#anti dred priest

[mamuzzy]

What is considered child mistreatment in Mandalorian culture (legends)?

I was inspired by this post but I didn't want to ruin a mood with my AcKcHuYaLlY vibes so I made a separate post about it.

While I agree with a sentiment of Cuy'val Dar should have rioted seeing children being mistreated, given they are a very heavily family and child centered culture, I've just recently read a few quotes from Republic Commando which made me wonder...

what is considered child mistreatment in their culture?

Because training children to be soldiers are not one. It is a perfectly normal thing to do for them.

What you will read here about: -- Potential reasons why the Cuy'val Dar didn't refuse the job -- Relationship of a Mando parent and their child: How Munin Skirata adopted Kal and with it giving him a predetermined path of life -- Little detour to the topic of how modernday parents don't include children in the household chores -- Pav-Ti and Ahsoka -- Walon Vau and Dred Priest's approach -- Kal Skirata's approach of training -- Little about Mandos and Jedi -- Sorry (not really), people. I still love Kal. -- I won't tag this as anti/pro/critical fandom fuckery. Only a Sith deaIs in absolutes.

Rest is under the cut.

Why would Cuy'val Dar accept such assignment in the first place?

So why didn't they say no? 1. Loyalty and Respect for Jango Fett 2. In need of money 3. Needed a place to hide 4. It could be HONOUR: If a mando bounty hunter accepts a job, they won't back down from it. That's why they are the best. A mandalorian either completes the job or they die in the process (see: Hard Contact). 5. Child soldiers are nothing out of place.

But the latter is debatable, depending on which bounty hunter you ask. Kal was horrified when he was presented with the facts. Scene from Triple Zero, where Kal realizes what Jango is expecting of him:

Jango Fett indeed didn't tell them the whole truth. I'm pretty sure there would have been people who would have accept it anyway. But I'm also sure most of them were conned this way.

We even know Kal's reason of accepting the job.

He didn't have any outside ties anymore that required his physical presence, so at this point he could just accept a decade long assignment.

And when he met the Nulls, he gave himself a purpose out of this nightmare. Raising these children as Mandalorians.

But where this is come from? From Kal's own buir.

Another quote about how Munin adopted Kal.

Awfully practical people. But also, compassionate. Kal is guided by the same compassion as his buir.

Overprotected children of our modern age

Family centric and child centric views are really distorted today which is about overprotecting kids from literally everything. Even from basic household chores: a parent who is too tired and impatient for their child constantly making mistakes during learning a task, so they simply take it out from the child's hand and doing it instead, because teaching them comes with much more mess to clean up, therefor more work for the parent. Children won't learn that helping out around the house can be a quality time with the parent, because most parents don't consider being together with their children a quality time. This later leads to those awful fights between a teenager who never helps around the house on their own only when asked/ordered. Children are glorified exotic pets, one task from a bucket list or worst, investments. But part of the family? Less likely. Not unconditionally.

PAV-TI AND AHSOKA

If you think about Ahsoka's backstory in the Tales of the Jedi, her mother also brought her on the hunt and made her look when she skinned the animal. Teaching her that death is a part of life and even when they take resources from the nature, they should do it with respect. Pav-Ti was already teaching her to be a part of their small community.

I think Mando culture is the same: they involve their children in their profession from early age. Probably teaching your children how to kill for money is not exactly ethical by our earthling standards. Regardless, they do it together. Little mando'ade won't go to school, they spend their time with the family and learning skills they will need if they choose the same profession and lifestyle as their parents.

PRACTICES OF VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE CUY'VAL DAR

So that's why I think that even if the members of the Cuy'Val Dar had seconds thoughts, training child soldiers are nothing out of ordinary. I can't speak for the remaining non-mando trainers what was in their mind.

But when Dred Priest and Isabeth Beau started their own little figthing rings in the guise of "preserving the old ways", it was really considered fucky even among the other mando trainers Death Watch couple-goals: torture children together <3. Dred Priest despised the clone cadets and they actually died under his care and this is one of the reason why Mij Gilamar killed Priest later in the books.

Walon Vau wasn't introduced to mando values until he ran away from home as an adult, but his abusive upbringing shaped his worldview on how he trained the cadets. Strict codes and harsh punishments. He had his regrets of it later.

From O66, Walon Vau to Kal Skirata

Love has many shapes. Vau wanted them to survive because he loved them. But loving them and treating them good/bad is not the same.

We know about Kal that he taught by experience. He never gave an assignment to his cadets before he first showed them how to do it.

And then we have these notorious parts of him regarding the clones which can be interpreted so many ways but often used as the evidence as child abuse:

And this one also:

(sometimes I throw my brain outtaaa windoooOOooOooOow what people call abusive these days...)

