#bryke defense

[toph-bi-fong]

I’ve read through the first art book, and you can see that both Mike and Bryan had a lot of passion for wanting this idea for a show of theirs to become a real thing. They had to face a lot of obstacles with Nick executives just so they could put their vision out there.

All this only to be called “pedophiles” because the fandom’s overrated fanon ship didn’t actually happen.

You can be critical of their writing, that’s par for the course. There are some things in LoK I had issues with. But to compare them to the like of Dan Schneider and JK (the price of shit that created ren and stimpy), ACTUAL pedophiles that have worked for Nickelodeon? That’s fucking low.

ATLA didn’t need to exist you know. Nickelodeon could’ve just dropped it. But we did get it, and it’s a beautiful thing to exist- all thanks to these two and their creative team.

Y’all are pathetic.

[avatar-legends-confessionblog]

I think sometimes people forget that these characters are fictional and therefore can make no choices of their own and they exist within the framework of a 20 minute episode.

Bryke and all the ATLA writers are not god sometimes they forget to do something or sometimes doing something takes away the from the flow of the show. Which is why i hate the "they didn't even apologize argument" they have no free will. they are at the mercy of what the writers can/ and think is best fit into 20 minutes.

there are some apologies that need to be shown on screen for a well rounded resolution and there are some that we can imply happened off screen and that's fine!

I know we all love to praise ATLA for it's amazing writing and its god tier storytelling but it is not a perfect show and that's fine nothing is. there will always be something the writers didn't put in alot of the time because they simply didn't think to add it. I just really hate how this fandom talks about Bryke and all the hate they get for a show that we all love. (I dont know of any real life crimes they commited and of course they are not perfect writers and should not be treated as such but this fandom drags them way to hard)

X

[azula-hates-men]

the reason why i'll never take the argument that "fire lady katara disempowers katara" seriously is because in canon she is reduced to being aang's wife and the mother of his children, which actively disempowers her and a lot of the fics i've read with the fire lady katara headcanon have her being involved in politics which demonstrates that for the most part, zutara shippers care more about empowering katara than -GUNSHOTS.

[lady-iskra]

I can’t get over the fact that Bryke decided Katara should believe she deserves no thanks in The Promise. I mean, they literally made her feel guilty for being uncomfortable spending the night with her bfs groupies fangirls.

I’ve seen people claim that Aang was oblivious to this. Don’t they get what this is about? His obliviousness doesn’t even matter. Katara's feelings are valid no matter what, and talking about it would have been the only healthy thing to do.

And don’t get me started on those who insist that this shows how both of them had grown since Book 1... This is no growth to me. It seems like Katara, who has always been vocal about her feelings, learned in this one year of her relationship to repress them instead. Either to avoid conflict altogether or because she's been told to 'control herself'. And unfortunately, this is the reality for so many women in RL.

If this is Bryke’s idea of a healthy relationship, I’m actually so glad that Zutara isn’t canon. They could’ve easily made up for the forced K@taang endgame in ATLA by showing a relationship where both sides are validated equally, but instead we got this bs.

If this wasn’t already a bad enough example for girls and young women of what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like, Bryke took it even further: They made the very girls who openly flirted with Aang in front of his girlfriend the official Air Acolytes. In other words, unless Katara and Aang are off on their next adventure, they are surrounded by them almost 24/7.

Yeah, that’s right. Just keep smiling, Master Katara Avatar’s girl.

I mean, what does her life look like surrounded by those Aang-worshiping girls and her boyfriend, who remains oblivious? Constantly smiling, acting as though she doesn't hear the obvious advances happening right in front of her? Ignoring the catty comments directed at her by some of them? And, in general, adjusting to her boyfriend's—later, husband's—life while forgetting her own ambitions? Now, we could argue that she wouldn't stay with Aang if she eventually realizes that she has put up with too much and lost herself. But, I think, we all know that lifelong relationships like this exist in RL.

