#bc of gwyn's past

[behrdara]

a moment of solitude, seeking solace in something that seems to call to her more than anything else. her grandmother would say, in her last years of life, that she wanted so dearly to return to what called to her, which was the water ( gwyn did not understand at the time, how her grandmother suffered being stuck on dry feet ). water nymphs will wither away, like a flower deprived of nourishment, if they are away from the their home, but in her last moment of living, the old woman sought shore to die, wanting not to be seen by the others. or perhaps, she wanted to see her bastard offspring, one last time.

but gwyneth seeks solace not in the water, but in the silence, peaceful and ominous, of a temple. standing before the altar, she knows not who to pray to in this place, but does so, either ways ( forgive my insolence, forgive my intruding ). and when footsteps echoe behind her, dissipating the divine silence within the temple, gwyn turns around, rather bashful, " i didn't ... i didn't know what to do. i -- where i come from, we keep our heads down when praying, but i don't know -- " her hands still carry the tattooed ink, which all priestesses from sangravah have on the back of their palms, and they press together as if pleading to the other woman, " can you please teach me how to pray here? " @soranaisyrennalavrovne ft. sorana lavrovne ot lukomorya.

[violetasteracademic]

Why do you think gwyn would be added as a love interest for azriel if they don’t end up as endgame? Why complicate the love triangle between elain/lucien/azriel?

Hello my lovely anon!

It can sometimes be hard to tell where the anonymous asks in my inbox are coming from. It is never my intention to argue or try to convince any other ships why they are wrong. I tag my work very carefully, ask my beloved rebloggers to do the same, and just want to stay in a cozy bubble. I think all ships are allowed, and the time I spend here breaking down the text and providing analysis is only for fun and comfort. I don't ever want or wish for my posts to end up in the wrong tags. Now that I've gotten that disclaimer out of the way, this is an ask where I can't *totally* tell what perspective it is coming from, but I am assuming it is being asked in good faith and I will answer how I typically do.

Point blank, I do not believe G/wyn was introduced as a love interest. Only Elain was.

I don't really know that I have anything else to add to that conversation, because people either think it was romantic or it wasn't. But I will say that I assume we can all agree on all sides that the bonus chapter is what led to the fervor of the G/wynriel ship as G/wyn quite literally replacing Elain as the romantic interest and not just a fun, enjoyable ship for those who don't jive with Elriel and want to carve out a space for themselves in the fandom. And as someone who has read all of SJM's bonus chapters and not just this one, I'm going to provide side by side comparisons using *only* bonus chapters that I can almost guarantee many people have not read- since most people don't read the bonus chapters. I still get comments on old tiktoks every day asking what the Azriel bonus chapter is and where to find it. And not once have I ever been asked about the myriad of other BC's out there.

Crescent City Spoilers ahead:

House of Sky and Breath has three bonus chapters. There is one in particular that is almost a carbon copy of G/wyn and Azriel's portion in his POV bonus, and it is the Tharion POV chapter with Hypaxia:

^^Both men head to a place where they assumed they would be alone, minds heavy and restless and needing to work off some tension before they could sleep- only to find their space already occupied.

^^They both flounder a bit with social niceties, awkwardness, being polite, the other person clearly wanting to be alone, and yet wind up falling into a conversation anyway.

^^ Both pairs experience surprise at being asked questions no one has ever asked them before. They also reveal information about themselves- and notably- both bonus chapters reveal heavy backstory or indications about unique or hidden powers.

^^ Both men experience some sort of lingering sensation that they could have sworn was happening after saying goodnight.

And last but not least:

Both Tharion and Azriel end on a particularly strong emotional note. Tharion is passing notes through Fitz back and forth with Hypaxia. He notes how he has never had such an instant, honest, and deep connection. He won't let anyone interfere with her birthright, and if she was in danger, he would risk everything he had to protect Hypaxia.

Azriel is secretly regifting a necklace to Gwyn, and feels truly happy at the thought that it might make her happy. He likes and respects her and is glad to think of being able to make her smile. (I of course think there is a reason for this, which I've broken down here but I also don't think it's necessary to minimize their friendship for this post.)

If you look at these two bonus chapters side by side, they are literally a copy and paste. Two people needing to be alone and winding up together, talking about things they have never talked about anyone with, and both men really powerfully feeling the strength and depth of a connection. And if you read Tharion's chapter in full, there are actually way more details of him talking about how beautiful and gorgeous she is, and how he has to stop himself from going down that road. But did this set up Hypaxia and Tharion as romantic love interests?

Nope. Hypaxia is queer as queer can be. Kitty only on her menu. But they develop a very genuine and close friendship. Because the thing is, SJM writes an incredible amount of deep and meaningful friendships between men and women. And they are always a blend of emotion, intimacy, a bit fun and flirty, full of banter, and true trust and connection. So as far as BC's, Azriel and G/wyn and Tharion and Hypaxia are the only comparable ones in her catalogue. And they are pretty damn comparable. It's also important to note that the Tharion and Hypaxia bonus chapter was included in the book where she is very much revealed as 100% queer and not even a little bi, so it's not like SJM was trying to create a red herring or a conversation. That's just how she writes her hetero platonic friendships. Take it up with her, man.

