#anyways GAY!!!!!! QUEER!!!!!! they are in queerplatonic love together oh me oh my!!!

[juszt-a-liddol-guy]

if u make fun of his height, he WILL pick you up and not put you down sonic. smh

[ineffable-endearments]

Okay. Now I'm going to submit some theories about how I think Crowley and Aziraphale specifically are going to go in the future of Good Omens.

Again, this post is not really...specific theorizing about plot events. It's big-picture stuff.

With that said, this post will get a bit heavy at times, in the sense that it will contain opinions that not everyone will like. It drifted into rambling about queerbaiting and all that stuff. I'm not going to spam anyone's dashboard with drama over it, but it's very possible someone else might try. It's also not really a negative post, depending on what you want to hear, I suppose. But if you're only in the mood to read fluff today, you'll probably want to pass it up.

Oh! Also it's very long, and sexuality is discussed in a vague way that doesn't involve any story elements or body parts.

For starters, I don't think Good Omens 2 - or even 3, if that comes about - is going to have anything explicitly sexual or romantic between the two of them, where "explicit" is things like the characters giving outright definitions of their relationship or outright discussing exactly what goes on between them, either on or off-screen. I also don't think there's going to be kissing or "hooking up" (come on...that person on Twitter shouldn't have even asked). Those actions are too blatant for what Neil has already said about the series. While they technically leave some room for interpretation, they probably don't leave enough.

I DO think it's quite possible other characters will continue to define the relationship FOR them and Crowley and Aziraphale will continue to not deny it.

As far as the queerbaiting debate, "is Good Omens queerbaiting"...it's gonna depend how you define it. I always learned that queerbaiting was basically where the creators intentionally make it look like a character is gay or otherwise queer but then swap that character development out for a cis identity and hetero relationship at the end. The point is that the "bait" leads to queer audiences being actively hurt. That's the behavior that seems awful to me, and I don't see Neil and company doing that.

However, I think it's far and away the most likely option that it will be left up to interpretation whether Crowley and Aziraphale are, you know, a buddy duo or a romantic couple or some sort of ineffable queerness all their own off-screen. So if your definition of queerbaiting is "the characters seem gay to us, but homophobes can tell themselves they're not," then yes, I think that debate will follow us to our graves if we let it.

I am a cisgender, possibly straight (?? demi/bi? I might never find out) woman. There is absolutely no way I could ever tell anybody, ESPECIALLY not gay guys and nonbinary people - the people Crowley and Aziraphale tend to resemble the most - how to feel about their treatment in the story. All I can offer is that I'm one flawed individual and there are things I have the emotional capacity to handle and things I don't. Crowley and Aziraphale as both a canon construct and a fandom pairing mean an absurd amount to me, and I can't hang around in spaces where people are constantly talking about how my own interpretations of them are not enough, or how the story is written with ill intentions. I don't want to stop anybody from venting about it, but I am going to be removing myself from those situations.

I like to imagine 1990 NeilandTerry, or TerryandNeil, as a sort of two-headed God who came up with Crowley and Aziraphale, set them loose on Creation, and now are watching them get up to way more ridiculous stuff in the brains of their fans than they'd ever imagined in the first place. I like to imagine them watching, amused and bemused, as their creations fall in love in thousands of universes, and saying, "Well, we didn't specifically Plan for this, but we did promise free will."

This is psychoanalytical toward a public figure and is therefore a bit dangerous, so please take it with an entire mountain of salt, but I sometimes think perhaps Neil sees some of his and Terry's friendship in Crowley and Aziraphale, and suspect that he wants to reserve the possibility that they could be platonic because he and Terry were platonic, while at the same time leaving room for the fans to have their own interpretations, too. Because if there's one thing that comes up really frequently with Neil, it's his belief in imagination and how much stories matter to people. He can have his little corner of the universe where A and C reflect himself and Terry, and we can have...literally anything we want, as long as we're willing to extrapolate just a little bit from canon. It's not even that much extrapolation! It's just "Yes, they love each other, so what exactly does love mean to you?" and if love means kissing, well then, if we can think it, we can have it.

Given that Neil has written LGBT+ characters before, I think he has non-bigoted reasons for wanting Aziraphale and Crowley to remain undefined, and given even the small chance that those reasons may involve the grieving process for a dead friend, I believe it is unkind to argue with him about it or hold his reputation hostage over it.

With that said, do I want canon kissing/hooking up/all that stuff we put in fics? Listen, I can't deny that I do! Personally, I'd be over the moon. I'd probably be so happy I'd have to go to the hospital to get sorted out. Even the thought of it makes me giddy and light-headed, because that physicality is a part of my own experience of love.

However, there are a lot of people who would feel left behind if that happened. Ace and aro people in the fandom whose love for their friends and partners is just as strong as mine, but who are sex-repulsed or just don't want to see kissing on-screen. The loss of Crowley and Aziraphale as a pairing who are extremely easy to interpret as queerplatonic would be hurtful to them, and I do not want to see them hurt like that. I don't think Neil does, either.

So, once again, the "best for everyone" option becomes a really strong canon relationship based in both narrative function and profound affection, which has genuinely thoughtful queer undertones and leaves open the logical possibility for romantic or sexual encounters but does not insist that they must happen. People, especially fans who are super invested, tend to have an easier time imagining scenarios that take place off-screen (e.g. kissing, sex) than they have erasing scenarios that they've already seen in canon (e.g., if someone wished they could continue viewing it as an ace relationship but they were shown "hooking up"). Also, while relationships are super emotional and extremely subjective, I'd argue that in a long-term adult partnership, the non-sexual connection is more important than the sexual one. As a fan, I'd prefer to extrapolate "they love each other so maybe they'd have sex" rather than "they're sexually attracted to each other so maybe they'll intertwine their whole existences together."

It probably isn't necessary to add, but I will anyway: I'm aware that Good Omens is sort of sacrificing social leverage - the ability to whack homophobes over the head with canon if they try to deny the show's queerness - and is thus not really contributing to making specifically gay relationships more widely seen and accepted. However, I don't think all stories have to invest heavily in every social issue they touch on for them to still be meaningful. I also do think Good Omens is an excellent example of a relationship that is extremely profound without being heteronormative.

