#bird primary vs lion primary

[wisteria-lodge]

I have a sincere question to ask and that is how can someone feel guilty about abandoning a belief? This comes up often when talking about Bird Primaries and I don't get it. I mean, I understand maybe feeling guilty if you were harmful because of the old belief, but feeling guilty about leaving it behind? It doesn't make sense. Like aren't we supposed to grow and change parts of worldview over time? I'm sorry if I may come across as judgemental, it just sounds like a very alien concept to me is all

Birds feel free to weigh in, but I guess the short answer is that Birds have a (to me, fascinating) way of thinking of past versions of themselves as basically different people. Lions can be a lot... stickier, about that sort of thing. Even if a belief is wrong, and you know it's wrong, it can still hold some emotional pull over you. There's also the case of the Burnt (or Burning) Lion who has been talked into something... but doesn't feel it, and therefore going along with the "correct" thing can feel like they're letting themselves down.

[kiame-sama]

Sorry if this is a question you've answered before, but early on in the twst HAE-AU, Lilia gave a short warning of platonic vs romantic grooming to MC. Do you have more hc's for the various creatures and the ways the show platonic love vs how they might court a mate? Particularly interested in the Octo-trio since they haven't had too much screen time yet. Thank you so much, obsessed with this AU

Warnings; platonic grooming or romantic, animal behavior, human can help 'groom' by petting in return,

Depends on the species to determine how affectionate grooming/petting would be treated. For many, Grooming is a social behavior for kost in Twisted wonderland and is considered a platonic behavior. Bats groom communally, as do Lions, Felines, Birds (to an extent), Hyenas, Cows, Goats, Seals, and canines, so too do their monster counterparts.

Harpies are allowing of platonic grooming for hard to reach places and in the case of pin-feathers. It can be taken as either platonic or romantic depending on the intent of the one offering assistance. For Rook and Vil, it is primarily platonic. But if the Human were to try to help Vil, it would be taken as romantic. Depends on the individual harpy.

For Leona, communal grooming creates a shared scent that allows prides to distinguish between one another. It also falls on the older pride members to help the younger cubs with grooming and fostering trust.

Lilia has a similar need to socially groom as Leona, making the Hoard his primary colony and he is trying to create that group scent and trust.

Malleus just wants to make sure his hoard smells like him or has some semblance of his scent on them. It is one of the main ways to quell his more possessive instincts and keep him from actually hoarding away his Hoard indefinitely. So long as those of his Hoard carry his scent, he can tolerate how they wander.

For Floyd and Jade it is less of a communal drive and more of an act they would accept from the Human. Floyd thinks it's hilarious that Shrimpy is 'grooming' (petting) him and being such a cute little cleaner shrimp taking care of their protective eel guards. The benefit cleaner shrimp usually get from moray eels is protection and food, but Shrimpy has provided food and affection, so Jade is keen to return the favor of meals provided with protection and meals of his own. Floyd is more of the protective detail and still wants to squeeze that little Shrimpy.

Cecaelia who are not related are rarely affectionate to one another, especially females to males, so Azul will be skittish and hesitant to let the Human pet him. Once he realizes it is not an act of aggression, he will get needy for affection and more petting. The only grooming behavior he will allow is the Human petting him gently. He doesn't trust anyone else to do it.

[candyswirls]

Crying in the Dark - Part 4: Revealed

Previous - Next - Master Post

Synopsis: Some of the Dark Angels and Sons of the Phoenix meet the little ones.

They had met up with a small force of Son of the Phoenix, a chapter from the geneseed of his brother Dorn. Brave, noble, and elegant. They fought hard and with honor against the necrons on this planet.

Lion held onto a wounded one as he dragged him backwards, using his other arm to shoot a bolter into the surging enemy. True to an Astartes, the one he was rescuing still used his own bolter to fire as well.

They were overwhelmed and he refused to lose anymore sons or nephews.

“Into the forest!” He shouted.

He concentrated as his sons gave him cover fire then dragged the Son of the Phoenix and the others in.

The stark contrast of gunfire vs birds in trees hit him before he saw it.

He sighed as he laid the Phoenix up against a tree, a large crackling green wound around his ribs.

“We’ll get you taken care of,” Lion promised him.

The Astartes nodded, “I’m still going my lord.”

He wheezed and Lion patted his head, “what is your name?”

“Sergeant Thaedeus, my lord,” he answered, his breath turning shallow. “Thank you.”

“I feel cowardly for retreating,” one muttered.

“We will return and conquer,” Lion said. “I’d rather not lose more sons than necessary doing it. I need to go back and get the others.”

“Perhaps we will see the little ones,” Pitir offered.

Lion nodded, “Perhaps. They are skittish.”

It had slipped out to this squad about the little ones. He had visited them fairly frequently. They did not always show themselves but they had become excited whenever they saw him.

He exited back to the planet, leaving the group. They sorely needed an apothecary.

To distract the dying Thaedeus another dark Angel offered, “Perhaps we will catch a glimpse of the little ones.”

“What do they look like?” One Phoenix asked.

Zabriel answered, “We’ve only heard descriptions from our Primarch. They’re about the size of a baseline but with the proportions of a child. They come up to his knee so thigh for a primaris and hip for a firstborn. They’re made of a metal that he said is similar to the Primarch of the Iron Hands. They look humanlike save for their skin, a tail that splits in two near the base, and animal like ears. Their ears are like oversized Gretchin ones and each has them modeled after ancient Terran animals. They all glow their own color and all have glowing blue eyes. Their hair is ghostlike and wispy. Blowing in a non-existent wind. They have shape teeth and he saw one unhinge its jaw once. The middle of their torso looks like it’s made of glass and you can see glowing outlines of their organs. He’s mentioned that they have long and sharp fingers and their hands look large on them. There’s fifteen total and they all have different personalities and names. They speak an unknown language and do not understand gothic or our native Caliban tongue. Our Lord knows that they are the children of one of his brothers. We don’t know which one.”

