#anti n52

[professoruber]

A reminder that Batman Eternal did Crystal Brown dirty (and is probably the reason she hasn't appeared in a decade)

A few moments later...

Batman Eternal (2014-2015) #4

I just thought this might be worth posting since sometimes I do see folks wondering where Crystal Brown is, hoping she returns, and wondering why DC apparently kinda forgot that Steph's got a living mother.

The reason is cause Batman Eternal's re-introduction of Stephanie Brown and her family kinda just ruined Crystal's character entirely, made her a terrible mother, and then moved on.

Batman Eternal (2014-2015) #8

This really sucks, because of how her relationship with her mother was such a significant part of Stephanie's character, and how Crystal was able to eventually sober up and mend that relationship.

But N52 Crystal is, as these panels show, honestly a terrible mother and it makes sense (solely in the context of this continuity) why Steph has had nothing to do with her.

Instead of being depicted as victim of Arthur Brown's abuse, and struggling with drug addiction, this version of Crystal seems to be not only doing fine for herself, but also a willing accomplice of her ex-husband's crimes and benefiting from them.

Batman Eternal (2014-2015) #42

While this story does admittedly end on a somewhat bright note of Crystal claiming she didn't know how far Arthur would go, and then planning to take Steph and leave the city for good. Which is nice, but kinda too little too late (also Steph promptly gets kidnapped by Catwoman and Crystal never shows up again).

N52 Crystal is either...

Somehow did not think Arthur intended to harm Steph despite despite calling her, panicked by her dad trying to kill her

Was aware of what Arthur intended and had a change of heart / crisis of conscience and so was lying to Steph here

Either way, pretty horrible. And real sucks to turn a complex mother-daughter relationship into... whatever this is. Also as I mention, Crystal Brown has never appeared since.

There is a very stark difference in how many appearances Crystal has had before and after Flashpoint.

All of Prime Earth Crystal's appearance were in Batman Eternal.

Apparently infinite frontier means everything is canon now or something, so let's hope that eventually someone remembers Steph has a mother who loves her.

Please.

To end things off, here... have some wholesome Stephanie and Crystal Brown;

Batgirl (2009-2011) #24

[itsraining-honey]

born in arizona, moved to babylonia (king tut) dancing by the nile (disco tut) the ladies loved his style (boss tut) rockin’ for a mile (rockin’ tut) he ate a crocodile… he gave his life for tourism.

[sing-me-under]

I’ve been strongly considering unfollowing the bat fam tag solely because I’m getting tired of fanon characterizations getting more and more ridiculous in its little echo chamber. Like, I don’t mind it really. It’s still funny in its own little vacuum, so I won’t block it…. But still.

[johnconn]

I am never a hater more than when I come across a jayroy text post on Tumblr dot com

[fredricwertham]

[sporkberries]

Ngl i only trust Jason stans who hate Jayr*y.Like i AM a Jason stan but literally every Roy stan i've met hates what Rhato did to him and i'm very inclined to side with y'all because i know from experience that Jayr*ys are the worst

I personally think Jason Stans and Roy Stans should unite over our hatred of JayR*y and the n52 characterization of both of them

[welcometogrouchland]

I am enjoying red hood: the hill, but it's kind of driving me crazy how after they did all that shit in Gotham War, they immediately tried to sweep it under the rug with joker: the man who stopped laughing (even tho the issue wasn't really resolved over there), and now giving Jason a series set in the past so it doesn't have to deal with the fallout...DC please...

[sang-i-fetge]

List of Jason Todd/Red Hood's weapons/gadgets/touys

Note: This is mostly from comics written by Winick, as I refuse to acknowledge most of n52. Feel free to add more, though!

Note2: This post was originally formatted in a different way, as I foolishly forgot about the image limit.

Blades

1— His iconic dagger!

Can cut through stone, and most of Batman's gear. It's been heavily debated what kind of knife it is; wether a kris, a parrying dagger, or a third secret thing.

2— The blades he gives Mia to defend herself!

I'm not sure what kind of blade they are, they vaguely look like wakizashis? Their size varies from panel to panel so idk😔

3— The katana for the 'duel' with Oliver!

