#asperger was a nazi

[clownrecess]

What are your objections to the term "aspie"? When I first encountered the term, it sounded like it might be a slur because of the diminutive "-ie". When I looked for an answer though, all of the articles said is was a neutral/descriptive term, meant to distance the condition from Asperger.

(TW FOR ABLEISM, EUGENICS/MURDER, NAZIS, THE TERM ASPERGERS)

The reason I am upset my the word aspie is because is it related to aspergers.

"Aspergers syndrome" is not a different condition, it is just autism. More specifically, it is a term made by Hans Asperger (a nazi) to describe the "type" of autistics he thought were deserving of life. All the others were killed.

[ethicallysaucedlibraryfaggot]

Samantha Crafts Unofficial Autism Checklist for AFAB's

I just came across this resource and though I would share it. All but maybe 2 of these things apply to me and it is very validating/eye-opening.

A couple disclaimers:

1. This is not a diagnostic tool, its the result of an Autistic persons gathering and compiling the lived experience of Autistic afabs and so it may be valuable in a clinical setting as well as in ones personal journey.

2. Any reference to intelligence is not exclusive to IQ or academic capabilities or acheivement

3. Craft uses she/her pronouns in this work but as an afab agender person I believe it is relevant to most if not all afab people on with autism (self diagnoses included). I will leave it up to trans women and trans feminine people to decide how relevant it is to them.

4. Craft has historically used the term Aspergers and has a book including that word, she seems to have made some attempts to adjust her language in the present but is choosing not to do so retroactively. This choice does not align with my values and I have taken pains to make sure the version here excludes that language. If one got through, I apologize.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Section A consideration/prolific artist in place of writer and/or both.)

Section A: Deep Thinkers

A deep thinker

A prolific writer drawn to poetry

*Highly intelligent (Highly intelligent does not relate to IQ levels. Autistic individuals are often dyslexic and have dysgraphia and other learning disabilities but can be highly intelligent about particular subject matters, out-of-the-box thinking, and verbal fluency/fluid intelligence capacities.)

Sees things at multiple levels, including her own thinking processes

Analyzes existence, the meaning of life, and everything, continually

Serious and matter-of-fact in nature

Doesn’t take things for granted

Doesn’t simplify

Everything is complex

Often gets lost in own thoughts and “checks out” (blank stare)

Section B: Innocent

Naïve

Honest

Experiences trouble with lying

Finds it difficult to understand manipulation and disloyalty

Finds it difficult to understand vindictive behavior and retaliation

Easily fooled and conned

Feelings of confusion and being overwhelmed

Feelings of being misplaced and/or from another planet

Feelings of isolation

Abused or taken advantage of as a child but didn’t think to tell anyone

Section C: Escape and Friendship

Survives overwhelming emotions and senses by escaping in thought or action

Escapes regularly through fixations, obsessions, and over-interest in subjects

Escapes routinely through imagination, fantasy, and daydreaming

Escapes through mental processing

Escapes through the rhythm of words

Philosophizes, continually

Had imaginary friends in youth

Imitates people on television or in movies

Treated friends as “pawns” in youth, e.g., friends were “students” “consumers” “members”

Makes friends with older or younger females more so than friends her age (often in young adulthood)

Imitates friends or peers in style, dress, attitude, interests, and manner (sometimes speech)

Obsessively collects and organizes objects

Mastered imitation

Escapes by playing the same music over and over

Escapes through a relationship (imagined or real)

Numbers bring ease (could be numbers associated with patterns, calculations, lists, time and/or personification)

Escapes through counting, categorizing, organizing, rearranging

Escapes into other rooms at parties

Cannot relax or rest without many thoughts

Everything has a purpose

Section D: Comorbid Attributes

OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)

Sensory Issues (sight, sound, texture, smells, taste) (might have synesthesia)

Generalized Anxiety

Sense of pending danger or doom

Feelings of polar extremes (depressed/over-joyed; inconsiderate/over-sensitive)

Poor muscle tone, double-jointed, and/or lack in coordination (may have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and/or Hypotonia and/or POTS syndrome)

