#bg1 spoilers

[y-rhywbeth2]

The most obvious abuse aside, Bhaal's also in possession of a+ parenting skills when it comes to communicating what he wants his kids to do.

You want your child - who has no idea who you are or that they're not simply dreaming - to murder the soul of the Cyricist that they killed this morning using your own dagger and they decide to choke him to death with their bare hands instead? Well, I mean, you could've explained what you wanted instead of hinting... or!

"You turn to leave, but find the exit blocked. The lone dagger has become five: a skeletal set of claws that hovers before you. A talon extends and presses against your chest, and a hollow voice chills the air. "You should use the tools you are given." It traces a line of ichor on your tunic, increasing in pressure. "Listen to what is bred in the bone." There is a flash of motion as the claws push deep into your chest."

Or you could just fucking murder them! Because that's his solution to everything. (Interestingly, if you're being a goody two shoes at this point then Bhaal is significantly more pissed, but you wake up before the dagger hits - but he also yells at you after you wake up too)

Remember; if your father is Bhaal, then do remember that he expects you to be fully dependent on him; that you owe him for everything you are and have; and that you're supposed to somehow understand what he expects of you perfectly without him explaining a damn thing and you will be horribly punished for your lack of telepathy. Wow, this got realistic all of a sudden.

What was life like for Durge as his high priest? Did Durge just have to guess what the urges want and then gauge how hot or cold their guesses are by the way Bhaal murders them in their dreams? (I mean, yes, he wants murder - but Bhaal gets picky about this shit no torture, forced suicide, falls, or collisions and you have to do it personally and it has to be done for fun and-).

[shaykai]

Hope to see Corwin in BG2 so I can punch her

[theultimatepielord]

A long and angry rant about Sarevok's inclusion in bg3.

As a big fan of the first two Baldur's gate games, I am very angry about Sarevok's inclusion in bg3, and it feels like they just abandoned everything about his character to be like "ooh, cool cameo, remember the other games?" (Which were better fight me). Major spoilers for all 3 baldur's gate games.

First question: why is he still alive? The events of BG2 ToB were in 1369 DR, and Sarevok was already in his twenties, per the Forgotten Realms wiki (this is reasonably accurate to bg1/2) , and bg3 takes place in 1492/maybe93 DR, which makes him at least 142 years old. Bhaalspawn age slower than normal mortals, so this could make sense EXCEPT SAREVOK DOESN'T HAVE BHAALSPAWN POWERS, as his Bhaalspawn abilities weren't restored when he was resurrected by Abdel at the start of Throne of Bhaal. So first off, he should be dead by old age, and resurrection magic generally doesn't work after death by old age (since it would in-universe make the acquisition of immortality completely trivial for anyone wealthy). Already a gaping plothole, but sure let's progress through anyways.

So storywise, you find him as the justice in charge of the initiation of the Bhaalist cult headed by Orin. This immediately raises a question: WHY THE FUCK IS SAREVOK RUNNING A CULT FOR SOMEONE ELSE?

You might say, "why wouldn't a Bhaalspawn be working for a cult of Bhaal?", well, here are some good reasons.

Sarevok never worshipped his father. His cult during bg1 was dedicated to making HIM the new Lord of Murder, and his massive ego and intense selfishness kinda precluded him ever working for someone else's aims.

Sarevok ended his time with Abdel as a Chaotic Good character attempting to find redemption for his time as a murderer (this isn't guaranteed, the player can not redeem him, but his entry on the Forgotten Realms wiki implies that he is canonically redeemed, and it's significantly more in character for Abdel (also CG) to help him find redemption)

During the events of ToB he regards his non-Abdel/Imoen siblings with scorn and resentment, and is not interested in supporting any future lords of murder, save perhaps the one nice enough to resurrect him.

Not only that, he shows deference to Bhaal, the father he never cared for, and proof of his failure, after Orin kills her mother/his daughter.