4— And to link with the next section, the exploding katana!

Yes, it's a katana that explodes. Jason baits Oliver into holding it.

Explosives

— First of all, he blows up many many things and it's not specified what exactly he uses. So the unspecified explosives that only appear as a cool fireball panel get a bullet point.

5— The jumble of explosives in the Final Confrontation™️, we can see some dynamite, C4...

6— Bomb in a crate

7— Small bomb. Not lethal!

8— Bigger bomb. Yes lethal.

9— Continuing with this absolute icon: the bomb under the Batmobile (should I capitalize that?)

10— Small Rocket, used against Brick

11— Grenade?

12— Small, cylinder-shaped explosives. Detonated upon impact?

13— Small explosive that attaches to flat surfaces, used against Dr Freeze

14— Grenade.

15— Molotov Cocktail

16— Enough C4 to destroy a whole building, modded so it explodes if its temperature reaches one point, countering Batman's method of freezing bombs.

17— My absolute favorite, the exploding helmet!

Even if it's listed under 'explosives', it's also an important piece of technology in the Red Hood's arsenal.

Firearms

18, 19— The guns in the wall from Annual #25, there's surely more.

20— Machine guns hidden in crates!

21— Machine guns hidden in cars!

22— Rocket launcher, used against Black Mask

23— Even more hidden machine guns! This time in an electricity pole.

24— Machine gun (also hidden, but surprisingly not attached to anything)

25— Handgun👍

26— AK-47, you know the panel from where it's from

27— Submachine guns, I think 🙂

28— When out of ammo he uses his guns as blunt weapons, which I wanted to note

Tasers

29— The nazi-killing taser

30— The reason for the creation of this post! The grapple line taser! Attach it to a grapple line and it will shock whoever is connected to it. Noticed it in a reread of utrh and needed people to see it

31— Bonus: the bat-symbol taser. Iconic enough to be here.

Tech & Surveillance

32— Monitor and microphone?

33, 34— cameras :)

35— thing to see the feed of the cameras

36, 37— phones :)

38— his little tech den in #650

39, 40— computers :)

41— whatever this thing is

42— The surveillance device that looks like he taped a canon camera to his face

43— Wiretaps!

44— Bugs!

He also has his evil lair in B&R2009 bugged.

Miscellaneous

45— Does his crowbar count

46— smoke bomb!!

47— Injectable adrenaline. He just has that in his utility belt.

48— His batmobile-evade suit.

49— Is saying his belt buckle mean

50— Unspecified poison! Goodbye Egon

51— This thing that attaches to its target and launches them off

Not pictured:

The fancy weapon dressing he gives onyx to patch up the shoulder wound he inflicted (I forgot to screenshot 💔)

Also, he has this whole hq-ish thing in Annual #25

(Edit: That rectangle in the gun wall kinda looks like an anti-drone gun now that I think abt it)

It has a murder board, which I think is cute.

[glitter-stained]

Sense the current state of jason as character is stagnant do you think dc will ever purplish a good story of him, maybe he even kills of his red hood persona and goes on to be something else that would be something I would like to see but I don’t think it will happen. Dc will forever shoehorn him in to the batfamily. At least in his anti-villian era he was actually fun now his character is in a pitiful state

do u think theirs a chance of reinvent him as character anytime soon ?

Well first of all through spite everything is possible, so jot that down.

Like seriously, remember when it was so so incredibly over like Spiderman's Uncle Ben levels of over and then Under the Hood happened? Hell yeah I think dc will publish a good Jason story

Second I may not be the best person for this ask because I like my blorbos pitiful and miserable. Like yeah defiance is awesome but exhaustion -in characters who have been angry and alone for so long, beaten dog who got electrocuted too often to bite back- has a special place in my heart. But I also agree this has to be a transitional part of a story, the arc can't be "well he was hurt and then he was angry and then he was tired and he was miserable the whole time". Unless of course he ends up perma-dying in a really meaningful arc centered around his character but I'm not sure that'd be what I want for him, and we all know how lame dc is with permadeath nowadays. I'm also very mitigated with his villain side because yeah sometimes it's very fun and cathartic to see the angry/bad victim trope, but also the classismXpsychophobia of villain Red Hood sometimes are just too much; and also I'm a jaybin fan and sometimes I feel betrayed on jaybin's behalf by elements of his villainous characterization. (One day I'll write that damned UTH rewrite, I will).