Eating disorders, food obsessions, and/or worry about what is eaten

Irritable bowel and/or intestinal issues

Chronic fatigue and/or immune challenges

Misdiagnosed or diagnosed with a mental illness

Experiences multiple physical symptoms, perhaps labeled “hypochondriac”

Questions place in the world

Often drops small objects

Wonders who she is and what is expected of her

Searches for right and wrong

Since puberty has had bouts of depression (may have PMDD)

Flicks/rubs fingernails, picks scalp/skin, flaps hands, rubs hands together, tucks hands under or between legs, keeps closed fists, paces in circles, and/or clears throat often

Section E: Social Interaction

Friends have ended friendship suddenly (without female with AS understanding why) and/or difficult time making friends

Tendency to overshare

Spills intimate details to strangers

Raised hand too much in class or didn’t participate in class

Little impulse control with speaking when younger

Monopolizes conversation at times

Brings subject back to self

Comes across at times as narcissistic and controlling (is not narcissistic)

Shares in order to reach out

Often sounds eager and over-zealous or apathetic and disinterested

Holds a lot of thoughts, ideas, and feelings inside

Feels as if she is attempting to communicate “correctly”

Obsesses about the potentiality of a relationship with someone, particularly a love interest or feasible new friendship

Confused by the rules of accurate eye contact, tone of voice, proximity of body, body stance, and posture in conversation

Conversation are often exhausting

Questions the actions and behaviors of self and others, continually

Feels as if missing a conversation “gene” or thought-filter

Trained self in social interactions through readings and studying of other people

Visualizes and practices how she will act around others

Practices/rehearses in mind what she will say to another before entering the room

Difficulty filtering out background noise when talking to others

Has a continuous dialogue in mind that tells her what to say and how to act when in a social situation

Sense of humor sometimes seems quirky, odd, inappropriate, or different from others

As a child it was hard to know when it was her turn to talk

Finds norms of conversation confusing

Finds unwritten and unspoken rules difficult to grasp, remember, and apply

Section F: Finds Refuge when Alone

Feels extreme relief when she doesn’t have to go anywhere, talk to anyone, answer calls, or leave the house but at the same time will often harbor guilt for “hibernating” and not doing “what everyone else is doing”

One visitor at the home may be perceived as a threat (this can even be a familiar family member)

Knowing logically a house visitor is not a threat, doesn’t relieve the anxiety

Feelings of dread about upcoming events and appointments on the calendar

Knowing she has to leave the house causes anxiety from the moment she wakes up

All the steps involved in leaving the house are overwhelming and exhausting to think about

She prepares herself mentally for outings, excursions, meetings, and appointments, often days before a scheduled event

OCD tendencies when it comes to concepts of time, being on time, tracking time, recording time, and managing time (could be carried over to money, as well)

Questions next steps and movements, continually

Sometimes feels as if she is on stage being watched and/or a sense of always having to act out the “right” steps, even when she is home alone

Telling self the “right” words and/or positive self-talk (CBT) doesn’t typically alleviate anxiety. CBT may cause increased feelings of inadequacy.

Knowing she is staying home all day brings great peace of mind

Requires a large amount of down time or alone time

Feels guilty after spending a lot of time on a special interest

Uncomfortable in public locker rooms, bathrooms, and/or dressing rooms

Dislikes being in a crowded mall, crowded gym, and/or crowded theater

Section G: Sensitive

Sensitive to sounds, textures, temperature, and/or smells when trying to sleep

Adjusts bedclothes, bedding, and/or environment in an attempt to find comfort

Dreams are anxiety-ridden, vivid, complex, and/or precognitive in nature

Highly intuitive to others’ feelings

Highly empathetic, sometimes to the point of confusion

Takes criticism to heart

Longs to be seen, heard, and understood

Questions if she is a “normal” person

Highly susceptible to outsiders’ viewpoints and opinions

At times adapts her view of life or actions based on others’ opinions or words

Recognizes own limitations in many areas daily, if not hourly

Becomes hurt when others question or doubt her work

Views many things as an extension of self

Fears others opinions, criticism, and judgment

Dislikes words and events that hurt animals and people

Collects or rescues animals (often in childhood)

Huge compassion for suffering (sometimes for inanimate objects/personification)

Sensitive to substances (environmental toxins, foods, alcohol, medication, hormones, etc.)