Meanwhile, the things that make it clear that a romantic interest is being introduced occurs in the Elain portion, and can be directly compared to the Nessian bonus chapter. Both men being willing to beg on their knees for a taste. Both men absolutely losing their minds over Elain and Nesta's scents. Both men knowing it was wrong, it was stupid, but being unable to stop themselves anyway. Both men having issues of what their family would think if they found out introduced (only Rhys DID find out and laid down that forbidden romance hard.)

Here's the thing- many people read Elain and Azriel as romantic for over four books and there were people out there like, nah, I don't see it, they are more like brother and sister. And then the bonus chapter confirmed, no, actually, they are wildly down bad and desperate for each other. Wanting to taste and touch and kiss each other- romantic interest confirmation. Fun and banter-y conversation occurring because two people needed to be alone but actually wound up in the same vicinity as someone else and had a deep conversation and talked about things they've never spoken about with anyone before-Platonic friendship. You can disagree. But it doesn't change the fact that right now, a group of fans are interpreting G/wyn and Azriel's interactions as romantic, and preferring it to Elain and Azriel's confirmed romantic interactions.

Sarah did not add G/wyn as a love interest and complicate things. The fandom did. Until Azriel is not sleeping, not thinking clearly, down bad desperate to get on his knees for G/wyn- and until G/wyn leans into his touch and says yes, they are actually currently friends. Could that change in the future? Totally. But Sarah literally has not written it yet.

I don't mind that the G/wyn ship exists. I love her. I have real life G/wynriel friends who are not online like we are. They are good people with good hearts who have different taste in Azriel's potential romance than me. They don't ride at dawn for Elain like I do, nor are they violently misogynistic against her or being toxic and hateful towards other women online. They just liked G/wyn's story and want more of her. That's okay. But it is important to pay attention to what has actually been written vs. what is being assumed by a group of people that openly dislike the only female character remaining with a confirmed book and who has been confirmed as a love interest.

Read Sarah's other bonus chapters! They are fun. Azriel's isn't the only one that has ever existed, but it seems like that sometimes (and I'll admit, it's amazing and I love it so fair). And nothing happened in the bonus chapter that is going to change the course or foreshadow to anything new. Not everyone has access to them, and bonus chapters do not create new plot. They are just an incentive to make money and secure pre-orders.

I think that's everything! You guys are awesome for reading these insanely long posts and vibing with me here. ily.

[ater-love]

Cassian meets Emerie and then gives the gift to Nesta but she rejects it

People start shipping him with Emerie.

Azriel gives the gift to Elain but she “rejects” it and then he meets Gwyn

People start shipping him with Gwyn.

Sarah literally did copy paste and people are falling for it ONCE AGAIN

Nessian’s kiss was stopped by Nesta in their BC and Elriel’s kiss was stopped by Rhys in their BC

Nessian ended up being endgame (shocker) and Elriel will follow their footsteps

[lovemyromance]

No bc if ALL SJM was doing with Elriel was setting them up to be the charred ruined ashes from which the Elucien & Gwynriel ships set sail....

Why even include Elriel at ALL?

Sorry - correction - why ONLY include Elriel moments from ACOWAR - ACOSF? And no moments with Elucien? No mention even of Gwyn or Gwynriel?

Feysand had setup and chemistry with each other in ACOTAR. Nessian had setup and chemistry as early as ACOMAF, 3 whole books before we got their story.

But you're telling me, on the eve of an Elucien or Gwynriel book, we have had ZERO displays of their chemistry and setup together?

This is not a standalone series. It's a continuation - a spinoff from Feyre's story. There is no reason why there should be ZERO build up between these alleged couples in a spinoff. That's the exact OPPOSITE of what authors do for spinoffs and sequels.

Elriel is not "build up for Elucien". It can't be - if there's no Elucien in sight. Now, if SJM had written Elriel - but ALSO had Elain & Lucien interact and be in each others orbit over the past 3 books - then I would be more open to considering this argument.

But alas / every plot point Elucien should've had to set them up (rescue scene, power discovery scene, giving Elain an almighty weapon scene, potatoes scene, bonus chapter scene) -> all that has been given to Elain & Azriel.

If SJM planned on EL/GA - all Elain & Azriel would've hypothetically shared is an off page hookup. But that's not what we got. We got scenes where they start to understand and care about each other. We get scenes where they show their subtle attraction (and eventually - right in your face attraction) to each other.

If SJM wanted to make Elain & Azriel a bump in each others roads to HEA -> she would've written them the same way Nesta fucked some nameless fae in the first chapter of ACOSF.

Vaguely. Barely a paragraph. ONE mention.

You don't painstakingly set up quiet moments with them in the background of Feyre or Nesta's book. In fact - you don't even bother with setting up any interactions between them until this supposed Elucien/Gwynriel book.

There is simply no reason to waste words like that. SJM has already said the spinoff is dual POV, one couple.

This is not throne of glass where Aelin went through 2 men in 3 books just to end up with someone new. This is not CC, where Ruhn went through Hypaxia to end up with Lydia. Those were multi-POV, and relationships were developed across multiple books.

And all this is just based on the logic of how Elriel has so many interactions together - let alone the actual quality and significance of the actual scenes. Their stories have been woven together since ACOWAR.