With that being said!!! I love Jason because of his potential, he has so so much of it, that's what's exhausting about his many bad comics is that yeah. Yeah, dc can absolutely publish something more than good. They don't understand the goldmine they're sitting on in terms of potential.

What I'd love to see explored in hypothetical upcoming good comics (i'll talk more about it later with malfiora but for now)/how dc could go about reinventing his character :

1) addressing Jason's suicidality and getting him a functional support system (seriously, something's gotta give)

2) Get that boy a dog. Ik he had one at some point in N52 idc give him more dogs. Big ass rescue dog that's loyal and similar to him.

2) we need to figure out a way to let Jason keep being a Crime Alley/Park Row vigilant without being dependent on Batman. Like yeah he should explore the world away from him and heal but also i'm very uncomfortable with the idea that healing, for Jason, has to mean leaving the city and neighbourhood he grew up in and protected, has to mean be shoved out of his home by a guy who doesn't live there and, at least when Jason was a kid, only visited the place one time a year because of the anniversary of his parents' death- it's not fair and I won't accept it.

3) I so so agree about the "killing the red hood persona" or at the very least changing his vigilant name. Like I get the point, I understand the use he had for him, but his story can't be centered around the Joker forever (I keep thinking about the Joker's attitude to him in The Man who stopped Laughing and god, I can see a driving force to find himself as something else than what Batman and the Joker made him). At some point his name has to become something that is his and turned towards the future.

4) art + story that acknowledges how young he is (someone please let Jason take college class please please he deserves it)

5) perhaps most importantly: batman writers often sound like hardcore deontology or hardcore utilitarianism (and the occasional egoism) are the only acceptable moral philosophies. And for characters, it works! Like I can see Batman as a Kantian, sure. But for others, it doesn't fit as well.*

The cool thing about Jason's character right now is that he's a utilitarian, but a utilitarian that often isn't guided by his values. He can and will compromise on his philosophy in the name of love and being loved ( @bestangelofall called that a morality leash) and that already sets him as an interesting character in his own right. But in terms of redefining himself as a person after decades of defining himself through his pain (which, at 20-23 years old, he should get to do) I'd love to see an evolution of his morals based on love. Specifically, I'd love from his morals to shift from mathematical utilitarianism to agape, an ancient greek concept of platonic love for everything human, a movement towards the other that can be thought of as close to some conceptualisations of empathy. Mind you, that doesn't mean that he would stop killing! I can believe in a Jason who kills because or against of agape, the pain or relief that could be so good to explore in relation to that, how he would go on to define himself as a person... I feel like Jason has a certain tendency to kinda dehumanize the worst criminals as he kills them (a lesson from Judy, love her sm) which I love, but would also love to see him grow out of - learn to see and love everyone as human and what it means, a re-exploration of his empathy.

Imagine: a scene where he kills a guy because a kid victim begged him to. The focus on the image is on the kid's big wide tearstruck eyes, and then Jason's uncertain face, the kid begging him to kill the bad guy. And then Jason kills him and they're standing so close to eachother, and he's look him in the eyes and seeing the image of the kid's eyes, and then turning back to the kid while wiping the blood on his face and seeing the kid's wide eyes looking in disbelieving awe. And then kneeling and hugging the kid as he cries his heart out. And Jason's inner monologue during all that being something like "I could say that I killed him because I'm a bad guy; I probably am. Or argue the world is better off without scum like him; I could pretend I did it so he wouldn't hurt [x] again, or that I was thinking about all the other children he wouldn't be able to hurt anymore. But the truth is, I didn't. I killed him because [x] asked me to; because I could tell that he needed it. I can live with that."

Idk, that's the direction I would love to see it going, but simply "becoming even more open, louder and unapologetic about prioritising his love over his values, and being angry when it causes him dilemma" is something I'd love with as way. Very "Odysseus knows what he's going to choose the moment the gods tell him to throw the baby off the wall to see Penelope and Telemachus, but fuck if he's angry at the gods for making him make that choice" kind of vibe if you like Epic the musical.

