#anti ka/taang

[runawaymun]

if you don't mind me asking, what's wrong with kataang? i haven't watched avatar but i know the plot through osmosis, and wanted to hear your thoughts on that

Ah okay! Let me try to explain...

Caveat 1: this will probably be a bit rambly Caveat 2: it has been a long time since I watched either At:LA or TLoK, but I have watched it both as a kid (teenager, really) and as an adult multiple times.

My problems with kataang is kind of split into two categories: problems with the ship based off of who they are as characters from a writing/themes/narrative arc/messaging standpoint, and problems presented by how the creators of At:LA and TLoK - Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konieztko (not Aaron Ehasz you're doing amazing sweetie) treat the characters and seem to think about the characters, based off of choices that they made in the telling of the story, especially how the characters are treated in their endgame scenario in TLoK (which, notably, Aaron Ehasz didn't write for due to creative differences).

TLDR: IMO Kataang ruins the character arcs, they're bad for each other, and the writers did a disservice to Katara in favorite of their pet meow meow -- which hurt both character arcs and legacies, ultimately.

My chief issue is that Katara and Aang are bad for each other, romantically. They bring out the worst in each other. They're bad at holding healthy boundaries, bad at communicating, and the ship itself is very unbalanced. And I wouldn't have a problem with this if it was recognized by the narrative or the shippers, but the narrative treats them as a great love story when really it's anything but. I won't get into age differences -- because by the time they marry a two-year age difference is very negligible and I don't really think it's a good argument against the ship (even if I do think that shipping a 12 year old boy with a 14 year old girl is insane like what 14 year old girl WANTS to date a 12 year old boy. 12 year old boys are gross haha <3) -- but let's talk about it from a thematic and character growth standpoint.

Aang's arc is fundamentally about not running away from his problems, and learning to step into his role as the Avatar. He struggles with responsibility, struggles with emotional regulation, and struggles in the tension between being very much a 12-13yo kid, and being the Avatar, who has to save the world. His arc is beautiful. It's done SO WELL. And he manages to stay true to himself and I love that for him.

Katara's arc IMO is fundamentally about learning to fight for herself, and not just for others. Katara is very maternal. She has had to grow up extremely quickly in the face of losing both parents at a young age, and understanding that she has to live in constant fear of being murdered for her waterbending abilities. She constantly has to stand up for herself, and has a bad habit of suppressing difficult feelings in lieu of helping others work through theirs. This culminates in Katara taking several seasons (iirc) to actually properly talk to someone about her grief and the burden she is carrying, and to learn to set healthy boundaries -- to help her friends and to grow into a strong warrior and work on herself.

The problem here is that the narrative, over and over, forces Katara to emotionally regulate Aang, and this is never really addressed. They have really poor boundaries and she's always mothering him -- Aang is not a partner for her. He doesn't often reciprocate the same level of support that she gives to him -- mostly because he is twelve. Katara, narratively, acts like a crutch for Aang to lean on. Aang actively holds Katara back from setting healthy boundaries and growing into her own person.

They have an emotionally imbalanced relationship, and again -- Michael and Bryan really don't ever try to rectify this, and I think also they're just really bad at writing romance idk. Because over and over Aang makes passes at Katara, and Katara never really expresses interest. That could be down to Katara being bad at expressing her emotions, but it really doesn't feel like it. The last straw for me -- from a narrative standpoint, is the episode where Aang confesses his feelings to Katara, Katara literally says "I don't know how to feel. I'm confused." And Aang, without asking, decides that this is the perfect moment to kiss her.

Which, fine. They're kids. Kids make mistakes. They don't do things perfectly. I'm fine with characters making mistakes. But for a kids' show that's pretty intent on helping us all learn good life lessons -- this is never addressed. Katara is never given the chance to say "Hey, I didn't appreciate that." Aang never is made to apologize for crossing a boundary. It's treated as just a big stepping stone toward their incredibly forced romantic arc. And I hate hate hate when stories tell boys that the appropriate response to a girl asking for space to sort out her feelings/being unsure is to oh, just kiss her, to help her figure it out! instead of, I don't know, let her make up her own mind and give her space. "I don't know" is not fucking consent, and they shouldn't treat it like it is. Especially not in a kids' show.

