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ikathemadhatter · 3 years

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For the meme, top 5 Death Note characters and why!

I’m sorry for the late reply, you know I had a hell of months but here ich back 💪 Characters aren’t really in order of preferences tho, but here we go:

1. L Lawliet

Rather predictable, he was my favorite character since I watched Death Note for the very first time.

What fascinated me back then (aka 2008) was the fact L character broke the canon detective type I’ve seen in movies and series for a long while. In a typical crime story, the detective is the good dude chasing after the evil criminal and bringing back order -swaying indeed the flag of justice. Following the reasoning of several characters, especially some in the Kira Task Force, L is Justice while Kira is the evil criminal. Apparently -but, in my brutal and honest opinion, I don’t believe L is the emblem of justice. He is represented as that but Death Note is also a story that talks about justice and shows how justice, a misleading concept created by imperfection itself (humanity), is a tool to justify your actions. Because let’s face it, L used his power and all his means to confine and torture two young people just to prove his suspects were true, he wouldn’t mind using people to achieve his goal aka catch Kira. He represents justice because he’s the three world's greatest detective because he solves the most difficult cases but haha this is his main hobby, his reason to live and he doesn’t exactly empathize with other characters. There are some panels where he shows feelings, I think he truly respects some agents of the Kira Task Force and didn’t want anyone to die, but at the same time the most of his actions weren’t righteous at all. At least this is my opinion but this is also why I love this character; last but not least, his quirkiness is unique and funny and another fact that tickled my interest is what is shown of his personality... I like to believe that his truer personality is what we see in the Yotsuba Arc, but I also think he is rather good at adjusting his personality to the task. I would see it coming from a person really able to lie and doing it with no regret.

2. Light Yagami

To be rather honest, I relate to this character for a variety of reasons and this is probably why it breaks my heart to see his decline in the second arc. I’ve read tons of mangas and watched tons of anime in my life, but he keeps being the best protagonist of a shonen manga in my opinion.

Might it be a controversial opinion or not, I don’t think Light is an evil character -especially he’s not a sociopath or a psychopath. Death Note’s plot marks perfectly how much the use of a simple tool like the notebook itself corrupts the soul no matter how good their intentions are; it’s a magic object, but most importantly it’s a tool that lets you kill someone by not effectively showing you’re committing murder. I think the human mind is affected in a different way if murder means washing your hands with blood, visually doing it, instead of simply writing down a name on a notebook and waiting for that person to die of a heart attack. This means I guess Light wouldn’t go that far if he has to actually kill people with his own hands; at the beginning of the manga he realizes what he did -killing people-, but he ‘recovered’ rather quickly from the shock because of two reasons:

- he didn’t physically kill them so his mind didn’t process the action of murder in that sense

- he found quickly a coping mechanism aka he rationalized the Death Note as a holy tool that would serve for a better purpose

Light is in fact a character with pure idealism. He killed most wanted criminals who actually deserved to die in order to make the world a better and safe place. Every one of us, at least once in our life, has thought a rather evil criminal should deserve to die -because we’re humans and our emotions may be harsh and strong even towards our similar. It’s within our nature. And so it was within Light’s nature, to naively believe that killing criminals the world would be better. He also did kill people coming in his way, yes, and he also knew that it was wrong to kill those innocent people meant to be a threat to him. Why did he do it anyway? Because at some point he knew he was a martyr, someone who had the responsibility to sacrifice for the sake of the whole world. He is more selfless than other characters I might say, rationally avoided any futile emotion that could hinder his actions and plans. I mean, try to think what it means to push back your emotions, to block out everything that makes you human in a sense. Someone else would have probably gone crazy... This is why I believe his last speech is much more a liberation like he’s spitting out everything he’s held back and carried alone on his shoulders for years. At some point you want people to understand your achievements, your ideals.

Light is indeed a controversial character, rather complex and there’s a lot you can tell about him. He did bad things, I know but... I admire his will, to be honest.

3. Naomi Misora

MY QUEEN. I still think her death is the most brutal one... And even if I understand why her character needed to leave the main plot, it would have been rather interesting to see her interacting with L and the Kira Task Force.

I thank the existence of Another Note, because we can form a better idea of her possible personality. She’s absolutely a strong woman, intuitive and her kind of reasoning follows L’s investigations somehow. It’s that kind of character who’s able to balance rationality and acumen, which makes her surely a good FBI agent; her only flaw, probably, but it’s also the reason I love her, it’s her empathy and ability to feel. It’s also true that in the Death Note she was veiled by the loss of her fiancee and she was too reckless at following Light, but it showed how fragile and human she could be.

Speaking of Another Note, I loved all those scenes where she follows B’s weird suggestions -like pretending to be a corpse or sitting in a crouch- because even she knows it might be stupid she’s also like ‘Okay let’s try’. Demonstration of a kind of open-mindedness.

4. Aizawa

I love the critical thinking process of this character. He never takes things for granted and let’s remember he even left the Kira Task Force because he didn’t agree with L’s me and methods. In the second arc, he suspects of Light, senses that something is off, and trusts his guts enough to make some researches on his own. He incarnated the typical detective character who really wants to bring back order and justice and probably his way to clash with L and Light’s way of thinking made me like this character. It wasn’t love at first sight, in fact, I appreciated him more reading the manga (which I read after watching the anime) but it’s a character you learn to respect.

5. Ryuk

Just look at him. At his design, at the weird way he twisted his body or when he goes crazy eating a delicious apple, at his stupid jokes and any silly moments... and you think he’s just a goofy character when bam! the least you expect he reminds you he’s a Shinigami, a very bored one, and as a Shinigami, his task is to write down some human being’s name. Light’s included -though in this case, he did say till the beginning he would be the one writing Light’s name when the moment would come.

What can I say? Look at him, he makes you laugh, he’s the Boogeyman, he’s goofy, he’s fucking scary.

In this list I should also add Beyond Birthday, but probably I like the idea I have of him. Anyway I love him we all know it bye haha-

#death note #kiranatrix #ikatalks #this is me talking too much #don't take what I say seriously it's just a quick intro of some aspects #dn characters are too complex and it's hard to say why exactly you love them #sorry for the late reply #catching back with asks

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aceandart · 4 years

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Hey! I read your recent post and it read differently to a lot of posts under the destiel tag as of now. Personally, I’ve seen the first 5 seasons (watched it about 5 yrs ago), but haven’t been caught up to date on any of the recent stuff other than the Destiel apocalypse that’s happening right now. Could you explain the following?

“...mostly being this show is a misogynistic racist homophobic consent issue-ridden pile of bad writing “.

I was contemplating returning to the show and tuning in for the missing seasons, but what you said about it has now placed me on the fence. Could you elaborate and advise?

Thank you so much! I appreciate seeing an honest post that doesn’t sugar-coat or overlook bad writing/negative characteristics of a show!! :)

[re this]

Hi!

