#anti portwell

[platonicsoulmatesstobin]

Rini- wrong person, right time

Portwell- right person, wrong time

Nini and EJ- right person, wrong time (fight me)

Rina- right person, right time

Seblos- right person, right time

Madlyn- right person, right time

Redlyn- wrong person, right time

[youarentamaybeyoureayes]

there's very few people i can't stand more than a "if olivia had never left the show, r*ni would've been endgame" truther

you mean to tell me that the same ship that was already having communication issues less than 5 minutes after their big love confession scene was going to be endgame? and you want me to be convinced it's not just the nostalgia and obsession with real life shipping talking? (because let's be honest, more than half of r*ni's hype existed because of j*livias, without them, it's hard to even believe the ship would've made a dent of impact)

then of course there's not only tim's interviews that came after the season 1 finale aired where he talked about how not every couple lasts as well as the importance of portraying healthy breakups in high school, but the fact that the first 3 episodes of season 2, all written sometime between late 2019 and early 2020, explicitly showed r*ni's communication issues and overall incompatibility. they were never a ship that was built to last. i don't see how they could've made it more obvious.

[rinaforreal]

Gina couldn’t be a maybe anymore. Ricky made her a forever.

[blues-valentine]

it’s still a bit frustrating readings pws claim to this day that portwell “was meant to be endgame” because it’s like they don’t understand those characters and the underlying premise of “their romance”. there was not romantic undertones to them on season 1 and their romance on season 2 was doomed before it even started. pls media literacy i beg.

I believe one of the main reasons PW/Rinis cling so hard to the whole “real endgames” thing is because they are so used to teen shows staying with the “core 4 ships” formula so they refuse to acknowledge the writers changed things because Rina ended up being more dynamic.

This amazing channel did a really thought out explanation about how PW was doomed from the start. Check it out. It has one of my favorite analysis about the show, especially Rina.

But let’s discuss for a moment:

As you said, there weren’t romantic undertones between Gina and EJ on Season 1. They had a common goal. She wanted Nini out of the role of Gabriella and EJ was jealous of Ricky being around Nini. Gina didn’t care about EJ getting the role of Troy. She was actively advocating for Ricky to keep it. The homecoming situation was a plan Gina came up with thinking Nini would be there and get that frustrated she’d quit the show — she was wrong so she took it out on EJ. And instead of the episode ending in some common ground between Gina and EJ, it ends with Gina leaving with Ricky and connecting with him over feeling like outsiders — which kick starts their whole journey. After that, she stopped pursuing her plan with EJ or seeing him all together. They had a whole conversation about Ricky. And later, another argument used to implicate PW was romantic. The plane ticket. That situation wasn’t about Gina. It was about EJ doing good things and becoming a better person and he was inspired to do so by Nini initially. I won’t say that Season 1 doesn’t end with the potential to turn this dynamic into a romantic one — and they did. But it wasn’t aimed as a endgame build up, and that’s made even clearer once you know the existence of that 206 opening night flashback taking place.

EJ starts Season 2 claiming he feels older than the rest of the group. Already making a point that EJ is moving towards a different life stage. His arc started with college applications and the first hint that he might have a crush on Gina comes suddenly on 205 [conveniently after Gina and Ricky had a fallout]. And the narrative never really says why he liked Gina in the first place. And I feel like in a way it was a distraction for him. I’d say it was easier to see why Gina would develop feelings for EJ. This is why I said pairing those two together felt like a plot device for Gina/Rina than it was to serve EJ’s own arc. He was there when she needed it and one thing about Gina, she craves the attention she lacks from her family unit. Gina liked EJ because “he showed up” and I feel he represented a band aid to her feelings. Just like Gina was to him.

The famous sofa scene, the one PWs claim is the epitome of understanding and connection. But as the person from the video says, it never really showed them being connected to each other — it does the opposite. Gina downright says she doesn’t understand him or what he is dealing with but it’s allowing him to dump his problems on her. She sympathized with him but cannot empathize with him. That scene only showcases how different their lives are about to be and how Gina isn’t at the stage EJ is at yet but at that point in time, it felt like they were the only people willing to listen and be there. And having Gina downright say “I don’t know” to EJ’s issues was straight up a parallel to Gina saying “I know” when Ricky open up to her.

