#asoiaf bigotry

[rhaenin-time]

As much as I believe that questioning the parentage of a married woman's chiIdren feels like a witchhunt, I do think it's time we start an honest discussion about the Dance of the Dragons and the legitimacy of the contenders.

Because too often we forget that Alicent's bastards are just as ineligible for the throne as Rhaenyra's bastards.

By Andal convention, only Aegon the Younger and Viserys are eligible for inheritance. Even if Alicent's bastards wanted to push their claim through Daemon, their true father, they could never inherit over his trueborn sons.

In fact, her children are less eligible. At least Jace's claim comes through his mother! At least least Luke was promised to Rhaena and has Velaryon blood regardless. But Alicent, trying to put the bastards of a man who was disinherited on the throne ahead of the King's trueborn daughter? She's fortunate that Viserys was conflict averse enough to show let it pass and quietly keep Rhaenyra, his only trueborn child, as his heir.

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Keep in mind that the question of Rhaenyra's sons' parentage was strongly dismissed by Septon Eustace. But at no point does any reliable source argue that the rumours regarding Alicent and Daemon are fabrication. Instead, we have only the far weaker defense that they're "unsupported."

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Now, I think we can all agree that the most plausible explanation is that, once Alicent worried she might be pregnant by Daemon, she immediately seduced Viserys to cover the matter. Whether this happened before or after Aemma's death, and whether she turned out to be truly with child, is a matter of debate.

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But even on the small chance Alicent did manage to bear a child of Viserys's blood, she should have known better than to put herself in situations where the question could even arise. And Daemon did not help matters with his public display of jealousy.

Because once the truth is out there, there is no way to "prove" that Alicent's children are not Daemon's bastards.

Not only do her children resemble him, but Daemon is a dragonrider. Which means geography is not an obstacle. All it takes is a few moonlight rides, and a quick trip through the secret tunnels, and you have another bastard sired with no one the wiser. And indeed, he did seem committed to secrecy, even taking precautions like distancing himself from Alicent and his bastards in every public setting.

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The question of motive does remain. Was Daemon siring bastards out of true affection for Alicent? Or was it simply a mutually beneficial arrangement because they were both wed to spouses who could not give them heirs? Alicent feared being set aside, and Daemon feared dying without a legacy. And it is noteworthy that Alicent stopped bearing his bastards after he became free to wed Laena Velaryon.

Another interesting area of debate is, of course, Viserys's knowledge on the matter. Some might argue that he affected a willful blindness. But surely he would be understanding of Alicent's predicament if it was he who was no longer able to produce heirs. Indeed, the text does support the theory that he was aware.

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Now, it's pretty clear that while Alicent was comfortable throwing stones from her glass house of bastards, Rhaenyra was not. Be it from feeling above the matter, respect for her father's wishes, or simply a lack of desire to see Daemon's bastards publicly shamed, she seems to have held her own tongue even when faced with Alicent's hypocrisy. Which I find admirable, if maybe a little unhelpful.

I suppose we can give Alicent a little credit. She did originally acknowledge her good fortune of her bastards all bearing a vague resemblance to Viserys. And it seems she even encouraged Rhaenyra and Laenor to hold onto hope that they might one day share that fortune. As long as they keep trying the way she did.

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Or was it in fact, a brazen taunt? A flaunting of her privilege of having bastards that resembled their supposed father?

Regardless of the sentiment behind the comment, it does open up questions regarding whether she'd previously "tried" and "failed" only to end up with dark-haired babes she was forced to send away. After all, with Viserys in such poor health that surely his ability to sire heirs would be whispered about, it was essential they resemble him.

Another question worth pondering is Alicent's true feelings toward Daemon. Did she, perchance, ever entertain hopes of wedding him once Viserys had passed? Of him legitimizing her bastards for the Realm to hear?

But what would she gain? Well, potentially a lot.