SJM compared Elain's potato steam to Azriel's shadows for fucks sake. Think about how y'all would react if Elain baked a caramel tart that was described as "the same golden hue as Lucien's eyes". Think about how y'all would react if Gwyn gave Azriel a book on how to sing better idk - a gift that made him laugh so hard his eyes brightened / a gift that he stared at for a YEAR

Y'all would go nuts, don't even act otherwise.

The mating bond between Elain & Lucien is the obstacle here. Not Elain & Azriel's blooming relationship.

[elrielffs]

I wanted to touch on the BC (yes, AGAIN, for the millionth time) because...

The Azriel PoV BC is treated special, like it matters more than any other BC that SJM has ever done and here's the thing...it doesn't.

The BC's are canon, that is a fact. They aren't deleted scenes or things that SJM didn't intend. They are just as they are stated. Bonus Chapter/Content.

Now, as a bonus that inherently means it's a cherry on top of the story. A fun little extra. It can forshadow, show character intentions in a deeper light, be fun, be smutty, have conflict but at the end of the day it is not important to the story and it is not needed. Even the BC where two characters get married--it is not needed. We know the couple are together and have already gone thru their journey. We never saw Feyre and Rhysand's mating ceremony--again something that we didn't need but would have been nice to have.

A lot of people have put much stock into the Azriel BC because of shipping wars, some even saying it should be in the book proper because how will the story continue without people knowing what happened?

But...that's just it. If this chapter was as important as people like to say it is--surely it would have at least been more widespread?? Included in all standard editions of ACOSF?? Instead it was released in two countries, in the US and Brazil, in copies only from one store.

You can't even get it anymore unless it's secondhand.

So many people in fandom don't even know this BC exists.

Now, to the contents of the BC proper.

I fully believe this BC was intended to cement Elain and Azriel's feelings and showcase that Gwyn has more going on power wise than first shown.

And guess what? We don't need that as readers.

We don't NEED a scene between Azriel and Elain because we know that the feelings are there due to the past books. (There are so many post detailing the Elain and Az scenes and people have eyeballs and supposedly read the books other than ACOSF.)

We know Gwyn has more going on power wise that has not been revealed. Her interactions with Nesta in ACOSF and Nesta herself describing Gwyn having something under the surface and the secret of Gwyn's parentage. Azriel's reactions to Gwyn are similiar to Nesta's. Even in the bc itself is a callback to Azriel's interaction with Elain--a thing of secret lovely beauty is used in BOTH scenes (which people conveniently forget).

It's was all laid out in ACOSF. We do not need this BC.

The BC takes place in the middle of the book--roughly. And nothing changes. Gwyn and Azriel's relationship to each other doesn't deepen, Azriel is still pining after Elain. Is the chapter still canon? Yes, but it is not integral to the story.

The only thing I can think of that might be important is Rhysand's conversation with Azriel but even that could be explained in a sentence or two or rehashed into a new scene which SJM could easily do if she felt like it.

I just don't think SJM intended the BC to blow up as it did. People can think differently, sure and I could be wrong but with it's limited availability and the fact that it was not included in the book proper and the story moves on without it---I just don't see how it's important as it's made out to be.

Edit to add: Yes the BC is available online but people would have to know it exists first to know to look for it and it’s only online due to fans. Neither Bloomsbury or SJM have published the BC online or pointed to it for understanding the next book.

[acourtofthought]

Being a G*wynriel must be exhausting. They keep holding on to two sentences of a bonus chapter because nothing supports their ship. They keep checking our tags to copy theories, call us delusional, and feel better about themselves. They seem to think that the louder they are, and the more they insist that their ship should be endgame, SJM will change her plans and give them what they want.

Meanwhile, this is us Elriels watching their constant meltdown, knowing that we don’t need the BC because our ship has always been there. We don’t need a couple of misinterpreted sentences. We have countless interactions and four books to support our ship. We don’t need to interpret SJM’s intentions as if we were reading an ancient text. It’s all on the page.

Wow are you ever bored.

Are you the same person that's been scouring past anons and copy / pasting them into other Gwynriel and Elucien accounts? I never thought I'd say this but at least the anons I usually receive haven't resorted to stealing things other people have posted, they've at least come up with their own.

The funniest part of this particular message is Gwynriels don't need the bonus at all.

The book itself tells us how Cassian looks over at Az and sees admiration and quiet encouragement shining from his face.....all for Gwyn. The book itself has Az's brows raised high in amusement while staring after Gwyn after she she shoots Az a withering stare and tosses over her shoulder, "See you tomorrow, Shadowsinger" which Nesta follows up with a wink and clapping a hand on Az's shoulder telling him he's Gwyn's new ribbon. And we know how dedicated Gwyn was to conquering that ribbon. The book also has Az believing in the trio of girls to make it through the deadliest competition in Illyrian history.

Without the bonus, all the book gives you is Elain looking away from Az's smile, Amren reprimanding Az for not believing in her ability to search for the Trove, and one "charged" look between Az and Elain that goes completely unexplained in the following 5 months after Solstice.

The book ends with Az and Elain sharing zero interactions after December but Cassian and Az's plans to continue training the Valkyrie after the Rite. It's clear who will be spending time with who in future books and who Sarah left in the dirt after the events of Solstice.

