#borroq

[thelustybraavosimaid]

The wargs were the most numerous in that company, the wolf-brothers, but the boy had found the others stranger and more fascinating. Borroq looked so much like his boar that all he lacked was tusks... (Prologue, ADwD)

--

"The lad's a warg, or close enough," put in Ragwyle, the big spearwife. "His wolf took a piece o' Halfhand's leg."

The Weeper's red rheumy eyes gave Jon another look. "Aye? Well, he has a wolfish cast to him, now as I look close.[...]" (Jon I, ASoS)

--

He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. (Prologue, ADwD)

--

Amongst the riders came one man afoot, with some big beast trotting at his heels. A boar, Jon saw. A monstrous boar. Twice the size of Ghost, the creature was covered with coarse black hair, with tusks as long as a man's arm. Jon had never seen a boar so huge or ugly. The man beside him was no beauty either; hulking, black-browed, he had a flat nose, heavy jowls dark with stubble, small black close-set eyes.

"Borroq." Tormund turned his head and spat.

"A skinchanger." It was not a question. Somehow he knew.

...

The skinchanger stopped ten yards away. His monster pawed at the mud, snuffling. A light powdering of snow covered the boar's humped black back. He gave a snort and lowered his head, and for half a heartbeat Jon thought he was about to charge. To either side of him, his men lowered their spears.

"Brother," Borroq said. (Jon XII, ADwD)

-----------

In the dark, the direwolf's red eyes looked black. He nuzzled at Jon's neck, silent as ever, his breath a hot mist. The wildlings called Jon Snow a warg, but if so he was a poor one. He did not know how to put on a wolf skin, the way Orell had with his eagle before he'd died. (Jon III, ADwD)

--

The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it. (Prologue, ADwD)

--

Marsh hesitated. "Lord Snow, I am not one to bear tales, but there has been talk that you are becoming too…too friendly with Lord Stannis. Some even suggest that you are…a…"

A rebel and a turncloak, aye, and a bastard and a warg as well. Janos Slynt might be gone, but his lies lingered. (Jon III, ADwD)

--

"Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change."

--

Perched above the window, the Old Bear's raven peered down at him with shrewd black eyes. My last friend, Jon thought ruefully. And I had best outlive you, or you'll eat my face as well. Ghost did not count. Ghost was closer than a friend. Ghost was part of him. (Jon III, ADwD)

--

Jon smelled Tom Barleycorn before he saw him. Or was it Ghost who smelled him? Of late, Jon Snow sometimes felt as if he and the direwolf were one, even awake. The great white wolf appeared first, shaking off the snow. A few moments later Tom was there.

...

Ghost nuzzled up against his shoulder, and Jon draped an arm around him. He could smell Horse's unwashed breeches, the sweet scent Satin combed into his beard, the rank sharp smell of fear, the giant's overpowering musk. He could hear the beating of his own heart. When he looked across the grove at the woman with her child, the two greybeards, the Hornfoot man with his maimed feet, all he saw was men. (Jon VII, ADwD)

[iceywolf24]

Borroq and the other free folk skinchangers when Bran gets south of the wall

The Greenseer radar starts going off.

[dyannawynnedayne]

Magic User Slapfight: Round .5

Borroq: art from 2014 ASOIAF Calendar, AWOIAF Page

Daeron: art by grandkhan221b, AWOIAF PAGE

BRACKET LINK

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

I think it’s interesting that a particular refrain keeps appearing in Jon’s inner monologue about the Horn of Winter.

They’re not wearing skins, Jon realized. That’s hair. Shaggy pelts covered their bodies, thick below the waist, sparser above. The stink that came off them was choking, but perhaps that was the mammoths. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. He looked for great swords ten feet long, but saw only clubs. Most were just the limbs of dead trees, some still trailing shattered branches. A few had stone balls lashed to the ends to make colossal mauls. The song never says if the horn can put them back to sleep. [..] “So how did you come by your other names?” Jon asked. “Mance called you the Horn-Blower, didn’t he? Mead-king of Ruddy Hall, Husband to Bears, Father to Hosts?” It was the horn blowing he particularly wanted to hear about, but he dared not ask too plainly. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. Is that where they had come from, them and their mammoths? Had Mance Rayder found the Horn of Joramun, and given it to Tormund Thunderfist to blow?(Jon II, ASoS)