Tries to help, offers unsolicited advice, or formalizes plans of action

Questions life purpose and how to be a “better” person

Seeks to understand abilities, skills, and/or gifts

Section H: Sense of Self

Feels trapped between wanting to be herself and wanting to fit in

Imitates others without realizing it

Suppresses true wishes (often in young adulthood)

Exhibits codependent behaviors (often in young adulthood)

Adapts self in order to avoid ridicule

Rejects social norms and/or questions social norms

Feelings of extreme isolation

Feeling good about self takes a lot of effort and work

Switches preferences based on environment and other people

Switches behavior based on environment and other people

Didn’t care about her hygiene, clothes, and appearance before teenage years and/or before someone else pointed these out to her

“Freaks out” but doesn’t know why until later

Young sounding voice

Trouble recognizing what she looks like and/or has occurrences of slight prosopagnosia (difficulty recognizing or remembering faces)

Feels significantly younger on the inside than on the outside (perpetually twelve)

Section I: Confusion

Had a hard time learning that others are not always honest

Feelings seem confusing, illogical, and unpredictable (self’s and others’)

Confuses appointment times, numbers, and/or dates

Expects that by acting a certain way certain results can be achieved, but realizes in dealing with emotions, those results don’t always manifest

Spoke frankly and literally in youth

Jokes go over the head

Confused when others ostracize, shun, belittle, trick, and betray

Trouble identifying feelings unless they are extreme

Trouble with emotions of hate and dislike

Feels sorry for someone who has persecuted or hurt her

Personal feelings of anger, outrage, deep love, fear, giddiness, and anticipation seem to be easier to identify than emotions of joy, satisfaction, calmness, and serenity

Difficulty recognizing how extreme emotions (outrage, deep love) will affect her and challenges transferring what has been learned about emotions from one situation to the next

Situations and conversations sometimes perceived as black or white

The middle spectrum of outcomes, events, and emotions is sometimes overlooked or misunderstood (all or nothing mentality)

A small fight might signal the end of a relationship or collapse of world

A small compliment might boost her into a state of bliss

Section J: Words, Numbers, and Patterns

Likes to know word origins and/or origin of historical facts/root cause and foundation

Confused when there is more than one meaning (or spelling) to a word

High interest in songs and song lyrics

Notices patterns frequently

Remembers things in visual pictures

Remembers exact details about someone’s life

Has a remarkable memory for certain details

Writes or creates to relieve anxiety

Has certain “feelings” or emotions towards words and/or numbers

Words and/or numbers bring a sense of comfort and peace, akin to a friendship

(Optional) Executive Functioning & Motor Skills  This area isn’t always as evident as other areas

Simple tasks can cause extreme hardship

Learning to drive a car or rounding the corner in a hallway can be troublesome

New places offer their own set of challenges

Anything that requires a reasonable amount of steps, dexterity, or know-how can rouse a sense of panic

The thought of repairing, fixing, or locating something can cause anxiety

Mundane tasks are avoided

Cleaning self and home may seem insurmountable

Many questions come to mind when setting about to do a task

Might leave the house with mismatched socks, shirt buttoned incorrectly, and/or have dyslexia and/or dysgraphia

A trip to the grocery store can be overwhelming

Trouble copying dance steps, aerobic moves, or direction in a sports gym class

Has a hard time finding certain objects in the house but remembers with exact clarity where other objects are; not being able to locate something or thinking about locating something can cause feelings of intense anxiety (object permanence challenges) (even with something as simple as opening an envelope)

End

This unofficial checklist can be copied for therapists, counselors, psychiatrists, psychologists, professors, teachers, and relatives if Samantha Craft’s name and contact information remain on the printout. This list was created in 2012 and updated in May 2016.

Disclaimer: This is one person’s opinion. It is not meant to replace the DSM-V Autism Spectrum condition definition, nor is this list meant to serve as an official diagnostic tool. 1000s and 1000s of individuals around the globe have used this list, in conjunction with the DSM-IV or DSM-V and a professional mental health professional’s guidance. It has been an important tool for females, particularly, but individuals across the gender spectrum identify with the list. The list has been translated into different languages. It is based on over 8 years of communicating, almost daily, with those that are diagnosed or self-diagnosed Autistic. It is not all-inclusive. Some will fit into categories and not be Autistic. This is meant as a springboard for discussion and more awareness.