Which-- yeah, that kind of leads well into my second problem with Kataang - which is how the creators of the show treat it. To them, Kataang is endgame, it is in the "DNA of the show" as one put it. Which is very weird to me because it is so, so poorly done, and the writers really seem to care so little for Katara. Why do I think this? Because of how they choose to treat Katara in TLoK.

Katara, in her 80s in TLoK, is relegated to a healer and teacher. She's insignificant to the story when characters like Zuko and Toph get much cooler entrances and scenes. She's stuck being a passive bystander to a war (Katara would never.) She's stuck being a healer (Which, sure, she is. But so much of At:LA she chafed at being put in that box! She's also a fighter, goddamnit!) -- and some people have tried to say "well what do you want an 80 year woman to do?" and I don't! fucking! buy it! Characters in At:LA were badass fighters well into their 80s, like Hama (the fearsome bloodbender), Pakku (the Waterbender), Iroh (y'know...), and most notably, Bumi, who is 112 fucking years old. Don't give me "80 year old Katara sits on her ass at home while the men go out and do things and Zuko, at the same age, is literally riding around the world on fucking dragonback." I won't have it. It's Katara slander, I tell you! Let that old woman be a badass!!!

And the writers even go so far as to erase her from her kids' lives! They never talk about her!!! It is always about Aang! Always Aang! And you just get the impression that Katara dropped absolutely everything to be "The Avatar's wife" and SHE DESERVED BETTER RAUDGAHSGH

She doesn't! even! get! an honorary statue! On the very island on which she should! be a war hero! Aang does! Toph does! Zuko does! EVEN SOKKA DOES. The ENTIRE Gaang gets a statue, except Katara. That is a deliberate art choice! WHY did they leave her out?

They absolutely destroyed her ENTIRE At:LA arc in TLoK, and I am honestly not even surprised because the writers have said outright that Aang is a self insert character, and that Kataang is "that childhood romance that we both wanted as kids". Katara, in their brains -- and idk maybe this is unjust-- but she seems to be just the amalgamation of those 14 year old girls that wouldn't give them the time of day when they were snotty twelve year olds, except they're writing the story so of course Aang gets the girl.

Anyway, this doesn't even go into how there are infinitely better choices for Katara, and how Aang's arc is worsened by having a romantic subplot, and etc. etc. I could go on forever about how much I dislike Kataang from a narrative standpoint.

Literally my first thought when I heard they left the Netflix show "due to creative differences" was: "Oh my god, is it because there's no kataang???" and now that there's confirmed to be no kataang and that they may be going a zutara route instead, I'm convinced that's why.

Because it's "in the DNA of the show, you see" they have broken with cocreators before over their pet self insert ship and the narrative treatment of Katara (Aaron Ehasz), and I don't see any reason why they'd change.

alkdasdlkgh anyway. God. Thanks for the ask! Sorry about the really long anti kataang rant aslkdgh. This got kind of aggressive but I do feel very strongly about the treatment of Katara. My girl deserved so much better.

[omegansamurai]

I'm telling ya, if Zutara is canon in the Netflix Avatar show, there will be riots caused by the KAs...

...and I'll be here for it. Black belt in karate, I'll be fighting them. Let's go. X)

(Also, why KA? What about TA? Why NOT TA? ...Toph/Aang for those that don't know. XP )

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Nothing about Ka/taang precludes Katara being Chief of the SWT…

which is why it pisses me off even more that Katara didn’t get to have a role of any political importance whatsoever. It wouldn’t change anything about LOK’s storyline, and it would be fully in line with her character.

There’s a common anti-Zutara argument that Katara wouldn’t want to be Fire Lady, because she would want to rebuild and lead her own culture. I am sympathetic to that. Based on her canon characteristics, she might want to be a United Republic Councilwoman, Chief of the SWT, or just generally the Waterbending Master / Matriarch of the her tribe, which would be easier (though not impossible) if she weren’t married to the sovereign of another nation — I get that.

but the thing is…she didn’t get to do any of that, even though “wife of the Avatar” doesn’t contradict those roles. All the things that would be difficult for her to do if she were married to Zuko, she still didn’t get to do as Aang’s wife. She didn’t get to have a career the way her husband, or her brother, or her friends did.

so it’s extra hypocritical when Ka/taang shippers are like “but being Fire Lady would disempower Katara!” when Ka/taang canonically disempowered her! And KA fans are fine with that: they bend over backwards to justify why Katara doesn’t have a statue, or why she wasn’t there to protect Korra from the Red Lotus, or why she wasn’t at Yakone’s bloodbending trial. Yeah she got to live in the SWT — eventually, I assume, because in the comics she just follows Aang around — but what else did she get to do? Fucking nothing, apparently. Because to some people, the greatest honour for a woman is to be the hero’s wife.

