#azula is a colonizing imperialist

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

He would have rejected the result and gone after Azula again with Katara's help, and it would have been the right and honorable thing to do. In order for the war to end with as little bloodshed as possible, Ozai and Azula had to be removed from power. Hence, why Iroh told Zuko to confront Azula with Katara during Sozin's Comet. And hence, why Zuko agreed to an Agni Kai with Azula after he sussed out she was far from her A-game; him defeating her in an Agni Kai would give his regime much needed legitimacy in the eyes of his people.

Also, Azula was a leading agent and second-in-command of a genocidal, colonizing empire, and would have continued helping Ozai waging the war if she ascended to the throne. A key part of Zuko's arc is learning and internalizing that the Hundred Year War-era Fire Nation's morals and sense of honor are all wrong. So, Zuko playing fair, instead of doing everything in his power to remove her from power, would have been immoral, highly dishonorable, and a disservice to his character.

Would Zuko have honored the result if Azula had clearly and unambiguously beat him in the Final Agni Kai?

Agni Kai's are fought until one contestant burns or kills the other. That raises the question. What if Azula's day was going a little better during Sozin's Comet, and she clearly, unambiguously, and completely fairly overpowered or outskilled Zuko and burned him without killing him? And then told him to accept the result?

Would Zuko have accepted the result? Would he have gone up to Katara and said "well, Azula won the duel and now I have to accept she's Firelord. We lost. Time to go home." Or would he have rejected this result and gone after Azula again, likely with Katara's help? After losing the duel, would he have tried again but this time with no pesky rules getting in his way?

Please reblog for more votes! And put your thoughts in the tags, if you have any.

[soosth]

AANG ＆ OZAI PARALLELS: DEBUNKED

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Because apparently the true villain is the sole survivor of a genocide of his entire nation, and not the imperialist colonizer.

Where do I even begin?? Because I’m genuinely holding in laughter writing this, it’s absolutely insane how certain people can make such egregious parallels that aren’t even found in the first place. 

AH, so a little backstory on how this fucking shit stained idea even came to existence, well our dear z^tara fans pissed their pants over Zuko and Katara not tying the knot, so, as a way of retribution for their supposed “honour” They take any chance to jump on the Aang hate train and make him into some irredeemable abusive demon, aaand they got that perfect opportunity because the LoK decided to take a lick out of the great “Main Characters Must Be Bad Parents In The Sequels” Trope. Which personally, does absolutely nothing to the protagonists resolution aside from cheap family drama but I digress. 

Now, I’m not behind the idea of the writers trying to make Aang a “flawed” Parent, I think it really makes no sense by how they went about it, (I might touch on this in another post) 

((And it’s so very clear that they’re trying to give it a soft “retcon” And even taking extra steps saying that Kya and Bumi just “remember wrong” Which I’ll actually take, because season two of LOK was hell on earth anyway so you might as well give it some saving grace.)) 

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There’s three main parallels that they got from Ozai and Aang: (god help me)

Favouring a child

isolating the rest

leaving pressure On the golden child

I’m going to debunk all three of them while trying not to fall into complete lunacy over how ridiculous they are. 

Favouring a child + Leaving pressure: 

OK, so people are clearly blind with context clues and media comprehension, got it. No surprise whatsoever. I can’t be disappointed if I didn’t even have any expectations to begin with. 

Let’s compare the treatment on how Ozai treats Azula, and how Aang treats Tenzin. (Holy Shit)

Beginning with Ozai, well.. It doesn’t take much of a rocket scientist to understand that Ozai essentially could not give two fucks about Azula, as she in essence, serves the role of an attack dog, as long as it does its job, it’s worthy. 

Ozai favoured Azula because she was molded to match his ferocity and hunger for power, she was a prodigy bender, and was cunning and calculated, all traits that Ozai found endearing and someone worthy to be crowned the next “fire lord.” His “favouring” Of her didn’t come out of genuine love or care, she is his tool who serves a purpose. In short, she showed more competency and more ruthlessness and callousness in comparison to Zuko. Which earned her, her place as the “Golden Child.”  

