#anti idol culture

[jellyfishfem]

its funny, seeing k-pop fans worship all these “innocent” male artists, editing hearts and cat ears on them, carrying their pictures around like they’re their husbands away in the war, with pink flowers on the plastic frame, calling them babygirl etc because these men, like the rest of the korean men, like all men, probably watch porn, make misogynistic jokes in private, are friends with rapists or are rapists themselves, hate 6b4t feminists, call opinionated women karens, don’t see anything wrong with beating women “as long as she deserves it”…

[gryearl]

좆돌 팬덤이 남돌을 일반적인 한국남자와 구분짓고 숭배함으로써 그들에게 권력 기반을 만들어주며, 여성혐오적 가치관을 내재화하여 자신을 포함한 여성들을 대상화하고 혐오하고 있음을 가차없이 까발린다.

남돌도 결국 한남이다. 클린한 남돌은 없다. 만약 아직 클린한 남돌이 어딘가엔 있을거라 믿고 있다면 얼마나 많은 남연예인들이 범죄를 저지르고 있는지 상기해보자. 이미 범죄를 저지른 남돌조차 팬덤의 묵인 혹은 적극적인 지지 덕분에 계속해서 무대에 서고 방송에 나온다.

아이돌 문화와 상품을 소비하면서 본질적인 변화를 일으킬 수는 없으며. 숭배자체를 그만두지 않는 이상 팬덤은 여성혐오 사회에 기여하는 또다른 요인이 될 수 밖에 없다고 말한다. "탈좆돌 못하면 개돼지"라는 말은 만만하고 마음에 안드는 여자를 패는 말이 아니라 여성들에게 동료 여성으로서 책임감을 가지고 행동할것을 촉구하는 말이다.

[periprose]

I have to say it, some of you are too invested in celebrity lives. We don't know them even if we like their work. We cannot critique their dating choices or their opinions because they're not people we actually know. All we know is their images.

[hypersexualcultureisx3]

Hypersexual Culture is Ecstacy by Suicidal-Idol

.

[bandsanitizer]

nah but why tf they bringing mama to la?

[bananahkim]

I don’t understand both Kpop antis & Kpop stans

[honeyvenommusic]

.

[beepmon]

it’s not that i don’t think guys can be cutesy but there’s something that feels so manufactured about the why male idols are presented that makes it feel funny to me? like i’m not laughing bc i think guys can’t be cute or that male cuteness is funny or anything like that it just feels so performative that i can’t take it seriously? and obsvly i’m not talking about real idols i’m talking about fictional ones like en****st*rs or id**olish7 these characters i can’t take seriously bc they don’t feel authentic to me i can’t really accept them

[phobic-human]

very ehhh of you to support Hamas, which are theocrats who aren't that supported in Gaza

that being said pflp are pretty based

No I wouldn't say it's very "ehhh" of me to support Hamas, I think it is an absolute necessity to support all Palestinian resistance, regardless of ideological difference. To exclude and condemn one movement but idolize another one is blind idealism. It just so happens that Hamas has been better at organizing and constructing a resistance movement than any other faction, and that has subsequently placed them at the forefront of armed resistance against israel.

We must remember Hamas are not these spooky islamist extremists akin to the Islamic State, Hamas allows Palestinians to follow other religions like Christianity in Gaza, it has destroyed no churches in Gaza unlike israel and isis. Hamas is also allied with Hezbollah and Iran, both Shia, despite being largely Sunni. Hamas fights along side both the PFLP and DFLP under the Joint Operations Room, if Hamas was so bad than why would the Marxist-Leninist groups be allied with them? Because they are all united in a common struggle against one enemy and cannot afford to be divided. Theocrat often rings out like a snarl word, Islam is an integral part of Palestinian culture and identity.