[stardust948]

I didn't see her facial reaction since we were driving at the time, but she agreed that it was pretty messed up. She also said Aang felt more like a side character despite the show being named after him.

[Explaining the Dumpster Fire ATLA comics]

Me: So Katara and Aang had 3 kids-

Mom: Ew.

Me: Let me finish! It gets worse.

[sokkastyles]

What's with this common perception of K//taang as this "pure, wholesome, vanilla ship" when it actually has a lot of problematic and misogynistic elements to it?

Part of the reason is that people love to make simplistic dichotomies, which is odd for a show which has a major theme of breaking down dichotomies, but there it is.

At first glance zutara has a lot of the same beats as other enemies to lovers and hero/villain ships. Especially those involving a villainous male character and a heroic female character. And a lot of the appeal for THAT comes from the death and the maiden trope, which is as old as dirt. See Hades and Persephone. There’s also some Beauty and the Beast vibes. These are old, old tropes and they endure despite or because of the way they tap into darker aspects of the human psyche and desire. In a lot of these types of ships, the darkness is the appeal.

And zutara has some of this, which I suppose explains the popularity of the whole “I’ll save you from the pirates” thing, but really, if you were looking for that kind of ship, zutara isn’t really the one you would go for, because it’s like, the lightest possible version of this type of dynamic. Because Zuko at his most menacing is never really that threatening to the gaang, and most of the good shipping material for zutara happens after Zuko stops being such a jerk.

The appeal of any ship involving Zuko is really more of the appeal of the redeemed rival. Despite Zuko’s redemption, though, a lot of people still try to position zutara as the “dark” ship in comparison to KA, partly because the show does this in some ways - although in doing so, they kinda shot themselves in the foot, see episodes like “The Southern Raiders” and “Ember Island Players” which try to push the Zuko vs Aang thing in terms of their relationship to Katara but end up making Zuko look better in comparison.

There’s also the stigma around abuse victims that I’ve seen in other fandoms. Zuko is the “dark” option because he’s “damaged.” Even though his ending is one of hope and healing, a lot of the anti discourse reads as victim blaming, particularly when people say that Mai is a better option for Zuko because she “handles” him or puts up with him. Which is horrible for both Mai and Zuko.

I would also argue that it’s just regular old misogyny. We as a society are taught to view female desire itself as dark, which is why a lot of these types of love triangles follow the same pattern. The plucky good guy in pursuit of the girl who is attracted to a good-looking “bad boy” who is no good for her. By the end of the story, the girl will learn that the guy who is pursuing her is the one she should have chosen all along. This is the reason the myth of the Nice Guy persists. And the show creators themselves have used these words to talk about KA vs ZK, despite Katara never actually expressing attraction to Zuko in the series itself. But the idea that she could be is definitely present in the series. It’s also present in the way the fandom talks about these two ships.

And this is what really sours KA for me, too. I’ve seen SO many posts about how you have to ship it because “Aang is so nice.” And, um??? No, you don’t. In general, being “nice” is such a bizarre criteria for romance, that’s what so-called Nice Guys don’t understand. People who call themselves nice guys also usually aren’t that nice, but that isn’t the whole issue. The issue is that being nice doesn’t entitle you to a relationship.

And once you consider yourself a nice guy, you can justify all sorts of nastiness and entitlement. That’s the main difference between how KA is presented and how Zutara is presented. KA begins with the assumption that eventually Katara and Aang will get together, so every obstacle they face is just a bump in the road. Aang is, after all, so nice. He would never really hurt Katara. Therefore, if Katara feels hurt by Aang, it probably wasn’t as bad as she thought. Aang’s so nice, after all.

Which is...not actually all that wholesome at all. It has nothing at all to do with how nice Aang actually is, but the very fact that no relationship should be built on the assumption that one partner is infallible or “earned” a relationship due to being nice. That’s not how it works.

