#anti henry talbot

[this-is-krikkit]

mary crawley 💕

ooh thank you for this one!!

favorite thing about her: her wit and killer lines, including at the worst of times (aka being brutally honest with her one sister left when Sybil died lmao we love a heartless (sometimes, often, but not always) Queen)

least favorite thing about her: her hipocrisy about being so privileged and thinking everything is owed to her, although i'm conflicted about it bc i sort of get the frustration: if she was a man half as smart as she is she wouldn't have struggled that much and everything truly would have gone to her with no efforts or marriages needed

favorite line: "YOU MUST PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE THINGS I SAY" AAAAAAH (oops sorry i get emotional every time)

brOTP: i have an antibrotp? as in i can't stand her friendship with tom. i hate that guy so much i wish he would have died after his kid was born instead of his wife 😭

OTP: MARY X MATTHEW FTW I LIVE IN DENIAL BYEEE. also if i absolutely had to pick a post-matthew otp, you already know how hard i ship her with mabel lane hehehehe

nOTP: flat faced 1 dimensional henry 🤮🤮 snake faced pale-copy-of-early-matthew-banter charles 🤮🤮 pretty but shallow forgothisname sexfriend 🤮

random headcanon: no man deserved for her to give them the time of the day after matthew died and she was actually attracted to mabel lane, but too formated by her stereotypes and traditions to cross that barrier. a Shame™️

unpopular opinion: she should never have gotten along so well with tom, when he was always so overly critical of their family, when she knows how pushy he was with her sister at the beginning of their relationship. although it was a good idea to not let him leave with sybil's kid bc fuck if i trusted that dickhead to raise a kid.

song i associate with her: i can't find one!! she's too good for a song i guess

favorite picture of her: the one post-matthew era thing i did like was her makeover (which i think matthew would have gone NUTS over) + look at her in this gif, side-eyeing the shit out of Mabel with her Period Dyke haircut & outfit & riding a horse aaaaah im gay

[pizacat72]

If they were just going to write Mary with marriage troubles after they married her off to Henry anyway, I really don't see why they couldn't have just kept her single.

[hitchell-mope]

So apparently they’re making a third Downton Abbey movie.

Not sure how I feel about that. Especially since they’re bringing Barrow back and I want him dead for what he did to Jimmy Kent. But hopefully Matthew Goode can come back because I quite like Henry Talbot. I also hope it’s mainly about Mary and Edith cuts out her pathetic whining. Or at the very least I sincerely hope that Mary gets to punch Edith at least once. As a treat for me. It’s what I deserve and then some.

TL;DR: I hate Barrow. I don’t care for Edith. And I hope Downton Abbey 3 is primarily about Mary and Henry. Because apart from John and Anna they’re the only two I actually care about.

[fideidefenswhore]

Hi curious if you've read this: https://thecreationofanneboleyn.wordpress.com/tag/the-white-queen/

It's an article Susan Bordo wrote in 2013 comparing Anne Boleyn and Elizabeth Woodville to each other when the The White Queen came out in June of that year. Or more precisely how PG imagined both of them to be. Basically, Bordo thinks Gregory wrote her Elizabeth Woodville as an apology to Anne Boleyn. Thoughts?

Hi!

Yeah, this raises some interesting points, but, no, I don't really think PGreg wrote TWQ's heroine as means of apology to how she wrote TOBG's...anti-heroine, whether subconsciously or otherwise.

In the PGregverse, it does seem like the Woodvilles (and it is interesting, I suppose, that she wrote TOBG first) are, actually, much like the Boleyn(-Howard, as she makes clear) 'family firm'; or rather, that the Boleyns are like the Woodvilles, with the soul extracted:

'It is a battle to the death,' she says simply. 'That is what it means to be Queen of England. You are not Melusina, rising from a fountain to easy happiness. You will not be a beautiful woman at court with nothing to do but make magic. The road you have chosen will mean that you have to spend your life scheming and fighting. Our task, as your family, is to make sure you win.”

