#bloodweave critical

[bg3critical]

I've never hated a ship before but I cannot stand BloodWeave.

It seems like people have to completely alter one of the characters to make them fit together.

I think they're foils not compatible.

Unless its AA and GodGale then I kind of get it.

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[bloodandtheweave]

No, I am sorry, I'm going to say this.

If you are under the age of 18 (I think it is 17 in the US), you should not be engaging with the fandom. Especially not with content creators who make NSFW content. Most creators have "minors do not interact" policies in place, or at least a proceed with caution notice. If you choose to ignore that and engage with NSFW content creators anyway, or you choose to conceal your age, then that's on you.

People tend to assume that it's adults playing an adult game and engaging with adult content. And they will treat you accordingly.

You also shouldn't lie about being younger to get out of an argument and make others feel guilty either.

[galedekarios]

Keeping this anon, but I hear you hate bloodweave. I was curious on your take to why.

You don't have to reply to this if it makes you uncomfortable thought!!

i'd like to preface this again by saying that this is my opinion. idc what you ship.

i've talked about this here, but i don't mind reiterating my points:

they have no chemistry, to the contrary, gale shuts him down right away during their first talk and ast*rion's manipulation attempts. i assume that gale sees right through him from the beginning. a lot of people love to hc gale as naive as or as completely taken with ast*rion, but it's the complete opposite. i imagine his many years in waterhavian society made him realise quite quickly what type of person he's dealing with. the relationship they have doesn't progress much from that. by act iii they - at best - begrudgingly tolerate each other.

they are diametrically opposed in the things they value as people as well as their morals. gale is kind-hearted, he approves of helping those in need, children, mothers, slaves, refugees, even the animals you meet in-game. he seeks to avoid bloodshed, approves of letting people who want to pay the party back for their help keep their money and belongings. he seeks knowledge and even power not for selfish reasons or a taste for the darker things, but because he seeks to better their odds of survival against a seemingly invincible foe. ast*rion meanwhile is selfish and cruel and vile. he delights in violence and bloodshed, he finds the struggle of people caught in the crosshairs amusing. he is greedy and short-sighted, seeking power for himself, no matter the cost to others.

they are completely incompatible in terms of what they look for in a relationship and a potential partner. gale wants and needs a deeper connection, a tangling of the souls, and he needs someone to be there for him unequivocally, to love him for who he is as he is. he is not taken in by someone's looks or image they present of themselves, nor does he do hate sex / endless bickering / enemies to fwb / etc.

the first things he cites for trusting the protag are their good actions (helping mirkon, helping arabella, seeking to ease the tension between zevlor and aradin), it's all those things that at first make him trust the protag and later - when they unselfishly offer him help, give him artefacts - makes him fall in love with them. sex and immediate gratification isn't important to him. sex is a component - one way in an array of ways to proclaim love.

for ast*rion, it's manipulation first and his entire romance hinges on that. his partner falling for his looks and his text book manipulation into sex. that's already where this breaks apart for me in terms of this ship because that doesn't work with gale.

add to that ast*rion's cruel remarks about gale's when he is need:

[after gale's background story reveal] You'd have us debate? That Netherese jack-in-the-box should be a blip on the horizon by now!

[after mystra's demands] I can't believe Mystra's demanding Gale sacrifice himself to destroy the Absolute. It's just a waste of a perfectly good cult that we could be controlling. And a waste of a perfectly good Gale, I suppose.

[at the stormshore tabernacle] Well? Go on, then - it's rude to keep a goddess waiting.

[after orin potentially kidnaps gale] So, we kill Gortash or Gale dies? It's not an easy call. On the one hand, killing Gortash would be fun. On the other, Gale can be very annoying. We should probably save the wizard, though. He does have his moments.

i think it's very clear, given the fact that these reactions range from act i to act iii, that he doesn't give a singular fuck about gale. contrast this to karlach's reactions, or even shadowheart's:

Karlach: That bloody freak won't get away with this. That's my wizard she took. And we're going to get him back.

(particularly karlach has many reactions like this.)