What is not disputable is that once she'd given up hope of Viserys installing her bastard above his trueborn daughter, Alicent turned her hopes to usurping Rhaenyra based on her gender. But perhaps she worried that, should she cross that line, Rhaenyra would no longer turn the other cheek. She likely worried that Rhaenyra would point out the obvious fact that Alicent's bastards were ineligible for inheritance.

But Daemon wasn't.

Per the Council of 101, Daemon should have been heir over Rhaenyra. And it's not illogical to assume that Alicent might have nursed hopes of usurping Rhaenyra after Viserys's death (which she did do) and installing Daemon as King. A King whose wife had passed leaving him only daughters — therefore ineligible under the precedent they established. A King finally free to marry the mother of his bastards and name them bastards no more. To name them his heirs.

Unfortunately for Alicent, Daemon had moved on. And not only that, he appears to have set the example for Rhaegar by naming his son Aegon despite already having a son named Aegon! (History truly does repeat itelf!) A message to Alicent that he would never claim her bastards as his heirs.

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Alicent might have thought she was clever in the moment — to select a man who resembled her husband. But it also works against her.

Because her children resemble Daemon. And not just in appearance.

Remember that, when Aenys proved to be a sickly boy despite being ostensibly sired by a man of Aegon's vigor, that was when his parentage was truly put to question?

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But does the opposite not apply? Viserys was in poor health, yet Alicent's bastards did not seem to share those troubles.

Now, you can hardly fault Alicent for bearing healthy children. But that does not mean she couldn't have taken other steps to make her bastards' parentage less obvious. We can credit her with notably dressing them in green as children to avoid easy superficial comparisons, but it seems like her attention, or authority, on the matter lapsed as her bastards grew older.

Why was Aegon allowed to cavort in Fleabottom the way Daemon once had? Why was Aemond allowed to style his hair and clothes so that he resembled a young Prince Daemon? Alicent should have better stressed to them the importance of appearance — and masking appearance. Because she ended up letting her sons undo all her efforts.

Honestly, the more you think about it, the more undeniable it becomes. Undeniable because, I repeat, there is no way to prove otherwise.

Well, I think that's enough evidence for now. I honestly never thought it was worth dwelling on the matter. If Viserys knew, if he made arrangements to keep Alicent's bastards both safe and respected while preserving his line, it truly should not matter.

But the problem is that Alicent pushed too far. Not just by trying to seat her bastard on the throne — something that, unlike with Rhaenyra and Driftmark, she did not have the blessing of the Head of house for nor did she take steps to ensure the line remains intact — but by also then being brazen enough to point her finger at Rhaenyra, knowing Rhaenyra was above doing the same.

Well, I don't think that's fair. And I think it's time we acknowledged it, and put the 'bastard' talk to rest. Honestly, it often feels both disingenuous and steeped in misogyny. And in a world of fundamentally unjust systems, it's best to just accept that these matters should be kept quiet, and resolved within the family.

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

It's so so disingenuous to claim that Dany should have taken the time to separate xyz privileged persons in Meereen because "not everyone sanctioned the murder of those 163 children 😞". Oh ok. So that very wealthy, very influential man did not personally give the order. Maybe he doesn't even have slaves. But riddle me this: Where did their wealth come from? What are the historical foundations of their political power? In a society that continues to practice oppression (and a society where wealth and status is defined by it), how is it that they continue to hold as much influence and social capital as the "direct evil"? None of this is happening in a vacuum. And like....this is a society where the dehumanization of slaves is systemic. It runs policy and economics. And the people in power obviously know each other and support each other (considering the fact that they can keep wealth and influence!!!). So does it matter if xzy didn't give the order? Does it matter if they were not the ones nailing those kids to the posts? What matters is that they saw oppression, did absolutely nothing in the face of it, and continued to benefit from it. They are not innocent. Evil isn't just related to the guy pulling the trigger. The devil is also the one who's standing in the back, watching, and counting his coffers. And it terrifies me to think about what some of you would be saying in the real world, in the face of oppression. "I cannot be held accountable because I wasn't the one who pulled the trigger"....but you continued to benefit from the privilege afforded to you by the oppressive system AND DID/SAID NOTHING. By turning a blind eye, you have taken the side of the oppressor. So I'm sorry sweetie but you 👏 are 👏 part 👏 of 👏 the 👏 problem 👏 big time!