Contrast that with a guy who knows that he is capable of mistakes, who knows he’s capable of hurting others but is also capable of admitting it and apologizing and working to correct that behavior. That’s actually way more wholesome in reality.

I’m not talking about a situation where an abusive partner acts like they’re entitled for their partner to take them back because they’re sorry. In that situation there’s a likelihood that the abusive person will do the same thing again, whether or not they are actually sorry. But the beauty of Zutara is that Zuko never expects anything from Katara. He doesn’t change for Katara or the promise of her love or friendship. He changes himself, by himself, and it’s only then that Katara accepts him.

The reality is that anything that is presented as pure and wholesome is probably something you should immediately question. This is true wrt relationships, institutions, authority, and the discourse you read on the internet. People who are truly good don’t have to convince you that they’re pure. People who are truly good know that they’re fallible, and anyone who tries to convince you otherwise probably has an agenda that you should be wary of.

That’s why Iroh says that Zuko is pure, truly pure, at the end of the series. Because he’s been through the darkness and come out a better person for it. I’ll take that any day of the week over idealized vanilla white bread with misogynistic undertones.

[tea-and-la]

one thing that really irritates me is that some zk antis/ka shippers say that taang is only a “pair the spares” ship to get aang out of the way for zk. i’ve even seen one person say that they “only respect taang shippers that don’t also ship zk,” which is just ... weird to say? idk. like why be so invested in your assumption of why someone else likes a ship? cause i can guarantee you if it was only a “pair the spares” ship there would not be fan art, fics, etc, and i wouldn’t be in a group chat where we talk about taang head canons daily. 

but besides that? taang just fits some many romantic tropes that people really overlook. i mean: “i’ve seen you in a dream”/visions, in another life/many lifetimes (ummi/kuruk and tlok), opposite elements and opposites attract, childhood friends to lovers, mentor/mentee, red string of fate/destined to meet, partners in crime (the runaway episode), similar pasts (they foil each other wrt wanting to be kids and to being prevented from playing with other kids...aang because of being avatar, toph bc her parents were overprotective ab her being blind), runaways, affectionate nicknames (toph gives aang the most nicknames), parents don’t approve, etc. 

not to mention, my favorite thing about taang which is that since it is non-canon, it isn’t subjected to the male gaze or superficial attraction. it’s something that would’ve happened naturally over time. i mean aang admires her a lot for her bending FIRST, instead of her looks, and that is very meaningful to me. 

also, just ... how they push each other to grow and balance each other well. even in the god forsaken comics, they call each other out on their shit and even after not seeing eye to eye at first, they eventually come around to seeing the other’s point of view. and part of that is because they’re best friends who don’t have rose-colored glasses on so they can be 100% real with each other without being afraid of hurting the other person’s feelings.

 in the animated show, toph is able to help aang stand his ground and be more confident in a tough love type way, but she also can be soft wrt to encouraging him as well. aang is the first person to see both sides of her and to validate them completely, which is why toph opens up to him on the balcony and gets vulnerable. and he offers a way for her to be free from her parents overprotectiveness (which i find to be cute because air is the element of freedom.) and i also just love how he’s her first friend. and their little dinner scene where they had that mini food fight was just so adorable to me. 

also ... have i mentioned the amount of admiration he has for her skill??? oh my gosh it makes me soft. like the scene where she has the courage to tell her parents about her bending and they send aang away and she has that single tear on her face and aang turns back and says “i’m sorry toph.” c’mon now. and then, katara’s trying to encourage him that there are other earth benders out there and he says in a dejected voice, “not like her.” the potential was there, idc. 

[my-bated-breath]

My Bated Breath’s Master List

Here is a long due master list of all my metas! 