Author’s Note: I am diagnosed as Autistic/gifted-intellect, and have dyslexia, dyspraxia, GAD, PTSD, hEDS, POTS, fibromyalgia, and other chronic pain conditions. I am not unusual in my presentation; many Autistic adults have many coexisting conditions. This post was originally composed when A***********s Syndrome was a stand-alone diagnosis. At that time, not much was written or discussed about females on the autism spectrum.

In 2022, I was diagnosed ADHD, OCD, and complex-PTSD.

[apparentlyautisticandanxious]

Dr. Asperger literally spent his time deciding which autistic kids got to live based on whether they could be useful to society. Those that he deemed useless were either used for medical experiments to sent to death camps. Don’t be like Dr. Asperger. That’s some Nazi shit.

"Actually some autistic people make really important contributions to society-" Sure, but many don't, and you really shouldn't have to earn or justify your existence to be considered a person worthy of life.

[gay-jesus-probably]

This is your regular reminder that Asperger's is not a real diagnosis, as it was removed from the DSM a decade ago, because it had only ever meant "autism but with the Good symptoms", and those standards were always vague and poorly defined. Because Dr. Asperger was a Nazi whose job was to murder autistic children, and the diagnosis of Asperger's literally began as just the kids whose autism presented in a way that Dr. Asperger found tolerable enough to not murder them. The whole concept of Asperger's is literally rooted in some autistic people being considered 'better' than other autistic people for having the 'correct' symptoms, with the implication that anyone who doesn't display only those symptoms doesn't deserve respect or basic human decency.

Again, cannot stress this enough, the entire concept of Asperger's is literally a nazi thing, to justify the murder of autistic children. It's just autism. Just fucking call it autism. I'm sorry if you were diagnosed with Asperger's over a decade ago, but that specific diagnosis literally just means "Autistic but in a way that wouldn't get me murdered by nazi's", and that is not something to brag about (and if you were diagnosed with Asperger's after 2013, then your doctor either wasn't familiar with the DSM V, or was just very ableist). It's a shitty diagnosis invented by a shitty person for shitty reasons, which is why it is no longer in use.

It's just autism. Just call it autism.

[metalheadsforblacklivesmatter]

Kanye claimed he's autistic "Like rainman" and I have to explain why this is a Nazi dogwhistle that's being normalized with modern autistic media.

In Nazi Germany, there was Nazi doctor that sorted autistic people into two groups. The "high functioning" autistic people be labeled "Aspergers" and they were the "useful autistics" so they got to live. The "low functioning" autistic people got thrown into camps. The doctor's name was Asperger and it's a large reason why the modem autistic community doesn't like functioning labels. They have root in Nazi Germany and eugenics.

Why is Kanye comparing himself to rainman a Nazi dogwhistle? Because there's an alt-right pipeline in the autistic community rooted in Aspie supremacy (aspergers supremacy). And said pipeline has become more normalized in modern media with TV like Rick and Morty and The Good Doctor. Where the autistic representation are the "good autistics" or the "useful autistics" with savant syndrome.

You cannot have this idea of high vs low functioning autism without also acknowledging that this idea only exists because Nazis put those labels on people to eugenics the autistic community.

So yeah. "Kanye did Nazi shit" is a tired point to make in 2022, but I had to point out that his normalizing the idea of autistic people being a super genius is itself a Nazi dog whistle. And it's a dog whistle that's being increasingly normalized with autism in media unit being portrayed as super geniuses with savant syndrome.

-fae

[clownrecess]

Seriously.

I have seen too many autistic people (who have LSN) purposefully user the term "aspie", or "aspergers", as well as completely dismiss HSN people because they want to be separate from us.

You can help us advocate for ourselves, but do NOT dismiss us, do not try to act like you are better than us, and do not speak over/for us.

“we don’t have to listen to high support needs autistic people because they can’t voice their opinions, the greater autism community can advocate for them��� holy shit do y’all not see how much you sound like an autism mom.