And people claiming the miscommunication issues came out from nowhere are really not paying attention. The only reason Gina and EJ got together was because of Ashlyn’s initiative to clear their misunderstanding. If it wasn’t for her, they would have ended with that in mind. And it showed from the get go EJ assumed and let it awake his insecurities instead of speaking.

Another interesting thing the video points out, that I also noticed right away is how Season 2 is framed as a before and after. Divided by 206, which is the flashback episode but also the moment Gina decides to cut off her friendship with Ricky. It’s not a coincidence 205 sets PW up and 206 makes the argument there’s clearly unspoken issues between Ricky and Gina. But mostly, it sets the “I never do things right the first time, Ricky” thing in motion. I said it back in 206 that this quote had a deeper meaning. And after 206, the narrative insists on letting the audience know EJ could be Gina’s first date, first boyfriend and first kiss. They were spoon feeding you the narrative. EJ was going to be the first, just not the last. 209 is a Rina coded episode and I also pointed it out back when it premiered (X). The episode points out Gina was not over Ricky. It has Jack advising Gina to “care less” in her next relationship. An advice that she takes into consideration. And we also got Jack telling her to pick the safest seat on the plane (planes, a metaphor that has been used for Gina’s feelings about Ricky). Gina ended up this episode already with the mindset that she was going to go forward with a more carefree attitude because safest choice (EJ) = less potential pain. @curtsies-from-princess-ashlyn makes a great analysis on how 209 is an episode divided between Ricky and Gina plus their paralleled/individual arcs (X).

The Season 2 finale ties all of this together with second chance, which I said it was a Rina coded song and here’s this lovely analysis (X). Ricky and Nini having the verses about new beginnings because both of them had moved on from their relationship vs Gina and EJ having the verses about shutting down emotionally with Gina saying she’s safer on the run and EJ saying he isn’t sure about what he wants. Neither Gina and EJ started their relationship in the best mindset.

Now, Season 3 premiere, they bring back the “never do things right the first time” analogy again by hitting you with Gina’s “summer of firsts” = “first boyfriend” “first summer camp” and “firsts” continues being a theme all season. Then, we have Gina sub-conditionally saying a person could interfiere in her relationship with EJ, which is a way to say, Gina is not over Ricky. Like, it was so obvious and it was insane people were still holding onto the idea the season would culminate in a love confession with them.

A lot of Gina’s relationship with EJ started by the fact she was compromising her ambition to fit into a role that was more likable for others. She said this to Nini at the end of Season 2. And you can also tell by the way Gina interacted with EJ. It felt like Gina was trying her best to fit into the role of girlfriend, because she didn’t want her first relationship to fail. And this was noticiable with Sofia’s acting choices. And the fact she later confirmed this was an intentional choice means that there’s awareness there.

I’ve said before, Gina and EJ’s relationship was going to fail for a lot of reasons. Their different stages, the fact Gina was not really herself, the fact she still had unresolved issues with Ricky. Gina needed to date EJ to experience her first relationship and even out the dynamic between Ricky and Gina. Gina was pinning on Season 2, then it was turn for Ricky on Season 3, so they could meet in the middle when they were ready. In fact, Season 2 was the season that made me confirm they were serious about Rina because that level of detail isn’t given to non-endgames.

[bisexualfemalemess]

“Rina copied pw/rini scenes”

I’ve seen this and “Gina is like the new nini.” all over my TikTok fyp from rinis and pws and it’s simply put not true. There are parallels yes, there are some with madlyn and rina too, doesn’t mean they copied but there are huge and important differences.

Gina is canonically ambitious, her mom wants her to have a successful career. Gina canonically has always wanted to make her mark. It’s not ‘copying’ nini because she’s finally found a chance to do so. It’s not copying nini that she finally got gabriella because Gina parallels gabriella more, they’ve both moved a lot in their lives and were outsides to east high. The most important difference is that gina actually made a compromise to stay. She wanted to stay in salt lake but she also wanted to become a movie star so she found a way to be with ricky, stay in salt lake and still get this incredible opportunity. Nini didn’t make a compromise.