*** = my most well-written meta, OR what I write when I put in effort and creativity

Zutara Meta

Research Shows Zutara Would Have Been the Ideal Friends to Lovers Dynamic (part 1, part 2) ***

“Zuko and Katara were narratively written as found siblings in the Final Agni Kai”

“Zuko and Katara were written as siblings in EIP”

Scene Transition in “The Western Air Temple”

Wants vs Need - A Comparison Between Kataang, Taang, and Zutara ***

Zuko, Katara, and their “incompatible” volatility

How Zuko “projects” in TSR by @antxrcticas​

How Zuko Influenced Katara’s Character Arc

Fire Lady Katara ***

Autonomous yet supporting - Zuko and Katara’s character arcs

“I don’t ship zk because they’re most wholesome as a platonic relationship”

Katara Meta

Rage, Compassion, and the Bridge in Between ***

Revenge for a Memory ***

Zuko Meta

Zuko & Luck by @antxrcticas​

The Roku/Sozin Plot Twist for Zuko by @certified-bi-fangirl-disaster​

Why The Firebending Masters is my favorite ATLA “filler” episode, ft Zuko and Aang brotp

Meaning of Strength

Zuko and “Doing Nothing” ***

A look into the “parallels” between Kuzon/Painted Lady and Blue Spirit/Painted Lady (vaguely Anti-Kataang)

Anti-Kataang

On Ideals and Idealization ***

Aang - Absence, Favoritism, and Growth, mostly Aang-centric

Would Aang still love Katara if she killed Yon Rha? ***

Oma/Shu does not mirror Kataang

gosh, i hope this is not another tsr post

Anti-Maiko

Maiko in “The Boiling Rock” with additional commentary from @sokkastyles ***

Iroh’s (lack of) reaction to Maiko

Ship Discussion

On an Immensely Popular Post, ft. zuk/ka, ma/iko, zutara ***

(follow up to the above post)

Fandom Discussion

On Colonizer/Colonized ships ***

Canon and Non-canon by @zuko-thee-stallion​, @firelxdykatara​, @sokkastyles​

ATLA Comics

How to commit character assassinations within the first few pages of your comic

Other Fandom

Spy x Family: The Man and The Persona (or he who has a thousand faces) ***

Vincenzo: Closing Thoughts ***

[tiny-katara]

Hey, sorry you've been getting hate from KAs--been there done that and honestly all I've learned about ATLA fandom in the past couple of years has been that people here really like to stop other people from having opinions. Anyone should be allowed to salt on ships and love ships unapologetically as long as they tag correctly which you've been doing!! And anyone who's truly still trying to deny that there's any merit to ZK in the year 2022 really needs to go outside lol, a ship not being made canon by a bunch of white men in 2008 doesn't mean that all other interpretations of it are incorrect --like who put Bryke in charge of determining what relationships are the best to be put on-screen? Ah I'm rambling but really haters gonna hate and if they're gonna complain about ZK fans constantly talking about how great ZK is? Then just block the zutara tag and let us have it, K@taangs have their supposedly incredible canon so idk why they feel so threatened by ZK anyway. Aha yeah this got away from me but go you, love what you want unapologetically, and block the antis because they will never stop RIP <3 love to you!

i 100% agree! like its really not that personal lol. it's strange how angry they get about what are valid criticisms that they can so easily avoid. i don't think i will ever be able to get past the horrific ember island kiss bc its just so hard to watch and it feel violating.

and absolutely. you recognize the hype for a ship and still not ship it yourself. i can totally understand ships like zukka, but zutara just hits right for me. it's literally ridiculous that they try to argue that there was nothing there at all despite the fact that some of the ship drama was literally created on purpose.

also thank you so much for your support! it means the world to me :)

don't worry the antis tho, they've been blocked, although more are sure to surface, but it's so much easier to deal with with knowing that there are so many kind and wonderful zutara shippers out there <3

[thethiefandtheairbender]

hello! I saw your post on how you stated that you were in the atla fandom for 7+ years. i myself was also involved in the fandom a couple of years back, mostly just watching videos + reading the comics but never really engaging in fandom discourse. now that i am actively taking part in the greater fandom, but also just seeing atla everywhere, I’ve certainly been exposed to my share of... different (interesting or bizarre or downright awful-putting-ATLA-on-netflix-was-a-mistake) takes that came out of the renaissance. i wanted to know your opinion, since you’ve been in the fandom for a while: how would you say that the fandom/fandom discourse has changed in the time of the renaissance? for instance, im seeing a lot more people come out and say that they prefer zvtara as a friendship or surrogate sibling relationship, which is something I’ve never expected but I’m thrilled to discover, as that was my initial interpretation of their relationship.