*i'm not saying there aren't any characters in dc that fall out of this deontological/utilitarian false dilemma, it's just a vibe I get from batman writers at times, and as a consequence of specializing in one character I don't feel legitimate in exploring the intricacies of other characters because I feel like I'm lacking information and would be making uneducated guesses (that being said, I would fuck heavily with an exploration of Cass' morals VS Levinas' concept of ethics). If anybody has recommendations of dc characters that are neither utilitarian nor deontological (or are at least an interesting twist to it) I would love them so much please don't hesitate!!!

So yeah, idk if that answers your question, I don't pretend to know the intricate working of dc editorial. But imo there are wonderful possibilities for dc to reinvent Jason and write him into good comics -call me a blue lantern cause baby I got hope.

[farshootergotme]

About that Crime Syndicate reference in WFA universe idea...

I think we can assume - this is all headcanon, after all - that Spyral didn't exist in this timeline.

Yeah, Helena is around, but Helena was a character long before Spyral turned up. She can be there without it.

The thing is, in New 52 universe, Spyral is a product of anti-meta paranoia. In New 52 universe, metas have only started entering the scene for five years.

The superhuman heroes and villains are a new thing, and understandably the governments are freaking out about it.

Hence, highly unethical experiments, hence Spyral.

In WFA universe, it's clear the metas have been around for a long while, the heroes have proven themselves, and they are appreciated.

Sure, there will still be some suspicion and some agencies keeping an eye on them, but unlikely that something on the scale of Spyral can happen. Especially since the heroes are more organized and involved, unlike the rookies of N52.

So... I'm gonna go with no Spyral in WFA.

As for the identity reveal, it can't really happen either. In WFA, the Batfamily is well known. If one of the Bats get unmasked, the others will also get discovered simply due to the connections between them.

Not like N52, where they are still half way urban legends.

And yes, this is me wanting to write an angst/hurt/comfort fic about the aftermath of Forever Evil without wanting to deal with Spyral :)

Fair interpretation! You made very good points, thanks for sharing.

Spyral I personally enjoy when I'm in the mood for angst, but it is something that just makes me think 'why would this even happen?' because everyone suddenly turned into assholes apparently. A villain hit them with a jackass toxin and Dick wasn't invited? Who knows ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ (not DC, that's for sure!)

Anyway, yes, it makes sense the way you explain it. Hope I get to read your fic if you ever write anything about it!

[diamond-jester]

A random rant about Harley and Joker's relationship

Am i the only one that finds how, when discussing this pair is it always either 'Joker was never abusive, they're just a villain couple' or 'Everything bad Harley did during her time with Joker is his fault, she's a blameless victim'?

Putting it like that is an hyperbole, i know. But i really dislike how people act like she's has to either be a blameless victim or that you can't acknowledge the fact their relationship isn't healthy while still finding the couple interesting. In general i feel people think she's not her own character if she's at the Joker's side.

Harley is at her best when the story acknowledges those nuances and works with them, rather than ignoring her faults.

You can acknowledge the fact their relationship was never healthy while also acknowledge it that the way it is shown has changed through comics and adaptations. Just compare Btas' 'he used his lies to slowly change the way she thought, having an effect even he didn't expect: Her falling in love' to Suice Squad's 'He tortured her for months to make her see things his way'. (Funny that i see SS be considered the romantized one).

In general recent versions leaned into the unhealthy aspect of their relationship to the point that they can't be shown together without making the plot be about them breaking point. This ties with how much Joker has been turn into an edgelord, which a whole otger topic in itself. It also results on earlier aspects of Harley being tied to the Joker in a way they weren't before, like her accent or her costume.

The most bizare version of this is in Kill the justice league, where Harley acts as if Joker chose her outfits in the prior Arkham games... Though those game explicitly told us she chose them.

I also dislike how her redemption has been tied to if she is in relationship of the Joker, with the implication that if she isn't with him then she immediately won't be a villain anymore.