I don't think the next season is going to be a rom-com. It will likely not even be a "love story," where the definition of "love story" is "a story that follows the development of a relationship and employs certain plot beats to make its point." Remember that conflicts and breakups are key to love stories, so if it IS a love story, then we're going to have to watch the relationship get challenged in ways some of us might have thought were already resolved in season 1! And while that could be thrilling and ultimately very good, it would also be likely to undercut some of the careful headcanoning and analysis we've already done. Any sequel is going to do that to some degree, but a second love story would probably do it a lot, with interpretations that people are even more protective of.

I'm sort of thinking the next season is likely to be a fantasy-heavy mystery, only because those are the two concepts Neil's introduction led with - an angel with amnesia who presents Crowley and Aziraphale with a mystery. Crowley and Aziraphale's connection to each other can still absolutely be a major theme! It can still be the thread stitching the plot together! It just probably, in my opinion, won't escalate and escalate and escalate like it did in season 1. And it will probably be woven in there among a lot of other plot threads that are, in many moments, louder. Still, I'd love to be left with the impression of these two existences, the light and the dark, subtly becoming more intimate, subtly growing more comfortable in this shared place they've chosen in the universe, gradually starting to behave like they know they aren't alone in the world anymore, all while other things happen to and around them.

Nonsexual physical intimacy - a really great hug, or leaning together on the sofa, or a forehead touch, or something like those, something that could happen in a lot of different kinds of relationships but is undoubtedly based in deep trust and affection and a desire to be close...that's the dream, for me. Oh, how lovely it would be.

Of course, I could be just absolutely, embarrassingly wrong about all this. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[pumpkinpaix]

damn you're so good at these slow burn/enemies to lovers/fake dating trope asks!! obviously there's no wrong answer but as soon as i read yours i realize that whatever you've said is perfect and completely accurate. has anybody asked you about wwx and lwj yet or are we all just unwilling to think of either of them outside the context of wangxian? i guess i'll be that person and say wwx, lwj, and mxy?

HAHAHAH thank you i am a longtime veteran of the art of crafting theoretically plausible self-insert scenarios :’) what else is imagination for am i right :D

but WOW OK YOU’RE REALLY COMING FOR MY BLOOD HUH

fake date: mxy because he’s gay and maybe having a beard will help him escape the horrible fate that societal homophobia has condemned him to, and then we get married as queerplatonic life partners or something and live a happy and fulfilling life and no one ever hurts him or me again. we date other people and our family expands into a larger household and we start our own tiny sect full of queer people THE END.

wangxian has to happen concurrently and requires a lot of plot development that hinges entirely on uhhhh my theoretical abilities as a cultivator (so what im saying is rip, unlikely) HEAR ME OUT

slow burn with wwx. we’re childhood friends or something (on the streets??? idk) but lose track of each other when we join different sects (for the sake of this plot, it’s most convenient if i’m in gusulan HAHAHAHA imagine that) somehow and reconnect at the cloud recesses during the carefree school days. it’s very exciting!! there’s a lot to catch up on!! we get closer!! the plot plays out as it does!

enemies to lovers with lwj because of the aforementioned slow burn with wwx. understandably, lwj hates my guts but is a Good and Righteous person so never actually does anything terrible im just anxious and terrified of him because i very much respect hanguang-jun!! he is a Good and Righteous person and also??? the ergongzi?? oh no what have i done to earn his Dislike oh NO. anyways shit goes down with the wens and i volunteer to go or whatever because in self-insert land, I’m brave and cool (lmao). lwj and i are forced to spend time together and bond through trauma he hates me less and i’m less terrified of him and it’s great. we return to the cloud recesses as friends, even!

the plot continues to unfold etc etc. wwx dies and lwj and i complete our enemies-to-lovers run bc now we’re bonded through trauma AND mourning AND our mutual love of someone who’s just died. wwx returns and we both complete our separate slow burns with him and this ends with us in a poly relationship. that is the ONLY way i can see this as even slightly plausible bc otherwise like. i could never. break up wangxian??? pls i couldn’t

yes i spent real actual time and brainpower trying to wrangle this into a detailed semi-conceivable plot ANYWAYS hope….. you enjoyed this

slow burn/fake date/enemies to lovers?

[ineverhadmyinternetphase]

Pride

AO3 Link

Genre: Oneshot. Fluff, minimal angst, QPR verse

Summary: Fiction. It’s Manchester Pride, and Dan is feeling a little insecure. Part of @phandomficfests Pride flash fest

Warnings: Discussions of sexuality/queerplatonic relationships

Word Count: 2000

A/N: As ever, thank you to the wonderful @charlottekath for being the best QPP ever and reading this over for me ^_^

Reminder that I don’t know Dan or Phil at all and I’m not suggesting this in any way reflects reality. This is a work of fiction

…

Pride.

Dan stood on the balcony and looked out over Manchester, biting his lip. He had his arms folded over the railing, his eyes downcast to the city that was decked out in rainbows. Bunting hung across the streets, stalls already in place with people setting up floats and food and celebratory gifts. The march would be coming through there later, just below Dan’s feet.

Dan bit his lip and retreated back inside.

Pride. The word itself warred its way within him, battling against his feelings. It’s weird, it’s different, it isn’t normal and you’re not normal for identifying with it. Dan grappled against the inner voice telling him those things, telling himself that it was wrong. He was slowly coming to terms with his own queerness – he shuddered internally at the word – but it was difficult to ignore when he was in a relationship with another man.

The people in his dorms hadn’t had a problem with it, apart from one guy who wouldn’t stop staring at Dan when Dan let it slip in the crowd that he had Phil, and then he’d got up and quietly left in the middle of watching a film.

Dan had never seen him again.