Well, I feel like the finale probably took care of any fence-sitting you were doing (and sorry I couldn't reply sooner), but actually my answer wasn't going to change even if the finale was okay (good, imo, was always a stretch): No, I personally would not recommend watching this show. and while my answer is mostly because of the things I am going to list to answer the rest of this question, I was also going to say - you dropped the show in s5 and that was five years ago? Whatever caused you to drop it in the first place, it probably got a lot worse. (It literally doesn't even matter what your major grievance was, they have since doubled, tripled down in terms of how bad it was.) Trying to marathon through ten seasons (20-23 episodes long each) is hard; trying to marathon through all of that to get something without a satisfactory ending is a lot of emotional labor for no payout. It's not just that this is a bad show (though it really, really is, on every level); it's that you have already tried it, you tried arguably the better seasons of it, and you still didn't want to stick to it. By the nature of how tumblr works, it can make anything look so much better than it is, just because in general the people you see hyping it up *like* the product, have decided to devote their fandom time to it, are highlighting the choicest parts of it. spn was always about the potential around the edges, the story fans made of it; the actual product was always secondary to the could have, should have beens, and this gets truer the later into the show you get. I'm not saying there weren't some great episodes, some great scenes, and even some great mini-arcs, but it was a drop in the bucket to everything else. and I'm positing this answer on the idea that you are asking because you want to watch the show, and not because you want to use the show as a supplemental for your fandom experience, but if it is the latter, I'll just say I'm currently heavily involved in reading fanfic for a fandom I've never actually watched a whole episode for, and while I'm probably missing some context I'm still highly enjoying it. fandom, honestly, so often becomes so much more than the bones we build it on. and if you want a little more, catch some "greatest hits" videos or catch up on just some of the “must-see” episodes and save yourself from having to watch all the moments in-between, because there are a lot more of them than the good parts. very few shows improve as they age out, and before the nov 5th resurgence if you weren't already following spn blogs, likely the main spn meme you were coming across was the annual 'salt and burn this dead horse' that went out after each season renewal. the tl;dr answer is really, it's not worth it. (to be honest, at the end of the day, despite the sheer amount of time, energy, and words I've put into this fandom over the years, and I put in a lot, I didn't actually like the majority of the show. so, you know, grain of salt on my opinion. then again, you left it seasons before I did.) That said, buckle up, cause now I'm gonna tell you why:

Literally, The Shitty Writing

I feel like the finale speaks for this point by itself, but before I get into all the "problematic" bad writing spn does, I want to talk about the fact that the writers are also just fundamentally bad at the craft of writing.

continuity errors. they’d change their lore/creature ability to fit their plot. (the reapers esp got the end of that bad stick.) the characters will often forget (monster-slaying) solutions that worked before (holy wood, yarrow, christo, creative approaches like exorcisms on recording, spells to remove angels from their vessels, bullet with a devil’s trap, etc). the writers forgot their own timeline more than once. the random retcons they'd do. sometimes it would also lead to plot holes.

which, speaking of, they had plenty of

there's also things that don't count as plot holes but are very large missed opportunities (ex: Dean spends a year in Purgatory and no one recognizes him? he doesn't bring up his daughter?)

I don't even know what this one would fall under, but if a character wasn't right in front of them, they would forget that character's existence. not just Adam (though that was a big one), but there were so many secondary characters that even in places it would make sense to mention them, much less bring them around, they didn't. or because they would not expand their main character list, characters who should have been around a lot more than they were (*cough* Cas, but that's an easy one, I'm also talking about characters like Kevin) would have these huge gaps between episodes that didn't make sense

they don't really have character development. this isn't to say the brothers don't change, they do, but at the same time the characters face the exact same (internal) arguments over and over again, never resolving or growing from them; they just have more examples when they think about them and it gets worse and more unhealthy because of the new weight added to it. the problem with their brothers only format, and the problem with their biphobia but more on that later, is that Dean wasn't actually allowed to grow out of his John Winchester's son role, to let himself be comfortable (and dare to be happy) with himself because that meant changing the story into something they didn't like and/or didn't know how to do. at the same time, allowing Sam to grow meant breaking the Brothers Only format, because as the show stated multiple times, Sam's happy ending did not involve hunting.

and with that, they sometimes flattened the characters so badly they became caricatures more than anything else. hell there's a whole season where Dean goes evil, and people had a hard time realizing it, which was not because it was a subtle slow descent but because shitty pacing, uneven (and contradictory) episodes, previous actions that weren't written as being evil but were the the exact same thing as when he was evil that were supposed to be "signs", and how they chose to represent that evil meant it was really hard to figure out that was what they were doing and not just writing Dean as more of an asshole than they previously were. (he's not evil, he's just a prick.) and I don't mean I had trouble telling, I mean fandom as a whole had major arguments about it, much less the general viewing public.

the series finale put a definite end to the idea they would follow through on even one of their main series themes (family don't end in blood, free will vs destiny, always keep fighting, etc), but this was something they would build up to addressing and then just anti-climatically let fizzle out in multiple seasons. character and relationship themes (not just destiel but the brothers co/counter-dependency, the importance of found family, Dean's growth from Daddy's Blunt Little Instrument and Sam's acceptance that he deserves better/agency in his own life, etc) would be built and broken down in an effort to drag the question out into another season. it wasn't two steps forward, one step back, it was a reboot.

their filler vs arc episode ratios: there's nothing wrong with the Monster of the Week format as a stylistic choice, but this show

a) would kill its own plot momentum to focus on MotW episodes. [part of this is the general spn problem they created of constantly trying to one-up their season's Big Bad, which I understand but also means one episode they are going against The Most Powerful Being in Existence (for the Fifth Time) and then rather than focus on that world-ending threat, they hunt vampires for like six episodes straight. they had a very bad balance where rather than continuously weave the larger arc into the season, or at least build characters and relationships, they'd jam it all around the season premiere, finale, and mid-season finale/premiere episodes, and then all the rest was just, bullshit cases where nothing got resolved or had a lesson stick around for the next episode, making them very skippable. also more on this under the homophobia section]

b) the filler episodes contradicted themselves and the main plot all the time.

c) sometimes they focused so much on making the b-plot a mirror they forgot to write a coherent a-plot. also: sometimes they focused so much on making the b-plot a mirror they forgot to write a coherent b-plot.

I cringed my way through more than one episode of dialogue

the recycled plots

more on this in the next sections, but either they didn't notice, actively didn't care, or purposefully chose to overtly and subtly imply or state a bunch of really fucked up things, and then never address them at all

speaking of never addressing anything, I realize this is a fandom vs canon battle in general, but so many things get swept under the rug as they move on to the next issue (ex: Dean put an angel in Sam's body to "heal him", violating his consent and exasperating his issue with telling what reality is - a huge issue from previous season - and once the Mark of Cain story really took over the subject gets dropped.)

death is so cheap on this show. and I don't just mean that the revolving doorway of resurrections means it's hard to get worked up about a death because (as long as the character was a white man and especially the brothers) there was a high chance they'd be back, and I don't just mean that their Murder Is the First, Last, and Best Solution to Any Issue, Ever means the faceless and not so faceless hoards of villains, monsters, and humans who get caught up in it are just hand waved as one of those things (they have ways of saving vessels and the later into the show the less likely they are to even try), but that there was no point in investing in (esp non-white, male) secondary characters because chances were they'd be dead pretty fast. I'm honestly shocked characters like Jody (who actually at one point was in the middle of being killed off on-screen and then we didn't see her for eight episodes, so we assumed she was dead) made it until the end.

(speaking of dead characters though, what was with the habit of bringing them back constantly? just don't kill them in the first place! create new ones and let those ones stick around instead!)

when they can't use death as their solution, the other answer the writers fall back on is Deus Ex Machina

buckleming were a writing duo who had their own bingo cards that included things like shitty pacing, OOC-ness, flat one-liners, etc, and the question wasn't if you'd get bingo, it was a question of how often you got it during their episodes. at some point throughout the show, it became hard to tell what was a buckleming episode and what was just another episode in the season. aka the writing quality went WAY DOWN as a whole

you know the tv trope Idiot Ball? or Idiot Plot? spn should have it's own page for both.

they constantly break viewer's trust, which is the basic tenet of what not to do when it comes to telling a story. (again, not just destiel, though the queerbaiting is a major part of it because it happened all the time to avoid actually answering that question.) when a writer violates their character's or story's core identity for a 'twist', it needs to have been carefully built so that it's a surprise to the viewer, not a betrayal. (you may not have seen it coming, but when you look back you can see the groundwork.) these writers, every time, chose the "shocking" choice regardless of how much they need to break canon or character to do so. their twists are either obvious, and/or they don't make sense with the rest of their story/lore of the show, and the viewer is left feeling stupid for believing they have more respect for the audience/characters than they do.

I realize this is pretty subjective, but huge swaths of it are just boring. fandom made the experience of watching it interesting, not the show itself.

and yet, for all of that, the quality of writing (while painful to have to sit through) was not the worst thing about it.