“If they’re made of metal then maybe they are children of Ferrus Manus?” One questioned. “The Primarch of the Iron hands did have metal upon his skin.”

“Rogal Dorn maybe?” A Phoenix offered. “Perhaps they hail from our Primarch.

Another Son of the Phoenix pondered this.

Sergeant Thaedeus shook his head, “Our father was a master architect. Not necessarily one of the forge. Have you considered Vulkan?”

“Have you considered Perturabo?” Another piped up. “We cannot block out the possibility of the traitorous Primarch’s. Magnus has great magic prowess. He could have animated them or they were granted life by a being of the warp. Our Lord did mention that they have a nose similar to Magnus the Red.”

“You are very distrusting,” Pitir commented. “Our Primarch has met them and can tell they are of no ill will. We just don’t know who their father is. Or mother. A combined effort.”

“Could have been more than one Primarch. Fulgrim grew up in mines and knew how to forge. Perhaps he and Ferrus Manus created them.” Thaedeus added.

“But Ferrus Manus was killed early in the heresy. More likely than not, they were born after the heresy.”

“Lord Lion has said that they look like Sanguinius with their features. Maybe they are children of the great Angel?”

There was a howl off in the distance.

“Careful,” Zabriel warned. “There are enemies that can lurk here. Be on guard.”

“Grox,” an Angel muttered. “My bolter is gone. I might have dropped it.”

“Search the under growth,” Zabriel ordered.

Pitir dropped down to a crawl to search under bushes where they entered.

Thaedeus grit his teeth.

Another knelt by him and gripped his hand, “Be strong brother. Help will come.”

“Found it!” Pitir announced.

He reached into a bush then froze, staring into it. He didn’t dare move.

“Pitir?” The Zabriel questioned. “everything alright?”

The Primaris didn’t answer him, still staring into the bush.

The others stood on guard, afraid he’d found a threat, some cocked or drew their weapons.

Pitir slowly reached up to unclip his helmet.

“Hi,” he said softly, “It’s okay, I won’t hurt you. Hi, little one.”

The entire company held their breath and watched carefully.

Pitir slowly held out a hand, “It’s okay, little one. We follow the Primarch, Lion El’ Johnson. Uncle Lion.”

Slowly, a metal humanoid rose up from the bush. Her eyes glowed blue as she kept them trained on Pitir suspiciously. She herself glowed a light yellow.

She emerged with caution, scanning the others. She held the bolter in her arms. She was just as described but with a short length of flowing ghostlike hair.

“By the Emperor,” Thaedeus whispered.

“They do exist,” Zabriel spoke, almost with relief.

The little one sniffed the air then moved inward, avoiding everyone.

One reached out to her and she hissed, ears back.

“Don’t spook her,” Zabriel whispered.

She came up close to Thaedeus, examining him as she gently set down the bolter.

The Son of the Phoenix stared back. Maintaining a few feet, she circled him, focused on the Necron inflicted wound. She crouched down to get a better look at it, scrunching her face.

Without warning she spun around and darted back into the brush, disappearing.

One tried to chase after but another blocked him, “Don’t scare them. They’re obviously very cautious. Are there others?”

The group scanned the trees and foliage.

“None, sir,” One answered.

Thaedeus breathed, “She was so close. She-she was…”

“She was so cute!” Pitir exclaimed. “Such big eyes and round cheeks! I wanted to hold her! She reminded me of my siblings!”

“By the Primarch,” Zabriel muttered. “We’ve seen one. We must let him know.”

Just moments later, they could hear voices approaching. Young voices.

“She returns?” A Phoenix questioned.

They watched with anticipation as two others came bounding up. They skidded to a halt when they arrived. One was dark blue and the other purple.

The purple one wrinkled her nose at the Astartes. Then her ears perked up, she began sniffing the air and looped around a tree to where Thaedeus lay.

She stared at the wound peering from his armor. She pointed at it.

“Ow,” she said.

“Ow,” repeated the other.

Both squads were amazed that they now had seen a total of three.

“I, Chichi-Bon!” Came an announcement.

A red one strode into the middle, her hands on her hips, frowning as she scanned the group.

She saw Thaedeus.

“Ow,” she said while pointing.

If anyone moved forward they hissed or growled at them, a warning to not come closer.

The light yellow returned, running up with two others. Twins, pink and magenta. The twins carried an old and large medicae pack. Still recognizable.

“They have medical supplies,” a dark Angel whispered.

They brought the kit into the fold and set it near Thaedeus. They maintained distance against the Astartes. Their focus did not leave them, ready to move if someone tried to approach them.

The dark blue one moved to open the medicae kit. Most items were recognizable but others the little ones had placed in themselves. A few had been altered. She pulled out various items and moved to Thaedeus.

A son of the Phoenix reached to take the items and she batted his hand away.

She snapped something at him in a scolding tone.

She knelt next to Thaedeus. He reached out a hand and she smacked it away as she opened items, focused on the task at hand. She took a stim and jabbed it in with no hesitation or mercy.

Thaedeus stifled a yelp. She continued.