I recommend watching 'Harley's Holiday', as it shows the fact her path depends on her own mistakes, the whole episode serving as a prove that her getting depends both on her putting the effort AND her being allowed to. It doesn't depends on her relationship status, it depends on her.

The reason is that i don't enjoy how her reedemption arc has been presented since the N52 era is that the story rarely bother to hold her acknowledge the pain she's provoked. Later version of hers tend to jump into her broken up with Joker, without acknowledging her actions before.

The story acts like she had a gun over her head all the time, when she's often part of his schemes, laughing at his side as they cause destruction. Fuck, some adaptations has her complicit in Jason's murder. EXPLORE THAT. Explore her guilt, how she feels abut her actiobs and the harsh fact she enjoyed some of the atrocities she commited. Let civilians and/or batfamily hold her accountable, don't giver her a pass because 'Joker made do it :('. Her being given the 'anti-hero' feels like a cop out made to let her hurt others without exploring the moral issues in her actions.

Let Harley be her own character, explore those darker themes that she comes with. Excusing them or shying away from them makes her harm.

I like Harley and Joker because of the story they tell, not because a false belief that they are a 'healthy relationsip'. Ignoring their story hurts both characters, too.

[cuephrase]

What are some things introduced new52 to current day that you like and think are an overall net positive for batfam continuity? (As in, it's not uncommon for me to see fan things that mainly focus on post crisis/pre flashpoint stuff but still incorporate new comic aspects, such as slightly changed family dynamics/new developments, and it's interesting for me to find out what different people think is and isn't worth keeping from what got added after the reboot)

ooooh this is a fun question!!

i was going to say i haven't read that many n52 and onwards runs, and then i realized i have actually read most of the ones i want to, i just haven't read any batman/'tec/batgirl/or duke's runs yet. (i read like...half of We Are Robin, Joker War, and i've read batman from where zdarsky come in so like have also read Gotham War.) (might read Catwoman?? not the point.)

since we're sticking strictly to net positives, i'll include something that i like, even if i have criticisms of it, but i won't get into those criticisms so we can stay positive!! (future cue, so this is kind of a lie but i swear i didn't go overboard.) i'm going to include stuff as minor as like costumes bc why not. also nothing is going to be in order of like what i like the most to what i like the least, just fyi. also, probs not definitive, knowing me i will forget something lmao

New52 Era-

tim's red robin costume. that suit is *chef's kiss* imo. i love that he has wings. i...i don't know if i necessarily want it back rn bc i am sososososo in love with his current robin costume, but i do adore the n52 red robin suit

i personally like that they went ahead and made jason less villain, more anti-hero. i think him trying to reintegrate with the batfam creates some very compelling crises

dick as Agent 37!! which...okay, no criticisms nvm. michael janin's art tho >>> okay well actually maybe sometimes i wish this was like elseworlds/black label instead of mainline but

might be a bit of a reach, but i really enjoy the first handful of arcs in n52 b&r and the relationship dynamic they established for bruce and dami

i like that tim and jason are somewhat friendly. i think it makes sense. for a lot of reasons. this is a somewhat controversial opinion, which i understand. but this is where i stand

did i like anything else from this era specifically?????????

OH

DUKE!!!!!!! i loooooove him very happy he was added

Rebirth Era-

the outlaws, specifically jason's relationship with bizarro. (i enjoyed artemis a lot too!! tbh, haven't read these guys outside of this run tho so zero clue how accurate these portrayals are, so grain of salt?)

the return of dick's fingerstripes!!!!!!! best part of tom taylor's run /hj

TIM'S ROBIN COSTUME AHHHHHH. i'm sorry i love that suit way too much

love damian's current robin costume, although...does he have combat boots rn still? can't remember. if he doesn't, they should give those back

damian + jon's relationship, ik it gets obliterated by the stupid age up, but super sons is still very special to me

tim being bi!! now do kon dc you cowards

alfred's death. i refuse to elaborate. i could, but i shan't (this is not alfred hate tho i swear)

i'm forgetting something rn i know it

oh yeah, i do like tim being robin again. IK. IKKKK. no, i don't think he should be robin forever. no, i don't think dami is a bad robin/shouldn't be robin.