(note for the following: I stopped watching after s11, but I'm sure some if not all of these are still relevant until the very end)

Misogyny and Consent Issues: Is There a Limit? Signs Point to No

there is honestly so much under this topic I don't even know where to start. i'm going to focus on patterns rather than specific incidences, because otherwise I'll be writing this for a week, but just know I can easily provide examples of all of these because this is literally what I spent years writing meta on.

female characters were more likely to die quicker/earlier (esp vs other other male characters with similar reoccurring roles/characterizations), stay dead, and die often at the hands of their loved ones and/or in Stranger Danger situations. they died for man!pain. they died for fodder. they died as a sacrifice. they were turned into love interests (whether that was their original role or not) and then killed. they were put in mortal danger and then not given resolution for several episodes (Schrödinger's death.) they died in ways we've seen male characters survive. their deaths - the violence enacted on them - was constantly, consistently sexualized, and the camera lingered.

when it came to villains the show would go out of its way to kill the female one first, or act like she's the more pressing issue so that the male character could hang around longer (and honestly by male character I often mean specifically Crowley and the season's female villain. not only that but they'd often break canon to kill off a female character, and break canon to save Crowley/a male character)

when you compare the treatment of reoccurring female characters vs male characters who occupied either similar roles or characterizations, female characters were often punished and/or treated poorly for the same attitude and/or actions of their compared male character, who often got not just a (free) pass, but more screen time, dialogue, and development

they have more than once used the story line of underage girl seducing a grown man. (it was a whole season arc even.) this is esp galling when you find out about crew member Jim Michaels, who sexually harassed and assaulted (minor) fans

(btw, not the only crew/cast member to do so! and still be invited to cons!)

Dean Winchester (who is narratively treated as the moral judgement for the show) has blamed more than one rape victim for their assault/trauma. they often get abused (or outright killed) for stopping their abuser.

Dean is ok with flirting with/leering at barely legal teenage girls. already sketchy when he's 26, really gross when he's in his mid/late thirties

speaking of Dean. based on past personal experience I'm going to say up front people do not like me saying this, but that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong or even based on interpretations: Dean has more than one relationship that if it isn't rape, falls under extreme dubious consent.

there's actually a lot of rape (or "extreme dubious consent") and assault/molestation, both shown and mentioned: Cas and April, the cases were men take away free will and then have sex with the women (Ben Edlund was one of the better writers of series and even he did this a couple of times), Crowley orgy (and demon sex in general), random women in some episodes, Sam and meta!Gen, Becky and Sam, Sam and Lucifer, Dean and Alastair, several monsters (like the siren) and their victims, male characters secretly watching female characters undress/be naked, and so on. Dean was often attacked sexually by men, Sam by women. most of this is never addressed, never treated like what it is, and/or is made into a joke

and there's even more rape jokes beyond that, sub-sections: prison, vessels/demons, angel possession, sex work, childhood abuse, monster of the week, sexuality, etc. huge chunks if not whole episodes were devoted to making what amounted to a rape joke.

often ignored non-sexual consent (esp Dean’s actions, including a lot of mind-wiping and violations of body autonomy)

everything about Sam and body autonomy - he is frequently violated (multiple characters have possessed him; he is fed demon blood); how he feels unclean, how he feels disconnected from his own body, how he often is forced to act outside of his control and then blamed for those decisions

actually, Cas goes through that a lot too; he is trained, brainwashed, and forced to do things without his consent, and goes through major depressive episodes because of it

this show has a pattern of girls who are kidnapped, (sexually abused), raised in isolation, and expected to develop some perfect moral compass of acceptable behavior and were then killed off when they didn't. meanwhile, male characters get fourth, fifth chances.

female characters (and I'm talking about ones with speaking roles, who play an actual part in the plot, who are sometimes in multiple episodes) are more likely to be unnamed or given no last name

are you a Mother on spn (as in, that's your role)? you're either fridged for man!pain or abusive or both

it rarely could pass the bechdel test (including in s9 don't believe those fandom lies), and that's including episodes that focused on female characters. if the test included that the characters have to be named, that (small) number probably gets cut in half. if that test included both women are alive at the end...

female monsters prove they deserve to live by killing off their family to prove they're the "good kind" (this is not necessary for male monster characters)

female characters are not allowed to get vengeance

they took the Virgin vs Whore dynamic (and that that's all women are), and devoted a whole episode to it, but in general it underlines of ton of interactions, esp with regards to Dean and women. {I actually never got around to writing it, but women tended to fall into four main classifications on this show, though overlap definitely allowed: Victim [sub-categories: Fodder, (Dean) Mirror, Mother], Love Interest, Sex Object, and Villain/Obstacle. very few female characters were either allowed to outgrow their category or didn't start in one.}

we see the male characters assault female characters but it's okay because [insert supernatural reason here], ignoring that whatever explanations for why it's being allowed, we are still visually being shown this violence against women, and often from our "heroes" (the women are then tossed away from the narrative after the violence and again, their aftermath gets regulated to off-screen who cares)

female characters were only allowed to be "so badass"; female hunters often fought female monsters or they lost/got regulated to the sidelines in battles. this gets even more contrasted as a male character/hunter will often do a nod about how "badass" she is, even as she is very easily beaten.

the whorepobia of this show

had a tendency to strip female characters down to their underwear/make them nude before torturing them, and then adding sexualized torture on top of that

outside of actor injuries affecting this (like one of them broke his arm so he had a sling for a few episodes), female characters are often more likely to visually carry the bruises/violence of violent incidences much longer than male characters

gratuitous filming shots of breasts, asses

the use of the words: bitch, skank, whore, slut; the play on words they do so they can say "pussy"

taking female myths/figures and reducing them to a cheap, sexist storyline (Amazons, Artemis, Lilith, Eve, witches - who are only allowed to live/be "good" if they're men, and are otherwise in league with demons/are evil and lose)

they often kept a character but switched out her actress; helps with the disposable feeling

how they treat women's ages (ex: Jody is not allowed to be a love interest to Sam because she's older than him/calling Dean 'kiddo'. ex: Rowena is played by a woman fifteen years younger than Crowley's actor. ex: Amara being one of the oldest things in existence but still having to age her way up.)

their treatment of teenage girls, ranging from how they sexualized them to expecting them to save themselves to treating them like they are grown adults and not children to the way they kept killing the ones who posted selfies to the fact the pr more than once used the tag "teenage girls - the scariest thing ever" for Claire's episodes

actions and lasting legacies by female characters often got erased or passed on to male characters instead

it's a time honored tradition to treat certain monsters as metaphors for things. specifically for spn, they often use werewolves and vampires for sexual assault. (not the first to do so, not the last to do so.) however, that part of it gets textually glossed over, or treated as a joke, more often than not

and for all the patterns I talk about above, there's plenty of other one-off examples of misogyny/sexism or consent issues/rape culture this show did. like that time a grown man sniffed the bra of a dead teenage girl. not for any reason, just because it was there and that's what dudes do, apparently.

Racism: All the Flavors(+ Bonus Sexism)

when you compare the treatment of reoccurring white characters vs characters of color who occupied either similar roles or characterizations, characters of color were often punished and/or treated poorly for the same attitude and/or actions of their compared white character, who often got not just a (free) pass, but more screen time, dialogue, and development.

usually Black men but in general men of color:

a) got humiliated (often using feminization or infantilization) before their death

b) had a more violent death; had a death that visually echoed racism (lynching, shot in the back, etc)

c) often used (racialized) rhetoric that in the real world is used against them

d) often filmed in ways to highlight their physicality, to portray them animalistically, to dehumanize them

e) even when victims, will add context to make them partially responsible for their death

characters of color were the villains or antagonists, very rarely "good guys"

this was a very white show, and while I'm speaking about speaking roles, reoccurring characters, and characters who get their own arcs, I'm also talking about background characters

using lore from groups they should not have and/or turned creatures into racist caricatures

having white actors play characters they shouldn't have

heavily depended on stereotypes for their characters of color

the treatment (esp narrative empathy level) of white angels vs angels of color. again, screen time and character development differences between the two

a summary of (East) Asian woman on this show: fetishized porn/sexualized, “tiger mom”, Yoko Ono/The Girlfriend, monster. they were often silent or had no dialogue. microaggressions (usually spoken by Dean) were leveled at them.

antisemitism (styne issue, erasure of the Judah Initiative, Lilith, the golem)

like the sexism, just had random racist lines or visuals throughout the show (and sometimes those came in the absence of who should be there); some groups literally did not have enough characters to make a pattern, which is why this section looks a lot shorter than it really is

like for ex, I'm trying to stick with patterns but seriously, they put a Black woman in a dog collar and said her white boyfriend was her master/that she belonged to him

the ignorance of how white privilege worked to make them palatable

the replacement and/or elevation of a white character over a character of color (Lisa over Cassie, Bobby over Missouri, Charlie over Kevin in terms of how they were treated under Found Family, etc)

how they treated non-Christian Gods: easily killed, evil, weak. they often repackaged them into a Christian framework and made them lesser than.