"Ok but it was for his daughter/granddaughter, surely that changes the equation"

First off Sarevok didn't really care for his close family, as he either manipulates Abdel and company into killing his adoptive father Rieltar or just does it himself and frames Abdel. Either way, the murder of his adoptive father is a critical part of his plan. He also kills Winski Perorate, his beloved tutor who told him he was a Bhaalspawn for helping him escape the Grand Dukes + Flaming Fist + Abdel crew instead of helping fight. A minor transgression to kill someone close to you over. He also tosses aside the love of his life, Tamoko, to pursue godhood. His evil side does not care for ANYONE. And his good side sure as hell wouldn't react to Bhaal declaring his daughter/granddaughter his Chosen by supporting them.

Which brings us to the final plothole: who the hell is Helen(Orin's mother/Sarevok's daughter)'s mother?

It really should be a doppelganger, given that Changelings can be the offspring of a doppelganger and a human, giving Orin changeling blood, which makes sense on the surface level given Sarevok's army of doppelgangers in bg1. Except throughout bg1 Sarevok is in a relationship (initially with Tamoko, and then later Cythandria), and changelings live as long as humans, which creates the same issue of bg1 being over 120 years ago. This means that Sarevok went doppelganger-fucking at some point in his ceaseless tortured post-bg2 wanderings and then opted to settle down and raise the offspring despite canonically never falling in love again after Tamoko.

Even if Helen were not a doppelganger, and Orin's father was, we still hit the issue of Sarevok needing to conceive her almost certainly with either Tamoko or Cythandria 120 years before the events of bg3, so either Orin's ancient or Helen was ancient when she birthed her. Neither really makes sense.

NOT ONLY THAT, if Sarevok WAS supportive of his daughter's scheming, why the hell is Orin just Gortash's mad dog? Sarevok's a consummate schemer, a relentless power-seeker with as much similarity to Bane as to Bhaal. Why the hell was he ok with Gortash taking prime position? Why didn't he ever teach his daughter subtlety or politics? Even if Orin kills Gortash, she couldn't hold Baldur's Gate. What the hell?

I don't think Larian asked any of these questions, I think they just wanted callbacks to bg1 so they tossed in the main villain because he's a recognizable helmet and name. And to top it all off they recast him. The most iconic VA performance from bg1 gets recast. Original VA Kevin Michael Richardson is still active and still does video games, with no major controversies near as I can tell. I can forgive not bringing back Heidi Shanon (retired for 20 years) and Jim Cummings (accused of sexual abuse), but come the fuck on with not bringing back KMR.

[bloedewir]

most treacherous treachery in bg3? easy.

Sarevok Anchev.

>> bg1/bg2 spoilers <<

yes, we were enemies in bg1 but he still was my brother. and then I gave him a part of my soul so he could join my squad. we traveled together. it's was a ✨marvelous✨ family trip. we talked, he changed his mind a bit and everything was really cool and sweet. (as much as it possibly can be if there's three Bhaal spawns in squad).

and here I am meeting that ungrateful ass in bg3 sitting on a throne of a treachery wearing a crown made of lies.

we're supposed to be friends against daddy, dumbass

swear to gods i switched from this:

to this:

in a second.

he didn't even have time to say "oh, fu..".

[crysdrawsthings]

Started playing BG1 while I muster mental energy to continue my Tactician ran of BG3 as well as planning out Honor one and...

I can't believe Sarevok is really just having some divinely ordained beef with yesterday college kid and it is the main force behind the plot.

Also yes, my Gorion's Ward is the sweetest half-orc fighter/cleric in the entire Faerun and, as you can guess, Gingy is a horrible, awful disappointment for the stabby-crabby side of the family.

[kathartic-kat]

The best part is that this motherfucker has a track record for this shit. Bg1, his ass shows up and is like "btw your father is eviillllllll and so might you be lmao. Someone's tryna murder you and it's your half brother byeeeeeee bestie xoxo"

Bg2 his fucking book on monsters has popped up like 20 times in one location and it's like "hmmm yes, this thing is bad, do not pet the spicy boi".

my favourite part of baldurs gate so far is the stardew valley grandpa showing up to eat cheese in your camp and tell gale that his ex gf wants him to kill himself

[blighted-elf]

