#anti fridging marian

[henryhas2moms]

sometimes it does feel like ouat is trying to be a bad show. there’s no better explanation for why they fridged marian not once, not twice but THREE distinct times, each more morally dubious than the last.

[theonceoverthinker]

OUAT 4X03 - Rocky Road

Will Ingrid succeed in ICE-olating Elsa from our heroes?

Shut up! That was funny!

Hit up my review below the cut to find out what we think of her cold con (And to see if I make any more bad puns)!

Main Takeaways

Past

Kristoph and Elsa’s friendship runs the show here and it does so very well. It was a really smart idea tackling the unconventional ways that the both of them grew up as a means of having them bond. And as I’ll go over later, I like the use of trust as a theme in this segment.

Beyond that, apart from a just really solid story, there’s not a lot to talk about here. So onwards!

Present

I remember when I was just a lurker in this fandom, people for some reason were up in arms about why Ingrid froze Marian’s heart and for me, it always made sense. Elsa was getting to be buddy-buddy with the heroes and would soon be welcomed into the town. Because of that, while there was still time for people to be suspicious and doubtful of Elsa, Ingrid froze Marian’s heart so that the ensuing fear of the townspeople could combat the trust that the heroes had in her and give Elsa that sense of rejection. Like, while I don’t like this arc in the sense that it quite literally fridges Marian, it does make sense in terms of Ingrid’s motivations. It’s actually a genius plan on her part and really sets up the type of villain she is. She’s complicated in that she wants her sisters to come to her willingly, but has no problem using her control over memories to manipulate exactly what “willingly” entails.

Snow’s story is really good. I know a lot of people feel like Baby Neal should have more focus, but I feel the opposite. He’s a baby. He’s gonna poop and cry and most of the interesting content regarding him is the reaction of his parents and sibling to his presence. I feel like all we really need are to see glimpses of Snow and David parenting every now and then and this was probably the best of them. That’s because it got right to the heart of the matter: Snow is afraid for Baby Neal because of what happened with Emma. She lives in Storybrooke, Maine, the land where danger goes to have a fucking bar mitzvah! That fear is something clear and understandable and I’m happy that it got the attention it deserves.

Operation Mongoose is born! ...Well, officially now! I like how Operation Mongoose is portrayed as an operation that is in some ways extremely flawed in the places that it’s coming from, but also that involving Henry allows for it to refocus it into something good! It adds a nice layer of complexity to this operation and serves as a reflection of the Regal Believer dynamic!

There are so many good dynamics here, and besides my front runner for favorite dynamic, I really have to give credit to Emma and Regina’s here. While I don’t like the upcoming resolution to their conflict, what I do like is the buildup here. Regina, still angry with Emma, is back to making cutting and snippy remarks and Emma, while not taking them sitting down, does let those words get to her in a way. Those feelings of inadequacy, while the basis of which is wrong, are valid feelings for her to have and how they’re brought up and affect Emma throughout the episode is brutal.

...It should say a lot about how little of an impression Will Scarlet left on me that I kept forgetting that this was his first episode in the main series. I just...I just don’t get it. Well, I get that apparently, Will’s actor was still under contract and thus needed to be part of the main series, but to trap him in Storybrooke in such a tragic way, one that went presumably unsolved until the end of the series (Which was one hell of a jump) was just awful. I loved Will in the Wonderland spinoff and his friendship with Alice so to know that he loses that connection as well as his relationship with Ana really hurts! And to do what? Something that maybe another one of the more sidelined side characters could’ve done in his place? They just did him dirty. That all having been said, within the context of this episode and the arc, he’s...serviceable. He’s himself and Will Scarlet is an enjoyable character. He has good chemistry with Emma and David.

BUT let’s move aside from that to touch upon Ingrid and Emma’s dynamic! I love how just Emma’s appearance is enough to distract Ingrid from her plans. Like, she’s honestly about to freakin’ win and Emma pulls her from victory!

All Encompassing

Trust is the big theme of today’s episode and it gets a nice deep exploration. Elsa puts it best: “When you have the weight of the world on your shoulders, it can be hard to let people in, to trust them. Even when they want what’s best for you.” And this applies to several characters in this episode, namely Elsa in the flashback, Emma, Snow, and Rumple (A weird example, I know, but I’ll explain).