Bi/Homophobia, Queerbaiting, and Using Fans

they butchered Charlie. they killed her, they killed her in a way that involved leaving behind plot, characters, and logic to do so, they killed her and used the violence of it for "shock," they butchered her and stuck her in a bathtub. the guy who wrote Charlie in every other episode (Robbie Thompson, one of the better writers of the show) didn't write her last episode (assumption: because he wouldn't) and then he arguably left the show over her death. at one of the cons (comic-con?) the cast literally turned their backs when a fan questioned Carver (the showrunner) about what he did because they wanted no part of it. there was a mass exodus of fandom after they killed her (and another portion actually hung around because they got destiel queerbaited to stick out the rest of the season, and then they left.) she was un-apologetically queer, she was found family, she was widely popular, and they killed her for no reason at all. they didn't just Bury The Gay (their only reoccurring one), they salted and burnt the ground

they spent over a decade queerbaiting Destiel. they built queerbaiting destiel into the structure of the show: season opening/first couple of episodes whetted the appetite, which they then backed away from (usually removing Cas from Dean's physical area) and around this time they'd usually have some kind of heterosexual love interest, then mid-season they'd have some room to be together and share feelings, Cas would again disappear but this time they'd have some bi!Dean thrown in to keep you going, a few episodes before the end they'd have a major connection moment (I need you, I love you), and then the season would end with something to keep destiel fans occupied with during summer. it was never a trajectory, it was a cycle; just enough for plausible deniability but more than enough for fans to believe in. they had whole seasons where the b-plot were mirrors for destiel. they tried to sell DVDs by promising destiel cut scenes. they'd remove Cas from huge chunks of episodes just because they didn't want destiel interacting in the same physical space. they filmed them (I'm talking camera angles, physical positioning, etc) romantically. (and sometimes, someone on crew/the network would accidentally reveal how not-fucking-happening destiel would be, and then backtrack when they realized fandom’s uproar.)

a) Dean was only allowed to care so much for Cas, the narrative would only give him so much room to mourn/miss him. (Sam too.) it's beyond my general complaint that the writers/bros lose all interest in a character if they are not right in front of them (if they even cared when they were), but specifically they will spend episodes talking about how Cas is family, how much they care, and then because Dean and Cas cannot share the screen they come up with asinine reasons to remove Cas, which means Dean/the bros do not help him on his issues, and he is cast adrift until they need him, a push/pull of show vs tell with contradictory answers but made a lot of Cas/Destiel fans argue Cas deserved better.

b) they also devoted seasons to the (subtextual) love triangle of Dean/Cas/Crowley. (I wish I was fucking kidding)

c) "you construct intricate rituals which allow you to touch the skin of other men": the way they use violence to supplement affection (which is actually a larger pattern with Dean and his loved ones in general, but specifically the show is willing to show - multiple times - Dean and Cas being violent (often with an arguably sexualized filming to it) in conjunction with or as replacement for expressing their care.) other side of this: hugging/physical affection outside of the shoulder/hand thing is reserved for escaping or coming back from death, if then (and it took seasons and a few deaths to even get that.)

d) "buddy"

that time Dean was allowed to be textually attracted to his mother and a literal dog (who was visually made to be very clearly a girl dog), but his attraction to men always stays subtextual and/or treated as a joke

they spent the whole show queerbaiting bi!Dean. aside comments, checking out other guys, getting flustered by men he finds attractive, metaphors, mirror characters, the heterosexual overcompensation [which is different from but comes from a similar place of the macho compensation to counteract how he gets sexualized/feminized], everything with Cas and how they play that relationship romantically and with sexual attraction, the character development that led to his relaxation of his macho compensation coinciding with increasing subtextual readings of his bisexuality (and domesticity), the inspiration for his name/character is bi, his relationship to Charlie and the pattern of fictive kinship, etc etc.

why are angels straight???? why do they have gender???? (why are they interested in sex???) minus the queerbaiting of destiel, they spent a lot of seasons pushing Cas into a heterosexual box. other angels were often pushed into heterosexual boxes too. (or left in subtext and then killed.) closest we got to playing with gender was Raphael and maybe Hannah, and at least with Raphael it was not without its issues. (also: both dead.)

random transphobic lines

homosexuality was often treated like a joke/punchline. queer characters/scenes were often treated like a joke/punchline.

outside of Charlie, queer characters were small, two-bit roles, extremely rare, and often killed

how they treated and showcased fandom space and esp queer fans in-show (much less how they treated them in real life), comes from a deeply sexist and homophobic place

The Show Was 328 Episodes Long And the thing is, these are the four big categories, but it's not like this is it. The show flip-flops on calling John an abusive parent/that the bros are childhood abuse survivors. The show doesn't even really call out when Dean is being abusive to Sam, and the way they always, always go back to the Brothers Only format means they are often ignoring or straight-up forgetting the unhealthy aspects of their relationship. The show ignores how their trauma builds (and all the things that happen because of it), disconnecting the current issues with the ones that came before. The way they flip flop on monster morality and never address what the winchester bros do to people who happen to be monsters but aren't evil (or definitely aren't as evil as they are). How violence is always the answer. How the "saving people'' part of hunting got dropped the later the show goes on, and red shirt vessels/hosts die in droves. Depending on how you view it, the way they treat alcoholism and addiction. The ableism. The line between the narrative's opinion on acceptable violence and not is inconsistent and dependent on how much they like the character doing the violence vs who the violence is being done to. Etc.

(The above lists are definitely missing stuff. I haven't done anything in this fandom in like four years, I've forgotten a lot.) I'm not saying people didn't enjoy this show. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy (parts of) this show. I'm saying whether you are basing it on things like writing craft or things like 'social justice issues', this show is bad. It is of poor quality. I really don't know how to explain the hold it has on people, how a show can be charismatic, how fandom was able to squeeze so much out of so little, but that's probably what's got you attracted into the idea of watching it again. If you're thinking of watching it because you want a coherent, well done story, look elsewhere. The finale was the literal last straw, not the only one.

#spn #fandom stuff #inbox and admin stuff #//#also this focuses on canon #(and ok a little abt the cast/crew)#(though among other things not mentioned is how actors of color and actresses got treated re cons & crew demographics)#however fandom has it's own fucking list and I can come for them at any time too #anyway that was a very nice ask #and if you want actual details about any of these I could provide #but I wanted to stick with patterns because I feel like that says more than the individual things they do #of which there are legion #anyway a summary of what I and many other people have discussed over the years about how much this show sucks #////#i really do get the urge though #one of my mutuals makes s15 destiel sound good #but fool me once shame on you and fool me 50x fuck you spn #//////#this is long (you asked a very wordy person) but tbh I've written longer meta #and oh man back in the day this thing would have been full of links that would have taken you to other metas #///////#eta: fucked up my formatting I had to add a) because bullet points wont indent

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myhiddenfandom · 4 years

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No idea where to submit a fanfic prompt, so I’m just gonna post it here and pray to DianXia that it will be seen and written!

MDZS x TGCF crossover (truer to CQL/Untamed than to other adaptations): what if the final battle in Nightless City was his trial, and he ascends right as he falls off the cliff? If this were novel-verse I guess it would be during the backlash but I think in the drama he has more clarity of mind just before he falls off the cliff.