honestly basically nothing has changed except there’s more aang active stans and less aang hate. one of the main changes i think has been a shift from zu.tara rhetoric in the fandom (anti kat/aang, pro sokka being zuko’s best friend, general mai & aang hate or erasure, conspiracy theories) to zu.kka rehetoric (less mai hate bc she can be shipped with ty lee and f/f uwu :33, ka/taang as a nice sideship, pro platonic zvtara, no conspiracy theory bc like, it obviously wasn’t plausible). you can kinda see the shift from which characters received the most hate (aang, mai) to which characters receive the most hate now (katara). before, aang got in the way of ZK and mai was mean to zuko. now, katara isn’t ship desirable on a massive scale and she’s mean to zuko (and sokka in TSR; hence people trying to act like sokka parented her more than the other way around, because why let katara have good traits and also be flawed, right?). so - yeah, it tracks.

that being said, the slight decline of zu.tara does mean more narrative analyses that was previously clouded by a vitriolic insistence on romance, like a sudden swell of noticing azula-katara parallels and their subsequent sisterly bonds with zuko. there’s also a little more mind for different cultures since sokka doesn’t tend to be completely sequestered into zuko’s political life the way that katara tended to be (ie. remaining southern water tribe chief v.s fire lady katara). there’s no conspiracy theory because it’s pretty obvious that nickelodeon / kids animation wouldn’t have let zu.kka fly in 2005 and it was never on the table - which thank god bc fandom conspiracy theories are some of the most annoying and batshit insane crap i have ever seen.

some things have stayed the same, though. a misunderstanding of how mai operates emotionally which leads to a misunderstanding of how mai/zuko functions as a ship. ignoring zuka.ang in favour of shipping zuko with a water tribe kid who he barely thinks about or barely thinks about him. all characters / other ships being tagged under posts that are actually about the fandom’s top prized ship that is somehow ‘woker’ / more progressive than what canon actually went with (ignoring both the narrative and spiritual point each canon ship makes). 

truly an interesting avatar cycle indeed.

[johnbottoms]

it's been 10 years since atla ended but tbh im gonna be bitter abt zutara not being canon until I die probably

[alltoofruity]

watch me pick fights and insult every anti-zutara and ka/taang shippers who hates and bashes on zutara artwork (THAT TAKES A WHOLE TIME TO MAKE BTW) on a post that is meant for zutara shippers.

like if you don’t like the ship then it’s okay it’s not for you, but that doesn’t mean that you get to bash someone’s artwork to validate your opinions.

edits and drawings and fics TAKE A LONG TIME TO MAKE.

[themomentofdavyprentiss]

I’m about to FIGHT I’m on the Avatar Wiki and it has Mai listed as Zuko’s wife??? And it’s on every page…. Iroh’s family tree, Izumi’s bio claims she’s her mom… Like did I miss something? Was something recently confirmed? Cause I’ll actually fight if someone just decided to edit the wiki with no canon evidence

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Why I feel like Ka/taang is one-sided, despite textual evidence 

ATLA does try to convince us that Katara has romantic feelings for Aang. For example: she seems thoughtful when she realizes that Aang is a powerful bender; she’s offended that he didn’t want to kiss her in the Cave of Two Lovers; she gets jealous when Sokka says On Ji and Aang look good together.

So…what’s wrong with anti-Kataangers? Do we just lack media comprehension? 

To be clear, on their own, these gestures can indicate romantic interest. But at the same time, we have stuff like “Aang is a sweet little guy, like Momo.” We have her ambivalent facial expression after he kisses her before the eclipse, and her hedging during Ember Island Players, and her anger when he kisses her anyway. In the context of these conflicting cues, Katara’s possibly romantic reactions can absolutely be interpreted in a different way, because: 

Acknowledging a friend as a potential romantic interest is not the same as actually being romantically interested in them. (Imo this is something young women struggle with, due to a combination of romance-centrism and heteronormativity that make women feel like they should be in romantic relationships, and that boys and girls who share intimate and deep feelings for one another must be romantically into each other) 

Wanting someone to find you desirable is not the same as desiring that person. (Which is something a lot of women, especially young women, struggle with. Remember all the discourse around Cat Person back in 2017?) 

