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jaehaerysiitargaryen · 2 years ago

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A BREAKDOWN OF KING’S LANDING AND PARTS OF THE CROWNLANDS IN THE TWO YEARS SINCE THE DANCE WITH SOME CANON DETAILS FROM HERE.

@caetargaryen

The Royal House Targaryen; Queen Caerella Targaryen, King Consort Daeron Dondarrion, Prince Jaehaerys Targaryen, and Princess Jaehaera Targaryen. The Great Houses of The Crownlands: House Velaryon of Driftmark, House Sunglass of Sweetport Sound, House Cargyll, and House Celtigar The Queen’s Council; Hand of the Queen Lord Deimos Velaryon, Master of Coin Open Lord Celtigar, Master of Laws Lord Wylliam Swann, Master of Ships Open Second-Born Velayron, Mistress of Whispers Lady Lyra Celtigar, and the Open Commander of the Kingsguard. Religion; The Faith of the Seven, The Faith of Old Valyria (Royal Family, very prominent on Dragonstone because of it being the first landing of the Targaryens and the many, many Targaryen bastards), are Rhllorists are welcomed though they have no temples.

Geograhpy

Based around Blackwater Bay, with the capital of King’s Landing built where the Blackwater Rush meets the bay. King’s Landing is the largest city in Westeros containing the Great Sept of Baelor and the Red Keep.

The Settlements north of King’s Land include Antlers ( Seat of House Buckwell ), Rosby, ( Seat of House Rosby ), Stokeworth ( Seat of House Stokeworth ), and Duskendale ( Seat of House Darklyn ) the region’s secondary port. North of Duskendale are hills, fields, and woods. Near Duskendale are the lands and keep of House Hollard. Father north of Rook’s Rest ( Seat of House Brune ), Brownhollow (Seat of House Brune ) and the Whispers. The Bay of Crabs and the Vale of Arryn are North of Crackclaw Point.

With the Riverlands bordering the Northwest and West, a stream forms part of the boundary between the two regions. And unnamed river flowers south from the Gods Eye into the Blackwater Rush in the western Crownlands. Southwest of King’s Landing are hills around Tumbleton in the Reach.

To the South of King’s Landing is the kingswood, the royal hunting forest, and the Stormlands. The Wendwater flows the kingswood into the back. To the East is Massey’s Hook joining Crackclaw in forming the inlet of Blackwater Bay. Stonedance (Seat of House Massey) and Sharp Point ( Seat of House Bar Emmon )

Islands within Blackwater Bay include Dragonstone, Driftmark, Sweetport Sound, Massey’s Hook and Claw Isle.

The Kingsroad connects King’s Landing with Storm’s End to the South, and the crossroads to the north, while the capital is connected to Lannisport by the goldroad and Highgarden by the roseroad. The Rosby Road runs from King’s Landing toward Duskendale while Duskendale road heads north to Maidenpool in the Riverlands.

PEOPLE AND ECONOMY

The Metropolis of King’s Landing is the driving force of the region with the largest population and harbor in the realm. While there has been a hit with the drastic changes in tax revenue upon the realms separating from the Crownlands there have been efforts to make this work with the use of trade from the close lands of the East including Braavos, Pentos, Myr, Tyrosh, and Lys. There is a goal to Volantis and perhaps use parts of the Northern trade agreements.

Many foreign vessels ply their wares as well arriving on their ships and staying for many weeks before returning to the East. Virtually every craft and trade is practiced here, from metal smithing, shipbuilding, alchemy, and much more. Elsewhere, farming and fishing are the norm with a handful of the common professions to meet the needs of the towns and fisherfolk.

Along the kingsroad north of the capital, a traveler goes past woods and orchards and neatly tended fields, through small villages, crowded market towns, and stout holdfasts.

When the dust cleared from warm and the land settled, the process of rebuilding began utilizing what they could from the surrounding woods and trade agreements. With a renewal in trade and alliance with the North, the building process picked up with working starting on Summerhall, the rebuilding of the wall around King’s Landing, and putting the land and sea to work the Crownlands hopes to be seen as a place of prosperity.

DRAGONSTONE

For two centuries, before the Doom of Valyria, Valyrians settled Dragonstone and built a citadel as the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian Freehold. During this time the Targaryens came to control the island and is often considered the last piece of Valyria.

A volcanic island at the mouth of Blackwater Bay, Dragonstone is the second largest after Driftmark, created by the active volcano, Dragonmont. Damp and dreary, it smells of sulfur and brimstone. The island often suffers strong winds and storms in autumn. The castle is a small fortress located on the face of the volcano.

Within the tunnels of Dragonmont are rich chunks of dragonglass, often in bouldes and ledges. Most of the obsidian is black, but there are also deposits of green, purple, and red.