[nikethestatue]

What if SJM is enjoying the ship war because the BC is a taste of what’s to come in the book? My biggest fear is that the next book will have too much Gwyn. I find her extremely annoying and my biggest fear is that, even if she’s a lightsinger and/or evil, the book will have too much of her. I understand that she serves no role in Elain’s journey, but since the book could also include Azriel’s pov, she could have a big role in his journey. I don’t know, if she serves a purpose only on Nesta’s journey, then why include her in the BC? Half of the BC is almost entirely about her and Azriel. If that’s what the book is going to be about, it’s a hard pass for me, and I’ll come to Tumblr and “read” the book through your posts. I don’t think I can read a 600 page book where half of it will make my blood boil.

one thing to remember is that SJM often 'preps' things WAY in advance. Like way, way, way in advance.

You heard about Dusk Court in ACOMAF for the first time. A throwaway line when Feysand went to the Prison. Then, in ACOWAR, there was some mention again. But this time, of Fionn and Theia. There was a mention of Gwydion.

The idea that mate bonds aren't perfect was first put out there in ACOMAF. Then in ACOWAR, you have more conversations about it. And we STILL haven't had a story about that.

In ACOMAF, Feyre mentions that Amren and Nesta would be friends.

What I mean to say is that books pass, sometimes MANY books, because certain people and storylines are picked up again. So I wouldn't worry about Gwyn in Elain's book. I don't think she will be featured much, tbh. If at all.

I think Gwyn might be slated for a totally different story. I think it's still a story around that Valkyries. And if the Valks will be the 'witches of TOG' in ACOTAR, that story will be about a female fighting force.

Yes, Gwyn was in the bonus. But so was Rhys. And Clotho, who plays a significant role in not just the bonus, but in the overall ACOTAR story. How do we know that the bonus wasn't more about Clotho, who oversees this enormous mysterious Library, who has the confidence of Rhys and who was horribly mutilated over some secret, not to mention who played a huge part in Nesta's recovery, AND might be a daemati.

Maybe we were conditioned to look at everything through the prism of the shipwar?

What if SJM was pointing HERE, but we are looking THERE.

What if Clotho is a surviving Valkyrie? One of the original ones? What if she is a witch?

That's what I've been doing lately--and been very conscious of it--not to look at the text the way we've been looking at it for 4 years. Because EVERYTHING's been colored by the shipwar, and it was not something SJM intended for. So, what is the text ACTUALLY telling us? Where should we be paying attention?

WHY was Clotho in the bonus at all? If SJM was really gunning for some romantic Gwynriel interlude, then why not structure the chapter very differently?

You have all signs of 'charming irreverence' disappearing from Gwyn the moment Azriel turns his back. Why? Why no longing looks? But instead, Gwyn looks at the ribbon like it's an opponent. Why note that the shadows didn't warn him about her presence?

Then, instead of giving the necklace directly to her--which is kind of normal, if it's a romantic coupling--he has this whole mysterious exchange with Clotho. Gives HER the necklace. And then suddenly feels better for a moment.

The question is--what was SJM REALLY trying to show in the bonus beyond just Elriel? Was it really the Gwynriel mate bond? OR, was it turning our attention to not one, but two people with strange powers, who live in the same place and have a mysterious background.

I think we need to start caring less about Gwyn and Gwynriel, because that's not what SJM was writing. Whatever her story will be, it wont be the one that GAs have been feeding the masses for the past 4 years.

[batboys-cumdumpster]

Emerie and Gwyn ride Nesta's dick so hard it's so embarrassing. The fact they tell her she has nothing to apologize for when they know NOTHING of her past is ridiculous.

Imagine being a massive abuser and treating strangers with more kindness than your own family. Nesta found traumatized, lost little puppies and adopted them bc they followed her without a second thought and worship the ground she walks on. Imagine how badly Nesta would lash out at them the moment they would "stray" from her, maybe worse than what she said to Elain.

Emerie and Gwyn should have died in the rite. Nesta should have died giving her life to bring Feyre back after birthing Nyx. That would have been my happy ending.

[elainsgirl]

okay but I feel like acosf was a joke. where was the love between nesta and cassian? they were just having sex 24/7. the only good thing about the book was nesta friendship with gwyn and emerie and the valkyries. nesta and cassian need more buildup. im also confused on how nesta, emerie, and gwyn won the blood rite against men who trained for decades and they trained for like 6 months??? cassian acted like he couldn't keep his D in his pants (and there's argument about azriel just lusting for elain???? where did that come from?? im confused. because from acosf I only saw a few moments from them that will probably be in the next book for their story. i have no idea about lucien, hes just there to me.) feyre's pregnancy should not have happened. im sorry but it was just out of the blue for me. we deserved to see her pov and her reaction from feyre and rhys pov, not nesta! then everyone lied to feyre???? what is this book??? help me understand.

Hey anon 🫶 (buckle up this is long)

Acosf was…something. In terms of healing and friendship, I loved the message it sent, that everyone can heal - but you have to work hard for it. Similar to how hard you have to work when climbing a mountain but when you get to the top - all the efforts you’ve made are worth it, you’ve conquered your trauma and past, are now looking ahead to an endless future.

