#but also cass and david cain

[vechter]

a guide on being cassandra cain

batgirl (2000) #6 // so i locked myself inside a star for twenty years, jeremy rodin // batman: gotham knights (2000) #2 // quote by @ojibwa (x) // batgirl (2000) #25 // what my bones know: a memoir of healing from complex trauma, stephanie foo // batgirl (2000) #9 // batgirl (2000) #65 // my dark vanessa, kate elizabeth russell // detective comics (1937) #734 // i used to be a hole in the ground, katie maria // batgirl (2000) #34 // batgirl (2000) #73 // unfinished duet, richard siken // things you wanted to say but never did, geloy concepcion // detective comics (2016) #976 // a primer for the small weird loves, richard siken // batgirl (2000) #17 // house is an enigma, emma bolden // batgirl secret files and origins (2002) // batgirl (2000) #45 // cassandra: a novel and four essays, christa wolf // batgirl secret files and origins (2002)

[binglepringle]

Baby Cass :3 (oh and there’s that weird guy too…)

[casscainmainly]

Looking at the notes of that Cass name poll and I don't mind people preferring Black Bat for certain reasons, but saying 'Batgirl is not unique/her own name' is not a good argument to me. Yes, it's not unique; that's the whole point. It's a legacy mantle. The power comes from the fact that Cass is linked, through Batgirl, to the people she cares about most. For a girl who was forcefully isolated, who was denied a name (and therefore denied a legacy), Batgirl is the first thing that was ever hers. And Batgirl is not, and has never been, tied to Bruce; the point of the mantle is women carving out their own spaces, forging their own identities regardless of what others have tried to make them. Saying Batgirl is not a good mantle for Cass is also denying what she brought to the name - under Cass, Batgirl became a legacy mantle. Batgirl irrevocably changed her, and she irrevocably changed Batgirl. Preferring other names is completely fine, but it's important not to undermine what Batgirl meant, and continues to mean, to Cass.

[fantastic-nonsense]

Cain being disappointed in teenage Bruce and telling him "if only I'd gotten hold of you sooner" because he wanted to train an unbeatable warrior who communicates flawlessly through violence and then specifically raising Cass from infancy for that purpose...DAVID CAIN WHEN I CATCH YOU

[deadsetobsessions]

He doesn’t know how they got here, but Jason’s thankful for it. It’s not often that he speaks to Cass, when Jason’s passions are words and righteous murder and Cass’s passions are distinctly not that, but when they do speak, they manage to get along. Somehow.

“So, why don’t you kill?” Jason leans back on the couch, his favorite mug filled with Alfred’s hot chocolate.

Cass is curled against the arm of the sofa. She looks at him, head tilted. Jason knows she’s reading him, but he’s not sure what she’s finding. It’s humbling, and intimidating, to know she sees more than what he allows to show.

“I can see,” she says. “That one time… I killed. I saw. Pain. Fear. Desp- des- not wanting to die.”

“Desperation?”

Cass nods. One of her fingers fiddle with the material of the couch. Jason knows she’s allowing him to see the motion. He knows it’s her silent way of showing him trust.

“There is more. To dying. Like… like they see their lives-They think- remembers. Loves. Their life- regret, love, everything. It goes through-” Cass taps her temple.

“Their lives are flashing through their heads?”

“Yes. Good. Bad. Everything. I see.” Quieter, Cass adds “I know. I know them, then. I killed a life that I know. They love. Everyone, have something they love. I kill, I kill that love.”

“That must suck.”

Cass leans back. She nods, neck releasing their tension and eyes less hunted, more accepting.

“Yes. I don’t want to- I don’t want to be the end.” Cass swivels her shoulders towards him, now. “Why… why do you?”

“Me?” Jason… hasn’t thought about it for a while, nor too deeply. But this is Cass. And her honesty deserves an honest reply. “I kill because some people shouldn’t be left alive to hurt and kill others”

“Not about… Bruce?”