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None of this is even remotely similar to how Aang treated Tenzin and his kids, aside from the fact he supposedly “favoured” Tenzin more, but that is such a baseline statement and has absolutely no relation with Ozai's reasons.

You have to understand that an entire FUCKING NATION IS DEAD. History, Culture, Tradition, is at the BRINK of being wiped out, Tenzin is quite literally the only Airbender that will be left after Aangs passing. Why do people devalue this concept so much? 

“B-BUT THE AIR ACOLYTES1!!” Still have limited knowledge, airbending is so heavily tied to its spiritual roots, you LOSE your ability to AIRBEND, if you aren't inclined to your spiritual side. Which is a core part of the air nomad culture. Tenzin is... Literally the only god forsaken part left of that, so yeah. It’s a pretty big fucking deal. Aang values his culture and teachings to such a high degree, he is literally the survivor of a genocide. His favouring of Tenzin was done out of necessity and love, not out of a need for power and a new attack dog to send orders around. 

Tenzin will literally be the future “Director” Or guide for the next avatar to learn airbending, people still forget this, and it’s hilarious. He needs to know all the moves, all the teachings because he will be the next avatar's personal guide. 

Aang constantly reassures him, and apologizes for the pressure that may be put upon him but he always reaffirms that he’ll be there to guide him and they’ll “learn together”

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So yeah not the same thing at all. Fuck you for being so inept at understanding the different reasons and perspectives of those situations, just for some petty ship discourse, genuinely disgusting.

Isolating the children:

OK this part, I have to say that the writers definitely messed up with aangs characterization, but I think the execution came out way differently than the intention, so I will try to look more into the intention of each decision.

Ozai isolated Zuko, mistreated him, belittled him, PHYSICALLY ABUSED HIM, but yeah totally on par with Aang actually. 

I don’t wanna touch on this part much mainly because his treatment was literally explained all throughout the show, and granted, while I understand most of these people haven’t touched the show aside from reading fanfic 300000 Where Aang is revealed to us as satan himself, but perhaps, even a small peak at Ozai's parenting would reveal the laughable contrast between the two.

Zuko was a slow learner, and much more of a softie, and a “mama's boy” To Ozai’s heavy dislike, he was thus treated as such, he was belittled, turned down, and literally burnt alive for showing “weakness” He is meant to serve as a direct contrast to Azula, ”The everything he isn't.” 

Kya and Bumi on the other hand, don’t show any actual signs of trauma aside from some petty jabs they threw at Tenzin, 

Bumis talk with Aang at the statue was *very very* Clearly, meant to highlight his own inferiority complex that he internalized growing up. His need for proving himself to be capable of doing just as much if not more than a “bender” Probably happened because his two parents were both prodigy benders and him being a first born son who was a non-bender must’ve hit pretty hard for him, and I’m so sure that katara and Aang reassured how special he is but that kind of thing doesn’t really go away.

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Kya: [while healing Bumi] I told you those rocks were slippery. You're lucky you didn't kill yourself.

Bumi: You done with the lecture, mom?

Kya: Oh, grow up. You haven't changed one bit since we were kids. You're still trying to prove you can do everything a bender can. Well, you can't. Deal with it.

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 That talk with Aangs statue was very much meant to unveil an internal struggle rather than a conflict he had with his father. Kya even doubles down on this, telling him “of course he’d be proud of you” Basically spoon feeding to us, the viewers, that this is much more of internal than an external conflict that he has to overcome along the show. 

“Why Didn’t he share his culture with them 1!!1!” 

He most definitely did, or tried to, but it’s clear they didn’t show much interest so he didn’t pester, this is shown many times throughout the show. 

“You know I could never keep all those gurus straight… There were like a million of them!

remember that long boring story about the guy who never ate?”

This is literally Kya’s remark to Tenzin just after he tried teaching the airbender students this story, basically telling us that Aang DID try to tell them about his stories and culture, but much to their disinterest, didn’t try any further. 

And Bumi, literally could not pay attention to the story to save his life, and instead decided to fool around in his literal 60’s!! I mean Imagine what he was like when he was a kid!! 

