#because in doing so you reinforce that trans people are Magically Different than cis people and that we're the only people who want to-

[vampire-core]

[id: the first image is a reply by @.demilypyro that reads: That doesnt sound very cis

the second image is a reply by @.homosexualmorelikehomiesexual that reads: respectfully adding to this in agreement with op: i think its true that no, it DOESNT sound very cis, but thats bc according to the very same gender system that sucks so much, anyone who disagrees or complains about it is Other, and i think thats......part of the exact problem op is talking abt..? so yeh idk. speaking as a trans person myself- op youre valid youre right and you should say it i support you go cis boy go

#this is what i call cis+ #youre cis but youve seen the void. the truth. and then you pulled back and went Ok Got It. Keeping My Gender Though #which i think is just as respectable. like amen #consciously opting into your assigned gender when you know you don’t actually have to..... #thats cis plus. cis prime. cis upgraded. you feel? /end]

I’m a cis man sure but i also wanna opt out of the gender binary. None of that shit is my fault or my responsibility and i don’t want any part of it

[idiotsonlyevent]

wow, naoto's writing is bad! and its not even bad because "they should have been trans" or whatever tf ppl are saying, its bad because its inconsistent both internally as well with persona's canon lore. like, the whole basis of the persona series is that your shadow is part your true self. even though it says things that you don't want to hear or admit to others, it's still YOU. naoto's shadow 'wants to be a man.' naoto's shadow wants gcs. naoto's shadow is trans.

and that's not to say that you can't write a story or an arc about questioning gender. or a gnc woman. or about what it's like to be a woman in a male-dominated field. or a child that's forced to grow up too quickly because they're surrounded by - and doing the job of - adults. but to do that, then naoto's social link should have actually explored those things? we hear a lot about how it must be tough to be a woman detective. how the adult police officers don't take naoto seriously. but it's never shown; those issues aren't explored in a meaningful way. we know that they happen in the real world, but we don't get to see naoto react to those things; like the yosuke reacts to the junes part-timers, or the way yukiko reacts to the reporters and kasai-san. so that angle falls flat because those problems aren't acknowledged in naoto's arc.

naoto is openly dysphoric. i'm not saying that makes them trans bc dysphoric cis people exist, but they are repeatedly shown being uncomfortable when other characters bring up their height, the pitch of their voice, and their chest. and you can say that them deciding that they're a woman means that they're not comfortable being seen as a man either - that's fine, nonbinary people exist - but the scale of the discomfort is so completely different that it feels ridiculous and almost in bad faith to say they felt as uncomfortable 'as a man' as they did 'as a woman.'

and honestly, im a little tired of seeing stories where women 'dress up' as men to avoid sexism. i know the people writing these have never actually talked to trans men, but that's not how the world works. we don't come out and suddenly become magically accepted by society. you can be out for years and still be routinely misgendered! and in some cases, if you pass, you're expected to uphold and reinforce sexism - fun! /s. but those stories never show that, do they? i get that they're supposed to be escapist fantasies, and not real life, but persona 4 is a game that has relatively grounded themes and characters. many of us are or know a yosuke, a chie, a yukiko, etc. naoto's writing feels out of place because the themes it's trying to explore are either completely ignored or bastardized so badly that they become nonsensical.

it's also incredibly demeaning and egregious that to romance naoto, you basically force-fem them, when the whole point of their 'platonic' social link is that their gender doesn't matter (until at the very end, where they decide they're 'a woman after all'). this is pretty clearly done to assert the heterosexuality of the protagonist, but it's still really gross. are gnc women w lower voices not allowed to date men now? fellas, is it gay to date a woman?

but actually the most uncomfortable part to me is the rhetoric surrounding naoto's transness. i know this game came out more than a decade ago, but it uses the same negative tropes about transmasculine people that are being peddled by t€rfs and transphoßes today. and it's primarily other women (chie and yukiko) enforcing naoto's gender expression to stamp out any ideas of transmasculinity. naoto can't Actually be trans - she's just a confused little girl! she'll grow out of it and realize how stupid she was to throw away her beauty to be an ugly man! she was a girl all along! its straight out of social contagion nonsense, when their arc could have perfectly meshed w the theme of acceptance if they um. maybe accepted that they can be trans, even without needing to 'change their sex'? they can be a man with a 'woman's body'? they can see themselves however they want? (reminded of that post of a 'western' trans person saying they thought the trans man from one piece was a caricature or something, and the replies were just. japanese trans people saying that the way he's presented is empowering for them bc it's impossible to get hrt/gcs in japan, so they prefer narratives that accept their bodies as they are.)

naoto could have been amazing gnc woman, non-binary, or trans man rep, if atlus stuck to it and explored what any of those things meant to naoto as a character. instead, they fumbled the writing so badly that it becomes impossible to tell what they were trying to say. unless you're trans, then one day, you too can become normal! 

