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onewomancitadel · 2 years ago

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I'm a Jaune fan who is tired hearing him slandered everywhere in the fandmn. Most of the hate I see has nothing to do with shounen but due to him being a male who "gets more screen time than the main girls" The hate hasnt decreased its only gone up ever since he fell into the void. People didnt want him anywhere near the main girls. I though this ship was interesting so I looked around but became worried that this would make things worse. You cleared up my concers though. Thank you.

Oh and about the simp thing. Simp is an insult directed at men. It doesnt really have anything to do with hating women. It's a term used to mock weak men who bend over backwards for women who hate them or dont care about them. Especially if the woman is a bad person and doesnt deserve it. This behavior is seen as pathetic by both men and women and I have seen it repeatedly used on Jaune and even Adam. So if Jaune helps Cinder in any way it will be seen as weak simping behavior by everyone. I didnt know how to make replies on here so I sent you multiple asks. Sorry.But I just want to say I dont agree with the term simp being used. Just wanted to explain what it means and why people keep using it(even if its the wrong context). Cringe I know but its hard to be a Jaune fan when I cant talk to people who enjoy his character.

Im the same person from before. Sorry for dumping all of this on you but the reason I asked you about this at all was because I was reading your blog and was slowly being convinced that Jaune x Cinder might actually happen.

Hi again anon. Previous ask being referred to.

The hate hasnt decreased its only gone up ever since he fell into the void. People didnt want him anywhere near the main girls

I genuinely don't know what you're talking about because I don't go on Reddit or Discord, so I'm not sure I can meaningfully prove you wrong - but I think you should remember that only the most angry or most excited people are going to be the most vocal.

The Tumblr end of the fandom has little to no problem with him, even if he's not a fan favourite.

I also have written before that the purpose of falling in Ever After is part of a major step in the monomyth and him falling doesn't really have as much to do with team R/WBY and more to do with what I expect him to go through down there, but I'm not sure if that's in your interest. Should be somewhere under my Jaune Arc tag or my V9 speculation tag.

Simp is an insult directed at men. It doesnt really have anything to do with hating women.

I know what simp means and why it's used. I don't think such a term should be normalised and it should be treated as weird as it actually is.

It is rooted in misogyny, but I don't think we're going to be in agreement. The idea that basic affection for women is pathetic is predicated upon the notion that you only should extend that type of affection towards women if you are getting something in return (that is why, as you demonstrate, it's 'worse' for a bad woman to be on the end of such). The weakness of the man in question is because he is not getting his end of the bargain, or putting more into the relationship than she 'deserves'.

Such a transactional view on relationships is rooted in a) misogyny and is b) fundamentally anti-humanistic and frankly disgusting.

This behavior is seen as pathetic by both men and women and I have seen it repeatedly used on Jaune and even Adam. So if Jaune helps Cinder in any way it will be seen as weak simping behavior by everyone.

The example you give here of Adam is precisely because he doesn't 'get' what he 'ought to' from Blake, and she's effectively not putting out.

It is not seen as pathetic by women, no, and not all men either. Yes I literally typed out not all men. It's true

You're not going to find terribly much sympathy on my part for Adam, but he's not a simp? He's an entitled secondary villain. That's not simping.

Here's a post I made discussing Adam and Cinder for your persual.

Also I think your focus on weak men probably needs some help. I literally don't know where to start with that but men extending basic affection and compassion and respect towards women is not weak. Then again I'm wondering what's going on here because Jaune is not a character who typically appeals to men really worried about weak men, since his Semblance is, well, literally compassion as a superpower. He kind of checks you at the door. So maybe you should think about what appeals to you about that? Maybe you don't even agree with the notion that 'weak' men are bad.

I totally allow that there might be something lost in translation here; I know anon asks can't always provide the full context of somebody's beliefs, or what they really mean to say.

So if Jaune helps Cinder in any way it will be seen as weak simping behavior by everyone.

Not by everyone, no. I think you seriously need an attitude check, because it sounds like you're going through something quite difficult. Not everyone is your enemy, in fact, if you recall I extended sympathy to you in my first response to your ask. You would find that if you stopped expecting the worst, there are a lot of decent people around even if we don't always agree with each other.