Lady Melisandre watched him rise. “FREE FOLK! Here stands your king of lies. And here is the horn he promised would bring down the Wall.” Two queen’s men brought forth the Horn of Joramun, black and banded with old gold, eight feet long from end to end. Runes were carved into the golden bands, the writing of the First Men. Joramun had died thousands of years ago, but Mance had found his grave beneath a glacier, high up in the Frostfangs. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. Ygritte had told Jon that Mance never found the horn. She lied, or else Mance kept it secret even from his own. (Jon III, ADWD)

Jon turned in his saddle, frowning. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter and woke giants from the earth. That huge horn with its bands of old gold, incised with ancient runes … had Mance Rayder lied to him, or was Tormund lying now? If Mance’s horn was just a feint, where is the true horn? (Jon XII, ADWD)

Repeated phrases in a character’s inner monologue are always important to their development (e.g., “promise me, Ned” or “wherever whores go”). The refrain “And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth” is repeated four times in Jon’s. That may not seem like much, but then we get to Jon’s final chapter in ADWD:

Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun howled again and gave Ser Patrek’s other arm a twist and pull. It tore loose from his shoulder with a spray of bright red blood. Like a child pulling petals off a daisy, thought Jon. “Leathers, talk to him, calm him. The Old Tongue, he understands the Old Tongue. Keep back, the rest of you. Put away your steel, we’re scaring him.” Couldn’t they see the giant had been cut? Jon had to put an end to this or more men would die. They had no idea of Wun Wun’s strength. A horn, I need a horn. He saw the glint of steel, turned toward it. “No blades!” he screamed. “Wick, put that knife …”

It’s a rather peculiar narrative choice to have Jon think about needing a horn to command a giant right before his death. Especially since the Horn of Winter’s very purpose is to wake (and potentially command) giants, whom Jon has been in communion with since ASoS.

The fandom at large believes the old, chipped warhorn in Sam’s possession might be the Horn of Winter. While that’s a great theory, I think there’s an important narrative distinction to make: the Horn of Winter exists squarely in Jon’s storyline. Though Sam’s POV has made callbacks to the warhorn, signaling that GRRM wants us to remember its existence, the Horn of Winter’s lore and purpose are explored exclusively in Jon’s chapters. Even when it appears in Sam’s narrative, it’s tied directly to Jon through their conversations. Sam’s warhorn may be a Chekhov’s gun, but resolution to the Horn of Winter must come through Jon’s arc. Its purpose has always resided with him, so he should be the one to blow it.

[skin-bible]

Ough does anyone wanna add me to their car insurance policy

[aegor-bamfsteel]

What happened to Alys and Sigorn? I noticed that Jon never mentions them again after the wedding which is kinda weird. Did they leave to retake Karhold?

You’re right, they’re not mentioned by name after Jon X ADWD, when his final chapter is Jon XIII. What’s more, the Thenns themselves were last mentioned in Jon XI (takes place directly after the wedding) when he mentions their bronze weapons when Leathers asks how the Free Folk will fight the Others, implying they’re still there. The Thenns are mentioned more often than their Magnar, and known for being disciplined fighters. They’d be good allies for Jon to take Winterfell, especially since he and their new lady Alys seem to part in good terms, but no Thenns are mentioned among the Free Folk in Jon XIII, either in the Shieldhall at his right (Soren Shieldbreaker sat with his arms crossed against his chest. Farther back, Jon saw Gavin the Trader and Harle the Handsome whispering together. Ygon Oldfather sat amongst his wives, Howd Wanderer alone. Borroq leaned against a wall in a dark corner.”) or cheered their support for him (“Soren Shieldbreaker was on his feet, the Wanderer as well. Toregg the Tall, Brogg, Harle the Huntsman and Harle the Handsome both, Ygon Oldfather, Blind Doss, even the Great Walrus”) and it seems most Freefolk leaders have come to the ShieldHall (though not all, like Halleck or Kyleg) who haven’t already been sent somewhere else (Morna to Queensgate, Devyn to Greenguard). Given the absence of any Thenns at the Shieldhall meeting in Jon XIII (which seemed to contain most Free Folk leaders, making Sigorn not being there seem notable), it’s probably fair to assume Sigorn, Alys, and the remaining Thenns had already left Castle Black for Karhold. Although you’re right; GRRM probably should’ve made them leaving more apparent.

