#bitter samgirl things

[fandom-hoarder]

Amelia shamed Sam into adopting a dog, without caring about whether he was willing or able, without caring if that was the best situation for him OR the dog. Not abusive? 🤨

(For legal purposes this is a joke. But also uh 😏 it does tick me off every time I watch that part lol.)

[fandom-hoarder]

[soullessjack]

maybe I’m being mean but at this point whenever I see sam dean cas girls post about their guys’ mischaracterizations all I can think is “you’ll live” and Oprah shrug gif because I have had to endure six years worth of seeing my guy exist as a baby shaped stage prop for the others or a teenage shaped baby who listens to fucking conehead gray and hides under blankets when he hears thunder. like not to make it a competition but I really truly believe I objectively have it the worst here im sorry

[totallyunbiasedspnpolls]

A poll for Sam fans, by Sam fans...

This sort of poll is running at another spn polls account, but they admit "I'm not a samgirl and I rarely read posts from Sam fans. I did a little research for this poll, but I can accidentally misrepresent views of Sam fans with these options." Points for self-awareness! As Sam fans who *do* enjoy the character and read posts by his fans, let's give the SPN fandom a better option, for all the fans. None blocked.

(* these are not Dean or Cas-negative observations, but observations about how the show treated the characters differently in very similar situations)

[pollsnatural]

*I'm not a samgirl and I rarely read posts from Sam fans. I did a little research for this poll, but I can accidentally misrepresent views of Sam fans with these options. If you don't find the thing that you're bitter about, please vote for "something else" and write about the thing in the tags (but this thing you're bitter about should be about the show, not the fandom, bc that's a completely different story and deserves another poll).

No hate towards Sam/Sam fans in the notes to this poll.

EDIT: The option "Dean didn't look for ways to save Sam from the Cage between s5 and s6" is incorrect. Dean looked for ways to save Dean. I'm sorry for my mistake.

Dean poll, Cas poll

[fandom-hoarder]

What I would give for those that have seen Lucifer and those that haven't to still be fighting over Sam.

(according to the asa fox episode, there are still demons that don't even know Sam is Lucifer's vessel/was possessed?? What??? Leading me to really wonder how many demons even knew about the apocalypse or Lucifer. Like, pre-apocalypse, demons believed in Lucifer like a god myth, blind faith included; and some didn't believe he was real at all. There were Sam factions and other special kid factions (presumably), and some of those were Lucifer factions but some were more zealous about Sam being the second coming himself, and there were non believers, too. What's the belief like in Hell when the apocalypse fizzles out? The show we could've had if the writers actually utilized Sam's plot threads. 😔)

disappointed but not surprised every time a demon meets Sam Winchester and does not go “LUCIFER??”

[stanfordsweater]

silly question but i need to ask as someone who is kind of new to wincest fandom, when someone says they're a deangirl/samgirl does that mean that either one is their favorite character or is it more of a kinning thing??? also... salmon dean.... i assume is not a beloved aquatic au tag that everyone but me knows about... ?? i just haven't been able to tell what people use it for 😩

hello bestie!! welcome to our storied fandom 💖

so "sam girl" and "dean girl" are kind of reclaimed terms that used to refer to fans who were VERY devoted to one brother at the expense of the other-- forums were ablaze, livejournals were raided, the whole shebang. this STILL HAPPENS, but these days we call the extreme stans "bitter sam girls" (BSG) and "extreme dean girls" (EDG). if you're on twitter you will likely see the BSGs calling themselves "sammies" and the EDGs calling themselves..... jensen ackles stans, honestly 🫡 not to be derisive but just in my personal experience the most extreme dean fans on twitter are there for jensen, whereas the opposite is not always true for jared. these terms for extreme stans have ALSO been reclaimed, with there being a "bitter sam girl club," and good for them!

meanwhile, on tumblr, ___ girl terms are still in use, now just referring to favouring one brother over the other. many people opt for a gender-neutral term instead eg. sam fan/stan, dean fan/stan. supernatural was huge in fandom long before kinning came on to the scene, but i do know a lot of newer fans might also describe themselves as a "sam kinnie" or a "dean kinnie." i know nothing about this subculture so you'd have to ask them about it 😌 TL;DR kinning is not the same as being a ___girl.