[writing-with-olive]

im writing a book where you can either be a prince princess or witch. princes as male princesses as female and witch is someone who has potential to become evil/some1 who isn’t a damsel. mc is a cis girl + lesbian who wants be a "prince" to save ppl. the whole thing is to be a commentary on gender roles and deconstruction of fairytales i wanna include trans and nb ppl but how can i do that without it being offensive esp in a world like this

Hey anon!

So first thing, I'm going to write what I think you've worldbuilt here to make sure that I'm accurate in my understanding/if I'm not, then to see my suggestions with that context.

Prince: male, not a damsel (based on your character wanting to be a prince)

Princess: female, a damsel

Witch: genderless, has the potential to be evil, not a damsel like a princess

Okay so. Including characters respectfully. My personal opinion is that a trans-inclusive/trans-supportive world is ideal because the ratio of fictional transphobic worlds to trans-inclusive worlds is WAY too high. Also, we live in a largely transphobic world (just take a look at what the United States is doing - it's horrific) and a chance to actually have some escapism, instead of just being reminded that we're not included the same way everyone else is, is kinda nice. 

With this in mind, how you structure your worldbuilding is going to look a few different ways. (Note that these are not the limit, but just some ways I might think about worldbuilding to help give you a starting place)

Option 1: There's a certain period of time before people are seperated out into being princes, princesses, or witches. During their youth, gender is pretty fluid and open. It's only after a certain milestone that characters have to decide what they want to call themselves and then they are slotted into the appropriate social role. This would mean that it is completely natural to have trans princes/princesses/witches. This does open up the plot hole of "well then why didn't MC just say she was male so she could become a prince?" Though I imagine this can be circumvented with an explanation such as "she didn't realize"

Option 2: Just.... don't explain it. There are trans princesses and trans princes and that's just how it is. This has the benifit of not being too complicated and focusing the story on the gender roles themselves rather than the mechanics of how they work. This also opens up a ton of plotholes so.... have fun with that :D

Option 3: Given that there's witches in this, I'm assuming that there's magic, so maybe there's a way that people could tell what gender characters are based on that, as opposed to what they look like physically. This changes out some of the identity that comes with discovering that you don't quite fit into the established gender roles, but it also reinforces that people's gender isn't just what kinda package they were born with, which is a win. 

The one thing to keep in mind is that under no circumstances should you make all the trans characters (or if there's only one trans character) witches. If you have witch trans characters, fine. But you gotta have trans princes/princesses too. 

This leads us to nonbinary people. Basically the concept is that if someone's nonbinary, it means they don't fit into society's gender roles. In this case, the gender roles are pretty strict -- you're either a prince, princess, or a witch. Like with binary trans characters, we have a few options here as well (feel free to mix and match options that I give for nb/trans characters how you want it's your book).

Option 1: If it's set up like a monarchy system almost, you can have nonbinary characters being neither princes or princesses (the witch comment from above applies here as well), but rather other high-ranking positions like advisors or religious leaders or emissaries. Basically, you're not forcing them into lower ranks because they don't fit with the binary system that's been set up

Option 2: There are nonbinary princes/princesses. Basically, they've been slotted into being a prince or princess just like everyone else, but within their role as prince or princess, they're still nonbinary, meaning they might use more gender neutral language to talk about themselves, and they fit into the role as required but in every other respect, they don't. 

So I guess to sum up, my thoughts are to make your world trans-inclusive/trans-supportive as this is both nice to read as someone who is trans, and also adds to the overall commentary on gender roles, and within this, you have options to play with to make your worldbuilding support this.

Happy writing!

[alternativewinxcontinuity]

Something I noticed about powers and inheritance, at least as seen in canon...a boy born to a Fairy or Witch mother and a Hero father is usually a Hero, while a girl is usually a fairy or a witch (like her mother). Meanwhile, a Fairy/Wizard or Witch/Wizard pairing will have their children be either a fairy, a witch, and/or a wizard. There are technically male fairies (in Magical Adventure) but they didn't go into detail about it. Can girls be anything other than a witch or fairy? (Part 1)

Is wizard an option for girls? Conversely, can boys be fairies or witches? How does Wizard culture work in your AU? (Part 2)

I've spoken a few times about the gender thing re:witch|wizard|fairy|hero division, so I'll just quote myself real quick:

Gender is nothing more than a statistical average when it comes to the divide between (Witches and Fairies) and Wizards. Wizards are more likely to be male, Witches and Fairies are more likely to be female, but there’s always a (very) small percentage of female Wizards and male Fairies and Witches.