[greenbloods]

this post is really just for an audience of me but hilda season 3 episode 3 has such asoiaf jon snow vibes. the giants that once roamed the earth are disappearing as the world has grown too small for them (oh i am the last of the giants). the roots of the tree are ancient and deep, passing through all of time, because the oak is the acorn and the acorn is the oak (a thousand human years are a moment to the weirwoods). the protagonists white wolf starts beefing with the antagonists boar (borroq's boar parallel). this episode was tailormade for me. 8/10

[rosaluxembae]

"Amongst the riders came one man afoot, with some big beast trotting at his heels. A boar, Jon saw. A monstrous boar. Twice the size of Ghost, the creature was covered with coarse black hair, with tusks as long as a man's arm. Jon had never seen a boar so huge or ugly. The man beside him was no beauty either; hulking, black-browed, he had a flat nose, heavy jowls dark with stubble, small black close-set eyes.

"Borroq." Tormund turned his head and spat.

"A skinchanger." It was not a question. Somehow he knew"

Well done genius, was it your magic warg powers that told you that?

[wallboys]

i think it would be funny if borroq waited a good 6 hours before telling anyone about the skinchanger second life thing

[thebluelemontree]

Hi there, I have two questions regarding the following scene from Jon XII, ADWD:

“The skinchanger stopped ten yards away. His monster pawed at the mud, snuffling. A light powdering of snow covered the boar's humped black back. He gave a snort and lowered his head, and for half a heartbeat Jon thought he was about to charge. To either side of him, his men lowered their spears.

"Brother," Borroq said.

"You'd best go on. We are about to close the gate."

“You do that," Borroq said. "You close it good and tight. They're coming, crow." He smiled as ugly a smile as Jon had ever seen and made his way to the gate. The boar stalked after him. The falling snow covered up their tracks behind them.”

Firstly, do you think Greenseers and/or those who experience green dreams (E.g. Jojen Reed and Bran Stark) are considered part of the sort of loose brotherhood of Wargs and Skinchangers, in Wildling cultures beyond the Wall, as depicted here between Jon Snow and Borroq? Secondly, what exactly is Borroq smiling about in this scene?

Our first introduction to Borroq is from a gathering of skinchangers and wargs recounted in Varamyr's memory. Why they have meetings and what they discuss is not really clear. But it does seem like those born in that one-in-a-thousand chance are in the club. In First Men cultures that are less impacted by the Faith/southern culture, skinchanging, green dreams, green seeing, and magic are simply understood to be a thing and the gifted are both feared and honored. Being occasionally hunted and killed out of superstitious fears is probably a reason why they do network from time to time, maybe to keep tabs on each other, even if there can be bad blood among individuals or even if they disagree on some fundamentals. As we can see in Varamyr's POV, not every skinchanger plays by the rules Haggon lays out. Most seem to do their own thing.

Any kinship that extends to people with other gifts seems to be looser still, but they do intersect with each other occasionally. Jojen was visited by a three-eyed crow as he lay near death from greywater fever and was given the gift of green dreams. After Jojen tells his father, Howland Reed (who is described as an adept mage, but does not have prophetic visions), about his green dreams, HR sends his children to Winterfell to guide Bran as much as they can as his powers awaken. They are able to offer Bran some general knowledge about green magic/skin changing like you can't get sustenance by eating in Summer's body; however, they still must deliver Bran to an actual greenseer that can train him in the gifts they don't have. And we expect HR to reveal himself in the third act to do whatever it is he's going to do. High chance a mage that went to Isle of Faces University doesn't just exist to deliver paternity info.

As for Borroq himself, we simply don't know enough about him to really know what his deal is, but we might be able to infer some things to speculate. Tormund obviously has some contempt for him. Maybe not as much as he had for Varamyr, but seems he would rather not keep his company. Boars were among the animals Haggon warned Varamyr not to skinchange into because of how they can change a person. With that said, Borroq's boar is absolutely massive ("twice the size of Ghost") with sword-like tusks as long as a man's arm, indicating this is a fully mature boar that's been well-fed for many a season. It also hasn't had any predators or habitat constraints to stop it from growing so abnormally large. A normal-sized boar can fuck you up. This one is practically a forest god and it could probably mow through its enemies like a combine harvester. So it's safe to say Borroq himself might be as dangerous as his boar.