“They know basic first aid,” one questioned?

The red one, Chichi-Bon, babbled something to her sisters.

Pitir was still crouched, looking at the little ones, “This is amazing.”

“There’s more,” Zabriel gaped.

A few others had joined the group along the outskirts, slowly moving in. Green, orange, light purple, yellow, various blues. They slowly emerged from the shadows and brush. Most kept their guard up but all wanted a view of Thaedeus.

“I count fourteen,” an Astartes said.

“Fifteen,” Zabriel said, motioning to behind the Astartes.

The Astartes turned around to see one right behind him.

“They’re exceptional at stealth.” He said, bewildered that she managed to sneak up upon them.

The purple one watched disdainfully, unimpressed.

Zabriel looked at her, “I’m guessing this is Xuxudon by what our Primarch has told us.”

The purple one spun around to him, bewildered that he said her name then spat at Zabriel.

Thaedeus hissed in pain, “Emperor Damn it!”

One little one parroted him, “Emp’rer dammit!”

Thaedeus looked mortified, “I did not mean to say that I-“

The one with the medicae kit held a finger up to his mouth.

“Shoosh,” she said, she went back to stitching the wound together, roughly.

The white glowing one pointed at the Astartes and chattered something.

Dark green answered her abrasively. White retorted. Then they broke into arguing. White said something and dark green screeched at her sister, charging and tackling her. They snarled and rolled around on the ground.

The Red one screeched at them.

The two froze then split, glaring at each other. They reluctantly hugged each other then moved away from each other. Another pointed and laughed at them.

Dark green hissed and folded her arms, pouting.

It grew silent as they watched the dark blue one. She held out her palms to Thaedeus. They glowed. She pressed them over his wound. He flinched but soon relaxed. Dark blue light overtook the green of the Necron wound.

He took in a deep breath, his lungs working properly again and his skin returned from being pale and clammy.

The light yellow one picked up the bolter she had dropped. She brought it over to the owner.

“Thank you,” he said.

She pointed at it and said a word.

“Bolter,” he told her.

The pink one repeated the word, “Bolter.”

Havine turned around and pointed to Zabriel’s hip where his own was, “Bolter?”

“Yes!” Pitir said enthusiastically.

“Bolter!” Yelled another little one.

Astartes knelt on the ground, and drew closer as the little ones seemed more comfortable.

Pitir held out his arms to the pink one, “Can I hold you?”

“Pitir,” scolded another.

But the pink one looked at the motion and slowly moved into his embrace, wrapping her arms around his neck and resting her head on his shoulder.

Pitir held back a gasp as his eyes lit up. He lifted her up and patted her back.

“By the golden throne,” he whispered. “She’s light. This is fantastic and amazing. She’s so sweet.”

“Oooh!” Cooed the light blue one as she examined a helmet.

One of the dark angels spun around, to see she had detached it from his hip.

“That’s mine!” He barked.

She looked at him then laughed. She hugged the helmet sweetly as if it were the softest and nicest stuffed toy.

The dark Angel seemed to soften.

“Don’t-don’t break it,” he warned.

She held it out, studying it. She ran long fingers over the paint design and gilding.

“Their hands are large for their size.” Pitir observed.

He now had a second one in his embrace.

The light purple one looked up at him and raised her arms. Pitir added her to his growing pile.

A son of the Phoenix did the motion to the teal one who held her hands to her chest. She seemed startled at him. She shook her head and retreated back towards the bushes.

Before the Phoenix could stand, the orange one ran into his arms, hugging him. She pulled back and gave a sweet smile. He held her and her twin tails wrapped around his arm.

Zabriel looked at the yellow one with long ears.

“Hello,” he greeted with a smile.

She stuck her hand into her torso, it phasing through the glass and disappearing. She pulled out a small biscuit and held it up to him.

“Oh,” he said shocked. “Thank you.”

He took it gingerly and inspected it.

The little one clasped her hands and rocked back and forth, waiting for him to try it.

He slowly took a bite and his brow raised in surprise.

“Ah,” he nodded. “Thank you, it’s very good.”

She beamed as if she understood him.

The light blue one put the helmet on and cackled as she went running. She ran face first into a tree and bounced backwards.

The Astartes gasped with shock and concern but several of her sisters burst into laughter.

She pulled off the helmet and shook her head.

Regular blue came over to help her up. Blue had ears that curved over her head like horns. Similar to the few records of what Prosperan jackals looked like. She seemed to have a calm demeanor.

“You okay, little one?” Pitir asked.

He now had one on his back, one in each arm, another hanging in front of him with her arms around his neck, one a top his shoulders, and another clinging to a leg.

Light blue jumped up and down as she inspected the helmet, brushing off bits of bark. She wasn’t hurt.

Their ears perked up and they all turned to where the Astartes had entered the forest.

Lion El’ Johnson came through with the rest of his sons and the Sons of the Phoenix.

A chorus of “Uncle Lion” rang out from the little ones.

The first Primarch smiled with surprise.

“Why hello,” he greeted. “I didn’t expect to see you out in the open.”

Several of the newly arrived Astartes gasped as they recognized who and what they were seeing.

The shy teal one went running to Lion. He scooped her up as she buried her head into his chest plate.

The dark blue one called out and pointed to Thaedeus. She looked proud.

A Sons of the Phoenix apothecary moved forward to help his fallen comrade.

The newly arrived members moved forward to meet the little ones. Most to where Pitir was as he carried several.

The apothecary remarked, “your wound is healing. I’ve never seen this color on a wound from a Necron before.”