Maybe cultivators notice the ascension, and start asking themselves how can someone so evil ascend - not quite sure how to reverse their impression of WWX at this point but I would love for some of the more important characters (LXC, JC, maybe NMJ or LQR) to realize they were wrong and had essentially massacred/sentenced innocents to death, and the subsequent angst-filled guilt fest.

Maybe in all the confusion of war, the ascension wasn’t noticed, and with the missing body, they assume WWX died as per canon > the separation years continue as per canon.

Either way, WWX at some point realizes leaving his demonic cultivation notes out in the open was not a good idea, so some Heavenly Officials whom he’s befriended head down to the mortal’s realm to pack them away and hide them, but by that time everything has been ransacked, and the notes are all missing. This sets the Heaven realm on alert for possible evil deeds done with demonic cultivation, idk - maybe they notice when XY and MXY start playing around with it and remove the notes from them before they start getting anywhere with demonic cultivation?

13/16 years later, MXY does not have the expertise to bring back WY but people eager to imitate demonic cultivation build shrines to the Yiling Patriarch and pray to him, so he can hear what’s going on in the world. Also, maybe some people see his shrines and don’t realize it’s the Yiling Patriarch (the demonic cultivators have to disguise his shrine/statue quite thoroughly to make sure they’re not caught), so they start praying to him too, and that’s how he gains another famous name? Either way, this is how he starts noticing something not right when he hears MXY’s prayers, which seems to know some details of his personal life (from the bits he read on his notes/diary?).

So he descends and disguises himself (because in TGCF, they’re not supposed to show themselves to people they know) and canon proceeds from there but with actual WY in disguise and MXY gets to live!

Yi City arc - while XY figured out parts of demonic cultivation on his own, he didn’t have WWX’s notes on the Stygian Tiger Seal and therefore had less power. Up to the author if he still does the whole XXC thing or if he will be less murder-y.

Timeline: This will probably start before TGCF canon, which will happen during the 13/16 years - maybe soon after WY’s ascension as he’s had a pretty bad mind break and needed time in seclusion to help him heal, and so doesn’t know what’s going on with Jun Wu until the Heavenly realm starts falling apart just before TGCF’s final battle? All this of course makes him really busy so that he’s not so tempted to watch over the humans he knows, but of course he still makes time to watch over Lan Zhan and his son when he can (does he realize SiZhui is A Yuan? Or does he only start watching over them later and doesn’t realize it?). Watching JC and JL is too painful, so he just sets up alerts in case they ever get into serious trouble :(

Post-TGCF canon, all his friends including DianXia and HuaCheng can help him through his guilt and trauma, and maybe realize his own feelings towards Lan Zhan.

I have no idea how to write how the others will take the discovery that he’s back - but there will be no punishment meted out for the humans discovering by the time canon happens since the no-meeting-people-you-know law was something strictly enforced by Jun Wu, and with his downfall, the other gods are a lot more lax on it while still rebuilding the heavenly realms.

In a world where none of the righteous cultivators noticed his ascension, I would absolutely love to see their reactions upon realizing WWX has ascended and is now a heavenly official 😂

So many extra bonus points if you can write a good WWX & HC friendship! Maybe even brotherhood, not that WWX would ever acknowledge it as such cos he’s still hurting over JC and JYL. Self blame is very powerful.

Okay I’ve exhausted most of my ideas for this particular crossover. If more come to mind, I will continue!!

#mxtx #mdzs #mdzs fanfiction #fanfiction #fic prompts #fanfic #prompts #crossover #tgcf #mo dao zu shi #tian guan ci fu #heavenly official's blessing #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #the untamed #cql #chen qing ling #mo xiang tong xiu

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meandmyechoes · 4 years

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my, I'm really thinking about Season 2 of The Bad Batch.

Looking the crew and blurb, it'd have to run more episoidic/serial than distinct arcs, as the same showrunners did with Rebels and Resistance who also follow a core cast instead of branching out in TCW anthology style.

It's still a pilot season so we'll get the first four episodes of them running token quests to deepen characterization. The Boba arc can even be repurposed in, if not at least re-introduction of fan-favourite bounty hunters. The middle arc can start the clone angst, bring in deserter clones, bring in Imperial!Cody. The final arc sets up a Jedi-turned Inquisitor, looking to recruit them, because/but if there's one thing we clones know, is how to stop a Jedi. Have them confront their "purpose" as "engineered weapons" - which in the Bad Batch's case, is truer than regs.

(*cough* and a hooded Miralan observes the whole fight *cough*)

I'm pretty convinced "finding new purpose" eventually land them in the Rebellion, however predictable that seems. If they want to keep the Ahsoka novel semi-canon, she can't physically be in the series, well, until season 2. Who better bring in to help set up the Fulcrum intelligence network? Rex is obviously their connection and naturally led the Bad Batch to become one of many Rebel cells. The subplot of Season 2 thus become Rex's quest for Wolffe and Gregor, like Ahsoka's search for Vader Rebels S2.

But before that, I suppose Hondo is a possibility! If I'm really optimistic, Katooni too? Oh imagine them running into Crimson Dawn and that grouchy tomato Sam Witwer gets a cameo again ah. Also I'm not asking, I'm demanding. Show me Barriss. Show me Quinlan. #where's my quinlan-maul duel Barriss for her disillusionment with the Republic and Quin for his "unconventional" treatment of the clones. These philosophies clapping and clashing with the Bad Batch's would've been interesting meta/angst fuel, depending on how (much) the script delivers.

For the Clones, I want to see… everyone, actually. On the wild side, resurrected!Fives. Less but still wild, Dogma. I doubt we'll get Bly… but he is a realistic foil to Cody, and, don't kill me over this, but frankly, a sacrifice-able character? If he's introduced as the enforcer in the middle arc I mentioned above, Cody can be reserved for S1 finale, and Rex's nemesis in S2.

#the clone wars #the bad batch #tcw reviews #marking my words so they come back and bite me next year #i still cringe at putting this in the mai tag but have at it #HAHA THEM VISITING THE CRASH SITE

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sepialunaris · 5 years

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Tbh I've been keeping this epiphany a lot for my tlj - tros rewrite thing thats probly not gonna be finished but no matter how disney wants to make him comparabble to Vader, Kylo Ren's set up has always been more like Palpatine's backstory in Legends. Like the similarity is uncanny (there are still differences but we'll get to that), and if only they had used that to somewhat fit in Palps in Kyle's arc of being TROS' big bad, it would've made sense.

Enter Sheev

In the Darth Plagueis novel, Palpatine was a child from a noble Naboo family. His family had great power and influence in the senate, especially his father Cosinga. He hated Cosinga because he has conflicting political views with him and has an overall abusive relationship with him (this one is not like Kyle, as he has a caring and healthy family). And iirc from a young age he also has a fascination of the Sith but with little knowledge about them.

And then he meets Hego Damask, a powerful Muun banker, Plagueis' own persona. And then Sheev forms a close mentor-student friendship with him and together they sabotage Cosinga's political faction, while Plagueis observes if Palpatine is worthy to be his apprentice. This includes an instance that he tests Sheev and asks him on how much power he desires to have. Of course typical Sheev answers everything. And then Plagueis reveals himself as a Sith Lord and offers Palps to be his apprentice, promising power to him. But he has to pass a trial to become a true Sith.

And then after knowing Hego's influence in eroding his political faction (without knowing the Sith stuff), Consinga warns Sheev and stops him from communicating with Hego. Consinga also attempts to stop his political career by sending him away. This angers Palpatine and he keeps communicating with Hego, who pushes him to embrace this darkness. And then during a trip at Chandrila with his whole family, he called out his father and they both scream their hatred about each other, to the point Cosinga admitted he should've killed him when he was first born. An enraged Palpatine used the dark side and proceeded to attack and murder his father, followed by the rest of his family. (Also by coincidence, Kyle was born in Chandrila).

Young Sheev felt guilty of this, maybe not to an Anakin degree but this guy is not that sadistic yet. Plagueis was impressed by this and convinces him that he will cover up his murder. In a mission, Plagueis also tried to absolve him of the guilt by telling him to repeat the story of his murder over and over in a cold planet. Once he deems him as a fully fledged malicious being, sucked from all empathy, he christens him as Darth Sidious.