...unless you play either of them as an origin char and make the most ooc choices, i do not see how this pairing is supposed to work.

additionally, as i've discussed more in my previous post, the parallels people draw between them are shallow at best or can be drawn virtually between any of the other origin companions, or are non-existent at worst. ast*rion having a reading animation that he shares with gale (as halsin and shadowheart do too), or having their tents next to each other (like wyll and gale do in act i) isn't really enough for me.

as i've said previously, i have tried to engage with the pairing because it's sadly inescapable since people often don't bother tagging, but there's nothing except shallow ooc stuff.

[baldursgateanon]

Bladeweave is the only MM ship that makes 100% sense, and the only ship where you do not have to tweak one the characters a bit.

If fewer people hated Gale or ignored Wyll and didn't see both Gale & Wyll as straight, the ship would be more popular.

Wyllstarion & Bloodweave are about Astarion. Their are issues with BOTH ships. Mostly, how Astarion fans treat the other character.

The problem is that everything is about who ia best for Astarion. That's why Bloodweave and Wyllstarion are always pitted against each other.

From an Astarionmancer perspective someone may prefer the dynamic with one over the other. It's not that deep.

From the perspective of both Wyll & Gale fans, Astarion is fhe least compatible with them, but also the only enemies to lovers for them both. So that is why people may ship them.

And a Galemancer is not necessarily going to ship Wyllstarion, nor is a Wyllmancer likely to ship Bloodweave.

Both Gale & Astarion have more fans. If Astarion wasn't as popular then fhere would be less disparity between ships.

You all argue over who best for him, and ignore the perspective of fans of other characters.

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[bloodweave-fandom-critical]

This feud has made it a lot easier for people to justify hating Bloodweave and its shippers.

I have started to see Bloodweave shippers DNI in people's profiles. Which I hadn't before.

Before this happened, I thought that the "Bloodweave shippers are toxic" statement came from people being upset when we defended ourselves from hate. Because for a non-problematic ship that exists in a media without any canon ships, Bloodweave gets a lot of unwarranted hate.

The idea that we were toxic definitely came from us defending ourselves against the insane notion that we were racist, misogynistic, and fetishists just for shipping Gale and Astarion together.

It's always that way. When we defended ourselves, we were told we were toxic. Yet when the same things were said about other ships that people say about Bloodweave, it was considered not nice to say it. And I absolutely hated that hypocrisy.

Like, why are things such as fandom racism, misogyny, and MLM fetishisation only directed at Bloodweave and not the other MM ships? Why is it okay for people to 'ship who they want to ship', with the exception of Bloodweave according to the fandom.

Now, it's hard to justify that the Bloodweave fandom isn't toxic because there has been toxicity. We join the evergrowing list of popular ships that get hated because of its shippers. Then, people use it to justify hating the popular ship (which is usually MM) in other fandoms. Regardless of if they actually go together or not.

So then it loops back round to people hating Bloodweave, not because they don’t think they work, but because they automatically hate the most popular ships in the fandom for the reason that they are often toxic. Then they assume the worst of the people who ship them.

This happens, and it proves their point. People leave or don't want to be associated with us anymore. They promote how bad the ship is, and then the ship dies. And all of this has nothing to do with their actual compatibility. Or people's right to ship who they want.

I am disappointed in the Bloodweave fandom because of this. I'm disappointed that the haters who said popular MLM ships between two white men are often toxic were proven right.

Bloodweave is a good ship, but it has been tainted by hatred. It doesn't deserve the hate it gets, but maybe it's shippers do.

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[invinciblerodent]

How do you feel about Wyllstarion? I've been obsessed with it for years, but I'll admit I've only played as Astarion romancing Wyll, not the other way around. And all the fanfics I've read annoy me for one reason or another. But I really do like the pairing, something about Mizora and Cazador both leaving them with scars, something about Wyll losing his place as the Ravengard heir - could he have noticed the Szarr situation if he stayed in the city, could he have rescued Astarion without the tadpole? Just a lot of interesting pieces to play with, except I don't see anyone playing with them. Sad

