#anyways i love the dynamic of dean absolutely wanting nothing to do with jack. he’s a real dad alright

[luxurystark-jackson]

season 13 is like. this is jack. his real mom is dead and his real dad is satan but that’s okay! because he’s not in this universe anymore.

anyways this is his new dad that doesn’t want him around (so like a real dad) and that guy’s brother who’s kinda like his new mom. oh and then the dead angel comes back to life and now he has two moms, which is an upgrade from no moms. the angel is gay for his dad. and that is just his life.

[schizosamwincester]

OH I HAVE SO MANY. LET'S GO. In order from least to most fucked-up, by my standards. Also yes there is a lot of non-con here. I really like rape fics.

Orion - look, by my standards, "John makes omega!Sam wear a chastity belt" is nothing, but the absolute frustration that comes with that, with Sam being in heat and unable to touch himself and get even a hint of relief? It is absolutely sickening. I don't know how the author managed to capture that feeling so well, but my God, it hurts. (Wincest)

Shimmer and rot - Probably not fucked up enough for this list, but screw it, it's a good fic so I want to include it anyway. Wincest after deanjohn, and Sam steps over Dean's boundaries and triggers him.

the world was so easily won - I don't know if sick is exactly the right word for how this makes me feel, but it's adjacent. The way Dean is willingly just an object passed between Sam and John, that he's willing to make himself a pawn in their rivalry for just the slightest hint of attention? My God. It definitely makes me feel all kinds of ways and none of them are good. (Wincest and deanjohn)

Truth Hurts - Baby Dean tries to earn money for the family without knowing what he was signing up for. John doesn't realize what happened, and so he reopens the wounds. Really nice. (No ships)

then leave me the bones - ugh just. Dean who used to know why he was with John, and now he's just going through the motions. He swears his father is worth saving. He swears the sex used to be good. But right now, all he can see are the ugly parts, and he's killing himself for a man who will never thank him. Just trying to save John from getting into too much trouble and from his own slow decline. Maybe it's just because it's the second one I ever read, but I think this is the best deanjohn fic.

Matryoshka Dolls - okay I try not to recommend anything this long (24k) when I'm doing stuff like this, but I had to make an exception. This is the most complete deanjohn fic. It is so toxic, and what really hurts is how dean believes that the pain is what a good relationship is supposed to feel like. It's just. Exquisite. The most thorough examination of that dynamic. @goshen-applecrumbledore is very talented.

Wire Inside Me - I think this is the best wincest fic. Cis dude Sam is pregnant by Lucifer, and there's all the dread and pregnancy as body horror that implies, but this isn't really about that as much as it is about how it throws a wrench into the Sam and Dean relationship. Because, well, Dean is jealous of Lucifer. And what's really good at this is just how much the whole way Sam is hurting from it all and how terribly Sam copes.

don't say you need me when you leave and you leave again - I can't say a damn thing about this one without ruining it except that it's deanjohn, but it is truly sickening. If you really want it to be good, don't read the tags. Figure it out by yourself. The way the reader has to slowly catch on, and the way Dean won't confront what he definitely already knows deep down, are just so good.

7 - I mean. Come on. I think Lucifer rapes Sam's corpse before resurrecting him and Sam has to deal with the emotional effects of that is the definition of fucked up. Oh and there's good Sam and Jack and Sastiel as well.

cradle of smoke - If you only read one of these, make it this one. Dean pushing himself to give his brother what he needs. It's so claustrophobic in the best ways, and the ending is chilling. I love Dean forcing himself to do what needs to be done until eventually he wants it, and I love the utter atomsphere of dread and inevitability. (Wincest with past samjohn)

until heaven and hell are satisfied - This. This. This. Pregnancy as body horror to the highest degree. Dean was raped and impregnated by a demon and the child is killing him from the inside out. An absolutely flaying fic. Gut wrenching. Dean is not just being literally killed by it, it is also robbing all his sanity. (No ships, but great Sam & Dean fic)

Shattered - A wincest fuck or die that really deeply acknowledges the wild thing about fuck or die — it creates a scenario where both participants in sex are raped. Neither of them want this, but they have no choice, and nothing will ever be the same. Absolutely sickening. Really, really, really good. Highly recommend.

Hard to Love - impressively, the most fucked up fic on this list has no non-con. As per the tags, it's just deanjohn with past destiel and samifer, but I'd say it's sastiel and wincest as well. Sure, the last two aren't having sex, but they sure have their own fucked up dynamics that go well beyond platonic. The basic summary is that Amara brought back John instead of Mary. Saying more than that would spoil it. But Dean, John, Sam and Castiel are all tied up in their own terrible knots, especially Sam, and none of them can deal with their relationships with each other, and in my opinion it is the best SPN fic. It is deeply fucked up from beginning to end and masterfully written.

There's a lot of wincest and deanjohn here and I know you don't really fuck with that (although granted I realized that *after* I wrote all of this. I was like "I know he's commented on my fics, so he prooooobably is an incest person?" which is kind of silly when I write more gen than anything else), but for what it's worth, I'm an aro who tends to like ships for their toxicity and horror. So. It's not like any of these are "incest is good" fics.

@spnyuri and @wastemanjohn have a fair few fics each on this list so I will tag them.

Oh. And I've written a dead dove. I guess I should link that. like the baptism he never had if you want angsty wincest piss necrophilia.

does anyone have fucked up spn fic recs. like horrifying or sickening or upsetting. <3

[thegeminisage]

So like, I was just thinkin bout Dean n John today and if Mary and him were in the boys adult lives again (as per the latest season,) what wud the dynamic be?bcus John doesnt NEED Dean like he used to so I think certain pressureswouldn't be there anymore but hed still be controlling of Dean and try to dictate or manipulate his independence, right? Like those abuse dynamics don't rlly go away but manifest differently, I'd assume?