And the rest is history, he fucks over his master, continued the grand plan himself, commiting monstrous acts in his own behalf, and then gets fucked over a few decades later.

Enter kyle

Kyle came from a loving family and people who cares for him. Leia, Han, Luke. Snoke was interested with him and influenced him to embrace his dark impulses. Only unlike Palps, his ambition is not due to an abusive relationship with his parent figures, it was him always thinking that he has locked potential that Luke refuses to allow him to access. But in the end both Sheev and Kyle wanted the same thing, power. And Kyle chose to indulge on Snoke's suggestions and his mind kept thinking that people hated him because he was "too powerful." It was his choice and Snoke didn't force him and his family tried to stop it (Han and Leia knew of Snoke so she probably knew from Kyle and then told Luke and they are not the type of people to sit idly by when this happens).

OOC TLJ Luke considered killing him after sensing this darkness and just one misunderstanding this made him murder the whole Jedi Temple and become a fascist, as if he already had that in mind from before, just like Palps already hating his father. If he had only lashed out on Luke but not the others, he may have a point, but he lashed it out on innocents, and proceeded to do this the next few years for his fascist power conquest. The comic retconned this and made Kyle not kill the jedi, a random lightning bolt did. And I think its just disney trying to make his redemption makes sense and uhh it doesn't work (I refuse to accept it as canon). The things I think the comic itself nailed about Kyle's characterization tho is that even when he didn't kill the jedi, Kyle thought Luke was scared of his power and tried to kill him and Kyle ran off to Snoke instead of his family for help. This is exactly like Palpatine and Plagueis.

And off he goes. He also murdered his father as some sort of trial by Snoke, even if his father is a decent person unlike Cosinga. He killed his master and continued to become genocidal and egomaniac under his own behalf. He has become somewhat like Palpatine, not like Anakin that killed and done his terrible irredeemable atrocities for love. They both did it for power. And for Palpatine he had to support system to stop his descent, yet Kyle had it and refused it.

They could've had a scene where Palps recalls the story of Plagueis (meme bonus) with a truer version, telling kyle that they are more similar to each other than he thinks he is with Vader, and make him an Aaravos type character that doesn't command Kylo but advices his decisions and makes him powerful by giving him knowledge. An untrustworthy advisor that isn't framed as the main villain (i.e: focusing more on kyle's actions that Palps) while Kyle still independently does heinous things in his own conscience and he himself plans to undermine Palps when he has no more use of him (of course Palps also has a plan to trick him and Kyle is not stupid enough to not know it, so its a matter of who disposes who first)

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badsithnocookie · 5 years

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i was curious about your opinion of writing characters like,,, with a different character arc? like, a sort of canon divergence where certain characters end up developing different opinions than they do in canon? like, just an example: someone writing quinn realizing the severe downfalls of the empire (you know, mass propaganda, fascism, slavery, etc.) and moving away from that? or lana being more rigid in their opinions than just following an ls!outlander without question?

i am 100% supportive of writing characters with growth arcs (both towards and away from the ideals of the player and or player character) and of writing them with different outcomes than we have in canon - to use the example of lana you mentioned, she and outlander!eirn butt heads much more in my writing than they do ingame, because eirn is an ls/disillusioned sith who wants nothing further to do with the empire, and lana is... well, lana.

personally, i try to write characters as true to themselves, or at least, my conception and understanding of them, which means inevitably my depiction will be different to canon because bioware a. have limited resources with which to do their exposition (see also: much of my frustration with lana being an exposition bot at the cost of her characterisation) and b. caters expressly to a player power fantasy (chuck has said as much on livestreams), so major npcs are unlikely to complain much about their actions (and those that do are frequently murderable, as of kotfetet - see: senya, koth, indo, atrius, etc...)

(similarly, i tend to hc and write lana as being more manipulative and controlling than a lot of fandom write/hc her as, which has caught me flak from lana fans in the past but to me,feels truer to her personality, especially as it is shown in sor, than the characterisation she gets in some parts of being completely benevolent and selfless)

this isn’t to say i feel that characters should be static or stagnant - sometimes people don’t change, this much is true, and going through a period of trial and doubling down on one’s previous beliefs is both an incredibly human trait and a completely valid character arc. but even that is a growth of a kind, because the character in question has had their beliefs or stances challenged and come away with more conviction in them.

but i am also okay with and (try to write) character growth and change from npcs even in directions that are canon divergent, but... within that framework of ‘doesn’t fundamentally contradict or betray the characterisation’. i will admit that it is something i struggle with, in part because longfic and i are hated nemeses and in part just because i focus far more on my ocs. at the very least, i try to work out where a character would (imo) reasonably have come to, given the events and circumstances that they have been through and the people they have been around.

so for a concise example: under the right circumstances, i could buy quinn having an arc where he comes to the conclusion that there are things about the empire that need changing. however, there is not a circumstance on this green earth where i could buy quinn not just leaving the empire but fighting against it for the republic.

similarly, i could buy an arc where (for example) kira carsen comes to the conclusion that the jedi are not For Her and she leaves to find her own path. however, given her personality and her history, i don’t see any reasonable path to her rejoining the empire and or the sith, never mind fighting against the republic and or jedi.

so like. ultimately, i don’t have a problem with canon divergence when it comes to people writing npcs, not least because.. i do it myself [shrug emoji]

my only sticking point is when people paste ‘improved’ or noncanon traits onto characters - quinn is a great example - without actually showing them developing those traits or behaviours, and defending this as ‘character growth’. if you don’t show the character growing (or having grown), it’s not growth, it’s a whitewash. there’s quinn fic all over the place which has him being Best Pals with vette or mysteriously anti-slavery (in all its forms, not just his ‘these people have no standards’ from rishi) etc without bothering to show how he got from the canon starting point to the divergent fic characterisation, or to show him dealing with more insidious internalised prejudices and beliefs - he just gets dubbed ‘non problematic’ at some point and thereafter is a Good Bean who says and does Nothing Bad.

(and then there are people who just straight up ‘nah i’m just going to remove all his Problematic traits or rewrite his Problematic decisions to be justifiable because i’m an adult and i do what i want’, which... okay, but at that point, he basically turns into an oc with a canon character’s name, so [shrug emoji] all people show when they do that is that they don’t like anything about the actual character or dynamics, just the aesthetics)

(these aren’t problems unique to quinn, ofc, but quinn fandom’s whitewashing of him and his less than stellar attributes is something i’ve butted heads with people over in the past)

but like. fundamentally, people will always write whatever they want, and as a random asshole on the internet, i neither have nor want much control over that. i find people who turn lana into the sort of person who moons over LSV jedi knights or who rewrite pierce into a cuddly supportive big brother to be exasperating but ultimately i can’t stop them from doing so, so [shrug emoji]

...anyway wow this got long sorry D: i rambled

#long post #quinn cw #quinn critical #self meta #theyronshan

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sunken-standard · 5 years

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elementary

Thanks! :D From this ask meme thing.