Rina canonically parallels Troyella with the outsider to east-high and outsider to theatre trope, except rina doesn’t need couples therapy in 15 years but you grt the jist. Ricky was extremely giddy and in love with gina for the entirety of season 4 he spent around her. Ricky was so supportive of her when she took over the role of bailey, hr decorated her trailer and recited her confession back to her when he saw that she was nervous, I don’t think he ever wrote a duet with with nini for which he provided the music and she the lyrics, and then told her that he wants to hear everything she has to say or that he never forgot a thing she said. Neither pw nor rini ever had a puppy date or secret dating trope that lasted half the season. They didn’t get a rain kiss and GINA SIGNED UP FOR THE MUSICAL BECAUSE OF RICKY. He ‘had a vibe’ and she ‘had an instinct’. Even in the final two episodes, rina get backstage and onstage kisses which neither rini nor pw got. He literally practiced his “i love you” speech to gina because he wanted it to be perfect, he didn’t for nini. One very important difference and parallel is the potential moving away, Ricky was so supportive once he found out FROM GINA’S MOTHER NONETHELESS and she wanted to tell him from the beginning once they went to meet up in the dressing room. (quinn had to ruin that.) And other that nini, who had already come back when ricky told her to stay and still made a fuzz about it, Gina wanted ricky to ask her to stay and stayed without ricky asking her. Gina never told ej that he “made her feel seen, and known, and understood.” while crying hysterically before she’s about to leave him. Another very obvious and important parallel is the i love you song and once again that was handled a million times better, Ricky was saying “i love you” first. It was not a hail mary or trying to fix what’s already broken like it was when he sang itikyk for nini where he wasn’t actually able to speak out the words. Every single line in that song was how ricky felt and how rina felt about each other. Ricky was actually able to say i love you and not even that but that he was also in love with Gina and that they’re love was forever.

Stay mad that your ship sunk but don’t make-up stuff to feel better and stop saying that sofia wylie only became the main character because olivia left. Just say you don’t want black girl representation and move on. Ricky and gina are gonna adopt a bunch of puppies and get married in 10 years no matter how many times y’all say that they copied your ships scenes and that it only happened because liv left because “their love feels a lot like high school and forever after that.”

[kateanthnys]

It’s funny seeing people say Rina moved too fast and soon and it’s unrealistic for them to say i love you when they did and it’s the same people who thought p0rtwell was gonna get a love confession in szn 3 (hell I remember some people saying they were getting one at the end of szn 2 when it was airing) when their dating timeline was less than Rina’s. Also Ricky and Gina like to call back to times in their relationship when they weren’t even dating so that time clearly counts for them too cause they were falling in love.

[starrrbakerrr]

Portwells shipping Mack & Gina just proves that they never cared about Gina and EJ — especially Gina. They are Rinis that jumped ship because their favorite couple is 6 feet under (which they also refuse to accept), so Gina and EJ being together keeps Gina from Ricky. And now they are convinced that Gina is gonna leave Ricky for Mack, who is a guest character. All of Gina and Mack’s press photos are literally stills from the movie they’re filming and Portwell/Rinis are like “she’s so much happier with him” or “they have so much chemistry” when we haven’t even seen one scene between the two of them. How can they see all the photos of Rina released today, read Tim’s interview, and watch the clips of “Can I Have This Dance?” and the puppy song Ricky sings to Gina and claim Rina isn’t gonna be endgame? The level of delusion, pettiness, and implicit racism is astronomical. I’m starting to hate the argument that Portwell/Rinis are delusional and lack media literacy, they are truly just petty and jealous more than anything.

P.S. 99.9% of Rinis are weirdo Jolivias. I actually haven’t seen one that doesn’t romanticize Olivia and Joshua’s relationship and want them back together.

P.S.S. To Portwells/Rinis/Jolivias: Olivia/Nini isn’t coming back and she’s definitely not gonna come in and whisk Ricky away like you want. If it bothers you so much don’t. watch. the. show. I promise you won’t be missed.

[curtsies-from-princess-ashlyn]

Listening to Just for a Podcast for the first time and this Mads/truecastaways commenter is SO REAL 😭 I'm on 2x08, and this person cheering at the Rini breakup? Same. And beyond what my feelings have always been about the Rini storyline and breakup this ep, this commenter is the only one making astute observations and predictions about Portwell and Rina's future. Like, EJ and Gina being 2 years apart actually means they're in 2 different stages of life and won't work out because of it? Confirmed in S3. There's been comments on previous eps from this person that were also really great.