[neuroticboyfriend]

i really feel like it should not be controversial that naming yourself after a fucking nazi is wrong? like you do realize that's what you're doing when you call yourself and aspie or say you have Asperger's Syndrome?? Hans Asperger was a real person who supported real genocide against millions of real people. why the fuck would you ever want to be associated with that? i feel like this alone would be enough not to use the term, let alone all the ableism and eugenics associated with it??

[sophieinwonderland]

if you agree with the statement "even if endogenic was a word used by ableist scientists in the 50s doesnt mean endogenic systems should stop calling themselves that because of ableist scientists in the 50s", then you agree that it is morally okay to use the term "Asperger's", correct? the nazi term used to separate "good" autistics from "bad" autistics to aid in the killing of "bad" autistics? the term that actively separates and harms the autistic community? because endogenic is the same thing. this is the exact same situation, a term created and used by harmful people that is for some reason, still being being used.

please try to actually read what I'm saying instead of blowing me off, thank you. its a common trend for you to badly misinterpret what someone else is saying and create your own meaning

this is the exact same situation

Is it? Is it really?

In truth, I'm not overly educated on the history of Asperger's and am reading some conflicting accounts of the history of Hans Asperger, so I'm just going to take the details you provided at face value.

Neither "endogenic" nor "endogenous" were made by bad people. These words already existed before Freud used them. He didn't coin them.

These are basic words with a Greek etymology. "Endo" means inside or within. "Genous" means originating.

In contrast, Asperger is a person's name. The name of a Nazi or Nazi aligned individual according to this account. Who was associated with the deaths of disabled people.

Aspurger's is a specific word that only applies to this one disorder. It doesn't have any existence or meaning outside of that.

Endogenic and endogenous have a long history with broad uses in a huge variety of contexts. Both within and outside of psychology and psychiatry.

Now, despite saying I was going to take this at face value because I am still learning. I will say that from what research I've done, it at least doesn't look Asperger's Syndrome was actually a "Nazi term." It wasn't coined until 1976 by Lorna Wing.

From what I've gathered... the term Hans Asperger actually used for his syndrome in the beginning... was autism. (Well, more specifically, it was "autistic psychopathy.")

And that would probably be a closer comparison. A word with a complex history including some ableist uses along the way. But one that most reasonable people wouldn't consider ableist.

Which brings me to the question... do you feel autism should be retired as well due to the fact that this is what Hans Asperger originally called his disorder?

I feel you should by your logic.

...

...

In any case, there's one last point I want to make on this.

You know Freud was of Jewish descent, right? And that many of his works were destroyed by Nazis who hated the field of psychoanalysis that he founded? (In fact, Hans Asperger himself was an opponent of psychoanalysis as well.)

There's something that really rubs me the wrong way when the comparison you're making is between a word that you claim was coined by Nazis who used it to kill disabled people, and one that's being associated with a man of Jewish heritage who was victimized and persecuted by the Nazi regime.

I don't think this is intentional. I don’t think you woke up this morning and decided "you know what? I'm going to equate a German Jew who suffered under Nazi rule to his Nazi-aligned opponent."

But I do wish you would strive for greater awareness before falling on Nazi comparisons in syscourse.

[crazycatsiren]

I'm out of patience at this point.

"Aspies" fuck off challenge.

[ethicallysaucedlibraryfaggot]

I honestly don’t know where the leap of logic is from “the writers of your favourite show are being paid fuck all for their efforts while ceos are raking in millions and billions.” To “fuck these privileged writers, they all sucks and should lose” all the while maintaining that you believe in a meritocracy… Writers asking for a bare minimum living wage for their work is them asking for their merit to be reflected in their pay…

Yes Hollywood needs to fundamentally change but taking out frustration on workers who need multiple jobs to survive and can’t afford healthcare is not the hot take you think it is.

Am I Supposed To Feel Bad For These Other Morons?

You know what, let them strike. I want both sides to loose. 

I want Hollywood to lose. 

I want these untalented, selfish entitled ‘writers’ to lose. They will soon finally learn that the world runs on meritocracy. NOT ON PRIVILEGE. 

