#boo hoo u made i broke up with you so what? you were my abuser i had a choice to stay or leave i a fucking left and yall got mad AF

[vannilagvtzz]

Get these Goofy ahh bitches off my phone

They think they innocent

Ain't nobody worried about y'all, crazy ahh niggas they think they funny💀💀🤣🤣🤣

[normal-thoughts-official]

Thoughts on Maryse actually earning a redemption? I liked her character post redemption but the whole arc felt rushed, unearned, and too easy. Especially with her victims (both her children and downworlders like Magnus) forgiving her so easily like she didn't do anything that bad...

oh mood. i actually have lowkey conflicted feelings on the whole maryse thing because like, on the one hand, they didn't do the thing i hate the most with this kind of "arc" - having the character b like "sorry that i was an asshole" and then continue to be an asshole but not on purpose this time and so it's fine now. on the other hand, they did the opposite - maryse did actually change and become a non-abusive person, but it didn't fucking make sense and she basically never bothered to acknowledge that she was a uhhhh terrible fucking person

there's also lowkey projection feelings that make me a little fond of maryse, like, damn, i wish my mom just decided one day that transphobia isn't sexy and completely changed overnight. u know? lmao

but anyway yeah i do have thoughts on a maryse redemption arc that doesn't suck ass. especially because i think there are elements that could make a cohesive story if the show actually, like, bothered with them. i'll warn u that i'll mostly ignore the cheating plotline because 1- it has kinda yikes vibes like "oh she's suffered now so we have to forgive her", and 2- i don't really care about cheating plotlines tbh. like rationally i can understand that it's essentially betrayal of an agreement, but emotionally, i simply don't understand why anyone would give a fuck lol i just can't connect emotionally with it in any way so it feels very abstract and forced for me to write about

so i think the starting point for her redemption would be her being deruned. so i’m gonna start from there, and just assume that everything that went down before the announcement of her deruning was the same

i say the deruning because like.... her entire life, this was her absolute top priority. being a shadowhunter. being a part of that society. upholding these values. being essentially shadowhunter royalty. and now, she's lost that. and she's forced to look back at everything that she did without the looming threat of her losing what she's been working so hard for (since she already did) and it suddenly feels way clearer

not that like oh she never realized how shitty she was! she fucking knew how shitty she was. there's no way she didn't. she manipulated her children, she purposefully humiliated them and withheld affection, she hurt them, she participated in genocide, she killed people, and she did it with the intent of doing all those things. but i think - especially with the part about that her children - that the way she looked at this was always distorted by the fact that the clave/the lightwood name/her position of power and prestige took precedence. also, the constant threat that she would lose that meant that she could justify it to herself saying that it was what she had to do. now, she can no longer do that, because it's already happened. and guess what? life went on now that she's deruned. so she's forced to look at everything that she did for her position as a shadowhunter from a distance this time, because her goals are unattainable now, and that means she can look at it more rationally, especially since she ran out of excuses. and here's the picture: none of it was worth it

and i'm talking about her children specifically. the literal fascism shit is more complicated since like, she is a radical racist and i don't think she would see a problem with that, tbh. she has no reason to care about that, yet

so okay, she's looking back and she realizes not only that her excuses for her behavior were made of paper, but also that her priorities were all fucked up, because now that she's deruned, it isn't that in itself that hurts her the most. it's the fact that she's alone

and again, i don't mean that like, boo hoo, poor her. that was the consequence of her own actions and honestly good for all the people in her life that they didn't feel obligated to give her emotional support when she was out there ruining their lives

what i do mean is that this is what moves her to want to change and mend things, if anything, because she wants comfort

and initially she would be super fucking selfish and shitty about it, because like..... obviously, maryse was selfish. she might have said "lightwood name" this and that, but let's be real here, she wasn't even born a lightwood to care all that much about that. it was about her, her power, her prestige. if overnight the lightwood name stopped being a symbol of status she would drop it like a hot potato, she held it close to her chest because it meant ascension for her personally. she manipulated her children and drew away her friends and supported genocide for herself, not out of some obligation with the concept of lightwoodship or whatever