Farmers and fishermen live in the villages below the Dragonmont, the islanders depend on the sea for sustenance. Its nearby port contains taverns, inns, and whorehouses, including a weathered little inn at the end of a stone pier.

THE HALL OF THE GODS

Among the numerous changes taking place in King’s Landing, one of them is an addition to the Holy Road going up Viseny’s Hill to the Great Sept is a building of marble that will house the many statues of the Gods. The Seven and, slowly, the introduction of Valyrian Gods as it is on Dragonstone.

The Great Wall

As the wall is rebuilt to secure the safety of its people, more images at being carved into thick walls. Images of dragons, war, and gods. Closer to the Keep, you see more gods of Valyria.

The Shipyard

With the building of new ports to increase trade, there is a focus on building a better shipyard to increase production, so their royal fleet continues to grow. Along with warships there is a plan to start the process of more merchant ships.

Much like the rest of the realm, the Crownlands is in a period of rebuilding and growth. While there have been many changes implemented and building projects completed.

#.*. a new valyria. the crownlands.; worldbuilding

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gotcasting · 8 years ago

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Lothor Brune

Casey Affleck - 41 years old, American.

(Accent. Mop of matted hair.)

#Lothor Brune #knight #bear paw #freerider #Brownhollow #crownlands #serves Littlefinger

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goodqueenaly · 7 years ago

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House Words Wednesdays: House Brune of Brownhollow

Welcome to House Words Wednesdays! Each week, I take a House without known canon or semi-canon words and present what I think could make sense as that House’s motto. You’re free to suggest more as well, if your favored House has not yet been suggested; take a look at this link to see what has already been suggested, and shoot me an ask through Tumblr if you have another House you’d like to see done.

House Brune of Brownhollow is a noble House from the Crownlands, sworn (presumably) directly to the Crown (although given that Ser Bennard Brune, the Knight of Brown Hollow, is listed under Eustace Brune, Lord of the Dyre Den, in the AFFC Appendix, it might be that the lesser branch of the House is sworn to the senior). That the Brunes have long dwelled on Crackclaw Point seems evident from the colorful history lesson provided to Brienne by Nimble Dick Crabb: the “Brothers Brune” were, according to his account, a pair of great legendary heroes who “brought peace to the Point”, though not in any lasting manner (and, of course, they could not compare to the mighty Crabbs, at least in his telling). Nor have the Brunes lay dormant in Westerosi history, with Brunes joining their Crackclaw neighbors to fight for Rhaegar on the Trident and Crabbs and Brunes declaring for Rhaenyra during the Dance of the Dragons (perhaps remembering that other draconic queen, Visenya, who had first honored the Crackclaw Point families by swearing them directly to the crown). If the men of Crackclaw Point are considered poor and “half-wild” by the standard of other Westerosi Houses, however, the Brunes of Brownhollow are even farther down the table of ranks: Ser Bennard Brune is only a landed knight, doubtless living in pretty humble circumstances (not the least reason for their supporting Rhaegar on the Trident - if the mighty Darrys could lose much of their lands and wealth for backing the Targaryens, the already-minor Brunes of Brownhollow would probably have fared no better, and perhaps worse, after the Baratheon reckoning was done).

With such low expectations of their own standing and wealth, one might have expected Ser Bennard and his family to be somewhat more open to their poor relations. Yet when young Lothor Brune came calling at Brownhollow, Ser Bennard (or his father or other predecessor) all but shut the door in his face: whether they felt they had too many mouths to feed on too small an income as it was, or were doubtful of Lothor's true descent from a common Brune ancestor, or simply wanted to cling to whatever scrap of nobility they could by “preserving” the Brune castle and legacy for only the chosen blood, the Brunes were not remotely interested in recognizing Lothor as one of their own. To his credit, Lothor Brune has managed not only to make a career for himself, but to be a pretty decent person on top of that. He's proven himself in war, but more importantly he's defended Sansa, keeping Marillion from raping her and making her feel better after the rude greeting she received from Harry Hardyng. (I'm very hopeful that Lothor and Mya Stone get together in the future: his affection for her is obvious, Mya deserves a kind and loyal man after her absentee father and Mychel Redfort, and a knight of very modest noble birth would make a suitable match for a not-quite-acknowledged bastard daughter of a king.)