I could imagine their dynamic was very similar to Jinora with Meelo and Ikki, Tenzin being the only one with actual interest and care, whilst Bumi and Kya goofing off and not putting much focus onto it. WHICH IS FINE BTW!! 

It only goes to reiterate that Tenzin was the only one who was actually giving interest and attention to the air nomad culture, and it was of Kya and Bumi’s own personal choice to not partake in it. To each their own I see. 

“BUT WHAT ABOUT THE VACATIONS” 

This.. I agree, weird for the writers to decide this, but given how they low-key are retconning it in interviews, my best guess is that each of those trips were side-quests during their journey to teach an important lesson that might’ve just drowned out because Tenzin may not have remembered it as well. 

Also keep in mind that Tenzin was put into a lot of pressure, Aang probably saw this, and as a way to still keep it enjoyable, he took him to trips that would help ease the mind for a little kid whilst also learning something valuable. That seems pretty on brand for Aang actually

And given that Kya and Bumi are literally in their fucking 60’s it wouldn’t surprised me if they didn’t have the greatest memory. Hell, they didn’t even fault Aang as a parent until Tenzin started boasting about “trips” That Kya and Bumi gave petty jabs but weren’t actually showing genuine hurt, just annoyance.

Kya even comments how Aang was too busy “Trying to save the world, and doing his duty that he didn't have much time for them” 

Phrasing as if it wasn't anything "important" But it's clear that this was Kya's own personal irritation towards Tenzin rather than an actual evaluation on Aang's duties.

A continuation comic best explains it in a deeper way:

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Literally showing that “neglecting” His kids wasn't up to him, and was out of a sense of necessity, trying to cram as much knowledge onto Tenzin, the only one who was basically putting his lessons into practices. Kya and Bumi were left feeling neglected. But that wasn’t out of his decision; he still loved them dearly.

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This. Literally highlighting how much pressure was forced upon Aang, so yes, as any person would, he struggled with making time for everybody. Holy shit who knew?? 

GASP!! IS THAT… A REALISTIC BUT UNDERSTANDABLE FLAW!!?? HOW DARE YOU! ITS OZAI #2 

The fact that the smiley energetic person forgets to SMILE, is a big deal, man was put through hells amount of stress but he never cracked.

So tell me, how is a genocidal freak, who treats his golden child like a tool and abuses the other both physically and emotionally for showing “weakness’ 

Even remotely comparable to

 the sole survivor of a genocide, trying to withhold his teachings and culture onto literally his only child that showed actual effort in doing so, while also maintaining the balance of an entire fucking world and being literally the biggest “advisor” And “Mentor” For society, OH! And also building and managing a literal city, but along the way struggling to make time for his children. 

Guess what, they’re not. And if you think they are. You are an idiot, with bias and headcanons.

So the conclusion is, Aang is a flawed parent, but he isn't a "bad" Parent - confirmed by the literal writers.

Comparing him to Ozai a literal dictator, is absolutely sickening, just for your petty shipping discourse when this show's been over for a decade is insane. Indulge in what you enjoy, but stop projecting delusions like they're canon.

:D

[phoenix-king-ozai]

Short Review of NATLA!

The main cast cooked! All the characters were very good. However, Zhao, Aang, Sokka, Katara killed it in the finale! Iroh, Ozai, Zuko, and Azula were amazing! I'm actually proud Azula stood up to Ozai and Ozai was proud of Azula as well. That was another test. A dragon is not a slave. Not even to the Fire Lord. Azula has to prove and stand up for herself. Along with having the power to back it up as well! I’m just extremely glad that the showrunners know the character’s motivations and personal heritage of Sozin’s imperialistic legacy caused Ozai and Azula’s ideology. Due to the Fire Nation's imperialism through conquest and colonization. Which is inspired by real-life influences from Imperial Japan and the Mongol Empire.