there are also "bibros," which used to mean you liked the brothers equally (get it? bi?) but now just means you like both brothers period, so someone could be a sam girl or a sam fan or a sammie and still be a bibro. there are also dean girls or dean fans or dean stans who are bibros. if you're a BSG/EDG, you are too busy throwing darts at a poster of the other guys face to feel the looooove.

then you have "bronly," a term which has fallen out of favour but is eternally relevant in this corner of the fandom. it began as an insult, but has since been reclaimed. a bronly is a "brothers only" fan, aka "only" cares about the brothers. while the show was airing this was a way to indicate that you weren't about to do PR for supporting actors, but now that the show is over it really just means you sometimes skip through cas' storylines in the later seasons. a bronly will never be seen calling this an ensemble cast show.

AS FOR SALMONDEAN, this is a fandom joke that emerged from saying "sam and dean" too fast, and j2 (jared and jensen) have made jokes about it on stage at cons. not sure if they joked about it first or if fandom did. salmondean = sam and dean when you're in a silly, goofy mood.

[fandom-hoarder]

"Like even in trying to take a stand AGAINST Lucifer, he's wrong."

GAWD i hate this show so much why are they like this to my precious Sammy-blorbo!!!!

Like. They never let him just be right. It's infuriating, because even when he is objectively correct (like... in feeling hugely violated by the Gadreel debacle) the show itself frames him as wrong.

i love this show so much, i love sam's trauma and pain and suffering, but i'm also so mad at it!!!

[Ref]

Yesss, dude. Istg it's all about the framing. I WANT the Sam Whump, but I don't want the narrative to constantly frame him as DESERVING it.

[angelsdean]

the average deancrit post: completely misinterpreting something that happened in canon, ignoring important framing context for the situation, and / or just making something up that didn’t even happen or falling back on fanon characterizations

deangirls: simply pointing out the missing context and / or debunking the misinterpretation

the average “cascrit” or “samcrit” post: literally just people discussing canon plot points and things that happened with the nuanced context that is once again often overlooked in favor of watered down fanon that woobifies and flattens their fave

bitter casgirls and samgirls: is this an ATTACK?!?! 🤨

Like sorry we literally just like talking abt the actual show and the things that happen in it in the context that they happen lol

[best-nun-tournament]

Round 1, Match 28

Sam and Dean Winchester (Supernatural) vs John Wilkes and Edwin Booth (US history)

Propaganda under break. Spoilers for Supernatural

Sam and Dean Winchester

Unlicensed and unregistered guns/vigilante justice

---------

they try to kill each other SO many times. well maybe not that often but more often that is emotionally healthy for both of them. dean tries to kill sam (4.14, 8.06, 10.03, 10.23) and sam tries to kill dean (4.14).

in s10 dean has this really shitty curse that basically makes him really violent and want to kill people. however he also wants to just try to deal with it instead of trying to remove the curse because they know removing the curse would cause something really bad to happen. they don't know WHAT the bad thing is but they do know it would be devastating. anyways sam goes behind dean's back and gathers a bunch of other people to try and remove this curse even though dean doesn't want him to AND even though he knows it would cause terrible consequences. eventually sam does get the curse removed and surprise! the bad thing that happens is THE FUCKING APOCALYPSE. basically.

in s9 dean lets an angel possess sam - something he knows sam would never consent to under normal circumstances - in order to save his life and then, when sam finds out and gets mad about it, dean basically refuses to apologize. and then he just never gets around to apologizing about it or even showing regret about doing it.

in s4 sam lies to dean continuously and works with a demon behind dean's back, and he's also doing the supernatural equivalent of drugs that give him powers. when dean finds out about this he locks sam up in a panic room to suffer through his (very painful) withdrawal completely alone. also sam is having hallucinations of dean calling him a monster. and when another character says that he thinks they should let sam out because sam is at risk of dying, dean says "at least he dies human." later sam gets out of the panic room, dean catches up to him, and they have this huge fight where sam just beats dean up.

honorable mention: in between s7-s8 dean dies and goes to purgatory. the concept of purgatory is previously mostly unexplored on supernatural so sam doesn't really know that dean is in purgatory in the first place but also he just straight up does not bother looking for dean at all and just goes back to living a normal suburban life for a couple months. and then when dean gets back he is SO upset about this and resents sam for it for basically the whole season. (this is also one of the reasons he tries to kill sam.)

also they continually try to save each other, at the expense of themselves + each other + everyone around them. they also treat cas (cas!! my best girl cas!!) really shittily on multiple occasions just because he's in the way of their goals.