Supporting the Palestinian resistance without Hamas, is not supporting the Palestinian resistance at all. We are in the midst of a genocide and we can't just cherry pick which groups to support. When we condemn Hamas we are dangerously aligning with both israel and anti-Palestinian groups because that is exactly what they want, sowing division and shattering unity. I highly recommend reading The Thorn And The Carnation by Yahya Sinwar because it helps explain the rise of the Islamist current in Palestine at a time when the secular/nationalist current was negotiating with israel and selling out, meanwhile the leftist current had isolated itself because it was far too busy engaging in intellectual debate rather than reality.

So yes, I support Hamas and stand with them, because I can look beyond ideological lenses and see that they are at the center of the resistance. They continue to fight heroically in defense of their people, and their contributions to the armed struggle cannot be overstated. Like it or not Hamas is not going anywhere and we cannot fully support Palestine without them.

[over-eden]

6B4T

Lately there has been talk about 4B and so I wanted to bring up 6B4T which grew from the South Korean 4B movement, and specially the 6B4T movement as it is practiced by our Chinese sisters. Before that however differences between the both are as followed:

4B

No sex with men

No giving birth

No dating men

No marriage with men

6B4T

Includes the original commandments of 4B and adds the following:

Don’t buy products from misogynistic brands

Support single women/women that have chosen to be celibate

Reject the corset (rejecting toxic beauty standards)

Reject idol culture (as in male-worship and idolization of entertainment figures this ALSO includes rejecting idol culture for female kpop idols/entertainers)

Reject otaku culture (rejecting misogynistic anime culture)

Reject religion

(**You may see 6B4T referred to as 10bt to avoid censorship as CN social media sites are heavily monitored by government censors, even outside of CN social media CN sisters will still refer to it as 10bt because 6b + 4t = 10bt)

Now that there's a basic understanding... I wanted to talk about some of the differences that the CN 6B4T movement has compared to what I usually encounter in English speaking radfem circles. Please note that this is my own experience and as with any political movement there can a myriad of women that agree and disagree (except on the 6B4T principles as a whole, those are rock solid for them haha.)

I was first aware of this movement around 2020 and have been following women on twitter/x since then that follow these beliefs. All of this has been gathered from tweets by 6B4T users on twitter/x + interactions with them. I am not a CN speaker and have used translation apps to piece together details on the 6B4T movement and have cross referenced this with some of the writings I can find in English about this and the conversations that I have had with some of the 10bt sisters that were willing to interact with me.

I do not feel comfortable just singling out specific accounts for people to look up on twitter but anyone that wants to do their own research can search the keywords on twitter 6B4T or 10bt and go under the "People" filter to populate accounts of CN women that have 6B4T and/or 10bt in their bio.

One thing that I want to talk about right away - the term donkey. It will come up quite often when you search 10bt accounts and is used to describe women that are perpetuating patriarchy because they "carry the patriarchy without protest and allow themselves to be exploited." (This includes married women.) 10bt sisters DO NOT have an emphasis on educating women that perpetuate patriarchy. You can find sayings such as:

"Feminism is like being given a weapon to support yourself with, do not use it to commit suicide by having a complex of saving donkeys" 

“Don't do donkey work for donkeys".

“Don’t get derailed by women support women, leave the donkeys alone.”

Which leads me to the next point - 10bt sisters are for empowering women independently. There is obvious acknowledgement of bonds and relationships between women but the general feeling is more to focus on the individual self, connections are based solely on shared interests and can be let go of as needed. (I have also seen discussions of letting go of romantic ties not just for straight sisters but for lesbian sisters as well.) Sentiments such as "focusing on oneself is a foundation for a happy life" "All thoughts and ideologies cannot be separated from down to earth efforts and dedication" are plenty. Really a focus away from "altruistic" causes so to speak

And on that note: anti veganism. 10bt sisters in general are adamant that 6B4T principles should only include tackling patriarchy and not have other causes added to it. Anti veganism sentiment also seems to stem from certain aspects in CN culture of serving smaller portions to young girls and discouraging them to eat meat as opposed to men. The focus on improving one's self from before also shows up here: "Women need strength to overthrow patriarchy, only then should we focus on improving the lives of animals."