I glad that despite Zuko fighting back in the Agni Kai in Episode 6: Mask of NATLA. That the showrunners stayed true to the characters: Ozai and Zuko along with the themes of the Agni Kai. I’m also glad that they didn't make Ozai have a favored child. Ozai wants Zuko and Azula to both prove themselves. Ozai doesn't favor Zuko or Azula. It is about which child will succeed Sozin, Azulon, and his legacy as future Fire Lord. In fact, Ozai doesn't want Zuko or Azula to think that they are the “favorite” child. He wants Azula and Zuko to improve through competition. Because of “steel sharpen steel” mentality. Ozai has the mentality of an imperialist warlord. I think Ozai, Zuko, Iroh and Azula’s characterization were well done and faithful! General Iroh being confronted by an Earth Kingdom soldier that lost his brother over the Seige of Ba Sing Se and tied to his grief of Lu Ten’s death was amazing. I was also very happy with how they dealt with Koh and Gyatso. The Mother of Faces reference was pretty cool and Gyatso and Aang bonding and reconciliation with the air nomad genocide not being Aang's fault or burden was very important change to the plot from the original series. Another amazing change was Zuko’s crew being 41st division and that Zuko’s sacrifice saved their lives! OUR PRINCE HAS RETURNED! 🔥💯

Personally, the series is 10/10 for me. However, realistically given some minor flaws and shortcomings regarding the exposition dialogue and inexperience of the young actors and actresses coming into these roles along with some questionable changing decisions. 8.5-9.5 out of 10 is a fair rating.

Phenomenal adaptation with a lot of love, passion, respect and care for the soul of the source material!🔥⚡️💯

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

But you don't understand, the fact that she raised to the perfect weapon for a genocidal, colonizing, imperialist absolute monarchy and suffered from emotional neglect means that she has no agency, and thus is totally absolved of all wrongdoing, both in her personal life and in her capacity as a princess of the Fire Nation./s

In fact, you suggesting that she did anything wrong other than lose and trust the wrong people, let alone suggest that she has to pro-actively unlearn what she taught growing up and make amends if she wants to have the happy life she is entitled too, is abuse apologia./s

My condolences to the azula stans on account of literally every character similar to azula is better written than she is

[juniperhillpatient]

another thing that’s not exactly new from me but — there is simply NO valid (imo) argument that Azula does not work very hard to bring Zuko home with his honor. capturing him as a prisoner would have been quite simple & the audience has no reason to doubt she would do so without hesitation. yet she convinces him that coming home a hero is his redemption. why? the argument that she needs a scapegoat holds no water given - again - she could have used Zuko for that from the start. (that’s given you even belive she KNOWS Aang is alive before the later giveaways from Zuko but we’re not quite there yet)

Azula held all the cards & she chose to give Zuko the opportunity to come home & regain his place as heir to the throne.

and this is NOT an argument that Azuls is secretly heroic or altruistic. I think Azula believes firmly in Fire Nation traditions. I think were Zuko to become heir to the throne & even Firelord eventually - she would gladly serve him & continue to violently colonize the world. Azula believes in her nation’s supremacy & she is an imperialist. this is why she’s a villain - because she was raised with evil beliefs & never given an opportunity to question them & thus reinforces those violent beliefs without question or hesitation. She is also precise & talented in battle & diplomacy making her a dangerous enemy for our heroes.

I do think family is very important to Azula & that Zuko - along with Mai & Ty Lee - is one of the people she remembers regarding as a peer & friend in her childhood & that she wants him home & be by her side not imprisoned. this has always been & continues to be a hill I will die on.

[paragonrobits]

i was thinking about how a lot of the AtLA fandom that is specifically a fandom of the Fire Nation (often of Azula specifically, but also tend to be Zuko fans that dont really engage about how his redemption arc IS a redemption arc and that him having Always Been Good is missing the point of his story) go to some lengths to argue that the Fire Nation is not fascist or a colonizing imperialist nation

its kind of fascinating and an example of how a fandom may come to view a faction or group that serves an antagonistic role be seen as fashionable, powerful and so on, and these parts of fandom gradually go to lengths to downplay their negative traits until by a game of telephone you wind up with people genuinely insisting that 'the nation that's all about conquering and imposing their ways of life on the rest of the world isn't REALLY an imperial nation'