You know, I don't really feel any way about that pairing, if I'm to be honest? I haven't looked into it on purpose, and I haven't seen enough unintentionally that it would have intrigued me (whenever it's applicable, I'm generally more easily engaged by PC/NPC pairs, by seeing how someone would breathe life into a mostly blank character in such a way that they would fall for another, than I am by virtually any NPC/NPC ship), but I see what you mean. It doesn't personally appeal to me too much, I guess mostly because of differences in personality and the differences in their desires for a romantic partner that their individual arcs imply, but I can see that there is at least material to play with, things to base a connection on. A shared hometown, a somewhat similar personal arc of breaking the chains of effective slavery, what-ifs, even expressions of attraction, respective issues with a father-, and a twisted but thematically father-adjactent figure, Wyll just generally being a kind enough person not to punt Astarion into the Waking Sea... I get it, I do.

I'm trying to be very diplomatic about all of this, I don't want anyone to feel like they can't play with their toys however they want to, because they obviously can, these guys are all fucking fictional and what someone else does with them in their head is none of my fucking beeswax, but...

I feel like it's just sadly kind of telling, just how much more engagement I see (again, without ever seeking it out) of a combination of characters that I personally believe to be lacking in points of obvious interest (like if the most obvious thing they have in common is that they are the only two [insert adjective here] men on the game's main cast), than many others with clearly more meat on their bones, and there is not a shred of doubt in my mind that racism and misogyny (conscious or unconscious) both very much could have a hand in that.

If this doesn't apply to someone and they're seeing something in that combo that I'm not, they're more than welcome not to put this particular shirt on, again I don't really want it explained to me again lol, but... I don't think the trend of this happening within fandoms over and over again can be effectively denied.

[eyes-of-nine]

while canonically impossible I love the idea of gale and caleb being neighbors

[odditiesanddeities]

if i had a nickel for every time that i found a ship from a dnd-related source that featured a white-haired, initially antagonistic man with a brown-haired wizard that had a beloved cat, i'd have 2 nickels, which isnt a lot but its weird it happened twice, right?

[zeniva]

okay but how does one make friends on tumblr? I've always been lurking around but the "how" of interactions on here is what's pushed me away for years. but I want to stay here, it's so cosy... only I want to stay here with friends?? begging on my knees for friends at this point lmao

[popcornhog]

If i had a knickel for everytime i ship a scruffy, powerful wizard who’s always close to combusting (which is caused by their own hubris) and their flamboyant, suspicious and secretive feline coded companion who has ties/work closely with blood, i’d have two knickels. Which isnt much but its weird it happened twice🗿

[bg3critical]

bloodweave and Wyllstarion would have been infinitely better if they didn't change them so much after early access

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[bloodandtheweave]

The Fandom: Writes essays about why they like Astarion & Gale together. Including the parallels between them, the banter, and screenshots to back it up.

The Fandom: pEoPlE oNlY ShIp BlOoDwEaVe beCausE tHeY are TwO wHiTe mEn

No one is being forced to like Bloodweave, yet it’s exhausting to see the worst continually assumed about those who do. There’s a big difference between thoughtful critique and declaring that people must have bad motives for enjoying a particular pairing. Too often the line “Everyone can ship what they want” is immediately followed by “Well, not that one.”

What really rankles is the double standard. Astarion isn’t a perfect fit for Wyll, Halsin, or Karlach either—his arc is a rocky journey of redemption that naturally clashes with other personalities. He has minimal chemistry with Halsin (who is also white), and many of his exchanges with Wyll are quoted out of context, and these two ships are also pairing both characters with men while ignoring their relationships with the female characters. Yet these “problems” only seem to matter to people when he’s paired with Gale.

Critics rarely offer an alternative for Gale, either. The fandom is obsessed with sorting M/M ships into a hierarchy—especially those involving Astarion—without applying the same scrutiny across the board. You could just as easily claim that Wyllstarion fans are misogynistic fetishists for sidelining Karlach, or ignoring his clear parallels (and flirtation) with Shadowheart, simply because pairing two men feels more “progressive.” But that wouldn’t be fair, and neither is presuming ill intent from Bloodweave fans.