Some 10bt sisters are also very open about criticism and believe women that openly identify with the 10bt movement should be prepared to have their posts critiqued, and while some will debate this... one of the things that is absolutely non negotiable is that actions MUST back up words. There’s lots of debates that go on in the 10bt movement but the bare minimum is that if you follow 6B4T then you must follow its core beliefs otherwise what are you here for? There is a huge disdain for those that say they belong to this movement but don’t follow its beliefs.

With that being said, how do the 10bt sisters feel about 4B taking off in the states? Well…

 “4B grew into 6B4T and they only dared to do half of the movement? It’s disappointing.”

“At this point in time, it is crazy to deliberately go back and start from 4B. You have someone’s shoulder to stand on but you won’t take it.”

“4B: No marriage, no giving birth , no sex, no dating. Doesn't that mean they are still serving as donkeys: supporting idols and otaku, believing in religion, using pornographic content, and consuming misogynistic brands... It really makes one recognize by a glance what stupid things they are still doing.”

“I don't understand how this kind of castration of the feminist movement came about.”

Is some of the general consensus on twitter/x.

Two more things I will add here before I wrap this up:

I have seen a post in English about other principles to follow such as 5B, 7B or 8B. I am not aware of what these principles are and could not find a CN source to confirm this so if 5B, 7B and 8B do exist, I do not believe it originated from the CN movement. 

There is also the concept of icing men out aka if a man comments on your social media posts immediately delete the comment EVEN if it is a comment in agreement. For this while I also could not find a specific CN source for the 10bt sisters, it feels like it is just natural to not interact with men. I have yet to see debates on whether someone can be part of 10bt and still have a boyfriend, husband, etc since the answer will always be a resounding NO. (And on this note… if you are curious about attitudes towards male family members.. rejection of filial piety is something that is very agreed upon. I would recommend first learning what filial piety entails in CN culture as whole if there is curiosity about this.)

I will wrap this up with one of my favorite concepts I have encountered from our 10bt sisters:

“When one woman keeps house*: five women are trapped: herself, daughter, mother, sister-in-law, and female coworkers”

[*keeps house meaning  - “when one woman marries…”] 

If there are sisters out here who are involved with this or have more info to add please feel free to do so! Also would love to get in touch with any that know more on the CN 10bt movement.  

[ddanadeai]

Also were ZeeNuNew fans really THAT pressed about yesterday's ep of Step by Step? Because why did Dee Hup and Domundi put out apologies and statements?

[sleepynegress]

*sigh* Featurism...

So, I woke up to this shit on the Twit app and I've only hit on this issue before, but today I'm digging in. Colorism is something that is not addressed often enough, but intersected within that and even more rarely spoken about, is the issue of featurism. The young actress above just got cast as Juliet in the latest big staged prestige production of Romeo and Juliet, opposite Tom Holland. And as usual the blue-checks, everybody else including "black", and even Black regulars are all-in on the cruelty.

...But I want to breakdown a nuance that is too often skipped over when this happens. The two people named with her, give away the featurism game, here; a particularly nasty form of often internalized racism. I guarantee if the young actress looked like this?

She'd definitely still get racist attacks, but the particularly nasty shit I'm seeing attacking her looks wouldn't come. In fact, I could see some people thinking they are defending her with "but she's pretty!" or more specific... "obviously she's mixed" comments. -Something pretty much every Black woman with features that don't align with a narrow perception of blackness hear often (and we'll get to why I specified women in a minute). And don't get it twisted...

