#asoiaf societies

[gaya-the-k]

Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea

[geekynerfherder]

'Aerea Targaryen' by Audrey Benjaminsen.

Illustration from The Folio Society edition of 'Fire And Blood' written by George RR Martin, published January 2025.

[franzkafkagf]

AEGON II TARGARYEN; Do you really exist if you‘re not liked?

Succession S04E02 „Rehearsal“ / House of the Dragon S01E09 „The Green Council“ / my mind (now) – Paris Paloma / Dead Poets Society / House of the Dragon S01E08 „The Lord of the Tides“ / Strangers – Ethel Cain / Xenocide – Orson Scott Card / House of the Dragon S02E01 „A Son for a Son“ / Tom Glynn-Carney / On The Odyssey by Homer – Emily Wilson

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

The Folio Society presents an illustrated collector’s edition of Fire & Blood

George R. R. Martin’s Fire and Blood, the prequel to A Game of Thrones, joins the Folio series. Explore the Targaryen dynasty with beautiful illustrations, detailed maps, sigils and family trees. A must-have for Westeros fans. ​ Coming 28 January 2025. What’s that in the distance? Is it the brush of dragon’s wings against the clouds? Queen Daenerys’s family tree is a rich one, filled with over 300 years-worth of rulers of the seven kingdoms. In Fire and Blood, George R.R. Martin dissects the Targaryen family’s history through the eyes of Archmaester Gyldayn. ​ This is the ultimate book for fans of the original series; it provides rich context of the family responsible for the world of Westeros as we know it. Plus, there are dragons, and lots of them! Artist Audrey Benjaminsen has captured the Targaryen family like no one else. Her illustrations jump from the page – the absentness in Area’s eyes upon returning with Balerion, the madness in Rhaenyra as she sits on the Iron Throne. This is the definitive edition of a definitive story, one that would surely sit in the library of the Citadel for centuries to come.  ​ PRODUCTION DETAILS Bound in three-quarter blocked cloth with a printed and blocked cloth front board ​ Set in Vendetta with Esmeralda as display ​ 616 pages  ​ 4 full-page and 1 double-page spread colour illustrations ​ Prints 2 colour throughout in black and gold with illustrated chapter openings ​ Printed endpapers ​ Coloured tops ​ Blocked and printed slipcase ​ Additional colour illustration inside slipcase ​ Sized at 10˝ x 6¾˝  ​ Printed in Italy​ UK £110, US/Canada $150, elsewhere £125

[15-lizards]

What are your ideas on what mourning attire is like in each of the Seven Kingdoms?

Everyone predominately wears black, but there’s still small regional differences. In the riverlands, women make their silhouette as flat as possible so as not to draw attention out of respect for the dead. On a similar note, they also cover their hair to some degree or at least braid it to avoid flaunting it. It’s considered to be disrespectful to wear decorative clothing, so nobles will wear basic and loose dark garments, while small folk will wear unfitted and undyed wool and cotton as a sign of their grief being so strong they are unable to do any sort of labor.

Whether a person wears black out of grief or colors out of celebration of life differs in Dorne depending on their specific subculture. Many who are still traditionally worship the Rhoyne might exclusively red (in ancient Egypt red was seen as the color of dry sand and death, while black was the color of soil, and thus fertility and life) However there is a general consensus among the population to cover their head and/or face (how much depends on their proximity to the deceased) out of respect and grief. There is an idea that a person should be shielded from the living world while they’re in mourning.

Both the northern nobles and smallfolk alike have (for the most part) not bent to southern andal values and culture, so most of the population wears white. Bc in the tradition of the old gods, white = winter snows = death. Usually, on the sleeves and hems of the outfits of the mourners, are embroidered rushnyks, which symbols tell the story of the deceased’s journey through life. Usually red, and if someone can afford it, they will also wear a piece of red ornamentation as a symbol of their connection to the dead.

[hylialeia]

everyone who doesn't include the full quote when mocking GRRM's "what was Aragorn's tax policy" rhetorical question owes me $200

[kleoshe]

I started this piece when the election results were rolling in.. just finished it now!

