; you were so in love with each other, so close mentally and physically, that any emotion either of you felt was felt just as strongly by the other. Laying on each other’s side of the bed, you were reminded of all the intimate conversations that occurred in this room, of all the times you had held one another after a nightmare or all the times you had brought each other to a toe curling orgasm after a long day. Images of your lives together  so far flashed through your mind and as Joker reached out a hand to tuck a strand of hair behind your ear, a broken cry ripped its way out of your throat as your walls finally, finally came crumbling down.

As you began to cry, to really cry, Joker couldn’t help feeling a small amount of pride. He had been the one to break down your walls; sure, it hadn’t taken a sledge hammer but he had had to chip away at you, piece by piece, glance by glance, and now he could see you in your rawest, most vulnerable state. He was so proud of you. His own tears slipped down his painted cheeks, the blue triangles dripping down his face and creating an expression on his face that matched your own. The wide painted smile so greatly contrasted with the tears that you felt, even in your state, that it perfectly encapsulated your Arthur; he laughed when he wanted to cry, he cried when he wanted to laugh; he was so often at odds with himself but now... oh, but now was he free from all that had been holding him down, holding him back. Was it really so bad that he had stepped into himself and gotten comfortable? You didn’t think so.

“I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. I’m so scared that everything is just a joke, that you’re gonna get sick of me and you’re gonna leave. You’re all I have. I don’t want to be alone.”

Facing you as he was, Joker couldn’t stop the tears pouring down his face. They fell hot and fast but he ignored his own tears in favour of wiping yours away. “Everything I do is for you,” he murmured, “to keep you safe and happy. You have been by my side through all of it and that kind of loyalty is something I will never forget. Don’t you see how loved you are?”

You reached out, blinking quickly. The edges of your consciousness flickered back into view and it was with a sudden mental jolt that the room seemed brighter, the sheets under your body suddenly felt warmer and life came flooding back into you as Joker drew you out of your dissociation without even trying. It was unprecedented the effect he had on you. “Please don’t leave me. Please.” As you shifted forward to seek physical comfort did he also move, recognising the signs that you had come back into yourself after days of dissociating and functioning on auto pilot; and your bodies collided together, Joker shoving a leg between yours to anchor you to him. He pulled you so close into his front that not even a sheet of paper could have gotten between your bodies, and as you wrapped your arms around his middle did his hands cup your face. Joker angled your head upwards so that he could kiss all over your face, his lips so soft and gentle against your face that it only made you cry harder as you clutched at his red suit. You were wrinkling it but you didn’t, couldn’t care. Not when he was being so tender and gentle with you. He was so Arthur in moments like this that you were forcibly reminded that they were one and the same person and that Joker was who Arthur had always been. The man you so dearly loved and cherished had always been right beside you.

“I would burn this world to the ground if anyone dared to try and take you from me.” His words, so violent, were at odds with the soft lilt of his voice, the way his bloodshot eyes were looking at you with so much love, the way his lips were kissing away the physical signs of your pain, the way his leg between yours was keeping you attached to him. “You’re all I have.”

You smiled, tears slowing their descent as you gazed at Joker. Gods, but he was beautiful. “You save my life every day.”

Joker’s eyes hardened. His jaw set. His nostrils flared exactly once and his soothing hold on your face tightened minutely. “The next time you feel this way, tell me. I want to be here for you. You’re never alone because you have me.” He tightened his grip on your face just a little more, dipping his head so he could kiss you fully on your lips, his mouth commanding yours. You gave in, sunk into his comforting weight, fell into his touch and allowed Joker to love you just as he always had and always would. 

A promise was made on this night and Joker would hold you to it. He wouldn’t accept anything less than all of you, just as you had accepted all of him.

The Arthur Fleck/Joker Defense Squad @writings-of-a-gen-z  @x-avantgarde-x       @insomniabird  @mavalenovaninagavi  @itwasrealenough  @morrisonmercurymalek  @rand0ms-fand0ms  @rafaelina-casillas @aclownthing  @rebs-doom  @vivft  @help-i-am-obssessed@autumnaffection   @taintednihilist   @vladtoly   @mg-woolf99@misstgrey92  @that-s-life   @dopey-girl-blogs  @seeking-dreamland  @sweetheart-syndrome  @heartxfdesire  @xmusichealsthesoulx  @0callmejude0  @the-one-that-likes-riddles  @hannibalsslut  @folliaght  @freeeshavacadoo  @bingewatchingmylifegoby  @unlovedbyeveryoneandeverything  @okamiredfoxx  @sp0okysp0oky  @the-pandorabox  @mardema  @jibanyyan  @honeyflvredcoughdrop  @emissarydecksetter  @jokerfleckk  @epidendroideae  @chuuntas  @stillmabel  @pumpkinpeyes  @onehystericalqueenposts  @the-jokers-wolf  @nalsswa  @justahyena  @arianatheangelworld  @soullessblondbitch  @gothamslittlejester  @twentyonestarrynights  @sirianfromsixties  @kissmeclownman  @joker-is-my-hero  @lazyloosah  @lovesickkloxx  @ladylovelyluna  @live-love-loki  @clownerybbxx   @tragicarthur    @anmach123     @rommie-chan      @arthurflock     @lucyboytom      @anti-peach     @ immortal-bi-bitch @hearthurfleck      @crazieroutthere      @curlystark     @hailmary-yramliah    @sagyunaro     @playinthedarktillitsgoldenagain