YES yes yes yes sorry in advance this is going to get so much longer/more off-topic than u bargained for, but like okay i’ve said before i think that half of john’s problem is that he didn’t have mary to be there and be his “john don’t” person for when he’s being a huge asshole. and it’s actually really wild writing this fic i’m doing rn where they’re all under the same roof again bc now that john has mary most of his REASON to be such an asshole is gone, but it’s already sort of solidified itself as habit. so i’ve actually been having a really wild time trying to figure out where he’d push things and be his worst self and where he’d sort of agree to stow his crap because mary is standing next to him and What Else Matters Except Mary

i like to think that since mary was such a distant, hard person sometimes, that to match that john before her death was someone who was very kind and giving and emotionally available - that sam and dean’s natural aptitude for empathy and kindness, in a terrible twist of irony, came from the person who was arguably the one to treat them with the most cruelty

it’s more fun for me if john really was a genuinely good person once upon a time, not because #johnrights or anything but because it’s sort of an example of how easy it would be for sam and dean, who are also good people, to lose themselves and turn into the kind of monster he was. and they ARE capable of being terrible - in fact, i’d argue that john makes sam and dean the worst versions of themselves. when he’s around, kind gentle mild-mannered sam’s temper is on a very shouty and aggressive hair-trigger, and stubborn determined asshole dean becomes a passive people-pleaser. many times when sam and dean fight, it comes back to the different ways john raised them and repeatedly inadvertently pitted them against each other

and also on that note, i do think, for all that i rage about hating 14.13, that john’s character was done best out of any of them - he was teary and fully prepared to self-flagellate (a form of deflecting guilt by making the person you’ve hurt want to stop airing their own grievances so they can console/reassure you, and we know from his journal john is a master at deflecting guilt) and also he was not at all mad about anything anymore BECAUSE HE HAD MARY BACK

it’s sort of like dean in season 13 - in the span of just a few episodes, he goes from wanting to kill jack and kill himself to being the happy-go-lucky fella we see during the brokebacknatural episode. cas comes back and it’s like a switch flipped - it’s practically a full 180 overnight. john and mary’s love story is as real and important to them as dean and cas’s is to us. so once john gets mary back, yeah, no, not only does he not NEED dean anymore, but the source of his pain (losing his wife) has almost completely dried up. so like.......god what is he even LIKE now, you know? what is he like with sam and dean??

you know how in season 12 dean is talking on the phone to cas and he’s like “please help me i literally don’t know how to act around my own mother”? probably like that, except in mary’s case there was no old habit to fall back on, and in john’s case they do still have their old dynamic of drill sergeant/soldiers 

(it’s also important to remember i think that john is only Nice John WHEN HE HAS MARY. if uh for any reason mary takes some issue with his parenting choices and decides she needs a break, i think it’s very likely john would immediately seek out dean to be his mary-replacement again, and lean too hard on him just like he did for all those years she was gone)

but even though john’s MEANNESS is reduced to almost nothing (comparatively lol) when mary is around, i don’t think his levels of ENTITLEMENT would change. that’s a hard 22-year habit to break. like he’ll come back and boo-hoo about how sorry he is about sam and dean ending up where they are (again, this is self-flagellation/deflection) but he’d also feel he had every right to know all about their lives now, what they did when he was gone, a right to tell them what to do now - less in an “ordering” sense and more in a “i know best” sense, but the result is the same. bc of course he would also still think he absolutely knows better than they do even though at this point they’d be practically the same age. 

and like: obviously sam would push against that assumption bc he always has, but i think dean would struggle a lot bc he’s grown up and grown out of his dad’s shadow, and he has people in his life besides john and sam now so he doesn’t have to white-knuckle them so tightly, but he also doesn’t know any...other way to be. like when mary comes back. wtf do we do now, you know??

and speaking of sam: i definitely don’t think dean’s going to be the mediator between sam and john anymore. firstly because sam is old enough now and has had enough distance to understand how that all screwed dean up and is not the sort of person who would want to add to his brother’s pain, but ALSO because i think grownup sam would see letting john piss him off as letting john “win.” post 5.22 sam has sort of mastered his anger issues, and he values self-control so highly as a way to cope with his trauma that letting john provoke him into losing that control would upset him and he’d do everything in his power to avoid it. so no more fighting for them, and no more mediating for dean.

so like, to answer your question finally, i think it would probably be like the old dynamic, but less earnestly. it’s something that’s a fallback, not something that comes so naturally anymore. so it’s the same except there’s all these stops and starts and moments where it chafes. and instead of dean stepping in between john and sam it’s sam (and possibly mary) stepping in between john and dean - not because they’re fighting, but because john is always going to be overbearing simply by virtue of their loaded history, and dean’s family would want to protect him from that (i really dug the way they triangulated around him when he was having a crisis in 14.12, so that’s the vibe i’m aiming for in my fic anyway)

[spn masterpost]

[sastielsfandom]

Imagine with me- rowena was always redeemed!rowena. And somehow she ended up with baby Sam- John leaving him somewhere, maybe she’s his actual mother, whatever. Raising Sam to be a very strong Witch. Their mother/son dynamic would be amazing. They have a run in with hunters (maybe dean, Jack, cas). Sorry that’s dumb, I just love witch Sam and the idea of Rowena being a good mom to him? *chefs kiss*.

I might have gotten a little carried away. Just a teeny tiny bit.

I can see John blaming Mary's death on Sam and him seeing Sam as nothing but evil so one day during a hunt he uses Sam as bait. Only he wasn't aware he was hunting Rowena who has been throwing him off and wasn't even aware he was hunting a witch. Rowena doesn't mind hunters, they're easy to avoid and she's met some that haven't tried to kill her, but this one who left a small little baby in hopes of baiting her? Oh, she loathes this hunter.

She takes the baby and decides she's going to raise this baby, what is the worst thing you can do to a hunter? Raise their offspring as something they would want to hunt, but it was also more than that. She wanted to make sure this baby was never left defenseless again.

Besides one week with the little wee lad and she found herself loving little Sam. She knew his name because the hunter had the nerve to act panicked and scream the babe's name for minutes when the lads crying stopped. He stopped hunting her and moved on with an evil pleased look on his face. She wanted to curse him but she saw another child in the car and she couldn't do it. She wanted to take him with her as well but she didn't have the chance.