Jason took a sip of his hot chocolate. Cass settled more into the couch, her eyes clear and watchful.

“It used to be,” he admitted. “About him, I mean. It used to be about vengeance. But then I came back to Crime Alley, and then I saw the kids getting hurt instead of being protected. They’re innocent. And then, it wasn’t about Bruce anymore. Killing is just the means to an end now, for me.”

“Do you- not regret?” She makes a gesture at his leg, where on a normal day, his holsters would be.

“I try to make sure I don’t kill people I’d regret, no. Like, you know how sometimes you guys arrest muggers?”

Cass nodded.

“Sometimes,” Jason said, remembering the days of digging through trash for food and the lingering hunger that rumbled through his younger self’s stomach. “They mug people because they’re desperate. I don’t kill those guys. But people deal to kids? Who hurt sex workers? Rapists? They’re doing irreparable harm, with full knowledge of their actions. For profit, mostly. If they’re willing to ruin lives, then they should be ready for their own to be ruined. It’s justice, for people like me.”

Cass studied him. “Justice…?”

“The only kind us Alley kids could ever appreciate. Arresting an abuser, a threat, and having that stick is for the privileged. Having that threat removed completely is relieving.”

“Can’t trust the world to be fair. But death, is fair.”

“Yeah. I think if I saw as much as you do, it’d be harder to do. But I think I’d still kill, because one person’s suffering after a life of being evil is worth the safety of so many others. To know… well, I guess I’m glad I don’t know what that’s like.”

“I see.”

“I know you do,” Jason grins at her. “But not killing is an act of courage too. Even if B makes it seem like it should come instinctually.”

“Yes. He does not connect, with Damian. Does not understand, fully, how hard. To unlearn.”

“Yeah.”

They sit in silence for a while after that, listening to the sounds of their family clambering around in other rooms.

“Hey, Cass?”

Cass turned back to him.

“I would kill David Cain for you.”

He would. It makes the Pit seethe when he thinks about how much David Cain and Lady Shiva hurt Cass for her to get this insanely good at reading people. He hopes she sees the pure honesty and sincerity he feels at that declaration

Cass puts a hand on his shoulder and squeezed once. Twice.

“Okay. Thank you.”

“No objections?”

“… would not feel too bad.”

Jason snorted.

“Yeah. You and me both.”

He doesn’t know how they got here, but he’s thankful for it anyways, because he understands his sister just that much more now.

[shit-talker]

"Tim and Cass Twin AU!"

"Jason and Cass Twin AU!"

Ah, but I raise you this... Tim, Cass, and Jason Triplet AU

(Follow-up post for this AU)

[picrew-fanart]

more steph & cass <3 (picrew)

[papaiyatree]

hello rn i'm thinking abt the fact shiva was called sandra for this scene and i cannot form proper coherent thoughts about it

idk but i think it's an interesting move to split shiva and sandra a bit, hope this doesn't turn into some bullshit alter ego thing because i think this idea can have its fruits ngl

[exhausted-pigeon]

@matchacheezo sorry it took me a while but there we are! Let's start explaining my unhinged (wel not really unhinged but surely complicated) headcanon for Cass and Jason has twins!

-

A bit of a premises:

1. We are going with Sandra old backstory, her sister was murdered by Guano Cravat, not David Cain, and Cain had absolutely nothing to do with her until well after she became Lady Shiva;

2. I prefer when Willis and Catherine are loving but struggling parents, with a lot of flaws but that are trying their best, that the outright abusive ways that are depicted in RHatO;

3. I haven't read has many comics I like (fuck ADHD) so my canon information is second hand, not very important for this but I wanted to clarify that.

Now in for the actual headcanon!

-

How Jason and Cass are twins

Cain wants a heir like in canon, and does find a suitable partner in Lady Shiva (who has become extremely famous after she took revenge on her sister murder has a wandering mercenary) and approach her with a proposal of her donating her genetic material to make the perfect warrior, but she refuses and laugh in his face.