As an author, the Boleyns are possibly the most straightforward vehicle to craft narrative scandal, drama, and danger. It's not that the Woodvilles' path, forged during the fraught time of the WoTR (particularly, Elizabeth taking sanctuary with her family, several times, harkens to the dire predictions of Chapuys for AB, that there would be an uprising against her specifically that would push her into hiding, himself pushing for her excommunication, hoping that the people of England would make the hoped-for interdict follow her 'wherever she went'); was absent of these things (the several executions of members of their family, the bastardization of Elizabeth's children with Edward IV), but, simply put, there is not as direct of a foil to them as there is COA and Princess Mary, to the Boleyns. Nothing...is really, truly analagous, although similarities can be found (Warwick as advisor versus Wolsey or Cromwell-- JamesFrainification-- I suppose, Margaret of Anjou as 'rightful queen', although she does not seem to have had the immense public sympathy that COA did, nor was she, obviously, Edward IV's wife; on that note, Eleanor Talbot would be...a sensationalistic reach to quantify as a 'parallel', obviously she did not live with Edward as his wife for so many years, nor have his children, nor a coronation, although it is funny that there's that interlink in the Boleyn drama- her being a relation of Mary Talbot, Henry Percy's wife).

I do take her point on paralleling portrayals overall of Anne&Henry vs Edward&Elizabeth, though, not just merely TOBG, but more as a criticism of the sort of...static mold of this genre, I suppose? If the audience were to watch a HVIII that either soon recovered from, or cloaked, his disappointment in his first child by Anne being a daughter (rather than how it's usually written, as she summarizes in Par5, which contradicts, I would argue, evidence that suggests it was otherwise); then there would be suspense in what happens later. There is very minimal effort to subvert audience expectations in this way, however, it is almost like scriptwriters have given up on the element of suspense in storytelling here because the story is so well-known.

[lieutenant-rasczak]

More Downton Fun with ChatGPT

Title: "A Deadly Affair at Downton"

Opening Shot: We see the grand entrance of Downton Abbey as the sun sets. The camera moves through the hallways, showing the opulence and grandeur of the mansion. Cut to a shot of DCI Jones and DS Nelson arriving at Downton Abbey.

Act One: Lady Mary invites the detectives to investigate a series of mysterious deaths that have occurred at the estate. The first victim is Henry Talbot, a former suitor of Lady Mary, who was killed in a riding accident. The detectives soon discover that there is a complex web of relationships and secrets within the family and staff at Downton Abbey.

Act Two: As the investigation progresses, the detectives discover that one of the staff members, a young maid named Daisy, has been poisoned. They also find out that Lady Edith has been blackmailed by Oswald Mosely, who threatens to expose her relationship with Michael Gregson after she wrote many anti-Nazi editorials in The Sketch.

Act Three: The detectives uncover more secrets as they investigate the deaths of several other named victims, including a riding instructor who was bludgeoned to death, and a local farmer who was impaled on a pitchfork. They also discover that Lord Grantham has been attempting to buy the village of Badgers Drift, leading to tension between the estate and the local community.

Act Four: The detectives confront the suspects, and after a tense conversation, they reveal that the killer is none other than Lady Mary's new suitor, a wealthy businessman who had been using the estate for his own financial gain. He had killed the victims in order to cover up his illegal activities, and had been manipulating the relationships and secrets within the family and staff at Downton Abbey in order to maintain his position of power.

Closing Shot: The killer is taken into custody, and the camera lingers on the grand mansion as the sun sets. The villagers are left to ponder the mysteries and secrets that lay hidden within the walls of Downton Abbey, while DCI Jones tries to resist his attraction to Lady Mary, and DCI Barnaby continues to ask Mrs. Patmore for her curry recipes. The episode ends with Lady Edith and Lady Mary reconciling over their shared experiences, and with the estate facing a new era of uncertainty and change.

