#avengers endgame criticism

[gloriousburden]

i think they should make a movie where the writers actually like thor and loki

[therese-lokidottir]

I am not trying compare who is more suffer but I feel mcu beside moon Knight just brush off mental problems and make it became cruel joke. Like Tony drinking problem, Steve Roger's trauma, many more.

Did no one talking about that the fact Bruce and loki (a few examples) are suicidal? They literally trying to kill themselves, specially loki that on screen showing it but they just make it joke about it.

And thor's drinking problem that make him fat, he was lucky he was aesir if not I bet thor already dead long time ago.

Every producers and writers that clearly not care about characters they will always end up with unnecessary shir plot and unnecessary joke. I meant really? What are they 10 year old that need comedy in all films?

I feel uncomfortable now

By the end phase three the MCU made clear they did not want to deal with their characters mental health issues. Tony and Bruce's are quietly swept under the rug and they proceed as if maybe sad sometimes but never so much that it will detract from them doing cool stuff. Thor's treatment is so mean spirited because for whatever few moments of sympathy he might get its clear that the thought is he's grieving in the wrong way. Rather than have it be his friends should be showing compassion and he should be open to getting help from others the underlying message is Thor's grief is a burden and he himself needs to pull himself out of if.

Wanda's mental was portrayed with nuance and sympathy at first before walnut decided she's crazy and therefore evil and crushes her with rocks. Her mental health was a burden on others so she had to go.

Whatever issues Steve had are solved by getting a girlfriend. Any Issues Stephan has there going solved by getting a girlfriend ow. Any issues Loki had solved by getting a girlfriend. Thor's issues solved by having a kid.

The solution is never taken care of oneself or coming together as a group in a platonic way. It entering a hetero normative relationship, taking care of someone else or just dying.

[purgeindeath]

it’s kind of amazing how vi had absolutely no character arc this season. like i don’t know if that even counts a character at all. feels like ai tried writing her. she became a cop, cried, served cunt, got an ugly haircut, cried and then fucked caitlyn. 10/10 writing 😍😍😍 so complex and thought provoking and definitely addresses all the interesting aspects about her identity and violence in s1

[erandraws]

This crossover is everything. I can’t wait for Jester to try and convert Fearne to the traveler. I can’t wait for Fjord to find out Orym was given an exalted sword from the wildmother and he’s not even a paladin. I can’t wait for a single battle with 15 initiatives where Liam simultaneously goes first and last.

[wiyu989]

"Bucky was happy for Steve!"

Yeah, totally.

[swiatloanjo]

How can people think that Steve giving Tony his cell phone to contact him is an "insult" and then blame Steve for not being there when Tony needed him BUT DIDN'T CALL HIM????

Steve, even after fighting with Tony and Tony trying to kill Bucky, still gave him a cell phone so that Tony could contact him if needed. And this was extremely intelligent and responsible from Steve's side.

FUCKING THANOS WOULD GO TO EARTH TO KILL EVERYONE and Tony didn't call Steve because of a childish tantrum.

Later Thanos went to Wakanda to get the missing gem. Steve took a punch and passed out and when he woke up everyone was literally turning to dust. He passed, along with Natasha and others, 5 years helping and supporting civilians who lost loved ones and suffered because of Thanos' snap. The first thing Tony does when he sees him is blame Steve for not being there. As far as I know Steve is not a telepath, then where is the narrative saying that Tony is also not right and that it was his responsibility to call Steve himself? It was for no fucking place, because Steve didn't even have the opportunity to tell or explain what he was doing because Tony dramatically took the arc reactor out of his chest and almost died.

"Poor Tony, Steve is really heartless" is what they want you to think even though it's not Steve's fault, he was hardly ever wrong most of the time when he was arguing or sharing the scene with Tony.

[porcelain-dionysus]

Steve’s Endgame Ending fixed

What if at the end of Endgame when Steve is returning the stones, he has to give up something he loves, right? So what if he gives up his super-serum effects (an au tweaked and borrowed from @growingpaynes-art ), and turns back into pre-serum-Steve? A list of reasons why I think this would work:

A) Straight off the bat it’s easy to keep Steve in the MCU with Chris Evans’ contract ending if they replace the actor who plays pre-serum-Steve (obviously with a guy who looks similar to the first movie, but without the CGI). I know people might be confused why he looks different but the MCU’s changed actors before and it’s not the hardest stretch of the imagination. Also thematically it’d be cool to have Steve be literally unrecognisable to the audience.