Despite appearance, the division of Fairies&Witches and Wizards is not a gender based one.

Though female Heroes are more commonly seen, male Fairies&Witches, as well as female Wizards do still occur.

^ This is actually why I try to use gender neutral pronouns when talking about fairies and witches in general terms.

Also because I headcanon a percentage of trans men and women as well as non-binary individuals exist within the various Fairy|Witch|Wizard|Hero classes, in addition to the 'statistically unlikely' cis-gendered individuals mentioned above, because Winx Club in the early days had a feel of gender non-conformity. I will never be convinced Palladium wasn't a gay trans man.

I'm never sure if that aspect of the ratio is something I should bring up, because it's not something I had plans to bring to the foreground, or even really look out outside of that one blink and miss it mention in the Alt Con that Palladium is trans, so it always feels like if I did bring it up, it would come across as cheap lip-service done for 'wokeness' brownie points.

I think the inheritance thing might be a little but about 'following in my parent's footsteps'...

[Warning, major tangent below, I’m not even sure what I’m saying anymore:]

But let's talk canon and get a bit meta for a few minutes:

Within canon there is a 'lens of focus', if you will. Writers may know this as 'third person limited POV', where we the audience are focused on a certain character, or several characters as is the case of Winx Club, and though we get to see more of the goings on of the universe than they do, we're limited to the parts which are relevant to the main characters and their story.

With Winx Club, it's a story about girls who are fairies. In their story, fairies are the top of the food chain of awesomeness, and the narrative is set up to support a “girl power” theme.

Boys are love interests, male love interests in fantasy series are typically knights in shining armour, in the Winx Universe, that translates to Heroes.

The primary villains are often a warped reflection of the main characters, thus, the Trix are young ladies who happen to be powerful witches.

This is the foundation of the Winx Club Universe as we know it, as we are shown it.

Further, because the show is half about the show and half about selling toys, it tends to ingrain certain idea into itself. (This is where (I feel) the 'degradation of quality' in the later seasons comes from, the doubling down of the focus on the 'target audience' and pushing characters further and neater into their divisions and labels.)

The idea that this (gender bias) is normal and perpetuates the whole of their Universe is enforced, but I don't believe it's 100% the case.

It can't be.

Our own world has shown that diversity and exceptions to the rules happen, only a very controlled artificial system would experience otherwise, and only if it doesn't grow.

Our view of the Winx Universe is limited by what the characters see and do and know, so we're forced to make assumptions on what is and isn't a regular occurrence, but we're also limited by censorship.

The Show itself has a “target audience”, regardless of who's actually enjoying it, and there are guidelines in various countries on what is and is not appropriate for various audiences.

The assumed target audience is very young girls, you can see the way the studio really doubled down on that in later seasons, the Winx became more feminine and uniform, the villains became more cartoonish (as in dumber and foolish as often seen in children's Saturday morning cartoons), even the art style of season 8 gives the Winx a younger and more girlish appearance.

All of this goes back into the reinforcement of gender based divisions, this gender means this label.

Boys are heroes, or maybe once in a blue moon a wizard, good girls are fairies and bad girls are witches.

There are exceptions, Diaspro is a 'bad girl' and she's a fairy, they tried to give Icy (a witch and known bad girl) a tragic backstory redemption in season 8, which is concerning for entirely different reasons. (Also I believe Selena, unlike Mirta, remained a witch despite 'being good now'?)

The point is: The show sets up certain alignments, If you are A+B then you must be C.

But That's just what we see at around the edges of the story the Winx Club are experiencing, and we see a lot to enforce that idea, but lack evidence of is not proof of a negative.

If that last part made no sense: “I don't believe in ghosts because there's no real evidence they exist,” despite the lack of evidence other people do believe in ghosts, no matter how much 'null' evidence someone gathers, they can never prove that ghosts absolutely 100% Do Not exist because they are a non-observable phenomenon, there lack of appearance does not prove their lack of existence. Conversely: “I think that hay bale is on fire” can be proven or disproven by the lack of fire, because 'on fire' and 'not on fire' are both observable state which chance the existence of whether or not there is fire.

“There are only female fairies and witches, and only male heroes and wizards”.

No, we've only seen the divisions and ratios in this manner, but what we've observed is a very limited view of the Universe in which the Winx live, and Does Not take into account how limited their view makes even the background of their story that we do see, or the fact that gender or more than whether or not you have certain body parts.