[adolin]

💀 not a Tumblr user but a discord conversation where someone in one of my fandoms started repeating in-universe racism against a culture that exists in the canon uncritically like it was canon fact. When it is supposed to be clear bigotry in canon

ok so one thing about me is that I'm italian. obviously. and there's lowkey a trend among a few italian far right politicians to enjoy high fantasy literature in a racist way, exhibit A our fascist PM who really loves Tolkien — LOTR was published as a one book edition in the 70s with a really weird introduction essay that made it about racial purity and whatever, too weird to get into it . u get it

ANYWAY. the point is. I believe that there are people who just uncritically get into in-universe fantasy –isms for a variety of reasons. like when ASOIAF fans regurgitate weird misogynistic discourse against the female characters that comes from *other characters* like it's a fact. sometimes people are stupid. however. because of the Tolkien racists of Italy and other experiences... I'm just really primed to side eye people who engage with fandom like that. it gives me the ick a bit! I try very hard to not pass judgement on people based on how they enjoy fiction but... 💀💀💀 skull emoji react was invented for moments like this. I am validating you so much

[queenvhagar]

Thank you for answering my last questions about Rhaenyra, Westeros’ traditions and customs, and the Great Houses ☺️! If you don’t mind, I have a few more:

Does denying that the Greens’ reason for taking the Iron Throne was rooted in misogyny mean one is ignoring a blatant point of the Dance?

Is Aegon basing his claim to the Iron Throne on tradition hypocritical, given that he contradicts the same tradition with his marriage?

The "blatant point" of the Dance isn't that misogyny is bad and it's the only reason Rhaenyra lost her throne, something the show would want us to believe. Rather, the point of this conflict as it exists in the text is that the house of the dragon destroyed itself and the allure and power of dragons is ultimately destructive, to those who wield them for gain, and for innocents as well. GRRM set up the most devastating civil war in Westerosi history as one with dragons leading both sides, lead by people of privilege on both sides who sought out more power than they already had, for various reasons. The way he decided to do this was with a brother vs a sister, but again, there is much more to the Dance in terms of "the point" or deeper meaning than just "sexism exists" or even "misogyny destroyed the realm by causing a civil war." GRRM set out to make a point about the nature of power, monarchy, and dragons as ultimate weapons of war. Male primogeniture and the structure of Westerosi society favoring men is a minor aspect of that conflict, to be honest. While there is something to be said about it, it is by far not the main or "blatant point" of the conflict at all. Reducing it to such minimizes and weakens the story, which is one way HOTD fails the story.

As with all of ASOIAF, of course there is commentary about sexism, but the thematic resonance of the story is rooted in its anti-war and anti-monarchy themes that also explore "the human heart in conflict with itself" like the nature of power, the conflict between duty and love, and more. The ultimate point of the Dance is to highlight all of this on a higher, heightened level, giving both sides access to the ultimate destructive weapons in this world, but of course this was lost by the creative team and this is one of the reasons GRRM is so vocally opposing this adaptation: they've dropped all the relevant themes of the story by modifying it so drastically and focusing solely on a simplistic, palatable story of good vs evil centering around sexism, when in reality the conflict is layered, morally gray, and involving systems of power beyond sexism like classism (the huge amounts of wealth and power held by a few and the consequences of their squabble for further consolidation of power and the effects on the majority, the common folk) and racism (specifically with the story of Nettles as a non-Valyrian, Black, common born girl who claimed a dragon and drew the attention of Daemon and later the bigotry of Rhaenyra, directly leading to the God's Eye incident which fundamentally influences the end of the war) (the show could have had meaningful commentary about the Dornish via Criston as well but this was tossed aside as was any meaningful exploration of his character). HOTD also had the potential to explore ableism in a meaningful way via the characters of Larys, Helaena, and Aegon, but of course they rely on one dimensional, harmful stereotypes that solely use their disabilities to portray them as villainous, useless/incapable/infantilized, or worthy of ridicule or embarrassment.