My favorite Episode: Early on, Iliked the Moriarty reveal. And then later, the one where they hadthe discussion about co-parenting and expectations. I really wish Icould remember some of the cases right now, because I know there weresome that were really clever and topical (like the only one Iremember atm was the coverup for stealing sand that would destabilizethe Brooklyn Bridge).My least Favorite Episode: WhenShinwell died. They done him wrong. Also when Joan’s secret sistercame out of nowhere and they became best friends.Myfavorite Arc: Probably Kitty’s entire character arc. I didn’tlike her at first, but I like how she evolved. Next favorite isJoan’s quest for a baby, because it didn’t feel forced or gross (Ithink Lucy Lui probably approached it from her own life experienceand it was written with that in mind). And I like Sherlock’scharacter growth in relation to both of those arcs. My leasefavorite Arc: The Hannah Gregson thing from last season that’sspilling over into this one. There’s nothing bad or sloppy about it,it just gave me a sad.My favorite ship: Platonic lifemateHolmes/ Watson. They’ve got the healthiest relationship on TV and Ilike it. I mean, I love dark and toxic relationships, but sometimesI want good and morally upstanding too, y'know? I like that theyhave conflicts and they resolve them or, if they don’t resolve them,they make peace with the point of contention and move on, but it’snot like it’s erased from their personal history. My favoritecharacter: Joan. Lucy Lui is just so cooland with-it and that comes through in the character. I reallyliked Fiona, Kitty, and Shinwell too.My favorite season: Idon’t think I’m into the show enough to have an opinion on wholeseasons. Like, the quality is so consistent that I can’t point toone season and say “this one stood out above the rest” or “this one was really lacking.” If I had to pick one, it would be5—I liked the lead-up to him thinking he was losing his mind and Iliked the Shinwell arc.My lease favorite: Probably4, with all the Morland stuff. I love John Noble, but I just wasn’tsuper into Daddy Holmes’ entire arc. Who I wish would havestayed till the end: I kind of wish Fionna was still in thepicture, and also I’d like to see Moriarty again. And I was always alittle salty they didn’t utilize Ms. Hudson more.Who I wishwould have left the show sooner: Nobody, really. Kind of overGregson even before last season, so I wouldn’t have lost any sleep ifthey’d written him off sooner.Who I think is the most cheatedcharacter: Mycroft. He didn’t even get to go out with abang.Who got more screen time than they maybe should: Michael. He was a boring Big Bad.What drew me to it: LucyLui and Johnny Lee Miller. I thought it was going to be garbagebecause most American TV (especially procedurals) is garbage, but Iwas hopeful when I saw the leads. I was really pleasantly surprisedwhen it didn’t suck.What kept me watching: The cases. Thewriting is clever and very in-the-moment; I like their takes onupdating ACD canon. And I love the relationship dynamic—it’s sorefreshing.If I would recommend it: Heckyeah I would. Unpopular opinion, but I think JLM makes a betterSherlock Holmes than BC; he just feels truer to ACD’scharacterization than the BBC version.

#from an ask meme #anonymous

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danyreads · 6 years

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TITLE: War Storm AUTHOR: Victoria Aveyard RELEASE DATE: May 15th, 2018 READ DATE: May 30th, 2018 PUBLISHING HOUSE: HarperTeen RATING: ★★☆☆☆

[SHARP INHALE] I’M FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE i never have to think about this series again. i know that sounds harsh but these books have brought me so much unnecessary anger and frustration that it’s truly a relief to finally FINALLY be done with the series once and for all. i can finally put these books down and be DONE with the characters and the story and v*ctoria av*yard’s nasty ass personality i actually didn’t completely hate this book (which was a very pleasant surprise!! i’m not gonna lie!!) but it was still uselessly long and very poorly plotted out and the final battle + the end was so UNDERWHELMING i genuinely wanted to claw my eyes out. like!!!!!!! @v*ctoria DID I REALLY JUST GO THROUGH 650 PAGES FOR THAT?????????????? i’m not gonna go into much detail about that since it’s very clearly a spoiler. however i WILL MOST DEFINITELY TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE THAT I DIDN’T LIKE ● unrestrained pining: mare and cal spend the first 40% of the book going off about how they CAN’T be with each other despite the fact that they’re ~~ so in love ~~ because???/?????? because cal????????? is gonna be king of norta??????? BITCH THOSE ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE TO EACH OTHER THEY DON’T MATCH UP AT ALL!!!!! like being honest for a second cal and mare don’t need to be married to be together???? they don’t even have to make it public????? EVEN IF CAL MARRIES SOMEONE ELSE (EVANGELINE), MARE CAN STILL BE HIS LOVER?????? JUST AS ELANE IS EVANGELINE’S LOVER DESPITE THE FACT THAT SHE’S GONNA MARRY CAL?????????????? the worst part about this is that evangeline, in canon, in text, brings up this idea and she’s like “hey like u can be lovers lmao i don’t care i’m a lesbian i’m gonna hang out over here with my lesbian lover” and mare is like “I CAN’T BE WITH CAL HE CHOSE THE CROWN OVER ME :(” god i’m so fucking angry i don't even like mare and cal together but this was just so beyond STUPID ● strategizing/war stuff: this book was trying way too hard to be the hunger games with all the surprise attacks and battles between the countries ON THAT NOTE when the FUCK did so many countries show up in this universe????? and why doesn’t the book have a map????? v*ctoria i’m a tired college student and i can’t keep up with all these useless countries. anyway the battle scenes didn’t make sense at all, and i feel like v*ctoria had all these sequences perfectly played out in her head but when it came down to writing them she kinda got a little excited and forgot to put some stuff in because spatially i could not for the life of me make sense of what was going on ● iris + the lakelands: USELESSSSSSSSSSSS. DIDN’T DO ANYTHING. WASN’T EVEN ON THE EPILOGUE BECAUSE V*CTORIA HERSELF DIDN’T CARE. NEXT. ● cal and maven: “I swear, these Calore brothers are trying to out-idiot each other.” this is an actual quote from the actual book and truer words have never been spoken, god bless. even though i love maven with every piece of my heart, he did some dumb shit in this book. cal also did some dumb shit. mostly cal did dumb shit. this boy can’t be king even if his life depended on it??? he’s awful at politics???? and no offense but maven in particular felt really out of character to me in the scenes where politics were involved because he just??? sucked??? when he was otherwise brilliant in the previous books???? why did u do my boy like that v*ctoria. why. i’m also extremely mad that we didn’t get the redemption arc we deserved because no OFFENSE but maven had the potential to become a new warner from shatter me and yet here we are :( ● zero character development: THIS BOOK WAS ALMOST 700 PAGES LONG V*CTORIA WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY anyway i had zero hopes for this book and was still somehow disappointed even though i did like some parts of it lmao bye bitch you best believe i’m never reading anything by v*ctoria av*yard ever again!!!!!!!!!!!

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#war storm #victoria aveyard #red queen #booklr #reviews #book review #goodreads #2 stars #fantasy #dystopia

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morkaischosen · 7 years

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Sage and Joan Gardener

Some More CMWGE Characters

The original idea here came from Wounded Angel, and the idea of doing mirror-image versions of the same character, where each was the other’s sealed-away Blasphemy monster form. Then I decided the version that’s slightly truer to the Nobilis half of the inspiration was better. I’m pretty sure wanting to use Prophet wasn’t even the main reason for that!

(Sage is, as you will likely notice, using standard-issue Fallen Angel arcs, while Joan is on the canonical Angel arcset, yes shut up Prophet is definitely an Angel arc and you can’t convince me otherwise.)

Sage Gardener, the Friend to All Weeds, is a foundling of mysterious parentage. He was raised by the Kichi family, whose sacred pools long ago prophesied his arrival; sealed away within him, the prophecy says, is an apocalypse of fire and brimstone that will bring ruin and destruction to the world. The only way to avert this doom is for him to live a peaceful, compassionate life; if he gives in to anger, the terrible forces he contains will escape into the world.

If anyone can raise him and keep him safe from that fate, it’s Fortitude’s shrine families - but adolescence will test even their tranquility.

Sage is a small, slight boy with a shaved head and a smile that ranges from calm to cheeky, depending on his mood - he almost never frowns. He has a kind word for absolutely everyone he meets; in Fortitude that’s not particularly surprising, but he shows the same polite respect to rampaging abominations of science, monsters, and even door-to-door salespeople.

The grass stains on his knees and the scratches on his hands somehow entirely fail to make him look messy - they seem as much a part of him as his clothes and skin.

Sage is one of those people who can have a conversation about anything someone finds interesting, but his personal passion is botany. He tends a small wildflower meadow not far from the Kichi shrine, full of plants most of his neighbours think of as weeds - Sage maintains that everyone else not wanting them in their gardens just means it’s even more important to make space for them here, and sometimes even transplants weeds to make sure they have somewhere to grow. He’s so used to the thorns, thistles and stings that he sometimes forgets to warn people, which can be a problem when he invites people to sit with him in the garden - it’s not that they don’t hurt him, it’s just part of life.

