#but I was writing about HRE for the historical event and I thought it would be good to lay all of this out

[erzherzog-von-edelstein]

On the Holy Roman Empire

I have been thinking about the canon Germans, and the way that Holy Rome is a very interesting depiction given the history. But, the historical reality of the HRE is rather difficult to conceptualize, so I am going to do my best to explain the historical entity.

The Holy Roman Empire Historically

There is an old joke that the Holy Roman Empire is neither Holy, Roman, nor an empire. And to an extent this is true. The Empire was a secular body (in terms of not being ruled by a religious figure. No political body in the Middle Ages was truly secular), so not Holy. It also did not contain Rome for most of its existence. Nor did it conform to the modern understanding of empire because electors were able to ignore some dictates of the empire.

So, if the title is so misleading, why does it exist? Well, partially because the modern title of Holy Roman Empire is an amalgamation of a number of titles from across the many centuries that the empire existed. It is, to an extent, the best attempt to encapsulate all the claims made by the various emperors.

To reexamine the name, it in necessary to start with the first emperor. The title that Charlemagne was given by the Pope was Roman Emperor. The title from his coins and seals is: Imperator Augustus Romanum. This is the origin of the Holy Roman Emperor using the title “Roman.”

This is not Roman in the sense of containing Rome (or the Italian peninsula at all for that matter), but Roman in the sense of being the successor to the Roman empire. By claiming to be the Roman emperor, the German kings were laying claim to two things: 1. Authority in Europe. 2. Protection of the Church. 

The second point is vital, and is why the Pope performed the coronation in the middle ages. The empire isn’t Holy, but there is a large sacral component to the title. In being crowned by the Pope the emperor took the role of protecting the church.

And the third aspect is the most difficult to deal with, since it was a empire, but not at all in the way you might think. If empire conjures to mind a political structure where one person has unlimited authority over vast tracts of land and possibly colonies, then that is misleading. The authority of the Holy Roman Emperor was always, on some level, symbolic.

But in order to fully explain why it was so symbolic, it’s necessary to first discuss how one becomes Holy Roman Emperor. And in the process there are two important factors to consider: 1. The position was not hereditary. 2. The title did not stand on its own.

In the period after the collapse of the Carolingian dynasty, the position became an elected one. But, importantly, this is not elected in the modern sense, but rather, elected from his peers. The heads of the various German principalities and duchies elected someone to have the title of King of the Germans. 

This was a more substantive title that carried with it some obligation of support and homage from the other princes. It was the coronation in Rome that made someone the Holy Roman Emperor, which didn’t bring any additional men, resources or vassals.

That tradition was done away with by Maximilian I, the first Habsburg Holy Roman Emperor, when he couldn’t campaign to Italy and instead had to request the Pope’s permission to be emperor from a distance. By that point both titles had effectively been compressed into one which gave the person who had it authority. But, by the Renaissance it no longer had nearly as much power as it did in the early middle ages.

But, this was not a hereditary title or position. The election meant that a select group of German princes and nobility chose the most qualified among them. In should be noted that this was not the Roman tradition. It was a uniquely German tradition. The Golden Bull of 1356 codified who the electors were, which meant some creative dynastic maneuvers to have a spot as an elector (like the Dukes of Austria using their positions as Kings of Bohemia and the Bavarian monarch becoming the Count Palatine).

But, if you were to look at the list of emperors, you’d notice them split by dynasty. Why does that happen if the title does not run in families? Well, the answer is that a current emperor could endorse his heir and have a higher likelihood of him being elected. But, it was also possible that if the heir was incompetent, the electors would choose someone else. Or if the heir was a girl - like Maria Theresa - there would be a whole crisis about who to elect.

Because of the election process, the title never existed on its own. To even be under consideration, the emperor already held a title - be it Duke of Saxony, Duke of Swabia, King of Bavaria, or Duke of Austria.  They had authority of their own before they were emperor, which further added to the additional imperial title being largely symbolic. The practical power came from their first title, not the imperial title.