she would try to "mend" her relationship with her children for herself, and it would show. robert would probably drop her like a hot potato too after the deruning, lbr, and i don't think she cared all that much about him anyway, so i'll focus on izzy, alec, and jace. jace is kind of weird since she was never shown to abuse him, but she also was willing to throw him on the trash when she found out he was valentine's kid, so. but overall i think he would be the one to mend his relationship with her more easily, but also - jace is just as selfish as her and even more self centered, so she wouldn't get a lot of support/satisfaction out of that relationship

so she tries to make things better with alec and izzy and they're both like... lol. especially alec because as we've seen he had no qualms about being completely ruthless with maryse once he broke out of her claws (good for him!) and while izzy had this whole "i don't care about maryse" facade.... she did, honestly. like she was visibly hurt by maryse not hugging her despite that being expected, and maryse's presence there in itself was enough for her body language to completely change. when izzy wanted to prove that she could be mature, she emulated maryse's style. so i think, especially since izzy was obviously the fuckup kid, that a part of her is kind of desperate to get any sort of approval or affection from maryse

but that doesn’t mean that she’s going to humiliate herself for maryse, and she also gets some satisfaction in being able to flip the tables and be the one to reject her, for once. and alec is straight up like... “you never gave us any support, but now that you’ve lost everything, you want it from us? i’m just doing what you taught us, mother”

i think jace would probably be the one to be like “oh, come on, alec, she wasn’t that bad” almost scoffing at the idea and it’s just like... “between what she did to me, izzy, and magnus, she has to work a lot harder if she wants my forgiveness” and maryse is kind of taken aback because tbh up to this point she hadn’t given any thought whatsoever to what she did to magnus or downworlders in general

she’s probably kind of appalled by the idea tbh

but she also starts to like... lowkey... get it? i mean obviously she’s not a downworlder and she’ll never suffer what downworlders went through, but now that shadowhunter society has turned her back on her, now that she’s become depised by them too, she has a tiny little taste of what it feels like, and it’s not nice

especially cuz like, again... robert would drop her like a hot potato lol and like i don’t even blame him cuz she wasn’t exactly a great wife either and maryse would have done the same, i don’t think either of them ever had any illusions when it came to their marriage tbh. but robert uses her exact m.o. against her (since well, it was his, too) and that means that she gets to feel at least a little bit of forced sympathy for the people she’s done the same thing to

so i think she would come to luke (no i’m not going a lukemaryse route keep calm)

and luke is kind of like... well, i was waiting for this to happen. you know, because he is the one to comes closest to having been in maryse’s situation, since he’s also an ex-shadowhunter - except worse because he’s been turned downworlder, not just mundane

and it’s the first time she actually shows some level of empathy because she’s kind of like “i was just wondering... how did you deal with it when they... when all of us... turned our backs on you?” and she apologizes for that and that shocks luke because he didn’t expect it 

and it’s easier for luke to forgive her because 1- it’s been a while; 2- they aren’t super close; 3- luke was also a fascist so like lmao; 4- there is one (1) person who understands what he went through, kinda. again not really because being a downworlder is way worse than mundane but who else comes close?

and look i’m not saying they become best friends or anything but they have a good talk about what it was like, and maryse is again forced to meet her own shittiness dead in the eye because when luke talks about what he went through when he was Turned, well, maryse was there. and now she is basically forced to empathize with him, who was on the other side, and see herself as the tormentor that other people are being to her now

and like again it’s not like she didn’t know that she was a shitty ass person and what she was doing was terrible but now all the walls he had put up to avoid acknowledging that are straight up torn down

she apologizes and he just kind of shrugs because it’s not like he’s gonna be like “yeah np lol” and this is not the kind of thing that you resolve easily, especially after such a long time, so it’s awkward. but again, he doesn’t exactly resent her anymore either, he’s more kind of... neutral i guess. like he made his peace with it a long time ago and an apology from one of the people involved is way more than he ever expected to get, so

also maryse doesn’t cry her woes because she is way too proud for that, which means that luke doesn’t have to deal with her Shadowhunter Tears on top of everything else. it’s more the opposite, really, it’s luke who talks and maryse who listens, and for the first time, luke gets to talk about how he felt about being turned and shunned without... i don’t want to say fear, but like, reservation? because obviously talking about this with a downworlder is worse and more awkward and more painful. because maryse was essentially worse than him, he gets to talk about it without shame, if that makes sense? and he also gets to say everything he’s always wanted to say to shadowhunters/circle members in general, and it does him good