Baldur's Gate 3 - Returning Characters

[tackypies]

viconia devir denied lolth because the goddess demanded a child sacrifice. her brother sacrificed himself for her, and she fled to the alien surface in order to survive. she was forced into sexual slavery and escaped only because the slaver died. at one point, she found a farm to eke out a peaceful existence and was tortured and buried alive by her neighbor, who she thought of as her friend. throughout her entire life, she is constantly hunted by both lolth's followers and racist surface-dwellers who wanted to hurt and kill her

like, in a game about overcoming your past, breaking free of the powers that've shackled you, viconia could've been SUCH an interesting NPC ally. what's even more insane is that it's clear that minthara's writers took inspiration from viconia's story. both of them escaped the cults that took advantage of them. we could've had interactions between the two women! we could've had viconia sympathize with astarion's plight as spawn! viconia did NOT deserve her rewrite into a flat, boring villain for shadowheart's arc

[theultimatepielord]

Clerics and Paladins and gods in D&D have a... complicated relationship. First off, gods do not necessarily have to be alive to confer power to their followers. Notably, Bhaal's high priestess Amelyssan the Blackhearted was able to use her clerical powers to great effect during the events of bg2, and the Bhaalspawn Sendai also had clerical powers, which were likely tied to Bhaal as she did not obviously revere any other gods (though some gods did allow their clerics to aid in the ascension of a Bhaalspawn). So the Paladin's deity might be dead and possibly forgotten.

Non-divine beings have also been known to grant Paladin abilities, especially evil ones. The demon Ur-Gothoz, though powerful, was nowhere near divine, but that didn't stop his blackguard paladin Dorn Il-khan from reaching god-threatening status, battling Amelyssan Blackheart when she possessed much of Bhaal's power and facing all 4 of the evil elemental princes.

Some Paladins have their oaths split between multiple deities, such as the Triadic knights, who simultaneously served all three members of the Triad (Torm, Ilmater, and Tyr, who was temporarily replaced by Bahamut).

But most notable to bg3 is the capacity to derive power from a cause itself. The most notable example of this I can think of is the Shining Lady, Caelar Argent, an aasimar who led a crusade on Dragonspear castle in an ill-fated attempt to invade Avernus and rescue the souls taken there during the Dragonspear wars, including her father, Aun Argent. (Caelar is listed as a fighter though this is mostly due to the fact that aasimars can't be paladins in 2e, and being a paladin would get her essentially no divine magic because 2e paladins suck) .While Caelar claimed her powers were from divine sources, serving all goodly deities simultaneously, this was actually bullshit as the plan to invade Avernus was actually schemed by the devil Belhifet, his servant Hephernaan (Caelar's main advisor, she was unaware of hes diabolic nature), and their allies in the Umbral Society (I think that's what it's called, it's only referenced once and isn't on the wiki). Instead, Caelar derived her divine powers from the faith of her crusaders, and she actually had substantially more divine power than most paladins. Kalen Dren also probably works as an example of this: he was a Paladin of the Threefold God, a demonstrably untrue heresy claiming Helm, Tyr, and Torm as all one god (note: while Torm held portions of Helm and Tyr's portfolios following their deaths, he never held all of them, with some instead given to Bahamut). Other heretical sects have been able to wield divine power as well, such as the Twofold Trust in bg2, who hold that Selune and Shar are one and the same. TL;DR Divine powers can come from many sources other than actual gods. These can include dead gods, random alliances of gods, sects who revere gods that don't exist or revere gods extremely incorrectly, and sufficiently large numbers of sufficiently deluded individuals.

WAIT WHAT DO YOU MEAN BG3 PALADINS DON'T HAVE TO PICK A DIETY AND IT DOESN'T MATTER???? WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF THE PALADIN???? WHERE DO YOU THINK YOUR DIVINE SMITE COMES FROM?????????

[y-rhywbeth2]

So, BG1 and BG2 Spoilers ahead:

Flicking through the original games again to check on certain lore points and also stopped on Sarevok's dialogues to make sure I'm not hallucinating, but nope.

Sarevok misremembers his past and his attitude towards Bhaal has changed. If he's supposed to be the same guy, then hey, Larian, you could've, I don't know... explored what the hell happened?? It would even be relevant to the themes of Bhaal's cult, indoctination, loss of will/identity and his shitty parenting?