and its a very strange take that's completely divorced from its role in the story of AtLA, because this kind of fandom response has people going 'oh the FN isn't actually an imperialist nation based on real life supremacist ideology, you're grasping at straws to make them look bad' and its usually associated with, say, people trying to argue their fave in the series isn't actually a supremacist or at least a classist despite the character never saying anything to the contrary

and my point is that this is kind of ridiculous because quite literally one of the first things we SEE of the Fire Nation in the series near the beginning of the series that characterizes their actual philosophy in any detail is a Nazi-inspired rally where military officers listen to a speech from Zhao (who comes off as being TYPICAL of FN leadership) about how 'FIRE IS THE SUPERIOR ELEMENT'

supremacist ideology runs deep in the Fire Nation, to the point where the self-serving philsophies they came up with to justify what they do is clearly modeled after the Victorian concept of White Man's Burden (to conquer and, to that mindset, bring enlightenment to others through force) in all its grotesque and condescending feelings of superiority.

Its baked into the Fire Nation's concept during the events of AtLA; pretending that it isn't so you can tout your fave as a Badass Girl Power/Cool Royal Person thing or whatever is so divorced from the series I have to wonder why you even bother caring about the series when the basic premise is 'defeat the Fire Nation because they're evil'

there's also something to say about how Iroh is widely disliked or even outright villified by the parts of fandom most famous for this kind of behavior. Regardless of how much he bought into that ideology, its also very much in the past and he is moving past it for a more cooperation between all nations and righting the wrongs of his ancestors (an act made rather literal when he burns the Fire Nation flag over occupeid Ba Sing Se, revealing the Earth Kingdom insignia it tried to supplant), and its strange how his negative aspects are highlighted by Those fandom people while they treat the Fire Nation loyalists in terms of moral grayness despite... well, them SUPPORTING the supremacist ideology all about conquering the world/burning it to ashes to murder their concept of hope so they can conquer the world

the FN is not morally gray in the slightest. The show is not subtle about it and this fandom gets so fucking WEIRD sometimes

[justanotherthrowaway1950]

Sometimes I think the fandom forgets that Azula being an imperialist and Azula being a questionable sister are not really the same thing, even though they're connected a bit.

Azula can try her best to be a good sister, and she does try in Book 3, but she's imperialist who doesn't really get why Zuko is conflicted on the fire nation. She doesn't get why it isn't a good thing for Zuko to be back home or why Zuko being separated from Iroh is bad (look, I don't like Iroh, but he's still the best adult in Zuko's life by a mile).

Meanwhile, Azula not being an imperialist doesn't necessarily mean she'll be a good sister. Plus, there is a good possibility she'd end up fighting against Zuko anyway as an anti-imperialist (it completely ruins the point of Azula being the villain but it would make a good AU I think).

Agreed. Azula being a toxic/abusive sister and her being a genocidal imperialist and colonizer are related, but not the same. If she wasn't a genocidal imperialist and colonizer, she would still be a toxic sibling at best due to her superiority and inferiority complexes. Sticking with the franchise, Lin Beifong and Suyin Beifong are a good example of good people with a terrible sibling relationship. And if she was a relatively well-adjusted person when it came to her personal relationships and socialization, she would essentially be a female pre-redemption Iroh: a "kind" monster.

As to why people conflate Azula being a toxic/abusive sister and her being a genocidal imperialist and colonizer, I think it is because the show/franchise has a mostly Western audience, and so they tend to focus on and empathize more with Zuko's struggles to overcome his indoctrination and abusive family than the rest of the Gaang dealing with the consequences of imperialism, colonization, and genocide.

Other people have discussed this phenomena at length, but a lot of fan works and discourse has Zuko-based morality where if you are kind to him or help him, you have always been a good person or been redeemed and have completely worked through your indoctrination, even if that is not true or never really seen on screen or on panel (ex. Show!Ursa, pre-redemption Iroh, Mai, and Ty Lee.).

Though to be fair, the franchise encourages this type of thinking considering the Yang comics focus more on Zuko's personal drama than his regime's most important task, de-Sozinification, and Azula's solo comic makes so that her biggest issue is her refusal to accept and take accountability for hurting her loved ones due to her ego and pride instead of being a die-hard Sozinist.