Thaedeus answered, “This little one helped apply first aid and didn’t something to change it to her color.”

The Apothecary looked at the dark blue little one.

“Well done little creature,” the apothecary said to her.

“Emp’rer dammit,” she replied.

Several others repeated the phrase and Thaedeus smacked a hand over his mouth.

Jaws dropped in shock.

“W-what did they say??” The Chaplain of the Sons of the Phoenix stammered.

“Bolter!,” another little one said.

Several more parroted it.

“They don’t know what it means!” Thaedeus said quickly. “I said it in pain and they repeated it.”

Another said a swear in Caliban. Three more declared it.

Pitir piped up, “I didn’t teach them that.”

“I did,” Lion sighed. “I said it once and they repeat it.”

Filled with concern the chaplain held out his silver aquila.

On queue, the little ones did the sign of the Aquila.

“Did you teach them that?” Zabriel asked his Primarch.

Lion shook his head, “No, I didn’t know they knew that.”

The chaplain pointed to the symbol on both his armor and rosary.

“This is the sign of-“ he began.

He was interrupted as several of them exclaimed, “Grandfather!”

The Chaplain stared, “Grandfather? The emperor of mankind?”

He pointed to the symbol again. The closest was the purple one. She pointed at it then back to her.

“Grandfather,” she stated.

“Grandfather,” the chaplain said.

She pointed to it and then to Lion, “Father.”

She repeated it but pointing back to herself, “grandfather.”

One grabbed a stick and began quickly drawing in the dirt.

With odd realism, a quick sketch was done of a man. A crown of light above him, there was no mistaking it. The emperor of mankind, as he was before his interment upon the golden throne.

Lion barely uttered the next sentence but the silence allowed it to be heard by all.

“They’ve met him.”

(Next chapter is coming and I’m working on sketches of the Little Ones)

[alix-in-july]

Vampire Academy (book)

A main theme in Vampire Academy is love vs. duty. The authority figures are constantly scolding Rose for breaking the rules in order to protect her people, but she is ultimately shown to be in the right.

Rose: Snake Lion. Everything is about Lissa and eventually Dimitri in later books. She's got the typical Snake hedonism because she missed the drunken boarding school festivities while they were on the run. It's at least heavily implied that she was hooking up a lot before they ran away from school. She hates her mother for choosing duty over her. She has a Bird model about her role as a Dhampir, but whatever duty she feels is always second to her special people. The thought of being assigned to guard anyone but Lissa is horrifying. Her secondary is obvious. She's terrible at lying and is constantly holding herself back from punching people in the face. Not always successfully.

"...when something sets me off, I tend to punch first and then find out who I actually hit later. When it comes to those I care about being in danger . . . well, rules seem optional..”

Lissa: Double Badger, Snake model for Rose, Snake secondary model. Lissa feels guilty that all these Snakes are willing to cause trouble for her. She is passionate about animal rights and not letting people take advantage of others. She has a Snake model for Rose but it is the exception to the rule. She's a healer and goes to other people for help solving problems. Her solution to a vicious rumor about Rose was to make friends with all the important people and convince them one by one that it was a lie. She used a Snake model for some of that but hates dishonesty in general.

“And I keep thinking about all the things I could do, all the people I could help.” She looked regretful.

Dimitri: burned Snake Badger? At the end of the first book, Dimitri tells Rose he can't fall in love with her because if she's in danger, he won't be able to be a dutiful guardian. He'll abandon his duty and put her first. Rose describes him as patient and meticulous on several occasions. I could have his primary wrong. He's really reserved.

Christian: Snake Lion. He's known Lissa for less than a month and sets someone on fire for upsetting her. The most angry, vicious insult he gives someone in the first book is calling them a liar. He and Rose are very alike so it's odd she distrusted him so much at first.

Natalie: Snake primary, Snake or Bird secondary. She was willing to do anything for her father. Her secondary is probably some combo of Snake and Bird because of all the lying and plotting she had to do in Book 1. We don't really see enough of the real Natalie.

Victor: Lion Bird. He wanted to become King to save the Moroi. Definitely not a Loyalist because he doesn't care at all about his daughter or anyone else as people. He sees Natalie and Lissa as tools and is willing to kill people in cold blood to get them out of his way.

[supremebirdbracket]

The only gull who made it into the bracket (???) vs this classy bird!

Franklin’s gulls breed in central North America and winter in the Caribbean and the western coast of South America. As omnivores, they are very opportunistic and scavenge as well as hunt. They nest near prairie lakes or sometimes floating atop them. In their breeding plumage, they sometimes have a slight pink tinge.

Inca terns are found along the coasts of Ecuador, Peru, and Chile. They nest on sea cliffs and are also known to gather on sandy beaches. They eat small fish and crustaceans, caught by plunge-diving or by picking food from the surface, and also scavenge scraps from fishing boats, sea lions, and dolphins. These classy birds are categorized as Near Threatened due to El Niño events, human overfishing of its primary food sources, and predation of nests by invasive predators such as cats.

[shopsofiacollection]

The Splendor That Endures With Time: Italian silk || ShopSofia

Throughout antiquity, Italy has been renowned for its culture and art, which have revealed many remnants of earlier civilizations and a touch of its past that is inextricably intertwined with modern culture. It doesn't take long to recognize the main sector of the Italian economy as you stroll through the streets of Italian cities. Some of the best silk textiles and clothing in the world are being sold in window displays that are stuffed with materials in vivid red, blue, and orange hues.