The ability of the emperor to enforce their will was not grounded in their position as emperor. It was grounded on their ability to raise an army against electors who defied them. If they could not enforce their will, then their dictates meant nothing. This was most dramatically demonstrated by the elector of Saxony refusing to turn over Martin Luther no matter how much the Holy Roman Emperor insisted.

The Holy Roman Empire in Hetalia

So, with all of that in mind, the personification of the Holy Roman Empire is interesting because of what he represents. There is a pretty common view in the fandom that the personifications are tied to either land or people, but he proves that it is neither.

By nature of the construction of the Holy Roman Empire as a largely symbolic title attached to monarchs that held more practical titles, there is no part of the HRE that has land or people who would not be represented by another personification. As a personification, the Holy Roman Empire is a kind of abstraction. He represents an idea with a long tradition.

While I do not know if Hima’s thought process was grounded in all of this history, but portraying the HRE as the eternal child is actually refreshingly accurate. Because he is not grounded in an independent political entity, he cannot mature. So, he is stuck in the limbo of being a child.

The fact that the title was never held separately with other, more practically important, political titles also says a lot about HRE’s existence. He has no monarch, army, or land independent of another personification. So, he has a startling lack of agency. He is a child who is under the custody of whichever personification his emperor hails from. To add to that, being his guardian does led someone imperial prestige, so there is incentive to be the one who takes care of him. 

But he occupies a kind of personification limbo. He will always, by nature of what he represents, be stapled to another. The fortunes of his existence are very fickle, and he could be shuffled from one capital to another depending on the outcome of the elections. 

To fully appreciate his experience, imagine being a child of divorce, but instead of two parents deciding who takes care of you, it is a bunch of electors. And you have no ability to dictate your own preference in the process because you have no independent political representative of your own.

It is a kind of uncertainty that no other personification could experience. And you have to pity him to an extent.

[alfred-freakin-jones]

2, 5, 6, 12, 17, 24

Controversial Hetalia Ask Meme

2: Opinions on HRE?

The controversy being weather he’s Germany or not, I’m sure. Location wise, sure, it guess it makes sense, historically, also makes sense really. There are a few clues within the strip and anime that there are buried memories within Germany from HRE (see “Buon San Valentino” for example). However, historically, HRE fell, did not turn into Germany until much later, just fell, and if we drew on that alone, than why are the other empires not now countries? It just seems inconsistent. I do think it’s undoubtable though, that there is some kind of connection.

5: Thoughts on any of the Hetalia Girls?

Not really? Why is there a controversy over the existence of female countries? They’re all awesome, show different types and personalities, why is there a problem?

6: Do you think the Nyos are offensive? 

Again, what’s offensive about them? No, I really don’t get it, I got so excited when that strip came out and when it got put into the anime. Like, They’re no more offensive than the original characters, stereotyped by the country they represent, but also different from their main character. What’s offensive about it that’s not already there in the boys? Or do people really just like their sausage fest that much? :I

12:Thoughts on cosplayers cosplaying as a character of a different nationality/race? 

As long as your not being outright offensive, or disrespectful, I see no real difference between that and cosplaying trolls from homestuck. Honestly though, telling someone they can’t cosplay because of their race is like telling someone they can’t cosplay because they don’t have the right body type. It’s rude at best. Also, literally I’m American and cosplay as Nyo!Italy, I see no problem in cosplaying characters that are other nationalities. 

17: Thoughts on straight ships?

I don’t care. Really, I don’t. Ship what you want. All I ask is you tag sex and nudity cuz I don’t want to see that. The only ships I absolutely don’t like are the incest and pedo ships.

24: How do you feel about WWII AU’s?

This literally takes place in WWII??? I LOVE historical AU’s though. Yes, these were REAL situations, and these things DID actually happen, as long as they do proper research, I don’t see a problem with them. I can see why some would call that offensive or dis-respectful, but as long as your not romanticizing it, I think there’s a real difference. It’s like making a political cartoon about current events, only in writing. Also remember that WWII was such a huge historical event, SO MUCH HAPPENED, there are so many different things to focus on.