[ofswordsandpens]

wait one more thing about Ember Island Players that's so funny is like... imagine creating a show and then becoming either frustrated/annoyed/bemused that a sizable part of your fandom ships two characters that you don't want them to. And instead of ignoring it or letting it lie, they decide to use this episode as a moment to show these fans how silly that ship is. And sure, maybe its all supposed to be in good fun but like if the goal, in-part, was to discourage people shipping them, I cannot emphasize enough how acknowledging the pairing in-universe, having people consistently mistake them for a couple, and having said characters constantly over-react to the very notion and get belligerently defensive because they are very much not dating why would you say that is extremely antithetical to that goal.

[sapphic-agent]

Defying Gravity but it's Korra taking the blame and public damnation for the end of the world and leaving Asami behind to protect her

No One Mourns The Wicked but it's Asami grieving the love of her life while trying to spread the truth about what really happened and clear Korra's name

[forevermore05]

Zuko and his protectiveness over Katara backfired on the show

I think we're all quite aware of the fact that Zuko is canonically very protective over Katara

Exhibit A

When he saves Katara from falling rubble in the Western air temple.

Exhibit B

When he protects Katara from flames in that same episode when she is about to blood bend that fire nation soldier.

Exhibit C

The famous Agni Kai where he take lightning for Katara

Now why are these so significant? I think these are big gestures are to show Zuko's efforts to make amends after what he did to Katara. It could be argued these are very extreme ways of making it up to her because these came at the cost of his life. But this also goes to show his character development, as he is willing to protect Katara from danger. For me, one of the reasons why I ship them is because of his protectiveness. It's refreshing to see a character that has always been there to help and to be a support system to others be protected by someone else. I think it can be very fulfilling as a viewer. This effort that was made to write their relationship was so genuine, and it felt so heartfelt as the viewer, that it just made their dynamic one of the strongest in the show. Whether that be romantically or just platonically, their dynamic is probably one of the best in my opinion.

Now, with all that his protectiveness towards Katara immediately evaporate after the last Agni Kai which was pretty shocking, as they didn't get time to be able to talk about what happened. I feel like it removes a piece of genuineness from the show that the characters care for each other. And of course I know a reason why this could have happened is because, well, Kataang and Maiko exist. I think what made their dynamics so strong is because of their protectiveness for one another. Especially, Zuko's protectiveness over Katara. When it was removed in the comics, it felt like a bond had been destroyed because a big part of their dynamic was protecting each other and being there for each other, and having that level of communication. They were protecting each other through their communication and through their support for one another.

How I feel like it backfired on the show is that it created a bit of an emptiness in both of the characters. Especially when they interacted, it felt more distant in the comics, and it felt as if they were strangers. Zuko's writing, which leads to him being protective over her, is so poignant in their relationship that once it is removed it creates a hole in a way it makes his character feel more hollow in his relationship with Katara. It feels like an effort to create a divide and an erasure of their past and how significant his taking lightning for her was. A show that is built of meaningful character relationships took a piece of its own heart out and of its own show and stabbed it in front of all of us when it came to the erasure of Zutara. So they could push the canon ships. They were willing to remove that important element of character relationships for 2 poorly written couples.

I think it creates a level of ingenuity in this show. That is not shocking as many of Katara's other love interests met the same fate of ingenuity, whether that be Jet or Haru. Where she's never able to show her feelings about these people. Which I find quite strange seeing how the show aims to create depth and talk about feelings that actually provoke feelings in you. They don't actually go in-depth with what the leading lady's thoughts are about other people. For all the sake of keeping the focus on Kataang it costs the good writing for Katara to be able to feel complex emotions about the other male interests in her life. And it leads to a rough ending for a strong dynamic like Zuko and Katara that shows their desperation for Kataang at the cost of good writing especially for Katara.

[starlight-bread-blog]

In Defense of Maiko

Some people, namely Zvtarians, say that Mai x Zuko's narrative function was to show the audience and to Zuko himself that he doesn't fit in the Fire Nation's imperialist regime. In book 3 Zuko comes back to the Fire Nation. It's everything that he's ever wanted, but it doesn't bring him peace. And Mai is his girlfriend during this time. So she must be one of the reasons to why he's so miserable, right? It's an understandable argument. In fact, it's one that I used to believe in when I still shipped Zvtara. But do I still stand by that take? Well, no.

I believe that Mai's narrative function during the first half of book 3 was to give Zuko someone to vent to. Iroh is in jail, Azula can't be trusted, and Zuko and Ty Lee's relationship is nonexistent. Mai was the person Zuko went to to seek help and to share his frustrations. To support this, let's have a look at the Nightmares and Daydreams episode.