 Following the arrival of weavers from Constantinople, Italian silk industry flourished. The people's inventiveness and the resources at hand were the keys to their success. Italy exports silk fabrics to all of Europe, primarily through the cities of Lucca, Venice, Florence, and Genoa. The primary location for producing silk fabrics that are sent to some of the best fashion companies in the world is Como. Due to the abundance of mulberry trees, which are essential for raising silkworms, and the widespread availability of water, which is crucial during many stages of silk production, it is referred to as the "silk city" in popular culture. While other procedures like weaving, dyeing, printing, and design are carried out in Italy, raw silk is also imported from China.

 Lucca silk

The city of Lucca in Italy was obviously well-established and a significant hub for the silk trade. Strong eastern influences can be seen in the designs of Lucchese silk fabrics, which feature roundels, birds, and single Persian animals. Their fabrics, especially those from the 12th century, have modest repeating designs in narrow decorative bands woven with silk and gold on a plain or geometric backdrop. Even now, these designs are fashionable, and they are used to adorn clothing. Lucca textiles are renowned for their variety and high quality. A weave of Iranian origin that resembles a damask and has a woven pattern that is lifted in relief from the backdrop is another prominent design. Gold is woven into the wings or heads of the majority of animals and birds that are woven.

 Special fabrics known as dropping auroserici, constructed from a combination of silk and gold or silver threads, are produced from silk in Lucca. They combined Islam and Chinese patterns in the fabric designs. Styles developed in a more complex and lively way. These fabrics' primary Italian design elements include vine leaves, flowers, and naturalist motifs like eagles, lions, wolves, foxes, and other animals. There are also Romanesque scenes, hunting scenes, vine shoots, and palmettes. Economic growth in Lucca is the result of the rising demand for luxury textiles in Western Europe. The economics of Lucca's silk business has a significant impact on Europe, mirroring the organization of the London and Lyon textile industries.

 China vs. Italy

When fashion was starting to become a big deal, in the 1980s and 1990s, the Italian silk dress business prospered greatly. The nation benefited from the increase in the mass consumption of fashion. In contrast, it is now more difficult to serve the luxury goods market because pricing is now a point of competition. But, in terms of innovation, quality, and design, Italy outperforms China.

 Italian fashion designers and producers continue to concentrate more on the high-end market while also looking into possibilities with other, less expensive options and retail brands. Italian silk weave gives its materials a seductive sheen and a dramatic light-catching appearance, adding a delicate and refined touch that makes them crisp and well-structured.

 The market for luxury goods is global. As people's mindsets change and they start to have a special preference for luxury and style as well as wanting to set themselves apart from others, the market will get more prosperous and larger in the next years. Italy provides a diverse selection of works of art, its expertise in textile design, and an engaging trip through time from the time of the ancient Romans and Greeks to the present.

To reach us out in offline mode do not forget to visit

Sofia Collections

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Email: sofiacustomerservice@gmail.com

Visit Our website - https://www.shop-sofia.com/

[somehwere-between]

Hey! What would a bird primary with a lion primary model look like ? Thanks!

Another question I like!

So, Lions are upfront with their beliefs and are less open to changing them; which is NOT to say they cannot change, it is to say however that these changes are slower and take time. If you look like a Lion, then you look consistent in your beliefs/morals/what have you. A bird, especially a young one or one developing their own system, tend to declare prematurely what they believe in— speaking from experience here as a bird primary. Lions are internal, and birds are external, so your morals will still come from the outside regardless of model. So a bird modeling lion would share select, consistent beliefs- the deeproots as I call them- if many at all, and their OUTWARD expressed changes are slower than the average bird.

Planning is, well, tricky: lions are about intuition, and birds are about plans and systems. I think a bird modeling lion would mesh these two together— they note how their friends (who are probably actual lions or other lion-models) barge into things and “intuit” stuff and make it into a formula of some kind… as only birds do. Yes, that is a self-roast. Bite me. Anyway, they can seem either too aggressive or too standoffish because they haven’t mastered the whole “feeling your gut” thing that is more ingrained in the lion primary system. It’s clumsy intuition that is only right part of the time.

Also, friendgroups. Birds are (in)famous for their varied friendgroups with varying views, backgrounds, interests, so on. (I point to “I-Know-A-Guy” bird secs for that.) Immature, developing, and/or burned lions look for people with similar or the same views as a way to re-assert their own morals— burned lions frequently look like birds, desperately trying to externalize their system-making rather than listening to their own intuition, which may have failed them in the past. Birds want variety, lions want consistency. A bird modeling lion has friends who are mostly the same, but gets restless and has “side friends” they might jump to in order to get fulfillment of different views.

Briefly discussing why this may happen— birds, especially young ones, are frequently dismissed due to their “flimsy” worldviews, so they might adopt this stable, outwardly consistent model of lion to be heard and seen by others. I’m growing up (I’m 17) surrounded by exploded lions and one healthy one with my best friend Sydney, and I adopted the lion model as a child in order to be respected and seen as human. I’m still learning that I don’t HAVE to know everything I believe in. I can figure it out as I move on.

I actually have a theme song for lion-modeling birds (I like to call bird pris’ modeling as Mirror-Birds, but that’s not an official term at all): Somebody to Love - Jefferson Airplane ! Might make a playlist later, who knows.

I hope this is 1) correct, and 2) helpful! Any other bird pris, especially with lion models, have any input on this?