Rinas have been so consistent in understanding these characters and the story, which is why claims that their story (including Rini's and Portwell's stories) was weakly written simply aren't convincing to me.

(also I realized that Ricky got rid of that dogtag the second him and Nini broke up, but he kept that hat from Gina for the months they weren't even talking?!?!? She was always special to that boy)

[taylorkellyreporting]

i know it’s most likely just done for comedic purposes but i really wish they’d stop saying ricky stole ejs girlfriends because that’s literally not true. nini breaks up with ej in s1 because he’s a shit boyfriend who stole her phone. her and ricky don’t get together until the night of the musical because he’d been pursuing gina since homecoming. gina breaks up with ej in s3 because he’s a shit boyfriend who wouldn’t make time for her, chose to confide in val about his dad instead of her and hell, hadn’t even told her what his full name was! he even had the audacity to get mad at her for hanging out with ricky even though he’s the one who refused to leave with her when she asked. she spent some time at camp with ricky, yes, but he never tried anything with her and always respected that gina was with ej, even going as far as to help her create a promposal for him even though it was breaking his heart to do it. they didn’t get together until the screening for trailer premiere when she was already single. saying that ricky stole ejs girlfriends is disrespectful not only to him but to nini and gina as well because none of them ever did anything wrong!! the real reason ricky and ej never hung out is because ej was a loser.

[ma1moreau]

I find it laughable how rini and portwell shippers still think they will be endgame. I thought they would be finished with the 5 stages of grief

[bluesummers57]

ej caswell fans always coddle him and demonize the other characters, to make people see him in a better light. have y’all just stopped to think.. ej is the one in the wrong? in both relationships he was in? how do you try to switch up a whole narrative that’s in the show, just to benefit him? like .. ej is an okay character i guess, if you like him that’s fine! your choice! but stop trying to change him into someone he’s not. making gina the villain is just a way you all found to excuse ej’s actions and lack of communication. gina did nothing wrong. stop coming for her y’all are so fucking annoying

[shubblelive]

doing us all a favour i asked about lesbian gina

[youarentamaybeyoureayes]

I'll never understand why people act like the first season of HSMTMTS is or should be deemed the best?

Don't get me wrong, it's totally fine to have a sense of nostalgia because you might recall season 1 being the first time you fell in love with the show or you're reminiscing about what drew you into it in the first place, but most arguments about season 1 never involve talking about any aspects of the show other than the fact that it ended with the R*ni love confession, and it makes it difficult for me to believe that there's any other reasons why you deem the season so superior to the others.

When you remove the nostalgia blinders, season 1 only gives a semblance of justice to a tiny amount of characters. Ricky and Nini get the most attention devoted to them, but whether it's because of the writing or simply the fact that she's the best actress on the show who's also capable of elevating any material that's given to her, it's Gina personally that stands out to me this season. Yet while it was airing, she was getting harassment from R*nis who were ignoring the obvious issues in their relationship to take all of their anger out on Gina. This would go on to happen for two more seasons.

Everyone other than Ricky, Nini, Gina, and maybe EJ, gets abandoned or shoehorned into things that age in a horrific way. I would argue that Kourtney's character suffers the most this season, and it was actually jarring seeing someone as vocally talented as Dara Reneé play a character that wasn't initially a singer. She wasn't even supposed to have a role on the show that lasted beyond two episodes, and yet she has one of the strongest, if not the strongest voice in the entire cast. For a show that was meant to revolve around theater kids, that alone was unrealistic and as a black woman, I can't ignore how colorism played a role in that. No one with a voice like that would have been given a supporting position if they were nonblack. Somehow the likes of M*tt C*rnett were given more solos on the show, and he is easily the worst male "vocalist" of the cast.

I won't even get into the fact that other than Gina, EJ was one of the most hated characters that season singlehandedly for getting in the way of R*ni, yet once the chances of R*ni making it to endgame status were getting increasingly lower, everyone decided that he was their favorite person and became P*rtwells. Not because they saw potential in anything (we all know one of the biggest plot points of season 1 was Rina getting closer, no matter how many people want to ignore it) but because they hated the idea of any character involved in R*ni being happy with someone who wasn't a part of their ship. Because I'm saving that for a later conversation.

