#as 'merely' the malign influence of a demon because no person would have a Genuine Reason to hate hyrule!

[thecottageinthedark]

#Legend of Zelda#Breath of the Wild#Calamity Ganon#long post#also hot take but even if we accept the conclusion Ganondorf and Demise are connected#Ganondorf is the one bringing the spite#Demise shows very little imagination in the game and basically just goes 'here's how I win anyway even though you beat me'#Ganondorf is the guy who actually has any reason to be pissed and is. in fact. extremely pissed#and it's extremely useful to frame his anger which is partly justified and all a thing that hyrule has to deal with#as 'merely' the malign influence of a demon because no person would have a Genuine Reason to hate hyrule!

also i was curious, after browsing your meta MANY times (because i love your zelda meta so much!), what's your thought about Calamity Ganon? the game as a whole heavily encourages the idea that the man we knew as ganondorf is GONE and there's a tragic loss of the man he used to be, just a corrupted victim of demise's spite, but there's just as much to indicate that ganondorf is deliberately obfuscating his nature, and he simply sees no reason to be a schemer at the moment?

See my hot take on Calamity Ganon (before I get back to meme replies) is that it's an external manifestation; Calamity Ganon and the Blights are sort of puppet avatars that Ganondorf, the person, is speaking through. They always made me think of ghosts- something distorted but unmistakably recreating a form, an identity- and something is watching you through all of them.

The four blights are tailored assassins. They have prescience and calculation to them, and they use this prescience to attack you. This gets even more so when the big man Clamgan is revealed properly- there's just something about the way he swings his head around to stare at Link the first time that feels injected with almost as much personality as "Oh, it's you," from GLaDOS in Portal 2.

So if their intention was to write a Ganondorf who's completely gone and lost, barely the shambles of a person, I feel like, uh, they failed. Instead, they're giving the sense of a ghost dragging itself out from under the floorboards, especially since if you look at Rhoam's story, at the same time he starts talking about the calamity as a mindless monster, he states without pointing it out that Clamgan specifically outsmarted and manipulated all of the factors that were used to hunt him before.

The Guardians? Turned to his favor.

The Divine Beasts? Again, tailored assassins to isolate the champions.

Advancing from without met an army? He crawls out from underneath Hyrule Castle (which. okay. BotW2's trailer suggests this maybe wasn't his goal, but a coincidence of the location of his prison- but he turned it into a hell of a sneak attack)

Like... he is scheming. Both in a practical sense and in a sense that's distressingly emotionally personal. His various manifestations all have red hair- they're all these attempts at pulling himself back together. It's depersonalized, but in the way that a horror ghost is depersonalized- the self is abstracted, rotted, and yet, enduring. The creepy thing about the Malice to me isn't that it's just hunks of autonomous flesh growing all over- it's that they used eyes- one of the most ubiquitous marks in legend of zelda- and made it that for reasons that are only ever implied to you, the entire setting is watching your progress.

A friend of mine even had a disturbing take that it's possible the Guardians are running default patrol routes only because Zelda is partly sabotaging Ganondorf's control over them- because we see evidence in the past that before Zelda's seal went down, they converged on specific targets. Which, again- BotW is a game where Link literally died, and Zelda almost died- in the Age of Calamity side game they emphasize this further.

The allegedly mindless Calamity recognizes specific people and is trying to get rid of them as quickly as possible. I don't think it's obfuscation- I think it's propaganda and denial- possibly even denial of something Rhoam knows about the situation that he won't tell us- that frames Calamity Ganon as a force of nature, rather than anything that has a reason to be tied to the royal family- or any echo of a person the royal family wronged and buried.

So I'd argue he's totally scheming, he's just scheming with- implicitly- limited resources stuck in a box acting through whatever puppets he can steal and placing horrible flesh homunculi in key places.

[pearlposts]

Root Word for Holy The Hebrew word for holy is “qodesh” and means “apartness, set-apartness, separateness, sacredness” and I would add that it should also be “otherness, transcendent and totally other” because God is totally above His creation and His creatures, including us.   Holy has the idea of heaviness or weight of glory.

hagios: sacred, holyOriginal Word: ἅγιος, ία, ον Part of Speech: Adjective Transliteration: hagios Phonetic Spelling: (hag'-ee-os) Definition: sacred, holy Usage: set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.