But still, Dan was coming to terms with it. He could hold hands with Phil in the street now and fight down the shot of terror that accompanied it, could talk to his mum about how Phil and he had to get rid of a wasp from their shared bedroom and not listen to the part of him that said she’d be disappointed. The people around him had made it clear that he was still Dan, that it didn’t matter to them who he was in a relationship with as long as he was happy.

And Dan was happy – blindingly, deliriously happy – but he couldn’t help but wonder whether people’s opinions would change if they knew exactly what his relationship with Phil entailed.

QPR. He’d finally found a word for it that he was happy with, after months and months of internet searches and googling and reading other people’s experiences to know that he wasn’t alone. He knew now that he wasn’t alone, that there was a word for what he and Phil were, but he also knew that he couldn’t drop into casual conversation that he had a queerplatonic partner and expect other people to understand.

That’s because it’s weird and wrong, that small voice inside Dan whispered.

He did his best not to listen to it.

Dan turned around and went to curl up on his beanbag, the one that Phil laughed at and said looked like the most uncomfortable thing ever. Dan liked it, though. He liked to curl his long limbs up and feel small for a little while, like he didn’t have the weight of worry and fear and life hanging down around him. He could lose himself in a game for a while, maybe Skyrim, maybe something else – something fantasy, where he wouldn’t have to think about today and all it meant.

Pride.

Manchester Pride was a big event. They got pop singers and famous dancers and people who all came out to celebrate, big and bold and adventurous and everything Dan felt like he couldn’t be.

Would he even be welcome there?

Dan bit his lip, curling up further and hearing the balls inside the beanbag shifting against him. A hard knot of worry lay curled in his stomach, had been there since he’d woken up. Thankfully he’d been able to roll over and press himself up against Phil’s side, wind his way under Phil’s arm and let him cuddle it away for a while. But then Phil had had to go to the shops because they’d both forgotten to buy milk yesterday and Phil needed his coffee before he could properly start his day.

Dan was left alone for a little while, and it was enough time for the doubt to creep in.

Pride. Part of Dan wanted to race out there and join them, leave this enormous tower block of a flat building and head out onto the streets. To celebrate with the others like him. To finally reach out and be proud of who he was, to feel deep within him that he was right, that he belonged. Part of Dan wanted to rush out there and never look back.

He frowned and pushed that part down, tucking it away somewhere deep behind his heart where he wouldn’t need to think about it for a while.

Besides, even if he did – even if he did go out there and join the others in celebration, they’d still be celebrating something he wasn’t. And the thought of all the sexual humour, the over-the-top costumes, made something deep within him gag. He didn’t like the thought of sex, or anything remotely to do with it, and so much of Pride was so highly sexualised that he knew he’d never feel comfortable there.

Maybe they weren’t really his people. He was asexual, he knew that now, had found the word online and felt his chest loosen up. There were others like him, other people who didn’t quite fit anywhere. He’d seen the talk online that aces didn’t belong in the queer community, didn’t have a right to that word. It didn’t help the warring within Dan’s heart.

Maybe he didn’t fit anywhere. Maybe he was too weird.

The front door slammed shut somewhere behind Dan, making him jump. And shortly after he could hear Phil cheerily talking as he toed his shoes off in the corridor and wandered down into the lounge where Dan was still curled up on the bean bag.

“It’s busy out today, you’ll never guess who I saw in the shop,” Phil said, heading straight for the kitchen to put the milk in the fridge.

“Who?” Dan asked, hitting pause on his game. When Phil came home he got all of Dan’s attention, seeing as Dan was still getting used to the fact that they lived together now. That whenever he wanted Phil, he could usually just turn around and Phil would be there, and even if he wasn’t, they’d both be going to the same home at the end of each and every day.

It was a comfort.

“This guy dressed in a gimp suit,” Phil laughed. “Bright pink. Reminded me of your old video, which is still really weird, by the way.”

Dan squirmed a bit in his seat. “You should have stopped me.”

“It wasn’t up to me what went on your channel,” Phil shrugged, coming over to the lounge with the smirky smile on his face that Dan loved. “You’re responsible for all the atrocities. Hi, my name is—”

“Don’t you even,” Dan threatened, wriggling around on the bean bag to give Phil the full effect of his worst death glare.

Phil, much to Dan’s chagrin, simply laughed in his face. “Sorry. Not helping you with that one.”

“It’ll be for Pride, anyway,” Dan huffed, folding his arms and turning his face away. “Nothing to do with me.”

“Oh.” There was quiet for a moment, in which Dan refused to look at Phil and Phil sat in confused silence. Dan bit his lip, squirming internally. He didn’t need to let Phil in on his worries anymore, much as he knew Phil would listen. But a large part of Dan still believed that he didn’t deserve Phil’s attention, especially not on matters like this.

An even bigger part of Dan was afraid that Phil would confirm his fears, or simply wouldn’t understand him at all.

“Oh,” Phil said again, quieter, and then a hand was touching Dan’s elbow. “Did you want to go?”

Dan froze.

Out of everything, he hadn’t expected those words to come out of Phil’s mouth. The quiet parts of Dan fighting each other inside him got slightly louder, the raucous invading.

He swallowed it down and asked, “Really?”

Phil nodded, and when Dan braved looking over at him, he was giving Dan a long, gentle look. One of the ones that stopped Dan’s heart, that made him feel like everything was going to be ok despite the constant battles inside his head.

“If you want to,” Phil said, his voice going soft in the way that he only reserved for Dan. “We don’t have to, I just thought I’d let you know the option is there.”

Dan bit his lip, glancing away again. “Do you think we’d even be allowed?”

At that, Phil gave a short laugh. “It isn’t a contest, Dan. People go who feel comfortable going, who want to celebrate. If you want to do that, then we can go.”

Did Dan want to do that? He wasn’t even sure himself. Part of him did – part of him wanted to be loudly happy, to show off the miracle of a relationship he’d found with Phil, the person who made him feel like everything was right even if the inside of his head felt wrong. Dan wanted to show that off, to show the world how lucky he was, how Phil was his and nobody else’s.

“What about the people on YouTube?” Dan asked, his voice turning a little bitter without him meaning it to. “If someone sees you know they’re going to assume we’re gay.”