The toddler years were spent mostly having fun, learning a few tricks here and there. She adored this small little babe, it became apparent to her quickly that she would always protect him as if he were her own. It was sealed in when Sam called her mommy.

When she decided he was old enough to learn real magic, she was amazed. Much to Rowena's surprise, Sam was incredibly gifted. Hardly messed up on a spell, was always reading, and making his own little spells. When Sam decoded one of her own spells she knew Sam would one day become even more powerful than she and she couldn't help but be a proud mother. It also worried her, she didn't want to fail to keep him on the right path knowing that it would be impossible to stop him if he ventured off of it. She had hope though, she could see this boy was special and goodhearted she would kill anyone who twisted that and turned him into his real father.

Sam didn't like the moving around, but Rowena was honest with him and explained that if they didn't move the consequences would be incredibly sour for them. While they're both powerful, it's best to not let the hunters know that, to avoid a wave of hunters looking for them.

Often times they had to move to a new town because of a hunter learning there was a healer in town and according to them, there had to be evil attached to it. When Sam learned that was the reasoning he wanted to stay and fight but Rowena shook her head and told him no. While they can stay and fight, it wouldn't do them any good. It was best to cut their losses and help someone else.

Rowena never told Sam that he was left as bait from a hunter, it would hurt the lad, and she didn't want him out there for revenge. Simply said his father was worse than the Devil and not another moment of their lives should think about him because he wasn't worth anything.

Sam was fine with the answer because Rowena was a wonderful mother, while they did have to move around quite often, she made sure he stayed for semesters and sometimes school years. She still cares about his education after all.

Plus, while magic was important to them both, it wasn't their entire life.

They took breaks, they sometimes just went to amusement parks, fairs, the beach if they felt like it. Sam Winchester got to be a kid and Rowena didn't punish him for it.

Rowena knew Sam was gifted beyond her magic, she could read something else in the lad. It wasn't active quite yet, but she tapped into it anyway. Demons. Beyond that, there was more, Sam's powers. The demon's contamination suppressed it and was fighting it. Rowena spent her free time learning how to free Sam from the contamination.

When she did, she taught Sam how to control it. It scared Sam for a while, what if he hurt his mom? What if he never could control it and disappointed her? Rowena was sure to tell him she was proud and reminded him she knew how to handle herself, he had nothing to worry about.

By his teens, he knew how to protect himself better than a hunter. He could control the magic he was taught by his mother and his natural powers in him as well. When Sam asked if Rowena was proud she told him of course, not because of any of that, they were amazing feats, but because she was proud of the young man he was becoming.

There was this sense in him though the somethings weren't human, sometimes he swore his friends looked different sometimes like he could see something evil underneath and could smell sulfur. When he brought it up to Rowena he was taught how to expel them with words, his magic, and her spells. The next time it happened black smoke came out and Sam banished them back to Hell. It happened a lot more as he got older.

Sam wasn't sure what reaction his mother would have when he told her he had a scholarship to Stanford, he should've known she wanted to celebrate. She helped him get ready and promised to visit, not too much she didn't want to embarrass Sam, but not too little because she wanted him to know she loved him. It helped Sam a lot knowing that he had a supportive mother even if that's all he had.

Sam did end up realizing perhaps Rowena wasn't his birth mother, but it didn't matter. She would always be his mother. So when she stopped contacting him and he couldn't find her with a location spell, he knew something was wrong and left Standford to look for her. It was difficult to not want revenge knowing this was not her own doing, but he knew he must stay guided by her words.

He spent a lot of years healing people while searching for his mom, there was this one person who almost died from being electrocuted, he healed him even after realizing he was a hunter. There was something familiar about this hunter but he didn't know what. He learned the hunter was looking for revenge for his mother, Sam said he was trying to find his own mother but wasn't seeking revenge. He was just looking for his mom and helping people along the way.

With that Sam was on his own again until he found himself caught with kids who he could see were just like him. Different gifts. All similar stories but he didn't match theirs at all. Their powers barely awoke, he mastered his powers for years. He almost gave in to the demon's words, but he would never be able to forgive himself if he did after all this time.

He wouldn't be able to look into his mother's eyes if he did. He took on the role she would've and taught them how to protect themselves with the little things they had around them and helped them control their powers. It was better for them to be a team than to kill each other off like the demon wanted them to.

When they were about to banish the demon back to Hell he looked at Sam and taunted Sam he would never find Rowena unless he looked for a gravestone, Sam wanted to kill him but simply sent him on his way. He knew Rowena could protect herself from anything and that demons lie. But the battle inside himself was getting so much more difficult he knew he had to find Rowena and soon.

As I said, I got a little carried away. Also, the idea of them running into Dean, Cas, and Jack? Brilliant. I wanted to work it in but this was getting kind of long but it would absolutely work. Hopefully, you liked this. I absolutely want to write more to this and if I didn't already have a story I was working on I would've continued with this one. This is an amazing idea!

[mittensmorgul]

Could you possibly expand on what you meant when you said "what we’ve actually been seeing on screen over the course of the TWO ADDITIONAL SEASONS that have elapsed since we last saw Eileen?" I'm trying to temper my expectations when it comes to her return because I love her so much.

Ah... I meant Sam mourning for her, and then... literally everything else that’s happened over the course of the ensuing two seasons? Everything from Sam’s coming to terms with Mary, with John (in 14.13), with his own life as it stands, with Rowena, with whatever “destiny” had in store for them but now seems more rooted in choice than ever. (that was kinda the plot of 13.19 and the foundation of their relationship since that point). 

But I really also want to caution that one thing Dabb, Bobo, and Buckner said repeatedly yesterday was that these “returning characters” were not going to be the focus of long arcs, you know? I just think it’s a mistake to assume Eileen would be different than any of the other returning characters in that respect. If for nothing else than to avoid horrific disappointment and renewed anger against the show over her.