I love you Rhaenyra Targaryen <3

[catofoldstones]

I love how George creates the duality of being low-born v high-born in the asoiaf world. The juxtaposition of Catelyn calling all swords and seizing Tyrion at the unsuccessful attempt to kill her son v Mycah’s father being handed his son’s chopped up body, to the point he couldn’t even recognise that it was his son and not a pig, and still not being able to do anything about it but stay quiet. Chilling.

[horizon-verizon]

People often say Daenerys won’t get any support because she’s the Mad King’s daughter, but this ignores the enduring support for the Targaryens that persists throughout Westeros. There’s a significant base of loyalists and general sympathy for House Targaryen, especially as discontent grows among the smallfolk. In regions like the Riverlands and King’s Landing, dissatisfaction with the Baratheons, Lannisters, Tullys, and even the Starks has grown. The Faith has also grown dissatisfied. Tywin’s men have burned septs, and the capital is reeling from starvation and chaos. The Lannisters’ repeated crimes against both the gods and the people have only made matters worse. While much of this frustration stems from the chaos of recent wars and misrule, it also traces back to the flaws in Robert’s reign. Smallfolks even look back on Aerys with a degree of nostalgia and a sense of favor.

She looked about to see that no guards were near, and spat three times. "There's for the Tullys, and there's for the Lannisters, and there's for the Starks." "It's a sin and a shame," an old man hissed. "When the old king was still alive, he'd not have stood for this." "King Robert?" Arya asked, forgetting herself. "King Aerys, gods grace him," the old man said, too loudly. A guard came sauntering over to shut them up. The old man lost both his teeth, and there was no more talk that night. (ACOK, Arya VI)

This kind of sentiment isn’t new—it’s been a risk since the start of the series. The Targaryens gaining support once they start looking like a viable option has always been part of the story. Even Robert Baratheon, at his strongest, feared this possibility:

"Perhaps. There are ships to be had in the Free Cities, though. I tell you, Ned, I do not like this marriage. There are still those in the Seven Kingdoms who call me Usurper. Do you forget how many houses fought for Targaryen in the war? They bide their time for now, but give them half a chance, they will murder me in my bed, and my sons with me. If the beggar king crosses with a Dothraki horde at his back, the traitors will join him." (AGOT, Eddard II)

Robert’s paranoia underscores the enduring loyalty of Targaryen supporters, many of whom remained dormant, waiting for the right moment to rise again. This fear was not unfounded. Daenerys has everything she needs to rally support: she’s Aerys’s daughter, Viserys’s heir, the mother of dragons, the Queen of Meereen, and she has an army. The stage is perfectly set for the Targaryens to look like the answer everyone’s been waiting for.

Yes, exactly, I agree. A lot of people let the show dictate how they will see the series itself go and use the excuse of GRRM not finishing the books, when they ignore or don't know how to comprehend the clues or suggestions of the text to even try to deviate from their first or early impressions. And/or they are already sexist or have biases they haven't and/or are unwilling to confront, so they are eager to evaluate situations without using the actual text. Annoying.

[tavina-writes]

I'm not exactly sure how I want to phrase this yet, but I think a lot of the utterly weird takes I see sometimes float by me on our cursed blue hellsite (esp when it comes to mdzscql fandom) is coming from a refusal to meet the genre where it's at.

Like, why are we trying to interrogate classism in MDZS society, MDZS is a romance, the societal worldbuilding is just enough to support some general big ideas and the provide context for the romance. We can't get ANY kind of read on general classim/sexism/anything else from. this source material. if you think you can get granular when your sample size of characters from various social and gender strata are so small and we don't know how the vast majority of people in here live you are making stuff up.

Like, meet the story where it's at: it's a romance novel.

[visenyaism]

this is gonna get me put on a list somewhere but if Rhaenyra and Daenerys could have met they would not end that interaction as friends Rhaenyra would be putting Daenerys in the SJW cringe compilation

[atopvisenyashill]

i was thinking more about characters Performing Gender, but not necessarily Transgressing Gender. I wound up focusing on Ned and Sansa bc I feel like I understand them the most but-