A Very Large portion of that Universe is Unobserved therefore we cannot offer Observed Evidence of any kind.

And Further:

FanFiction

We control the multiverse now.

[cassolotl]

Pronoun tips from binary men and women

Every once in a while I am asked (or see someone asking) how to use pronouns other than he/him and she/her. The person asking is usually a man or a woman unfamiliar with nonbinary stuff generally, but they’ve got a particular nonbinary person in their life whom they care about and they don’t want to mess up. Maybe they keep misgendering their nonbinary friend and they feel guilty, or they want to take the burden off the nonbinary person who keeps having to correct them, something like that.

When binary people lack that confidence with pronouns, they seek the advice of nonbinary people. Not only are we likely to give advice that’s not ideal for binary people (because we’ve got skin in the game, all our friends are nonbinary so we’re used to it, etc.), but it is another facet of that dynamic of the privileged group (in this case binary people) placing their burden onto the marginalised group. Binary people should be asking advice from other binary people who’ve mastered pronouns.

So, I asked, and a bunch of binary people answered. I got advice from trans and cis binary people (men and women), and I’m collecting all the common stuff and the stuff I thought was good, all here for your perusal. If you know a binary person who’s struggling to get pronouns right, pass this along.

[This article assumes that you know a specific nonbinary person and you want to get better at using their pronouns, though the advice can be adapted. It also assumes that you’re familiar with the concepts of singular they and neopronouns, and you accept that they’re grammatically correct.]

Update: Now available as a printable on Google Docs, in case you need to hand it to someone in person!

~

PRACTISE

Something that came up over and over, from cis and trans people, was that just like learning anything language-related, practise is essential. And like anything language-related, it is definitely possible to learn!

“If you can get into a hobby like, say, knitting, and learn how to use 'knit' vs 'purl' vs 'cast' vs 'bind' and so on, you can absolutely learn whichever pronouns are correct for the people you talk to, or about and use them as needed.“ --An anonymous cisgender binary person.

Practise a little bit every day. Language is maintained through regular and habitual use. “Pure repetition leaves these pronouns on the tip on my tongue.” --Anonymous cisgender binary person

Talk about the person and use the correct pronouns. You can talk about them to yourself or to a non-judgemental friend. Do this while they’re not around, so they don’t feel uncomfortable. “It really helped me having a friend [to practise with] who I trusted to not judge me when I got it wrong.“ --An anonymous cisgender binary person.

Think about the person and use their pronouns. “I would narrate what they were doing in my head using their name and chosen pronouns, so like. ‘They sat down and opened their textbook for the class.’” --Mason

Write about someone and use the pronouns you want to learn. Something magical about writing fixes things in our memories. Write about the person whose pronouns you’re trying to learn, or write a story about a fictional person with those pronouns. Compose a selection of phrases that use all five forms of the pronoun, and write them down. Rewrite a passage of a book you’re reading with different pronouns. “Every time you bugger up someone's pronouns, write a paragraph about them in your journal as practice - just, like, nice things about them - and do make it about focusing on them and who they are, not at all about your mistake or punishing yourself for it.“ --Anna K

Listen to/read works by other people using the pronouns. Podcasts, YouTube, fiction and non-fiction books, newspaper articles, queer socials where folks have a lot of nonbinary friends...

“Practice getting it wrong as well as getting it right, so that you can correct yourself smoothly and automatically.” --Anna K

~

TRICK YOURSELF

"Imagine your friend has a tiny buddy on them, like a puppet in their pocket, and you're talking about your singular friend and their buddy, so: ‘them’. Eventually you'll get used to saying they/them/their.” --An anonymous cisgender binary person.

Draw on your prior experience. If you’re queer and you’ve had to do the Pronoun Dance when talking about your partners before, pretend to yourself that you’re deliberately hiding someone’s gender from the person you’re talking to. If you’re used to not knowing friends’ genders because you only know them online, pretend to yourself that you’ve never met your nonbinary friend AFK before. “The most effective way I can get myself in the mental frame to consistently use they/them pronouns for someone who I've previously known as she/her or he/him, is by thinking of it as like I don't wish to disclose this person's gender to the audience (even if the audience is myself, in my thoughts).” --S

Many people commented that tricking yourself often naturally and accidentally leads to...