His unshakeable calm is starting to shake as puberty makes itself known, though. He’s starting to find his mood swinging more than he’s used to, particularly when people are judgemental towards those they don’t understand - he can’t stand that kind of behaviour, but it’s so much easier to be angry about it than anything else. He’s managed to keep it under control for now - despite a few forlorn patches of fresh ash in his garden - but he’s scared of what could happen if he’s not as good at that as his (consistently supportive) foster-parents and teachers think, and too worried about upsetting them to bring it up.

Sage Gardener, the Friend to All Weeds

Superior Holiness 2 (but Sage’s Holiness is entirely unsuited to scourging anything - he can heal people, inspire them, and calm wild animals with a word, but ghosts and monsters can tolerate his presence just fine.) Kindness 2 Meditation 1 Botany 3

If Joan also exists, Sage should have a Connection 1 to her, even if they’ve never met.

Wounded Angel 2:

Dramatic: Sage tends to turn up when people really need someone to talk to - as often for “ohmygod I just read this book and it’s AMAZING” as anything else.

Devices: herbal infusions and incenses with mystical properties, efficaciously channeling his Holiness.

Blasphemy: when Sage loses his last Divine Health Level, he flowers into a terrible mandala of fire, wings, and lidless eyes that scourges away all spiritually impure things - and most things are spiritually impure.

Empowered Wounds: handles everything from holy powers of peace and love through the corrupt powers of a malevolent spirit possessing him (because malevolent possessing spirits deserve somewhere to live!) to manifestations of the terrible doom of scourging flame he could become.

Creature of the Light 1:

Tireless: Sage has access to Miraculous Will while showing compassion and acceptance to the things others reject.

Well-Lit: Sage is a blessed and holy being, and the world shows him to the best of its ability.

The Auctoritas Magister

Appear: Plants often turn out to have been Sage (or have had a Sage sleeping underneath them) when he needs to be where they are.

Transfix: Sage’s calm motions hold people’s attention, bringing peace to the world.

Possible starting Empowered Wounds include nettle stings that mark him as a friend to weeds, allowing him to manipulate plant life and giving an Affliction of “My skin stings like a nettle,” as well as barely-controlled mood swings allowing him to summon fire, with some appropriate Affliction.

Perks: Affliction: “When I give in to anger, things burn.” (Tied to Wounded Angel - currently 2)

“It’s like a home to me” - Sage’s wildflower meadow gives a +1 Tool bonus to feeling at peace.

XP Emotion: Believing In You XP or D’awww XP are the two I’d be likely to hit.

Joan Gardener, the Foe to All Weeds, is a foundling orphan. Her adoptive family are a quiet Fortitude couple who’d already been looking to adopt when she was found, a baby, on their doorstep with a cryptic note explaining that young Joan Gardener needed a home. As she grew older, it started to become clear that she might not be an entirely normal child - nothing that would be that obvious on its own, but the coincidences are piling up.

Joan is a stocky girl with shoulder-length mousy hair, often tied up in a slightly messy ponytail. She spends a lot of time frowning, either in concentration or because someone’s said something she disagrees with - she’s a wilful sort, and her teachers very rapidly learned that it’s difficult to satisfy her with a partial explanation. She’s willing to back down if you can actually convince her she was wrong, but doing that isn’t easy.

She’s fond of most forms of art - a beautiful painting or a well-performed song always replaces her trademark frown of concentration with a surprisingly sweet smile - but she decided at an early age that her true love is gardening. As always, she committed, and every day when her lessons are done, she armours herself in her apron and her gloves, belts on her secateurs and the weed-killing blowtorch nobody will admit to having let a child get hold of, and sets forth to earn some pocket money. Her campaign against weeds is legendary - she fights them with zealous efficiency, often insisting on staying out late if the root system is more extensive than expected.

She’s often frustrated by grown-ups not believing her, especially when she can’t explain why she needs to do something; as puberty starts to make itself known, her parents are finding themselves at odds with her more often. She’s a good kid and she doesn’t like being disobedient, but more and more often, the alternative seems just as bad. It’s frustrating and confusing for everyone, but as ever the idea of backing down is far from her thoughts.

Joan Gardener, the Foe to All Weeds

Superior Holiness 2 (but Joan’s holiness is harsh-edged - she can inspire people, cure infections or drive back a ghost with a word, but when it comes to encouraging growth she’s better off using good compost and the right fertiliser.) Confidence 2 Making an Effort 1 Gardening 3 Flying 0 (she can jump about as effectively as a normal child who jumps a fairly normal amount but has no particular investment in this mode of transportation).

If Sage exists, Joan should have Connection 1 to him, even if they’ve never met.

Prophet 2:

Joan is the Prophet of Pruning, the cosmic principle of carefully cutting away imperfect or unwanted things to allow space for beauty to grow. It’s most deeply tied to gardening, but it can also be found in surgery and the like. Her enemies include Sage (whose message of acceptance refuses to allow the destructive side of pruning); other foes might be an industrial interest representing Productivity - where Pruning cuts away some stems of the bush to promote more flowers to grow, Productivity uproots the whole bush so it can build a factory.

Divine Guidance: Joan can allow the cosmic weight of Pruning to guide her towards what needs to be removed. If she sustains this for a whole chapter, some broader-scale beauty is given space to flower into the world.

Materialization of Possibility: Joan can call on Pruning to solve an immediate problem - coincidence and chance conspire to cut through the Gordian knot, or doubts and confusion are removed to make a chaotic mess suddenly simple and clear. Pruning is reductive - it’s well suited to removing obstacles and bringing clarity, but less adept at creating new things.

Inspiration: When performing the work of Pruning, Joan can escape the bonds of gravity to find the best angle to work from, using the Flight of Pruning; and her actions take on divine force, cutting through obstruction and indecision and removing her audience’s doubts when she moves and speaks with the Confidence of Pruning.

Vestments: Joan has a weed-killing blowtorch of flame. Nobody’s quite sure who let a 12-year-old girl get her hands on something that dangerous, but it’s definitely hers and taking it off her seems like a bad idea. The “of flame” seems a bit redundant, but omitting it feels like abbreviating the thing’s proper name. With this mighty weapon, Joan can burn weeds and purify away all manner of malign presences.

Hallow: given a few minutes to work, Joan can prepare a place for Pruning. This enshrines the region property that “Impure and unwanted things can be cut away to give beauty space to grow.”

Illumination: It can be hard to cut away the things that hold you back; when Joan listens to people’s struggles with what it means to give themselves the space to grow, it can be Foreshadowing or Sympathetic Action.

Keeper of Gardens 1:

The World, Like Clay: Joan Gardener is a gardener and Keeper of Gardens, and thus can garden her gardens with her Gardening skill. But, like, more than normal gardeners can.

Toxic: Joan has a Bond 2: “I make everything simple and straightforward.” Her confidence is infectious.

Land-Rule: The rules allow shifting some points into Superior Land-Rule, but I feel like the things of Joan’s gardens likely respond to Confidence and Holiness well enough that it’s not necessary.

The Great Magic: By wounding a Divine Health Level, Joan can shape the way her gardens grow, allowing them to develop into ever more beautiful forms.

Guide: Talking flowerbeds and sentient water features are possible, but - unsurprisingly - Joan’s most common Guides are created as topiary.

Perks: “It’s like a home to me” - Joan’s parents have let her take over the gardening at home, and the results are elegantly beautiful. (Both Prophet and Keeper of Gardens will allow her to claim more gardens in future).

The other perk slot is flexible if you have a good idea; if not, a second Bond: “I must eradicate weeds wherever they may be found!” should lead to Fun.

XP Emotion: Believing In You XP or Fist-Pump XP?

(If you’re running a martial arts version of CMWGE where everything is inexplicably bound up in martial arts tournaments, Sage is a student of baguazhang, true to his Airbender inspiration; Joan insists that European longsword styles are entirely valid martial arts and shows up in full armour.)

#cmwge #sage gardener #joan gardener #awesthetic

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