We don’t know WHEN she will be back, first off. Early on? later in the season? We don’t know HOW she will be back. Will it be in a flashback? As a ghost? Time travel? “was never actually dead but in hiding and what we saw wasn’t actually Eileen getting killed at all?” We don’t know that she’ll be back for more than a single episode, either, or what the context of her being back will be.

I just saw a LOT of people immediately jumping to the conclusion that she will be back, 100% her, and obviously will become regular enough to evolve into Sam’s endgame love interest without stopping to consider that maybe there’s something else planned for her character, you know?

And I... was kind of annoyed by that reaction a bit, tbh. I mean, I love Eileen (heck, before 12.21 every time I’d mention her to Mr. Mittens he would correct me and say, “You mean Mrs. Sam Winchester?” we ADORE Eileen, and legit thought there was endgame relationship potential between them... two and a half years ago), and maybe things would’ve been different between her and Sam if she’d lived, and they had spent the last two years carrying out a growing relationship. But we saw her in TWO episodes before she died. Not to devalue the “we knew they talked regularly over skype all the time” thing, because obviously that was laying some major groundwork between them... but then she died. Sam mourned her, and then he moved on.

I find it gratifying that folks DO feel so strongly about Saileen as a ship, because they literally used Destiel parallels to signal their relationship had romantic potential at that time. But Sam has also been building an interesting relationship with Rowena over the last few years, and having their destinies literally tied together has given an interesting twist to their dynamic. Rowena’s been on something like 37 episodes over the last five seasons, and in that time they’ve gone from enemies, to antagonistic allies, to reluctant allies, to tentative acquaintances, to going through a series of events from Rowena risking her life to save Dean-- and then Sam-- in 12.11, to someone they feel compelled to protect in s13, and someone Sam trusts enough in 13.12 to give her the page from the grimoire she’d been after... 13.19 changes the game again. And now she’s as close to being an honorary Winchester (by CHOICE!) after the events of 14.07 (she still could’ve refused to stay and help find a cure for Jack, but in staying she made a huge personal choice), of 14.14 (wherein she could’ve fled Michael’s offer (maybe...), but her choice to say yes to him was literally framed around protecting the people she’d come to care so much about, but Rowena specifically made it about Sam... so...)

So Sam and Eileen may have hit some highlights of destiel romantic parallels over the two episodes we have of them together, Rowena has been working the long game in that regard... I actually felt offended on Rowena’s behalf that all of this relationship and character growth would be tossed out so Sam could go be happy with someone he had seen twice, more than two years ago... (yes I know he saw her more off camera, but this was OUR basis for their entire relationship). I mean, at that point, why not just resurrect Jessica and let him have his original girlfriend. Or resurrect Sara Blake and let him have her. Or send him back to s8 Amelia.

I guess maybe part of my reaction was based on comments I’ve heard speculating on Dean’s endgame love interest potential... and how irritating it is that people think he’d be happy to just go back to Lisa now if everything was just normal again (I can’t even express how sickened I am by this, going back to the woman who had all memories of Dean wiped from her mind to protect her, so there’s not even any baseline history between them to work from, you know? How the fuck skeevy is that?). And Dean doesn’t really have a comparable “is also a hunter, someone in the life” relationship with someone with that small a footprint on the show, either. I mean, he already has far more history with Jody and Donna, and they’ve never had any romantic coding anyway... I’m just rambling now, but as much as I love Eileen, and absolutely saw potential for an endgame between her and Sam two years ago, I find it a little disturbing how quickly people were willing to just assume she’ll be back permanently now and obviously will be there to become Sam’s romantic endgame partner, as if nothing had ever happened and as if Sam hasn’t had two years worth of developing relationship with Rowena since then...

Not that I think we’re guaranteed for Sam to have some endgame love interest at all, but Rowena is about the closest thing to what I would’ve ever thought could be his endgame partner in that regard... far more than Eileen, even.

But hey, if I’m wrong and Eileen shows up in episode 2 or 3 or something, and isn’t a ghost/memory/hallucination/djinn dream/shapeshifter/literally someone they visit in the past or who is brought to the future or is from an alternate universe or whatever, and if she sticks around for more than one episode before disappearing again, and if they really begin to lay groundwork for her to remain in their lives, then we can disregard all of what I’ve said here. But until I see that actually happen, I’m going to assume that Eileen (literally mentioned by Dabb in the same breath as Adam AND Rowena as someone who will be back... and one of these things is not like the others, in that Rowena is currently ALIVE in canon) is just another returning character “from the past,” who were described repeatedly as basically one-off appearances for s15...

[amwritingmeta]

S15 Hopes and Wishes: Cas

Alright, shall we do this, then? Shall we start the speculative portion of summer, then? I mean, this is speculative hopes and wishes, based in what I can see viable for S15, right? It’s not a prediction. It’s not me saying this will happen. It’s me saying, heyyyyyy, look at what they might’ve set up for! And wouldn’t it be cool if...?? 

Yeah?

Cool beans. (or hot ones) (whichever way you like em)

So.

This thought came into my head last Sunday while I was on a train from Rome to Fiumincino. (highly irrelevantly relevant, but anyway)

Let’s look at where S14 ends and where S15 might pick up when it comes to Cas, yeah? Because, way I see it, Chuck snapping his fingers and that episode being all about how writers lie and how Chuck is the ultimate control freak toxic masculinity bad guy and everything that was pulled on by Dabb in the finale landed in Chuck’s final statement:

Welcome to the end.

Welcome to The End.

See it? Yeah, I know you do, you clever.

The Croatoan virus was basically a zombie virus, right? The croats have the characteristics of zombies. It’s all very fitting then that now, at the actual end, we’re dealing with a zombie apocalypse. I mean, talk about Chuck luxuriating in his own story. Talk about a callback with a twist! 

To me, the narrative of 5x03 was itself a lie, spun by Zachariah, built on Dean’s deepest fears, a worst case scenario meant to manipulate Dean into saying yes to Michael.