40 hágios – properly, different (unlike), other ("otherness"), holy; for the believer, 40 (hágios) means "likeness of nature with the Lord" because "different from the world."

The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is "different" – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios ("holy") because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay). In the NT, 40 /hágios ("holy") has the "technical" meaning "different from the world" because "like the Lord."

[40 (hágios) implies something "set apart" and therefore "different (distinguished/distinct)" – i.e. "other," because special to the Lord.]

The English word holy dates back to at least the 11th Century with the Old English word hālig, an adjective derived from hāl meaning whole and used to mean 'uninjured, sound, healthy, entire, complete’." Wiki: Sacred

So this conversation has been up a while, but appreciated the original poster's exploration of the concept 'Holy' and the tension in the dual meanings of the word...based on the various possible roots. I found this exploration of the word Holy from the Hebrew word (kadush) by a contemporary Jewish writer, Avi Lazerson, for the Jewish Magazine (perhaps not authoritative, but interesting none the less): "To understand the meaning of the word "holy" we are fortunate that we understand the Hebrew language and do not rely upon translated texts. The word "holy" is in Hebrew "kadosh". A principle in Hebrew is that all Hebrew words are related through their spelling - different words using the very same letters have connections in meanings. We find a very interesting connection based on the story of Judah, the son of Jacob, who saw his daughter-in-law wearing a veil, disguised as a harlot. The Torah relates that he thought that she was a "kadasha." (See Genesis 38:21) The word for a harlot in Hebrew is "kadasha" and the word for holiness is "kadusha". "This is a difficult thing to understand. How can the same letters (which in Hebrew convey similar meanings) be used for such completely opposite meanings - holiness and prostitution?? "But the concept can be understood simply. A "kadasha" was not a prostitute, but merely a woman who was living with out the bounds of the normal worldly conveniences of marriage. She lived without regards to the worldly laws of conduct. Her conduct was in effect oblivious to the normal rules and boundaries. Her life was not bounded." So given that Holy (from ancient Hebrew) means 'separate / set apart for a special purpose', but with the richer context provided by this Jewish writer perhaps 'separate' means 'not influenced by' versus 'not a part of or outside of the whole.' With that in mind the Germanic etymology is perhaps not at odds with other possible roots of the word Holy...it merely offers richer context. So a richer understanding of the meaning of 'Holy' may include both (Germanic) 'that must be preserved whole or intact, that cannot be transgressed or violated (related to health)' AND (Latin/Hebrew) 'separate (as in not influenced by the whole) for a special purpose.' So a Holy person (or God) could be one who is 'whole with intact/solid boundaries who is a part of and yet not influenced by the whole community (or world).'

The original post that began this thread says that "kadosh" (holy) means 'that which separates'...in Hebrew. This isn't strictly correct. In fact, it means "that which is separate (for a religious/devotional purpose)" or "that which is separated etc." A sacred prostitute (a role found in the cults of "Astarte" or the ba'alim) was called a "kadeishah" (a feminine noun based on the same root k-d-sh). She was "set apart" from ordinary marriage relations. Or, the intercourse with her was for a religious/spiritual purpose, and therefore "set apart" from considerations of adultery or plain prostitution. "Marriage," in rabbinic Hebrew, is also called "kiddushin" -- same k-d-sh root. The bride and groom are "set apart" from others for the religious purpose of creating a family. It might also suggest that the sexual intercourse is being done for a religious purpose, which can and should include personal satisfaction for both husband and wife, rather than for personal satisfaction alone. "Places" -- like the Temple -- and "things" -- like the Temple utensils -- could be "kadosh/holy." Individual people were rarely called "kadosh" (although a couple of such usages appear, regarding prophets). As for the Jewish people being called a "holy people," it's meant in the same sense that a utensil in the Temple was "holy" -- i.e. set apart for a specific devotional use or purpose.

profane (v.)

late 14c., from Old French profaner, prophaner (13c.) and directly from Latin profanare "to desecrate, render unholy, violate," from profanus "unholy, not consecrated" (see profane (adj.)). Related: Profaned; profaning.

profane (adj.)

mid-15c., "un-ecclesiastical, secular," from Old French profane (12c.) and directly from Latin profanus "unholy, not consecrated," according to Barnhart from pro fano "not admitted into the temple (with the initiates)," literally "out in front of the temple," from pro "before" (from PIE root *per- (1) "forward," hence "in front of, before") + fano, ablative of fanum "temple" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts). Sense of "unholy, polluted" is recorded from c. 1500. Related: Profanely.