Sansa as a hostage is imo the most obvious (bc it’s so well done) moment of someone clearly Performing Gender but not being transgressive in that performance. Which isn’t to say it’s not a complicated performance; it’s a fine line Sansa walks between weaponizing her gender to protect herself without seeming too fake. She’s trying to placate the Lannisters by playing the perfect, dedicated, air headed betrothed because it’s the only defense she has - if she outwardly rebels, she will be punished in a likely violent and/or sexual way (which isn’t even conjecture - when she says “or maybe he’ll give me yours” Joffrey has her struck with an armored hand). She’s not quite successful in being convincing but that’s because it’s a rather extreme situation; despite no one believing her, she does make herself seem meek and stupid enough that no one suspects she’s plotting to escape with Dontos until she’s well away from KL. The fact that she even has Dontos to confide in is because of Sansa’s relationship with gender! When she saves him, she covers her rebellious slip by playing up Joffrey’s intelligence & his role as King; she reaches for “tools” of her gender AND of ~proper manhood~ to save a life and herself from another beating. Her retreats into the godswood and silence are very much Sansa attempting to recharge from these draining interactions, the same way a knight would need to stop and eat and rest after a fight. She is fighting, constantly, by forcing herself to stay within the narrow confines of a specific type of gender performance as a way of shielding herself from harm.

Ned yelling at Cat is another big one, and I’ve seen the scene referred to as Ned using his patriarchal power to scare Cat, which is a great description. It feels like a Performance because Ned is putting on this terrifying Lord Stark mask in an attempt to get Catelyn to stop asking about Jon (and Lyanna). This is not how he usually acts with those he loves! When Ned is with His People, he is welcoming of questions, curiosity, emotion, even transgressive thought (to a point! the idea that Ned is a feminist because he lets Arya learn to fight is Not accurate but you can’t deny he allows significantly more flexibility wrt gender expression than most of the fathers we meet in this series. the bar is in hell tho). Yet when Cat asks him about Jon’s mother, Ned scares her so well she stops asking & still remembers the moment bitterly over a decade later. And if that snippet we see through Bran’s eyes of Ned praying that Cat will forgive him does come after she asks (like it’s suspected), it’s clear not only that this is a performance he’s putting on & weaponizing against Cat, it’s one he does not like using as a weapon against someone he is close to. After using the power his gender gives him to cause harm, he retreats to the godswood and silence to pray and rest, much like Sansa. A spiritual cleanse, the way a soldier may pray after battle, to reset and reconnect Being A Proper Man to Being A Kind Man.

I think there’s something interesting in that two of the characters most widely defined by how well they adhere to Westerosi gender norms both dislike feeling like they had to weaponize their gender. They are exhausted by the performance, because it’s a performance. This isn’t Sansa getting excited over tourneys, or Ned teaching his sons to fight; it’s toxic masculinity, it’s structural misogyny. It’s something they’re good at, excel at, and connected to something they enjoy but when it’s paired with violence, whether done by Ned or done to Sansa, it crosses over in their minds from an innate part of themselves (The Gender) to a performance necessary due to survival (The Gender Role). And that after these performances, both retreat to nature & god as a way of resting and cleansing from the experience.

[catofoldstones]

Reading agot chapters of the stark sisters and coming to the conclusion that they hate each other in isolation from their parents’ understanding of them and society’s rigid expectations on them is idiotic as fuck. They are both classic products of their environments, both familial and social, and their feelings of each are heavily informed by these two things. Please take your Sansa and Arya hate each other because they’re antagonists, and are going to come head to head thematically in the later books, and dump it in the trash where it belongs.

[horizon-verizon]

GRRM masterfully intertwines their Targaryen women’s personal struggles with the larger theme of intergenerational trauma, particularly around women of power being either exalted or demonized, depending on how they fit into the agendas of men. It’s not just about individual characters like Rhaenyra or Daenerys—it’s about how their very existence, and the existence of their foremothers, reflects cycles of trauma that have been passed down within the Targaryen family for generations.

The idea of Targaryen exceptionalism—the notion that they are “gods above men”—adds a fascinating layer to this. Women like Rhaena, Alysanne, and Aerea are taught their whole lives that they are extraordinary, able to command dragons and defy the usual limitations of society. But the harsh reality is that this exceptionalism only extends so far, and when it comes to gender, they are still bound by the oppressive rules of patriarchy. As you pointed out, no matter how powerful a Targaryen woman might be, she is still subjected to the same expectations and limitations that society places on all women. This is especially apparent when we see how they are denied the privileges that their male relatives take for granted—whether it’s being sidelined in succession, forced into marriages, or vilified for their ambition.