That being said - wtf was acosf? It just felt like an easy way out.

Cassian and Nesta had the set up, the potential angst, longing - it was all there. Mass just couldn’t do them justice and I can’t wrap my head around why. Aside from fics, im not an author or a writer. I can be ignorant and say the book should have been easy to write & Mass flopped big time bcs she didn’t know what she was doing - but it’s easy to critique. So take whatever I say with a grain of salt, especially as its been 4 years since I read the book (thats how bad it was. I mentally just can’t reread that book)

Everything from acosf fell flat. I can’t tell you why Cassian loved Nesta. I can comfirm he was attracted to her, but love? I don’t know. You could feel Rhysand’s feelings towards Feyre. His admiration, adoration and determination to make her happy & give her everything she wants. With Nessian I couldn’t feel that. Yes, Cassian has been there for Nesta during her toughest times but it never felt enough. I think it’s because they lacked tender moments between them, most of their moments always came back to them doing each other. I just needed more pure scenes. Imagine Nesta having a nightmare and Cass comes, soothes her - they talk a little of Nesta’s childhood, maybe a good memory between the sisters - and eventually Nesta falls asleep on his shoulder and he just stares and admires her. We needed to see more of these vulnerable, soft moments. I also feel as though Sjm didn’t know how to get Nesta and Cass in forced proximity. So she lumps them - through problematic means - at the house of wind together. I also think Mass wanted to get straight into writing their intimate scenes - either to please herself or her Cassian fans that wanted to see what he’d be like - the issue however…was Nesta ready to get into a physical relationship? I don’t think so. We needed to see more yearning and angst before they got together. Cass at times acted like a dog that needed to be watered. He had 0 growth & didn’t feel fleshed out. Also the way he talks about Mor? Are we sure he isn’t the obsessed one and it’s Azriel? All I know is by the end of acosf - I was not rooting for Nesta and Cass. Nesta needed time & adjustment. They needed to become friends who can rely & trust each other first before becoming romantic or accepting their bond. All that being said, I don’t hate Nessian. More development can always come in future books. They’re definitely endgame even if some stans are in denial and think Sjm will pull a wild card, have Nessian break up. Only for Nesta to end up with Eris following her mother’s desires.

The valkryies winning the rite felt too much like a perfect fairytale ending - I think we need to accept the fact these books will be the definition of Cliche. Cliche romances, tropes & friendships. Sjm isn’t going for realism (aside from the characters’ healing aspect) these are her perfect stories. So whilst the valkryies winning may make no sense realistically- if we look at it from a fairytale view: you have 3 friends who worked together, helping each other through trust and perseverance to win. They did it through the bond of friendship- which is the cliche message. You can’t always climb a mountain by yourself. It will get hard. You will want to give up. You need friends who you can trust to help pick you back up - you don’t have to go through the healing process alone. Everyone will have someone that will be the Gwyn/Emerie to their Nesta.

The only way Sjm can redeem herself from that pregnancy plotline is by giving a novella of feysand dealing w the pregnancy during acosf. I think Mass needed to “redeem” Nesta in a huge way- feyre’s life and family being in danger was the way She came up with. Sucks bcs it could have been dealt with better. I also think if we got Feyre’s pregnancy from Rhysands pov - a lot more people will sympathise with him & lay off in harshly judging his character. Everyone lying to Feyre- just goes to show how everyone in her life failed her once more. Other then Rhys: She isn’t anyones first choice. Her friends not telling the truth- imo undermined their friendship in acomaf/acowar making it now seem fake.

Anyone that says Az *just* lusts for Elain, read acosf & is now scared that future couples will be reduced as characters who only want to do each other. The claim comes from Azriel’s bonus - idk if you’ve read it - but everyone’s clutching their pearls bcs “oooh the absolute horror of Az wanting Elain! How dare he!” Its an NA explicit novel. Idk what the fuss is about. Denial ig. I think Luciens in the background bcs he isn’t important to the current subplots. Personally I think he will get his novella but that is a long way away so for now he’s in the background- not forgotten just not integral.

In the end, I feel like Sjm struggled with getting everything - from Nessians relationship, too “redeeming” Nesta and the little plot SF had - going. She struggled w catalysing it all. Lets all just pray future books go better.

[freyjas-musings]

so i keep seeing e/riels saying that they want a romance that triumphs the mating bond and i have few problems w that

for az & elains romance story to trumps the matin bond, azriel shouldnt have to believe that the cauldron was wrong. his idea of love IS his mate. he thought mor was his mate for 500 yrs & now all of a sudden, his brothers are w the 2 archeron sisters & theres a 3rd one so ofc hes gonna jump ship & think she’s his mate when mor cont rejected him throughout the yrs (i def think he wouldve never even thought of elain if mor given him a chance). so i think the bonus chpt kind of crushed that “romance trumps mating bond” bc if thats how it started, w him thinking elain is his mate or that the cauldron is wrong, then idk how that would work if u want to discredit the mating bond

not to say there isnt failed pairs, but we’re talking about main characters here. why would sjm write failed pairs w mcs when she loves the idea of 2 ppl being made exactly for one another. also the idea of mates is not only romantic but its also powerful imo- 2 ppl that are exactly equal to one another in both power & title. idk how azriel could ever treat elain as his equal when he is so overprotective of her to the point where he’s almost diminishing her strenggh in acosf. even amren had to say “dont underestimate her”

and also elain- if she wanted to be w azriel, she can just reject lucien, which he has already said in acowar that he would let her go if she was happier w someone one else. BUT SHE STILL HAS NOT DONE THAT. this story could easily be resolved w just that mating bond being rejected alas, we’re here theorizing about forbidden romance & evil lightsingers & “random redheads who r also red herrings to the superior elain and az’s love story”. to me, the e/riel story is so simple. nothing is complicated if she just rejects the bond.