[aishabellasbigblogofeverything]

She would call Yue a peasant too because she’s from a colonized tribe that the Fire Nation saw as lesser. She wouldn’t see a fellow princess who is deserving of and commands respect like her she would see an inferior brown person from a lower, less civilized culture. Azula IS racist, you dumb fuck. Learn media literacy like yesterday.

Azula wasn't racist for calling katara "peasant" lmao. Peasant means social status and has nothing to do with race. Would she call yue a peasant? no cause she isn't one

X

[the-badger-mole]

I like thinking about a role reversal, with Zuko on the right side from the start and Katara needing to switch sides. Some people don't like setting up the SWT as the bad guys, though. Any thoughts you could share on Sokka and Katara as the Fire Nation prince and princess and Zuko and Azula as SWT peasants?

It's not for me. I usually don't like saying never, but I'm never going to write this. I also have a lot of hesitation about setting up the Native coded characters up as the bad guys in place of the ones coded as historically imperialist colonizers. That said, White Man's Burden is a movie that exists, so you're not alone in wanting to see those kinds of "what if" stories. If that's the story you want, I encourage you to write it. I know there's an AU fan comic floating around with that premise. I've only read a few pages, but it looks interesting, and you might like it. I can't remember the name, but I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about.

[sir-tarhos-et-compagna]

Can we stop with the whole 'im trying to be historically accurate' excuse with playing fictional characters being racist that force oppressed groups to relive racism through their favorite media? can we fucking stop this please, youre not being """fun"""

Oh I'm not trying to be fun, I'm playing the character historically accurate, asshole(if you're the one to also wish me fate worse than death).

Ooh, oh no, I'm an Australian and that means my ancestors were political criminals exiled by British like some centuries ago and thus every time I hear mentions of exilement and colonization that hurt me sensitive teeny weeny feelings, boo hoo... Europeans, behave with me delicately and never remind me of colonies, or else you're a fukken opressive imperialists, and I will sue you!

Bullshit. That all shit is a social manipulation construct, used to lobby solely interests of "the offended" social groups. Taking the privileges to yourselves is not equality, ya libtard brain fuck, that's usurpation and power shift. If you fight for equality, just stop being pissed at what was many years ago, like we, "Aryans", do and get a normal life, mate. Anyone is welcome to be a conscientious part of the society, in my opinion, but if you're constantly bitching and demanding extra rights while being the most dangerous and useless group by statistics, who would have guessed, not all would be content with that. If you think I'm such a racist, no. Fuck the white delinquents and marginal elements too.

Anyway, look. I am not among those who will safeguard any delusions, and that's what I am. That is not illegal, at least in Australia, that is not extremist, but, mate. That's the harsh truth, the history. You're welcome to speak it of my people, if it is really true and I will listen to you. I am well aware everyone has flaws, except for princess Azula and, in fact, understanding the past better to become better in future is really useful, try it sometimes.

[justanisabelakinnie]

I saw one of ur posts saying how firebender!katara was racist. I’m just kinda curious and I don’t really understand but how?

Basically it's racist because the firebenders were imperialist who terrorized, colonized, and committed genocide against the water tribe and the rest of the world. So making Katara a firebender, or, worse yet, Fire Lady(through marriage to Zuko ofc 🤮) is stripping of her beautiful water tribe culture and making her a part of the culture that tried to wipe out hers. This is the same reason I'm against shipping Katara or Sokka with Zuko or Azula.

The same also applies to making Sokka a firebender, like doesn't it just make sense for him to be a waterbender if he was a bender? Why strip him of his culture in favor of the one that literally oppressed his own and that considers him a "filthy peasant"?

Hope this helps!

[atla-confessions]

Bryke trying to convince us that the majority of the fire nation citizens just rolled over and accepted a traitor on the throne because some demigod monk sprayed their old leader with bend-begone spray with said traitor and a waterbender beat a mentally slipping teenage girl. Why the fuck would the average noble/general take anything Zuko says seriously especially when it becomes clear Zuko wants to you know...stop the colonization and imperial expansion that the fire nation 'worked' over for over a century? Even with Ozai and Azula out of commission, Zuko would be very disliked because of this. Bare in mind we saw in the Headband when Aang was dragged into school that these people have been feeding off imperialist propaganda since they were kids. Zuko has barely any allies too so he'd be in a bad position.