um...i liked dick getting shot in the head. the ric era is not how i would've wanted the aftermath but

i don't want to comment on anything super recent, but i do think there's stuff going on rn that could end up being net positives

the titans being reassembled. jury's out on their location but, i do like that they're back

i'm not counting yj because they're not doing anything with them rn, but they should ugh

i think...i think that's it? there could honestly be a lot more that i'm forgetting. i hope this was interesting!! if there's anything i didn't mention that you're curious about, or something i did mention that you'd like a more in-depth answer about, please feel free to ask!! i'm curious what you consider net positives anon, you should shareeee

[redjayson02]

Listen; I do not ship Jason with Roy either. I think that N52 Jason was borderline abusive toward N52 Roy and their dynamic during N52 never interested me particular.

But the Anti-JayRoy Fandom scares me. That fucking Webtoon is an elseworld. It is an Alternative Universe. There is no reason to be so pissed off about a non-canon alt universe.

[roseworth]

hey <3 heres what i think of every scene that rosenberg has written with rose

disclaimer: most of this is me being very nitpicky. rose was a side character for all of these appearances so obv i understand that its not gonna be perfect characterization. but i rly like talking about rose characterization so this is just me pulling apart her appearances for fun <3

ok lets go

overall

i LOVE the jason & rose dynamic. im not much of a jayrose fan but since its happening im glad that its like this. i love that its so much "rose is excessively horny and jason is giving her nothing" bc its so in character for both of them. shes fucking with him and he does not know how to reciprocate. they r so sillies

HOWEVER. rose would not just hang around him like shes doing. as much as i like that dynamic i feel like he also has to at least sometimes show that hes. you know. interested in having her around. shes just kinda tagging along and i wish there was a reason why she would put up with him never giving her anything, especially since she has a tendency to leave at the first sign of not being wanted

on a completely different note, im a little disappointed that shes wearing her old costume instead of the new one she has in btbatb/kt ravager. i appreciate that shes still drawn like an adult but i rly like her new costume so im sad that she doesnt have it

man who stopped laughing #9

STRONG start. beats up a bunch of cops, then right after she appears she does her stupid flirting thing then immediately says that she doesnt want to associate with the batfamily. queen.

not to mention right before this is my fav failgirl moment where she goes through her whole plan to crash the car and break jason out of prison. then just goes up and knocks on the door

flips the car over then walks up and says "hey its the fire department. open up" and not a single person believes her. i love her

lesbian rose crumbs <3 i still choose to believe shes talking about cass here idc. shes so silly and this was a cute lil panel

so yeah. she was on one page of this issue but that one page was great and i love her

mwsl #10

shes so lame <3 i talked about this moment a lot when this issue first released but i love it. "somebody had all the fun without us" upon finding a body, then realizing someone else was there and just. starts shooting. she doesnt hit anything. she doesnt even know where the other person is.

my big problem here is that she does not carry a gun and pretty much never uses guns. honestly now that im thinking about it this is one of the only times shes ever used a gun on panel (the other times i can think of being: shooting wade off a cliff after her mom died, shooting starfire in n52 outlaws (but new 52 rose barely even counts as rose), and using deathstroke's gun when she was pretending to be him in deathstroke 2016)

shes not anti-gun or anything but it still bothers me just a little that suddenly she has a gun (hence why i fully believe she stole jasons gun <3)

if i want to nitpick, kate should not have been able to hit her. rose should've seen she was coming wayyy before (bc precog) and she wouldnt be knocked down from one hit. i fear we are headed down a path of her becoming jasons incompetent girlfriend but i wont be too dramatic about her getting hit one (1) time

but other than that i thought this was a fun moment of rose getting hit then jason immediately fighting the person that hit her. toxic girlbesties fr

then also her needing to be held back after she gets up so she doesnt start attacking the person thats helping them <3 i love her

mwsl #11

this is a nice issue for her just because in true rose tradition she LOVES to have homoerotic fights with every other female character she interacts with. the kate & rose dynamic was soooo fun i love it when shes mean to people for no reason <3