For the Brune words, I settled on Only Our Arms. The Brune of Brownhollow sigil is a bear paw, brown on white. I thought it fitting, given this sigil, that the Brunes would want to emphasize that they, like the bear, would rely only on the strength of their own arms. The spirit of Crackclaw Point is one of independence, with small proud lords honoring only their own local heroes and stridently resisting any attempt at outside conquest. Like the bear, which only hunts alone rather than in a pack or pride, the Brunes would keep their castle and their lands by their familial champions alone, rather than relying on some almighty overlord to rescue them. Certainly, Lothor Brune - despite the refusal of his castled cousins to take him in as one of them - has proven his worth as a Brune under these words, moving up from a landless barely-noble to a landed knight, captain of the guard, and trusted sword of the Lord of Harrenhal and Protector of the Vale. What I like as well about this motto, though, is how it reflects the poverty I expect the Brunes of Brownhollow have fallen into, especially of late. When their Crabb neighbors have sunk to such a state that one of its only known members became a prostitute in the capital, it might not be surprising that the Brunes would be pretty bad off themselves. The only mark of nobility they have is their arms - that is, their heraldry, fiercely guarded even as everything else crumbles into disrepair around them.

Let me know what you think of these words for House Brune of Brownhollow. Next week is another Crownlands House, thoughmore akin to thewould-be Celtigar overlords of Crackclaw Point than the Crackclaw Pointers themselves.

#asoiaf meta #house words #house words wednesdays #house brune of brownhollow #lothor brune

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esther-dot · 3 years ago

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Apparently Sansa shipping Mya and Lothor means she had no problems with older men. The way people justified pedophilia is disgusting. Mya was approx 19, lowborn and bastard and wasn't a maid. Sansa knew she was is relationship with Mychael. She only acknowledge that Lothor had soft corner for Mya which she told Myranda. She knew Mya can't be married to Mychael who is highborn and already bethroted which Cat also thought same.

An age gap between adults is totally different from an adult being interested in a child. They can't possibly think that works as a compelling argument.

And, the thing with Sansa is that she didn't randomly romanticize an older man, she noticed that Lothor, who has stepped in and saved her once, is interested in Mya, and then, in response to LF’s assertion that old men/young women are good together, she wonders if Mya likes Lothor too. She cares about what the girl thinks of this:

"She'll wait," Alayne said. "She has to wait."

"Don't be so certain, m'lady. She's half mule herself, that one. I think she'd leave us all to starve before she'd put those animals at risk." He smiled when he said it. He always smiles when he speaks of Mya Stone. Mya was much younger than Ser Lothor, but when her father had been brokering the marriage between Lord Corbray and his merchant's daughter, he'd told her that young girls were always happiest with older men. "Innocence and experience make for a perfect marriage," he had said.

Alayne wondered what Mya made of Ser Lothor. With his squashed nose, square jaw, and nap of woolly grey hair, Brune could not be called comely, but he was not ugly either. It is a common face but an honest one. Though he had risen to knighthood, Ser Lothor's birth had been very low. One night he had told her that he was kin to the Brunes of Brownhollow, an old knightly family from Crackclaw Point. "I went to them when my father died," he confessed, "but they shat on me, and said I was no blood of theirs." He would not speak of what happened after that, except to say that he had learned all he knew of arms the hard way. Sober, he was a quiet man, but a strong one. And Petyr says he's loyal. He trusts him as much as he trusts anyone. Brune would be a good match for a bastard girl like Mya Stone, she thought. It might be different if her father had acknowledged her, but he never did. And Maddy says that she's no maid either.

and that last part is Sansa understanding how her world works and that Mya's options are limited.

Also, I’m not sure that the point of this is really those characters or relationships with age gaps, but rather, Martin trying to push Sansa's own understanding along:

When Alayne returned to the winch room, she found Mya Stone waiting impatiently with Lothor Brune and Mord. She must have come up in the bucket to see what was taking us so long. Slim and sinewy, Mya looked as tough as the old riding leathers she wore beneath her silvery ringmail shirt. Her hair was black as a raven's wing, so short and shaggy that Alayne suspected that she cut it with a dagger. Mya's eyes were her best feature, big and blue. She could be pretty, if she would dress up like a girl. Alayne found herself wondering whether Ser Lothor liked her best in her iron and leather, or dreamed of her gowned in lace and silk. Mya liked to say that her father had been a goat and her mother an owl, but Alayne had gotten the true story from Maddy. Yes, she thought, looking at her now, those are his eyes, and she has his hair too, the thick black hair he shared with Renly.

because her view of love is still very fanciful, removed from the physical, intimate reality of love (lust/sex) which Myranda is quick to correct:

"Ser Lothor is fond of her." Alayne glanced down at the mule girl, twenty steps below. "More than fond."

"Lothor Brune?" Myranda raised an eyebrow. "Does she know?" She did not wait for an answer. "He has no hope, poor man. My father's tried to make a match for Mya, but she'll have none of them. She is half mule, that one."

Despite herself, Alayne found herself warming to the older girl. She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. "Do you think Ser Lothor likes her as she is, in mail and leather?" she asked the older girl, who seemed so worldly-wise. "Or does he dream of her draped in silks and velvets?"