-bird | badger

[wisteria-lodge]

Something like “The primary characteristic of a bird is an obsessive personality” is a very strong way of putting it, because there are some VERY chill Birds. (A lot of Bird Snakes, for instance, seem to be fulfilled literally just by travel.) Sure, many birds are obsessive, and many *Project* Birds especially are obsessive, but you could easily be a System Bird who values being a Jack-of-all-trades, and obsessing over one thing is antithetical to who they are. 

I do think Birds to share a need to poke at the nature of reality, and understand (as well as they think is practical or possible.) But there’s a reason why the Double Bird tends to show up as either the grounded, chill mentor figure - or the Mad Scientist. 

And it seems like Dragon here might be an interesting combination of both? Which is fun? Definitely sounds like an Idealist, especially since Naomi Novik *loves* writing Loyalist/Idealist pairs. (But I haven’t read this book, so I can’t say for sure.) I’m leaning Double Bird, although if he doesn’t sit down and explain his philosophy at any point, or there are too many disjointed elements... Lion primary is very possible.

Sortinghatchats - Uprooted by Naomi Novik

I wanted to sort my favourite book of the year, Uprooted by Naomi Novik. Check out @sortinghatchats and @wisteria-lodge for explanation of the system.

Agnieszka, the protagonist, is a doer. She loves touching and feeling things, running in the forest since she was a child, always dirty and happy to play and discover. Even her magic is like that - instinctual, discovery chanting, based on feeling and intent. She seems like a nice gut based lion secondary. Her village is in danger from corrupted cows? She throws a rare and incredibly valuable fire elixir on them. Her best friend is kidnapped and her mentor forbids her from coming after her? Agnieszka just barges into the forest, no matter the danger and warnings, doesn't even try to hide or go around the order. She doesn't like listening to authorities when they don't make sense. A lion secondary in her approach.

Keep reading

[wisteria-lodge]

A question for you: would you sort a living person with whom you are not in communication, and without her express consent, but whose words and deeds are very much on public display? Specifically: J.K. Rowling sure thinks of herself as a heroic Lion Primary; what’s your call?

I have spent a long time thinking about this lady. Possibly too long. But here's what I've got.

She's a Bird. She *likes* Lion primaries, and she likes them in that way a lot of Birds do - Lions feel magical and moral and easy and good. That's why Gryffindor is her good-guy house, and that's why Gryffindors always get a pass when they do shady things. They were always doing it for good reasons, because that's just how Lion primaries are. They know what's good, just by kind of feeling it.

(obviously this isn't at all how it feels to be a Lion primary, but it can SEEM that way, if you're outside looking in.)

And so she likes Lion primaries, and surrounds herself with Lion primaries. And over time, seems to have filtered for the most fiery, if-you're-not-with-me-you're-my-enemy Exploded Lions imaginable. This could also be why she's not interrogating emotional pings when she really should. Like it's heartbreaking to read some of her essays - like, no JKR, that's not a reason, that's a trauma response you ought to be getting help for. But she thinks there's inherent goodness with going with your heart over your head.

Which is also probably why, for the last two decades, she's been slowly surrounding herself only with people who agree with her - effectively Exploding her own Bird primary. She is notoriously stubborn and difficult to work with, and I have that from first hand accounts... but just think how much better an editor could have made books 4-7. Or the Fantastic Beasts films. Or the Cursed Child (we all sort of collectively forgot about the Cursed Child.)

But I see the Bird! I see the Idealism, I see the mind that likes puzzles, and systems, and mysteries. And then I see her just kinda... be lazy about it. Not think though the implications. Be happy with only a very surface-level understanding. Not edit, or update, or interrogate her system. (We know that her worldbuilding is sloppy. We know she grabs existing problematic tropes and then kind of uses them as-is.)

The more I dig into to her, the more I'll come across bits of her system that just seem very... young. They'll be things like 'Good people have kids, or if they can't, then they take care of kids.' Or 'People with mobility aids are good.' That's one's so weird I just have to bring it up. It's very consistent, and comes with the reverse - 'People who use mobility aids they don't need are evil.' Barty Crouch jr. is the HP example, but that situation comes up like - a weird amount in her mystery novels.

(also, I can't prove it, but I think Lucius Malfoy got a much more sympathetic edit after Jason Isaacs started playing him with a cane. Of course that could also be just because... he has a kid... so he can't be BAD.)

Harry Potter, the character, is also very much a Bird Primary. When he acts on really strong emotions it's because they're - yep, trauma responses. Mostly he's trying to figure out his world, synthesize everything Dumbledore and the Weasleys and Hagrid and Sirius tell him, in order to build his own system.

And he's a really loud Lion secondary, the way I suspect JKR is too. Her response to all of this has just been to double down, do MORE, be LOUDER. If her royalties, or the reputation of her IP take a hit, she honestly does not seem to care.

She's not stupid and she's not evil. Hermione was a complicated, fascinating female lead. JKR has an incredible knack for side characters. The books have good stuff to stay about grief, and depression, and I know it gets memed now, but it was a big deal (for me) when she said Dumbledore was gay. But this is how I think you can get someone who starts out in a reasonable place, and gets more and more out of touch, and harmful and wrong and dangerous - when locked into one way of seeing the world, and no one with the ability to contradict you.

[reds-burrow]

i remember seeing ask about an anon thinking on too large of a scale with trying to figure out their primary. that got me thinking that im probably doing the same thing. so what could be some lower stakes or day-to-day decisions that could separate the primaries? (more specifically idealists on gut feeling) thanks :D

Coincidentally, I just finished this post about gut instincts vs conscious thought (though it was mainly about the Secondaries). In it, I did note that the Idealists are divided by Lions trusting their gut instinct while Birds are guided by the conscious mind. Not to say most of us don't listen to both on occasion, but this is about which we trust and are more comfortable using as a guide over the other. Also, I should mention that some Bird Primaries build their system out of their feelings. They sort through theses feelings in a very conscious way, however, unlike Lions. Hold on, I think I have a quote of someone describing this...