i did not like this part though. i feel like there are a lot of implications about rose here that are unfair to her character & her place in the dcu. i'll meet the book on its own terms and say that we're only talking about post-52 rose (blah blah everything's canon rn but this book is very clearly not using pre-52 rose lore) but even then? theres no real reason for her to be ducking superheroes or for superheroes to keep an eye on her. shes not a villain or even much of a killer, the fact that shes "staying off the radars" of good guys doesnt make much sense. and the fact that kate knows her and "studies" her (fellas is it gay to study another woman despite never meeting her) implies that rose is like. a threat. shes just kind of around there is no reason kate should know her like that

cute moment! but also it bothers me. i think its fun that she refused to go since its not her fight and she doesnt want to get into a joker mess. HOWEVER. when has she ever in her life passed up an opportunity to get involved in someone elses problem. to me she wouldnt have even delivered the list of addresses without a fight if she wasnt gonna go along

other than her using a gun again (where the hell did she even get that) i like this <3 her showing up and saving manhunter after she said she didnt care what happened is so her. also i just like the fact that she shot joker

gay gay homosexual gay

the rest of this issue is fun <3 just kate & rose fighting together then getting blown up together <3 this was a nice issue for her despite the problems i had with it

gotham war red hood #2

gotham war break!!!

okay first of all i LOVE that he took her along. there was no reason for rose to be here but jason was told to meet someone and said "ok ill go but my weird friend comes with me" its so funny

ive seen a lot of people complain about the "you're my only friend" line but i LOVE it. not necessarily because she doesnt have any friends but because she would not in a million years ADMIT that she has friends. she would rather be shot in the head than say that she actually likes the people that she hangs out with.

but to be fair.... she also doesnt have friends. "what about the lazarus island gang?" the only person she actually liked there and showed any friendship toward was damian, and they ARE friends but she considers him more of a little brother than a friend. "what about the teen titans??" a) she would NEVER admit that she is friends with any of them b) its technically.... not really canon that she was ever on the same team as them. like i said before, im meeting this book on its terms, and rose being a teen titan hasnt been mentioned since flashpoint :( i wont go on a whole tangent about her friends but given that she hasnt really made a friend in years and never talks to anyone else, i think its fair for her to say that she has no friends

so yeah all this to say: she has friends, but it is 100% in character for her to say that she has no friends. i stand by this line

i dont have much to say here i just think shes so cute <3 i also love the fact that jason jumped straight to "rose is robbing a dead person" instead of "rose is inspecting the body"

but im OBSESSED with the fact that she DOES rob him. i feel like we're not talking about this enough. she saw a dead body and took his money. im not even mad about it because its so fucking funny to me

im sorry jay/rose fans this makes me want to vomit. this feels too "earnest emotions" for both of them. the rest of this scene was fine but this panel specifically feels so :/

"i just need help" "always" and "please take care of yourself" and "meet at our spot" "promise?" "i promise" does not feel like them at all. its a very sweet and genuine moment but they would NOT have sweet and genuine moments! neither of them would ever express their feelings and they would not have this conversation

this does not feel like rose at all idk who this is. where is the rage!!!!!! where is the anger!!!!!!! why did she stand there for hours just. worried about him. why isnt she lashing out

comparing this to the scene in tt03 where she's worried about eddie:

she gets angry! shes worried about him and starts yelling at everyone around her because hes hurt and she doesnt know whats happening. i would have LOVED this energy in this book and its sooooo disappointing that she just. stands there like 🥺 when she doesnt know what happened to jason

mwsl #12

i rly liked this part fhdkjfhakjdfd i thought her pretending to be him just to get batman out of the way was so good and so real. shes helping out AND fucking with batman

very minor complaint here but this isnt even true . she DOES try to run into him in ds16 when slade kidnaps damian and rose gives bruce the ransom terms. also i feel like this line is vaguely implying that she HAS found him (/he found her) on accident before which is also not true given that their only interactions are in ds16 and being in the same general area in shadow war. and also reiterating that shes not a villain so batman has no reason to track her down or cause problems for her but. whatever. this is entirely just me jumping to conclusions about what this one throwaway line means and then getting mad about it

LOVE this. she inserted herself into the situation then complains about it. this isnt her business and shes making sure that jason knows it. but also she completely volunteered for most of this