“Well, we’re not straight,” Phil said with a small smile, a slight twinkle in his eye that made Dan want to melt.

“I know, it’s just,” Dan sighed, flopping backwards in the beanbag, Phil’s hand falling off his shoulder. Dan missed the contact, reached out to grab his hand himself. “We’re not… like that, either.”

People were going to assume they were having sex. That they were a normal couple. But we’re not, Dan’s mind told him, We’re not normal.

His mouth tasted a little sour.

“Dan.” Phil shuffled closer, sliding along the floor until he could see Dan’s face. He intertwined their fingers. “We don’t have to go, or we can go, and the only people that matters to is us.”

“But what if other people tell us we can’t be there?” Dan mumbled, wriggling. “We’re just – it feels like we’re so invisible, and part of me really wants to go out there and prove that we can exist – but then the other part of me…”

Dan cut himself off before he could say is afraid. The other part of me is petrified.

There was silence for a few moments, and then Phil shuffled closer still, until he could get an arm around Dan and turn to face the television with him. He handed Dan his games console. “Then we’ll stay here. We have nothing to prove to anyone, Dan, not unless we want to.”

Dan bit his lip, those words humming in his brain. The war inside him calmed down slightly. Not unless we want to. He didn’t have to have anything to prove. Maybe he and Phil couldn’t just simply… be.

For now, that was enough.

Dan scooped up his games controller and handed Phil the second one, switching games. “Alright. I’m going to beat your arse at Mario Kart.”

Phil groaned loudly, but he still took the other controller. It was moments like that when Dan realised just how much he loved Phil.

---

Later that evening, photos from Manchester Pride came out, and Dan, being the slight masochist that he was, looked them up. And among the shots of ecstatic people with rainbows painted on their faces, he found a pleasant surprise.

A purple flag. People wearing purple shirts, purple face paint, purple hair dye. The word Asexuality printed out on signs for everyone to see.

Visible.

Dan bit his lip, nudged Phil in bed next to him.

Phil, half-asleep, blinked blearily at the screen. “’M’not wearing my glasses.”

“It’s ok,” Dan murmured, his heart full. “It’ll keep ‘til morning.”

He saved the tab in his bookmarks before going back to his browsing, the war within him calmed, at least for a little while.

[thealpacalypse-archive]

Erstmal alles gute zum Burzeltag!! And than all of the asks for the ship ask thingy cause I'm nosey as heck!

thank u friend!!!!

NICE i love talking about my ships (even more than talking about myself :D)

what is your absolute favorite ship?

Ummmm hard to say??? favorites are. impossible. right now i’m fully back into StormPilot tho because Star Wars got me back in its grips, and also queerplatonic!JediStormPilot (bc i love Finn and Poe being romantic as heck together, but my bby Rey is v aroace and v happy to queerplatonically cuddle with her two dork boyfriends or fall asleep on Finn’s shoulder.

Then there’s also Ringsy (Ringo and Easy from Unter Uns) which is trash, and i’m fully aware it’s trash, but anyone following me can see that i also completely sold my soul to this ship whoops i live for my asshole bi boy and my pure gay cinnamon roll and i got no regrets

but i guess when it comes to all time/long time faves, I also have to say George Squared from Call Me Katie, and WolfStar (Remus and Sirius) from Harry Potter. 

what ship do you hate most?

r*ylo. and noorhelm from skam. Basically, any ship that puts my lady faves with abusive asshole creeps.

what was your first ship, and what fandom is it from?

uuuhhhhh *sweating nervously* my very first ship, before i even knew what shipping was, was Lisa/Rokko from Verliebt in Berlin (for anyone who doesn’t know: that was the german telenovela version of Ugly Betty). 

my first proper ship after that was Draco/Harry. yupppp i was one of those people………

is there a ship that you used to ship, but don’t anymore?

Drarry is definitely one of those. I also used to ship a couple of rarepairs in HP that i don’t really care for anymore, like Ron/Draco, Ron/Blaise Zabini, Remus/Severus (cringeworthy, i know, but to my defense, that was before half blood prince) and stuff like that. I also used to ship Johnlock a lot, but I lost interest in BBC Sherlock, so i don’t really care anymore.

what’s a ship you like that most people don’t?

ummm Jonathan/Steve/Nancy from Stranger Things maybe? And Nancy/Barb. Oh and Rory/Jess in Gilmore Girls - which, I know, there are loads of people who ship that, but there are also loads of people who have a very strong opinion against that ship. 

Also, maybe Cho/Harry/Cedric?? Idk how most people feel about that, it’s not a very well known ship or anything, and I mostly ship Harry with Ginny anyway, but I do like the idea of their dynamics.

and ummmm this probably doesn’t count, but in the webseries Project Green Gables, I ship Anne with Reggie Gardner, which. Ummm. Reggie Gardner is not really a character that exists yet, but it’s just my version of how I imagine Roy Gardner in this adaptation of Anne of Green Gables. It’s not really fair to say that other people don’t like this ship because how can they, if this character only exists in a few of my posts but not really in the show??? but anyway, doesn’t matter, because Anne/Gil is still OTP and they’re definitely endgame

what’s a ship you hate that most people like?

huh. well I guess I don’t really hate it, but like i said before, to me, Rey is aroace, so I don’t really care for romantic/sexual FinnRey. but like, everyone, do your thing.

oh, but i definitely don’t like mike/el in Stranger Things. I haven’t seen s2 yet, but uuuggghhhh it just weirds me out and makes me uncomfortable, the way heteronormativity gets pushed on El, who would be the perfect character to explore breaking boundaries beyond the binary and the normative rules of society about girlhood and sexuality and all that.

what is the most underrated ship, in your opinion?

Basically, all femslash ships??? Like, I used to love MorGwen back in my Merlin days, but there was so little content for them, and while I love Merthur, too, it was extremely unbalanced. 