[clownrecess]

hey! im sorry if this is a weird ask and you absolutely don't need to answer it if you don't want, but i had a question. in your dni, there's a thing about 'people who use the term "aspie"', and i was wondering why? is there history behind that word i don't know about? (for context, me and my mother are both autistic, and she uses the word pretty freely to refer to herself, so i guess i knda just assumed it was normal lol). anyway, thanks. here's the best frog i could find on such short notice for the trouble. i hope you have a good day!

(TW FOR DISCUSSIONS OF MURDER, NAZIS, ABLEISM, ETC.)

Yes, there is a reason! But first, thank you for the frog!! ^^

"Aspie" is of course derived from the term "aspergers", and that is where the trouble comes in.

Aspergers used to be a medical diagnosis for "high functioning" (ew, functioning labels) autism. The term was coined by Hanz Asperger, who, was a nazi. The autistics he would diagnose with "Aspergers syndrome" were the ones he believed could be useful to him, all the others were killed.

For this reason, aspergers is no longer a diagnosis, it's all just under ASD.

People who use the term aspie or aspergers make me really uncomfortable for all those reasons. Along with the fact that then because of that, "aspie supremacists" became a thing, which is a whole other conversation.

[schizopositivity]

Hey, I'm Curious

Is there a way that being schizophrenic, having Asperger and having anxiety could be related to...ehh... Idolizing...H*tler??

No. Antisemitism, or any other bigotry is not a part of any of these mental illnesses or any mental illness at all. And you cannot divorce idolizing Hitler from what he believed and perpetuated. Idolizing Hitler is a personal belief that someone would have, and that's something they should work through, or get help working through.

Yes things like schizophrenia could possibly make someone more susceptible to conspiracy theories that could lead down a rabbit hole that turns out to antisemitic (no statistics specifically on this but it's possible, just like it's possible for someone who isn't mentally ill). But that's different than fully idolizing a leader of a genocide. And connecting such an atrocious glorification to mental illness only damages other mentally ill people further.

Also Asperger's is an outdated and pretty offensive term to use. Dr. Hans Asperger (the man who coined the term) was affiliated with the Nazi party, and sent many disabled children to hospitals where they would be euthanized. Also a lot of people on the autism spectrum don't like how it tries to differentiate people with ASD based on certain functionality and lack of intellectual disability. And how that has led to many people thinking people with Asperger's are "better" or "smarter" than other autistic people. It's not my place to say since I am not autistic, but I think many people would tell you to just say "I am on the autism spectrum" instead since that is the most current and accurate term.

I don't know if this question is coming from a genuine concern for yourself or someone else, or you're just trying to make connections here for some reason. Either way I just wanna say that as someone whose family was affected greatly by the Holocaust, and who wouldn't be alive today if my family hadn't fled the country and luckily survived, I personally cannot condone idolizing Hitler or trying to justify it in any way.

[adhd-fandom-and-gay]

OH ALSO NOT SURE IF I MENTIONED THIS YET

But I got diagnosed with the 'tism a few weeks ago

And ocd

And I told my friends and they were like 'yeah we sorta knew. Thought that was a given' and I'm like HUH. YALL KNEW BEFORE I DID

And my guardian was like 'oh that makes sense' when my doctor told her and my partner (who I love love loveeeeee so much btw) said that they thought that I already knew I was autistic because they were also autistic and was telepathically pulled towards me

AND MY MIND IS REELING and I look like this now

[changecomesforyou]

Hans Asperger if you weren't already dead i'd kill you all over again

[scorpius-rising]

Was going to do a big response to the person who wrote this, but I checked and they're a terf, so kinda glad I can just block and move on

[harry-the-pearce]

Ok we have a situation. Earlier today, I saw several Instagram posts about being autistic and hunting “sentient gnomes.”

And they all used the phrase “millions wear the hats” a blatant nazi dogwhistle. This means that “gnomes” definitely refers to Jewish people.

I believe nazis are trying to co-opt autistic humor to recruit autistic people. Luckily, it seems most of the comments are well aware of the dogwhistle and aren’t falling for it. If you see these posts, on Instagram or elsewhere, report them immediately.