The thing that these four have in common in the context of this episode is that they think they know best, when that’s not necessarily true, if at all. I think in the first three examples, they’re rather self explanatory in the episode. Snow doesn’t want to trust anyone with Baby Neal because of the weight of raising a child again is something that scares her. Elsa doesn’t want to trust anyone else with her mission to get the urn because she feels that as the queen, she should be able to take care of this herself and later that she -- as a magic user -- should be able to use the urn herself to find out more about other magic users. Emma doesn’t want anyone coming along on her current mission so that she can save the day and regain her sense of purpose.

As for Rumple, I think this sentiment applies to him in the sense that the weight of the world for him now is his power and Belle. With Bae (And by extension, so much of his purpose in life) gone, Belle and his power is all he really has left. With the weight of his unhindered power now on his shoulder as it’s a possibility thanks to the hat, he doesn’t want to trust Belle with that information because he knows that if she knows the cost of it, she’ll try to deter him from pursuing his goal (And rightfully so, both with how Belle would act and how just that is). But especially after having his powers manhandled for a year, he doesn’t want to lose his chance of being free of the dagger.

Stream of Consciousness

-”And ice cream.” You know, a lot of people have all sorts of HC’s about Roland after he and the others go back to the EF and I love them, but if I may contribute my own, I want Roland to bring ice cream, the sweetest magic of all, back to his home!

-”Please mom? Regina let me.” Roland, you adorable and conniving little boy! You are going to run the world through three scoops of ice cream and a smile that can melt them!

-I also just realized that with the context of Marian being Zelena, I’m sure she’s just THRILLED with someone else comparing her to Regina! XD

-Marilena, order the carrot ice cream! It will surely leave you STONED! XD

-”There is no problem that can’t be solved with a little ice cream.” This may be my favorite opening scene in the show! XD

-”Any Given Sundae” is one of my favorite puns in this series, and given how much I love puns, that’s saying something!

-”Well, an all too common affliction around these parts.” ...It really is!

-Gotta say, Rumple’s counter to the super power was fucking great! Like, he had that down to a science! I actually HC that he may have given that to her. On some level, he knew she’d be on her own, so he decided to give her some aid in the form of her super power so that she could have a little help.

-”But I wish you the best of luck finding her.” Yeah...I refuse to believe that no one outside of Killian found that one specific line fishier than Ariel in her grotto.

-I’m very glad to know that Storybrooke is anti-wall! :D

-”I’m not worried about the wall. I’m worried about who made it.” I just love this line! XD

-I LOVE Regina’s outfit in Granny’s! Look, I’m a sucker for short sleeves and the vest part of it just seals the deal for me. This is a comfy cozy Regina! Also, Lana is ROCKING that ponytail!

-Regina, you have great taste in comics! Also, you’re kind of as subtle as a brick with your goals, but it works out really well! :D

-I love the slam down of the painting! Regina is 100% right. As someone who just gushed about that office, that painting completely messes with the colors and has got to go.

-”People like me?” “With magic.” I like how Kristoph wastes not even a second before ensuring Elsa that he doesn’t mean “people like me” in a bad way. He really gets his sister-in-law and knows that such talk has the potential to upset her deeply and as soon as he sees an inkling of that, he springs to action.

-Elsa and Killian also have a great dynamic here! XD

-”What are you going to do?” “Something drastic.” I think he was looking for something a TWINGE more specific, Regina! XD

-Okay, so I don’t often like to pick apart plot holes, but why wouldn’t Killian have Elsa secretly listen in on their convo and then tell Belle herself? Like, he promised Rumple “his” silence. He said fuck all about Elsa! XD

-You know, if magic can never be destroyed as Rumple claims, than when his own curse broke, did the darkness equilibrium that I’ve hoped for for so long just sweep the land?! Because I hope so.

-Any Given Sundae has really strange hours of operation! XD

-David, you may be “fine,” but your shirt needs an iron STAT!

Favorite Dynamic

Golden Hook! I’ve waited FAR too long to gush about this rivalry again and now I can!!! This episode is I think one of the bests for their rivalry and I mean that usually, Rumple has far more of a pull over Killian than vice versa because of his magic, but here, it really feels equal because Killian’s win comes from a sensible place. Killian’s been tracking down Rumple and his weaknesses for a century and thus, has an understanding of the man. And so, he’s able to have a real and tangible advantage in this moment, one well prepared. It’s a stupid, dangerous, and even kind of selfish, but it does work out this first time around and it’s fitting of Killian’s character. There’s an actual clash and seeing that confrontation is so engaging.