For the second question, Aegon's marriage does actually follow precedent his own family set that was reconciled with the Faith and larger Westerosi society, and it was arranged for various reasons. The history of Targaryen intermarriage dates back to the conquerers, and then Aenys married his children, resulting in an uprising by the Faith that Maegor put down and later Jaehaerys negotiated as a tenant of "Targaryen exceptionalism." By the time that Aegon was married, his great great great grandfather had married similarly, as had his great grandfather, as had his grandfather. By this point in history the concept of Targaryen intermarriage was largely accepted/permitted by Westeros, so his own marriage wasn't seen as deviating from norm or tradition, rather following in the footsteps of his ancestors.

It was Viserys who betrothed the two and insisted upon the marriage, unlike in the show which positions Alicent as the one responsible for the pairing of her children. This was likely done by Viserys for a couple of reasons. First, his own parents were brother and sister, and he saw the pairing of his own children as following Targaryen tradition in order to consolidate power within their own house, especially since both were already dragonriders and it was likely thought best to keep the dragons in House Targaryen or at least Valyrian houses when possible to avoid future conflict. This leads to a second reason why Aegon was married to his sister: Viserys likely saw the division in his own house and wanted to prevent the Greens from finding allies in other houses via marriage pacts. Viserys was ineffective as a ruler for his general placating of both sides and inability to solve the conflict in his house, but he was not blind to its existence. Preventing Aegon, who he knew had a more solid claim based on tradition despite his naming of Rhaenyra, from marrying another noble house who might back his claim, and preventing his siblings from doing the same, likely was a way for him to theoretically avoid future conflict. This is why Aemond and Daeron, despite being of marrying age, did not have any matches at the start of the Dance. There were no further sisters/members of House Targaryen to marry them to, and Viserys wanted to isolate the Greens from alliances with other houses. So no, Aegon's claim based on thousands of generations of male primogeniture via ancient Andal custom and Aegon's marriage to his own sister do not contradict each other or expose hypocrisy regarding traditions. The marriage itself would potentially not have happened at all of the Greens themselves had any say in it, so it doesn't serve as some gotcha moment to expose Green hypocrisy.

[addamvelaryon]

Yeah, he's just a poor victim. 🙄

Ser Criston Cole spoke up. Should the princess reign, he reminded them, Jacaerys Velaryon would rule after her. “Seven save this realm if we seat a bastard on the Iron Throne.” He spoke of Rhaenyra’s wanton ways and the infamy of her husband. “They will turn the Red Keep into a brothel. No man’s daughter will be safe, nor any man’s wife. Even the boys…we know what Laenor was.”

— Fire & Blood

His open hostility and aggression towards children and gay people (who have done him no wrong) actually says a great deal about his hateful nature.

Accounts of the tourney all agree that Cole fought in a black fury and defeated all challengers. He shattered Breakbone’s collarbone and elbow, leading Mushroom to dub him Brokenbones, but the worst injuries he meted out were to Laenor’s favorite, the handsome knight Ser Joffrey Lonmouth, who was called the Knight of Kisses. Ser Joffrey was borne from the field senseless and bloody, and lingered for six days before dying, leaving Laenor to weep bitter tears of grief.