"He's a man. He dreams of her naked." (AFFC, Alayne II)

Before, Sansa has been stripped naked or felt naked in conjunction with violence/violent men, and here, she has seen this decent guy who is obviously in love with a girl and had what that means brought down to the real world. I think that’s purposeful.

It is also interesting that while it's framed as gossip/girlish fun, rulers did have a say in marriages. We're told this is the business of kings, so I think Sansa's concern for the feelings of people, how quick she is to pick up on their affections/desires might have real significance going forward.

Anyway, I don't think you can read the Lothor/Mya stuff and come to the conclusion that the author is normalizing LF or the Hound or Tyrion's interest in Sansa. For starters, Lothor isn’t molesting/assaulting the girl he likes. Contrast. And, Lothor isn’t interested in Mya’s claim (she doesn’t have one), he’s interested in her. Contrast. The Lothor/Mya thing seems to be about genuine attraction to who the person is, and since the Hound was always insulting Sansa and Tyrion resented her and LF is intent on using her as a tool in his plans...well, it isn’t the same at all. I don’t know what Martin will do with it, but so far, the Lothor/Mya stuff just makes their favs look bad.

#ask dot

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greedofrage · 5 years ago

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Redtooth, Valyrian Sword of House Brune of Brownhollow. The Brunes of Brownhollow has had a great rivalry with their cousin family, the Brunes of Dyre Den, for centuries. According to those of Brownhollow, Redtooth was once owned by the eldest son of House Brune when it was first established who went on to settle in Dyre Den. The elder brother gave Redtooth to his younger brother as a great gift of their family bond. According to the Brunes of Dyre Den, the younger brother used a silver tongue to acquire Redtooth from the elder brother and demand it returned to the rightful family.

I originally drew this sword to have a similar appearance to Boromir’s sword from the Lord of the Ring’s but made sure to do enough that made it its own design. Unfortunately it went through several different redraws until it finally came like this. This is designed to be a chopping sword and meant to be used with a shield but can be used with two hands for extra power.

#Redtooth #House Brune #Valyrian Steel #Valyrian Steel sword #Fan art #Fan lore #Game of Thrones #A Song of Ice and Fire

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barnclan · 9 months ago

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Character asks are open! feel free to ask any of the BarnClan cats questions, or request Art!

#Clangen #Barnclan #warriorcats #warriorcat oc #Brownhollow #Inkstar #moonnose

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thebluelemontree · 6 years ago

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Hey Bluelemons. As a fellow Mya/Lothor shipper, what do you think will happen between them in Winds? And could help from Sansa be the straw that will make Lothor turn over to Sansa's service instead of LF's?

Oh, I am so rooting for them! I am always happy to talk a Mya/Lothor thing. There’s definitely potential there for something to happen between them and Sansa is positioned to be the catalyst. She totally ships it because reasons.

The connection between Sansa and Mya was set up way back in AGOT when we met the latter through Catelyn’s POV. Mya tells her about her love Mychel Redfort and that he’s promised they will marry after he is knighted. Right away, Catelyn relates her to Sansa in personality but sees how this dream will be inevitably crushed by reality:

“Mychel’s my love,” Mya explained. “Mychel Redfort. He’s squire to Ser Lyn Corbray. We’re to wed as soon as he becomes a knight, next year or the year after.”

She sounded so like Sansa, so happy and innocent with her dreams. Catelyn smiled, but the smile was tinged with sadness. The Redforts were an old name in the Vale, she knew, with the blood of the First Men in their veins. His love she might be, but no Redfort would ever wed a bastard. His family would arrange a more suitable match for him, to a Corbray or a Waynwood or a Royce, or perhaps a daughter of some greater house outside the Vale. If Mychel Redfort laid with this girl at all, it would be on the wrong side of the sheet.

And we know he did. What’s interesting is that Mya is near 20 years old, but her innocence and optimism is exactly like that of Sansa’s at 11. Coupled with her age, it’s not hard to guess that she’s probably not a virgin. It’s because Mya is so in love and implicitly trusting that Mychel would never abandon her that she consented to a sexual relationship with him. Mychel really had no right to make such a promise being raised with the knowledge that his father would make that decision for him. Mya is the one who assumes all the social risks and has the most to lose. Myranda points out this was a cruel thing for Mychel to do and I agree. When we see her again in Alayne II, she’s become closed off and bitter in her heartbreak after learning Mychel was wed to Ysilla Royce. The fact that she’s had pre-marital sex is a source of salacious gossip. This was a girl who had sex with one partner who she thought she was going to spend the rest of her life with. Now she’s slut-shamed with the bastard stereotype of being morally loose. It’s so unfair.

This is the second time in her life Mya has been profoundly affected by an irresponsible, careless man. Sansa and Mya are connected in a generational way to their fathers that cemented their friendship when they were fostered by Jon Arryn. Mya remembers being loved briefly by her father before he abruptly exited her life, not even bothering to give her the advantages of official acknowledgment. Again, she loved him, trusted he would be there and he left. So it’s no wonder why Mya has enormous trust issues now regarding relationships with men.