B) I think a lot of writers for the Avengers are so focused on writing ‘Captain America’; ‘bland, stoic, with no sense of humor’, that they forget about Steve Rogers; the young disabled man who would put his life on the line to fight fascists. This would be a great way to get back to the basics of Steve’s character and show the audience who he truly is.

C) Honestly it would just be nice to show that Steve is just as righteous and brave with his disabilities, something not often shown in media. Even the MCU likes to focus on Steve’s asthma and ignore that he actually was disabled. (which i’ll touch on in a second).

*and now for some more headcannon-y stuff*

A) From screenshots from the movie, and a list at Disneylands Tomorrowland exhibit, the canon list of Steve’s disabilites and health problems are:

Asthma

Anemia

Diabetes

Color-blindness

Arrhythmia

Scoliosis

Chronic colds

High blood pressure

Easy fatigability

Heart trouble

Sinusitis

Fallen arches

Partial deafness

Stomach ulcers

Pernicious Anemia

Astigmatism

Nervous troubles of any sort

History of; scarlet fever, rheumatic fever

(Jesus Christ Steven)

B) It’d be cute to see Steve actually be able live with his disabilities, unlike in the 30’s. I cannot stress how much eugenics there was back then (and still is now, but WAY more casually acceptable back then). Even the actual Captain America storyline reeks of it a bit; experiment on a disabled man to ‘fix’ him and turn him into a soldier. However in the 21st century imagine if he could get the help he actually needs! Obviously a lot of his stuff is chronic, but he could actually live with it instead of just surviving like he would have done. And be able to afford them, unlike back in the Great Depression. Back braces, inhaler, mobility aids etc. It’d be nice to see a disabled person living with themselves as the HAPPY ending, instead of as a tragedy as it’s usually played.

C) The story of him actually seeing worth in his old (new?) body and himself instead of just a vessel for Captain America. A self-acceptance arc. Being able to retire in peace without anyone recognising him as Captain America without having to give up his life in the 21st century.

D) The Smithsonian exhibit is so closely tailored to his propaganda persona that it fails to acknowledge him as a person. I wouldn’t be surprised if the general public has never even seen a photo of him pre-serum, or knew how bad his illnesses were besides ‘just asthmatic and skinny’. He could easily walk around and not be noticed by anyone.

Tldr: Steve’s proper ending in Endgame should have had him return to his skinny form in exchange for the stone, and him being able to retire to finish art school in peace.

[starlight-bread-blog]

Before Loki was kidnapped to the TVA, he was just getting arrested for genocide. He was at his most villainous self.

(I'm gonna burn through this next point because that's not the point I'm trying to make, I'm just adding context, sorry in advance): The first thing the Loki series does is showing him a video to make him a sympathetic protagonist, and it seemed to work.

So essentially, their starting point is a Loki who is still semi a good guy but still isn't cooperative in the slightest. Not, you know, the guy who just sent an army of aliens to murder a bunch of people and conquer the earth. So, I have to question,

Why Is Loki Taken From Avengers, and Not Where We Left Off?

By the end of Thor: Ragnarok, Loki's arc is in a much different place to where it was in New York. He's a different person, while still being himself. Because we saw distinct sides of him, and he even did good.

But his arc was not done. He was clearly doing good for vanity reasons, rather than morality, to at least some extent.

Not to mention his Jötunn heritage that he was taught to hate from childhood.

There was still so much to do. So much to explore with this Loki. But...

There was no need for this. He could have easily survived (very easily, to the point where it's goofy). We've already seen Loki redeem himself, now, there's more. He's not perfect, he's not done. Why not pull Loki to the TVA without undoing his arc? Let's just keep going, the path isn't over.

(He would want to escape rather he was his NYC self or not. His motivation could still be "I just need to get out of here" -> "there's a real problem I need to fix". The series will be different, but not that different).

Which bring me to my next point: The TVA is the perfect starting point for the continuation of Loki's arc from Ragnarok.

Consider: Doing things for validation & admiration -> going to a place isolated from your life. This would also enhance the symbolism of Loki sitting alone. He wanted a throne for validation (vanity), and now he chose a throne no one will know exists, because he wants to help (morality).

In addition, there's no magic in the TVA. There was an opportunity to kick off a journey to self acceptance, to force him to look in the mirror until he likes what he sees.