unholy (adj.)Old English unhalig, "impious, profane, wicked," from un- (1) "not" + halig (see holy). Similar formation in Middle Dutch onheilich, Old Norse uheilagr, Danish unhellig, Swedish ohelig. In reference to actions, it is attested from late 14c. Colloquial sense of "awful, dreadful" is recorded from 1842.

consecrate (v.)

late 14c., "make or declare sacred by certain ceremonies or rites," from Latin consecratus, past participle of consecrare "to make holy, devote," from assimilated form of com "with, together" (see con-) + sacrare "to make or declare sacred" (see sacred). Meaning "to devote or dedicate from profound feeling" is from 1550s. Related: Consecrated; consecrating.

sacred (adj.)

late 14c., past-participle adjective from obsolete verb sacren "to make holy" (c. 1200), from Old French sacrer "consecrate, anoint, dedicate" (12c.) or directly from Latin sacrare "to make sacred, consecrate; hold sacred; immortalize; set apart, dedicate," from sacer (genitive sacri) "sacred, dedicated, holy, accursed," from Old Latin saceres, from PIE root *sak- "to sanctify." Buck groups it with Oscan sakrim, Umbrian sacra and calls it "a distinctive Italic group, without any clear outside connections." De Vaan has it from a PIE root *shnk- "to make sacred, sanctify," and finds cognates in Hittite šaklai "custom, rites," zankila "to fine, punish." Related: Sacredness. The Latin nasalized form is sancire "make sacred, confirm, ratify, ordain." An Old English word for "sacred" was godcund. Sacred cow "object of Hindu veneration," is from 1891; figurative sense of "one who must not be criticized" is first recorded 1910, reflecting Western views of Hinduism. Sacred Heart "the heart of Jesus as an object of religious veneration" is from 1765.

sin (n.)

Old English synn "moral wrongdoing, injury, mischief, enmity, feud, guilt, crime, offense against God, misdeed," from Proto-Germanic *sundiō "sin" (source also of Old Saxon sundia, Old Frisian sende, Middle Dutch sonde, Dutch zonde, German Sünde "sin, transgression, trespass, offense," extended forms), probably ultimately "it is true," i.e. "the sin is real" (compare Gothic sonjis, Old Norse sannr "true"), from PIE *snt-ya-, a collective form from *es-ont- "becoming," present participle of root *es- "to be."

The semantic development is via notion of "to be truly the one (who is guilty)," as in Old Norse phrase verð sannr at "be found guilty of," and the use of the phrase "it is being" in Hittite confessional formula. The same process probably yielded the Latin word sons (genitive sontis) "guilty, criminal" from present participle of sum, esse "to be, that which is." Some etymologists believe the Germanic word was an early borrowing directly from the Latin genitive. Also see sooth.

Sin-eater is attested from 1680s. To live in sin "cohabit without marriage" is from 1838; used earlier in a more general sense.

whole (adj.)Old English hal "entire, whole; unhurt, uninjured, safe; healthy, sound; genuine, straightforward," from Proto-Germanic *haila- "undamaged" (source also of Old Saxon hel, Old Norse heill, Old Frisian hal, Middle Dutch hiel, Dutch heel, Old High German, German heil "salvation, welfare"), from PIE *kailo- "whole, uninjured, of good omen" (source also of Old Church Slavonic celu "whole, complete;" see health).

separate (adj.)

"detached, kept apart," c. 1600, from separate (v.) or from Latin separatus. Separate but equal

demon (n.)

c. 1200, "an evil spirit, malignant supernatural being, an incubus, a devil," from Latin daemon "spirit," from Greek daimon "deity, divine power; lesser god; guiding spirit, tutelary deity" (sometimes including souls of the dead); "one's genius, lot, or fortune;" from PIE *dai-mon- "divider, provider" (of fortunes or destinies), from root *da- "to divide."

The malignant sense is because the Greek word was used (with daimonion) in Christian Greek translations and the Vulgate for "god of the heathen, heathen idol" and also for "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Greek word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matthew viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in Old English, feend or deuil in Middle English. Another Old English word for this was hellcniht, literally "hell-knight."