“Men come and go. They lie, or die, or leave you. A mountain is not a man, though, and a stone is a mountain’s daughter. I trust my father, and I trust my mules. I won’t fall.“ She put her hand on a jagged spur of rock, and got to her feet. “Best finish. We have a long way yet to go, and I can smell a storm."

Myranda says her father tried to make another match for Mya, but she refused to hear of it. She’s now leaning toward cynicism and becoming hard as a stone to protect herself from being hurt again. This passage is very much like Sandor placing his trust in his sword and posturing about never having to fear any man. There are also parallels to another passage, and they have some other significant character traits in common, but that’s a bit beyond the scope of the question. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) The point is Sansa has direct experience dealing with the essence of Mya’s hurts, both in her own shattered innocence and dreams as well as Sandor’s. And she was able to put dents in his cynicism. I don’t see why she couldn’t do the same with Mya.

As of TWOW, we can see that the old wound has reopened with the return of Mychel Redfort at the tourney:

“She was reading her little lord a tale of the Winged Knight when Mya Stone came knocking on the door of his bedchamber, clad in boots and riding leathers and smelling strongly of the stable. Mya had straw in her hair and a scowl on her face. That scowl comes of having Mychel Redfort near, Alayne knew.”

Here’s my interpretation of the details given. Unless Mya jumped into a pile of hay right before entering the room for some reason, the straw in the hair and stable smell is probably referencing the old cliche of “rolling in the hay.” Stables are often used as a choice place for a tryst. I get why Mya is scowling from personal experience. Sometimes in heartbreak, we become emotionally compromised and against our better judgment reconnect intimately with people that hurt us. We just want so badly to feel close to that person again that sometimes selfish assholes seeking an easy lay will take advantage of that. Mychel was obviously Mya’s first in many ways, and she was left reeling. In the end, she feels worse for being with him (hence the scowl) because it doesn’t change the fact that he’s married to Ysilla, she’s now relegated to a tawdry cliche and reminded again that a bastard girl shouldn’t have expected more. This looks bad for Mya being open to another relationship possibility, but it might just be the reason she finally closes the door on Mychel. At least we know, Mya actually isn’t as hard as stone as she claimed before. She still has a soft, vulnerable heart underneath.

I don’t know if GRRM will go this route, but where there is sex, there is a possibility of a pregnancy subplot. I would imagine that Mya does have access to moon tea through Myranda, but there’s no telling if she uses it or not. Just a thought...

As for Lothor, Sansa senses that he is quite fond of Mya. Not that he ever said so directly, but:

“She’s half mule herself, that one. I think she’d leave us all to starve before she’d put those animals at risk.” He smiled when he said it. He always smiles when he speaks of Mya Stone.”

^^^ I love that. Alayne II is such a pivotal chapter for Sansa developing a more mature understanding of love and relationships. She’s still somewhat caught up in her old way of thinking. At first, Sansa does the social class arithmetic to see if they would pair well on that level, but she also wonders how Mya would feel personally about Lothor. What would she think about his plain looks and him being a bit older? And what is it about her that attracts him most? She’s shipping it, but she’s still focused on the superficial.

"Do you think Ser Lothor likes her as she is, in mail and leather?” she asked the older girl, who seemed so worldly-wise. “Or does he dream of her draped in silks and velvets?”

“He’s a man. He dreams of her naked.”

Sansa is thinking about this the wrong way. It’s not Mya’s aesthetic that attracts Lothor. He’s into her as a person and that makes him desire her. Is that not Sansa’s expressed wish, to be loved for herself? This is true about most relationships in ASOIAF. People just want who they want. It’s irrelevant if they are conventionally attractive or unattractive, or if they defy or typify gender roles. That insight is another reason for Sansa to take action because it’s meaningful to her and helps her to understand her own desires. Lothor likes Mya’s stubborn feistiness. He likes that she loves her animals more than most people. I’m sure he’s heard the gossip too, but it doesn’t seem like her not being a virgin bothers him one bit. She’s got grit and courage similar to his own. The reason he probably hasn’t made a move is that she’s been giving off a strong vibe of not wanting any suitors and he may believe she wouldn’t want him. He’s older and not the gallant pretty boy that Mychel is. But tourneys are bristling with that romantic and sexual energy. If Sansa is going to play matchmaker, the timing is perfect.

