#btw i don't think sonic 06 is THAT bad

[alicethehollow]

I honestly cannot believe that one of the coolest lines ever (that is also particularly relevant to LGBTQ+ peeps right now) comes from the mouth of Shadow the Hedgehog from the dumpster fire of known as Sonic 06 of all games

Anyway, as a wise hedgehog once said,

[artificialchaoscola]

This is another ramble that prob makes no sense lets gooooooooo

Do you guys ever think that the reason Shadow says shit like "I don't run." when faced with danger is that the last time he did that instead of fighting, he lost his sister? Like he'd rather just take his chances and potentially lose against a threat versus dealing with that trauma again? Certainly Shadow will think at random that maybe he should've done something differently that day. Maybe he should've stopped and fought while she ran, and it haunts him that he was afraid. She probably convinced him to run with her, to not fight, and maybe trust in her idealism haunts him.

I think a big part of Shadow's character is there being this huge tragedy regarding Maria and her desires for him, that her influence actually breaks him in a lot of ways because it doesn't allow him to live. That's why SA2 is such a tragic story to me. Here you have this -by all accounts - child, this experiment, unable to live life on the planet he always glimpsed at because he's trapped in his mourning + the corrupted memories Gerald implanted in him (btw you can also compare Shadow's lack of reaction to the world with Silver's admiration in 06 but that's an analysis for another time). He didn't think sooner that it was out of character of his sister to desire the annihilation of the planet because Shadow simply does what Maria wants. She was his world, the only thing he cared about. Earth was her dream, and her desires being fulfilled was his. Yet without her alive he doesn't see the point in anything except planet-wide death. He was so willing to do what she said he forgot who she was before her demise practically.

It's fucked up and sad, and I think that that's why having Maria's ghost haunt him so often should always show Shadow is on a path of self-destruction if he lets the bad memories get to him. Part of the beauty of Shadow's (the game) true ending is his coming to terms that all of those people in his life, Maria included, have influenced the person he is, but he can choose the person he becomes in the future. And I think part of that healing journey would be letting go of a lot of what Maria expected of him. Not all of it, of course, I love when they reference her and how she influences his considerations. I just hope that if Maria is the ONLY person he thinks of as an influence in any of the Sonic media, they always take the time to show that putting her above his own person is dangerous for his mental health.

[jinxed-thylacine]

Genuinely every time I see people complain about how Sonic characters are characterized in the modern day I'm just like "okay and?"

Why is Amy mellowing out and focusing on things that aren't Sonic a bad thing

Why is Silver being nowhere near as aggressive as he was in 06 and the Rivals duology a bad thing

Why is Shadow not being hyperfocused on Maria (but still working to keep his promise to her mind you) a bad thing

Why is how Ian Flynn writes Sonic bad (and btw he essentially gets commissioned by Sega to write the games and comics. If Sega didn't like what he was doing they'd tell him and I know this because he's talked about it on Bumblekast and some of his interpretations of the characters do contradict stuff he's written)

There are probably others but I can't think of any off the top of my head. The only character I understand complaining about is Knuckles, and even then obviously he's going to be misinterpreted sometimes, that comes with the territory of him being gullible. And that's the thing, every writer who has worked on Sonic, currently works on Sonic, or will work on Sonic will have different interpretations of each character, and there's nothing wrong with that.

It ends up turning into a double-standard for fans vs the people working on the series (and it is worth noting there's significant overlap there, especially in America) where people love seeing different interpretations of Sonic characters from fans (and some of these interpretations are objectively inaccurate to the characters in official content; that doesn't make them wrong however) but if official content deviates even slightly from what people are used to seeing because the writers interpret the characters differently, it's treated like the official writers are committing a crime.

Writing is an art just as much as games are and everyone will interpret how characters have been written differently, including current writers' interpretations of past games. I might interpret Shadow's arc in the 2000s one way, while someone else might interpret it completely differently.