What is my stance about this particular passage? I think he didn't abuse the clones. He wanted them to survive too. He wanted to make it easier for them which was really hard considering the circumstances. He wanted to be a father to the clones like Munin was to him.

We saw the differences between Omega Squad and Delta Squad. The Delta first left Walon Vau behind because they were ordered to do so. Delta left Sev behind because they were ordered to do so. As far as we know, no one deserted from the Empire from Vau's commandos. They remained loyal to the Republic/Empire. Darman could have been with his son and with Clan Skirata but he choose to remain with Niner in the Empire. He remained loyal not the empire, not even Kal Skirata but his brother. Just like Kal thaught them.

What makes them different from the jedi and at the same time so similiar?

The Jedi seek out force sensitive children to teach them how to control this power within them and make sure, they won't use it for personal gain. And later, when they grow up, they will do the same.

Mandos take pity over war orphans (usually that's the case), take them into their clan of soldiers and they teach them a profession and one day, they can do the same.

Both faction are doing it, guided by the same principle: COMPASSION.

Jedi are practicing compassion toward every living, while Mando compassion is just much more personal on the individual level.

Dialogue from Imperial Commando between Arligan Zey and Kal Skirata. I think this baby stealing prejudice comes from that force sensitive children are separated from their parents and all this goes against the family centric view of the mandalorians where family is above all and the children are only safe with their families.

In conclusion...

My personal take after this little research that Mando trainers didn't abuse children, not in their own mandalorian standards. I say this because of Dred Priest who was condemned for actually hurting his cadets, forcing them to fight against each other, and lots of them actually died.

After the failed experiences with the Nulls, the kaminoans and trainers didn't expose the clones to live rounds and bombs until so much later, that's why the commandos and Alpha-class ARCs feel much more balanced in their phyche.

I think Walon Vau abused his cadets but he justified it with love.

Kal made them to do horrible exercises and said a lot of shitty things to the clones (though I think it's kind of like when you call your cat a whore out of affection) but overall he tried to make their suffering bearable.

[ollovae3]

New OCs just dropped!!! Catch my new Jedisona kissing the hell out of my Fav Boi Thorn, and Onosa'i punching the FUCK out of Dred Priest?? 😌💖 (She also kisses Alpha-17 but rn she's zoned in on fucking up Dred's face with @nibeul 's Nur'uu.)

[starwarsfic]

I.33

Originally posted August 23, 2020

Summary: Obi-Wan gets a tour and meets some people he would have really rather left in the past.

Details: Past Pre/Obi-Wan, past Satine/Obi-Wan, pre Jango/Obi-Wan. Mandalore Mission AU. Kamino AU.

xxxxxx

Obi-Wan gave a tight smile at Fett as he was led deeper into the facility. He shouldn't have bothered asking after the "trainers" when they were mentioned, but Fett didn't know he knew Mando'a and, well, Obi-Wan was curious about who could possibly want to be called "Cuy'val Dar."

"Ben'ika?" The shout caught him off guard, pulling him out of his attempts to figure out what was going on, and cold dread washed over him.

"...Reau, how many times do I have to ask you not to call me that?"

And it was worse, it wasn't just Reau--right behind her was Priest. Two of the last people he expected to meet in Jango Fett's company. And two of the last people he ever wanted to see.

She flung herself at him and he, knowing that pulling out his lightsaber and stabbing her would probably be a bad idea, tried to side step while not hitting into Fett, who had frozen in confusion.

"Su cuy'gar, Ben'ika!" she cried when she finally caught him, forcing him into an awkward, too-tight hug as his arms continued to hang at his sides.

Over her shoulder, he and Priest glared at each other.

"Su briikase ti ibic aruetii?" Priest only sounded half as outraged as Obi-Wan was expecting.

"Nu'aruetii, ratiin jetii, or'diniise nakar'mir."

He thought he heard Fett let out of choking noise and thought the other probably wished he was hidden behind his buy'ce. They both knew by now he was the bounty hunter that Obi-Wan had come here chasing.

"Nu draar! Gar mandokarla, gar ru'go'naasir ba'jetiise." Reau's smile became flirtatious and he inwardly groaned. "Mesh'la ret'gar Kyr'tsad."

"Ret'ni mesh'la nari kyr'amur Kyr'tsad."

"You three know each other?" One of the other people--trainers, Cuy'val Dar, Obi-Wan realized, was watching them in interest.

"I spied on Death Watch while on a mission in Mandalore," Obi-Wan supplied, Priest glaring and Reau pouting.

"You're fluent in Mando'a?" Fett asked from beside him, keeping his face blank in a way that was far more severe than a glare could be.

"...'Lek," he confirmed, watching Fett's jaw clench.