Sansa’s experience with Lothor is that he’s a quiet, reserved man. But he’s strong, honest, steadfast, and loyal. He has no apparent vices or skeletons in the closet. How could you not love him for seeing Harry’s rudeness and dubbing him “Harry the Arse?” He and Sansa have developed a warm, affectionate friendship that I think speaks well of his character. He confided in her once that he sought out his knightly kin in Brownhollow, but was rejected by them. He seems to be a man adrift, without home or family. Everything he has, he’s earned himself the hard way. His knighthood came from acts of valor during the BotBW, not from tourney performance. That seems to be an important distinction GRRM is making between true knights and “knights of summer.” Lothor’s service to Littlefinger is more a matter of trying to earn a living and lack of better opportunities. There’s no sense that Lothor is any more loyal to LF than what’s expected of an employee to their employer. There’s some reason to be concerned as Lothor does know some of LF’s treasonous crimes and secrets. There’s probably going to be risk and danger in Lothor switching sides; however, Sansa has a sense that what Lothor really wants is a home and family. He’s mature and wanting to settle down. He’s not an irresponsible boy playing at manhood. I don’t know how much better he could be set up to be the balm for Mya’s broken heart and trust issues. The author is shipping this so hard!

So how could Sansa influence Mya to consider Lothor and in the process win his loyalty? Well, it is a tourney, and I would expect he will be competing in the joust. I’m 99% sure that LF has fixed the lists to ensure Harry is among the winners and Lothor is probably part of ensuring that happens. One possibility I thought of is if Sansa has a heart to heart with Mya about there still being good and loyal men in the world. There’s one that is standing on the sidelines and worthy of giving a chance. As much as it’s tempting to be cynical about love and relationships considering her own situation with Harry, at her core, I think Sansa is still that romantic and optimistic. I don’t see why she wouldn’t seize on this opportunity to see it happen when the reasons are so personally meaningful to her. Perhaps she could persuade Mya to give him her favor, and that could result in upsetting some of the expected outcomes. As Jorah told Dany, sometimes a lady’s favor drives a man to want to best all the competition. It changes the way he feels about himself and he wants to win for her. I, and I think Mya too, would be very satisfied to see Mychel Redfort unhorsed by him. Please, George, make it happen!

#summer-turtle #mya stone #lothor brune #sansa stark #mya x lothor #mychel redfort #littlefinger #petyr baelish #george ships #sansa ships it #lothor ships it #i hope mya ships it #she deserves a faithful and trustworthy man that adores her #the tourney favor was actually a plot point in my wip fan fic

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kittykatknits · 7 years ago

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Hi Kitty! I wanted to ask you do you think Oswell Kettleblack will have any major impact on Sansa's future storyline? I know that he knows Alayne's true identity and he's in LF employment (and also something of spy/intermediary sort of a person) and he had traveled hard to meet w/ LF in Alayne I WoW. Maybe to tell him abt his sons arrest? Do you think he'll blackmail LF re Sansa? Also could you clarify if he was mentioned in Tyrion's chapter in ADwD. Thanks!

Heya @rayofhouseprocrastination!! Cutting this for length.

OK, let’s tackle the easy one first:

“Queen Cersei."Penny shook her head. "She never … it was a man who came to us, in Pentos. Osmund. No, Oswald. Something like that. Oppo met with him, not me. Oppo made all of our arrangements. My brother always knew what to do, where we should go next.”“Meereen is where we’re going next.”

-Tyrion VIII, aDwD

That’s the only mention of a KB in Tyrion’s Dance chapters and it makes sense. Osmund (this is the one who is made a member of the KG, fyi) would have been in KL the entire time. Penny also got his name wrong here but we, as readers, know who she meant. I don’t think the KBs will play any further role in Tyrion’s storyline.

As for the rest, I don’t think so. The two hired swords most likely to play a large role in Sansa’s story are the Mad Mouse and Lothor Brune. The former is an obvious one, he knows Sansa’s identity and is probably planning an abduction or similar scheme. In that same ask, I wondered if Brune will end up being one of Littlefinger’s daggers in the dark.

We know LF set them up to spy on each other:

Ser Lothor knows as well. But Oswell has been in my service a long time, and Brune is close-mouthed by nature. Kettleblack watches Brune for me, and Brune watches Kettleblack.

- Sansa I, aFfC

But who is watching Brune and Sansa? I think the growing friendship between them is playing out under LF’s nose and he doesn’t realize it. At the end of SoS, he protected her and over the course of Feast we see respect growing between the two of them. By the end of that same book, Sansa shares this nugget:

Though he had risen to knighthood, Ser Lothor’s birth had been very low. One night he had told her that he was kin to the Brunes of Brownhollow, an old knightly family from Crackclaw Point. “I went to them when my father died,” he confessed, “but they shat on me, and said I was no blood of theirs.” He would not speak of what happened after that, except to say that he had learned all he knew of arms the hard way.

- Alayne II, aFfC

That’s…kinda a big confession for someone who is normally reserved and explicitly described by LF as close mouthed. Plus, this is in the gift chapter:

Near the keep, she ran headlong into Ser Lothor Brune and almost knocked him off his feet. “Harry the Heir? Harry the Arse, I say. He’s just some upjumped squire.”