Also very underrated: friend-ships. like damn, i friend-ship Joan and Sherlock in Elementary so much!!! I dig all the friendships in B99!!! I need more friend fic!!!

what is the most overrated ship, in your opinion?

ummm idk probably johnlock and destiel?? this is definitely nothing against people who ship it. i have shipped both of these. i just got tired of seeing people fall for the queerbaiting, and still holding on to impossible hope. I get how we’re all desperate for representation, and it’s absolutely vile to drag us into shows with promising pairs and amazing chemistry, and then just teasing us for eternity without ever going through with anything - i get that’s not the fault of the shippers. but i’m just tired of queerbait ships. give me real queer representation damnit!!

oh, also kylux. I’m just not feeling it?? honestly, Hux hates Kylo, and Kylo is an angry manbaby, there’s just nothing appealing about this ship to me at all.

so, those were the ones I could reply to without you giving me any specific pairings. if you want me to reply to the rest of them, you gotta give me one or more pairings to go with :P

thanks for these, they were so much fun!!

[professorspork]

STORYTELLING TIME (bc the riverdale hiatus is boring): tell me about 2 of your fav riverdale ships, 2 of your fav characters, 2 of your favorite scenes out of all 7 episodes, and tell me about the pairing you last shipped/just started shipping. a detailed analysis, 10 paragraphs, i don't care. just tell me.

HECK YEAH MAN I CAN DO THIS FOR YOU

THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SCREAM

2 fave riverdale ships

let me tell you about BETTY AND VERONICA

listen, okay

l i s t e n

i was not going to watch this show.

(and then i saw josie mccoy’s face and was like BUT BUT BUT and a friend had to tell me she’s barely in the pilot and to calm down, and then i didn’t plan to watch it anymore)

and then i saw it

the world’s fucking tenderest kiss to maybe ever be on television, which is JUST UNFAIR FOR EVERYONE DON’T YOU THINK??

camila mendes has a talent, is what i am saying, and that talent deserves so much appreciation that it actually got me to watch this show

(THOSE LIPS. THAT THUMB. CHRIST.)

anyway. my favorite thing about the beronica kiss is that it has absolutely nothing to do with how much i ship it. it’s just a weird fever dream bonus to everything about them that i love.

VERONICA IS JUST SO INCREDIBLY IN LOVE WITH BETTY. FROM MOMENT ONE. the train to the rest of my life speech is legit some of the gayest shit i have heard in my damn life.

i love how dedicated they are to one another. i love how they balance each other out. i love that riverdale took the classic “naughty and nice” dichotomy they had from the comics and turned it upside down and shook it, and this is what fell out

they just so clearly thrive off of each other’s energy. i love that.

but you know what i also love?

let me tell you about VERONICA AND CHERYL

i honestly thought for a hot minute there that i wouldn’t have interest in this show beyond beronica

and then 1x05 blessed me and watered my crops and cleared my skin and SHOWED ME THE LIGHT

it turns out, veronica directing her attentions at literally anyone is kind of all i need, and cheryl’s my GOTHIC HOT MESS OF PURE EXTRA and i adore her, and i hope one day they move into a new mansion that has a name and adopt war orphans or something.

2 fave characters

obviously you can tell i have a lot of feelings about veronica lodge, so maybe this doesn’t need saying but sorry too bad buckle up because

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THE LOVE OF MY LIFE, VERONICA LODGE

ironically, i spent most of my life solidly team betty.

“but Leah,” you say, “you love poor little rich girls who are POPULAR but SAD ABOUT IT and SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT. cordelia chase! quinn fabray! glinda upland! summer roberts! you very clearly Have A Type!”

i know. i know i do. but i was BLINDSIDED man

i would die on a battlefield for veronica lodge.

because not only did this show give me “REGRETS HER MEAN GIRL PAST” veronica lodge. it over corrected so hard it gave me the bounty of MOM FRIEND VERONICA LODGE

MOM FRIEND VERONICA RUBBING CHERYL’S NECK THROUGH A PANIC ATTACK

MOM FRIEND VERONICA WRAPPING ARCHIE’S WRIST AND KISSING HIS BOOBOO

MOM FRIEND VERONICA IS NERVOUS BETTY DOESN’T GET ENOUGH SLEEP

MOM FRIEND VERONICA MAKING KEVIN PUT ARCHIE IN THE VARIETY SHOW BECAUSE JUSTICE FOR HER SMOL STAGE-FRIGHTENED SON

MOM FRIEND VERONICA LIKE “YEAH POLLY CAN LIVE IN MY HOUSE NO BIG”

the one thing i am weaker for than a sad popular girl is a girl who dances on the edge of the selfish/selfless line, who has such a big heart that she loves EVERYONE but maybe not quite as much as she loves herself. the rose tylers and rachel berrys of this world

oh wait there’s another thing i’m weak for and that is TINY BRUNETTES

veronica lodge was engineered in a science lab to hit every single one of my buttons, is what i am saying

now. i want to be very clear. i adore betty cooper, and no one on this show is more entertaining than cheryl blossom, and kevin keller is the most represented i have ever felt on television, but there was really only one other person i could say is my fave:

let me tell you about MY HOMELESS ASEXUAL SON, JUGHEAD JONES

“but Leah,” you say, “Jughead’s not canon ace in this show”

to which i say they can pry jughead’s lack of libido from my cold dead hands, until he says aloud on screen “i, forsythe pendleton jones the third, love doing the sex and it is my preferred method of having intimacy with my romantic partner” he can date whomever the heck he wants because, ASTONISHINGLY, ace people date! and kiss!