they go their separate ways and luke is left feeling emotionally exhausted from reopening that wound but also like its scar has faded further, you know? and maryse is starting to actually genuinely want to be better, not just to convince people to not leave her

also, luke is by far the one who treated her best up to this point, so she feels a little lighter, even if it was far from a good interaction

i think the next she would go to would be magnus?? kinda?? like not right away of course, this isn’t shtv so i’m going with a long timeline that involves plenty of her living as a mundane and Thinking About What She’s Done and trying to find a purpose for her life now

i guess she would have that fucking shop? so there’s that. and in that time she gets to meet some mundanes and make tentative local-shop-owner/client sorta friendships and talk about what she went through in vague terms and get some advice that might actually be useful

anyway, magnus! so she would go to magnus because he’s one of the downworlders (and her experience with luke makes her think that they are more likely to forgive her since they weren’t close) but mostly because she wants to win alec over and she knows that will never ever happen if she isn’t nice to magnus. she’s racist, not stupid

magnus doesn’t let her into the loft, but he also doesn’t close the door on her face. from previous scenes (mostly max’s rune ceremony thing) we know that magnus is at least willing to try to have some sort of truce for alec’s sake, but there’s that, and there’s maryse marching into his home like nobody’s business expecting forgiveness when she directly killed at least a few people magnus cared about and/or was responsible for protecting

also it’s transparent that she’s doing it for alec, so magnus is like “while it is nice to know that you care this much about alexander... i can’t just forgive you” and she is a little outraged, but she leaves without making a fuss

meanwhile magnus is just emotionally depleted even from this very short interaction with her, because she’s just... too much

lowkey has a depression day after that because that is way too much and he’s just kind of in a slump, feeling empty and reliving the worst memories of the people he’s lost in that war. alec notices and magnus is vague about it, just like “maryse.... visited” and alec wants him to talk about it but magnus is not going to talk about everything alec’s mom did to him cuz she’s like... still alec’s mom. so it’s awkward and heavy but they both lowkey comfort each other for the rest of the day and cuddle and shit

also there’s max! with max it’s a little different because he’s not going to like, straight up not want to talk to maryse, and his relationship with her seemed to be a little different from the others anyway. he was still heavily influenced by her ideals, and even with the dirvorce/distancing/idk, obviously she and robert are still like, sharing the custody. and she asks max about alec and izzy (as well as jace when they get to talk) and max is very blunt about it too, very “they’re still pissed at you” and she’s like gee kid thanks, i know that, but how are they. are they ok?

and again max is a nosy bitch so whenever he sees alec and izzy he’s like “mom keeps asking how you guys are doing. she wanted to know about izzy’s new project” and izzy is shocked like “since when does she know about my projects?” and max shrugs like “idk” 

and again, emotionally exhausting. especially when eventually max starts to say that maryse also asked how magnus was doing, and that hits alec like a billion bricks, because maryse is acknowledging their relationship? without him like, basically threatening her? lmao

cue their own version of depression days/weird coping mechanisms because they don’t know how to deal emotionally with this. izzy would probably throw herself headfirst into work like “emotions what emotions haha never heard of that anyway check out this corpse” and alec... shoots arrows until his hands bleed, as usual

because look, it’s hard, and i say that from firsthand experience. even the thought that your prejudiced parents might change gives hope. and alec had always been so loyal to family, to him, it was family before everything else, and that included maryse. and yes, he was manipulated by her, but he also did value family and he had some good moments, or moments that he saw as good (like the whole guy whose nose he broke thing) with her. so it’s just like... a lot of conflict because he kind of wants to turn his back on her and has been ever since he came out, but there’s a lot of emotions swirling inside of him

again magnus sees his bloodied hands and he heals them softly, asking him what happened. and alec is like “maryse is asking max about us” and magnus is like “oh” and again, alec is not going to go into the details of his relationship with his mom who killed magnus’ people, so it’s a little silent and awkward again, but they can again draw comfort from each other just from being together in silence and cuddling and shit

me? talking about malec cuddling in a maryse post? it’s more likely than you think