I had to make an edit because it turns out an ask slipped past me, thankfully doesn't change my response too much.

I didnt know how to make replies on here so I sent you multiple asks. Sorry.But I just want to say I dont agree with the term simp being used. Just wanted to explain what it means and why people keep using it(even if its the wrong context).

No worries, asks are preferred to replies. If you're a logged-in user, you can send much longer asks (like the length of blog posts, haven't tested the limit yet) but you're constrained if you're a logged-out user to the old ask style.

Sorry for dumping all of this on you but the reason I asked you about this at all was because I was reading your blog and was slowly being convinced that Jaune x Cinder might actually happen.

Thanks for checking out my blog. It pleases me my posts might have been worthwhile from the sounds of it.

As you can see, though I run a small blog, the people whom I interact with are generally a great lot - including and especially through my fanfic. The things you describe about Jaune's character and this bizarro 'simping' thing is genuinely stuff I have not encountered. This is why cultivating your own fandom space is really important and so is searching for the positives.

Knightfall fandom (and by extension Cindemption), though it's small and there's been a few hiccoughs here and there for sure (as there always is), is full of great people who get both Jaune and Cinder (or come to appreciate the other more when they have got into the ship). As I said, they make the most sense together. You just have to search for the people whom you get along with.

And please recognise those people whom you are so worried about are going to be the most vocal because they have a chip on their shoulder and are not representative of the majority. Besides which, that end of the R/WBY fandom is really ugly. Like, of all the fandoms I have been in, they carry some of the worst narrative atittudes (and worldviews). Because their attitudes predominate the space - especially in echo chambers like Reddit and Discord - it means challenging those prevailing attitudes is extremely difficult. We might have some of the same problems on Tumblr, but not nearly to the same degree, at least in terms of personal expression (and then how easily people can see what you're saying with a public tag).

So I think that's also really important to keep in mind. The platform you're using for fandom is naturally going to influence your experience, especially the types of opinions you're exposed to.

I did ask for some help with responding to this ask and my Best Mate said maybe anon really is worried about the way other people in fandom perceive him and (and by extension) his favourite character, when I was solely focussing on the lattermost. Because I am living on another planet sometimes, this didn't exactly occur to me. I mean, you need to literally live your bliss and enjoy the things you enjoy, fuckwits in a fandom for a show like R/WBY literally do not fucking matter. I might have very low self-esteem but the things that bring you joy and give meaning to your life matter more than what conformists want you to think. It's hip to be square etc.

Why would you want to be like those men who care about simping???? Or why would their opinions actually matter?? They don't understand basic narrative and human interaction. But if you are really worried about them and you want to like argue/debate with them (behaviour I do not especially understand) then you need to learn rhetoric and how to identify what they're doing wrong with their narrative interpretation, or lack thereof.

I hope you have a good day and take care. Your asks worry me quite a bit and it sounds like you need support, and I don't mean that in a bad way, I hope you look after yourself and make sure you're spending time with friends and family. If you don't have friends or family (because sometimes that advice is bad because that can be the case) make sure to do something creative or something you enjoy.

#seraphina's asks #user: anonymouse #jaune arc sadsack tag

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kitkatopinions · 4 years ago

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I'm tired of fantasy world writers being like 'oh, this is my allegory for racism in my fantasy world where actual racism doesn't exist, also I'm going to not do any research on how to properly include said allegory, badly portray it, make my main characters affected by this white or white passing, and then use racist stereotypes later.' Long post full of RWBY criticism ahead.