I mean, I can kind of see where the whole "Durge, do what I failed to do so that Bhaal may live again through you" stuff came from, though I feel like they missed the mark a smidgeon (Sarevok seems a little too devoted to Daddy in BG3 from what I remember - he was not originally. Sarevok has no respect for Bhaal (dude's got twice the daddy issues of the typical Bhaalspawn), he's only interested in his power.):

Sarvok: "You are indeed family. No other could have lived to oppose me in person. Of course, it will not matter in the end. Ultimately I will prevail, and a new era will be born unto the realms." Charname: "You are mad! What do you hope to gain by resurrecting a dead god?" Sarevok: "Father Bhaal is dead, but the slaughter I will orchestrate will prove me to be the most worthy successor. It will raise his power from the ashes. The streets will run red with blood when my work is finished!" Charname: "Successor? Deities are not known for sharing their power willingly!" Sarevok: "Fool! I do not wish to RESTORE his power - merely to RAISE it! With the divine blood that flows through these veins, I shall assume control over that which he so foolishly lost! I shall BECOME Bhaal. THAT... is the only acceptable outcome. [...] Face me! Face the new LORD OF MURDER!"

Sarevok: "Fuck Bhaal, he didn't deserve his job, so I'm taking it."

As for the bitching about being resurrected against his will, oh he's so annoyed. How could his cruel sibling do this to him against his will???

UM, LARIAN???

Sarevok: "So. You have finally arrived. I have been waiting for you." Charname: "Sarevok?! Didn't I kill you for the last time in Hell?" Sarevok: "You did indeed... although that was no fault of mine. [...] I have done nothing but attempt to reform myself since."

Sarevok: "Regardless, I spotted [this pocket plane] forming and guessed at its purpose. So I came here and waited, kniwing that eventually you would come... and that then we could discuss my... deal." Charname: "What kind of deal? What could *you* want?" Sarevok: "What do you think I want, dear [sibling]? I wish to exist... I wish to be alive again. You can do that. The smallest fraction of your soul, my [sibling]... given freely, with the taint of our dead father within it. That would recreate my flesh, restore my mortality... Sarevok would live again!" Charname: "I killed you once before... what makes you think I would want to return you to life?" Sarevok: "I do not come to the table empty-handed, [charname]. You think me a fool? [...] I can help you. And that has its price."

Charname: "Forget it. I don't trust you." Sarevok: "As you wish. By all means, stroll about and examine what you will of your domain. Time passes and events move with them. I'm sure it will not take long even for you to realise the truth"

Basically, he holds you hostage in this tiny dimension and won't let you progress with the game until you share your soul with him and resurrect him.

Charname: "...I will restore you." Sarevok: "So I have cheated death! Thank you, dear [sibling]... no gift could please me more." ... Sarevok: "I live! Flesh and blood and bone! I am ALIVE! Ha ha ha ha ha! I swore I would scratch and crawl my way back into the world of the living... and I have done it! "Though my sword and armour have not appeared. No matter. Without the Bhaal essence to channel their powers, they are of little use. I shall make do without them, as I once did. Thank you, [charname]. I am pleased."

Oh, he totally didn't want to escape! See how mad about it he is! See how happy he was in the afterlife??

*muttering*

(Sarevok bitches about this in his journal and Solath manifests over his shoulder and whacks him over the head with her staff because excuse you?? After all that nagging??)

[shaykai]

Oh my blood cursed kin, how do you do what you do?

In other words I’ve been thinking about Kaine (BG1 protag) and Vat’il (BG3 durge) and their parallels/what would happen if they got to interact in some way, have a WIP that I may or may not finish

[maleficore]

It will never cease being funny to me (in a "my god this is pathetic" way) how much the doppelganger subplot in BG3 sucks ass meanwhile BG1 had none of the flashy visuals, yet that part of the game had me literally questioning my own sanity thanks to the power of that game's storytelling alone. I really felt like I couldn't trust fucking anyone, including myself. In Larian's Gate it's just like.. oh yeah Hi Orin. Even when I'm not expecting someone to be a shapechanger, I just get surprised. There's literally no emotional weight to it.