~

CHANGE HOW YOU THINK ABOUT GENDER

“View the people you're talking about as people, and their gender(s) as valid. This is the most helpful thing.“ --Kaelen

Start using singular they when talking about people whose genders you don’t know. This was recommended by a LOT of binary people. It cements the idea that you can’t know someone’s gender or pronouns unless they’ve told you, and it detaches pronouns from gender presentation and your own assumptions based on appearance.

Research genders that defy the binary. Get comfortable with the subject, understand that what people tell you about themselves is important and personal to them, and accept that any gender that someone earnestly tells you they experience is valid.

Get used to the idea that you don’t know anyone’s gender until they tell you. “If I knew Shirley used they/them pronouns, I might slip and say ‘she is over there’ but if I train myself to believe I am not fully aware of their gender (only they are!) than I can say ‘they are over there’ more confidently and assured.” --Maria

Think of people as masculine and feminine instead of male and female. “Something that I'm sure also helps is seeing certain looks/types not as "male/female" but as fem/masc. There can be a masc female, a fem male, and so on and so forth.” --An anonymous nonbinary trans-masc person.

~

IN THE MEAN TIME

If you’re struggling, use the person’s name in a pinch. It’s better than misgendering them, and it can keep the natural flow of conversation going so that it’s not all about their pronouns.

When you mess up, correct yourself and move on. “I think I'm a lot less likely to make the same mistake again if I catch myself and amend it.“ --helen

Don’t say sorry, say thank you. "If you misgendered someone and are corrected pls say “thank you” rather than “I’m sorry” - apology forces that person to tell you it’s ok, which is strange. THANK YOU suggests that u understand it’s not okay and you’re grateful to have been corrected!” --Dan Owens on Twitter.

~

BE KIND TO YOURSELF

Accept that you’ll make mistakes and that’s okay. “There is no fast, there's no short cut for it except making sure you do it regularly, and correcting yourself when you inevitably get it wrong. It isn't actually a huge deal, most non-binary people recognise the difference between a slip up (particularly if you knew the person pre-coming out) and wilful misgendering.” --CJ Atkinson

Privately say/think kind things to yourself when you get it right. Learning new pronouns can be really hard and positive reinforcement is good for you!

Forgive yourself when you get it wrong. Don’t beat yourself up, because everyone gets it wrong sometimes and you can’t learn if you don’t make mistakes. “Don't punish yourself for slipping up. As long as you're trying you're good.” --An anonymous trans binary person.

Start easy and work up. “When it comes to neopronouns they become easier to use after learning they/them because you've already got a base to work off of, if you will.” --An anonymous nonbinary trans-masc person.

~

DON’T PUT IT ON THEM

It’s your responsibility. If you’re reading this then you probably already know this! No one should have to work to have their identity recognised and respected, no matter how uncommon their pronouns are. “Not putting the onus of correction on the person I've misgendered has been key for me.” --helen

Don’t ask a nonbinary person to correct you. It is exhausting and depressing to have to correct other people on your pronouns all the time. If you need someone to correct you, ask your binary friends to correct you and each other, whether the nonbinary person is within earshot or not.

Don’t talk to them about how hard their pronouns are. Nonbinary people have to deal with a steady stream of “I’m really sorry, I am trying but it’s just so hard.” We know it’s hard for some people and we get it, but we also know that it is possible and quite frankly, as the people in the middle ring of the Kvetching Order we’re not the ones you should be complaining to.

[ask-artsy-oncie]

Thoughts on “Genderbending”

Long post under the cut

Recently I received a couple of anons (one of which was very rude and used slurrs, the other which was less rude but was still angry and more accusatory rather than informative) telling me that “genderbending” - which is something I recently did and have been doing from time to time with Branch and Poppy from Dreamworks’ Trolls and also something I do regularly with Klonoa from the Kaze no Klonoa series (neither anon specified) - is inherently transphobic. I can kind of see where this argument comes from, but at the same time, I had never heard this before.

 I have, however, heard something incredibly similar: that the term “genderswapping” is transphobic because it implies a binary, where as “genderbending” or “rule 63″ are more appropriate terms because it implies more than two. Now, I don’t deny that I may have used the term “genderswap” before just purely on accident. I’m genuinely sorry if I have done this, because as a nonbinary person, myself, I don’t seek to reinforce a binary. Please point me out to any time that I’ve said it and I’ll edit it immediately. I will be more conscious of it in the future.

But yes, as I’ve said, I’ve never heard this argument before. So, I decided to look it up. I found discussions about it from both people who’s sidebars on tumblr state that they are transgender people, and from the transgender community on reddit (and no, one website does not represent one side or the other, I just want to be clear that I’ve checked more than one demographic, more than one platform, because I wanted to be informed by group discussion of the matter rather than one person writing some kind of article on it). Now that I’ve looked into it, and why people from both sides feel the way they do, I have some feelings of my own on the matter, again, as a trans individual, myself, and as an artist.