Cain is determined to have the perfect child so he hunts her down and tries to force her in to collaboration but she is better an manage to kick his ass and avoid the LoA people that he send after her.

So Cain goes in another direction and investigate her past and find out her old identity, and the fact that she had donated her eggs to a fertility clinic before the death of Carolyn. So he has the eggs stolen and hires Sheila Haywood, a doctor that was in trouble for malpractice, to act has both the surrogate mother and pediatric for after the kids are born (because they would still have needed some medical supervision even with the batshit training he would put them through).

So they move to one of the LoA bases or something and the kids are born. Fraternal twins, and they are healthy and growing well, but the boy seems to be weaker than the girl, and Cain is all but ready to be done with Jason to focus on Cassandra.

Potentially Jason has some health issues that seen to make him a imperfect candidate, maybe he is born hard of hearing or something that a eugenicist piece of shit like Cain would consider lesser. The point is Jason is not the son Cain wanted and would not care if he died or disappeared.

But there is a guard there that has taken something of a shine to the boy, and he does want he can to help Jason in some ways.

Enter stage left a young Talia, who is there to see how the project for her father perfect bodyguard is coming along. She notices the way baby Jason is struggling, Cain disinterest, Shelia coldness towards both kids, and how it seem that only this guard seems to care about this child. so she takes the situation in hand, and help the man escape with baby Jason, and covers his tracks so the LoA would not find them again. It's not that hard, Jason was pretty much declared a fallied product and the guard was no one important, so they disappear.

The man ends up settling in Gotham and making himself a new identity has Willis Todd, single father, and meets there a struggling actress who ran aways from her family when she came out has trans. Her name is Catherine, and she absolutely adore his little prince.

-

And the things process has canon or whatever story I'm working on.

-

The details may change depending on stuff (like if I go with trans guy Jason), but this is the basic idea.

I have more ideas on Willis and how his experience shape the way he raises Jason but that isn't the focus there.

-

I hope you enjoy! 💜

EDIT because forgot earlier: anyone feel free to reblog and/or use this idea for their stuff, just tag me/message me so I can see it!

Also tagging @benbamboozled (because I added some stuff from the last time we talked about this) and @prodigworl hopping you enjoy it since it was your post that pushed me to finaly clean this idea up.

[martyrbat]

batgirl (2008) #4

[ID: Rose Wilson as Ravager, Cassandra Cain as Batgirl, and her sister Marque all looking ahead at something off panel. They all have a disgruntled expression other than Cass due to her cowl; but one can imagine she has a similar expression (if not more remorseful than the other two's). Between Cass and Marque is a narration box that has been edited to be blank. END ID]

[ID: the same panel as above but the original, unedited version. On the brick wall behind them is Deathstroke's silhouette as he goes to strike them with a sword. There's another internal narration box (in Cass's perspective) on the wall as well and the edited box is no longer blank. Together they read: ‘I don't want to hurt them. I want to help them. But I don't have any choice. They don't want my help.’ END ID]

[heroesriseandfall]

Cass is not a human lie detector…

[danitheclown]

the fear of being their father's child probably haunts every single one of batman's children in one way or another

even if in some of them is not the fear of being like bruce but their other parents

one thing I do not see used enough is that

Dick does not want to be like Bruce.

not just in the fact that he wants to be his own man. in the fact that he is actively afraid of becoming like him.

canonically one of his biggest fears is becoming Bruce.

this is such a ripe thing for angst, are you kidding me? I cannot believe people don’t use it more.

especially during his Batman era. he didn’t want the cowl, he actively said no to taking up the mantle at first, but then he felt like he had to.

and then to be good at it? to be good at being Batman? honestly that must’ve made him feel sick.