X

[struggling-author]

I know you have nothing against Ozai growing as a person. If Ozai grew as person without going through anything as extremely heart wrenching as losing a son as Iroh did, would that prove that deep down Ozai was always a better man than Iroh? A man who just needed his goodness to be nurtured.

this is a very complex question and I don’t have the time to really address it all in detail, but I‘ll try because it intrigues me.

firstly, I don’t believe in anyone being inherently good or inherently bad deep down, nor that anyone is more or less capable of goodness than others, so the idea of Ozai being a better man deep down or not is kind of irrelevant to my perspective. I don’t believe Iroh or Zuko were always good deep down, they became good because their experiences shaped them to be good in the end, Iroh because a traumatic loss made him rethink his life and Zuko because he found that the things he was taught about the world did not reflect reality, and through the guidance and love of his uncle.

I‘ll entertain the idea of inherent goodness for a second though, because while my belief that it doesn’t really exist comes from real life experiences, the show actually supports this perspective too.

If you wanted to make a point about anyone being „inherently good“ you could point to Zuko at best, who displayed signs of morality at an early age, but many good guys in the show actually did not. Sokka as a child was very misogynistic, Aang was reckless and immature, Toph beat people up for fun… so was Zuko always a better person deep down? I don’t think so, likely he picked up some morality from his mother and more negative qualities from his father and that’s how he came to be who he was as a child. it doesn’t really tell us anything about who he is deep down. also for Ozai and Iroh, we really have very little idea of what they were like as kids, so we cannot use this as a reference point anyway

so how else could we measure how good someone is deep down? we could point to the fact that, even when Iroh was still firmly lodged in a colonizer mindset, he still seemed to love his family dearly, so based on that we could say that he was always good deep down and his morality was just misguided by his upbringing. I don’t think this would be accurate either though, because I think showing love for some people doesn’t really make you a better person in general, perhaps it can be a good sign that you’re capable of love, but you can love your family and be an imperialist warlord at the same time, and I don’t think the people you’re oppressing will agree that you’re actually a good person deep down. that’s actually another reason why I don’t like the idea in the first place, because it tries to make a black and white issue out of something deeply deeply nuanced. iroh loved his family and violently raided the earth kingdom both at the same time, which of these qualities is him deep down and which was he taught? of course you can assume he was taught imperialism and held love inherently, but we don’t know that. iroh may have learned to love his family because Azulon favored him so he associated family with positive feelings, and he may have been a hothead youth wanting to prove his superiority over the earth kingdom and lead the conquest with personal pride. plus he never showed much love to ozai and azula either, so it seems his love for his family was also limited. suddenly he looks a lot more evil deep down, but I don’t think he is that either.

again, I don’t like to measure „goodness“, but if you forced me to try, then I would measure it like this: how do people react when they are given an opportunity for change?

iroh was given an opportunity for change because a traumatic event made him question his life, he chose a better path

zuko was given an opportunity for change because his uncle taught him a different path, he chose to stick to the worse path at first, but when he was given another opportunity he too chose a better path

ozai was never really given an opportunity for change, of course he was powerful and could do almost anything, but nothing ever made him question his decisions, nothing ever made him think he might be wrong, but now maybe he has that opportunity, he was defeated and brought down, left a shell of his former self, and maybe now he can also reflect, maybe when zuko or someone else offers him a choice at some point, then we can try to measure how good he is by how he reacts to that, but for now there’s really no telling

finally, I also don’t think it’s fair to compare trauma, but since you could argue that larger traumatic events present a bigger opportunity for growth, it would follow that the larger your needed traumatic event was for you to change, the worse of a person you were deep down. that’s what you seem to imply with the comparison above.

