#baeddel-txt

[euniexenoblade]

Are the screenshots on the baeddel-txt real? They do seem extreme, but it's also obvious it wasn't that popular of a movement. You've said you knew some baeddels from that time, so I wanted to ask if those screenshots reflect that community

I mean, idk, it has hundreds of screenshots and idk who you're referring to. What I can say is it's a misleading blog. It'll have a legit baeddel post, whether you think it's bad or not, and then next will just be a screenshot from 2019 of a trans woman talking about how she's getting harassed, followed by a literal terf's post that hates trans people and hates the baeddels. It exists as propaganda. There are nuggets of real, but those bits of real are meant to make lies and bullshit seem real.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if the baeddels were good or bad. They're gone. They disappeared. Their ideology is gone. "Baeddel" transformed into a slur against trans women, and terfs and lesbophobes have created this ideology meant to sucker transmascs into bio essentialist terf ideals and transmisogyny. Stop looking at propaganda.

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

former baeddels: we cyberbullied transmascs and any transfem who didn’t join us and defended a literal rapist. extremely fucked up group. it was horrible for everyone and i feel awful about the shit that went down then

baby trans just discovering the internet: i think i could make radical feminism good this time

[marxism-leninism-meowism]

btw if you have baeddel in your username I Am Going To Block You i do not give the slightest bit of a shit if it's "ironic" or "just a joke"

[mewhenimnormal]

oh hey I found out I've been blocked by spacelazarwolf and transandrophobia-archive (and baeddel-txt, though I already knew about that one).

I am kinda surprised by this, ngl. this blog is fucking tiny and I've only made a handful of original posts (i.e. ones that would show up in the tags). I don't use the tag 'transandrophobia' or anything, and I also never reblogged from spacelazarwolf, transandrophobia-archive, or baeddel-txt directly.

maybe they've all been scouring the notes of people I have been reblogging from? idk lol

[baeddel-txt]

[capnsoapy]

if transunity et al gets outed as a mumsnet psyop i will not be surprised in the least. :/

[doberbutts]

Okay. So. Longass post while I eat dinner and wait for my controller to charge and then I’m going back to my game.

The problem is it’s never actually been about the word itself.

We tried transandrophobia. Transmisandry. Isomisogyny. Transmascphobia. Anti-transmasculinity. People fought about literally all of them, saying they don’t exist, that they legitimize incel and terf language, that they’re some power grab, that they’re inherently transmisogynistic.

We tried transmisogyny and were told it was just for trans women and that we couldn’t use it.

We tried “transphobia specific to trans mascs”. We were told there is no such thing. That other demographics experience it and thus it’s actually theirs and not ours to discuss. We brought up trans mascs with genders marked M or X being denied abortions, pap smears, and other reproductive care. Trans mascs correctively raped by their significant others and spouses they were forced by their families to marry. Trans mascs who were targeted specifically because they were trans mascs, often buried as women under their dead names to be forever misgendered by history. We were told we were making it up and that we were weaponizing our womanhood by discussing these lived experiences.

We tried “just” misogyny. We were told that as men, we weren’t allowed to say that we experienced misogyny because trans men are men and men never experience misogyny and thus our very real experiences weren’t really ours and they weren’t that bad.

We tried “just” transphobia. We were told that as trans men, we don’t really experience transphobia because any transphobia we do experience is actually transphobia about trans women and thus our very real experiences weren’t really ours and they weren’t that bad.

You don’t have to take my word for it. You can go into the tags of any of those words and see exactly that being discussed in real time right now in 2023. I’ve even got screenshots from @baeddel-txt if you want to give yourself psychic damage by reading truly the worst takes ever from 2014 onwards.

At some point, one has to admit what it’s actually about is stopping trans mascs from discussing the way they’ve been treated by society, and stopping others from considering that maybe the way they’ve been treating us is a problem.

And make no mistake- while some of it is coming from trans fems and it’s impossible to say it’s not, just as there’s shit-flinging in reverse from trans mascs to trans fems as well, because for some reason we prefer to blame each other rather than working together to solve our problems as a collective- if you take a scroll through these tags a lot of it is coming from cis people and fellow trans mascs. A lot of it is coming from other LGBT or otherwise queer-identified people and a lot of it matches previous attempts at killing the ace, bi, and pansexual communities using the same arguments that the internet likes to cycle through every couple of years and has been doing since online communities began to exist.