i think the perfect romance story for azriel is for him to fall in love w someone and not even think of the mating bond but then later on finds out that that person is his mate. i think he needs to accept & learn what true love is first before the mating bond can snap for him.

Hi Anon ,

I agree with all the points you have made and logically at this stage it won't be rejecting one bond but two pairs of mates and I simply don't see sjm doing that at all. As far as the other side is concerned they have been so hell bent on refuting Gywn and Az are most likely mates because they know it was game over for Elriel the minute the bonus was released.

There is literally no way anyone will be convinced about Gwyn and Lucien being rejected without a proper reason and that's the thing , this is a fictional story ... SJM could have shown a deterioration in the equation between elain and Lucien but they remain stagnant instead ... meaning it's not still time for their story.

The thing about Elain and Az .... we clearly know Azriel's feelings weren't that deep. We know he hadn't planned past pleasuring himself to the fantasies ... now that in itself spells doom. And this isn't about who is more deserving or anything it's just a clear case of two people with a toxic equation ... neither of them is undeserving of love or healing ...

The fact remains they are just not good for each other . They are NOT how SJM writes her couples .

They will each get their own story and HEA. I see a lot of people adding a healthy dose of ego into it about wanting Elain to reject Az ... but its really not an ego thing ... yes Az rejected her first ... she also gave back the necklace and rejected him back ... I need people to just stop self inserting and acting like jilted girlfriends being bitter about Azriel... its most likely he will get his story and HEA first and That is OK.

[starsreminisce]

Your latest post 👏 👏

When Azriel presented the necklace to Elain he didn’t once think about how she would feel about the necklace, unlike later on in the bc with a certain priestess (whom he barely knows as ppl like to point out). If he’s known Elain for soo long, shouldn’t he at least wonder about her? Not her bond, but her. Ppl are giving Azriel too much credit for his feelings towards Elain.

HOFAS SPOILER-ISH

At this point, Azriel has shown more care (outwardly) towards Nesta than he ever has for Elain. You can’t just say this dude keeps everything internal when he has literally shown us readers what he does for those he cares for (i.e. Nesta in HOFAS).

I wanted to finish HOFAS before I answered this, but absolutely, people give Azriel too much credit towards his feelings towards Elain, and more importantly, he doesn't consider Elain's feelings in SF, and we are told in the ways that he doesn't.

Elriels like to push for choice and how Elain will choose Az, but Az has never given her the space to make that choice, even back when Az gave Elain Truth-Teller and her face turned white about the idea of being armed. It's frustrating how supportive he is towards Feyre wanting to learn how to fly, Nesta over keeping her weapons, a bunch of priestesses with varying states of trauma to learn how to defend themselves, and most importantly, Gwyn with wanting to learn more about daggers and spywork.

Did Az consider how Nesta's actions were hurting Elain, especially considering how close they were? Did Az consider how her bond is affecting her, not trying to figure out why she has not made a decision yet? Did Az consider that Elain wants to do more for the IC but makes the argument that she shouldn't be exposed to that darkness and yet Nesta, who was visibly shaken from the idea, should? Did Az consider that she did like him over her own mate to push past his own feelings to be close to her?

Elriels keep saying that Elain has no one to confide in, so she's close to Nuala and Cerridwen but not close enough that she can express this to. Azriel could have been that person, and yet we were told that Azriel keeps away from her, and he left thinking that it was the right thing that he did.

No mate can keep away from their counterpart for long, and the only reason why they did is because their mates wanted them to. Rhys stepped aside because Feyre wanted to marry Tamlin. Cassian barely spoke to Nesta for nine months up until the intervention because Nesta made it clear she wanted nothing to do with him. Lucien moved to the human lands to give Elain space, and we don't even see him force himself onto her.

Az's reasons are because that's what he felt is best for him when Elain wants the complete opposite, and Elain understood that she will never be what he actually wants - a mate - and expressed that by returning the necklace, effectively closing the door to the idea they can be something more.

Not only that, but she chose not to explore her skills of wielding a weapon by returning Truth-Teller.

Azriel left thinking he was proven right, not that he will prove Rhys wrong. Azriel tells Bryce tightly no he doesn't have a mate, not arrogantly that he doesn't need one.

So I really don't understand how half of his BC, where it's canon that his feelings for Elain are mutual, while simultaneously ignoring that he had absolutely no intention of pursuing it. Even with Elain's offer and permission and his delayed reaction, he stuck by that decision.

Elain can choose Az, but I don't think, given what we have, Az will make that same choice when it comes down to it. And Elain is aware of this, so she already chose between Azriel and Lucien in the bonus chapter when we were explicitly told she returned the necklace.