Why Haggon mistrusts keeping boars is only a guess. He could be absorbing some of his own wolf, Greyskin's, instincts toward other animals. Wolves do hunt smaller boars but may be mortally wounded trying to take on a larger one. Ghost is certainly going a little crazy with the scent of a prey animal nearby. Jon orders them separated or else a bloody fight could break out, one Ghost may not survive. But Haggon may have other reasons. Not only are boars so strong and fierce they've been known to kill many an experienced hunter, but they are also highly adaptable omnivores, and they can eat small animals, even carrion.

Okay, bear with me here while I indulge in a bit of speculation, and I promise I am making my way toward answering your question. Take this next part with a HEFTY amount of salt. Does Borroq's boar, or maybe Borroq himself, have a taste for carrion?

Until such time, Borroq had taken up residence in one of the ancient tombs beside the castle lichyard. The company of men long dead seemed to suit him better than that of the living, and his boar seemed happy rooting amongst the graves, well away from other animals. -- Jon XIII, ADWD.

Resorting to eating decaying flesh (sometimes even human) isn't unheard of in the harsh wilderness when the only choice is that or starve; however, boars are natural survivors because they can eat practically anything. The boar is shown to be rooting around the graves, which could be an attraction to the scent of decay. Bran relished eating bloody deer meat in Summer's skin, so I don't think the urge to eat whatever the animal naturally wants would be any different. If a skinchanger has eaten carrion often enough while inhabiting a boar, maybe when the circumstances are not quite that dire, it could change the man in ways others might find ghastly and disturbing, even if the flesh is animal and not human. Lots of hardened wildlings are inured by death, but Borroq gives off these morbidly cozy, comfy vibes being around the dead. Major goth edgelord shit there.

I'm not suggesting Borroq does the actual butchering of any people himself for the purpose of eating them, but being an occasional carrion-eater or nibbling on the recently deceased (instead of immediately burning them as custom strictly dictates) would certainly be enough to earn someone a bit of a ghoulish reputation, hence Tormund's reaction to his presence. Haggon makes this clear that if a skinchanger crosses the line into eating humans, he wouldn't be just gross, but fucking cursed. "Men may eat the flesh of beasts and beasts the flesh of men, but the man who eats the flesh of man is an abomination." I could be way off and being too literal here with the lichyard bit. There could be a multitude of reasons why Tormund dislikes Borroq. Spitting on the ground might just be a display of general contempt, but it is also commonly believed in many real-world cultures that spitting on the ground is an effective way to ward off The Evil Eye. GRRM could be borrowing that signifier. Like there's bad juju surrounding this guy. Wildlings do believe certain people are cursed for violating taboos like Craster is considered cursed for his blatant offense to the gods. So, I don't know. We'll see. Borroq does feel like a minor character that managed to distinguish himself when given the spotlight, and I suspect he'll be fleshed out more in TWOW.

Regardless, in the literary sense, he's aligned with death in this scene. He's like the specter of the Stranger, who is sometimes depicted as half-man, half-beast, just nonchalantly loitering around the tombs and graves. His boar is busy digging up a fresh hole in the ground like someone(s) is due to croak very soon... Oh yeah. This is Jon XIII: the mutiny chapter. This would not be the first time in this series a very large boar was associated with an assassination and sudden regime change. It's also not the first time an agitated direwolf has been chained up (for everyone's safety ha!) while its warg got assassinated by men sworn to them. If Borroq and his boar are a portent of death, hidden in plain sight, then Jon is blind to it. Jon can only think "the last thing I need right now is Ghost savaging that boar," at a time when it would have been wiser to keep his direwolf close. In superstitious thinking, the howling of restless dogs is said to be a sign that trouble is near; Ghost is mute, however, but is still definitely flipping out. He's pacing around his confinement, bristling, bearing his teeth, and snapping at Jon. Even Mormont's raven is calling his name over and over like they are trying to get his attention. Yes, it's on account of that boar, but not the literal boar. The boar that means he's about to get the ol' heave-ho via knife. Repeated misunderstanding of this communication speaks to Jon being unable to read the signs orbiting around him. He's had a case of tunnel vision and has taken some things for granted like the continued obedience of the mutineers, who will decide new leadership is in order. He doesn't fully appreciate the extent to which his soon-to-be-assassins feel he has betrayed them and the mission of the Watch. But back to Borroq. There's a dark ironic humor to Borroq calling Jon "brother." Jon is both a brother skinchanger and a black brother. Just a short time ago they were all still mortal enemies. Necessity has forced them all to the same side. Now wildlings are pledged to help defend the Wall against the Others, making them de facto brothers of the Night's Watch. The world's gone topsy-turvy. Those old hatreds do not get put aside so easily, and there is growing discontent within the NW over Jon's executive decisions. On second reading, his ugly smile and the "yup, close that gate up good and tight cause they're coming tee hee" feel like GRRM taking a bit of wicked glee in teasing what is about to happen. In many ways, Jon has invited the Stranger in through the front door, completely unaware he's sealed himself up inside with the more immediate threat.