These aren't exclusively nor standard white features either (see: the many ethnic features w/in white ethnic groups that also get hit to a lesser and non-racialized degree such as large "hook" and/or Romanesque noses for example, which is definitely about anti-semitism, anti-Romani sentiment, and other disparaged/discriminated against ethnic minorities in Europe) and yes, blue eyes are naturally occurring within non-mixed and dark-skinned Black people due to a mutation called Waardenburg syndrome. But there is a REASON why fetishizing even certain ethnic features within the African continental diaspora has been a thing for a long time...i.e. "the dopest Ethiopian" from the Tribe Called Quest lyric is pictured as this:

and this:

and not this:

...despite them all being Ethiopians of various tribal ethnicities.

A wide-nose, a tighter curl, coil, or zig-zag pattern of hair, fuller lips and often, but not always (because I've given examples above where features "mitigate" skin color) darker skin. Zendaya is grouped with Tracey and Francesca Amewudah-Rivers, despite being both lighter in skin color and having a Black parent and a white parent because her nose isn't what has become the standard surgical look...that too many celebs have. This includes the ones who got so-called "ethnic" work or just a slight 'refinement'. No, her nose is born w/it, made for that good African air, as I call it. Nostrils prominent, nose bridge wide:

I went make-up free as well, because even make-up practices these days, go for that narrowing highlight technique i.e. just below it's subtle.

Sza is a an example of it taken to extremes, even with the Hollywood standard "ethnic" refinement she did get.

The thing is... I don't blame or attack her for that. Because you see above that is just a taste of what happens. Lil' Kim was relentlessly bullied by the men in her life for her ethnic features for her whole life...and that is why she is off-limits to this day for me when it comes to all the work she's had done.

...And this is where I explain why I specified men being mostly exempt. It's because "Blackness" including all the physical features associated with it, is by default masculinized. ...Which is why Idris Elba is considered one of the most handsome men in the world, w/o the caveats that even Lupita Nyong'o often gets. Nobody calls Samuel L. Jackson ugly. He is even idolized and fetishized by a specifically white male gaze for how culturally "Black" he is perceived to be for all the wrong reasons, his signature "motherfucka" for example (and I could go off on a whole other tangent here, but digressing). All this to say... Featurism sucks. It's not talked about enough. Blackness in all variations is Beautiful. Tracy Chapman looking as young she does?? Hell, mark it down to both her dark skin (a natural UV protector) and not messing with her given features (and being a lesbian, men will age you. lol -I got jokes-):

P.S. THANK GOODNESS for Tems and her rising prominence as a beauty as well:

P.P.S. Even Jay-Z the billionaire rapper has had the comments over the years about his lips and nose, hence that lyric in Beyonce's Formation.

[a-very-tired-jew]

A lot of the anti-Zionist crowd reminds me of the Che shirt kids from high school and undergrad.

You know the ones I'm talking about.

In high school they'd talk about how the "system was evil" while purposefully being disruptive in class, would barely pay attention or pass a class cause the material was all "propaganda", and would wax philosophic about their teenage comprehension of Communism and its associated leaders. Any history class would eventually end up with them arguing with your teacher. Yes, they would have some good points, but at the same time their understanding of the material would be juvenile at best.

In college they'd get worse. Some of them might continue wearing the shirts and paraphernalia, but others would go all out and start wearing the black beret and/or associated dress of Che and other leaders. They now have a college vocabulary and use it to drive every discussion towards their political ideology. Almost nothing exists outside of their political framework and talking to them is exhausting.

They're also not seen as a disruption anymore, but more as that annoying Tankie who has to go "um, actually" and then go on a monologue about the CIA in class. Professors will either let them do this or tell them that it's not the time or place and that they have to teach. The former gives a small sense of triumph as they "subvert the system" (and we do this because if we don't you become more annoying), the latter causes them to grumble and complain about being "silenced".

Yes, we're aware of the CIA's actions. Yes, Che had some very good points about the role of neo-imperialism in the Global South. Yes, the USA has done some absolutely horrid shit. But what makes everyone keep these people at arms length and/or ignore them is the refusal to acknowledge the atrocities that the man on the shirt did. It's the black and white juvenile reasoning that colors everything they talk about and putting him and other leaders on a pedestal.