besides the point but aNYHOW

this kid is a fucking trainwreck and i love every inch of him

i love his ridiculous dedication to his aesthetic, i love his shitty novel, i love how much he loves his sister, i love his fwoopy bangs, i love how his reaction to being told his best friend is fucking their teacher is “wow dude sounds like you’re the victim of a sexual predator, do you need help?” rather than a high five, i love the way he delivers one-liners like he’s kind of trying not to laugh at his own jokes

riverdale isn’t riverdale without juggie

2 fave scenes out of all seven episodes

let me tell you about THE SCENE CONFIRMING KEVIN AND VERONICA’S QUEERPLATONIC LIFE PARTNERSHIP IN WHICH THEY GO ON MARRIED FRIEND DATES

honestly, and i truly have no excuse for this, you said “what is your favorite scene” and the VERY FIRST THING that popped into my head were these moments with ronnie and kev in the back of his father’s truck, which is ridiculous, mostly because they’re not even really a scene

but it’s just. it is so fucking satisfying, man. look at these precious babies. look at how many blankets they’re under. not only is her head on his shoulder (HERE’S ANOTHER LOOK FROM THAT ANGLE) but EVERY PART OF HER is touching EVERY PART OF HIM. he is SITTING on her CAPE. do you have any idea how much trust that entails?

what strikes me about this moment is that Riverdale is succeeding at convincing me that these kids--any of these kids, really, not just kevin and veronica--are friends. that they all enjoy spending time together, that if there weren’t a murder going on they would still see each other, and that they care about each other. ironically, on a lot of teen soaps the friendships are the first thing to be ignored or cut for time, because they’re not juicy and “don’t lead to conflict” (untrue). kevin isn’t even in the core four, and yet, here he is: taking out his best girl because there’s no other out kids except veronica at his school and this show cares about kevin and what kevin does! they could have had veronica suspiciously follow hermione to the drive in and start her conflict with her mom over fred andrews early, but no. they wanted her to have a night out with her gay husband buddy.

kevin and veronica are the kind of friends who made a marriage pact two days into knowing each other. kevin and veronica are the kinds of friends who meet each other’s eyes when they find the same things funny but it would be impolite to laugh. MY KINGDOM FOR AU WHERE KEVIN AND VERONICA BEARD FOR EACH OTHER BUT THEN, WHILE FAKE DATING, BECOME BEST FRIENDS. 

and like yes, unless veronica is actually queer (which she is) her calling kevin her best gay and--more than that--interrupting his interruption to be like “GAY THANK GOD LET’S BE BEST FRIENDS” is a little bit abhorrent. but looking past the ridiculous stereotyping, what strikes me most is that when veronica says let’s be best friends she means it. she’s team kevin now, ride or die. 

this moment shows riverdale at its best: taking a shit ton of cliched tropes but blending them in a new way and showing them with a lens of kind of delightfully unexpected compassion.

...anyway

it occurs to me that, despite finding my way back to it at the end, this is much less a rant about an actual scene and much more a rant about how much i love the friendship between veronica and kevin, but i’m sorry i love it that much. 

so i’m gonna try harder now on the next one

there are a lot of one-liners and moments i almost picked, even though, once again, those are not scenes (when jughead narrated that there were really only three kids in that booth and we all went IS JUGHEAD A GHOST, “slut shaming is when SLUTS get SHAMED,” “train to the rest of my life,” veronica’s face when betty comes out in the dominatrix gear, “that doesn’t SOUND like complete freedom,” PUSSYCAT RONNIE, fp jones saying he doesn’t want jughead to look at him like he’s garbage anymore....)

but then a dark horse candidate emerged:

let me tell you about the moment i realized ONE DAY I WILL BE ABLE TO LOVE ARCHIE

this show has an archie problem. so dedicated were they to proving that they weren’t going to do the classic love triangle, they made it so that archie barely interacts with half his friend group at all. isolating archie from everyone else with the grundy plot set this show back ages, and made archie almost totally irrelevant to the ensemble he ostensibly leads

but then we got this moment of hope:

“okay Leah yes we get it you like it when these idiot teens are friends”

DO YOU

DO YOU GET IT THOUGH

this was the first hint that this show would succeed at gaining my love beyond betty and veronica. and i didn’t appreciate it at the time aside from OH LOOK ARCHIE HAS A PERSONALITY I LIKE TODAY, THAT’S NICE, but in hindsight it really is quite significant. archie and jughead are supposed to be the heart of this show; it’s good to see them act like it.

and jughead is also a sarcastic little shit and he’s my son and i love him

A VERY IMPORTANT NOTE:

third place goes to the scene with betty, jughead and kevin rebuilding the murder wall and then trev shows up, which hilariously of all three of these might ACTUALLY be my real favorite scene of the whole show, for all the reasons i listed about a) the other two above and b) what i’m about to say below. sadly, though, this makes my love for it redundant and i’ve already repeated myself so much, so i’ll move on to...

the pairing i last shipped/just started shipping

well, let me tell you about BETTY AND JUGHEAD

i’m gonna be real with you i adore these two. i’m not fandom-y about them at all, because right now what the show is giving me is JUST RIGHT: two kids with chemistry who care about each other! we’re watching them take it slow and feel it out!

i dig the gentle vibe between them, and how they are interested in each other but mostly because they are both interested in JUSTICE and THE TRUTH and MYSTERIES

bless these idiot teen sleuths! i hope they get married and betty becomes a lawyer-slash-journalist and jughead becomes a private-eye-slash-novelist and together they start a firm called COOPER JONES INVESTIGATIONS and they solve crimes and are married, like Hart to Hart

anyway the point of this ask is that a few months ago i made a viral post about hatewatching riverdale because it’s trash but now i’m legitimately in love with it on every level so the joke is on me i guess

[zeetheus]

So, here’s a recap of the entire situation

From start to finish.

Because, believe me, I had no idea my ban would lead to 2 other completely innocent people getting banned for, essentially, asking staff what happened, and then expressing the desire to talk to them about it.

Not exaggerating.

On May 5th 2017, my Extremely Straight mom was being pushy, asking me about my OCs. For those unaware, the OCs in question are:

A nonwhite nonbinary aromantic bisexual with ASPD

A nonwhite asexual whose romantic orientation is a hashtag Mess, who has depression, anxiety, OCD, and is autistic

The above OCs are in a queerplatonic relationship

(This is important, I promise)

So after escaping to my laptop, I go on Quixol to try and decompress, and start off by expressing my general exhaustion and discomfort. A reasonable person who is part of the staff of a LGBT+ & ND safe server would, hopefully, take that as a disclaimer that I had been through Garbage, and had no energy.