The show starts with 2012 Loki, but wants 2017 Loki. And rightfully so, because his character wasn't finished. He had so much more to do. I wish Loki hadn't died, his series would be better for it.

[criminalmutantsins]

Loki & Thor Reunion Idea 

After seeing how much Loki's grown in his series, I really hope we see him return to the movie series. He doesn't have to be the main focus for a whole film, but a few scenes where he's important would be good.

Maybe, there can be a movie where Loki and Thor reunite. From what I remember, the original Loki (the one killed by Thanos) and Thor didn't outright say they loved each other. Of course, you can still express love without saying it but, after seeing them fight for years and resolving it right before Loki's death, seeing them say that they love each other.

I imagine that they see each other, and freeze (Thor because of shock and Loki feeling nervous about what to say), but Thor immediately snaps out of it, runs towards Loki, and bear hugs him. Though shocked, Loki hugs him back, and the brothers start crying. Loki starts apologizing for all the pain he’s caused Thor, to which the latter responds, “I’ve already forgiven you, brother. I missed you so much.” Loki smiles and says, “I missed you too brother.” 

Later on, when he has to return to the TVA, Loki and Thor say their goodbyes. Thor tells him that he’s proud of how much he’s changed and is happy he has friends there for him. In turn, Loki tells Thor that he’s proud of him too and jokes about how they are no longer the arrogant fools they used to be. They wish each other happy lives and say, “I love you.” Then it flashes back to them playing as children and being happy. 

I think this would be a very sweet way for Thor to move on from the pain of losing Loki. I wish it was acknowledged more in Endgame and Love & Thunder, but his depression was mostly played for laughs instead of developed into a full character arc. It also gives Loki the chance to apologize for some of his mistakes and have a nice reunion with Thor, unlike in his timeline where he was still a villain and Thor disliked him.  

[crispysnake]

never ever in my life have I been so happy that I sneakily turned on my phone and audio recorded the last 20 minutes In a theater

[gloriousburden]

I miss when it was still exciting to go see a marvel movie. Now, I just feel dread every time something is announced or is in the theaters. it seems like the more possibilities they get (such as introducing new characters, new storylines, the whole multiverse bullshit) the movies become more garbage. It really was better when the movies were just about the Avengers versus Loki. The Avengers versus new bad guy. The Avengers versus each other. Asgardian shenanigans. Captain America versus Hydra shenanigans. Black Panther. Doctor Strange. GOTG even though I’m not necessarily a huge fan.

Honestly, I can’t even remember liking any of the movies/series that came out… and I saw most of them. The MCU is so over and it’s so saddening to me. It used to be so much fun. Some of the What If episodes were kind of fun, but everything else… 😞 I wish the Avengers could’ve been forever. Endgame is the evil that keeps on giving. It never stopped.

Obviously, the MCU has always had its mistakes and flops. But… it wasn’t every single project back to back. Possibly the only thing that’s remained consistent is their love of whitewashing, butchering, and nerfing characters. None of that changed.

[gaia-aviva]

I thought I liked Endgame but as time went on I realized I only liked parts of it. And the more I think about it, the more I realize Endgame didn't have to be as disappointing as it was. I feel like even just a few changes would have greatly improved the movie:

Having an actual scene where Tony and Steve talk about what happened between them. Instead, the movie rushed their reconciliation and we're left to assume they worked out their issues off-screen. (They HAD to have talked sometime in the five-year time gap in Endgame.  You don’t get from “No trust liar” to “If you don’t talk shop, you’re welcome to stay for lunch” without reaching some kind of understanding).

It would have been good to have seen that on screen. It definitely would have been a better use of screen time than Fat Thor and all the offensive and not-funny jokes that came with it. Getting rid of the Fat Thor subplot and giving us more Steve and Tony content would have been a big improvement for the film.

Another thing that we didn't get was any type of closure between Bucky and Tony. There should have been a scene where Bucky saved either Pepper or Tony during the Battle of Earth and Tony would thank him and let him know he's not a murderer, etc, basically make their peace. Heck, even just a nod to each other on the battlefield would have been better than nothing. It certainly would have been more substantial than that contrived girl-power scene.

The aforementioned Tony, Steve, and Bucky scenes I've suggested would have also have helped heal the rifts in the fandom. Obviously not the hard-core haters, but antis on both sides capable of seeing reason would likely soften their stance on the characters.