If you talk to anyone in the Cuban diaspora they, their family, or someone they know within the community will refer to Che as a butcher. They will tell you about the absolutely horrific things he did as a leader. They will tell you about how this man that young adults are idolizing would imprison and execute them for any number of things that they enjoy simply because he objected to them. The same thing goes for anyone who has family members that survived the USSR or any other 20th century authoritarian country that called itself Communist.

It's the refusal to acknowledge that the world exists in shades of nuance. It's the refusal to acknowledge that these authoritarian Communist governments would imprison, exile, and/or execute all of them and their friends for being queer, speaking out, their writing, their taste in music, their manner of dress, etc, etc... That countries, governments, leaders, ideologies, and people are multifaceted and not this idealized fantasy that can be argued for with whataboutisms.

We see this same behavior in the current batch of anti-Zionists. Some of them are the newest cohort of Tankies who are just repeating the same behaviors we've seen time and time again. However, in this current situation we all have access to information and are able to address things for what they are. The disruptive misinformation isn't as tolerated any more because Che shirt kids are no longer just marching around on the college green in their Communist LARP gear, but are instead coopting a war and its suffering for their Glorious Revolution accelerationist rhetoric.

The adherence and defense of Cold War era tactics, the almost rabid want to implement them, the use of whataboutism to defend your blorbo and the refusal to acknowledge their atrocities, plus the additional antisemitic laden screeds, all the while the world is attempting to move forward from this is downright regressive and juvenile.

And keep in mind, I'm an old alt kid. I've been part of counter culture for decades now. I have patches older than most of these college Tankies. I remember the Che shirt kids and how we stayed away from them because they often spouted rhetoric that was both fantastical and extremely violent. If you're unaware, Che himself believed that to achieve the socialist utopia that extreme violent revolution was necessary (sound familiar?). Not mentioning the fact that often this process gets stuck at the authoritarian step after the violent revolution.

Meanwhile, we just wanted to be accepted for wearing all black, chains, and just being "creepy". We weren't actually violent as most suburban moms believed. So we often stayed away from people who actually believed in violent rhetoric. Not only would it not look good for the alt community, but it was simply antithetical to what we believed. We wanted to be accepted in society and help improve it, not burn it down (and look where we are now, everyone wants a goth mommy. Mission achieved).

The two groups are counter culture in essence, but extremely different. So when I say the current batch of anti-Zionist protesters are just Tankie Che shirt kids, believe me. I've known their type for years.

[myobsessionsspace]

Felt like ranting, might delete later

Suuuuuupper long, like long AF🙈

I’m gonna be controversial, I don’t like fighting, hate/negativity etc. if you see this post has been deleted, it’s jut cos I can’t, I can’t deal.

Anyway, this is long and rambly and all over the place, so here goes

Has any member addressed shipping hate/antis and what happened after they did?

Don’t all groups male & female have shippers? So it’s something that sadly comes with the idol, bg, gg culture? Straight or not? Solo idols too have shippers for anyone they’ve blinked near.

If an idol hasn’t addressed the mass hate of a year ago, they didn’t address the mass hate of 5 years ago, why are they gonna address the mass hate of 2 days ago?

It’s interesting because I’m not active on IG or twitter anymore so if not for friends and seeing people allude to it here, I wouldn’t even know that craziness had happened on IG.

But honestly how much more different is it to a business owner cancelling a meet and greet at his new Japan location because of hate? The military being spammed and told to split companion buddies up because of a trip together to a beautiful location, letters being sent to a company saying stop allowing two members to be close to each other on stage and in official content?

Literally for nearly 10 years.

Why do people expect the youngest to be the mouthpiece against the people that claim to love him but don’t respect him at all, put him on a pedestal and want him separated from those that evidently love him.