And in The End, the dynamics had shifted unhealthily. That episode is all about highlighting Dean’s real internal wants and needs by forcing him to face the aforementioned worst case scenario.

I mean, I’d argue it was all inspired by fears that Zachariah tapped into in Dean, but whatever it was - real or constructed - the intention of the episode remains the same, yeah? To expose those fears to us and to wake Dean up to the truth of what a rift between him and Sam actually means for the bigger picture.

In 14x20, we get Chuck saying yeah, my callback isn’t a replica, isn’t a virus spreading, but rather the dead literally waking, and me ripping apart your legacy because it was all a construct and your choices don’t really matter and there’s nothing you can do to stop me (because more doomsday) but it’s still the marrow of Zachariah’s world, and it’s bound to fuck with you guys the way you’re fucking with my story.

That’s the setup. 

Now to Cas:

What was Cas’ role in The End?

Well... you know, right? Yeah, I think you do, you clever.

And, listen, my horses are so, so held here, but... in The End, Cas is human.

Cas in The End is bitter at how his journey has ended without him really having a say in how. He didn’t choose to give up his powers - he chose to stay and fight with his human friend’s, but he wasn’t expecting humanity to creep up on him as the lack of angels in Heaven meant that the grace of Heaven simply... depleted. In The End, Cas states that he used to belong to a “much better club”, but we know that Cas now, at the very end, would never say that or feel that way. He’s been disillusioned by Heaven and doesn’t even identify as an angel anymore, but rather as a “thing”. 

A thing in between.

And that’s why it would be so fucking amazing if he starts the season human, because Chuck, with that snap of his fingers, will have taken away one of the brother’s more important weapons (Dean this season even said to Jack that they still see Cas as insurance when out on the job) and that’s Chuck’s motivation (one might assume), but for Cas’ individual arc, being pushed out of this state of complacency he’s been in for so much of season fourteen due, in large part, to his deal with the Empty and his canonical fear of happiness, would mean that he’s suddenly put in a place of gaining true perspective.

Perspective on himself, so that he can finally dare to answer the questions Who am I? and Who do I want to be? and answer them honestly, because only when he dares to answer them honestly can he begin to experience true happiness and, once he does experience it, without inhibition, if he’s human he’ll be rewarded for finally learning his lesson, and he’ll be rewarded when the Empty can’t touch him at the moment of real happiness, because the Empty can’t touch him in his true form, because humans don’t belong in the Empty.

It. Would. Be. So. Damn. Beautiful.

*horses held horses held but OMFG but horses held*

Why was Cas being human in The End part of that worst case scenario for Dean? Because of the distance between endverse!Dean and endverse!Cas. 

Our Dean lowkey wants Cas to be human, because Dean wants Cas to be with him and it’s a whole lot of complexity that goes into that lowkey wish, but that wish in its simplest form is that: if Cas is human, Dean might have a shot and Cas might choose to stay. And stop dying. :)

In The End, Cas is human and fighting alongside Dean, but not in the way our Dean wants, deep down, though he’s still too scared to admit it (which is why we’re shown it) (so that we can lowkey understand for him). Cas’ embittered view of humanity is also the absolute opposite of what Dean wants for him, and hey, I’d argue that Dean gives Cas a nickname and starts pushing human things on him immediately because Dean, as representative of humanity for Cas, inherently knows what Cas truly wants, even though Cas doesn’t, and Dean consciously doesn’t either.

It’s the core of the subtext of their love story arc: that they bring out the truth of one another’s core traits and highlight what the other’s core need is.

Faith for Dean.

Humanity for Cas.

But that’s really a different post. It’s just all so very pretty and whatever we get I’m sure it’ll be fucking amazing and highly entertaining and that they will build us a worthy ending, because every person involved on this show wants that worthy ending. 

I just think that Cas becoming human sooner rather than later, and us getting to follow him truly exploring his humanity and learning how to deal with that flooding of emotion and the cravings and the desires... It would make for fantastic fucking story fodder! *human!Cas addict though*

And also, as a deeply personal wish, I suppose, it would be truly profound (especially since last time he ended his stint as a human specifically to prepare himself for war by swallowing Theo’s grace) to have Cas heading into this final battle as a human, in order to prove to himself that he does not need his powers to be powerful, to be useful, to be every bit the necessary addition to the group that he’s always been.

It would be so mind-blowingly head-explodingly fantastic that there are no damn words for how happy it’d make me. And I’d be happy for his sake. 

Aside from that, he deserves to feel accepted into that bunker, just as he is. Just the basic him. Without all those bells and whistles. :) And to understand that he always was. Truly. That he’s not kept around as insurance, because he truly isn’t. But more than that, for him to feel so comfortable in his own skin that he can, finally, accept the truth of this and see the love that the Winchesters have for him.

*yes I know we all want this of course!!*

And with regards for how it should be Cas’ choice to become human, I think it’s just as powerful for him to choose to stay human, if given to choice to have his powers restored. 

You know, he kind of needs to be shaken out of the complacency in order to actually understand what’s best for him, because if he doesn’t gain perspective, it’s very difficult for him to truly understand himself, right?

And I’ve always seen the whole Heaven-crumbling-into-dust bit as a very good and big obstacle to Cas choosing humanity for himself, for any reason (like recognising that it’ll nullify his deal with the Empty, for example) because how could Cas ever choose to do anything that will, ultimately, serve to end the world and end it through enormous suffering? As long as his grace is needed to power Heaven, of course he wouldn’t make the choice to give it up.

But if the choice is made for him...

Oh, it would be too amazing to even consider.

But I shall not say that this will happen, that this must happen, that this is clearly what they have set up for, because I don’t know, I can’t know, this is speculative, this is not a prediction of any kind, it’s literally just a great big old wish, fuelled by hope that we get a long human!Cas arc, rather than a too short one. 

And, yes, to my mind, if all these men are thresholding the way I feel the season finale set them up for, then Cas becoming human would mean a huge shift in the dynamic between him and Dean and it could do such wonders. 