You can have intended readings of what you're writing, and most of the time the Sonic writers do extremely well getting that intended reading across, but that doesn't mean everyone reads it the exact same way. The easiest way to get my point across using Sonic specifically (in my opinion) is by using Team Chaotix. Is their dynamic a dad and his two sons, an older brother and his two younger brothers, or two dads and their son? I personally think their dynamic fits "a dad and his two sons" better, but none of the interpretations I presented are wrong.

I could not care less about how Sonic characters are officially written in games or the comics because everyone's going to have a different interpretation of the characters, and the writers have to work within Sega's guidelines for the characters. It will always be like this until Sega comes up with solid, strict guidelines for how characters should be written, which is harder than it sounds (and no, I don't count their mandates because obviously there are still different characterization interpretations)

TL;DR: Nobody's interpretations of Sonic characters are wrong, if you get so mad about an interpretation of a character you like that you resort to harassment just block people please

[tmntkiseki]

The miscellaneous recurring 2003 turtle thoughts

It's ironic that one of the complaints I've seen regarding the 2003 series is that it's too serious and the turtles don't act like teenagers enough, yet the two seasons where they have the most opportunities to behave like normal kids—Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer—have mixed to negative reception among fans.

Overall, the turtles are one of those "tragic teenage protagonist" cases. The fact that they're giant mutant turtles already denies them a normal social life with other teenagers their age, but they're constantly being thrown into traumatic life or death situations that would break the toughest of trained army soldiers and rarely get a moment to breathe. It makes the brief moments where we see them goofing around, joking with each other, and otherwise just acting their age that much more meaningful. (And also why Leo's PTSD arc from Season 4 hurt so bad; the All Hallows Thieves filler episode in particular stands out because it's a Halloween episode and yet Leo is the only one not having fun.)

Side note: It really is difficult to tell how much time passes in 2003. The first five seasons take place over the course of about two years, but sometimes it feels like they apply seasonal weather such as snow not because it makes sense chronologically, but because the plot of the episode wouldn't work otherwise ("The Golden Puck" from Season 2, which is a very good episode btw, is a prime example of this.)

I haven't actually watched a whole lot of Demon Slayer (I think I watched through episode 20 of the first season before I forgot about it) but the opening themes fit the turtles so well. NateWantsToBattle's English cover of Gurenge is especially good if you're imagining it as being sung from Leo's perspective.

How does Silver's theme from Sonic 06 fit Don so well? Maybe not in terms of lyrical content, but in terms of instrumentals. The LB vs JS Remix and Nightlight versions especially.

I know I was giving The Next Mutation grief for giving Venus plastron boobs, but I was looking through the official character art for the 2003 series and the way the turtles stomachs are shaded on occasion... I'm not denying that they have six packs hidden inside of their shells considering how well built they are, but I don't think those muscles are capable of bulging through their plastrons.

Demisexual Leonardo. I have made my final decision on this and will stand by it.

[quarzy]

Why do you want sonic to stay dead?

I personally think sonic is one of the less interesting characters, so I don't really have a strong opinion of him.

Btw you art is pretty, it gives of wet cat vibes /positive

me personally, im just that big of a hater /j

i just think it wouldve been interesting to see how 06 would've ended. like theyd all be too busy sulking over his death while solaris completely obliterates the entire planet. but if shadow and silver do end up beating the thing and elise puts out the flame i think that'd fuck up the entire timeline REAL BAD because sonic doesnt exist anymore. either way they all lose.

oh, also, so that one godawful kiss scene would never exist. just. yeah. make elise completely useless i guess.

but of course, sega team has their favorites. we'll never see the little blorbo have his well deserved victory in this godawful game. 😔

OH AND THANK YOU i freakin love wet cats!!