Writer

We’ve got one veteran writer and one newbie today, David Goodman and Jerome Schwartz, as they enter into Season 4. And damn, what a start! What we have here are several really solid narratives that are well paced and balanced. Nothing here felt like a character was being given too much or little focus. Additionally, the conflicts and dialogue make sense for the unique positions of our characters, making this episode feel quite organic.

Rating

Golden Apple. This is a fairly layered episode! Its main draw for me are the fantastic dynamics that we get to see fleshed out as well a theme that is powerful but not too overbearing. All in all, it comes together nicely to deliver a really satisfying episode!

Flip My Ship - The Home of All Things “Shippy Goodness”

Captain Swan - I really do like the exploration as to some of Emma’s distance in starting up hers and Killian’s relationship. By this point, romance has on three occasion spelled doom for whoever she’s been with and she’s nervous about Killian too. She had little control over the fates of Graham, Neal, and Walsh due to her lack of knowledge about the truth of her fairytale background and the danger that comes with it, but Killian’s different. She can make that choice and with all the facts, she’s nervous to make that step. But Killian gets to have a say in this as well. He’s survived so much of the fairytale dangers and his existence is proof of that. And that bit of information, alongside Killian’s just straight-up dedication to her and her growing feelings for him (Anyone else hear the hesitation in Emma’s voice when she pushes aside that she wants a man?), is what finally allows for her to be willing to give them a real chance. It’s no wonder that the ensuing kiss is one that enraptured the fandom and why the line beforehand stuck with us so hard. It’s an optimistic that follows this couple until the end of the series and really feels so equalizing for them. Emma and Killian are trying to help each other, but in different ways and this kiss doesn’t signal the end of that by any means, but that they’re going to change tactics so that they can help each other and be together. And that swell of music makes the moment so triumphant and beautiful.

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Thank you all for reading (If you do...honestly, I’m never sure, but if you do, I’m really grateful for you for doing so)!!! Shoutouts as always to the fine folks at @watchingfairytales and to my super amazing buddy @daensarah! Happy New Year!!!

Season 3 Total (29/230)

Writer Scores: Adam and Eddy: (9/60) Jane Espenson: (10/40) David Goodman and Jerome Schwartz: (10/50)

*Links to the rest of my rewatch will no longer be provided. They take posts with links outside of searches and I spend way too much time on these reviews to not give them that kind of exposure. Sorry for the inconvenience, but they still can be found on my page under Operation Rewatch.

[lyledebeast]

Guy, Marian, and Blaming the Victim

It’s that time of year again! When the leaves start to change colors, and you’re not sure if it’s the coming of fall (finally!) or drought, and you can almost feel the barest hint of cooless in the air if you go outside first thing in the morning.  And i start to think about two years ago when I saw the most egregious case of fridging I’ve ever seen on television.  Of course, I mean Marian’s death in Robin Hood, and yes, I’m still talking about that.  For old times sake.

It will be ten years in December since that episode aired.  At this point, people have made up their minds about how they feel about it.  It’s unlikely that anyone is going to change their minds now, but I’ve always been interested in how people arrive at their conclusions and how they view those who draw different ones.  Most of the people I’ve encountered in this fandom come down on one side or the other: either Marian goaded Guy until he snapped and stabbed her because it was the only way to make her stop OR he killed her because he’d rather have her dead than with Robin.

I think i’ts pretty clear that I come down on the side of the former, which many would say is just because I’m a Guy fan.  And I am, but I also think that’s the reading that’s best supported by the evidence.  Guy’s first reaction to her revelation that she’s going to marry Robin is disbelief.  And then she tells him again.  And again.  She mentions him killing her twice before he actually stabs her, and when he does? Guy is a trained assassin, as we’ve seen numerous times. He knows how to kill people efficiently.  He knows that you don’t leave your weapon in the person you want to kill.  Those things are expensive! He leaves his sword in Marian because he shocked by what he’s done.  He sees the result and immediately disowns the action.  This isn’t the behavior of a person who thought through his decision.  