— Fire & Blood

Also, from what I recall, in HOTD it's mentioned that Criston has fighting experience from his time in the Dornish Marches. Which means he would have been helping to oppress actual Dornish people from fighting for their continued independence.

bigot... he shows disdain, and not even to her face 99.9% of the time, towards one person and her children (he ignores them in training and might be a tad tidbit aggressive with them, but we only have the one scene where Harwin was pushing the nerve, so who knows). he calls her a cunt once, after she forced him into, at the very least, dubcon sex, which could have gotten him tortured and/or killed, and ruined his honor...not to mention he's dornish and of a very lowly house that literally everyone seems to look down on/actively hate, so again, bigots not the word I would really use.

oppressed, yes, to certain nuanced extents, as he is a kingsgaurd and everything (but there's also the thing with him being one of the very few non white characters in the whole show and he gets more than dou me the hate than some like... daemon perhaps, just for an example), bigot, no, not in a million years.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

Most asoiaf fans will agree that disability representation matters and will praise Martin for not only including people with disabilities in his story but also making them major characters with POV from the very beginning ( I'm talking about Bran and Tyrion)

And yet , some of these fans will also say that Bran should forever remain in Bloodraven's cave bc they fear he's a threat to their favourite characters' endgame. For them the perfect ending for a boy who is currently insecure about his place in the world and calls himself "Bran the broken" is to remain isolated from the said world instead of returning home and claiming his inheritance as his brother's successor ( wouldn't be a great disability representation to have this little boy become a capable Lord/King since he's first in the line of the North's sucession?)

Similarly, some others fans will vilify everything about Tyrion. Westerosi society was always hostile towards him and most westerosi people consider him a wicked person due to their bigotry towards disability. There is nothing groundbreaking about the arguably most marginalized pov character becoming a villain/ or being rotten all along and I'm glad that's not the story Martin wants to say with Tyrion. I'm sorry ( not really) if Tyrion doesn't fit the traditional picture of hero some people have in their minds but it's clear that he's written to be one.

[hylialeia]

thoughts on the Daevabad Trilogy, short version: holy shit that was good

longer version:

holy shit that was good.

I adored the writing style, the imagery, the worldbuilding, the characters, the character dynamics, and the pacing all the way through. I first picked up this series because of how Global Medievalism talked about it as a stepping stone away from Eurocentric medieval fantasy and it definitely delivered. this is tied with Spinning Silver for my favorite recent reads--which is even more impressive since SS was a standalone, meanwhile this series kept up a consistently high quality across three separate books.

after Fourth Wing masquerading as a rich, complex adult fantasy and then being What It Actually Was, this was an immensely satisfying series to pick up. it skirts the fantasy staple of the Inherently Evil Race/Species that so many works fall into (even asoiaf with the Others) and instead opts to explore in-depth religious and racial prejudices, revolutions, bigotry, power, and privilege in ways that can be frightening for a lot of authors (and readers). I can see why this series would frustrated a large swath of fantasy fans and not just because it steps completely away from the Europe-but-slightly-to-the-left settings that they're so familiar with; people looking for escapism and a palatable black-and-white conflict definitely wouldn't find it here.

that said, I also think the narrative did a fantastic job of showcasing the brutality of oppression, as well as cycles of revenge and violence, without turning into a sermon about how anyone who fights back is Just As Bad as the oppressor. you can sympathize with any faction within the trilogy while still seeing that there's a clear hierarchy. this is a series that asks the reader to be open minded and to sympathize with a variety of people's suffering while still condemning heinous actions, crimes, and ways of thinking. portrayals of violence, swearing, and sex aside, this is where I believe the adult label is earned. the Daevabad Trilogy outshines Fourth Wing in its entirety, actually following through on promises of depth, complexity, and exploration.