In fact, it's Borroq's question that stirs up the controversial announcement that will drive the assassins into action only moments later. "And where will you be, crow?" Borroq thundered. "Hiding here in Castle Black with your white dog?"

"No. I ride south." Then Jon read them the letter Ramsay Snow had written. [Jon makes his plans clear and asks for volunteers to ride with him]

...

I have my swords, thought Jon Snow, and we are coming for you, Bastard.

Yarwyck and Marsh were slipping out, he saw, and all their men behind them. It made no matter. He did not need them now. He did not want them. No man can ever say I made my brothers break their vows. If this is oathbreaking, the crime is mine and mine alone.

And that's all we really see or know about Borroq, which is not much. We don't know anything about his backstory or what his motivations might be or what he will do in the wake of the mutiny. He certainly is a character that makes an impression. I do hope we get to see that boar go feral on a bunch of wights XD

[nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma]

[mummer]

the tl is very wildling king jon rn.. literally could not be happier, more joyous etc

[the-perfunctorily]

Keep thinking about the ending of Royal Assassin in the context of Jon’s potential resurrection in TWOW. I’ve been assuming all this time that people will know about him coming back, that it will happen in front of a lot of people or at least with the knowledge of a lot of people at castle black and he will start doing things in the public eye as Jon right away. But what if, like with Fitz, it happens in secret and Jon is believed to have stayed dead for most of TWOW.

[dyannawynnedayne]

Magic User Slapfight

Hello everyone!

We have the bracket for our next poll-- Magic User Slapfight. In this poll, we will vote for our favorite magic user. Due to the number of characters on the poll, we will be doing an elimintation round first, to see how goes to the true Round One. Expect the polls shortly!

Round 0.5

Yna vs. Aegon I Targaryen

Danelle Lothston vs. The Kindly Man

Borroq vs. Daeron the Drunken

Serenei of Lys vs. The Waif

Rossart vs. Daemon II Blackfyre

Orell vs. Nettles

Hallyne vs. Marwyn

Benerro vs. Mirri Maz Duur

Malora Hightower vs. Quaithe

Tyanna of the Tower vs. The Ghost of High Heart

Pyat Pree vs. Shiera Seastar

Daenys the Dreamer vs. Mother Mole

Varamyr Six-Skins vs. Patchface

Moqorro vs. Maggy the Frog

[jackoshadows]

What do you think will be the political ramifications of Jon's death? I think the free folk won't have it. It will be really chaotic.

The Freefolk are most definitely not having it. At this point Jon Snow is more or less their King Beyond the Wall. They are ready to fight for him. The last Jon chapter makes that clear.

“The Night’s Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless …” Jon paused. “… is there any man here who will come stand with me?”

The roar was all he could have hoped for, the tumult so loud that the two old shields tumbled from the walls. Soren Shieldbreaker was on his feet, the Wanderer as well. Toregg the Tall, Brogg, Harle the Huntsman and Harle the Handsome both, Ygon Oldfather, Blind Doss, even the Great Walrus. I have my swords, thought Jon Snow, and we are coming for you, Bastard. - Jon, ADwD

Jon has not only let the Freefolk this side of the Wall, he has also let them keep their Gods (Unlike Stannis), not asked them to bend the knee and given them charge of some of the castles on the Wall and leadership positions at Castle Black. When the assassination happens, Jon hears the Freefolk leaving the Shieldhall behind him:

Men poured from the surrounding keeps and towers. Northmen, free folk, queen’s men - Jon, ADwD

Jon has given Oakenshield and Queensgate - the two castles on either side of Castle Black - to Tormund Giantsbane and Morna White Mask. Tormund and his men are already there when the mutiny happens. Morna and her spearwives are on their way and are most probably already there when everything goes south. So are Iron Emmett and his spearwives. Add Borroq and his giant boar and Wun Wun to the mix and the mutineers don’t stand a chance in the immediate aftermath.