[viscountessbranksome]

So I finally saw a new era and my biggest takeaway is I was right this whole time—Evelyn Napier would make a better husband than Henry Talbot

[emmybrown]

was complaining about s6 to a friend and she said this 😭

[tirsu]

Oh, there will be Downton Abbey movie? Nice, nice.

Can’t wait to see Thomas and Mary again. Though, I’m still in denial about Mary’s second husband. They just don’t work. If you ask me, Mary didn’t marry anyone, nope. She’s single mom waiting amazing man, who loves her like Matthew (still pissed off that Matthew died).

Hoping that Thomas gets his happy ending. And please, let there be scene’s between Thomas and little mister George.

Oh and tell me that Lily James will return as Rose. She was amazing! Loved her! And Anna!

[agir1ukn0w]

so like I really don’t care if you think Henry and Mary got together too quickly or whatever, but if you’re going by that logic then she definitely couldn’t have ended up with Lord Gillingham because a) his shitfuck valet (who he probably would have fired anyway if he ever found out what he did to Anna) and b) WE ONLY SAW THEM TOGETHER FOR LIKE A WEEK ON THE SHOW!! So criticize Henry and Mary’s quick-ish courtship and marriage all you want, but pls if you’re going to do it keep it to your own damn tags so the rest of us can enjoy these ships/characters in peace.

[arielseaworth]

I didn't even realize there's a new Downton Abbey movie until my aunt started talking about Mary's husband not being in the trailer.

[gaitwae]

Songs from "Midnights" as Downton Abbey Characters

Lavender Haze - Matthew Crawley (I know it's F POV but trust me on this)

Maroon - Sybil Crawley

Anti-Hero - Mary Crawley

Snow on the Beach - Thomas Barrow

You're on Your Own, Kid - Edith Crawley

Midnight Rain - Henry Talbot

Question...? - Lavinia Swire

Vigilante S*** - O'Brien

Bejeweled - Rose MacClare

Labyrinth - Isobel Crawley

Karma - Cora Crawley

Sweet Nothing - Robert Crawley

Mastermind - Violet Crawley

[hitchell-mope]

Good finale. Kinda wish it was more about Mary. But still. Good finale.

[handeaux]

Cincinnati Was Rocked in 1908 By UC Professor’s Free-Love Ideas

Scandals in Cincinnati come in abundant variety, from sex and politics to greed and cruelty. Philosophic scandals are somewhat rare here, so it was surprising when Henry Heath Bawden got fired from the University of Cincinnati in 1908 for pondering the sanctity of marriage.

Bawden arrived at UC in 1907 as Professor of Philosophy. He was, in fact, the entire Philosophy Department. At the time, UC’s College of Liberal Arts boasted just 27 faculty and Bawden was the only one teaching philosophy. He came to Cincinnati from an endowed professorship at Vassar. During six years at that elite school, he proved so popular that the students dedicated the 1906 yearbook to him. Bawden and his wife were both Ohio natives and both had family here, so no one questioned why he would give up a distinguished position at one of the Seven Sisters – women’s colleges considered equal to the Ivy League – to teach at a small, municipal college out in the hinterlands.

By all accounts, Bawden was an engaging lecturer, a beneficial mentor and a creative thinker. He wrote the standard introductory text for an emerging school of American philosophy known as Pragmatism. His problem was, he didn’t much care for marriage and insisted on discussing his aversion.

One day in May 1908, Bawden’s philosophy caught up with him when Mrs. Bawden, the former Susan Talbot of Granville, Ohio, sat down to chat with UC President Charles Dabney. Why Mrs. Bawden met with President Dabney remains a mystery. At the time, several motivations were proposed:

Mrs. Bawden was tired of defending her husband and explaining their unusual living arrangements, so she called Dabney.

Gossip about the Bawdens’ unusual living arrangements was circulating among the UC faculty and, more importantly, donors, so Dabney called her.