So after having to literally physically escape an uncomfortable discussion with my mom, and after literally telling chat about the situation, I’m directly concern-trolled for calling my queerplatonic OCs, ‘queer’?

Once?

When there’s a perfectly serviceable blacklist on this very server?

(Minor note: I’m aware that Blake’s pronouns are it/its, however, I had typoed ‘pals’ into ‘pal’ & I apologize for that small misunderstanding)

So anyways, that sucked, and dealing with everything that happened that afternoon had destroyed my energy for a week. Clearly staff had made their stance clear, even if I didn’t agree with it.

I decided not to use ‘queer’ on that server, or at the very least not towards anyone who 1) wasn’t queer, and 2) might give me shit for even saying that word, even if I’m not mislabeling anyone. Such as, the staff.

So, I don’t use it.

Flash forward to late November of 2017.

I’m on my twitter, tweeting tweets, which are mostly meant for me, because it’s my gotdamn twitter account. I tweet a lot of junk, RT a lot of fandom garbage, and sometimes, when something triggers me, I try to unpack my abuse.

I’d like to make it clear right now that I never listed my twitter under my Bio (or at the very least, had never intended to. I don’t remember whether or not I put it there, and if I did, my mistake) and have only given my twitter url out once. The only connection my twitter had to Quixol was by following the Quixol twitter.

Over the course of a few weeks I tweeted out some ~*spicy*~ Opinions, which, you’re free to disagree with me about, especially since it’s fucking twitter, which has a character limit, so a lot of my word choice had to be downsized to fit in a fuckin 280 character text box.

On top of that I’m not even a Public LGBTQ+ Wank Persona, so I had no incentive to hash things out step-by-step to my... 10 followers. By all accounts, my tweets are, by their very nature, inconsequential to anyone except my followers.

(My account was not locked at the time, but I understandably later did so)

Anyways, in order:

This one was pretty clearly about Quixol, but I should probably state for the record that I had no idea ‘queer’ in MANY DIFFERENT ITERATIONS had been exhaustively banned from signs, so I had no idea it wasn’t physically possible to properly spell out ‘genderqueer’ without censoring it in some fashion.

Anyways, continuing with my ~*spicy opinions*~

I mentioned before how I was essentially abused by people I trusted for not being acceptably gay. I don’t know how ‘I’m not gay and I don’t need to be, I’m happy with being aro ace’ is a statement so vile that gay people everywhere take immense offense to it, to the point where staff finds it a bannable offense...

By the way, yes, I did get banned for these.

Because days after I was banned, staff approached Vin about my banning, of their own volition.

At the end of the day, Vin had planned to write out an essay, so that they could have a reasonable discussion with staff.

I wasn’t too Thrilled at the prospect of trying to have a discussion with people who intentionally villainized me, took my words out of context, and made the worst possible interpretations out of them, but I supported Vin’s idea.

However, she was in the middle of college finals, and preparing for chanukkah, so she couldn’t get right back around to it for another week.

Note that at this point Vin had not been contacted by staff due to her own behavior, past actions, without even a mention of her tumblr or its content.

THIS IS EXTREMELY CRUCIAL INFORMATION.

IF THEY HAD REASON TO BAN VIN FOR ANYTHING, WHY DID THEY CONTACT VIN ABOUT MY BAN FIRST?

But anyways, let’s cut to 8 days later, because I certainly couldn’t log into Quixol and subsequently do anything.

And in that time, neither could Vin.

I wasn’t surprised at this point. Staff had made it plain and clear to me that if they had a mild enough reason to ban you, they’ll find whatever evidence they need in order to finalize it.

FOUR POSTS, YALL. FOUR POSTS AND SHE GOES FROM ‘ONE OF THE MOST ACTIVE AND BELOVED COMMUNITY MEMBERS’ TO ‘A BONA FIDE THREAT TO PEOPLE ON QUIXOL, WORTH BANNING.’

The four posts in question will be linked later, for now, continuing:

So... it’s not actually about protecting people on the server, it’s about... finding people that agree with your particular flavor of “LGBT+” politics?

R...really?

Where is the actual harm that Vin has done on the server to warrant being banned?

Shit, what about me? What tangible, material harm did my tweets, squirreled away on my own separate twitter, that no one follows me on, do to anyone on the server?

Anyways it doesn’t end here, because in this chain of bullshit, someone else went down trying to ask staff “why for the love of god did you ban Vin?”

Screenshots (Warning, it’s 65 pages long)

All four posts that Vin was banned over are included as well.

But if you’re interested in my personal highlight reel:

ah yes, a non-ace trans woman trying to silence anyone who casts doubt on her decisions to silence queer ace people for having experienced abuse similar to hers, because that’s not some top-tier oppression olympics ‘my pain outweighs yours’ b.s.

remember that time staff literally approached vin of their own volition with screenshots of my tweets at the ready, trying to grill vin about my tweets and whether or not she agreed with them?

where’d that go?

did they suddenly get tired of it after being confronted with other, perfectly average Quixol users, suddenly also questioning their decisions against their will?

funny how vin got to have a discussion about her posts. wonder why they didn’t ever contact me except to ban me

so one of the posts was barely incriminating, but the staff decided to use it against her AS A PSYCHOLOGICAL TEST, and then decided to use it decisively against her after she didn’t give the reaction they wanted from her (again, they mention it as one of the 4 posts she was banned over)

THIS WOULD BE PERFECTLY REASONABLE IF THEY HADN’T BEEN LITERALLY SEARCHING THROUGH HER TUMBLR, DIGGING UP POSTS FROM UP TO TWO YEARS AGO

IT WOULD ALSO BE REASONABLE IF:

I HAD ACTUALLY PUT MY TWITTER URL IN MY BIO, WHICH I’M PRETTY SURE I DID NOT

I HADN’T BEEN BANNED NOT TWO WEEKS AGO FOR EXISTING ADJACENT TO QUIXOL, BARELY IF EVER MENTIONING IT ON TWITTER, NEVER LINKING IT FROM THE SERVER, WHO THE HELL WAS SEARCHING THROUGH MY TWITTER, AND WHY DIDN’T BEAN EVEN MENTION DEFENDING MY RIGHT TO HAVE A SEPARATE TWITTER THAT WAS NOT PUBLICLY LINKED TO QUIXOL!? WHAT!?!

glad to know the rest of the staff also goes full tilt on oppression olympics

still waiting on the part where vin actually said something transmisogynistic or otherwise materially harmful to someone on the server

oh no!! vivian just called a lesbian trans woman transmisogynistic!! clearly if this is the game staff wants to play that means they all needs to either agree to disagree, or realize that peoples’ experiences differ from theirs, and are not something to be weaponized in order to silence people that you disagree with!! what a world!!

tfw staff tokenize themselves before they even make the slightest movement towards ‘people have different experiences besides the ones i have/know about, but we are all here and we should work together and support each other’

are they even really a real LGBT+ server

very clear, very clear distinction here... somewhere? weren’t they just saying that they’re not the same things? so they overlap but are different? uh... and...???

i don’t have a word for ‘white trans women that try to weaponize the transmisogyny that overwhelmingly nonwhite twoc experience in order to silence anyone who questions her ~*authority*~ despite the fact that there is no universal ‘trans woman experience’ that anyone can hold her as an authority AS’...

this is literally the kind of weaponized-suffering authoritarianism people talk about when they deconstruct neoliberalism and ‘oppression olympics’ and the staff all seem to be very involved in it

gee whiz, im no longer wondering why i, a queer aro ace, was banned

bean weaponizing his aceness as the staff’s ‘authority’ on ace matters, instead of, yanno, understanding that vin has had her own experiences, that are different, which leads her to take different stances

especially since bean himself admits he hasn’t faced any problems due to his aceness

lucky him, i guess

“this is the first time we’ve had to really make a ban based on evidence that was off quixol”

fuck you in particular

my tweets weren’t for you or anyone else on Quixol

you and the rest of the staff decided to ban me anyways

and now that you snatched vin in your chain-ban and you have a lot of people who are QUESTIONING YOUR DECISIONS you try and act sympathetic?

if people are reacting like this, and the evidence wasn’t even on the server, why even ban someone?

if you intend to heavily police Quixol users you should maybe fucking say so

that way no one’s suprised

i have intense paranoia issues and the entire fact that YALL WERE STALKING MY TWITTER hasn’t helped in the least

literally here are tweets i made in the same timeframe as my ~*banned tweets*~

like you claim to be protecting users, despite the fact that no one on the server was harmed

and you claim to be inclusive, despite the fact that you silence queer people at every turn

and you claim to be safe for ND people, while causing them anxiety and paranoia

literally what do you even stand for at this point

"we are all trans? we are all gay?”

yeah? and?

you still closet the hell out of queer people?

especially queer people with identities you don’t like?

queer people who literally use the word to describe their OCs in plural since they are neither gay nor trans?

you literally wouldn’t let me use the word ‘queer’ to describe my OCs?

hhhhhhhhhhhhh

oh no!!! queer people exist online

seriously is this an LGBT+ server or some kind of fundie christian camp

also, get a load of all of the 0 times vin and i have called anyone queer without their consent, seeing as the first and only time I used it, i got scolded by staff for it

funny story. as soon as I read this screen i knew why I was actually, really banned

way back up at the top of this post, when i had confronted Blake about the fact that I had just called my OCs ‘queer’

and was told ‘be careful, don’t use that word on people who don’t want it applied to them’

i had already been mislabeled as ‘gay’ numerous times on the server itself, which was triggering for me

after bringing up that particular grievance with staff, using almost the exact same wording as Fritjof, i decided to blacklist ‘gay’ so that i wouldn’t guilt gay people into hiding it from others, while protecting myself

very interesting that the staff doesn’t have the same attitude towards people being able to protect themselves from ‘queer’

it’s almost like the censoring of queer is not for the sake of protecting users... but instead...

Just so we make this clear, ‘queer’ which staff defines as being ‘gay and trans’ (but not queer itself for some reason?) is equivalent to:

triggering thing that must be blacklisted (that’s why the blacklist exists)

nsfw chats in global

literally how do yall say ‘queer means gay and trans’ and equate its use with ‘nsfw’

again... is this an LGBT+ server... or a conservative christian summer camp...

it feels almost... indistinguishable...

yes, that is the admin of an ND & LGBT+ server using the same ‘real world’ rhetoric that anti sj bigots and conservatives make

interestingly enough, it’s also common among bigots in the LGBT community, such as truscum, aphobes, and queerphobes, towards anyone with a ‘special snowflake’ identity that they don’t particularly like or are interested in including

but an ace man can never be acephobic right? he’s an authority on ace issues after all, and so all aces must have his same experiences

/s

pedophilia?? gee whiz i wonder what that post Vin reblogged about ‘people accusing others of pedophilia that weren’t actually pedophilia’ was about. surely it wasn’t about staff, right?

so, recap of bannable offenses here on Quixol Dot Corn:

Have a public twitter, where you tweet opinions that staff disagrees with

Be friends with the above person who was banned, and when you don’t say anything banworthy when they confront you, have a tumblr account with enough questionable posts for them to construct a banworthy offense

Once both of the above have been banned, ask staff about their decisions, and then try to reasonably discuss their ongoing queerphobia

So anyways, if you’re wondering where Zeetheus, Vin_Venture, and Fritjof42 went... that’s pretty much what happened!

Staff has zero intent on protecting their userbase, just policing the hell out of their opinions, to the point where off-Quixol content is considered a bannable offense, and if staff hasn’t made that clear to anyone, I hope this post does.

Queer people are not safe on Quixol

Unacceptably ace people are not safe on Quixol

The vast majority of people under the LGBT+ umbrella that don’t fit under ‘gay and trans’ are not safe on Quixol

People with anxiety, who have experienced stalking paranoia are not safe on Quixol