There are a couple of reasons as to why I’m making this its own post. One, because now that I have some specific opinions on this, I’d rather just address everybody instead of responding to an angry individual. Two, because these were, again, anons. I don’t know who these people are, if they were looking just to get a rise out of me (I must thank you, though, for drawing my interest to the topic!), or if they genuinely cared about the topic. I don’t know if they’re a cis person or a trans person, either, and I feel the need to say this before going any further: if you are a cisgender individual and feel the need to not only police but talk over and ignore the feelings of a transgender individual on a transgender issue, you are being very transphobic. Please, if you are a passionate cisgender ally who cares a lot about an issue that concerns transgender people, do not come to a transgender person with accusations, and instead maybe ask for my thoughts on the topic, why I do something the way I do, and look to educate yourself on the topic and how some trans individuals feel about it. (And respect the fact that there are topics that trans people have differing opinions on!)

Getting that out of the way, I suppose I’ll just get right to the point: I do not 100% agree or disagree with the statement that genderbending is transphobic. I lean more towards disagreement, but there are some things that keep me from full on, strongly disagreeing, and feel more like this should be handled more on a case-by-case basis.

For instance, I do see how this can be seen to reinforce a binary. Once again, I don’t think that any terminology such as “genderswapping” that outright implies a binary should be used. In addition, because “genderbending” more often than not refers to “sexbending” and not actual “genderbending” (because sex and gender are two different things), I can also see how many people do not like this term, either. I admit to not having thought of this, before, but my decision to continue to use the term “genderbending” comes from the popular use of the term: many people who do not wish to see this in any form will blacklist the term, and I’m not going to stand on some high horse and say “well I call it ‘sexbending’ so you should automatically be okay with it!”. If someone doesn’t want to see it, I shouldn’t stop using a term they’re going to blacklist (similarly to how some people started typing stupid variations of “j/o/n/tron” (i.e. “jonathan tronathan”) and my blacklist wouldn’t pick it up. I don’t think certain term switches like this are helpful at all). This doesn’t mean that I don’t acknowledge and recognize how problematic these terms are, and I will continue to push for the idea that sex and gender are two different things, because I do feel strongly about that. Just please know that any future uses of the term “genderbending” actually refer to “sexbending”.

It is really a vague, grey area of what genderbending truly refers to. While I use it in terms of sexbending, there is also an idea that genderbending refers to the transformation of “cis male” to “cis female” or vice versa. I don’t 100% approve of this, and it depends on the situation the characters are put into. If someone is going to make an alternate universe where “everything is the same except some characters are a different sex” fine, I’m okay with that, and I don’t really see a problem with that, in both instances a character starts cis and in this AU is cis, starts cis and in this AU is tans (because sex is different from gender). Instances where a character starts as trans and in this AU is cis is pretty gross!!!!! because it erases trans identities, please don’t do this. But, going from cis to cis, I don’t consider transphobic, because there is such a thing as cisgender people, and nobody is erasing any trans characters just because they keep a cis character cis.

Then there are also forms of genderbending where a character undergoes a magical transformation, and openly acknowledges that in this universe, said character had previously been a different sex. There are trans people that are against this because they believe it grossly oversimplifies the transitioning process, and there are other trans people who are totally fine with this, myself included, because it allows many trans people to fantasize about a reality where characters (specifically trans characters) do not have to undergo surgery in order to transition. This is especially apparent, I’ve noticed, in trans individuals who cannot undergo surgery (and want to) due to either financial or health complications. Please remember that genderbending happens within a fiction, a fantasy. Allow trans people to fantasize, too, please.

Transformation genderbending can be used incorrectly and problematically, though. There are cis people who ignore the idea of gender dysphoria entirely, and make cis characters who magically transform into cis characters of a different sex, and that isn’t okay, because, again, I feel that this is erasure. I want it to be well known that I am guilty of this a total of one (1) time, about five years ago, and it was due to ignorance (I wasn’t even aware of most trans identities at that point), and in all honesty, I’m working on rewriting a lot of aspects of the story that that occurred in. Every other form of transformation genderbending that I’ve done (both online and offline) has addressed gender dysphoria. Another problematic version that occurs in both transformation genderbending and just genderbending in general is fetish artwork. There are many, many (SO MANY) examples of genderbending that includes changing body types and major features of a character (i.e. making a character unreasonably curvy, getting rid of muscles, adding an obscene amount of muscles, making a character skinnier, etc.) for the sake of making a character more attractive, usually to an audience consisting of cis people. It disgusts me as both a human being and as a character designer, and I always put a lot of effort into making a genderbent character design to make sure its still the same character, only just a different sex. Like, seriously, changing a character’s entire design or an important aspect of their design for the sake of making a genderbend “attractive”, call that out, because THAT’s not okay, for reasons beyond transphobia. Genderbending, I don’t believe, should exist for the purposes of fetishes (this is different from, say, drawing NSFW of a genderbent character, because sex doesn’t necessarily equal fetish, please be aware and think critically about what kind of artwork you’re looking at. Some fetish artwork doesn’t necessarily fall under NSFW either, so don’t be afraid to call something out just because it’s SFW) and genderbending shouldn’t completely change a character design.