BOOOOOOOO she would not fucking say that. "sorry about that whole chase" no she would not apologize. "please dont kick my ass" she would NOT say that!!!!! first of all given that this is after gotham war she would probably kick his ass just for what he did to jason. even besides that she would not be afraid of him even a little. comparing their convo in ds16 #5 to this is so sad bc </3 why is she afraid of him instead of being a huge bitch and yelling at him

this ending is really good for her though. she absolutely would dive into the water with joker gas, trash, and dead bodies just to save her friend <3

this is more like it!!!!!!!! shes worried for him and takes initiative to save him by jumping in the water despite it being a very dangerous decision and then insults him while she saves his life <3333 its a tiny bit more of her being mean to express worry which is nice <3 its not perfect but its closer

in conclusion: there are many good moments. there are many parts i like about it. but there are just so many things that dont feel like rose </3 most of the broad strokes are there but it just doesnt feel like her when shes not full of rage and going out of her way to piss people off

[hawkgirlz]

shayera thal hol should genuinely be considered an anti-hero. she's really not this big hero, she's had like 2 plots of her going evil of her own will in the past decade where she subjects innocent people to torture to get what she wants, she rejected joining the justice league saying that life wasn't for her. why isn't she considered an anti-hero?

pre-n52 is canon again anyways.

[fredricwertham]

3, 7 and 11 for the ask

3 Screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

Can’t say it’s the *worst* of all time because I know I’ve seen worse out there but at some point I started collecting takes on Devin Grayson that piss me off in this post. Between the two, I’d say the second is shittier. Buddy, do you think that writing decision could have been made On Purpose to broadcast a point about the character?

7 What character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how the fandom acts about them?

None, really! I’m sure it seems like the answer is Jason (and his fans definitely don’t make me like him MORE) but I only dislike characters when I don’t think they work well as characters or that they’re bad for the stor* they’re in.

The fact of it is that I don’t like (okay, hate) Jason because his return has been pretty terrible for characters I like and care about more, and who I think were overall better written than he’s ever been. He’s displaced a lot of cooler, more interesting characters as Gotham’s resident anti-hero, and his revival has been so bad for Dick that writers can’t even use Dick’s post crisis/preboot characterization without new fans complaining that *he’s* too much like Jason, even though Dick preexists Jason by multiple decades in any continuity. Obviously, this specific overlap happened on purpose because DC editorial wanted to kill Dick off in order to make Jason Nightwing II (or III? Not sure how we’re counting the Kryptonian legend here) back in the aughts and, after getting rejected by both fans and writers, pushed the change through in the N52 reboot by sticky tacking several of Dick’s defining relationships and character traits to Jason while reducing Dick to something of a non-character. But I think there’s also an aspect of the problem where… the bat books are very crowded, you know? And they have been since well before Jason was re-added to the cast in UTRH. There isn’t very much room to expand him beyond the straightforwardly villainous role he was returned to the books in without making him redundant to a character that already exists.

Many people have pointed out that fanon characterizations of Jason are frequently “stolen” from canon characters, and I think this is the reason that happens. Sometimes there’s a hilarious degree of precision: you want a complicated-but-brutal anti-hero who’s willing to kill but wants to protect women and children and is also a CSA survivor? That’s Helena Bertinelli. Anti-hero who isn’t totally in control of their actions due to the Trauma and Visions but is a good person deep down? JPV. Scrappy underdog from a lower class background with a mook-level villainous parent who was severely wronged by Bruce but won’t give up the good fight? Steph. Attempts at giving Jason a relationship with either Dick or Tim typically end up being a poor man’s version of Dick and Tim’s canon dynamic, which is among the most significant and well-developed in the entire franchise. I mean, Tim literally WAS one of the characters the reboot tried to staple to Jason. I just want that guy goneeee Jimmy Starlin SAVE US!!!

11 Number of fandom-related words you've filtered

On here?? None. I only follow a handful of people who post about comics and I never go in the tags (imagine…) so it’s not really practical. I do filter out good dad/bad dad, good whatever/bad whatever tags when I look at ao3 on the maybe baseless assumption that anyone who uses them is a bad writer lol