The only obstacle I can see to the Freefolk going berserk is an obstacle that Jon Snow himself created - the child hostages. These children have been send to Eastwatch and the Shadow Tower. With Cotter Pyke at Hardhome, it’s now Ser Glendon Hewett who holds Eastwatch.

Though the last part troubles me. Glendon Hewett was a seasoned man and a strong one, a sensible choice to command in Cotter Pyke’s absence. But he was also as much a friend as Alliser Thorne could boast, and a crony of sorts with Janos Slynt, however briefly. Jon could still recall how Hewett had dragged him from his bed, and the feel of his boot slamming into his ribs. Not the man I would have chosen - Jon, ADwD

I am not sure which way the Queensmen will move. On the one hand Wun Wun ripping apart Ser Patrek. On the other hand, the current Lord of Winterfell is threatening Queen Selyse, Shireen and Melisandre and the Lord Commander was actively helping their king and protecting their queen, going against his NW oaths for which he just got murdered.

Jon’s death is going to further complicate Northern politics. We know there are Northern houses who are aware of Robb’s decree and see Jon Stark as the next King in the North. As GRRM says in this SSM,

Q: I have a question, since Robb actually  legitimized Jon and named him his heir for Winterfell and the North  before the Red Wedding (granted no one knows about this and is still  alive or free, the Greatjon knows as does Edmure, but I dont see them  getting out of the Twins any time soon and Catelyn would probably die  before telling anyone) does this make Jon’s rejection of Stannis’ offer  moot?

A: Edmure and the Greatjon are prisoners, true… but you are forgetting  the envoys that Robb sent to Howland Reed… Galbart Glover, Maege  Mormont, Jason Mallister… they are all alive and free…

There’s House Thenn, newly created because of the marriage brokering Jon Snow did and the Freefolk holding land this side of the Wall. Alys was aided by Jon Snow and her uncle is still imprisoned at the Wall.

It’s possible Edmure Tully and other prisoners are getting freed in the next book by the brotherhood without banner and Edmure is a witness and signatory to Robb’s decree that legitimizes Jon Snow and names him Lord of Winterfell.

We know of two possible ‘envoys’ from Riverrun send by the Blackfish to the Wall - Robin Ryger, former Captain of the Guards and Desmond Grell, former Master at Arms. Both experienced men who chose to take the black after Jaime ends the siege of Riverrun and ask to be send to the Wall. Raff is supposed to have escorted them to Maidenpool, from where they travel to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. Considering that TWoW has Raff in Braavos, it could very well be that these two gents have reached Eastwatch. How are they going to react?

Then there’s Justin Massey with Jeyne Poole who will pass through Castle Black on his way to Eastwatch and Braavos. What is he going to do with what happened? Will word get back to Stannis? However, according to the Pink Letter, Stannis has apparently lost to the Boltons. The time lines are a mess.

The main thing is that the famed neutrality of the NW has shattered, and there’s going to be infighting amongst crows, wildlings, queensmen and northmen. There will most definitely be political ramifications in terms of who it is that will end up holding the North by the end of TWoW.

[agentrouka-blog]

What do you think about the conditions at Wall after Jon death? How do you think Jon will handle things after he gonna resurrected because it gonna mess as he was mediator between wildlings and NW?

Hi anon!

I have no real ideas here. It depends on how much Bowen Marsh and his co-conspirators had actually planned for the aftermath?

Just before the assassination, Jon makes sure to inform every last of them that Stannis was supposedly killed "with all his strength", by reading the Pink Letter aloud in the Shield Hall.

We know Bowen Marsh strongly disapproved of how closely Jon was tying the fortunes of the Watch to Stannis' fate. This news, along with Jon being grievously injured will absolutely dominate the immediate aftermath of Jon XIII.

(TL;DR: You're asking me?)