They’re all so ready for a change.

I truly hope they get it as early as the first episode.

*fingers crossed for momentum*

[elizabethrobertajones]

Ok so if all four of them are gonna be in a *cowboy themed* motel in 13x6 they're gonna have to split up 2 and 2 right??? So I'm really gonna need Dean and Cas to share a room and then have a convo that's reverse of the "Talk to me" one in S8 where instead they talk about how they both did feel suicidal but how they've both overcome it. ~For reasons unknown~

That would be great mirroring, and it’s always good to compare the fun episodes where things seem back to normal to 8x08… However… Sorry, but this is a bummer reply, I’m just not good with leaving off things like this :P

I sort of feel though that neither Dean or Cas got to completely overcome things in their respective paths through dark other worlds… Cas said he’d just keep fighting and even if the standing up was an important part, he acknowledged he was going back with a sense of hopelessness that he’d get what he truly wants - and that’s just how it was in the Empty, while it sounds like he may have forgotten the experience so it’s for now a metaphorical state he passed through and we got to see it vocalised and it probably means roughly where he’s up to. But the despair of resolution, the fact need/want has been called out for US to know it’s a major theme but Cas of course hasn’t actually talked face to face with any Winchester, let alone Dean, to resolve need/want, which is the core of his depression, thematically… He’s come back with levelled up determination and a will to live, which is great, but there’s so much work to do before he feels happy even if he DOES remember the Empty. I’ve written ridiculously long things tracking his arc so I’ll just say that this was a great step forwards for him but in no way actually resolving anything. 

For Dean as well, Billie sent him back but it was with the “work to do” order/motivation that’s made Dean and Sam power through a lot of their worst times, and like how in the Empty nothing new was actually said about Cas, it just brought everything up that was troubling him so we’d get a sample of how he feels, that was just repeating the theme for Dean that he started this season on - that at best he’s going to feel like a guy doing his job, because someone more important than him told him he had to and he can’t stop now. 

Billie’s words are the sort of advice he got in season 7 after Cas (and then Bobby) died, from Bobby, Frank and Eliot Ness, all of which was a variation of the same sort of nihilism about doing the job because it’s the job and you’re the one who does it. I’m in most agreement with the meta I’ve seen that Dean didn’t go into that whole mess looking for a reason to die, he just was in that state Bobby described: 

BOBBY:I want to talk about your new party line.

DEAN:Party? What are you talking about? I don’t even vote.

BOBBY:“The world’s a suicide case. We save it, it just steals more pills”?

DEAN:Bobby, I’m here, okay? I’m on the case. What’s the problem?

BOBBY:I’ve seen a lot of hunters live and die. You’re starting to talk like one of the dead ones, Dean.

DEAN:No, I’m talking the way a person talks when they’ve had it, when they can’t figure out why they used to think all this mattered.

I’m picking on this conversation because it’s the most detailed but also because it’s the one Dean has WITH Bobby so in no way shape or form can it be about Dean losing Bobby, except that of course this episode gave Dean and Sam both a private conversation with Bobby about where they were at, so we could have a good last moment with him each, and also to gauge how they’d react to his death (Dean with this massive depression caused by losing Cas and his betrayal to pile on top of) and Bobby’s last advice apply after as well. His advice being:

BOBBY:Come on, now. You tried to hang it up and be a person with Lisa and Ben. And now here you are with a mean old coot and a van full of guns. That ain’t person behavior, son. You’re a hunter, meaning you’re whatever the job you’re doing today. Now, you get a case of the Anne Sextons, something’s gonna come up behind you and rip your fool head off. Now, you find your reasons to get back in the game. I don’t care if it’s love or spite or a ten-dollar bet. I’ve been to enough funerals. I mean it. You die before me, and I’ll kill you.

Cheery. 

But this is essentially what Billie does for Dean. She reads him, sees he wants to die, and he tells her that he doesn’t matter, so she reassures him that he has a job, that he is important, that he’s in this cosmic position of responsibility. It would almost be encouraging, to know you’re not meant to die that day, that there is a reason for you to be alive. But not for Dean in the state he was in then.

Cas coming back is GREAT and of course it’s going to make Dean wildly happy. But he’s been feeling this way about the job a long, long time in ways that aren’t to do with Cas at all but is just his underlying major trauma that you can see coming from a hundred miles off in season 1:

from 2x09:

DEANI’m tired, Sam. I’m tired of this job, this life … this weight on my shoulders, man. I’m tired of it.

[…]

DEANI just think we should take a break from all this. Why do we gotta get stuck with all the responsibility, you know? Why can’t we live life a little bit?

Or this speech from 2x20 I contractually have to quote at least once a month as a card-carrying Dean!girl:

DEAN All of them. Everyone that you saved, everyone Sammy and I saved. They’re all dead. And there’s this woman, that’s haunting me. I don’t know why. I don’t know what the connection is, not yet anyway. It’s like my old life is, is coming after me or something. Like it like it doesn’t want me to be happy. Course I know what you’d say. Well, not the you that played softball but… “So go hunt the Djinn. He put you here, it can put you back. Your happiness for all those people’s lives, no contest. Right?” But why? Why is it my job to save these people? Why do I have to be some kind of hero? What about us, huh? What, Mom’s not supposed to live her life, Sammy’s not supposed to get married? Why do we have to sacrifice everything, Dad? It’s… Yeah…

(And, side note, it really annoys me when people make 2x20 about brotherly wuv, platonically or not, because THAT is why Dean decided to go un-wish this life, not because of anything to do with AU Sam, who he still trusted he could find his Sam in >.> I’ll just keep repeating this until I stop stumbling over the idea… :P)

He’s had similar smaller moments like this but season 2, 7 and now 13 are his grief seasons, so I’m most interested in these parallels. Like, just in general. Specifically in season 2 because he was dealing with John’s order to save Sam or kill him, which of course is a dynamic that Jack could horrifyingly repeat for him if Dean gets attached to a kid with the same horrifying destiny. Specifically in season 7 Dean was dealing with losing Cas and it immediately struck him to the core, that even while Cas was still Godstiel he was having mirrors with his season 2 self after losing John:

DEANSounds good. You got any leads on where the demon is? Making heads or tails of any of Dad’s research? Because I sure ain’t. But you know, if we do finally find it - oh. No, wait, like you said. The Colt’s gone. But I’m sure you’ve figured out another way to kill it. We’ve got nothing, Sam. Nothing, okay? So you know the only thing I can do? Is I can work on the car.