And don't get me started on how stupid the whole Yenna failsafe is.

[e-suds]

YES my jaw dropped when I got to the 'slaughter-kin' reveal at the end of act 2 because it IS such a gorgeous twist on the Sarevok & Charname dynamic. And I experienced so much joy getting to be truly shocked by the realization that 'oh my god I am bhaalspawn and I am fighting my sibling' in a playthrough of a game in 2023 What really got me was especially what we've got in the Throne of Bhaal BG2 expansion where they went deeper into the parallels between Sarevok and charname, and the nature of that Bhaal-tainted siblinghood. There's something so gorgeous about the Durge's potential for redemption mirroring Sarevok's muddied redemption at the end of Throne of Bhaal. Both the durge and Sarevok can end their respective games a changed person, equally grateful for and resentful of the opportunity to stray from Bhaal that their sibling inadvertently gave them with their blade

sarevok and gorion's ward. orin and the dark urge. "are we not one and the same, my brother? one soul in two bodies. you and i will never end, even in death." do you get it?

[anderstrevelyan]

Baldur's Gate 1, every time you load it up:

Sceleritas Fel circa Baldur's Gate 3, "My liege, I do believe we've been quoting it wrong all this time":

[morelikebaldursgay]

HOLY SHIT IMOEN’S STILL ALIVE?

AND SHE’S PART VAMPIRE? AND DOES MAGIC GENDER-AFFIRMING SURGERY?

I guess Dirge and Astarion are going to be going on a trip to Athkatla after defeating the Netherbrain…

[blackjackkent]

Ask prompt fill for @astreamofstars for this ask meme: Questioning Sentences, Vol. 33 Jaheira/Khalid (and others) - “Are you getting my wife into trouble?” Two fills for the price of one cos I couldn't decide if I liked this idea or the other one better for this prompt so I did both. XD Set during Siege of Dragonspear, but doesn't include any spoilers.

-----

“All right.” Caden sways blearily on his feet, gesturing with the tankard in his hand. “Are you ready… for the master plan?”

“Minsc is ready,” Minsc agrees eagerly. “For a plan which Caden makes is masterful indeed!’

They make a rather comical tableau, gathered together in the shadows at the edge of the coalition camp. Caden is pacing unsteady circles, occasionally stopping to lean on one of the nearby trees. Nearby, Minsc and Rasaad sit side by side; Minsc has drained his mug completely and his eyes are wide with inebriated enthusiasm, while Rasaad is holding himself to ramrod stillness, the alcohol only evident in the slightly unfocused look in his eyes and the amused smile playing around his lips.

And there’s the cat, of course, which is prowling through the grass around Caden’s feet. Unlike Caden and the others, though, the cat almost melds into invisibility with the shadows. Its fluffy coat is dark gray except for a stripe of white along the tail, leaving the glint of its eyes the only obvious sign of its presence.

“Steady, Caden,” Rasaad says with a low chuckle, watching his friend take another gulp of ale. “If you are not careful, I believe you might pitch over.” 

He takes a sip from his own mug and glances over her shoulder back towards the center of the camp. No one seems to have noticed them sneaking off; most of the army has gone to sleep and the fires are burning low. The guards on watch are attentive to threats from the outside, and they have little interest to spare for the erstwhile Hero of Baldur’s Gate and his friends lurking drunkenly outside Torsin de Lancie’s tent.

“Nonsense,” Caden says gravely. “My balance is perfect and my ideas better still. Now--” He points at the cat, who is watching him with a glassy-eyed attentiveness, its tail lashing back and forth. “The key to it all.” He swings his hand in a wide arc and points dramatically into the darkness. “...A hole.”

Minsc turns his head to peer in the direction Caden is pointing and the wall of dark green canvas that sits there. “A tent,” he corrects Caden earnestly.

Caden blinks, then releases a very uncharacteristic giggle and downs another mouthful of his drink. “Nooooo,” he says, over-enunciating. “There’s a hole in the tent.” He points again at the cat. “And you can fit through it.”