Constantly belittling Bloodweave and making sweeping generalisations about its shippers creates a hostile environment. Saying “it is boring” or “it is racist” as though those are objective truths—and not personal opinions—shuts down genuine discussion. Worse, it discourages people from sharing art and fiction, which ironically makes the fandom feel smaller and more monotonous.

That hostility also skews the tag landscape. Astarion is extremely popular, so naturally anything he’s in will dominate searches. If fans produced as much content for Wyll/Karlach, Gale/Halsin, Bladeweave, or other combinations, Bloodweave wouldn’t appear to be “clogging” the tags. Gale fans, for instance, enjoy Bloodweave as their enemies‑to‑lovers fix; not everyone wants the even harsher dynamic of Gale/Minthara. Everyone has their own reasons for favouring certain tropes, and they’re not automatically negative.

Instead of policing tastes, why not channel that energy into creating or boosting content for the pairings you love? Celebrate Wyllach, Bladeweave, Wyll/Shadowheart—anything you feel deserves more attention—rather than endlessly moaning about Bloodweave. We’re all here because we care about these characters; letting others enjoy their favourites without judgement can only make the fandom richer and more welcoming for everyone.

[galedekarios]

You don't have to ship it, but they do have their similarities—enough that it really isn’t any two white dudes shoved together (unlike one pale elf and another wood elf are). Their personalities, alignments, and histories make them very different people, but some of their goals, struggles, hobbies, motives, requirements, and unpopular moral opinions align in ways that they don't with other origins. I think what similarities they do have are the reason why they butt heads at first, and why Gale later on softens up to Astarion as he becomes more comfortable with himself. They check a lot of the requirements for mirror characters, and it's a ship that's at its best when people hone in on that rather than using it to write out their yaoi punching bag Gale x perfect pained princess Astarion fantasies.

i was debating not answering this because this isn't really something of a debate for me or something that i will change my opinion on.

they share the same levels of surface similarities with everyone else in the roster, if you truly want to put your mind to it.

my point is not "don't ship" or "ship", my point is these sorts of shallow parallels can be drawn between any and all of them. it doesn't translate to them being "made for each other" or "written for each other" or being "narrative foils" or "mirrors".

some of their goals? which ones exactly? getting rid of the tadpole? regaining agency? learning to live the life they feel they lost? again, that's something all of them share.

what struggles? overcoming an oppressive relationship? again, that's something all of them share.

what hobbies do they share? reading? because they share the same reading animation despite ast*rion never talking about books? on the contrary, he even derides reading and books as a waste of time.

what motives? motives for what?

what requirements? consuming something? karlach needs infernal iron in order to survive.

what unpopular moral opinions? about what? in which respect?

it's all so shallow.

people mistake where gale's "unpopular moral opinions" come from in opposition to ast*rion's: in the beginning, they come from pragmatism and being smart enough to recognise that the group is facing a seemingly unwinnable battle against an unknown entity that is controlling an entire army to later finding out it's a legendary elder brain with a macguffin on its head. it's not about hubris nor is it about being unhinged or selfish. it's pragmatism against insourmantable odds and it's selflessness by act iii that makes him offer his sacrifice even if you have convinced him to live. if we are speaking about the crown, the boat scene beats you over the head with it stemming from gale's loss of faith in m*stra and wanting to be better than her in order to help - themselves and others.

they don't check "requirements for mirror characters" in any way that the others do not. i could take any and all of these "mirrors" and apply them to every other companion in the game if that is the level of "depth" we are using.

if we look past the shallow parallels you can draw for basically all of them, we see gale shooting down ast*rion's manipulation tactics right away ("i do enjoy our walks together. don't you, gale?" "uh sure. in silence."). we see their different approaches to what the journey throws at them. gale enjoys helping people, for no gain at all, and diplomatic solutions (arabella, mirkon, mayrina, zevlor, etc.), he needs someone who is on his side, someone who is willing to accept him for who he is. gale is genuinely good-hearted and kind. that is why they butt heads early on. not because they are similar. in opposition to that, ast*rion delights in cruelty. he is so needlessly and often. towards those in need, towards children, towards animals. he is out for no one but himself. he shows little emphathy to anyone, with the exception of himself always ("the problem with what cazador has done is that he did it to me.").