In this episode, Zuko:

Spends all day at her house.

Vents about not being invited to the war meeting.

Vents once again after the war meeting didn't go as he expected.

And Mai was being supportive all the way through. Please note that when Zuko vents to Mai, that's how the show vocalizes his internal struggles. That's the narrative function of their relationship. Mai is Zuko's safe space, even if it doesn't always seem like she is.

(Edit: I also forgot to add Zuko confirming that Mai wasn't a part of the reason why his time in the Fire Nation was miserable):

But yeah, we need to address the elephant in the room. Mai and Zuko's relationship isn't always fun and games. They fight, they don't know how to make each other happy, they aren't perfect. But now that we've established that their narrative function is to be each other's safe space, all of these moments of toxicity ultimately boil down to just that. Moments. Like a real couple. Real couples fight, real couples sometimes don't know how to make each other happy and real couples aren't perfect. The imperfections of Maiko is what makes them realistic. And that's what I love about them.

[vlackevil]

“Zutara was planned” Bryke in a interview:

Zutara was never a option.

[dragonfoxandfound]

Hater Kataang stan anon: that last katara fanart you reblogged, op is a typical zk shipping loser

Delirious Kataang stan: ew - I deleted it cuz I went to their blog and saw them saying Katara is Aang’s mommy

Idk bro, if you really stan Katara I feel like you wouldn't care who created the pro Katara content. Sounds like hating Zutara is more important to you than stanning Katara.

But why should I be surprised? Most Kataang stans put Aang's every want and whim and happiness ahead of Katara. Who cares what she wants as long as Aang gets his prize, almiright?

[fancylala4]

Oh my god, the defenses that korra stans are using are so stupid.

“Well, it turns out that the next avatar doesn’t need the past lives for advice because they all lived in different time periods! How could the past avatars help when they never had a radio?”

Do they even hear themselves? This makes no sense at all. It doesn’t matter if they all lived different experiences in different time periods, past avatars only exist to give the current avatar advice and how they dealt with troubling experiences. The past avatars could also help the current avatar out. Heck, Aang literally helped korra got her bending back yet these stupid stans are claiming that past lives are useless because the past avatars never had a iPhone or radio.

[ekwolfwriter-blog]

I just want to get this out but I am getting tired of people complaining about Live action Katara's lack of rage in the show. Especially because now, because it is missing from the LA show, there is a general trend of people that were annoyed with her behavior before now are defending it being part of her character. And before people think I am hating on them, no. I am not against people defending her rage, as I liked it a lot growing up and watching the show causally just as the next person. Katara was one of my favorite character of being a kind person while also taking names and kicking butt, she was that awesome. So more defense for her the better. Hell, I would say from just the interviews I have seen of Kiawentiio, she has - to me - the Katara sass and I am living for it.

What I am hating on is that the Live action Katara is getting ragged on for a lot of reasons - some valid, but other are (in my opinion) surface level stupid and not knowing of what actually might have been going on during the filming of season and probably the mindset that caused her character to be deflated. Because there is a lot to consider as to why it had to be condensed either for conveniences sake or - in my personal opinion - was done on purpose by two individuals that have a track records of curving that behavior in Katara to their desire.

Also: DON'T use this as an excuse to attack the actress! She is doing her best and giving her all! She is doing her job and any slander on her will be instantly blocked! I will not take any slander on her or any of the actors!

Also, mid spoilers so read at your own risk near the bottom

First thing we should consider: the amount of episodes. Yes, I am aware of the telling and not showing arguments that are being flown around. I get it. Normally, I am one of the biggest supporters that this show needed time to breath and let be to show than telling. If it had more time to breath, Katara's rage might have been more visible and we could have had more time for her arc to improve. And this is not to say that they could not have been able to do it, but I will say that this show NEEDED more than 8 episodes to be able to get as much in (To be clear, there are some shows that this works for - Amazon's Reacher and Legend of Zorro have short seasons and formatted for hour long content. But it makes sense for those shows because they are working within parameters of their medium and are newer (both are adaptions of older stuff but still) shows that can play around with the format better). For as ambitious as this project is, it has a lot to condense. At least that it is a show and not a movie, but still. Let's not forget that it could have been so much worst if it was a movie.