Stannis "death" leaves Selyse and Shireen is a very vulnerable position, same with Melisandre. The wildlings are not likely to be fond of them, either. But the wildlings have been integrated into the structure of the Watch, and not all black brothers disapprove of that. The structures Jon tried to put into place aren't actually that unstable, so I don't think it'll all collapse into chaos. They know they have a common foe, and they have had some time to get used to each other.

Perchance the conspirators vastly overestimated how welcome their actions will be in the eyes of the Watch. Either they take over and there is a truly dangerous stand-off between the various factions, or they will meet a surprisingly swift end before Jon is even awake.

Then there is Hardhome.

"But now I find I cannot go to Hardhome. The ranging will be led by Tormund Giantsbane, known to you all. I have promised him as many men as he requires."

"And where will you be, crow?" Borroq thundered. "Hiding here in Castle Black with your white dog?" (ASOS, Jon XIII)

Jon's bestie here has a clear mandate to save the thousands of civilians, and it's unlikely he'll just abandon that plan entirely. Time is of the essence. So a number of wildlings will likely still march North and simply try to use the wildling castles as their base instead of Castle Black. If they manage to save them, there will be a LOT of desperate wildlings at the Wall, demanding the return of their enslaved women and children from Essos. Will they stay at the Wall or try to gain help elsewhere?

Jon, meanwhile, one could surmise from this unprovoked little line, will "hide" at Castle Black, his spirit warged into Ghost. His body (which I expect to be magically comatose like Bran had been) could be cared for by loyal friends like Satin or Val. Tormund took his people to the next castle east, Oakenshield, another potential destination. Perhaps his survival might be obscured from his enemies by burning another body in his stead, leading to later rumors of a resurrection.

Monster remains an official royal hostage along with Val. Does Selyse try to keep them part of her household? For all I know, Selyse might remove from Castle Black post haste, maybe to the Nightfort, which Jon "ceded" to Stannis.

"This is the king's true heir. Shireen will one day sit the Iron Throne and rule the Seven Kingdoms. She must be kept from harm, and Eastwatch is where the attack will come. This Nightfort is the place my husband has chosen for our seat, and there we shall abide. We—oh!" (ADWD, Jon IX)

There she could be found by the returning Tycho Nestoris, and by Justin Massey (with Alysanne Mormont and Jeyne Poole), who had been tasked with travellling to Braavos to hire sellswords with Iron Bank money to secure Shireen's throne. But will he truly do that when he learns Stannis is supposedly dead, or will his personal ambitions interfere? He has been counseling caution and self-preservation all this time.

What happens to Jeyne Poole, known as "Arya", another royal ward now, officially wed to Ramsay? How much pressure will the Northern mountain clans exert on her behalf? Mel's influence here will be crucial for Selyse, but perhaps no longer respected by many others. How many R'hllor followers will stay loyal if their Azor Aai is gone? How will the actual events around Winterfell play into this? All of this eventually leads to the burning of Shireen.

Say, Jon can't stay down and out for too long, but he is unlikley to be immediately lucid if he's been in a prolonged warg-state, plus his injuries will require some recovery time. Events will have moved along quite dramatically by the time he reappears, and there is no telling how any but his closest confidants will react to the idea of a "resurrected" warg Lord Commander, so I doubt he will actually remain that beyond potentially trying to exact justice for the worst transgressions that take place in the meantime.

In general, I see Jon's path leading away from the Wall. I don't actually think he will reunite with Sansa there, I think he will be drawn into the political arc around Winterfell and House Bolton, if only indirectly, and he will be preoccupied with the immediate trauma of having been violently betrayed, of having warged, of whatever spiritual journey he undertakes in his recovery, etc. He will be much more volatile than before the stabbing. If the Watch doesn't want him, it doesn't mean that he'll give up on wanting to prepare the North for the impending ice threat.

And that's not even counting how the Northern Lords will eye Jon as Ned's remaining son, if he is known to be released from the Watch. Manderly sent for Rickon, the clans rode for Ned's daughter, now there's a kid of an age with the late Robb Stark, with leadership experience and his self-forged connections, the Stark look and a fierce wolf. Some will try to move him into a leadership position, others may eye him warily as a potential Ramsay.

Then we have Theon running around with Asha, no doubt. And Sansa riding in on a dying horse. Rickon and Davos.

It's going to be interesting.