again I don’t subscribe to this, but if I were to entertain it, I would still not say it makes ozai a better person, simply because his traumatic event is actually incredibly large if you ask me

losing a significant part of yourself (I imagine losing bending like losing an arm or one of your senses) and also having your entire position, life and power stripped away to be kept in a prison instead is a pretty significant loss if you ask me. we‘d need another system to measure how exactly it compares to losing a son, but honestly? personally, I would rather lose a son, so I can’t reasonably argue that iroh needed a more traumatic event to change his ways

so that’s my answer I guess, if Ozai manages to turn his life around, does that mean he was a better person than Iroh deep down? maybe, depending how it happens and how you choose to look at it, probably not since he needed to face an at least equally significant loss to get there.

ultimately I don’t think it’s really relevant, because trying to measure how good you are underneath is kinda nonsensical, and it matters much more to me why and how you choose to grow and be better, and iroh has essentially peaked there (ignoring the june stuff that I pretend doesn’t exist) so if ozai wanted to be better as an actual person, and not just underneath, then he has a long way to go

in the immortal words of rachel dawes and batman „It's not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us.“

[tinky-dinky]

Exactly, how's he supposed to know better when his own family, including azula's been drilling it into his head? She also doesn't show fear of ozai or say she's scared or whatever. Zuko isn't a mind reader and she herself requested to speak to ozai, partially because she isn't ready to accept that ozai abused her. He's not a bad brother for answering to her to her request.

On another hand, azulanbeinf bound in a straitjacket isn't a sign zuko is abusive, per se. Would they rather have zuko throw her in prison to rot? She's tried to kill him and has attacked him even when bound just for bringing her tea and hurts verbal abuse and accusations. Zuko is probably mentally ill himself and hes still trying to provide care for his sister while juggling his mental illnesses and his role as the fire lord. What kind of fire lord would he be if he left his sister who's a known colonizer and violent imperialist run loose? We also saw what happened when azula manipulated zuko into letting her tag along. She attacked sokka for warning her, attacked innocent people and the gaang and tried to kill ursa. She doesn't get to take her hurt out on innocent people and ursa didn't know who she even was at that point.

Once again, you are completely right, anon friend! I have nothing to add because you’ve said everything.

[ungirthed]

my only issue with azula is that i wish she went apeshit earlier. grey delisle absolutely MURDERED that episode. i like crazy hos but they have to give me more meat. i just know it's because the depths of imperialism were so washed here (which is fine) bc it would be so much more to bite into. i keep asking why and how the hell this whole world started and happened beyond "just because" and "bc i have physical power"

it's just not how it works. it's perfect timing for this show to come up so we can talk about what this shit means and the way media fucks it up. zuko's character is for once someone whose complexity within where he grew up is rewarding and where his blame and complictly is very very different than anyone else. didn't expect to like him so easily.

iroh's price to pay for what he did was the loss of his son. zuko's price started with the burn and learning. the rest of them face immense pain (their fault). i feel nothing for the colonizer and imperialist unless i understand more and i have no interest in thinking about what age is the proper age to get your fucking brains. what i'm interested in is NOW. so what are we gonna do?

if only our understanding of culture wasn't so neutralized and reduced to easy answers and ideas of being able to preserve nation...i hear toph becomes a cop....i cry.

i will never ever EVER ever accept these people as is. they are not civilians for the most part. sorry. also when ppl say kyoshi is ruthless but don't talk about her heart. she isn't ruthless. i support aang's decision because of his beliefs, age, and abilities and the show hammered this home (and the show's love of animals...seriously it rly renewed my love of vegetarianism) but kyoshi isn't ruthless. we burn ourselves for freedom, we make hard decisions. she is doing so. it is hard to kill and i always always always think people, even freedom fighters, should toil with this. and they will and they do. if i were aang, i would have made that decision but it is a hard one.

LONG LIVE THE INTIFADA! we kill colonizers is a badge of honor that comes with a price. the gun is our pen and our pen is the gun!

for a kid's show it's phenomenal writing on a personal level but i can see that it has bred almost 20y of a completely skewed vision of what the fuck was actually going on wrt imperialism which i am beginning to truly believe is the main contradiction.