[… five years elapse]

SAM: So, what? Try to talk to him again?

DEAN: Sam.

SAM: Dean, all we can do is talk to the guy.

DEAN: He’s not a guy. He’s God. And he’s pissed. And when God gets righteous, you get the hell out of the way; haven’t you read the Bible?

SAM: I guess…

DEAN: Cas is never coming back. He’s lied to us, he used us, he cracked your gourd like it was nothing. No more talk; we have spent enough on him.

SAM: Okay.

DEAN: Hand me that socket wrench.

Dean didn’t lose the car this time, just had Miriam deface it with “Bitch” on the window and the car was washed and shiny in a couple of episodes. But it’s metaphorically a similar process and I guess all they had time for when 13x01 was about taking time in a very different way, by giving Dean like 10 minutes at the end of the episode all about how he was grieving Cas. 

Anyway, I think there’s a lot of thematic overlap in what it means for Dean right now, with Billie’s reminder of his position on the cosmic ladder, to John’s order about Sam, to Dean’s responsibility to deal with Cas and the Leviathans, which eventually crystallises into his mission to kill Dick - and though Dick kills Bobby, finding out who is the head leviathan in 7x09 really just seals the deal of who Dean needs to personally kill to deal with everything, and the Bobby thing was just an extra motivation to fall into a revenge mindset, but it also about what happened with Cas (and when Cas comes back, he has to help kill Dick for the same reason it all happened to him and he was connected to it and responsible). 

We really haven’t seen anything yet, but I think getting Cas back is a temporary fix at least to a bigger issue, which is Dean’s burden of the world, which Chuck lumped on him in 11x23 and made me very, very excited that Dean’s duty to save everyone was hopefully going to get some microscopic treatment and maybe one day some sort of resolution. I don’t think Billie’s comment was a pick me up, and it reminds me of how Cas started picking on Dean on Heaven’s behalf in 4x01 - telling him they had work for him. In 4x02 Dean complains a lot about how he hates being singled out and it’s absolutely horrifying that he was saved for unknown reasons. And those reasons turned out to be being Michael’s vessel and one of the 2 grenade pins needed to be pulled on the planet being destroyed.

(Which we have some handy visuals for and reminders of in the AU world right now :P) 

I’d hope in the long run Chuck’s orders end up being destroyed as much as John’s were, because the parallel is 1 to 1 except bigger scale, and Chuck telling Dean the world has him to protect it literally in God’s own place is an absolutely horrifying unfair burden than broke him in season 5 and can be directly equated to how season 2 broke him when Sam, who was basically his whole world at the time, was lumped on him with the same burden. In the mean time, Billie’s adding to the weight on Dean, although long run she’s neutral, commenting on it rather than ordering, and seems to have some confidence that he has a purpose and will fulfil it, I can see Dean struggling with it in just the same way he took Cas’s comments in 4x01. 

So even if he seems happy to get Cas back, the root problem of his depression, his sense of being worthless, is still truly about how he defines himself as a hunter and the guy who is supposed to save everyone - who will trade himself for a house of random ghosts he feels he LET DOWN by not investigating well enough sooner. Because he has sole responsibility to fix the planet.

The job is killing Dean literally and metaphorically, and the grief of losing all his loved ones as they do it is just an additional awful, awful part of it. Not getting Cas back immediately thanks to Chuck in 13x01 just confirmed how alone Dean is in the world to him, and he directly mentioned the line from 11x23 when reaching out to Chuck… Getting Cas back and Cas returning seemingly on his own steam is going to be a nice turning point, and good for uplifting Dean, but the core problem remains and since 11x23 I’ve been pretty certain that Dean’s endgame is NOT to be a hunter… Billie also now makes me think he has some purpose to fulfil, and ideally, fulfilling it would let him finally get off the cosmic ladder and be who he wants to be without obligation. 

About all I can really speculate about that hopeful endgame would be that Sam seems to be lumped in with Dean on this, but Cas is literally outside the system based on how he got himself back from the Empty without Chuck’s interference, OR except for in thematic “rewards” or dramatic irony from just missing him really hard, Dean didn’t actually bring him back by DOING anything, and Jack, who is also outside the system in some ways, did instead. But that’s all a huge mess right now :P Need more data. 

So anyway, to go back to Dean and Cas next episode? I think they will have a lot to talk about but it has to be immediate character stuff about their actions and desires. They are both really good for each other and going through very similar emotional territory so I hope they get honest and tell each other how they’re doing, but I don’t think they’ll be talking about overcoming anything. I think if it does mirror 8x08 it MAY be a reversal that Dean admits how bad he was doing without Cas, and Cas is still too uncertain about what happened to him or with a link to make it directly about Dean to reciprocate the sentiment… For all the good communication lately I’m not entirely sure if Dean and Cas can absolutely knock down all the walls. 

And I seriously fear dramatic interruptions to their reconciliation just because of the extremely vague episode descriptions we have after 13x06, which seem to  be concealing exactly what happens in that episode… I’m really expecting silly cowboys for like the middle half of the episode, with the first quarter for reconciliation and getting onto the job, and the last quarter or five minutes for shit to completely hit the fan in some way, probably about Jack, and probably involving Cas since he’s specifically not mentioned in the episode descriptions *even though they just got him back*. 