[jupitercl0uds]

[this is from thursday i just kept forgetting to finish the transcript]

another recorded rant lmao

transcript:

so my devilish little self decided to have one of these little rants again because i like to rant (and because i probably have ADHD) and, um, i'm home alone and this is what i do when i'm home alone, because i don't get to speak, because i don't like speaking, because i don't like interrupting people, being weird, people KNOWING i'm weird, or anything like that. even though my family are well aware of that, i don't want them hearing it.

anyway! i reckon i could probably do a fluttershy voice if i tried.

uhh... what's a thing fluttershy would say?

...

ok, this isn't a thing fluttershy would say. but it's on my mind.

[high pitched fluttershy voice] every day is the same. that's not. fluttershy. [fluttershy voice] every day is the same, wake up, look at the fire in the sky festival, be awesome, brood.

i'm so fucking high right now do you see my eyes? they are brrIIGGHt red. i haven't watched the shadow- i haven't watched the '06 dub in too long to remember this. i like doing this voice. i don't think it sounds like fluttershy but, y'know, it's got a bit of a wobble to it [dave the intern voice] it's more like dave the intern, really. i bruise like a delicate peeeach... [slight giggling]

i do love dave the intern- like, i can't lie, half of his lines are soooo bad... but the other half are absolute gold and i love them.

um... what else? suddenly, i want to sing ruler of everything, so get prepared for my awesome cover.

[for some reason this next bit gets really loud???]

I'M TAKING OVER YOUR WORLD! I'M TAKING OVER YOUR UNIVERSE! I'M TAKING YOUR TV! I'M GLITCHING IT! THEY- THEY CALL ME THE GLITCH! DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY CALL ME THE MOTHERFUCKIN' GLITCH? CAUSE I GLITCH YOUR TVs OUT! i'm taking the world by STORM. i'm gonna be dropping my latest album: CRACKIN' EGGS. [snapcube president voice] crackin' eggs? mm, ha. [sonic voice] hey mr president [president voice] SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, MY LONG LOST LOVE- sorry.

ok where would ruler of everything be? like- quickest one to- it would probably be in silly 4. i think it's like, first one- yeah.

[i don't know how to transcribe this part other than saying i'm singing 13 by tally hall in cursive??? and then i stop halfway??? btw 13 is instrumental] no im not playing 13

[ruler of everything starts playing] here we go.

ooh, yeah! juno was mad, he knew he'd been had so he shot at the sun with a gun shot at the sun with a gun shot at his wily one, only friend

yuh, YUH- sorry, i won't do that

in the gallows or the ghetto, in the town or the meadow, in the billows, even over the sun, every end of a time is another begun. you understand mechanical hands are the ruler of everything (ah) ruler of everything (ah) i'm the ruler of everything in the end

i should turn this down 👍

do you like how i dance? i got zirconium pants (i'm not singing these lines, they're too-) do you like how i walk? do you like how i talk? do you like how my face disintegrates into chalk? i have a wonderful wife, i have a powerful job she criticises me for being egocentric

you practice your mannerisms into the wall if this mirror were clearer, i'd be standing so tall i saw you slobber over clovers on the side of the hill i was observing the birds (circle in for the kill)

i've been you, i know you your façade is a scam you know, you're making me cry, this is the way that i am i've been living a lie, a metamorphical scheme (detective undercover brotherhood objective obscene)

oh, oh no, oh yeah

YO! I LOVE THIS BIT! I LOVE IT! A LOT!

do you hear the flibberty jibberty jibber jabber with an 'oh my god i've gotta get out of here or i'll have another word to sell, another story to tell, another time piece ringin' the bell!' do you hear the clocks stop when you reach the end? no, you know it must be never-ending comprehend if you can but when you try to pretend to understand you resemble a fool, although you're only a man, so give it up and smile!

do you hear the flibberty jibberty jibber jabber with an 'oh my god i've gotta get out of here or i'll have another word to sell, another story to tell, another time piece ringin' the bell!' do you hear the clocks stop when you reach the end? no, you know it must be never-ending comprehend if you can but when you try to pretend to understand you resemble a fool, although you're only a man, so give it up and smile!