Alayne was so grateful that she hugged him. “Thank you. Have you seen my father, ser?”

Sansa also knows he cares for Mya and smiles when she is mentioned, a fact I’ll bet LF also missed. If either of them are going to have an impact on her story, it’s Lothor Brune - not Oswell Kettleblack.

Now, for Oswell, the Merling King dropped all of them off at the Fingers before sailing for Braavos. It left Braavos and is now at Gulltown but if the ship spent time in another port, we have no knowledge of it. We do know that Littlefinger is still getting reports from KL though, as he tells us directly in Alayne II.

However, the ship came directly from Braavos which is where the Iron Bank is located. It also happens that Harys Swift is in Braavos to treat with the IB. The same IB that made loans to Stannis. I’m only speculating if those are related though, it depends on how well timelines match but I like the idea of this as a little nod to Arya’s storyline. My point is, whatever news KB brought Littlefinger, it is likely something he isn’t hearing about through his King’s Landing spies.

Whether or not Oswell Kettleblack will blackmail LF or attempt anything else AND be successful at it? Well, Oswell Kettleblack’s big problem is that he’s a Kettleblack. So, no.

#sansa stark #sansa stark meta #lothor brune #oswell kettleblack #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #my meta #asks #feel free to ask #feel free to ignore

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nobodysuspectsthebutterfly · 7 years ago

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at what point do you go from being a son of a major house to being a cadet house to just being some dude with a good name? if jaime had married and had children (purely for genealogical debate purposes), would they also be lannisters of casterly rock while tywin was still alive, prior to jaime becoming lord of the rock? what if tyrion married, had children, but did not inherit because jaime did? are his children lannisters of the rock? (1/2)

(2/2) if tyrion buys a tower and sets up home in it, is it a cadet house? is tyrion a lannister of the rock, but not his kids? if his kids wander out to be traveling knights, are they lannisters of his cadet house? if they go marry innkeepers and live from home, are THOSE kids then finally not lannisters of the rock but just bob and tom lannister? are there rules? thanks!

Hey! First of all, cadet houses are not originally an ASOIAF thing – they’re a real-world historical thing. See the wikipedia article for “cadet branch”, that should answer many of your questions. GRRM has put a few of his own twists on the concept, though, so let me explain.

A cadet house in Westeros is created when a younger son or junior branch, not in the direct line of inheritance, is granted or acquires his/their own lands and castle and forms a new branch of the main house. Some examples:

House Greystark: thousands of years back, a younger son of House Stark and his family were granted the Wolf’s Den on land that would eventually become White Harbor. The Greystarks were around for five hundred years before they joined with the Boltons to rebel against House Stark, which ended badly for them; they are now extinct.

House Karstark: founded a thousand years ago by Karlon Stark, who was granted lands for his valor and built the castle Karl’s Hold. The name of the castle eventually shifted to Karhold, and over time the Karhold Starks became Karstarks. Their motto, “the sun of winter”, is a punning reference to their originator, a son of House Stark.

House Lannister of Lannisport: founded thousands of years ago, when there were too many junior branch Lannisters to fit in Casterly Rock anymore. Instead of expanding the tunnels of the Rock, they moved into a village a mile away and turned it into a town, then a city. Note, the Lannisters of Lannisport are only distantly related to the Lannisters of Casterly Rock (though probably some younger sons have married into them within the past couple hundred years) and have no real claim to the Rock.

House Blackfyre: a cadet house of House Targaryen, founded about 120 years ago by a legitimized bastard of King Aegon IV, who was granted lands by the Blackwater by his half-brother King Daeron II in respect of their late father’s wishes. Soon rebelled against the Targaryens, leading to five Blackfyre Rebellions; were exiled from Westeros, and are extinct in the male line.

House Fossoway of New Barrel: founded about 100 years ago when a cousin from a younger branch of House Fossoway finally had enough of his main-line cousin’s assholery – he changed his sigil to a green apple instead of a red one, and at some point acquired his own lands and castle. In current Westeros, characters often distinguish between the red-apple or green-apple Fossoways.

House Royce of the Gates of the Moon: uncertain when they were founded (at least 50 years ago), but the lord of the junior branch of House Royce of Runestone has been serving as the Keeper of the Gates of the Moon (an Arryn castle) for some years now. (The Keepers are traditionally Arryn kinsmen, note.) Recently they were granted the title and the castle in perpetuity by the Lord Protector of the Vale.