ast*rion in particular is often downright cruel and degrading to people around him, he's cruel and degrading to gale, to the problems he faces and who he is as a person (just a few examples from the top of my head):

from the moment when gale reveals his backstory ("why isn't this netherese jack in a box a blip on the horizon already?") to the mystra reveal (being more focused on what it means re: controlling the cult than gale's impending death), and his casual dismissal of who gale is as a person at every other turn ("i don't care what's in every mind flayer colony, gale - nobody does. except you."), to delighting in the fact gale was kidnapped by orin.

are k*rlach and gale foils because they share a bomb in their chest?

are sh*dowheart and gale foils because they share religious trauma?

are w*ll and gale foils because they share having a relationship with an incredible power imbalance with a female entity?

are h*lsin and gale foils because they both have a library?

are w*ll and gale foils because they have their tents set up next to each other in act i?

to wrap it up: they are completely incompatible to me.

they are "mirrors" or "foils" in the same way that karlach and gale are. or gale and wyll. or gale and shadowheart: at the most there are parallels you can draw that are tenuous at best and shallow at worst. the broad same general narrative structure doesn't create narrative foils.

i've tried to engage with this ship to see what people are doing with it and the relationship usually starts in the same way over and over again in a way that gale's character a disservice.

gale isn't someone who cares about physical attractiveness, nor is he someone who is into one night stands or sleeping with someone for the sake of it while ast*rion's entire romance set up hinges on the fact that you are being manipulated by him, sex and attraction as a springboard.

gale's entire romance set up hinges on the fact that you accept him as he is. it's a slow burn. mystra's missive forces his hand into confessing early and sharing himself with you in what time is left to him - sex is a component of a greater whole.

gale also isn't someone to just take insults or abuse or dismissal and then still run after said someone to have a relationship, he isn't someone where enemies to lovers work or fwb (both things that seem to be quite popular with this particular ship).

i'm not even going to touch on the 'dubcon' aspect i've also seen a lot of forcing 'favours' from gale because he needs magical artefacts because that's a whole different can of worms.

again: this is not a don't ship post. you are free to ship what you want. this is solely a this relationship doesn't work for me, much less as narrative foils, post, and i have seen nothing that would convince me otherwise in the game or from the people who do like this ship.

[baldursgateanon]

I don't trust "Galemancers" who only post bloodweave.

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[bloodweave-fandom-critical]

I’m not being overdramatic when I say this feud is actively destroying the fandom. The servers are dead, no one’s running events anymore, and the few that do get attention barely attract anyone. I’ve lost count of how many people have walked away from this community—or from the Bloodweave fandom specifically—because of this nonstop toxicity. Newcomers are scared to step in because they’re hearing different, conflicting rules on who they can work with or follow, and the constant fighting has pushed them away. Everyone is too busy fighting or circling the same arguments that they’ve forgotten why we’re all here in the first place. We’re alienating each other, and it’s becoming clear: the Bloodweave fandom is becoming known for its drama, not its creativity or love for the ship.

If this doesn’t stop, we’re going to lose it all. This feud isn’t just damaging—it’s killing the community. The Bloodweave ship is already hated enough as it is, we don’t need to keep adding fuel to the fire. At some point, you have to accept that holding on to this mess isn’t worth it. If we don’t move on, there won’t be a Bloodweave fandom left to fight over.

We are all fed up with this. Please find a new hobby.

- Sincerely a casual Bloodeweave fan

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[invinciblerodent]

1, 5 and 23 for bg3 from the salty ask list

Thank you for asking! ❤️

Question list here!

1.What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

Oh, I think this is the one that's gonna get me hate mail lol.

I'm putting this one under the cut right away, because I can feel that if I get hate for anything today, even if I can skate by with voicing that I'm not a fan of Fenris or Lucanis, it'll be this...

I'm a brave girl, I can say words about video games, watch me do it, here we go.

I do not get Bloodweave.

I really don't get it, and I don't want it explained to me.

From the start, from the first time I saw those two being paired together, I got this very distinct feeling that it's probably one of those ships that was born from someone looking at the lineup of characters, and thinking "I like this one conventionally attractive white guy, but what could be better? ..... I know, two! 😀" , and since then, the world has done very little to convince me otherwise.