Being jealous when someone flirts with your friend is not the same as wanting to be with your friend. (Especially when you see your friends as family, or if you’re accustomed to a specific type of devotion from that friend. It is jealousy, and it is possessiveness, but it doesn’t always arise from romantic feelings) 

Growing up in a patriarchal society means that your desires are always filtered through what men want from you, sometimes in an abstract male gaze-y way, and sometimes in a very visceral and interpersonal way when a boy wants you specifically. And Katara’s reactions are just that — reactions. Reactions to what other people — including Aunt Wu, Sokka, Aang himself — have insinuated about her and Aang. She’s not really proactive in her interest in Aang: we don’t really see Aang, romantically, from Katara’s POV. Under the framework of “Katara is reacting to a romantic prospect she’s kind of uncertain about,” it is completely plausible — and indeed likely — that she would sometimes act in ways that indicate romantic interest, in addition to moments where she indicates the opposite. 

Ka/taang shippers often bring up other evidence, like Katara’s despair when Azula hits Aang with lightning, or how protective she is of him when Zuko joins the Gaang. The thing is, these pieces of evidence aren’t necessarily indicative of romantic love. The fact that Katara genuinely loves Aang makes the whole thing more complicated, not less, because — especially at that age, especially when Aang is twelve years old and grew up in a sex-segregated society of monks — it is really difficult to tell the difference between platonic love and romantic love. Their mutual devotion is layered and complex yet straightforward in its sincerity. What was not straightforward, until the last five minutes of the show, is whether this devotion on Katara’s end is romantic. The romantic arc for Katara and Aang is not really an arc, as Sneezy discusses in this classic ZK video. Katara actually becomes more conflicted over time and we never see an event that clarifies her feelings. She seems more interested in him in The Headband than on the Day of the Black Sun, and she has never been more hostile to his romantic overtures than in the penultimate episode. 

And in light of this, it’s pretty easy for fans to fill in the blanks with a different interpretation: maybe Katara’s weird expression after their kiss at the invasion means she didn’t enjoy it; maybe the kiss made her realize that she doesn’t actually feel that way about Aang; maybe against her will and her better judgement, she’s developing feelings for another person, a person who hurt her and whom she fervently tried to hate until he pulled off what is in my opinion the greatest grovel of all time in the form of a life-changing field trip. Maybe. Am I saying that Zutara has more romantic interactions than Ka/taang? Of course not. But ironically, the lack of romantic interactions means that it’s not inherently one-sided, the way Ka/taang became in the latter half of season 3.

I’m not arguing that Katara’s unequivocally not into Aang. Obviously the text declares that she is, because they get married and have kids. But I am saying that there’s a very good reason that so many people, especially women, see Katara’s interest in Aang as ambiguous. It’s not because we can’t pick up “subtle” hints of growing affection. It’s because we know not all affection is romantic, and it’s really easy for someone else’s insistent romantic intentions to muddle what you want.

P.S. I first started thinking about these topics (platonic vs romantic love, desiring someone vs wanting to be desired, etc) in the context of compulsory heterosexuality, a term describing how queer women contort themselves into relationships with men even if they’re not really into men. I saw a post a few days ago joking about why so many queer women seem to be into Zutara. I wonder if part of the reason is because as queer women, we are very sensitive to the ways in which we can talk ourselves into wanting things we don’t actually want, and Katara’s romantic interest in Aang can be easily seen that way. 

[stardust948]

*Cutting through construction*

Co-worker: 🎵Secret tunnel🎵

*Awkward silence*

Me, under my breath: 🎵Through the mountain🎵

Co-worker: Oh my God, yes! Love the song but hate the episode. *Goes on an Anti-ka/taang rant*

Me:

[beyond-far-horizons]

All of this. I was particularly dismayed by this quote when I saw it. Okay I’d need to see the context but it does seem to me by this and by virtue of the relationship they wrote, A@ng’s appearance in LOK and Katara being completely marginalised against her character there + in the comics that they unconsciously projected themselves on to A@ng and whenever the episodes focused on his romantic feelings Katara was reduced to a goal/trophy and not a person. And it’s so sad and frankly sickening to see. I hate being a fan of a non-canon pairing, I’d much rather be shipping a healthy canon relationship, Ka/taang could have worked but it feels to me like their projection just scuppered it.