Some students were upset that Bawden expressed anti-Christian beliefs in class.

The “unusual living arrangements” were these: The Bawdens lived in the Auburn Hotel on Malvern Place in Mount Auburn. Mrs. Bawden and the couple’s two sons lived in a suite at the main hotel, while Professor Bawden lived across the street in the annex.

Whatever the genesis of the meeting, it soon came out that Bawden had been asked to leave Vassar after Mrs. Bawden discovered some passionate letters and erotic poetry written by her husband to a young research assistant. Confronted with the documents, Bawden confessed, told his wife he was in love with the graduate student and that his philosophy of marriage allowed him to associate with anyone for whom he felt affinity or “comradeship.”

Everyone agreed that Professor Bawden, outside his indiscreet love notes, had not acted on his philosophical yearnings, nor had he propounded his radical beliefs in the classroom. His philosophy, nevertheless, disqualified him from teaching in the presence of impressionable young minds, particularly those of the fairer sex, according to President Dabney, who told the Cincinnati Commercial Tribune [12 May 1908]:

“No man whose opinions or whose manner of life are destructive of the very foundation of human society will be permitted to teach in any institution for which I am responsible.”

At the time the scandal broke, Bawden had two weeks left on his teaching contract. UC decided that any student who declined to attend the remainder of Bawden’s classes would be counted as “present” and no women could attend his classes without a note from their parents.

Just what were these dangerous beliefs propounded by H. Heath Bawden? As he himself summarized them in a manifesto published by the Cincinnati Times-Star:

“Fellowship, comradeship, is the only basis of a true marriage, and when, for any reason, this has vanished, the real immorality is to seek to keep up the outward form when the inward essence has fled.”

The university and the local media interpreted that statement as promoting free love, sexual license and the abolition of marriage. Here is the Cincinnati Enquirer’s [12 May 1908] take:

“Prof. Bawden’s views are unique, but not new. He holds to the creed of the ‘Free Thinkers.’ As to marriage, he holds that it is a good institution only in so far as it is a provision for the offspring of the relation of the sexes. Man and woman should live only as comrades – with comradeship only as a tie.”

And here is an excerpt from a Cincinnati Post [13 May 1908] editorial:

“And when a college professor makes known that his belief lies NOT in marriage as the safety valve on all society – at once its blessing and its protection – but in a love of the ‘affinity’ type, his day of usefulness as a pedagogue has passed.”

To recount: Bawden wrote some passionate words to a Vassar student that, apparently, were never delivered. It is possible – none of the media reports suggest this – that Bawden may have expressed his desires in some other manner. Everyone agreed that Bawden never had actual sexual relations with anyone other than his wife. Bawden’s students insist he never discussed his opinions on marriage in class. In brief, Professor Henry Heath Bawden was fired because of his scandalous but entirely personal beliefs.

Bawden told the inquisitive that, if they really wanted to know what he was thinking, he was ready to publish four books – one on Pragmatism, one on education and one on aesthetics, plus a volume of his love poetry. The newspapers roasted him for this shameless self-promotion.

The Enquirer printed more unsubstantiated rumors than the other local papers and claimed that Bawden’s Vassar inamorata had fled Poughkeepsie and was now living in California. That’s where Bawden landed after his dismissal from UC.

Mrs. Bawden took the children and moved in with Professor Bawden’s parents. She divorced her wayward philosopher in 1909, never remarried and lived until 1953. Both sons earned Ph.D.s and became professors.

Bawden’s book on Pragmatism was published in 1910 and is still regarded as a classic, although Pragmatism was long ago superseded by other schools of thought. By the time his book came out, Bawden was living as Henry H. Bawden, working as a truck farmer in San Ysidro, California. Over the next 40 years, he built a brand new reputation as a pioneer in organic farming.

During his time in California, Bawden lived with one woman for a while, got sued for enticing a married woman to live with him and married and divorced another woman. No word on whether he found his true comrade.