My inner values and feelings are like a building, a structure of affections that inform my worldview. This involves an inner love for certain things, and an inner repulsion for other things. My values and feelings form “blocks” of varying hardness, depending on how strongly I feel about them; the stronger ones are more resilient…I constantly discover more about the structure as I go, and what I should change to make it better. For example, I didn’t have to factually discern a respect for human dignity; I simply found myself in situations where people did not respect human dignity, and it made me angry — I found out that I hate bullying.

(I actually found that when I was writing my SHC vs Cognitive Functions post, so technically it's about the Fi function. But I'm willing to bet you understand how it applies.)

But okay, to actually answer your question, I think with the current state of the world we have plenty of "big" decisions we have to make that are still easy to visualize. Like when it comes to COVID, what shaped your ideas about masks and vaccines? Or if you're of voting age in your country, how do you decide what/who to vote for? Even "smaller" than that though, have you ever been in an argument? How did you know your side was worth fighting for? Or if the other person changed your mind, how did they do it? What part of you did they appeal to, and how easy was it change your mind? (The trend is that Birds have an easier time changing their mind than Lions.) Have you ever been asked to two places at once? How did you decide which appointment to attend? Or if you have ever seen someone doing something you considered wrong, how did you know that it was wrong?

Based on what I’ve seen of their testimony, Bird Primaries generally have an easier time explaining these things because, for the most part, they’ve already thought it through. Lion Primaries may have a harder time putting their answers into words because in the past they simply felt something was right or wrong, and that was enough for them to base a decision on.

[solcomfortssouls]

I'm trying to figure out my Primary. I'm definitely an idealist, but my problem is this: I can't figure out if i'm a Lion Primary with a pretty strong Bird Primary model or a Bird Primary with a strong Lion Primary model. Could you help me with that? How should i approach this?

Bird or Lion primary

Bird and Lion can look very similar to each other, esp when you identify with the reasoning, philosphing and control over your mind like a bird, but also with the cause, ideals and instincts like a lion. That's how it felt to me at least.

I have totally seen myself in bird primary and it has only been a crisis situation I came through in my 20s that sealed the deal for me for lion primary. I'm a very logical detached person. I pride myself in being in control of my mind, of setting my mindset, on being able to concentrate on whatever I decide. I love my critical thinking, I love talking about why people think or do or believe what they do. We can do it over breakfast and lunch and dinner and reconstruct each side of the conflict and I won't get tired of it.

But when I logically decided the best for me would be studying law, because it's a stable career, I would have a good paid job, I like articulation and arguments and with my best grades and thinking abilities I could ace the studies - it didn't work. Because I hated the content. Because I didn't get fascinated, I didn't care about the cause, it was all memorizing and playing with words and after 2 years I was miserable from my incredibly logical sensible college choice.

So I left, found a faculty I never even heard of, small and cozy, most people don't understand what I'm studying, not to mention what I'm going to do with it. But I love every second of it. It's all critical thinking, discussions, reading of texts and then bringing your own opinions and interpretations in, it's writing and research and analysis and I love it with all my soul. I ace the exams. Now I work as a tutor for younger students and can see myself doing a PhD and staying in research and doing my own classes and it's a dream I didn't know I could have.

My mind told me law was a good choice. My gut was protesting it after the first month. This is not it. This is not for me. No passion, no fire, no cause, nothing. I set my mind to do it anyway, cause all the reasons. It didn't work. I have heard this tale from bird primaries with how much they ended up liking their logical choice, how they came to enjoy the benefits they figured and planned to have from it.

I can still set my mind on smaller things. I can support my gut instincts by doing the research and backing it up with arguments. But I can't go against my gut without being unhappy and miserable and feeling like I'm betraying myself and living a lie. In controversial topics, my lion roars in protest and I want to fight everybody. My bird primary model is screaming in the background to shut up and do the sensible thing of being quite and not burning down my bridges. In minor things, I can do it. In major things, I suffer doing it. In major major things, I can't control myself at all.

So I would start with that. How do you react in crisis? When you have a problem, when your logical mind and gut are in conflict, what do you choose and why? Can you adapt to what your mind decides?

Can you live with yourself, if you go against your insitics? Against what your "heart" is telling you?Cause a lion primary sure can't, even if their bird model is super strong and dominant in dialy life.

That's my experience. Hope it helps!^^

P.S. please send sortinghatchats asks to my writeblr @writingonesdreams in the future, thank you!

[wisteria-lodge]

I would agree with this. It's usually... messier? when a Lion primary changes their mind. They *will* change their mind, but there will be a lot of Emotions involved. They also might experience... kind of a lag. Like a Lion will do something bad, and THEN get hit by the emotional response, and THEN realize that they Can't Do This.

Hey SHC community! When sorting a fictional character, how do you go about telling a passionate Bird primary from an intelligent, deliberate Lion primary? I'm talking about narratives that don't give you a lot of information about the character's decision making process.

I've noticed that I tend to think "Lion!" when I see a character passionately arguing or fighting for a certain idea or belief. But of course Birds can be passionate, too, right? Every primary can.

So how do you make the distinction, from our side of the TV screen?

[thrina-thrina-on-the-wall]

Burnt Bird Explodes?