I need to see Dick be actively hostile about it too. if Jason, for example, in your fic is comparing Dick to Bruce I need to see Dick lash out about it.

because that's what he does when people compare the two! when Dick and Roy were purposely trying to piss the other off, Roy compared Dick to Bruce and Dick lost it.

[aingeal98]

Cass's civilian identity being paper thin is so important to me actually. Barely anyone on the street knows Bruce Wayne's daughter and any of the press who are interested can't uncover a single thing other than him adopting her when she was 19. It leads to a whole lot of speculation but no actual facts.

Meanwhile you have assassins who are the best of the best, the cream of the crop, and anyone who is someone in the evil assassin underworld knows all about David Cain and his daughter who turned rogue and became Batgirl.

Which means most of them see her with Bruce Wayne and are like ohoho a clever plan by Batman indeed! Putting Batgirl undercover as Bruce Wayne's daughter to guard and protect Wayne, who's a key part of all the recent projects to improve Gotham City. Masterful gambit Mr Batman sir, you also get a spy who reports on everything Wayne's doing whenever you need it.

This gives Cass the freedom to not even try to hide herself behind some sort of helpless civilian persona. Attempted kidnappings of Bruce Wayne and his kids have dropped by 90% since she got adopted, as the first one to try and take a fancy party hostage got the shit kicked out of him by Cassandra Wayne while her father watched proudly.

The next attempt brought a gun and she disarmed him then broke his hand. Finally they sent a whole squad of mercenaries to kidnap Bruce and Tim on the way to a W.E business meeting only to find Cass in the car with them. The kidnapping did not go as planned and the goons have several questions as to why the fuck Bruce Wayne's daughter is a metahuman who dodges bullets. They never get answers.

She's the only batkid who never has to fake her abilities. Damian is highly indignant about this but she just pokes his forehead and tells him it's a skill issue when he complains.

[casscainmainly]

Do you remember Cass having any moments where she was like, the way I was treated as a child was not okay and I’m not happy about it? The only thing that comes to my mind is her desire for physical and emotional connections with others. It’s such an interesting juxtaposition between Steph who resents her father and what he did and Cass who still loves her father even after everything he did to her. Like, being isolated for so long seemed to greatly lessen any hard feelings Cass had for her upbringing, and I guess what I’m asking is did she eventually expand her worldview in a way that changed her feelings about her childhood?

This question is sooo interesting. I don't think she ever comes to a full understanding of how abusive her childhood was, but she definitely is aware of some of it:

Batgirl (2000) #50 / #33

Particularly in #33 (the above second panel), when she's asking Cain "who do you think you are?", she's realising the way she was treated was inhumane. She's asking him what gave him the right to do that to her. It's the second most confrontational she ever gets with him.

Steph is absolutely a great contrast to this, but her friendship also allows Cass to process some of her abuse. It's the same for her relationship with Tim:

Batgirl (2000) #28 / #59

In Steph and Cass' convo, Cass is relating to another abuse victim - she's recognising, on some level, that what her dad did to her was abuse. Steph also emphasises that what Cass experienced was worse. Tim, similarly, says that Cass' childhood was 'horrible'; in the next panel, Cass thinks she doesn't know what it's like to have a 'real' father like Tim's. I think having Steph and Tim as counterpoints helps her see David Cain as abusive.

Then there's Batgirl (2008) #6:

The most confrontational Cass has ever gotten with her dad. Cain's characterisation is iffy, but everything Cass says here builds on her development in Batgirl (2000). It's the ultimate moment where she realises everything he took away from her: reading, speaking, play, family, and above all, choices.

She tries to save him immediately after, so I don't think she ever stops loving him (particularly not in New 52, where he tries to save her life and dies). But she does acknowledge what he did to her, and why it was wrong. I just don't think she allows herself to understand the extent of the wrongdoing, because that absolves her of the responsibility of her murder, and she can't grant herself that mercy.