House Baratheon of King’s Landing and House Baratheon of Dragonstone: founded after Robert’s Rebellion, when Robert Baratheon became king of Westeros, and granted the Baratheon lands and castle of Storm’s End to his youngest brother Renly, and the formerly Targaryen castle and lands of Dragonstone to his younger brother Stannis. As the eldest son of House Baratheon, Robert could have reserved both Storm’s End and Dragonstone for his own potential sons, and left his brothers to fend for themselves, but he was carelessly generous instead. Note, the King’s Landing Baratheons currently use a split Baratheon/Lannister sigil, and the Dragonstone Baratheons use a sigil of the heart of R’hllor with the Baratheon crowned stag inside.

House Frey of Riverrun: The family of Emmon Frey and Genna Lannister, granted Riverrun after the Tullys were attainted by the crown, as part of the rewards for the Frey participation in the Red Wedding. (Note this does not include lordship over the Riverlands; that belongs to House Baelish of Harrenhal.) See also House Bolton of Winterfell and House Lannister of Darry.

Regarding your specific questions:

If Jaime had married and had children, would they also be Lannisters of Casterly Rock while Tywin was still alive? Yes, certainly, especially since Jaime is the eldest son and heir of Tywin. (I’m assuming this is in a no Kingsguard Jaime AU of course.) Note that Tywin was a Lannister of Casterly Rock when his grandfather Gerold the Golden was still alive, and Tywin’s younger brother Kevan and his family are Lannisters of Casterly Rock, and Tywin’s uncle Jason’s descendants are Lannisters of Casterly Rock. There’s a lot of Lannisters of Casterly Rock. (This family tree may not even be all of them.) Casterly Rock is big. There’s plenty of room for Lannisters.

What if Tyrion married, had children, but did not inherit because Jaime did? Are his children Lannisters of the Rock? Yes, as long as they keep living in Casterly Rock, see the above question.

If Tyrion buys a tower and sets up home in it, is it a cadet house? You can’t just buy a tower in Westeros, this is feudalism, all lands and castles belong to some lordly or knightly house already, and they don’t get sold. (He could buy a house in a city, but cities are different - ask @racefortheironthrone for the reasons why.) But Tyrion could be granted a tower, mind you. Or a castle. Tywin, for example, wanted to give Tyrion Winterfell. (Or the chance to capture Winterfell, at least.) If that had succeeded, Tyrion and Sansa’s children would likely found the cadet House Lannister of Winterfell. (Yes, it’s possible to have cadet houses in different regions of Westeros – see House Kenning.) It would be similar if Tyrion were granted lands and a castle in the Westerlands, although Tywin wouldn’t be likely to give him any such thing. (Jaime might, if Jaime were lord; but if Jaime were lord, Tyrion probably wouldn’t want to move out of the Rock.)

Is Tyrion a Lannister of the Rock, but not his kids? Tyrion would likely always consider himself to be a Lannister of the Rock, even if he formed a cadet house, and his kids might as well. Cadet houses are sometimes formed over time – see the Karstarks, who possibly considered themselves Starks of Winterfell who happened to live in Karl’s Hold for the first generation or two. But if a major family division was what caused the cadet house (see the green-apple Fossoways), then the choice to be associated with the new castle would encourage the separation. In the case of the theorized Lannisters of Winterfell, see the Freys of Riverrun or the Lannisters of Darry – the association of the new cadet house with the castle is part of the conquering of that castle and lands, to show both dominance over it and a connection to its smallfolk.

If his kids wander out to be traveling knights, are they Lannisters of his cadet house? Yes. See Ser Lothor Brune, a freerider who is related to the knightly cadet branch House Brune of Brownhollow, not the lordly main branch House Brune of the Dyre Den. (His sigil is the Brune of Brownhollow bear paw, distinguished by the apple cores of the Fossoways he slew and captured at the Battle of the Blackwater, from which he gained his knighthood.)

If they go marry innkeepers and live from home, are THOSE kids then finally not Lannisters of the Rock but just Bob and Tom Lannister? If they go and marry innkeepers they’ve married into trade, the horror. But they’re still a cadet branch of House Lannister. See the Arryns of Gulltown, a cadet branch who married merchants and are rich, though they’re considered uncouth and nobody talks about them. You’ve got to really suffer defeats to lose your status of nobility but keep your name – though that can happen, see the Heddles, who are innkeepers and considered smallfolk or as close to middle class as Westeros gets, but who are the descendants of a landed knight. (BTW, you’re suggesting the names Bob and Tom Lannister as a joke, but this is a family with a Jason, Dave, Kevin, and Gerry, so it’s not that off.)

Are there rules? The rules are what you make of them. It’s a matter of custom and tradition and societal acceptance, not law as such.

I hope that helps!

#madamovary #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #cadet houses #westeros laws and customs #house lannister #tyrion lannister #house lannister of lannisport #house greystark #house karstark #house blackfyre #house fossoway #house royce #house baratheon #house frey #lothor brune #house arryn #house heddle #long post

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