Now some people will say, "Well if they were good enough writers then they could have done more to show than tell," which fair. I will admit that there are infinite number of ways that they could handled some of the topics: such as Sokka's sexism and Katara's rage that everyone is missing. But with the landscape of media as is where you would be damned if you do damned if you don't if you so much as talk about some sensitive topic and you could be canceled for it instantly! Which leads me to the next point!

Second thing to consider: Multiple season renewal was never confirmed prior. Yes, we can all complain that the shows pacing was out of place. Yes, they cut some filler. And yes, it feels like we are getting too much of the world building through talking and now showing. But can you really blame them? To most people, if you saw the reaction of the cast before the news came out, you can see they were saddened by the fact they thought would not get a season 2. They changed their tune when season 2 and 3 was confirmed, and honestly happy for them. But again, that confirms to me that the writing had failed mostly because if they were never going to get their chance, might as well go all out. And with how easy shows can get picked up and canceled, I can see they needed to try and cram it in.

Which also plays into Katara's rage - they did not know if there was going to be a chance for her to grow and get bending abilities or go through her arc as steady as the animated. Again, I am not saying losing it was good, but that we need consider that if they were not going to get another season, they had to progress faster than usual. (Side note, while I like this show, Amazon's Hazbin Hotel has the same problem. We are steam rolling through what could be slow progression and change but can't slow because of episode constriction and no time to sit and allow the show to progress because it is so easy to drop the show for the studios, might as well end it on a note that at least can feel like it was it's own story.)

Speaking of studios, that would be my next point as well: studio and producer control. While I know directors can have a say in it, we should not forget about the studio that is allowing them to make this show in the first place and what they are asking for. As I keep saying, we don't know about what their restrictions are or if they can have more than a certain amount of episodes, and maybe that is a mandate of Netflix or something else, we as the audience don't know. We don't know what happens on set or behind the filming outside of glimpses and interviews, so for all we know, there was some changes to the script or teleplay to make it seem like they needed to cut Katara's rage to make her more meek. Which if this was the whole show, fine, that is a choice but not one I will have to like. But when watching the 3rd and 4th episodes, seeing Katara being a teenage girl and angry for once and even more open about her emotions was possible. Hell, it was the only times she was allowed to snap. And guess what people: it was because of the writing this time. That feminine rage you all wanted - while faint - was there. So clearly Netflix is not solely at fault - they have many mistakes but writing is not one of them.

But it is when you look who wrote what and where and what they were going for that - to me - puts EVERYTHING into place!

Final point: the original creators being brought on.

This might seem weird because one would think having the creators on the original show should be not as bad. The creators of the show is watching to make sure that the show is just right and that the characters feel the same or at least some of the story beats feel similar enough to enjoy. Why would them being on the set cause issues with the pacing and writing?

To a casual fan, yeah that makes sense. But to those that have been in the fandom, have see what they do post cannon to ALL of the characters - especially how they treat Katara in Legend of Korra - then anyone watching might have realized that that should have been a warning sign. Especially with how they would have wanted to depict the characters. And this is also the reason I think Katara's rage is gone: I think they wanted to make her like the comics version of her being a meek and demure girl that while caring was not getting as angry or as passionate about things because that would go against what Bryke wanted Katara to be in the show.

As I mentioned before, Katara's rage or at least genuine anger was only in for about two episodes out of the 8. And if you take out the 5th and 6th where she has been basically damseled with Sokka in the spirit world, that leaves on 4 more episodes to allow her to have her anger. Typically, one can thing, "Okay we can sprinkle it here or there in the other two and it should world". But all it takes is to see who was writing the episodes that truly not only hinder the world building of the show and breaks the rules of show don't tell or crammed it in so blatantly it feels like cringe and got rid of Katara being the one to free Aang because of her anger - was Bryke! They were the ones that were the head writers of the first episode and the 8th episode. The ones that had the most cramming down your throats dialogue, the clunky explaining of Aang's character out of now where and even curving Katara's rage or ability to be angry or snarky like she was in the show. Because Bryke wrote them, and also teleplayed a few - this being like adding notes and what the camera needs to do and how to frame scenes along side the dialogue. Meaning that they had some hand in making Live Action Katara this way.