The cat mrowls thoughtfully, then flops over onto its side and rolls so it is looking at Caden upside down. 

“Exactly,” Caden says, nodding several times vigorously. “And then - havoc. Shred de Lancie’s shirts. Steal his sword. Whatever you can think of.”

“It would certainly serve him right,” Rasaad agrees. He smirks over the rim of his mug as he takes another sip. “We would send Caden himself, but we have all seen his attempts at subtlety.”

“Shuuuush…” Caden whines, laughing, and punches Rasaad gently in the shoulder. This does, in fact, overbalance him and he sits down hard in the grass next to the tent’s front peg. “Oof. Well?” He grins goofily at the cat. “What d’you think?”

The cat climbs slowly and methodically up Caden’s arm until it is balanced on his shoulder, and begins to knead its claws vigorously into his shirt.

“Ow.” He grunts. Reaching up, he picks the cat up and sets it back on the ground, climbing unsteadily back to his feet. “I’ll take that as a yes. C’mon, Rasaad and Minsc and I will keep guard, and you can--”

He stops abruptly as, turning, he bumps into a man standing in his way who seems to have materialized out of the shadows. “Oh. Hello, Khalid,” he says, blinking rapidly like a child caught raiding the pantry.

Out of armor, Khalid looks about an inch shorter and considerably less broad than he usually does; his mop of dark hair is mussed from his helmet and he’s dressed for bed in a loose, dark tunic and a pair of Calishite-style trousers. “G-good evening, Caden,” he says cheerfully; his weariness from the day’s travel is evident in the thickness of his stammer, but he grins good-naturedly. “Are you g-g-getting my wife into trouble?”

Caden cocks his head at the older man innocently, an effect marred a little as he sways back on his heels. “Dunno what you’re talking about,” he says.

“Mmhm.” Khalid peers past him at the cat who has begun to groom itself, its fluffy tail curled up over its back. “S-she is not in b-bed, and that c-c-c-cat looks familiar. Are you quite sure?”

Caden follows his gaze and shakes his head. “It’s just a cat,” he says, very seriously. 

Khalid laughs. “There is n-n-no fooling me, C-Caden, I’m afraid,” he says.

At the sound of his voice, the cat’s head suddenly shoots up. Darting past Caden, it hurls itself at Khalid’s legs and begins circling him, rubbing up against his shins and purring ecstatically. 

Khalid’s grin softens. “Y-you see?” he murmurs. Crouching down, he runs a hand slowly along the cat’s silky fur from head to tail-tip, and the purring rises in volume like the rumble of a distant thunderstorm. “I would kn-know her in every shape,” he murmurs. “Though… the s-s-s-stripe on her tail is a d-d-dead giveaway.”

The cat nips at his hand, and he chuckles. “Am I g-g-giving away your secrets, my love? I’m s-s-sorry.” He raises an eyebrow at Caden. “N-now - out with it. Are you g-g-getting my wife into trouble?”

There’s a low hissing sound, and the wildshape melts away, leaving Jaheira, curled awkwardly on the ground, pressed against his thigh. She looks up at him with a bleary smile and pokes him in the side. “How dare you?” she says reprovingly; the words, though carefully pronounced, have a distinct tipsy slur. “I do not need the boy’s help to get myself into trouble.”

“Ahhhhh, I s-see.” Khalid’s eyes widen and he juts out his jaw, mock-appalled. “A d-d-drunken band, the l-lot of you.”

“I believe you have mispronounced ‘criminal masterminds,’ Khalid,” Rasaad says with a sage nod. 

“Well, t-t-tell me, then,” Khalid says. His lips twitch with amusement. “What c-c-conspiracy can you be m-m-masterminding at this t-time of night?”

Caden downs the rest of his mug. “Messing with Torsin de Lancie’s tent,” he says matter-of-factly.

Khalid tilts his head slowly to one side. His eyes flick over the tent, to the hole in the fabric at its rear, then to Caden, then to Jaheira. Then he starts to laugh. “Ahhhh, I see,” he says, shaking his head ruefully. “Well… why d-d-didn’t you say so in the f-f-first place? C-carry on.”