RWBY is terrible with the Faunus racism they chose to make part of their story. They made the White Fang an evil terrorist group, they made Blake lecture fellow Faunus about how they're the ones actually hurting themselves by using violence against each other, they framed comfortable and peaceful protest as the only good way despite establishing that peaceful protest didn't work, and they made their child slave coded character who literally got branded turn into nothing more than an abusive stalker and then had him killed without ever addressing the aforementioned child slavery. Also, the only Faunus among our main cast now that Sun is gone is one of the most privileged of the Faunus. Blake can pass as a human if she wants to, she grew up fairly rich, she has two loving parents, and she comes from an inherently powerful position as the daughter of the Chief. Having Blake be privileged would be absolutely fine, if she acknowledged her privilege, wasn’t the mouthpiece on Faunus rights, if she wasn’t the only Faunus in our main cast, and if she didn’t repeatedly lecture other Faunus.

On top of that, two of our main cast have been racist (within the narrative of the show) towards our main Faunus character, one of them learns from it (even though that as well was badly handled) and became the only member of Team RWBY to ever call out human's being racist after season three. Oh wait, except the other member of our main cast that was racist that never had it addressed because it was treated like a joke now has yelled at a racist once, in an incredibly tense situation, so I guess her racism is gone. It’s good that it’s gone, since CRWBY is pushing her and Blake as a couple, but it’s frustrating that her racism never even got a ‘that wasn’t funny’ and we never see Yang learn any better, because it feels like CRWBY brushed it off and acted like it was fun and quirky instead of treating it like the casual racism it was. They do a similar thing with Robyn in season seven which came out in 2019, when she calls Marrow ‘Wags.’ Also none of our main cast are ever seen protesting for Faunus rights (sans a two second flashback of child Blake at a rally and a non canon RWBY chibi cartoon.) I don't think Ruby - our main protagonist - has ever even mentioned Faunus rights. In a world where Adam was branded with the SDC logo under fifteen years ago at the most, racism and fighting racism should be a big part of the story, and instead, it's brushed to the side and used for the occasional 'we don't like racism btw' moment now that Blake got rid of a Faunus run terrorist group. To me, this implies that the number one threat to the Faunus… Was the Faunus, and although some humans are still anti-Faunus, no one has to devote their time or energy into fighting for equality. In season 7, Blake doesn’t even attend the rally of the political figure running against Jacques Schnee - who as far as I’m aware, is the only business owner or person in power who has ever displayed anti-Faunus racism in the show. By the way, please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. It’s been a hot minute since I watched through the show.

Instead of attending a rally that seems very important for the Faunus, Blake goes dancing with her crush. It’s like she stopped caring about politics and rights after the White Fang got removed. That feels so bad. Also, I'll note that most of the actual POC Faunus that can't pass as white in this show are on the bad side (Sienna, Fennec, Corsac, Lionheart, Ilia, Marrow.) And either they die, or they must learn to give up their destructive ways and become better people. I’m not saying this was intentional, I’m saying it’s a pattern, it’s alarming, and the writers should’ve known better.

I believe Miles Luna and Kerry Shawcross have admitted that they mishandled Faunus racism, but first off, it still doesn’t excuse them because they were grown people putting out a product that premiered in 2013 and they should’ve known to do research and do better. But second off, I still feel like they haven't done the research they need to and continue to mishandle the racism by ignoring it when they want to and bringing it up only to let us as an audience know Weiss and Yang aren't racist anymore. They can’t just cut the Faunus from their storyline now, but they can’t just ignore it, and need to actually make it a better allegory. Honestly though, one of the big reasons I'm convinced that they still haven't done any real research on how to properly portray POC or racism is because of how terribly they're handling the Ace Ops.