Rhaena Targaryen’s story is particularly telling in this regard. She had all the makings of a powerful Targaryen: she rode Dreamfyre, was the first grandchild of Aegon the Conqueror, and should have had autonomy over her own fate. She was a person with some of the highest potential for greatness in ASOIAF. Yet, despite her dragon and her lineage, she was still forced into a marriage with Maegor and eventually pushed aside in favor of Jaehaerys. Her gender determined her fate more than her birthright, and that is a tragedy we see repeated throughout Targaryen history. If Rhaena had been born male, her story would have been entirely different, but as a woman, her power was constrained and her choices were dictated by men.

Alysanne Targaryen, while often viewed as one of the more empowered Targaryen women, also faced limits despite her influence. She advocated for reforms that benefited women, like the abolition of the First Night and the protection of women’s inheritance rights. Yet, even she could not sway Jaehaerys when it came to critical decisions, like the succession. Her daughters, despite being princesses of House Targaryen, were subject to the same patriarchal expectations of marriage and childbirth, and Alysanne’s heartbreak over their fates highlights how even the most powerful women cannot escape the trauma of being female in a patriarchal society.

Aerea Targaryen, perhaps the most tragic of the three, serves as an even starker reminder of this. Her decision to seize Balerion and fly away was an act of defiance, an attempt to claim the power and freedom denied to her as a young woman. But the horrific consequences of her journey—her body physically ravaged upon her return—symbolize the ultimate cost of challenging the gendered structures that confine her. Aerea’s fate, like those of so many Targaryen women, reflects the danger of trying to break free from the roles that society, and even her family, imposes on her. Despite her bloodline and the power of her dragon, she was still a victim of the same forces that diminished her foremothers.

These patterns of trauma and repression don’t just affect the individual women—they become part of the larger narrative that defines House Targaryen. The lives of women like Rhaena, Alysanne, and Aerea contribute to a broader cultural mythos where female power is either exalted or demonized depending on how it aligns with male interests. Rhaenyra’s claim to the throne is undermined by the propaganda that paints her as unfit simply because she is a woman, while Daenerys’s story is filled with echoes of these earlier women who sought power only to be punished for it. The same patriarchy that diminished Rhaena, Alysanne, and Aerea laid the foundation for the later conflicts that would tear the Targaryen family apart, from the Dance of the Dragons to the eventual fall of the dynasty.

Ultimately, GRRM’s depiction of Targaryen women is a powerful critique of how patriarchal societies simultaneously elevate and destroy women of power. For all their greatness, these women are still trapped within cycles of trauma, repression, and violence that transcend their personal struggles and become integral to the history of their house. This cycle continues right up to Daenerys, who, despite being House Targaryen’s last hope, is subjected to the same forces that destroyed her ancestors.

The Targaryen women embody this tension between exceptionalism and oppression, and their stories are a reminder that even the most powerful bloodline in Westeros cannot escape the brutal realities of gendered violence and systemic trauma.

Take notes, all!

[rhaenin-time]

"Ugh, Dany's so entitled for wanting to take back her ancestral seat. She's definitely going to be the villain to the hero Starks. I can't wait until they take back their ancestral seat — they're entitled to it, after all."

[fromtheseventhhell]

I ignore about 95% of the conversations surrounding Arya having killed people because, outside of Arya stans, people refuse to include the context of the very violent circumstances she experiences + her trauma which influences her actions. She wasn't destined to be a killer and her being forced on the run, having to survive during a war (at times on her own), having to witness countless people being tortured and murdered, being enslaved as a prisoner of war, having to witness the deaths of her family, etc. are all hugely important factors. Not to mention the times when her life is literally on the line and she has to make tough decisions to ensure her survival. The only time her trauma is acknowledged is when people are using it to prove she's "too far gone", otherwise it's essays on how she hasn't suffered that much. It's so boring how people ignore well-developed characters just to reduce them to one or two aspects of their story. And this treatment is only for certain characters; let someone mention Sansa being part of the plot to poison Sweetrobin and all of a sudden, people can understand being forced to make questionable decisions under difficult circumstances.