ALSO. very important. sam & dean are, respectively, the vessels of lucifer & michael (like the archangels) and essentially they are destined to each get possessed by lucifer/michael and kill each other in the apocalypse (the 1st apocalypse, not the 2nd).

all this propaganda might be a little bit biased in favor of sam because i'm a samgirl but you get the point. they think they're so normal but they are SO fucked up. they hurt themselves AND each other in the pursuit of trying to do what they each think is best and they never ever learn from it. i don't even ship wincest i just think they are so interestingly fucked up AND that's not even going into all the stuff about their childhoods / pre-canon

John Wilkes and Edwin Booth

They were actors which is fine. Except. Edwin was better and John was bitter. And the John assassinated the President while delivering a line well associated with Edwin's Brutus. Edwin (already on the outs with John) disowned his brother after that.

Poll Runner's Note: Also their brother Junius Brutus Booth Jr was arrested because of John Wilkes Booth shooting the president. And the three of them had just done Julius Caesar in 1864 (John Wilkes was Mark Antony and Junius was Crassus), the year before the assassination.

One of Junius' other famous roles was as King John, also in this tournament!

[blacknidstang]

spn related but rather personal vent

For various reasons i've been needing to distance myself from spn in particular beside spending less time on social media and it's been because of number of extremely harmless little things that weren't even upsetting even but making me feel down a bit and now i suddenly remembered one of them was s5 and how sam was treated, how everyone was calling him incompetent and shit when he was literally offering to get himself locked in hell for eternity with satan himself, how that was their biggest worry. I think while i think undeniably Bobby did care about Sam and i mean, i think it would be so fucking absurd to claim Dean was ok with Sam jumping into the pit, but there's this persistent dissatisfaction of how these were never.. expressed.. and i love s5. I love swan song. It still wrecks me but there's a growing annoyance.

But here's the thing, when a thing or two about a show start to piss me off i just rather pull back. Clear my head. It's not that important. I dont like to log into tumblr and cry about spn's writing and a be a bitter samgirl™️. I dont wanna spend my mental energy on something quite destructive, for myself at least (and i'm sure that wouldnt make me a joy to be around anyway). Anyway. Why am i saying these? Idk. I think i'm trying to accept that i have issues with the show that really forced me to break out of heavy obsession and become more normal about it. I think admitting it gives me some peace bc i still love the characters and i still love so much of this show so unironically, even that cursed s5 itself is forever a favorite of mine. But at one point the dissatisfaction of it wasn't worth the stay. I'm still sticking around tho but i needed to vent it out in order to go back and focus on things that i love.

[sammygender]

oli. he. eighteen. i like to talk/write/complain.

currently mostly a spn blog. bitter samgirl. beautiful and extremely antagonistic relationship with dean, who i love more than anything (except sam) and want to squash under my heel. i also like cas :). spn is a horror story.

i complain a lot. this is your warning.

i like a lot of other things too. especially btvs and succession. send me film recs please <3

i write fic sometimes and make occasional edits (#my edit). usually i just write half thought out meta about sam though or complain about fandom dean takes.

all my original posts are tagged #oliver talks. if you wanna filter out the ones where i complain about life as opposed to meta or quips, filter out #personal. i try to tag all my sam and dean original posts as #samgirlisms and #deangirlisms, but in general my sam and dean tags are #sam winchester and #dean winchester. i tag relationships between characters with &. not really a shipper but i like sastiel so sometimes i tag that :)

at some point im gonna collect all my meta and link it here but. not right now <3

[fandom-hoarder]

Something that kinda pisses me off is how the writers reframed the trauma of Mystery Spot to be Dean's, when he doesn't even have any memory of it.

From Changing Channels:

Dean: Good. I've wanted to gank that mother since Mystery Spot. Sam: You sure? Dean: Yeah I'm sure. Sam: No, I mean are you sure you wanna kill him? Dean: Son of a bitch didn't think twice about icing me a thousand times.

And like. People just went with it.

Mystery Spot changed Sam on a fairly fundamental level. Like. He was always unhinged about Dean and Dean's deal, but watching Dean die? Over and over, so many times he lost count, and knowing that no matter what he did he was failing to save Dean. And the last death, when he lost Dean for six months.