s-sorry! my voice kinda goes out of tune, cause i can't- yeah. bit fast, you know. yuh. oh i need to work on that british high school au.

you understand mechanical hands are the ruler of everything ruler of everything i'm the ruler of everything in the end

i should have sung this all an octive high- octave higher, by the way

without lookin' down, glidin' around like a bumbling dragon, i fly scrapin' my face on the sky oh, no, no, oh yeah.

hold on- let me just- hold on- i'm gonna try and sing that again, cause like, i usually sing it in a different key anyway

[octave higher] without lookin' down, glidin' around like a bumbling dragon, i fly

yeah, i dunno. both are kind of uncomfy. anyway, i think my parents are here, so byyyeee!

[chickenwaffles17]

I don't have that great taste as someone who genuinely likes Sonic 06, but even I can tell Rise of Lyric is just... not good

I like some aspects, like the animation for the faces might be a random one, but it's shockingly expressive and natural, I really appreciate it! Other than that... Why is Shadow here? Why is Metal Sonic here? Why are they fighting in the Ice Age? Apparently this game went through some issues in development, and while 06 definitely wasn't the cleanest ordeal behind the scenes, at least it seems like a Sonic game, if that makes sense

(I am aware that the Boom universe takes place in a different universe than the main games btw)

06 is obviously superior to ROL just by comparing the two's cutscenes, when I watched a Cutscene movie for 06 and saw Soleanna for the first time I was astounded by how beautiful it was, thinking: "how is this the worst Sonic game, this looks great" and then Princess Elise got kidnapped at least 18 times and kissed Sonic and I was like- oh okay

I feel like there's a lot you can appreciate 06 for, the characterisation of Shadow as an edgy but ultimately loyal and trustworthy friend is a good example, the introduction of Silver as an optimistic tortured young soul, there's obviously more to this game that probably could have made it one of the best Sonic games with a little bit more polishing in my opinion

Rise of Lyric... It seems like Sonic Team were more focused on adhering to their guidelines and rules set up for these characters, setting up an unnecessary Westernised universe for the English speaking countries than the benefit of the game? It was initially going to be about Eggman and Sonic's backstory, it would be revealed that they were friends at first but a young Eggman betrayed Sonic's trust by messing around with time travel and stuff.

While there are definitely some plot holes with this idea it's not that bad, right? But Sega said "no we wanna tell Sonic's backstory at some point" so they had to SCRAP THAT and make Lyric and now we have this shit

Yeah I think they'd have to redo the whole thing if they wanted to make it better, polishing isn't really an option here

Knuckles' tax evasion is funny though

Explain why in the notes! 🎶

[birdsareblooming]

Y'know what, fuck the internet; Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric is a good game. Not because of the story writing, but because an enemy dodged Sonic's spin attack once and he just had an existential crisis right there on the spot and it was so fucking funny for some reason.

Rise of Lyric is an interesting case. ESPECIALLY when comparing it to 06.

RoL I could see being a good game if given so much more time. Like, an entire other year in development before release. It had ideas but not enough time to flush them out or even think about doing it well. You can tell there's so much they wanted to do and couldn't. There's opaque models of collectibles you can't collect, and voice lines for Shadow (And Perci and Sticks also I think) like drowning sounds that imply that they were supposed to be playable.

Also, RoL didn't really know it's identity. You can tell that by playing/watching it. It's not sure what it is. The DS games and the show are infinitely better in this regard because they fully know what they are. The show is a workplace comedy but with Sonic characters, and the DS games play into that. Cutscenes from RoL are incredibly different from DS cutscenes and the show (which are very similar) That understand that these characterizations are for comedic purposes, and although stakes are allowed it's never taken too seriously by anyone. In RoL they treat lyric like Darth Vader, in Shattered Crystal Sticks and Amy separately joke and threaten to make him into shoes, and the game ends with Shadow kicking him out of a plane. RoL tried to be too serious and it didn't work with the characterizations. RoL is very different from the show where we cut to Sonic and Tails eating a comically large sandwich and Sonic calls it a "comically large sandwich" after hearing Eggman was suing him. Meanwhile the DS games (Which were actually finished btw) keep that same feeling of Boom.