I don't think the series reaches into absolutely flawless territory; on reflection, there are a lot of scenes I wish we'd seen happening in the moment rather than summarized or briefly flashed back to. this goes especially for the end of the last book, Empire of Gold, which would have enhanced the pacing quite a bit. there's a bit of rushing through the final battle, and though it's still quite fantastic and follows through on a deal of foreshadowing and character build-up, it definitely feels over too soon. there are also a few loose ends and potential conflicts when it comes to the characters themselves that the series felt too tired to actually flesh out by the end. I can forgive that chiefly because of just how well-rounded and consistent the characters themselves are, even despite those instances.

and holy shit did I adore these characters. I've only seen the barest tip of the iceberg of discourse this series caused (which I'm sure was insane when it first came out), but thankfully the 10 million+ Way More Problematic Characters (that I also love) in asoiaf has made me immune to whatever the hell was going on over there. I also couldn't get involved in a ship war if you paid me.

I think the first book made a good call only having Nahri and Ali's POVs not just from a technical standpoint (Dara's POV wouldn't have added much, and may have even spoiled some meaningful twists) but also in priming the reader for what is the heart of the entire trilogy: their dynamic. Nahri and Ali carry the series whether they're young, platonic best friends who should be enemies, awkward ex-friends who still get a long way too well, or best friends who are deeply in love which each other but too traumatized to admit it. they both stand incredibly well as individuals (evidenced by the fact that they don't even meet until over the halfway mark in the first book), with Ali being a particular favorite of mine from the very beginning. their opposite upbringings yet similar interests made them a fantastic duo, one where it made sense the impact each one would have on the other's journey. there's something so incredibly endearing about their inability to legitimately dislike each other despite their circumstances, one that makes sense based on their already established personalities; they propel the series' most meaningful moments.

for the elephant in the room: as frustrating as Dara's POV could be I found it a worthy and fascinating addition in the later books, one that I think a lot of people missed the weight of if they were too busy excusing him/hating him. his perspective, biased and misguided as it often was, provided so much rich exploration of the trilogy's overall themes: militarism, religious fanaticism, prejudice, free will, just war, revolution, cycles of violence, conditioning and abuse, etc. that so much of this seemed to fall to the wayside in a strive to decide if he was excusable or not (and thus a viable love interest or not) is a huge shame. his ending was, to me, profoundly satisfying; not redeemed but finally allowed to act of his own free will, no longer bound by outside magic or internalized religious obligation. I never violently disliked Dara and Nahri's romantic entanglement so much as I knew it was doomed from the moment Ali had a POV chapter.

the secondary characters were no less engaging for me, especially as their prominence grew throughout the books, antagonists or otherwise. it was refreshing to see Muntadhir and Jamshid's individual characters (and thus their relationship) become a more prominent aspect of the story--again, especially after the tokenism in Fourth Wing. side characters always seemed to have deeper personalities and roles to play, with even early character deaths like Anas having lasting impacts for our main POVs. their presence was as vital to the immersion and depth of the world as much as the setting and imagery--which are also aspects that completely blew me away. from character, technical, to thematic standpoints, the Daevabad Trilogy absolutely amazed me.

final thoughts and rating: if you give me a book where two married characters are in love with the other's brother and expect me not to give it a high rating you're insane. 8/10. maybe even 9/10. go read these books.

[jackoshadows]

ASoIaF Bowen Marsh defenders sound like the typical liberal.

Writing things like "Is he a narrow minded racist bigot who wants all of the Freefolk dead'? Yes, but he also makes good points about the food stocks and many of the Freefolk have done bad things so his racism against the whole group makes sense " .... 😒

Of course this is a fandom where classism is justified as the done thing and actual slavers who crucify children and castrate puppies are defended as the good guys who were unfairly attacked by Daenerys because she upended a regime based on slavery without first getting a PhD in economics. No surprise then that there are folks who think Marsh was in the right and justified in his bigotry.