I really think that is what pushed Sam from "I don't care if someone else dies so Dean can live" to "I will personally rip the heart out of anyone if it gives me the slightest chance of saving Dean."

And then Changing Channels comes along, and Sam's the one thinking "hey, maybe the Trickster (because remember, they didn't know Trickster=Gabriel) could help prevent the Apocalypse" and Dean is the one with a vendetta? Over something he doesn't even remember?

My GOD this show loves to erase Sam's trauma.

[shinelikethunder]

lol the bitter samgirl part of the knife circle is already scenting blood in the notes on that post..... the fun part of being a part-time sera gamble apologist who also frequently finds her writing enraging is that in principle i want to join in the fun of dunking on my extremely problematic fave, but in practice half the time people are doing so for reasons that are totally baffling to me.

and the thing is, for many reasons completely independent of her doing anyone's fave dirty, season 7 DOES suck balls. but it does so in ways that are so wildly different from the entire rest of her list of writing credits that i don't actually... think it says much about her as a writer? she crashed and burned HARD as an executive producer, with unknown amounts of fuckery going on behind the scenes, and it came out in the writing in the form of "sometimes i think you need someone to stop you" big-picture decisions and a bunch of structural messiness. but the absolute worst parts of s7 are management problems, and the most excruciating ones come from bringing back buckleming and not keeping andrew dabb on a short enough leash. i don't think she should've been showrunner for the seasons i'm saying she could've fixed. i DO think putting her at the top of the pecking order of writers and story editors would've produced incredible (and, yes, frequently enraging) results.

or as @chiisana-sukima so succinctly put it: they pushed her off the glass cliff so hard the whole show broke when she landed.

(in the interests of sharing and caring re: being fascinated by gamble's contributions and also wanting to throttle her for a lot of them...... here's my dirty little secret that i can't say in front of people talking earnestly about the feeeeeels s2 gave them: when the single crystal tear of manpain dropped at the end of 2x17 'heart,' i burst the fuck out laughing. i couldn't help it. they were trying SO HARD to tug at our heartstrings over Men's Feelings About [uncharitable episode analysis redacted] that the whole thing faceplanted into bathos. girl i want to be a fly on the wall of whatever was going on in your head when you wrote this.)

(......also none of my fandom bafflement applies to dunking on her for the abject racism. in fact i don't think it's possible to dunk on her ENOUGH for the abject racism. sterling k brown should've gotten hazard pay for agreeing to come back multiple times as gordon.)

[scoobydoodean]

I have 2 spn accounts, a Deancentric blog that ships Destiel and another account that unintentionally follows a lot of Samgirl blogs. So one blog follows majority Deangirl blogs and the other incidentally follows a lot of Samgirl blogs. And here's the major difference I've noticed on the different dashboards.

Deangirl dashboard: Great meta analysis. Beautiful art. Level 1 and 2 headcanons (largely based in canon). Pro-Dean. Stumble across reblogs of Deancrit. Bitter Deangirl blogging. Generally fair portrayal and discussion of the positive and negative traits and actions of Dean, Sam and Cas. Deanhater anons.

Samgirl dashboard: An entirely different pool of beautiful art. Whole lotta woobie!Sam art where Dean is his abuser. Deancrit about Dean being an abuser. Bitter Samgirl blogging about how people will find any excuse to hate Sam. "How can anyone be Samcrit he has done nothing wrong ever." Level 5 headcanons (you literally ignored canon to make that up). More about how Dean is Sam's abuser. So many posts about how awful Samcrit is. "Do Deangirls really think that Dean cries himself to sleep at night thinking that ppl thinks he doesn't know how to read." I have yet to see any actual Samcrit posts (not even links or reblogs from Sam defenders), not even after literally searching the Samcrit tag for it. The Samcrit tag is full of Samgirls crying about Samcrit and no actual Samcrit. "Samgirls are feral, but we need to be bc of the hate ppl throw Sam's way."

I literally have to block so many people on the incidentally Samgirl dashboard bc I'm not on Tumblr to randomly stumble across a post on how Dean is a toxic stalker who abused Sam by changing Amelia's number in his cellphone. Do you have any idea on why Samgirls seem to feel so attacked all the time even though I literally only ever see *them* attacking Dean?

If you dig deep enough into any fandom, you will encounter people who fetishize "helpless victimhood". Some fandoms attract more people with those particular proclivities than others. Supernatural and Sam in particular attracts people who hold those sorts of aesthetic interests because of his relationship toward accountability versus Dean's.