If you notice in the episodes they didn't write: Omashu and the Cave of Two lovers - they were the only ones where Katara could be a bit more snappy and a bit more annoyed and vocal toward at least Sokka and Jet - not a lot but it was there. And oh would you look at that, the episode that they did not write had HEAVY hints for a certain firebender and waterbender being hinted at and color coded the lovers more vividly. And also, Katara getting to be empathetic while also not over explaining - which many always ragged on her for - where she could be human for once. Those episodes were the ones that they did not write and the story was somewhat better (Not better but I will take it over what we got prior)

And again, casual viewers might not know why this is a bad thing or probably wondering why I am against Bryke. But all it takes is looking at what they did to animated Katara that you all try to say "Was perfect as she was before" without considering what they did to her after the curtain fell. For any fan that has been following the show, you will find that most fans of Katara - the animated one -did not like what they did to her in the comics that continued their story and Legend of Korra, where she was a husk of a shell of her former self. And how she was all about "What Aang would have done, and what Aang did and oh how I missed Aang, he would know what to do". And yet, if she even showed any anger or negative emotions, she was painted as the bad person - easily look up Katara in the comics with a google search and you can see her being pushed around and flattened almost all the time when she is showing negative emotions that are genuine and not the funny mad in the show. Especially in the show as seen through this post, it did not always paint her anger in a natural thing for her or reinforced her angry as more comedic than actually something to consider as important until someone else stepped in to help her see it *cough* Zuko *cough*.

So to all the people that are trying to come after the live action Katara as being "Not the same energy girl power character who was expressive about her anger" you all "loved from the start'', please consider who and what was behind the scenes to make her this way. Especially since the animated show had other writers besides Bryke that understood Katara better if not more. Bryke wanted her to be more demure even in the pilot, and damsel. And yet the other writers gave her an actual story. Byrke have shown time and time again they do not want and angry passionate water bender that wants to be more active in changing the wrongs in the world, they want her to be more meek and docile and not fight back to let others save her in the comics and after. The OG had other writers that gave her her arc and Mae Whitmen give her the sass that we all love.

Live action Katara is no different. She has been trying to come into her own - with limited time to tell a story, limited time to get her arcs in fearful of cancellation, and with different writers, she can work, but not with Bryke. Same goes for the other characters too, not just Katara, but it seems that everyone pokes at Katara more and it is getting frustrating because some of these people just can never be happy with Katara.

Hopefully with season 2 and 3, we can have more time to flesh out the characters and maybe even have more show don't tell moments and being able to explore their feelings more. But only time will tell.

Rant over, sorry for the rambling mess.

[atla4art]

you and rain DIE BITCH

wow @longing-for-rain now i got death threats in my asks too… and they mentioned you

jesus these aang and kataang stans and threatening real people, holy fucking shit

[disneydatass]

[rightwheretheyleftme]

I think that this fandom is overtly optimistic about 1) the showrunners’ writing abilities and 2) how much they respect Korra.

These are the same men who had an extended scene of Korra being tortured and moaning in pain, who made Korra’s torturer look at her from above and become her “healer”, who made Korra declare that she deserved to be abused because it made her “more empathetic”.

Besides, they always use the same trope of having the new Avatar solve the past one’s biggest mistake. Aang ended the 100 year old which Roku failed to do, Korra brought back the air nomads which Aang couldn’t do (that storyline was offensive as fuck but that’s a topic for another day). I think it’s far more likely that Korra unwillingly caused the destruction of the world and Pavi has to fix it. Does it suck? Yes, majorly- but Aang being a deadbeat also sucked and they did it anyways. We have to accept that the days of Avatar being a masterpiece ended in 2008.

Good lord the new Avatar series premise. I know Korra was 100% framed and that the Earth Avatar will most likely find out the truth and restore her reputation but damn. As a Korra lover it's gonna be tough to watch. Korra went to the Kuruk school of Avatars who took their jobs extremely seriously but whose legacies were warped or forgotten and they're blamed for the current situation. Why is it always a Water Avatar--

[sapphic-agent]

I foresee another decade of going to war for Korra in my future