[faeriekit]

AU where Danny is Lady Shiva's second kid/Cass's twin who gets kicked out as soon as womb eviction is over and David Cain takes his pick on which kid he wants to raise as an evil superweapon. Is this anything. ⬇

Since most of Cass's everything is upbringing dependent, it would make sense if Danny was just like some Wasian kid in the middle of a midwest suburban town making his way through life. Nothing is inherently mystical about him. He's just Some Guy. He got yeeted into the foster system at birth and adopted rather young with some minor attachment issues while growing up— which might even be an impetus for Jazz to start learning psych from a young age, if it's being modelled around her as Danny's growing up. It would also be entirely plausible that Danny would completely forget that this ever happened to him (he was p young) but that Jazz would have this as like a core foundational part of her young life— entirely entwined with the mildly traumatizing experience of New Baby Brother that a little kid would have to adapt to.

On the other hand, this would be great or Cass to angst over: firstly, because it was literal chance that he got a normal life and Cass did not, and having a mirror to look directly into the eyes of the person Cass Almost Was would undoubtedly fuck her up completely for at least a while; secondly, because when investigating him (out of fear of ruining his life)(or even just ruining Cass's perception of herself), it would eventually become entirely clear that there is something Cass's twin is hiding, and that the secret has the potential of ruining all the lives around them—

—Possibly including Cass's new family that she's so desperate to protect—

—Or possibly including Danny himself.

And that would be fucked up. And Sad :) It's not fun stop smiling [ :) ]

Also:

Jazz: Hey!! Nice to meet you! You're our new sister? :) Jazz's body language: IcanfixherIcanfixherIcanfixh— :D Cass: *mental air raid sirens start wailing*

[deadsetobsessions]

Cassandra Cain knows how to read people. Every twitch, every micro-expression, every sway of their pupils.

She knows people better than they know themselves. She could pick out a person’s life without having to speak or hear a single word from them.

Language, without a sound.

Honesty, complete and unwilling, at her fingertips.

David Cain had beaten it into her; to observe, to read, to kill without protest. She was never a daughter to him- even if Cassandra hadn’t understood what love or being a daughter meant before she met Bruce- and she understood that.

There are scars lining her body, truths carved into her flesh that she knows she could never truly hide. But that’s alright. She’s learned by now that no one can read her quite as well as she reads them. Not even the metas. They notice it, of course, the tells and the twitches. But none of them could flawlessly put everything together like Cassandra could. They focus on the big things, like heart beat or sweat or flickering eyes. Cassandra takes note of the twitching fingers, the stances, the breaths, how lax their legs are, or which muscle groups are bunched up. She figures things out about them far before they even have a hint of her outer workings.

Cassandra Cain knows there is subtle faintness to her frame, a wildness lurking beneath her skin that she’s never going to be able to tame completely, the ways in which she leans that betrays her time as a starved and feral street kid. She also knows that no one will ever know the extent of it unless she allows them to. It’s nice, having that security.

It’s also lonely, that no one will understand her the way she understands everyone else. Well, until Danny Phantom.

Just like how she can see the scars left on him by people he trusted, the marks of crackling electricity behind a boy who should be dead, he also sees her. The training, yes. But Danny Phantom also sees the pavement like side to her where it should have been downy feathers. He sees the wildness prickling at her fingertips, the violence set in her bones.

And he still smiles at her anyways. His acceptance is screamed to Cass, though simply relaxed to anyone else.

Cassandra glides over to place a hand on Danny’s shoulders and squeezes twice.

Yes, she tells him without a word, spoken, you’re my little brother. I am not alone anymore.

Yes, she tells him without a sound passing through their eyes, we will protect you.

Danny beams up at her as the rest of the family relaxes. She still feels a thrill when she realizes (not belatedly, only slow comprehension) that they were waiting for her verdict.

She sighs in relief. Message received. Danny, eyes glowing green, leans back to rest on the couch.

He shrugs at her with a sincere grin.

And he even says thank you.

And he meant it.