for a while alec and izzy do this weird dance around each other where they’re both like “you’re overworking yourself, want a break?” without actually acknowleding it because they know that if they actually tried they would both just keep uno +4 carding each other like “oh so why don’t you talk about how you feel?” “well why don’t you talk about how you feel?” “well but why don’t you talk abou-” 

i think izzy might be the one to break first. if anything, because alec’s Big Brother instincts mean that he doesn’t want to come to her to cry his woes, because he feels like He Should Be The One To Protect Her. and she’s like “alec, i’m not a child, you can talk to me. and if we aren’t going to face this together, who are we going to face it with?” and alec just looks at her with that intense stare and izzy goes, “i feel disappointed in myself because a part of me is so happy that she finally cared about something i was creating” and just like that, alec’s walls are gone

he finally gets to really talk about how he feels with the whole maryse and magnus thing and admit that a part of him is also happy that she asked and that it sucks and he hates it and feels weak, basically 

lightwood siblings mutual support because we are all about that shit! who’s maryse again

anyway max is kinda their bridge for a while, not even intentionally, but alec and izzy get to get used to the idea that maryse is trying because he tells them about it and he gets to see the small changes in maryse’s behavior you know? and so alec and izzy hear about that

it’s also probably because of max that they get to see her again, i mean, they are all family. and they’re both kinda bracing for some emotionally loaded interactions at the very least 

but instead she has like kind of accepted that they don’t feel comfortable with her and that it’s her fault for using them instead of protecting them most of their lives so she leaves them be beyond the pleasantries and they find themselves... relaxing? not enough to talk to her but just to be able to breathe in her presence which is already a lot

so this goes on for a while. also, maryse does end up genuinely trying to help in the anti-valentine crusade, but like, she’s respectful about it? she definitely isn’t taking charge or going after downworlders when they couldn’t trust her, but she has A- intel because she knew him for most of his life and can help predict what he thinks (as can luke) and B- fierceness and willingness to do what he’s told. the fact that whenever a downworlder like luke or magnus tells her what to do she just nods and does as she’s told earns her a lot of points. she also doesn’t demand their trust in any way and doesn’t ask for any information so that helps even if of course it’s still tense for everyone involved. but maryse understands and acknowledges this. in this case the shadowhunter training also helps because she is very used to dealing with following orders, not being told things, and tense/uncomfortable environments lol so that means that she can be there without putting her shadowhunter fragility all over the place or demanding things she doesn’t have the right to

also whenever people ask her why she’s doing this (which happens frequently since you know. why does maryse lightwood care) she says that just accepting her punishment is not enough to undo her mistakes. she is responsible for this mess and it’s on her to help take it down as well as she possibly can

so slowly she starts to gain trust? and slowly her relationship with them both mends

i’m unsure whether alec or izzy would forgive her first. a part of me wants to say izzy because again, i feel like she is really desperate for maryse’s approval, while alec’s whole thing is that he's over needing it. i mean obviously alec is still human and like i said, a family man, so of course he also wants maryse to approve of him and them both to have a good relationship even if he hates that he does. but he’s been working too hard to break out of needing to be on maryse’s good books to start now. in a way, having maryse’s approval is almost triggering because he’s coming to associate maryse’s pride on him with his own suffering

but on the other hand, alec is a family man, and he was closer to maryse than izzy, so i could also see him being the one to forgive her first. maybe he is the one who gets back to talking to her first, but izzy is the one who once starts mending their relationship lowers her guard for real? while alec still has like... snappy and defensive tendencies (which are perfectly valid and healthy of him to have)? you know? like once izzy is like fine let’s give her a chance she actually does, while alec takes a long, long time to lower his guard, and that only happens like, way after valentine is defeated and magnus starts feeling more comfortable around maryse (obviously magnus and maryse won’t ever be BFFs, but over time he can handle her presence, you know? make small talk, have a sorta “i have my mom-in-law but what can we do” dynamic)

and yeah those are my thoughts? it takes some years for them to actually have a good relationship but it builds slowly and maryse does do her homework as much as possible so that’s nice

again, thank you so much for this question and i hope you like my answer

EDIT: here's some more on alec's response to the whole thing. thank you, anon!