And in the aftermath of the murder, he never once blames Marian, not even when he’s most in denial.  He outlandishly blames Robin and Vaisey, who aren’t even present when he stabs Marian, but that’s not so much blaming Marian for loving Robin as Robin for . . . existing? But he maintains a view of Marian as innocent and kind, as someone who “saw goodness where there was one.” Which tells me not only that he still loves her, but that he still can’t accept that she was actually manipulating his feelings for her the whole time, even after he saved her life.  How much more overwhelming must her confession of that have been when he first heard it?

This interpretation frames Guy’s action as a response to Marian’s actions, which seems to be the main point of difference between the two camps.  Those who read Guy as deciding to kill Marian because of her love for Robin often don’t have a lot to say about what she does.  And it isn’t because they don’t know.  They’ve watched this scene as many times as I have, maybe more in some cases.  They know that Marian does all of these things, but my understanding is that they don’t think it’s important.  The only thing that matters is Guy’s sword in Marian’s stomach.  Nothing that happened before then can justify that, so none of it bears discussion. Don’t put too much focus on Marian’s actions, because that way lies damnation.  That way lies victim blaming and misogyny.

I’m not here to dispute that blaming the victim is misogynistic, but reading the first interpretation of this scene in that light makes a couple of presumptions.  One is that gender informs the interpretation and the other is that there is only one victim in this scenario.  If a person reads Marian as failing in her role as a redeeming influence on Guy, as some do, that’s certainly sexist if not misogynistic, but it’s no more anti-woman to say that she has been manipulating Guy’s need for love than to say that Vaisey has been manipulating his need for a sense of place and identity.  All three of these characters engage in abusive behaviors; the fact that Marian is doing it for the people, King Richard, and Robin doesn’t actually stop her from being an abuser.

Reading characters and their actions is always subjective to an extent.  I can appreciate that many do not want to read Marian in such a negative light. It IS out of keeping with the righteous, compassionate side of her that she displays most often to the most people.  But choosing to read her and Guy as both victims as abusers is a valid reading too.  I agree that Guy’s violence and lack of self-control play a factor in Marian’s death, but so does her actively encouraging him to construct a vision of a future in which they could be together and then choosing this moment to shatter it. That doesn’t mean that her death at Guy’s hands is justified.  If “justify” means to prove something right or reasonable, nothing can do that for this scene.  It’s a tragedy, and that we can all agree on.  

[ripplestitchskein]

I always find the faux social justice implications of fandom concerns absolutely ridiculous.

Like “Oh you’re worried your ship will be broken up and a new love interest inserted because A. the female part of the couple left the show B. The creators have a history of blowing up ships for pointless drama and fridging female characters and C. There is no indication the female part of the couple will return for more than one episode and it’s a question that will definitely be on the GA’s mind considering it’s a show about fairytales and true love?”

You must hate women in leading/regular roles.

Like what?

On the one hand, yeah they shouldn’t take their nervous nelly concern to someone else’s inbox (under any circumstance, like what is that person supposed to do?) but on the other hand the reply kind of puts that same erroneous conclusion of motivation on EVERYONE who thinks that’s a concern and maybe posted it to their own space, or kept it in their head and are just innocently scrolling through their dash.

Which is a running theme with fandom. You can’t separate the two. If a blogger feels that way about some nervous anonymous person who is worried they feel that way about the people who kept it to themselves and are just trying to look at gifs of Killian Jones.

If it was just one person saying that, fine, but yet again it seems to be the current fandom bandwagon to jump on while this new information comes in. All people who have a concern over something that happens on many TV shows when one half of a couple leaves are suddenly anti-women?

I, for one, still think it’s a strong possibility that could happen. Or that they’ll make Killian into a drunken caricature of himself. Actually, it’s the very reason why I’m choosing not to watch at all until I see where they are going with this bullshit “reboot” (see: We don’t feel like writing anything new or paying seasoned actors so we’re just redoing season 1 with a few changed details and hiring some people on the cheap so we can keep collecting ad revenue). Also why when I saw the news my first thought was “Oh which of you ladies is KJ True Love Number 3?”

Not because I dislike women. Or because I assume their only function is to serve as a love interest for the male lead, but because I know what fucking show I watched for 6 years and who is in charge of it. Because I watched them pointlessly have the EQ makeout with Rumple for no reason. Because Mary Margaret sleeping with Whale was a running joke but David being married and potentially impregnating Abigail wasn’t. Because Maid Marian turned into Zelena having Robin’s baby was a thing.

Just a regular day on Tumblr I guess? I dunno, I just needed to vent