And in regards to characters like Klonoa (because I have many genderfluid OCs and hc a lot of characters as genderfluid) I want it to be well known that as a genderfluid individual, I use genderbending to help fantasize about transition/cope with gender dysphoria. It occurs in works of fiction, and maybe I just want my fiction to be ideal. I openly talked about Klonoa having gender dysphoria and not wanting them to suffer from disphoria when they live in a world with benevolent magic readily available. This is the main reason why I genderbend characters, and I actually encouraged others, both cis and trans, to genderbend Klonoa because of this idea that Klonoa is genderfluid. I also have genderfluid OCs who undergo transformation genderbending in order to combat dysphoria, like, this is just a common theme with me. I feel like it helps give more visibility to their gender identity and also gets audience members more comfortable with trans identities outside of the gender binary. I genuinely do feel like, if pulled off correctly, some forms of genderbending can actually be beneficial to the trans community because it can aid in breaking down taboos.

Overall, I do see genderbending as a grey area that can be pulled off terribly and problematically, and I don’t blame people for not liking it, but doing it for fun or even for fantasizing isn’t always a problem, and in some cases, can be beneficial to trans individuals, and are produced by trans artists. Be very conscious of source of artwork before calling someone out or their work out as problematic, because, chances are, you don’t know the whole story. At the same time, as an artist, especially a non-marginalized artist, please be aware of what you are creating and any damage it could possibly do. If you’re going to be writing a marginalized character (in a group you are not a part of, especially) do your research!  Anyways, maybe this was spurred by an anon, but this has evolved into something I really wanted to voice my opinion and own personal experiences on. I’d really appreciate it if people took the time to read this! Thank you to anyone who stuck around and listened to what I had to say...!

[airagorncharda]

My reply to a post got REAL long, so I’m just putting it here and sending them a link

@gretchensinister

[your post]

Goddddd this got so long, sorry!

You said you’d be up for opening that can of worms, so here’s my input!

Like TJ, I'm wary of the advice of "just make mpregs about trans dudes!" because (as a trans guy) that feels like it falls into the problem of fetishizing us/our bodies, in that it diminishes us to the sum of our physical parts, and ignores that lots of trans guys (especially during/post transition) cannot get pregnant, and ignores that most trans guys (or at least all the trans guys I’ve met) find the idea of getting pregnant very dysphoric and unpleasant. "Just write mpreg about trans dudes” also falls into the trap of allowing/encouraging women who are not queer and who are fetishizing/commodifying queer male bodies for their own sexual escapism to do minimal research before writing trans people, which usually just results in bad writing. 

So I’m WARY of it. 

That being said, I've never gotten the impression that the way YOU would write a trans character would be shallow like that. You give all of your characters deep thought and consideration as people, which automatically means you’re not diminishing them to sexual objects. Your description of your own fic verifies that for me, personally. 

I don't know any trans men who want to get pregnant, but they DO exist, and I DO find it conceptually interesting to read about trans guys where that’s something they would want. 

For me personally, I’m more inclined to say “consider that trans people exist when you decide to write mpreg” than TJ is, because for me I’d prefer to get a higher quantity of fic written about trans people, even if lots of it is garbage. People won’t learn to write us better if they never write us at all. So for me, I definitely don’t want to tell people NOT to, and I AM interested in the subject, I’m just also aware that most depictions of trans men + pregnancy are going to be gross and fetishistic. 

There’s a whole history around mpreg (which is similar to the A/B/O tropes and the seme/uke yaoi bullshit) that’s basically cis women reinforcing misogynistic heteronormative relationship dynamics-- but on TWO MEN (gasp!)!! instead of on a m/f relationship. It’s catharsis, because they can explore the ins-and-outs of the shitty social situation they’re stuck in without it actually being about THEM for once, but unfortunately it has the effect of fetishizing queer male bodies in harmful ways. The mpreg thing is... also just cissexist and gross on that level, which is why for me, encouraging SOME LEVEL of acknowledgement that there actually ARE men who can get pregnant feels important. 