All this of course doesn't address all of the problems with Endgame, (Natasha's death, Tony's death, Steve's ending, the fact that the MCU had reached its logical conclusion but was still going to continue..., etc.), but I feel like even those changes alone would have drastically improved the film.

[eeniyilee]

Infinity war and Endgame should be more guardians focused rather than avengers. Mostly because they were closer link to Thanos.

Especially Nebula and Gamora, who deserves way more screen time.

I get that Thanos targeted earth and avengers had to step in but still.

Guardians should be taken more seriously.

[oswildin]

I highly recommend this Endgame retrospective!

It’s long, but if you love digging into the bones of a piece of media & listening to a healthy dose of critical analysis, I think you’ll like this.

Never realised how bad the time travel stuff is, I genuinely got a headache trying to think about it too much lmao - trying to come up with my own conclusion/explanation for everything but yeah… I’m left with more questions than answers.

I never really thought about it all this deeply before, just taking the film at face value, but as you pick it apart… yikes.

(Don’t get me wrong, I still enjoy the film, but from a story standpoint and character perspective… It definitely could’ve been better. But of course, it’s all personal opinion, and it’s only since watching a few of these videos that my own opinion changed, and it’s okay if you disagree.)

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

Couldn't agree more. Just look at the way the Guardians handled Gamora's loss and how they all banded together to make Quill feel better... compare that to the Avengers basically ignoring each other and going their own ways after the Blip.

Sam was texting Bucky but he didn't give a damn about Wanda? Not to mention he has never said a single thing about Natasha despite the fact that she was one of his best friends. Clint goes back to his family and forgets about Wanda after Stark's funeral even though she had basically been another one of his kids post-AoU.

And they didn't do this only with Wanda, what about Thor? They didn't care for him either. Or worse, they made jokes at his expense.

What Wanda did was still her responsibility, but if she had some form of support system things would have been entirely different. She was left to deal with the grief on her own and after everything she had gone through it all piled up... until she couldn't carry the weight anymore. If anything I'm surprised she didn't snap earlier.

[phoenixofthestars]

Lost Ones

There are stories I know.

A Russian superspy and an American archer, both carrying a lot of weight on their shoulders.

Two twins with perfectly pointy enough ears, both needing the other in their own way.

An Air Ashari and a human lord, both hopelessly in love with a twin.

They're all stories. I love them. I can't not love their characters, their details, their parallels and intricacies. But I also hate them. They make me want to rip out my heart so as to not feel this sadness, this grief, this rage.

And yet, if I ripped out my heart, I wouldn't feel the love that made me feel this in the first place. I wouldn't be able to enjoy watching Nat playing a prank on Clint, or seeing Vex make Vax laugh, or smile at Vax helping Keyleth find her own, or laugh at Percy verbally kicking some racist elven noble's ass for Vex. I think that's a lot sadder.

These characters have touched my heart. They've carved a home inside with laughter and smiles and love. My heart hurt to watch Nat still half-trapped inside Wanda's mind tricks in the QuinJet and at the farmhouse, and it hurt to watch Vex still needing her father even though he was never going to give her love. (Saundor was right about that, at least, but he was too fucking miserable to realize there's other ways to fill the hole Syldor left.)

And even with the hurt I smiled at Vex clearly worrying for Percy on the way to Whitestone, in that sad little carriage, and using her new arrowhead to fuck Saundor over, and I smiled at drunk Keyleth finding Vax cute in Westruun, and I smile every time Nat does 'cause she fucking deserves happiness, and I smiled at Keyleth and Vex following Vax to the Matron's temple, because they're the ones closest to him.

I don't know who knows this already, but I'm autistic. I'm feeling absolutely everything for these characters and I barely understand why. I'm falling apart at Chase Noseworthy's Far From Me (it isn't Do Not Go Far From Me because Vex did go far from Vax, even if only for a little while) and I'm falling apart at the final pause in Lilli Furfaro's Lessons, after the verse about Vax, and also Lilli's Nothing from Nothing and Tethering. I'm falling apart at Nat crying after learning about Clint in Endgame, and I'm falling apart at the theory that Clint truly did love Nat, because otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get the Soul Stone.

There's a burning sorrow inside me, and sometimes I want to scream.

I'd see the world burn just to bring the lost ones back.