So, I ask you, if you got through this and still want to write a witty retort, what have you done to help us fix the staggering amounts of suicide, sexual assault, and beatings we face? What have you done to help us fix the staggering amounts of us being denied necessary healthcare? What is your solution to all this, besides to sit at your computer or scroll through your phone and quibble about whether or not the specific word is allowed to be used this week?

[nothorses]

Hello there, I found on my tl this post presenting a different view on "baeddelism" from the perspective of a trans woman that claims that she was actually there when the og group existed and explains why the word has become somewhat of a transmisogynistic slur. And I wanted to ask you If you might have any thoughs on this reading of the subject matter?

www.tumblr.com/euniexenoblade/741692501713387520/anyways-baeddel-is-a-slur-against-trans-women

I mean, I think there's merit to the idea that calling people "baeddels" when they don't actually claim to be one themselves is at best counterproductive. The term refers less to A General Ideology, and more to a very specific movement- or, more accurately, two unrelated-but-similar movements that happened in the early/mid 2010's.

There's a term for what folks are usually talking about when they call some random trans woman a "baeddel" when she says she believes trans men oppress trans women: "TIRF", or trans-inclusionary radical feminist. It's a term that was coined by people who call themselves by it, and it's a lot more broad & generally useful here. It doesn't come with ties to a group that dissolved because of sexual assault allegations & rape apologism, and it isn't rooted in an Old English slur, which means it's a lot less charged. It's less likely to get people to shut down or laugh your whole point off because of how clear it is that you aren't listening to or engaging in anything they have to say with good faith.

So yes, I agree, calling random people "baeddels" is not in good taste. Don't do it. "TIRF" exists, it's more accurate, and it's less likely to hurt your argument anyway.

That said.

I take issue with the implication that:

a) Baeddels were tiny and utterly non-influential (therefore all references to them at this point are malicious exaggerations and bogeymen), and

b) Everyone self-describing as a "baeddel" today is actually just reclaiming a slur, exactly like people do with "tranny" and "faggot".

Baeddels (on Tumblr; again, there was a "baeddel" movement on Facebook at the time as well, but it was unrelated and ideologically distinct) were not so small that they had no impact, and to characterize them as widely unpopular- or, worse, influential only in that everyone hated them so much that alt-right bigots immediately revived "baeddel"s original meaning as a slur to in order to victimize all trans women- should immediately ping some alarm bells.

Baeddelism's core ideology centered around the idea that trans women are the most oppressed group, that transmisogyny is the root of all oppression, that trans women are always victimized, never safe, never understood, except around and by exclusively other trans women. This sucks, because there is very real oppression and trauma being preyed on here; trans women are encouraged to be paranoid and distrustful of anyone different from them, and their own experiences with oppression are weaponized against them in order to do so. This should remind you of the recruitment tactics cis radfems use.

That aside, there are some places where baeddelism's influence has been documented: @baeddel-txt is one example. Note that a lot of the posts archived there are recent. Here's one of the original crew, still active and spewing the same shit. Baeddelism has been experiencing something of a renaissance in recent years, too. Here's one of the original (ex-)baeddels talking about it as recently as 2021.

This is not "reclaiming a slur", these people are referring very explicitly to the original ideology & the desire, or observed desire, for that same movement to be brought back in the present day.

Does that make every TIRF-y trans woman a baeddel?

No!

But it is incredibly, and suspiciously disingenuous to deny the harm they caused, the influence they had, and the admiration people still hold for their ideology. And it is downright ahistorical to claim that the term is now, or was at the time that the group was most popular, used genuinely as a slur (sources, I am begging you).

Do not call people "baeddels" unless they're claiming the word for themselves. Do not allow anyone to make you think, even for a moment, that transfeminine people are The Enemy; they do not oppress us, they do not benefit from our oppression, and the vast majority of them are not interested in any kind of lateral violence against us in the first place. They are our allies. Do not forget that they are our allies.

Forgetting that trans people are each other's best allies is what lead to baeddelism in the first place. We need each other. Things can only improve for any of us if we fight for each other. Don't let resentment sabotage you- or hurt our trans siblings.