The other half of it though is that I’ve literally never seen someone write a trans woman who is magically able to get pregnant just because she wants to. People are willing to write cis men who are able to get pregnant for 50million nonsense reasons (and really, I used to be into mpreg, so I can assure you that the explanations for how it works are incredibly diverse and thought out, and NONE of them make much sense), but nobody seems willing to give that level of consideration, thought, and care to a trans woman character. 

The fact that I’ve never seen anyone say “I wrote a fic where a trans woman gets pregnant and lives happily ever after” but I’ve seen an UNBELIEVABLE number of fics about cis men getting pregnant, and also a lot of people being like “just write trans men getting pregnant because after all trans men are just women with different pronouns, right?!” (again, it doesn’t sound like that’s what you did, but I’ve seen other people doing that) says a lot about how these people are really thinking about trans people. They aren’t writing about us to write about us, they’re writing about us to write about THEM, but in a fetishistic escapist way that is harmful. 

Overall I think it can be done, and I personally would like to see more of it, but I’m 1) not holding my breath that most people are going to do it, and 2) definitely not holding my breath that they’ll get it right if they do.

On to your original question:

Are cisswaps fine? ... I mean... I think the answer is just “Yes” but also “some people go about it in gross ways, which is not fine” with a side of “people use the term ‘genderswap’ when they mean ‘cisswap’ and that’s transphobic and ignorant”

I don’t think there’s anything WRONG with the idea of just rewriting a cis man as a cis woman. 

The problem comes in with how people handle it. I’ve seen a few versions of this going really wrong really fast (and honestly I don’t think I’ve seen any of them from you, nor would I expect to). Off the top of my head in no particular order:

1) Making queer pairings straight, aka hetswapping:

Specifically I saw a LOT of this in the Hobbit fandom with Bilbo/Thorin fics. The fandom actually seemed to have more m/f [cis man thorin + cisswapped cis woman bilbo] than it had of them in their original forms (and of course it had WAY higher of both than of f/f cisswapped femslash, or of either of them as trans). 

While some authors do this sort of thing justice, and the occasional m/f cisswap fic isn’t bad, there’s a big problem with hetswapping. Basically that’s where the writer decides “I like this pairing except for that pesky sinful queerness. Lets fix that right up!” and makes them not only a m/f pairing, but also both inexplicably hetero. This is --phobic and erasure of all queer identities that can produce m/f relationships, and it’s just queerphobic in general for obvious reasons. 

And again, when tropes like this inundate a fandom with such force that they utterly overwhelm the other fic... there’s something screwy going on.

2) Everyone be gay men. Everyone.

All the women in the story get cisswapped to be dudes, so that everybody can be fetishized equally.

Literally this is just an excuse to write bad fetishistic penis/penis porn, and it’s pretty much always rife with aggressive sexism and queerphobia.

3) Complete physical makeover.

Beefy masculine male character submitted to the cisswap machine? Enjoy your thin, busty, long haired femm with a completely different body type and facial structure. She likes makeup and boys and she’s clumsy. 

Basically this is just people not comprehending that people are people, that changing someone’s gender doesn’t need to change that much about them, and that the biology of cis men and the biology of cis women is... not that different. Society has a huge effect on how people grow up, including how much they eat and what they feel comfortable wearing, etc. 

I know you know all this, just saying again-- there’s a ton of reasons why this form of cisswap is sexist and cissexist and gross. 

What you were mentioning about making cisswaps where the characters are mostly physically unchanged? Honestly I love that idea. Not enough people do it. More often than that, I’ve seen people do that same design for trans characters, which makes honestly LESS sense to me, because trans people are usually forced to be much more performative with gender expression than cis people. Also, always writing/drawing trans women as being “obviously” dmab, and trans men as being “obviously” dfab is gross and transphobic. Writing/drawing CIS people who don’t fit the expected physical binary is way more underdone and very needed. 

Basically, ultimately I don’t think it’s cisswaps that are the problem, I think it’s how they’re handled. A lot of people handle them badly, which has left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths in regards to them, and that might be why you’d encounter someone who HATES them or who they make really uncomfortable. It’s not a matter of them being inherently bad, so much as there being a lot more bad examples than good ones.

Again, sorry this became like a dissertation instead of a reply. I figured since you were hoping to have a conversation about it, I should really put all my thoughts down. ^__^