Why do people expect the youngest who received soo much hate for being supported in his solo endeavours, achieving success in his solo endeavours all the while championing his members solo careers too and never letting up on saying they would return as 7 and that was the most important thing to him.

Yes he’s said things like ‘if you don’t like me now, with how I’m living and working now, thank you for liking me then and you’re free to go’ ‘it’s because people have constantly given me the confidence to be myself that I am who I am now and sorry not sorry if you still want the younger me’. He speaks for himself but he rarely even does then. When he has what happened? Did the hate stop? Did the stalking stop? Did the expectations stop? Everytime there’ll be people quoting, commenting, hashtagging, writing essay about ‘please listen to him’ then the next day back to all the age old stereotypes of him, using his words from when he was 16 in online arguments, stalkers back to sending things to his barracks, stalking his friends & family’s socials. It doesn’t make a difference.

If the father doesn’t speak on it, if the son doesn’t speak on it, if the company doesn’t speak on it…

Yes he’s very very infrequently spoken up in the past about HIM, and also about his PHYSICAL SAFTEY ‘please don’t stalk my apartment’ ‘please don’t stalk my gym’ ‘please don’t stalk my home’ ‘please don’t send things to my home’ ‘please don’t send things to my barracks’

But INTERNET CRAZINESS when?

And I knnnnoooowww many thought of the time he spoke up for 5 girls whose ages range from 16 years old to 20! None of them considered of legal age in SK. A country KNOWN for misogyny and anti feminism. We’re really gonna use that one empathetic, selfless, most likely spontaneous moment of ‘protection’ as a see he can talk out on things!

Maybe, just maybe his HYUNG who has access to the same things he has access to doesn’t want his maknae speaking for him, his HYUNG is also his own person, an adult, in the same industry and can also speak up if he wants to but CHOOSES what he chooses. Because you care does that mean his hyung cares? His hyung said fuck twitter and chills on weverse as and when he wants. His dad says y’all are doing too much in the comments so shuts them off. Simples. They can close that door and it literally doesn’t exist to them. You all can do the same.

“But why does he have his comments on?”

“But why did he address NJ stuff and not his on group stuff”

“Why doesn’t he just say he’s not dating this member or that member”

“Why doesn’t he just say he’s not gay/he’s not straight”

“This celeb/idol does, why doesn’t he?”

It’s his life, it’s his choice.

I have no clue why he’s spoken on certain things and not others.

We don’t know what he gives a shit about other than what he’s repeatedly told us:

Music

ARMY

BTS

Family & Friend

Like, he goes and takes a pic with a k-rapper, because it’s someone the fandom doesn’t like for various reasons, including disparaging remarks about the group, the fandom trended that he was being held hostage, photoshopped different people in place of the rapper etc. the fandom only accept from him what they want and how they want it.

We’re trying to make our kpop experience his, our online experience his, our concerns and cares about the fandom his. His fandom is experience isn’t ours, his online experience isn’t ours, his experience with his members isn’t ours.

All of this is to do with his life, his friend’s lives. Yet we’re soo expectant on what he should care about and what he shoild talk about.

Yes he cares about karaoke more than Internet bullshit, he’ll spend thousands and sing to 20 million people before he’ll address Internet bullshit. Oh well. What now? *le sigh* I did say I’d be ranting 🙈

Ngl though Minie gets the most hate from his own fandom and kpoppies, the maknae get the most expectations from his fandom, from all his different shippers. I’ve seen people say he should have refused all the support for his solo debut because of his other shipping halves, saying he feeds shippers or doesn’t talk enough about a shipping half, how dare he have a TikTok and cause hate with the videos he double taps that get stalked to draw conclusions, how dare he not close curtains, how dare he go live and cause frenzies, how dare he sing this song and not that song, how dare he hug someone, on and on and on.