The usual ancient Greek sense, "supernatural agent or intelligence lower than a god, ministering spirit" is attested in English from 1560s and is sometimes written daemon or daimon for purposes of distinction. Meaning "destructive or hideous person" is from 1610s; as "an evil agency personified" (rum, etc.) from 1712.

angel (n.)

"one of a class of spiritual beings, attendants and messengers of God," a c. 1300 fusion of Old English engel (with hard -g-) and Old French angele. Both are from Late Latin angelus, from Greek angelos, literally "messenger, envoy, one that announces," in the New Testament "divine messenger," which is possibly related to angaros "mounted courier," both from an unknown Oriental word (Watkins compares Sanskrit ajira- "swift;" Klein suggests Semitic sources). Used in Scriptural translations for Hebrew mal'akh (yehowah) "messenger (of Jehovah)," from base l-'-k "to send." An Old English word for it was aerendgast, literally "errand-spirit."

Of persons, "one who is loving, gracious, or lovely," by 1590s. The medieval English gold coin (a new issue of the noble, first struck 1465 by Edward VI) was so called for the image of archangel Michael slaying the dragon, which was stamped on it. It was the coin given to patients who had been "touched" for the King's Evil. Angel food cake is from 1881; angel dust "phencyclidine" is from 1968.

[ganymedesclock]

also i was curious, after browsing your meta MANY times (because i love your zelda meta so much!), what's your thought about Calamity Ganon? the game as a whole heavily encourages the idea that the man we knew as ganondorf is GONE and there's a tragic loss of the man he used to be, just a corrupted victim of demise's spite, but there's just as much to indicate that ganondorf is deliberately obfuscating his nature, and he simply sees no reason to be a schemer at the moment?

See my hot take on Calamity Ganon (before I get back to meme replies) is that it's an external manifestation; Calamity Ganon and the Blights are sort of puppet avatars that Ganondorf, the person, is speaking through. They always made me think of ghosts- something distorted but unmistakably recreating a form, an identity- and something is watching you through all of them.

The four blights are tailored assassins. They have prescience and calculation to them, and they use this prescience to attack you. This gets even more so when the big man Clamgan is revealed properly- there's just something about the way he swings his head around to stare at Link the first time that feels injected with almost as much personality as "Oh, it's you," from GLaDOS in Portal 2.

So if their intention was to write a Ganondorf who's completely gone and lost, barely the shambles of a person, I feel like, uh, they failed. Instead, they're giving the sense of a ghost dragging itself out from under the floorboards, especially since if you look at Rhoam's story, at the same time he starts talking about the calamity as a mindless monster, he states without pointing it out that Clamgan specifically outsmarted and manipulated all of the factors that were used to hunt him before.

The Guardians? Turned to his favor.

The Divine Beasts? Again, tailored assassins to isolate the champions.

Advancing from without met an army? He crawls out from underneath Hyrule Castle (which. okay. BotW2's trailer suggests this maybe wasn't his goal, but a coincidence of the location of his prison- but he turned it into a hell of a sneak attack)

Like... he is scheming. Both in a practical sense and in a sense that's distressingly emotionally personal. His various manifestations all have red hair- they're all these attempts at pulling himself back together. It's depersonalized, but in the way that a horror ghost is depersonalized- the self is abstracted, rotted, and yet, enduring. The creepy thing about the Malice to me isn't that it's just hunks of autonomous flesh growing all over- it's that they used eyes- one of the most ubiquitous marks in legend of zelda- and made it that for reasons that are only ever implied to you, the entire setting is watching your progress.

A friend of mine even had a disturbing take that it's possible the Guardians are running default patrol routes only because Zelda is partly sabotaging Ganondorf's control over them- because we see evidence in the past that before Zelda's seal went down, they converged on specific targets. Which, again- BotW is a game where Link literally died, and Zelda almost died- in the Age of Calamity side game they emphasize this further.

The allegedly mindless Calamity recognizes specific people and is trying to get rid of them as quickly as possible. I don't think it's obfuscation- I think it's propaganda and denial- possibly even denial of something Rhoam knows about the situation that he won't tell us- that frames Calamity Ganon as a force of nature, rather than anything that has a reason to be tied to the royal family- or any echo of a person the royal family wronged and buried.

So I'd argue he's totally scheming, he's just scheming with- implicitly- limited resources stuck in a box acting through whatever puppets he can steal and placing horrible flesh homunculi in key places.