The difference between RoL and 06 is 06 had less of a chance of being a close to flawless game in my mind. Yes oh I WISH we got it finished, but unless they wanted to redo a bunch of shit, we'd still have the weird age gap human girl romance and making a 15yo choose between a 17yo and a 12yo. And honestly, that part is what weighs the game down so much. Not even Elise as a character (tho I wish they expanded on her more) just that weird push for a romantic part. Honestly other than that, it's mostly gameplay. The story is interesting and Silver fucking rules, but it's sometimes almost impossible to play (See: It's No Use) Either because of glitchiness or they just didn't care enough to make it easier.

Both of these games aren't talked about how they should be. It's always "lol they suck lol" or "oh they suck bc they're sonic games" when that's not going deep into it at all. Looking into why the games aren't great not only can help the developers in the future, but makes a good understanding of why, instead of just saying "oh bc it's a sonic game"

I can't call them good games, but I can't call them bad games either. Unlike some bad games I've seen, RoL and 06 had the opportunity to be great, it was just the studio that forced them to rush it out that made them how they are. Which is why people saying "lol it just sucks" isn't really giving it it's due. I've seen... so much worse games. I've seen Frogger the Great Quest, I've seen the fucking smarties game, Fuck, the new fallout game is probably just as if not MORE glitchy than 06 and boom.

They're interesting studies in not just Sonic games, but games as a whole, and how even though these are clear examples to take time making games, even still companies don't listen.

[ghitathepanda]

If I become a game review youtuber, I'll have to put disclaimers at the start of the video for Sonic games that I like that it will be a positive review.

Sonic Forces would have to be specifically titled to give it away I unironically like the game because I dare sabotage my own youtube game review career. If I make a big enough name for myself, it'll probably because someone on twitter will screenshot the thumbnail and title and Sonic twitter will bully me for being part of the "say the bad game is underrated" and make me an example of "fans like these who eats up mediocrity is why we can never get good Sonic games from Sega ever again".

This kinda makes me think of discourse on all sorts of media and how certain fans of something that has made enough bad products justify clowning on people who don't know better on "why this thing is bad actually", although certain fandom discourses like Marvel and DC Comics usually are on a different level beyond what I want to actually discuss. Like sure, you want that franchise to actually improve and it makes sense that you consider positive opinions on what you consider to be bad to just be bad for the sake of that franchise making a proper improvement because you don't want creators to have wrong assumptions on what people want, but the reality is that some people will have considered all those negative points made but still like it anyway because the good points that are present have enough merit to those people to save it from being as bad as people make it out to be in their opinion. But the internet has made it so easy for cynicism to settle in and allow people to mock others for having any optimism. Again, for understandable reasons, but discouraging people for enjoying something "because it can lead to the franchise not recovering from its dark era" in a mocking way does feel like a bit much.

Sorry for this long ass non-rant because I just have things to say that I've been thinking about for a long while now about the conflict of opinions and how much they matter. Opinions do affect how any given franchise, Sonic in this case, either improve or worsens but some people just have that spirit to be able to find the good in things that can frustrate some depending on how bad you really think it is.

Doesn't change the fact that I find myself with the screwed priority of wanting "good Sonic games" for the sake of being able to enjoy something in peace instead of just thinking "that last game is bad" because I can't help liking those "bad games". I never got to play Sonic 06 btw because I don't have the hardware to play it but I want to play just to test my limits on if I am capable of liking it. The only Sonic game I come close to hating is Shadow the Hedgehog, though that's more to me not being in the mood to get all the endings because some missions can get annoying to do, which proves that I can certainly hate on things if I want but I don't exactly hate that game. I guess it's on the lower end on the "bad scale" and only barely entered the "bad" zone (higher = worse) for that game design choice on how to unlock the true ending.