As for Zuko and Zutara, I don’t really see the vaunted negativity and ‘darkness’ associated with the ship from their and antis’ perspective? First they were enemies and neither one demonstrated overt attraction to the other then, the connection between them started from a place of shared empathy in the Crystal Catacombs. Zuko sympathised with her and tried to make amends, was put under enormous strain, broke and made the wrong choice and spend ages earning her forgiveness as a result. He clearly cared for her long before the lightning strike. Previous to that his all consuming goal was capturing A@ng and she was his opponent so hardly a ‘rival’ in love in that sense. But to be honest as ‘villains’/enemies go (and let me tell you I know my villains and enemies to lovers ships ;) ) Zuko was actually okay, yes they fought a few times and Katara was captured along with A@ng and Sokka but he never tortured, molested and or really attempted to kill her or the others. In fact most of the time he goes out of his way not to. To clarify I’m not saying this makes him a saint and boyfriend material at that point but considering he was her enemy he’s frankly less creepy than A@ng with the forced kisses. 

Aside from him possibly enabling her to kill the man that murdered her mother. Yes that is dark, not sure if I would agree with that choice but how would any of us feel if we were in Katara’s position? Let’s hope we never have to find out. The important thing is that Zuko supported her to overcome her demons rather than lecturing her and never asking her how she felt about it. They are child soldiers in a war, Yon Rha was an enemy combatant and war criminal if you want to get technical (as I said I wouldn’t want to kill anyone and I’m glad she didn’t.) Zuko didn’t encourage her to kill him, he didn’t even know about bloodbending, he just wanted her to find closure in her own way as he had to. 

I don’t want to always be so negative about Bryke, I’m sure they had their good side and it was their creation after all. I do worry that we take things out of context sometimes as fans and recycle quotes and work ourselves up but looking at this quote it ain’t good, that’s for sure.

You’re totally right John O’Bryan!

Zuko TOOK A LIGHTNING for KATARA

because he DOESN’T CARE about her

[tea-and-la]

I see you have met the ATLA fandom's Dear Old Friend. (I'm officially calling him that 😆) I'm surprised you found him worthy of responding to. You know, the funny thing is, I don't hate the concept of KA as friends to lovers, what I hate is the execution, that's exactly why I couldn't care less if they are in a canon romantic relationship or not. (I don't even know what canon has to do with this conversation, but cool, I guess 🤷🏾‍♀️) All characters can be shipped according to each person's choices and tastes. In fact, I have found myself seeing romantic Ka/taang and Zvkka better on my Zutara AUs because (and I know this is pretentious) I like their friendship better in those stories. It's not about forcing anything onto anyone, it's about constructing relationships between the characters and interpreting them as you want

angel! i feel you. i don't vibe completely with the dynamic of ka that we are given (like you said it's about execution), but if certain things were fixed, i'd have less of an ick towards it. i actually like katara and aang's friendship and some of their moments (like when aang encouraged her to bend the ship into the water to get away from the pirates). it's bryke's decision wrt the shift to romantic that made things very murky for me, and the little effort put into developing katara's pov. i think for me, the thing with ka is that i felt i didn't end up with a why towards the question of "why specifically they like(d)/love each other." like for aang, he pretty much is smitten by her as soon as he sees her (practically love at first sight) which can only really be based on appearance since he doesn't really know her. plus ... the absolute lack of addressing things like EIP in a mature way (bryke dropped the ball on this), and i would've respected it a lot more if aang had this realization of "okay, cool. she doesn't want to be together right now and i'm content with that." that would've given me growth and maturity and now that his feelings were out in the air, that could've been developed in the comics. but ... instead we got the finale!kiss. i have a few hcs for how i would actually like kata/ang.

i got side-tracked lol. like you said, i also don't care what's canon or not. some people treat canon as the be-all-end-all as if break-ups don't happen, or AUs can't be explored. it's that sort of rigidity in thinking patterns that makes me think that these people are really .. boring. like you said, shipping is based on what appeals to a person's tastes. and in fandom, we're all individuals, so we shouldn't be expected to just blindly like the same things just because it's canon. we all have different life experiences and that may give us a different lens into how we see a ship vs how another person does. it's why i don't consider myself really an anti of any of the ships, because i'm not going to waste time harassing the shippers about something that makes them happy just because it doesn't appeal to me. you have to be pretty miserable as a person to do something like that imo.