None of his other books ever saw print. Bawden died in 1950 and is buried in San Diego.

[thatscarletflycatcher]

Why do you like Sybil/Mathew if you don’t mind me asking? And what characters frustrate you on Downton Abbey and why?

Full disclosure, I have always been a big Mary and Mary/Matthew anti (I’m full of unpopular opinions about DA and that’s why I don’t talk much about it). I feel like their relationship was based on sexual chemistry and nothing more. The ending of season 1 when Mary hesitates to have him because he may not be the heir after all sealed my opinion.

In my dream DA au, Lavinia never gets sick, and Matthew and her marry and move back to Manchester. William survives too, though he cannot do the same work he did before because his lungs are permanently damaged. Daisy grows a spine and tells him she doesn’t love him and cannot possibly marry him. Matthew takes William with him the same way lord Grantham took Mr. Bates as his valet. Mary accepts all this as great heartedly as she did when Matthew and Lavinia were engaged (the only time I tolerated her character), and gets her happy ending down the line with Henry Talbot.

I started shipping Matthew and Sybil on that episode in which she gets hurt in a rally and he tries to protect her and brings her home with Branson. They looked cute together and then later on I realized that things that I liked about Lavinia were things Sybil had too: sweet, idealistic, mindful of others and their feelings, deep feelers, not afraid of toil and “lowly” work... 

As for the characters that exasperate me... it’d be easier to mention the ones that did not XD : lady Edith, lord Grantham, Matthew, Sybil, William, lady Violet, Mrs. Hughes, Anna, Gwen, Rosamund, Lavinia, Mr. Lang, Baxter... and that’s pretty much it.

[thephantomcasebook]

The ‘Goode’ question ...

So, I’m gonna jump in and immediately jump out of this fan war before I get dragged in ... 

I will not give my opinion of Matthew Goode, he’s been in movies I quite enjoy, and I don’t dislike him. But I’m not super into his character in Downton. I feel that his personality would’ve been a better fit for an adult George Crawley ... but that’s me. 

But what I will say about the matter is to check some of the misconceptions about the people in the anti-Matthew Goode camp, especially the people blaming Julian Fellowes for the character of Henry Talbot. 

As a writer of Downton fanfiction for almost two straight years, I’ve done a ton of research on the characters, including watching a ton of cast interviews ,,, and if you want someone to blame for Henry Talbot ... 

All the blame lies with Michelle Dockery, not Fellowes. 

In a interview to promote Season 6, Michelle Dockery admitted that she asked multiple times that Julian Fellowes write Mary an ending with a husband and a father for George. She also fully admits in several interviews that she was the one who wouldn’t let it go, when the original finale was that Mary ended being Agent of the Estate and mother to George and Sybbie.  

If you want to blame anyone for Matthew Goode ... you blame Alan Leech and Michelle Dockery, both of whom pulled strings to get him on the show, because, Alan Leech became close with Matthew Goode on “The Imitation Game” and Leech and Dockery hung out with him a bunch afterward. 

That’s all I’ll say on the matter, fight amongst yourselves and happy hunting. 

[lesleepingcat]

What is this anti-Matthew Goode thing? 

I get the Henry Talbot hate. I really don’t like him myself, but I don't think anyone is blaming the actor for this mess. I admit that I’m a Matthew Crawley fan and I had zero interest in seeing Mary in another romance. However, if I had to choose between the four suitors, I would’ve chosen Charles. 

And I think it is highly unfair to blame any of the actors for the mess that was Mary/Henry. 

Yes, Michelle Dockery may have wanted Matthew Goode to come and play her husband, but she’s not responsible for the writing. Julian Fellowes is.The whole courtship was barely seen on screen. There was a lot of other characters telling us they were in love instead of actually showing the audience their romance. Even some people that were really excited about Matthew Goode joining the cast as Mary’s love interest ended up being disappointed.