Her choosing not to reject the bond is still her choosing Lucien over Azriel, and Azriel has not given her any confidence that rejecting the bond to be with him is a good decision, especially when he called it a mistake.

[lovemyromance]

So... Azriel saving Elain is just because he *checks notes* has a savior complex...?

But Azriel saving Gwyn from SA is NOT his savior complex because of *checks notes*....sparky sparky glow glow?

Like I hate to break it to y'all, but Azriel was quite literally doing his job when he went to Sangravah to hunt after the men who were trying to steal the Cauldron leg.

He didn't "go there because he sensed his mate was in danger". He went there on an order to investigate the raid on the temple in Sangravah.

That is where he found Gwyn, and saved her. As he should have. As any good person would've. Then, he handed her off to Mor, and chased after the men from Hybern.

Males are protective over their mates. Rhys couldn't stand to see how Feyre was unhappy and Cassian couldn't handle Nesta being taken for the BR. Even Lucien had an urge to help Elain when she was spat out of the Cauldron.

You can't stay away from your mate, especially if they're in grave danger. That much is EVIDENT.

And yet, Azriel has known Gwyn for years now. He encountered her at a traumatic moment, and he saved her - then he left.

He had a whole conversation with Gwyn in the BC (from his POV!) and doesn't mention anything about talking to her or checking up on her after one of the worst days of her life. All he recalls is "the bloody memory of her was so at odds with the Gwyn that stood before him now".

Does that sound like someone who checked up on her in the past 2 years?

Then, even after the BC and the *so called mate behavior of sparky sparky glow glow* , Gwyn gets taken for the BR. Again, Azriel has an opportunity to descend into fae male protective insects and exhibit the same behavior as Cassian's freak out about Nesta being taken.

But he doesn't.

He doesn't demand to go after Gwyn. He doesn't respect Illyria anyways, and thinks the entire culture is backwards. Why would he respect the rules of the BR? Gwyn gets taken into a life-threatening situation (AGAIN) and all he says is "we trained them well".

What kind of mate behavior is that?

Genuinely, how could that be Gwyn's mate? He's not out here going out of his mind and saying "I'm getting her back".

Well, not over Gwyn, that is.

He does exhibit those mate characteristics - but around Elain.

The exact same situation Gwynriels romanticize and distort and have headcanons around ... has already been written. With Azriel. And with Elain.

face the facts. Canon is canon, babes. And that's not going to change just because you twist and distort the interpretations in your head.

[sunshinebingo]

What's your main ship - Gwynriel/Elucien

Moment you shipped them ?

3 reasons you ship them?

What is the one thing you want to see in their book?

Gwynriel is my favourite ship, all fandoms included. That being said, I'm a Gwyn fan 1st and a Gwynriel 2nd.

Every moment they shared in acosf made me squint my eyes and go "hmm I spy a little something going on here". Whatever these early signs mean, I'm in. That feeling grew bigger with each one of their interaction I read. By the end of acosf I was already aboard their ship. Then many months later I learned about the BC. Read it, loved it, shipped it even harder!

I love their individual characters and their individual stories. Since acotar is a romantasy, it's highly possible that everyone will end up with a LI, especially those who have such a central role in the story. And if both Gwyn and Azriel are to find their other half at some point, I think they could be a perfect match. Which leads me to the 3 reasons you asked for dear anon...

1. Although their past experiences are different, I think there are similarities they share in terms of feelings and goals (rooted in the past and about their present self). Both have displayed their willingness to put others before themselves which, although is heroic and beautiful in the lengths they are going to go to protect those they love, can be heartbreaking for themselves in the sense that they believe themselves to be less worthy (1 proof being the guilt they feel when thinking that they failed at protecting/loving). I think together they can walk a path towards healing that works both for their individual selves and as a pair

2. Their potential... The banter, the competitiveness, any conversation they might have - whether it takes a deep dive into their trauma or trying to prove who can beat who at what. Gwynriel imo can serve angst and fluff and fun (and something that's also smoking hot 🔥). Let's not forget about the shadows who seem to love her. Imagine what Gwyn and them can get up to 😌

3. Their aesthetic... The shadow boy and the girl who glows, 2 singers who need therapy and someone to sing their insomniac ass to sleep, dark haired broody boy who glances at his redhead sunshine girl giggling and squealing, 2 strong carynthians who are stubborn and determined once they set their minds on something, etc etc

I don't think I can pinpoint a single exact thing that I want to see in their book. I'm just excited to see their relationship progress and all the things they will get up to. I want their book to rip my heart out and put it back in. I want to see more of the Valkyries. I want Gwyn and Az to recognise their worth and find their happiness, both in themselves and with each other

Have I talked too much?? 😅 Thank you so much anon!

[goldenivy0]

SOME e/riels every time Gwyn had any type of interaction with Azriel while training, when SJM retconned the whole Sangravah plot so they could have a past history together or when they had half a BC together where something in his chest sparked because of her:

They're right, Gwyneth Berdara is out of this world 😌 Love her.