Honestly if the fan experience isn’t hitting step back, or make changes but being angry at him over your fan/internet experience??? Likkkeee his job is to sing, dance and entertain and his doing that superbly🤌

It even got to a point where when I was still on twitter that I had to mute report accounts because that’s where I actually would get hourly updates on the hate. I had to mute people that would quote or ss the hate to comment on it.

The height of expectations people have on someone and how THEIR name is being used by millions online and what THEY should say or do is insane.

Being disappointed he doesn’t scold millions of people ranging from retirement age to middle school age for THEIR internet shenanigans.

All that would happen is…nothing

Nothing would change

Blog would have headlines

Other fandoms would talk

Fans, shippers, solos etc would take what they want from it and make it make sense to them how they wish.

Then after not even 24 hours, maybe 48 hours factory rest and everything would continue as before.

Something as deeply ingrained as shipping craziness, as solo craziness…at this point I don’t see it going anywhere even if one member talks on it, 7 members, the company, the government, angels or aliens.

Another thing 😬

Just because we have a need to know itch, we see what antis say, because we have a need to protect and defend, we gotta see what the antis are saying to counteract them, sometimes counter attack. In counter attacking the same tools that antis use are being utilised. In protecting the same words are being said or remixed but different members are being replaced.

If people wanna fight fire with fire instead or replacing your faves name with their faves name, speak on the account user themselves! When people say you’re ’setting up this member or that member’ is because people’s way of fighting fire with fire or clapping back is never the person that said the bullshit but the member, hate what someone online said about a member, then it’s that account user that is your target not the member, the member is thousands of miles away minding their business and getting pulled into millions of people’s group chats, threads, essay posts, clapbacks etc.

Just because we see and are constantly surrounded by the hateful shit doesn’t mean the members are and so they’re not gonna act like that’s their whole internet life.

They watch memes, funny TikToks, series, maybe google their name for the cute art and jokes army have, search their name on twitter and YouTube to re-live performances etc

But are they really following I dunno, like report accounts or something to see the shit day in and day out? Going through the quotes of hit tweets to see the bullshit there? Going through all the English back and forth between antis and seeing the edits and threads?

Yea they know shit, no doubt, but are their internet lives as immersed in the fan wars, shipper, solo etc subspaces or is their shit curated? Their timeline totally different than yours?

Why do you want them to be as stressed online as you are?

If they haven’t seen it that’s good right?

If they scroll online for hours and aren’t compelled to address the hate regardless then it just doesn’t get to them as much as it does you.

Then that’s good right? That’s what we want, right, right??

Wanting them to talk on this or talk on that is more for our comfort than theirs. Cos imagine this, imagine they say something in a dressing it that YOU don’t agree with, then what? They shouldn’t have spoken at all right?

All I know is that we expect soo much of them, we want them to say and do what we want them to say or do, from fans, solos, akgaes and even antis, we all wanna control them in one way or another and we need to reflect on that 😪

Over 20 MILLION PEOPLE watched his live, supporters, haters, media, old and new acquaintances, industry peers, family, friends of family…20 MILLION PEOPLE but yea he didn’t address solos/shipper/antis bullshit🙄

Some of the crap to come from a carefree live full of singing and catching up:

Fans taking what they want to run with it based on a translator working rapid fire in real time to translate in the middle of the night (his live was two hours from midnight to like 2am) running on multiple late nights and early mornings for work and personal life and translating for free. Being mad that she didn’t translate every word and utterance a lost all songs that came from a TWO HOUR live at midnight!

Fans taking him singing songs as validation to their y/n fantasies, their homophobia, their shipping fantasies/wars etc

Kpoppies fighting, slandering his singing abilities over him singing a song

Hate for mentioning his enlistment companion

Mentioning the person you enlisted with and spend the majority of your time with is soo evil??

The pipeline to being a solo fan/akgae of a person to becoming their anti and hating them, insulting them by way of insulting their member. Completely disregarding their vulnerability and making it about hate.