Like it feels to me like the sheer popularity of this ship, when compared to others between characters of the same general caliber, is a very good way to exemplify how far the general fandom-wide lack of interest in female characters and characters of color goes. (respect to those exempt, of course)

Like, tongue fully lodged in my cheek, but two white men with the bare minimum level of investment in each other's survival casually standing near each other isn't entirely what I think about when I hear the words "romantic tension".

It's just... it's one of those things, you know? That you don't really mind (because I'm not an asshole, because I know how to use content filters and the block button, because I like to let people have their fun), but it still annoys you just that little bit more the more you see it?

Even if it doesn't appeal to me, I can look at quite a few Origin ships and see right there what they're about, yknow? I'm not really into any, but I get why someone would be intrigued by the dynamic of, say, Shadowheart and Lae'zel (enemies-to-begrudging-friends, a slow creeping in of warmth, the straddling scene, I get it), I'm like on the very edge of being into Karlach and Wyll (the natural affection and friendship they share, their permanently intertwined storylines, I can see it, they always love each other on some level, adding romance to it isn't that much of a jump), even Karlach and Astarion have something I can see (their pasts of suffering resulting in drastically different personalities, one struggling to relate in a way that goes beyond touch and the other being incapable of being touched, there's enough to play with there), but Gale and Astarion, I just...

Like I can't for the life of me look past having romanced the both of them, just how differently the two of them behaved in love, and just how different the player characters I felt those romances implied.

I don't want to go into novel-length character analyses of the delicate interweaving of hubris and ambition and violence and whathaveyou, the threads of abuse that connect all of the characters in a spider's web of pain, the reaching for power that can leave both their partners in positions of untenable vulnerability, but just on the very surface... let's be real. One of them is someone who would say "ooh, don't mind if I do, let's be naughty today" when he orders a pastry to go with his coffee and makes a vow of soul-crushing devotion like three weeks into knowing someone, and the other is a guy who needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into both love and having morals, and thinks that stealing money from children is one of the most fun things to do with your clothes on. What are we doing.

Like, realistically, I think if they were interested in each other in that way, their mutual hubris-coupled-with-and-born-from-PTSD-and-an-intense-inferiority-complex would just have them Lesbian Sheep Paradoxing each other until one of them dies from an entirely preventable cause.

................ so yeah, all in all, it's just not a dynamic that appeals to me, lol.

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

I don't think so? There are a few interpretations, characters and pairings alike that I have found reductive (or sometimes based in an understanding of the text that I wouldn't necessarily call functional, to be quite honest with you), but I feel like that's always the case with any piece of media that has more than three people talking about it. There will always be people who are just... kinda wrong.

Sure, my enthusiasm for a few have lessened over time, and I've become less likely to look for- and read them because of having seen one too many interpretations that I didn't enjoy (there is, ngl, exactly one Galemance other than my own that I want to engage with at this point), but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't still be able to enjoy it in the source material.

Lately I've been trying to divorce my fandom-experience from my media-experience, and while it's been a bit of a mixed bag with not an overwhelming amount of success, it has restored some enjoyment to my engaging with the games and franchises that I like.

(I kinda credit starting to watch Stargate with that, tbh. I'm like just shy of three seasons in, and it's been fun to just see something that's somewhat silly and self-contained, but stands on its own, and does so so far in the past that any fandom discussion that may have happened back when it first came out is so far buried under years and years of posts that I don't feel like I have to concern myself with it.)

23. Unpopular character you love?

Wyll my beloved

In all seriousness, I feel like this one just happens to be a fandom where whether someone can be considered "unpopular" is kind of difficult to define. There are just so many players, so many minor characters elevated by fans to the point of having greatly inflated importance (at least to the story they want to tell within it), and such a variety of perspectives, that I just...

I genuinely struggle to think of another besides Wyll who I love, but absolutely believe to be criminally underrated when compared to the size of his role.

Which, I mean... partially just, see above a reason why, but it's just very depressing to talk more about at this point, so I'll leave it at that for now.