[stargirlie25]

Honestly Nesta haters baffle me. Its like the person who this is on crack:

Imo Nesta and cassian were better off without each other. Sjm had to murder cassian's whole personality for nesta to shine which is why I'll always hate nessian. I'll always mourn trilogy cassian and the potential he had

Nesta would've been interesting if sjm actually knew how to write her and had any idea what to do with her in the series.

Same anon same! That friendship is so embarrassingly childish like idk but it's straight out of some highschool bs. Sjm tried to give nesta a found family like feyre had in MAF but failed.

Feysand and elriel are all that matter to me and the only reason why I even care about this series. Feysand are the heart of acotar so long as you love them you're stuck here lol

Like the whole cass does not deserve nesta or vice versa is so annoying. They love each other and wanted each other from the very first moment they met. They would hate anybody who stans one but hates the other.

Like what do you even mean sjm should have wrote nesta differently?SJM relates to Nestas character along with Aelin so much. She can alter her actual life and past events to change nestas character. So many people relate to nesta and its a real thing.

´´That friendship is so embarrassingly childish´´- How can someone be this horrible of a person. These are 3 women who simply are healing together and are having fun for the first times in their lives. They have no got the chance to actually attempt a friendship. So if its childish,goofy,dorky or nerdy thats exactly what real friendships are idoit!!!! If anything its more realistic then feyres beautiful found family.

Nesta,Gwyn,Emerie would DIE for eachother. They have fought for each other so hard.

Meanwhile feyres:

They all hid the fact that she was Rhysands mate for months even though there her perfect found family

Mor blames her for not ´´checking in´´ for something that is feyres choice and throwing all the higlady bs at feyre.

As much as feyre tells them not to, half of them always put down her sister disrespecting what feyre wants

And the grandest of them all, they hid her birth issues.

They say shes a highlady but that respect only goes for the highlord. Even if not, feyres found family would not even tell her out of respect.

Honestly the IC does have cute moments and honestly im not a full time IC hater. I don´t care about them. I honestly think antis just doesn´t want Nesta to have a found family. Feyre and Elain can for sure but not Nesta? You just did not want Nesta to find friends. Even if the relationship was like the ic (thank god it isnt) you would still be pressed bc ur a loser hater.

[nikethestatue]

I finished ACOSF a few months ago and seeing this fandom has been so confusing to say the very least. Nesta is my favorite character and I loved the Valkyries but .... I just don't see this Gwynriel ship happening. I think they'd be cute together and I wouldn't be opposed to it obviously - but I just don't see it happening given where we left off in ACOSF. I also am confused about the personality difference in Gwyn & Elain and Azriel.

Gwyn didn't even kill anyone in the BR and was knocked out and carried to the top - so why are people acting like she is some great warrior and will destroy legions of armies and lead the Illyrians into war!? She saw a mini Pegasus at a sleepover and through it was cute and now all of a sudden people think she's going to ride one in the skies while she paints Prythian with the blood of her enemies? What enemies even?? She's not tied to any of the IC's plot?

Elain didn't really stand out to me in ACOSF, which makes sense because it was NESTA's story. I didn't really have an opinion on her and Azriel or her and Lucien. I get that Lucien makes her uncomfortable but SJM writes her pairings that way it seems so I could see them ending up together tbh. But then I read the BC and - wtf ?? I am firmly team Elriel now because what do you mean Azriel's out here dreaming about how elain TASTES . I see you freaky azriel 👀 goddamn I Definitely was not expecting that from him but now that I have seen it I can't go back. There's no way SJM wrote that and plans on making Elain then end up with Lucien. Like I thought it would be fine but after that BC - there's no going back.

Either way - it's weird that people have such a strong opinion on Azriel and Elain because I think combined, they've said maybe like 200 words total? I like the idea of them but we dont know much about them? Why are people forming such harsh steadfast opinions on what either of them want or need or desire when we don't know much of anything? They're both kind of mysterious.

Idk I feel like I just missed a book with how strongly everyone is arguing about these guys.

Elain - had some badass moments but barely mentioned on the page in ACOSF

Azriel - even more mysterious than Elain but the dry humor makes up for it.

Lucien - he's not been in the past 2 books?

Gwyn - is great but not the Aelin type of warrior people online are making her out to be

Where is all this coming from I am very confused??

Honestly, most of this is coming from TikTok, Headcanons and fan art on Insta.

You have NO IDEA how many asks i've received over the years with people saying the same thing 'i saw so many Gwynriel arts on Insta and I thought that there will be some amazing romance in ACOSF. THEN, I read the book. And I kept waiting for something to happen and nothing ever did."

I think the key word for a lot of GAs is 'then'--they first saw the art, watched the tiktoks, got themselves all jacked up on theories and headcanons, and then, THEN they read the book. So now, the problem is that they have a hard time separating reality/canon from all that stuff that brought them to the fandom in the first place.

They are digging their heels and arguing that it WILL HAPPEN!!! absolutely will. Gwyn will become a great warrior and will ride a Pegasus into battles. Azriel will fall madly in love with her. They'll have kinky sex and she'll 'heal' him.

ALL of it comes from fan art. Literally, look at 99% of Gwynriel fan art and it's all 'fake'--imagined scenes that never happened.

I think many of them either left the fandom or can't accept that they've been duped and are incorrect in their assumptions.

It will be interesting to see what the fallout will be once the book is released.