I’m not worried or wanky about this, I’m just bracing myself for the next round of drama and what its subject will be. If Cas is fine and hanging out with the Winchesters still for 2 episodes and it was redacted spoilers for the sake of 13x05′s last 5 minutes that’s awesome :P But it sounds like time to brace yourself not to expect everything to be fluffy or resolved, either with plot stuff, or emotional arcs. We’re only 5 episodes in so the drama needs to keep on happening, and there’s no way Dean and Cas can or should overcome their arcs about their depression when it’s been set up so interestingly, just because they’re hanging out again.

But it WILL make them feel a lot better in the short term. :D I’m really excited for what they WILL say to each other, I just feel like in some ways we’re really starting to put the cart before the horse on identifying what stories are being told and what moments are being offered to tell them, and assuming the stories are over just because something really dramatic happened. I’m seeing it a lot with all sorts of thematic threads, that just because they’re becoming obvious or surface level or have had a really dramatic moment all about them, they’re being wrapped up as we speak. Instead I think it’s got to all be set up for the rest of the season, where this is all important stuff to know, but the real work hasn’t even begun yet :P

[thebrightestwitchswandworks]

Thoughts on 13x01, 13x02 and 13x03 : Sam-Dean dynamic.

Disclaimer : I am a Supernatural fan, fiercely loyal to the brothers, equally loving and supportive of both, genuinely accepting of every character there has ever been on the show and shall ever be in future. I respect everyone’s choices to ship/or not ship, appreciate/criticize, like/dislike any or all characters or basically view the show with any lens they’d want to and have whatever opinions or views they might have on the characters/show. That being said, I’d like to share my few cents.

Since my love and commitment for the show is undying and unconditional, I know I’d watch anything that they’d give me no matter how good or bad it may be. After S12 which disappointed me greatly, I went in for S13 with absolutely zero expectations and hopes. And that could perhaps be the reason why I’m satisfied with the way S13’s been going so far. I think after 12 seasons down, if the show is STILL able to offer me satisfactory content if not great enough, I think I’d take that because truth be told, writing ain’t an easy feat. 

Although, I both realize and agree that SPN writers could do a MUCH better job than they have been doing and its very obvious that the show is still kicking in because of the J2 and network’s agreement to still keep working on it and thus, keeping it on air. So, the lazy and hazy job in the writing department especially with regards to S12 didn’t quite surprise me. Anyway, since S13 doesn’t seem to be on the disastrous route for now (and I hope it never goes that way), I’ll appreciate it for doing well so far.

I think I belong to the minority population of the SPN fandom which just doesn’t believe in and can’t wrap their heads around the whole Dean vs Sam ruckus (or even the Jensen vs Jared) that seems to arise every now and then. We’ve had the brothers be on the same page for almost a greater part of previous season and it was about time, they’d had some differences and disagreements. You know why? Because, it’s ONLY NATURAL. Because this is how relationships and families work. No one’s always ever together, no one’s always agreeing with each other the whole time, no one’s always ever feels or thinks the same at every given instance.

BOTH brothers are right in their own light, both brothers make sense from the perspective they’re seeing things as, both brothers are acting or doing or saying about things from a very experienced and personal space, both brothers do exactly know what they’re talking about or why they’re doing what they’re doing. That’s precisely the cause for the friction, for the arguments, for the disagreements and for the differences.

Dean absolutely has NO reasons whatsoever to believe that Jack isn’t evil. The fact that remains is Jacks IS indeed Lucifer’s son. There’s bound to be an innate connect and there’s bound to be evil inside of him because he’s the spawn of evil himself. He didn’t even get enough space to mourn for his mother and best friend’s death who he believes are dead as he has no reason to believe otherwise and they’re thrusted with the responsibility to babysit, to quote Dean, ‘the Antichrist’. Even with the enormous amount of pain, agony, anger and grief he must be in, he’s still functioning and pretty well at that.

Does this mean Sam isn’t grieving? Of course he is, just as much as Dean is. He’s lost his mother and friend too but to him, they don’t feel completely lost yet. While Dean has no reasons to believe that Jack isn’t evil, Sam TOO has no reasons to believe that he is. Makes perfect sense to me, doesn’t it to you? Why so? Because Jack, essentially, is a clean state. Dean and Sam throughout their whole lives have battled through the entire nature vs nurture conundrum. They have encountered Angels who were outright evil, they have encountered Demons who sometimes go out of their way to do good things (HELLO CROWLEY!), their whole world and their entire existence just screams out loud of one key word that it all eventually boils down to no matter what you’re born as or what you’re told to be are; CHOICES. Sam is a staunch believer of that, an complete and absolute believer in the ideology ‘it doesn’t matter who you’re, it only matters what you do’. That’s just how he’s lived through his entire life, that’s how he survived, that’s how he conquered, that’s really who he is. Dean, for fact that I’m extremely sure of, believes in the EXACT same thing too.

But the only thing that’s holding Dean back is that slightest chance or possibility that Sam can still see of Mary being alive in the AU, of having Cas back somehow again, of somehow fixing everything back because it’s that what the Winchesters do. Now, Jack isn’t just some inter-dimensional can opener to Sam like Dean said. Dean said so because he’s hurting but for Sam, Jack is like fresh clay that can be moulded into something beautiful if the Potter wanted to or if he could. To him, Jack’s this human being that Kelly gave birth to who has inherited powers from a supernatural entity/father and he believes that this particular combination doesn’t always necessarily have to be apocalyptic. And he’s willing to take up this responsibility of encrypting Jack with the correct values so that he may contribute in doing good to the world.

These differences have nothing to with how much does Sam love dean or how much does Dean love Sam. These two brothers have lived and died for each other. There’s nothing to prove to anything to anyone here. They may be having a knockdown, drag-out fight for now but I personally see beauty in that too for when they will eventually join hands towards the greater good and brotherhood like they always have, it’ll be AMAZING. Dean and Sam know every fibre of each other’s being, they know each other inside and out so much by now but with each difference of opinion or with each argument, with each passing day and with each or difficulty or challenge, they’ll only understand each even better. All we need to have is, the episode title itself; patience. HELLA PROUD OF YOU MY BOYS! <3