So growing up, I was told to always think things through, understand opposing viewpoints, and have a reason for what I believe. I was also told, 'these things are right, here's the reason'. I wasn't really given much room to question the base things my family taught me (at least I didn't think there was much room).

Because of this, my Bird got a little burnt and I developed a Badger model. Then when I started getting a lot more input, especially ideas that were only a little different or from someone I was told I could trust, I wanted to consider them, but found myself in the middle of a bunch of conflicting ideas, not knowing what to accept.

Also along the way, I've lost a lot of my trust in leaders and teachers because some of them have turned out to be hypocrites.

Alternatively, I'm a Lion who was told that I had to be a Bird, but neither my Bird or badger models are satisfactory. That would fit quite well with my initial feelings on the matter.

My Bird secondary kinda works well with the bird primary model.

I also think that I've of the reasons I developed a Badger secondary model is because my parents are less likely to ask me what's up with my life if I'm busy working. I'm less likely to ask myself honestly. Being busy is a good excuse. Without a worthwhile goal though, it is ultimately unfulfilling.

[mooglesorts]

went out for a long walk earlier, had a lot of Snake Secondary Thoughts i was excited to post/reply when i got home. accidentally took a wrong turn on the way back and ended up taking a VERY LONG walk, ran out of energy to actually write down the things for the moment fshdfklhsdfsdf

[amai-no-ura]

I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm curious to know what you think: By definition, systems like sorting hat chats put something relatively simple (their structure) on something incredibly complicated and ever-changing (life). How do you use it to your advantage without ignoring the many pitfalls?

One thing I love about SHC is that it is observable and applicable in real life. You can see people being Lion primary, Snake primary and how they interact with their numerous skillsets. You can see all of that in action. I think my way of applying it is to use it as a template where I interpret experience and people I meet. I don't think everything has to fit into SHC structure, because people are complex. But something can be explained using the system.

Like, why do my aunt, mum and stepfather all think I'm selfish? Because they are hardline loyalists (Badger with Lion model, Snake and Badger with Bird model respectively). They couldn't understand how I could sacrifice people for my goals/career/life path because they would NEVER do it. But I also couldn't imagine myself putting people first over what is right for me (goals, ambition, ideals). I'm Lion primary, hence why I have always been drawn toward goals and personal choice. It is empowering to me the way my loyalist family will never understand.

I can see that play out in real time independent of personal experience coloring it (no biases, no emotional expectation, no cultural influence, just how they function as a person). Hence I believe this theory has merits.

Or about the secondary. I'm snake sec, meaning I always prefer adaptability and fluidity over brute force. My aunt is Lion secondary, so she will always prefer directness and transparency over any trickery. That's the underlying formula of these secondaries. For Lion, it is transparency and solidity. For Snake, it is fluidity and adaptability. Even if my aunt is diplomatic, very good at hiding her thoughts, she is still Lion secondary. Meanwhile, I'm very direct and open but underneath all of that, I'm still a fluid Snake.

My coworker is a bird sec. He relies on his organization skills, built knowledge and systematic learning to get things done. He does really well in structured environment because that's how his mind operates. I thrive on unpredictability. I don't do well in structured learning courses or something like that. I thrive on real experience where I can adapt and face them hands-on. It's the heady energy of bird vs raw, hands-on approach of snake.

Then, I will use all these information to my advantage by adapting my language and methods to match the people in question. My boss is double Lion (and also ESTJ 8w7, so even more directness), so I won't beat around the bush with him and be honest always. My coworker is Badger sec (also ESFJ 6w7), so I wait for her to do her badger thing instead of rushing through it. Another coworker of mine is snake sec (ESTP 7w6), so I play with him using my snake. Etc, etc. Or when I have to charm a Snake primary, I show them how much my family means to me (lies) and how much I care about my people (truth) because that's what they value. If I have to interact with fellow lion, then I'll just respect their goal and encourage them on their path (because that's what we crave).

Another thing to note is I supplement SHC with other systems like MBTI and Enneagram. So all of them play a part in my application in real life. Like ... my boss is ESTJ 8w7 so/sp and Double Lion meaning he has a LOT of directness, strength and protective tendency. I know instantly he respects strength (8w7 + Double Lion), competency (Te-dom in general, as well as his personal values) and fair character (his Fi-inferior values + being so/sp). So I cater to all of that by not performing too much, just be frank with him in almost everything. Speak up for myself and everyone else, showing up for work. Always bettering myself and make sure to become a better person. That's how I get on his good side (and it benefits me too, since I become a better person).

So, I think that's how I apply it in real life. But what about you? Do you do the same thing as I do? Or is it something else entirely?

And for anyone seeing this, do share how you use SHC in real life! I'd love to read them all.

[wisteria-lodge]

I think that one way to tell Lions and Birds apart is that a Bird’s causes tend to be... cleaner. More related to each other. Like you’ll be a Bird who is into like, idk, ethical funerals, and therefore be really passionate about the ecological ramifications of different body-disposal methods, informed consent, history of different burial practices, guilt-based marketing, end of life care, accessibility of will-changing...

But a Lion is more likely to have a list of unrelated things that just get them up in arms. Like they’ll feel REALLY strongly about whitewashing in Hollywood films, but  won’t have a strong opinion on whether like, straight actors should play gay characters or something. 

I’ll sometimes be SURPRISED that I feel so strongly about something. Like I’ll start talking and be like, oh. I guess this is another one of my hills to die on. 

Can a lion primary have more than one cause

yep!