For singing members songs

I’m not messing up my algorithms to show TikTok, IG & YouTube examples 😖

[hana-no-seiiki]

YAN! DAMIAN WAYNE & YAN! JONATHAN KENT with their shared darling.

You are hella shy around them. You never defend yourself, never speak out of turn. Meek. You appeal extremely well to their hero instincts; to guide and protect.

A while into your (forced, maybe even fictional) relationship, they introduce you to the titans.

Surprise surprise YAN! FANS TEEN TITANS already knew you. Who wouldn’t recognize the super idol [Y/N] [L/N]?

The two suddenly realized that you’re the star the team always talked about but they were just too busy stalking you to even realize. (Also cause Damian is the anti-basic and baby ghorl Jon is a bit out of the loop when it comes to pop culture)

Cue the pair suddenly becoming your biggest fanboys.

Jon who’s a lot more open about it in public. Wearing your merch all over his body. Even using his hero identity to spread your name around. Memorized fan dances to obnoxiously perform if you ever go on stage again.

While Damian is a lot more low-key and uses it as a way to blackmail and psychoanalyze you. He stalks all your socials. Has watched all your concerts and listened to all your albums on loop.

Uses his money to flex but as an anonymous user and even brings the whole Batfam into it. Particularly his dad and oldest brother. Mostly cause Bruce is rich and can fund his obsession, while Dick is a great enabler and is already a fan of you.

Both probably engage on internet wars on a daily.

Anyways it’s all cute until they ruin your career by fucking you live for all to see, in their costumes to boot.

Aight byeeeee

[bangtanhoesthings]

I saw a comment somewhere that said " I believe Jikook are really together and they will live their truth out loud once they come out of the military.''

Let me put my tin foil hat on and accept the "togetherness" beyond all reasonable doubt for the sake of this argument .

Do I think they would?

Hmm, maybe but probably not.

Let me explain.

I lived in Korea for 14 months whilst getting my Masters. That country is very conservative. I tend to tell my friends that technologically and developmentally, they are leaps and bounds above most countries. But culturally and societal wise, most of Korea is still in the 1950s.

Looking at Korea through the lens of kpop and also kdramas makes people think it's an accepting society. Watching your fave male idols wear skirts, blush, pink, dangle earrings does nothing for the actual LGBTQ rights on the ground. Absolutely nothing. Queer people in South Korea face prejudice, discrimination, and other barriers to social inclusion, the worst among the countries in the developed world. Just a few weeks ago, over 200K Christians took to the streets to protest the anti-discrimination law which among other things would have been a positive step for queer rights.

In a country that's highly unaccepting of things that are different, coming out can put your life and safety at risk and is not advisable.

Would idols from a big group like BTS coming out be a positive thing for the 🌈 movement in SK? Of course. But it would still be an uphill battle and the toll it would take on their mental health is unimaginable.

What I am trying to say is, put your expectations at zero. Because the reality is if any of the members of BTS are LGBTQ, they may never come out and that's okay. They don't owe anyone that. The way society doesn't expect straight people to come out, is the same way it should stop expecting queer people to as well.

I am bisexual and I live in a country where being queer is a criminal offence. I could be arrested and put in prison. I have made peace with the fact that I will never come out, I probably never will be with a woman either. It breaks my heart but that's my reality. Jikook reality is not as extreme as mine, but sometimes the court of public opinion can be just as brutal.

All in all, I believe in living life on your own terms, whatever that looks like. Whether it's taking the risk-jumping off a cliff and learning how to fly in the process. Or taking the safer route and choosing not to jump at all. As long as you are happy, I am happy for you.

I think this grace should be extended to these men, whatever their orientation may be. BTS have made history by paving the way in some circles, this 🌈 may be one of the doors they decide to open for idols someday. Or it is just as likely we may never know, and that's ok. It's none of our business anyway.

Peace and love.