[darklinaforever]

just wanted to let you know that i appreciate you so much for sharing your thoughts on the acolyte, for articulating how haters use "criticism" as a veil for their bigotry, and for your bravery in doing all that in one of the most toxic fandoms ever. i applaud you because you're an inspiration! xo

Thank you, that’s very kind of you ! And know that your comments are also very appreciated, thank you ! Also, after being active in the ASOIAF / HOTD fandom, no other fandom can scare me I think. 😂 I didn't really / much speak out before in this fandom, but after the case of The Acolyte, it was literally impossible not to make any posts talking about the case of this show which is just shameful in the way it was treated by many.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

This quote really shows just how little Condal and Hess care about adapting the actual story of the Dance. In Fire and Blood, the Dance is about a woman being usurped because of misogyny. That's it. It doesn't matter that Rhaenyra had bastards (literally no one cared other than the greens), or that she married Daemon so soon after Laenor/Laena's deaths, or that she had premarital/extramarital sex, or whatever other reasons TG stans spew out.

By taking George's story of misogyny and the harm it does and turning it into a former friends/starcrossed lovers story, Condal and Hess have completely distorted the message. Now I know they still want to have a "feminist" message, but clearly they're failing, as misogyny it thriving in the fandom and people are being more sexist towards Rhaenyra than the lords of Westeros.

One of the key parts of ASOIAF and it's related works is dismantling the harmful bigotry of the world it takes place in. That means that no, sexism and bastardphobia are not ok even though they're the norm in Westeros. That's the equivalent of arguing that rape is ok because it's considered ok by the Dothraki, Westerosi soldiers/lords, and Essosi slavers. One of the main points of F&B is the message that the conventions of Westeros and planetos are flawed and oppressive. Not that the Targaryens are the antichrist, or that misogyny is actually totally ok, or bastards are evil, or that the houses of Westeros are all great and nothing needs to change just because it's a fictional world.

HOTD has distorted the point of F&B in the name of their shitty rhaenicent fanfiction. They chose to make the issue more "complex" which misogynistic people in this fandom used to "prove" that Rhaenyra actually is evil. They claim to care about feminism and instead support the sexist narrative Rhaenyra's opponents came up with.

To summarize: Condal and Hess' obsessions with rhaenicent and making Alicent an uwu victim have destroyed the message GRRM was trying to send and undermines any "feminist" message they wanted to send.

[rhaenin-time]

Targ bashers are so weird because in-between their rants that troublingly echo real rants about "foreigners" they'll hide behind the argument that "They're essentially evil because of their incest," while they ironically claim that they're also evil for thinking themselves bio-essentially better and then when you point out that all the noble houses of Westeros practice incest they'll jump to, "Oh, but that kind of incest is fine because it's normalized within Andal culture."

[joyfulmagic]

Joyfulmagic — Lettie’s Indie Multu-Muse Roleplay Blog

Indie semi-selective RP Blog! Featuring characters from OCs to Canon Divergency! [Muse List] Featuring characters from: Marvel, History, HOTD/F&B, GOT/ASOIAF, Folklore, Disney, Mythology, & more! Quilled by Lettie (25+) || NO Minors or Personals Low-Medium Activity & Runs on the queue (1 post a day)

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No elitism and/or drama or anything akin to those things please. I avoid and ignore most callout type things.

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

This fandom has a disturbing sense of entitlement when it comes to GRRM and his remaining two books. There’s this horrifying lack of empathy towards this man and it’s genuinely scary. People expect him to be like one of those elves from Harry Potter: he just has to turn his magic on and churn out brand new content, who gives a fuck what is going on in his life? Let me remind the audience that this is a guy in his 70s! Yes, he’s rich. But age and its complications bow to nothing. Not to mention that even if his age wasn’t a factor, he could still be dealing with a lot of mental distress that ANY human would? Do you know how deranged you have to be to say that he cannot be affected by losing a close friend? That he, and his writing, cannot be affected by the state of the world? This is a man whose core thesis statement in his work is, “I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things”. One of the core protagonists in this series has dedicated her entire arc to fighting institutional slavery. One another protagonist has spent five books unlearning bigotry and trying to reform institutions that operate on it. ASOIAF fictionalizes real world issues. And to get there, GRRM has to take note of it and then make commentary on it. Like do people listen to themselves??? What is wrong with this fandom dear god…