[lathiat]

they blocked anybody who pointed out the baeddel thing ... sad

op of that post blocked me..... rip

[genderkoolaid]

i wish i could send screenshots but i blocked everyone involved to get rhe stupid post off my dash but i saw a post that was like "hey its ok for trans women to just look like men" and then in the comments was some transandrophobe being like "yeah trans men get such a pass to look however they want even if they cant be bothered to bind ppl treat them like men all the time but trans women will get killed if we arent dressed to the nines" and someone was like hey this is wrong? and then even when OP finally stepped into say it was wrong for the one commenter to put down trans men she STILL SAID that the trans guy defending himself in the comments was in the wrong for "making it about trans men" when he was literally just trying to defend us. it made me so mad. "cant be bothered to bind" has been like a ping pong ball stuck in my head all night because of that post. cant be fucking bothered to bind like im just being too lazy abt it and not like fat or disabled or too poor to afford a quality binder lmao cant be bothered. good fucking grief.

Yeah jfc

Again like I have no doubt a lot of times this comes from real frustration and hurt but like good God. these people really have so much ingrained hatred for trans men they refuse to recognize. like not only is "can't be bothered to bind" so fucking insensitive. but also the idea that trans men who look like cis women are treated like cis men????

like not saying said person is aligned with baeddel beliefs but i was checking out @baeddel-txt a day ago and it just reminds me of how folks who follow that ideology truly concocted this fantasy world where cis society kisses the ground trans men walk on and trans men are "male classed" by virtue of identifying as men. like so extremely dissociated from the lived experiences of non passing trans men. people will jump through every hoop in the circus to avoid saying that trans men just might experience misogyny on occasion

[whitehairedanimeboyfriend]

For the anons that I've been getting recently here's some screenshots collected by @baeddel-txt to illustrate the issue of trans men being thrown under the bus has been happening for years.

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

Why do you believe transandrophobia exists

Because I’ve faced it.

I was there when the Baeddelism “movement” took Tumblr by storm. I didn’t have an online presence then, but I watched it all happen from the outside. If you want more information on Baeddelism I recommend checking out @/baeddel-txt for both testimonies from former members and many, many examples of the harassment they perpetuated.

The whole “transandrophobia doesn’t exist bc nobody hates masculinity” is bullshit. Talk to ANY butch lesbian ever. Talk to ANY black man ever. If you belong to a minority, your masculinity is a threat. It’s dangerous. It’s used against you.

The “transandrophobia implies ‘androphobia’ exists!” is also bullshit, because we’ve changed it so many times and yet it’s never good enough for people. Even saying “anti-transmasculinity” gets you shit. Hell, that post I made where I didn’t even use the word “transandrophobia”, just “transphobia against trans men”, got me an angry anon calling me a horrible transmisogynist.

Also, it’s a combination of “trans” + “andro” + “phobia”, not “trans” + “androphobia”.

Even if this isn’t all enough for you, you have to acknowledge that discrimination among minorities does very among gender because the patriarchy effects everything.

Conclusion is that discrimination doesn’t follow “rules”.

Real life experiences are more creditable than your “rules”.

[t4t4t]

Transmasc t(w)erf reblogging directly from baeddel-txt...

[mewhenimnormal]

I checked and they've definitely blocked me

lol

baeddel-txt is still here lmfao

my mistake, their blog says that they've deactivated whenever I click on it but if I go to baeddel-txt.tumblr.com, they're still there

I mostly navigate to blogs via my dash so uh. yeah

is this a glitch or did they block me lmao

[velvetvexations]

"attempts to emulate trans women and therefore appropriation and transmisogyny" (quoting another anon) yeah I think I've seen the take that using a strap is transmisogyny and appropriation (baeddel-txt has it I think?)

That's really, really stupid. Also not farfetched from what I feel would get thrown at transmascs these days. The more things change.

[vaspider]

I believe that the archive anon is talking about is either baeddel-txt or transandrophobia-archive, both accounts on this platform that screenshot examples of shitty behavior.

Yeah, so, presenting "vague concerns" with nothing actionable in a way that a) makes me responsible for the actions of others and b) doesn't give me anything to go on is just concern trolling, which is why I said the conversation is over.

If people want to talk about specific concerns, fine. Bring me specific concerns about things I've interacted with. But this? This amounts to "oooh you better be caaaareful or you might be baaaad!" & I'm too fucking old for that shit.

Reblogs are deliberately turned off. Nobody send me asks or comment or anything unless there are specific, actionable things to deal with. (And if the 'things to deal with' come down to 'I think it's bad to point out trans people being shitty or saying radfem things' then just save it.)