Dean is a character with an overactive sense of responsibility. He blames himself for the Lindbergh baby and unemployment and every child murdered by a shrtiga from 1990 to 2005 because he went to play an arcade game when he was 10. He also blames himself for things like Jessica dying and Sam not being in school. Other characters pile on this blame frequently. John blames Dean for Sam getting hurt (1.18). Ruby tells him (and Sam) that Sam is a weak baby who won't psychologically survive without Dean there to protect him (3.11). Meg alleges that Dean is "dragging Sam everywhere" (1.16). Sam rewrites reality from 1.05 to 1.21 to make Dean responsible for his burning desire for revenge. Cas and Zachariah and Gabriel blame Dean when Sam breaks the last seal because he didn't stop Sam in time. Sam blames Dean for him drinking demon blood first because Dean wasn't there to protect him and then—in a complete 180—because Dean is smothering (4.04, 5.05). Dean generally absorbs blame when it is piled at his feet because he has been blamed for things he couldn't control for most of his life and thus he feels guilty and responsible for things even when him being responsible makes no logical sense. He's never a victim of anything—everything is always on him.

Sam, on the other hand, tends to eventually deflect blame because he can't handle the gnawing bite of it for long. It reminds him too deeply of being left isolated and alone as a child and the feelings of otherness and wrongness he developed through that neglect. When his actions ultimately have consequences he didn't foresee and/or that he finds undesirable, it makes him feel ugly and unaccepted and he can't face it so he eventually finds a way to make what happened someone else's fault—usually Dean's fault. Nothing is ever on him. He's always at least a little bit of a victim and Dean always carries at least partial responsibility for his decisions (1.21, 1.08, 4.04, 5.05, 8.23, 11.01)

In other words, Sam has an under-active sense of responsibility and Dean has an overactive responsibility and that dynamic—driven by their childhood experiences—places them into a vicious cycle of blame being cast onto Dean for Sam's decisions and Dean absorbing it. Dean absorbing it reinforcing the narrative for samgirls with a victimhood fetish that Dean deserves blame and that Sam truly is a helpless baby. They never watch what actually happens on the show to see whether this narrative that Dean is responsible for everything and Sam is a helpless baby lines up with the actual events that occurred onscreen because why would they? That would ruin their enjoyment. Sam isn't interesting to them outside of his capacity to be mourned as some sort of helpless martyr. And yes—they will cry and moan about how horrible and unfair Sam's suffering is, but it isn't because they're having a bad time. They're having a great time. They love thinking about Sam that way. They wouldn't be here blogging about it day in and day out for the last 20 years if they didn't actually want to see exactly what they're seeing.

Related tags of note:

#sams motivations

#taurus sam in the flesh

#In which Sam is not a helpless little waif with his hands cast over his eyes being carried along by the tides of the immutable sea

#sam the hunter

#sams follower/leader false dichotomy

#parentification

[billiewena]

I'm just thinking about how Sam sees a happy family altogether at the pie fest and THAT'S what causes him to bring up Jack and Cas. (x)

Like....this was his family too. I could talk about the complete disregard for Sam and Cas's friendship all day, but JACK! Jack became a SON to him! He saw himself in Jack from the very beginning and wanted NOTHING more than to keep him safe from Lucifer!

Then there's these small Jack and Sam moments in the 15x19 script that make me emo as hell. Like as soon as Jack finishes his attempted prayer to Castiel and Kelly, Jack is lost. Both of his parents are gone again. And just like when they first met he turns to Sam and only Sam, desperate for his guidance.

And then there's Jack's goodbye, which originally had a scripted hug between all of them.

Everything about it is just so...tragic. They raise a toast to him and talk about him like he's dead, someone to mourn. Because in a way Jack really did die and lose out on an entire life by becoming God.

In a show that is all about defying fate and choosing free will, it will never make sense to me that they gave this kid no chance to live a happy life with his chosen family. It's supposed to be a victory because he defeated God, but it just doesn't feel like it. I'm glad Sam got another chance at having a kid, but I can't help but think of a world where Jack got to stay and Sam got to have those wholesome father/son moments in the finale with him instead (especially since the script confirms that Dean Jr. became a hunter.) They both deserved that second chance. They really all deserved so much better.