They're writing a fantasy show, they aren't tied to real world portrayals of law enforcement, but they went the route of commentating on real world police, corrupt police, and use of excessive force. That's fine. But things are already pretty dicey just starting off because of how they've mishandled and continue to mishandle Faunus racism. Outside of Jacques Schnee and his company and business partners, I don't remember seeing Faunus racism in Atlas (not Mantle, Atlas.) If I'm wrong about that, again, please correct me, I may have missed it. But without seeing actual discrimination against Faunus within the police force, right off the bat, that's a mishandling of commentating on police brutality. But also, other than Clover who is now dead, the Ace Ops are all people of color. CRWBY made their bad cops all not white. Even Ironwood - who is white passing - is voiced by a person of color who has said he believes that James is Chinese American. I'll point out that being a Hunter is pretty much just being a cop with more freedom and seemingly less rules. Qrow (a Beacon Huntsman) goes around destroying public property and comments on how some hunters work outside of the law, and yet it's only the Ace Ops who are held to real world ACAB rules and everyone else gets to be a good cop/law enforcement officer. Ruby gets to proudly proclaim herself a Huntress, Weiss gets to arrest people, Jaune gets told that he deserves his Huntsman license, we've been getting told for seven seasons that Hunters help people and do what's right, and we're given long time Hunters and mentor figures like Oobleck, Glynda, Qrow, and now Robyn is being framed that way, and they back that up. Even training Atlas soldiers like Neon and Flynt are fine and fun. But only the Ace Ops are bad, corrupt law enforcement officers. So that way, we can have the entirely white passing Team RWBY beat up the entirely POC, not white passing Ace Ops. Even though Team RWBY is a byproduct of the same kind of program and even though we’ve seen the police discriminate against Faunus in Vale. If CRWBY wants their allegories to be taken seriously, they need to recognize that RWBY and co are also certified police. Also, it’s really not funny to see people use ACAB as a reason why the Ace Ops are of course bad, but then turn around and simp for Winter, and be like ‘We want Winter to be redeemed, but Harriet? What a bitch!’ Like… I’m side-eyeing that pretty hard.

Speaking of Winter, now she’s in charge of the Ace Ops. But unlike Marrow, Winter doesn’t just look sad sometimes and blindly only follow direct orders without protest. She’s actually feeling all kinds of things, and she’s actually being framed as strong, intelligent, and reasonable. I’m sure no one forgot this, but I’ll note it anyway; Winter is white. Having Winter be the only Ace Op to actually listen to JRY and do things without James explicitly telling her to (although I don’t consider what she did a betrayal or going behind his back) is dicey. They could’ve given this moment to Harriet and nothing would change. ‘This lady typically follows orders, is short tempered, and pushes down her emotions, but she can still recognize a fairly good idea when she sees one and can actually think for herself, so although this isn’t a betrayal, she compromises and lets Team JRY go after their friend.’ Yeah, idk guys, I feel like there was literally no reason to slot Winter in with the Ace Ops to be the lone voice of reason when Harriet could’ve become the new leader and played the exact same role. Instead, Winter gets to have a power move where she puts Harriet in her place. Winter is given actual depth and gets to put down the black woman who the writers have made display nothing but anger for the whole season. The fans rally behind Winter because she was given depth and hate Harriet because she has none, but that’s the fault of the writers. Btw, ‘this black woman won’t show any emotion besides anger’ is a racist stereotype. It would probably have taken like five minutes on google for Luna and Shawcross to have realized that it was a bad idea to write a black woman in any sort of position of power to be constantly angry + hiding her emotions. Elm is in the same boat as Harriet, and I was going to say it’s less severe, but then I remembered that she literally attacked Ren for talking about their emotions.

Look, my point is that RWBY as a show has never handled allegories like racism and corrupt police well, and either they should stop trying and stick to ‘make believe land is just different than the real world’ or start putting in the work and fix this. By the way, I’m not trying to make anyone feel bad for watching or even enjoying RWBY, but I hope people can watch it while recognizing that some of the things CRWBY has chosen to put into their show are destructive and that the creators need to be called out. I’ll continue to hope that most RWBY fans do recognize that RWBY is deeply flawed, but I’ve just been stewing recently about someone who told me that I shouldn’t have expected the show to address Faunus racism in the Atlas arcs because that ended when Adam died.

I want to make it totally clear that I agree with and support ACAB in the real world and I'm not against it being used in fantasy works, I just think CRWBY is doing a poor job of portraying it and many fans are misusing it and it feels disrespectful. This is an actual real world movement with actual real world consequences. It feels very bad to see people use it to argue that the writers who have never handled allegories of racism well can make an all POC group be a destructive, violent, easily controlled, easily beat group of corrupt cops that need a white woman and fellow cop to be the voice of reason.

#RWDE #rwde content #rwby criticism #rwby critical

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