The point is, like every season, season 1 had more flaws than most of the fandom wants to acknowledge, especially in the characterization of the ensemble cast, which was never the right move for a show that would not be as strong without their ensemble. Nostalgia as well as the plague of real life shipping has made people believe that this season was somehow unbeatable, when I would even argue that at the show's absolute worst in season 2 we would already see the improvements and corrections that season 1 failed to expand on. Such as giving underutilized characters like Kourtney and Carlos more depth by introducing their storylines with dealing with self doubt and acceptance.

I've always said that the episode that really made me stick with the show was episode 5 of season 1, and it isn't just because I'm an avid Rina. One of my favorite parts of the episode will always be the Born to Be Brave group number. Seeing Carlos start off dancing by himself and then Ashlyn going up to join him was one of the first moments of the show where I noticed just how strong the ensemble was and just how much heart they all brought to the show.

One love confession that didn't even manage to end up being the best love confession on the show is not what made the show what it is now. Delusional nostalgia is trying to tell you that despite other seasons allowing characters who were overdue in getting their own storylines finally have their moments to shine, nothing will ever amount to season 1 because of what you shipped. Season 1 didn't even deal with their deepest subjects. In retrospect, the entire season was essentially like a trial run. Even the first 4 episodes were written by a different show runner. The entire thing was an experiment. And while it was a good start and while I do understand why it's a season that's so loved, I just wish more people would unpack the reasons why they loved it and stopped dismissing the fact that there were seasons that did things better, even if your nostalgia is trying to tell you otherwise.

[rinaforreal]

I said this last season but even with that literal one minute long clip you can tell and see the difference, but like Gina treated being with EJ like a job and being a girlfriend like a job description but with Ricky she is so wholly herself and goofy and silly and light and bubbly and it’s truly something so serious I can’t believe it.

[blues-valentine]

pws/rinis are still going w the “pw and rini would’ve been endgame if it wasn’t for olivia” claiming “justice for ej” and just being bitter individuals is hilarious. they had a year to cope.

I think it’s a choice to still engage in a media you don’t like and being bitter about it and continue clinging to a statement that is untrue.

A thing I’ve learn from years of watching TV shows is that paying attention to the storytelling is essential and what has been true to HSMTMTS is that most of the times what you see it’s not exactly what the show is telling you. They're actually great with subtext. I've said this before, the typical audience for HSMTMTS severely lacks media literacy because they've missed the most obvious signs in storytelling 101 that I feel like an unbiased person would pick up on.

PWs/Rinis are only watching the show at face value because if they dig deeper they would be forced to admit the narrative build around Ricky and Gina has been stronger than any ship in that show. The effort and attention to detail build into their story line and dialogue is very telling. Rina gets the most foreshadowing and parallels out of every couple since Season 1. So, some be purposely misreading the signs and would hold onto any idea to make it true.

A creator of a show does not film a whole confession scene, in this case between Ricky and Gina (at the same time he filmed the Ricky and Nini confession) for a couple they are not planning. Everything in TV cost time and money. A creator doesn’t give a ship a whole secret plot that only them know to create suspense for a mid-season finale reveal if they aren’t planning on moving forward with them. After that flashback on 206 was revelead. It was a wrap. Truly, people that interpreted that as closure don't know how to read subtext at all.

The IRL drama + the hit hadn’t blow up yet when they wrote Season 2 and when they were filming the first episodes of the season. 201 already foreshadows how Ricky and Nini were not going to work out. I had said this several times. It was there on neon signs. Ricky and Nini were not build to be the "happily ever after" couple. There’s an actual interview from the creator saying he wants to portray realistic breakups in teen media.

Nini and Ricky were going to break up and end exactly how it ended at the end of Season 2, had Olivia stayed or not. PW was build to fail since day 1. There were multiple neon signs on 2B that literally tells you this. 209 is full of them. Gina used EJ to move on and because he was the easier route. He was the safest seat on the plane (literally). Gina hadn't moved on from Ricky. The fact that Ricky and Nini broke up on 208 and later Gina and EJ became basically the romantic plot on 209 is storytelling 101. I could tell you how this choice in narrative always ends up in teen dramas. Ricky and Gina were always the couple being kept apart for narrative and therefore the endgame.

Also, creators having to cut screen time of a ship or dynamic in order to build another one is never a good sign. They knew PW would not be believable if they keep Ricky and Gina interacting and Season 3 proves this.