Also feeling tired of being negative and angry at games and other media these days so that's probably the source of this whole thing

[plumsaffron]

This destruction is the only tale we tell waaaaah the story and paths is pointless in shadow the hedgehog because only the intro and last story matter. i wanna linear campaign. I want basicness like the previous and after. I hate this game because I had no idea shadow can switch so easily and cutscenes hurt me when it’s done. i hate this game so much. Shadow characterization is better in every other game that isn’t this or meta era. I hate conviences like vehicles and weapons because he doesn’t need them he’s fast on his own. I want natural abilities like chaos spear.

Oh lol boo who woe weep and cry some more. You fool. By that logic more or less other sonic games you play are pointless minus secret rings, zero gravity (maybe even free riders) and the black knight. do you want to know the first reason why?

Chaos Emeralds. unlimited power unlimited mystical power. with that emerald you can unlock unlimited power. goodbye like a lot of sonic games. I can manipulate time and space or change my thoughts to my desire. all bad sad tragic things can be fixed. this makes essentially every game with them as devices in the story useless.

vehicles? quit yapping. why not? let him be. you care cause? didn't some of you think he too fast and slippery (btw learn rt button)? I play gta sa or v mods where i can fly run swim fast. Istill may use a vehicle because I can, so piss off. weapons? * laughs in sonic adventure to heroes and SA2 sonic battle and sonic 06*.

did you know things that you hate to use are usually optional and easy and useful defeat devices? did you know optional is a thing? oh yeah Chaos Spear was a final boss thing. if it was normally used it would get kind a stale and nothing special. what are y’all even saying anyways? yall acting like his gauges don't exist either for natural chaos abilities.

characterization? what are you talking about? Dawg, stop pretending a traumatized/targeted and manipulated memory loser/gainer that deserves his answers to the truth now is suppose to be like some preset hero previous and after. His untold truth would have haunted him even if he may have accepted he might not be real. only difference is you are the path decider of what to learn or what he learns. the stories or story where the pieces are coming together.

that also explains things that weren’t told and should have been informed in heroes and sa2 too and why he has to be the original. this is the type of game that where it’s decent to have many paths to explain what’s going or information to on but you have the option to not have to learn it all unless you desire it all or A ranks and Expert Mode (and this game is one of the most forgiving rank systems of all sonic related games).

Oh yeah what the heck is the squealing cause he mildly swears when hurt. let it be. certain objects hurt me or i collided with them and i might swear. quit acting like no one swears if something happens. people may or may not swear it depends so chill. Besides gameplay should be the best thing for a GAME.

Linear campaign again would be another clone induecd game of previous and after which is long overused and overdue. yeah yeah westopolis spam. Yeah game should have got a wii pc 360 and ps3 port for update sake (but like do you think devs would be like when going for a deadline with this think hey why not make it simply start story in a already completed area mission path and go from there?).

What’s with people with canon? thats a lame reason to call playing it a waste. And like why you upset do you really believe you playing through level in a linear path for other sonic like games is all canon too? lol its a game not a show or movie or special where you view a full forced scripted path.

If you hyper nitpickers want a so-called good story, then 10000 years hater 10000 years bandwagoner. Idk get Action Replay or A Save File. Idk go read a book or something see ya idiot. To me this game is rather sweet story and stories and fun gameplay. maybe there will be a day this game will be really understood and not over nitpicked egged to dust.

Just admit you just hate The Ultimate Lifeform not doing or being who you believe he should. Don’t be sugar coating if you dislike him in this or this game like ahh this was so good or going to be so good or could have been, but…. Maybe this was too deep for so many but who knows. Time to play Who I Am against the Annoying big youtubers and bandwagoning haters. We need more defenders of this damn game.