[a-throne-of-lies]

about me.

cas/caspian, he / they, 21, autistic & adhd.

writing + asoiaf universe is my special interest. jon snow enthusiast & kind of a targ disliker. THE SPARRS ARE MINEEE

i luv gay people i guess idk. i really suck at intros.

i take writing requests and will also rp if asked. i can and will write for ANYONE!

my muse for asoiaf is andaren sparr ( more on the silly later ).

rules.

no minors pls </3

no bigotry

pls respect my opinions mwah

be nice <3

[stargareed]

I’d like to address a few of the accusations that’ve been leveled against me by members of the asoiaf fandom during my time on Tumblr.

Accusation 1: Stargareed believes in white genocide.

Truth: I don’t believe there is a genocide going on against white folks. Rather, during a debate with a very passionate Dany stan (who I believe was Indian American), the Dany stan told me she hopes there’s a genocide against white people and that me and my family die. I was like, WTF? Is everyone else ok with this? And to my shock and dismay, the majority of people who responded were like, “Yeah, we’re fine with calling for white genovide during arguments with white people. Also, how dare you ‘tone police’ women of color!” This is such an absurd stance, especially coming from people who trip over themselves to make sure they don’t accidentally misgender someone or forget to include trigger warnings, that I’ve raised the issue periodically ever since as an example of the excesses of woke culture.

Accusation No. 2: Stargareed believes in reverse-racism.

Truth: So, this one’s actually true, with caveats. First, regardless of the ethics of believing in reverse racism, reverse racism is very much a legally-recognized concept. So, believing in reverse racism is like believing in gravity or evolution: it exists whether you want to believe it or not. Second, on the question of whether reverse racism actually exists apart from as a legal concept, I mean, yeah, it very much does. Though I prefer the term “racism” over “reverse racism.” To be sure, recently some academics decided to redefine the word “racism” from “discrimination based on race” to “systemic discrimination based on race.” I think this is a post-hoc, arbitrary definition that attempts to exonerate POC from racism (at least in the West). But even if we adopt this new definition of racism, POC can still be guilty of heinous acts of bigotry and prejudice against white people. So, frankly, I’m not sure why this is the hill woke folk want to die on.

Accusation No. 3: Stargareed is a misogynist.

Truth: Under some of y’all’s definition of misogyny (i.e., liking a male character and having the audacity to disagree with women over fandom issues), I am indeed a misogynist. I just happen to think y’all’s definition of misogyny is dumb and diminishes instances of real misogyny.

In conclusion, I promise I’m not the bad guy some folks have made me out to be. I’m center left and like to think I have reasonable, nuanced opinions. While I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, I hope they afford me the respect to agree to disagree civilly, or at least not send me anon messages wishing for me and my family’s murder. While I sometimes make hyperbolic posts stanning Jon the same way folks stan Dany or Sansa (sorry, this amuses me too much to stop), in actuality I don’t think Jon is objectively the best asoiaf character. Rather, he just happens to be my favorite flavor; it really is as simple as that.

[daenerysoftarth]

there’s this common misconception that I see a lot in the asoiaf fandom amongst *certain* groups, which is that bigotry and prejudice against ‘bastards’ no longer exists, and is the product of a bygone era

as someone who was born out of wedlock—ie a bastard—this is absolutely not the case. usually prejudice against illegitimate children goes hand in hand with prejudice against single moms, who are legislated against on both federal and state levels in the US to prevent or hinder their access to certain benefits, TANF of which is particularly notable for its discrimination. which is nothing to say of social bigotry, as I personally can remember people insulting me and my family for as long as I can remember. children and adults

so if you’re one of those people who makes light of so called ‘bastardphobia’ or even draws cutesy fanart of mocking this phenomenon, I just wanna say from the bottom of my heart, fuck you