And even if Ricky and Nini + EJ and Gina were the planned endgames when the show was originally created. Things change. HSMTMTS is not the first show that changes ships during filming the moment unexpected actors show superior chemistry and it won’t be the last. Dawson’s Creek says hello. It’s been told before Gina was going to be a plot device for Rini until her chemistry with Josh on 105 was too good to waste and so there were changes. PWs and Rinis conventionally forget this statement was made. Sofia Wylie was rooting for Rina since Season 1 and she has always delivered on that.

PWs (mostly ex Rinis) continue being bitter Rini isn’t endgame and use Olivia as their consolation narrative. The other side of PWs have EJ as their favorite character and have proved they don't care about Gina on her own. Rinis supported PW because as long as PW was a thing, in their minds Rini was still a possibility.

[bisexualfemalemess]

*HSMTMTS SEASON 4 SPOILERS*

Question; Is it already appropriate to stop putting a spoiler warning on my posts? lmao

Anyway, Let’s talk about 4x05 specifically, Ricky’s line “Last summer, I was terrified, when I realized i had real feelings for gina.”

Because maybe this will put the pw/rini fans down and help them accept that rina is and was supposed to be endgame no matter what happened with liv and josh. Also, I’ve literally never seen anyone talk about this and maybe i’m just exaggerating lmao.

I think Ricky could have just as easily said something along the lines of “when i realized i had feelings/ when i realized i developed real feelings for gina” but he didn’t. Because he knew he liked Gina from the moment she kissed his cheek in that orange bug after homecoming, we’ve seen them flirt and we’ve seen him shoot a shot several episodes after that and I don’t know about you but i don’t give a spin hug to my friends. He stopped pursuing Nini as soon as gina came into the picture and that’s a fact, they didn’t bring the rickyxnini couple storyline back until after Gina moved, he didn’t actively pursue nini until Gina told him to stop calling and even then he kept texting her and we see him distracted throughout the next episode, the almost kiss didn’t happen until after Gina had replied and told him they were leaving early, only once he knew gina was completely out of the picture, did he go back to nini. He said it himself, he reverted back to his old self because he didn’t have gina in his life anymore and when gina told him she wouldn’t quit on them if she wasn’t moving away he genuinely looked upset about it as well. In episode 1 of season 2 at Ashlyn’s new years even party, that boy did a Triple Take when gina went to get a root-beer, the feelings were still there, they were just buried because he didn’t think he would see Gina again when he made his confession to Nini so he held on to what he used to know and who he used to be, because we all know that ricky bowen is not good with change. Now, in episode three of the season, the iconic valentines episode, The way he looks at her, the way his voice softens while talking to her, his line “I think you’ll get yours too.” After gina told him that every girl likes a sweet gesture, THE NEXT SCENE BEING THE CHOCOLATES, the fact that ricky got messages from nini and gina only seconds apart but he only looked onto his face once gina’s message came on, all of these things hint towards ricky’s feelings, even in 2x04 when Nini came to surprise the group in the bomb shelter, Ricky and Gina looked like they just got caught cheating even though all they did was talk and laugh. Last point, Episode five and six, He was in awe of gina when she was dancing (gina porter effect) and only went to gina for advice on nini because she had helped him the previous two times when he hadn’t even actually asked for advice in 2x04 and 2x03, The boy probably thought she was trying to get over him. In the next episode even though she had already tried to break off contact with him, he still asked to partner up with her and smiled at her when she looked at him while saying she doesn’t know what her heart desires. Even during Ashlyn’s retention of home we see ricky look at gina when he comes back in. RICHARD BOWEN HAS ALWAYS HAD FEELINGS FOR GINA PORTER, THE SEASON 3 PLOT LINE WAS NOT RANDOM OR CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. Ricky just finally realized what he could’ve had if gina didn’t move away once he lost it. RINA WAS ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN AND BE ENDGAME. THEY DIDNT COME OUT OF NOWHERE OR ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE OLIVIA LEFT. Because, fact-check Season 2 was filmed before the drivers-license drama, they did not break them up because things between liv and josh got tense. Your ship was not supposed to be endgame.

(In tomorrows post i will rant about the people who say that rina copied rini and portwells scenes And that gina is the new nini because literally where?)