"Ben'ika spent a lot of time around us," Reau provided, incapable of ever just letting things go. "If it weren't for that dar'manda Kryze we could have had him."

Obi-Wan took a deep, settling breath. "I assure you, Satine was not the deciding factor in my joining Death Watch or not."

"Yeah, because it's not like you were fucking Vizsla or anything, when you weren't fucking that New Mandalorian hut'uun," Priest muttered and the tension around them increased yet again.

Pushing Reau away, resisting the urge to stutter at the accusation and instead reminding himself he was not a seventeen year old boy, but a Jedi Knight on his way to Mastery. He would not like Dred Priest of all people make him lose his composure.

"I had sex with him once and it was purely for informational purposes."

He glanced at Fett, not surprised to find his face still largely emotionless. It was Fett who had brought Death Watch members here, presumably, and so he couldn't be incapable of dealing with their eccentricities.

"He was already talking about riduurok," Reau sighed, as if she found the whole thing romantic.

"Vizsla has never been capable of approaching a situation with the right amount of energy. I smiled at him a few times while spying on him for the New Mandalorians and he decided it was love. If I didn't need that information so badly, I would have gutted him in his bunk and left him for dead."

Fett snorted and Obi-Wan, out of the corner of his eyes, caught him making hand motions at some of the other trainers. Thankfully, it was to get rid of Priest and Reau, and Obi-Wan could let himself relax (as much as he could, in the seat of what he was fairly sure was an anti-Jedi conspiracy).

"Vizsla and Kryze?" was, for some reason, the first thing Fett thought to ask.

Obi-Wan's eyes flicked down to the sleeves that Fett had rolled up in his apartment when they were first speaking and licked his lips. "Perhaps the Haat'ade should have some representation? For comparison purposes?"

xxxxxx

A/N: Based on me wondering what it would be like if Obi-Wan had met any of the Cuy'val Dar back when he was on his Mandalore mission.

Dedicated to TheAceApples

Mando'a: (let's pretend like it's fluent lol)

Su cuy'gar - hello ("you're still alive) Su briikase ti ibic aruetii - still happy with this traitor Nu'aruetii, ratiin jetii, or'diniise nakar'mir - not a traitor, always a Jedi, you fools didn't notice. buy'ce - distinctive Mandalorian helmet with the T-shaped visor Nu draar! Gar mandokarla, gar ru'go'naasir ba'jetiise. - No way! You have the right stuff to be a Mandalorian, you were wasted on the Jedi. Mesh'la ret'gar Kyr'tsadii. - You would be beautiful in Death Watch Ret'ni mesh'la nari kyr'amur Kyr'tsad - Maybe I would be beautiful killing Death Watch 'Lek - yeah dar'manda - a disgraced Mandalorian/no longer Mandalorian hut'uun - coward riduurok - marriage

[mamuzzy]

With a comment like this I get the feeling the people wearing anti-kal skirata labels skipped every paragraphs from the books that included his name, but also didn't took the time to actually read my post.

You just saw the name Kal, got the red rage filter on and went on

with the usual catchphrases.

First of all, redemption starts in the head. It's irrevelant if you, the reader, know that is going into the right or wrong way. If the character knows he is on a better path than he was before, the redemption already started. Did he actually gets it by his own meaning of redemption? I think not. Though they find the cure for accelerated aging, ultimately the Kyrimorut project will fall.

But Kal not changing his ways or at least mindset? Not thriving for better? Have you even read imperial commando? There are the very consequences of his loud anti-jedi sentiments, because as soon as he consider keeping the Jedi alive instead of just killing them off, everyone is looking at him like "WTF bro do you have fever?"

Have you even read the passage when he claims that NOW he understands how did Ilippi felt when she was left alone all those time?

Kal is that old 60 years old guy who won't have progressive thoughts until he is directly affected by them.

Kal: All jedi are bad. >:((( Bardan, Etain, Scout, Kina Ha, Zey, Djinn Altis: *exist* Kal: Ok, maybe not all of them. Kal: All kaminoans are bad >:((( Kina Ha: *exists* Kal: Ok, maybe not all of them. Kal: Relationships are bad for health and could only break the heart. >:(((( Ny: *exists* Kal: *brainfreezing babbling mess of a little boy* See what I mean? If everything, he is the most realistic representation of a traditionalist man who's yelling out loud their principles but as soon as someone from the enemy side appears and proves his prejudices wrong, he is constantly challenged. Battle between principles and what is actually before his eyes.

I don't think I've made any excuses for him but let me point out that people often forget that Kal himself was a childsoldier as well from age 7, and never seen anything outside from that life. If the war hadn't arrived on Sucaris and his parents weren't killed (age 6), he would probably be just a guy from the neighbourhood with a factory job.

And if Kal was a child abuser then every other Cuy'val Dar member were one too starting from Jango Fett to Walon Vau, Mij Gilamar, Rav Bralor and everyone whom he invited, mandalorian or not. Interestingly I never see Walon Vau or Dred Priest-critical signaling everywhere and they were actually known for making the training more of living hell than already it was.

But if you were able to let some steam out, I'm glad to be of assistance of providing a venting space.

EDIT: I wanted to add this as well because it opened the knife in my pocket for personal reasons.

YOU:

He was gone for most of the time and I understand that from military families, that’s a real problem, but he doesn’t care about his family.

Please change military family for a chef with a family, a doctor with a family, or a truckdriver with a family and see how YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. Do you think these people are avoiding their family, or are away for a long time for funsies or because they don't love them?

This blurb was born from a conversation where we talked about how no one is there for Kal to counter, oppose or punish him for his decisions and deeds therefore the author favors him over the characters who are critical about him.

Mind that, this wasn't meant to go after anyone, just my observations about the character I deeply love.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY OPPOSING KAL SKIRATA part 1.

HIS FAMILY FROM THE PAST

If we see this as some dramaturgy aspect, Kal already got his punishment and judgement from others, but that happened in the past. By the time we see Kal in Triple Zero, he is already at his redemption arc!

Long rambling about Kal Skirata under the cut.

Kal lives a life that is not suitable for a family that requires all parents to be at home, and from the narrative, it's really similiar to the military families in real life.

When they say, he was never home, usually they don't mean that the children and the wife never saw him. It's more likely, he was at home for months or two and then went after a bounty. Difference is, in peace time you usually know when will your soldier husband return, but as a bounty hunter, I think it's unpredictable when you will see your family again, or in family pov, when you will see your husband or father again. There was a sentence I think, where it was stated Ilippi at first enjoyed being a wife of a famous bounty hunter and it was pure love at first (you know: sounds cool in theory, but actually having a soldier-boyfriend/girlfriend demand sacrifices), and probably the money was good (couples and families with children often staying together for financial safety eventhough they both know it's not working).

The two oldest boy had time to understand what is happening between Kal and Ilippi. The oldest boy was 8 when their divorce happened - that's the time when Kal wanted to take the boy with him to hunt.

Thinking about a lot about Ruu, and I think she already raised in an environment where she barely seen her father but was too young for understand how that affected the rest of the family.

Now if the boys already had hate for their father, it was because of the mother's influence. I think this is a perfectly valid women representation. Not the one, people want to see in fiction, but valid and real. Also real, because Ilippy decided this life is not for her and her children. Kal and Ilippy had cultural clashing many times. She realized that she doesn't want this for herself and left. And this is something people in bad relationship usually doesn't have the strenght to do it. Ilippy is fucking valid.

But I also understand Kal too, because he had an expectation how he will raise his children but chose the bad partner for it. Their relationship never was about "them", there was either Kal's way or Ilippy's way. Their expectations never matched. Yet Kal never ceased to love his wife or biological children, he financially supported them until his sons disowned him as well because he couldn't be there for them when Ilippy died (I think it happened when Kal was already on Kamino).

Kal got his punishment by being disowned by his wife and later the boys too. There was a scene in the 501, where he thought about his part marriage and started to understand her ex-wife better. Kal tries to redeem himself by giving everything to his boys he couldn't give to his biological family. He really sucks at it, he makes dire mistakes, but he is trying.

(To be continued with more blurb about the relationship between Kal Skirata and Walon Vau, Nulls and the Commandos he raised. And Darman himself. Maybe Ny too.)

[mysticaltora8276]

Here’s the thing. He doesn’t change. He only has one internal “aha” moment and really that’s it. Does he change his attitude? Oh heck no.

Is anti-Jedi sentiments? Oh good he only has a few exceptions rule. He still blames the genocide of the Jedi on the Jedi order. He still is fine with the Jedi being murdered. His sons literally say that they will put a bolt into the head of the Jedi and they don’t care. This means that he they reflect what he has taught them and he has no problems with them holding this belief and does not challenge them in the slightest. The only reason he makes exceptions for those people is one his hand was forced in the case of one. Two Scout for some reason looks like the person that he psychologically abused with his misogynistic views which you conveniently leave out. And as for the random Kaminoan? That’s only because she’s useful that’s it. He has no sympathy for her whatsoever. Never mind the fact that this narrative makes no sense whatsoever. Consider Kamino was isolated for the Republic. It was only recently rediscovered. You’d think that the Jedi would remember that they have one of the species of the cloners with them. They don’t because she makes no sense and the author just basically pulled her out of her butt. Not to mention that she doesn’t look all that noble when you find out that all she did was just meditate and watch TV while millions of people died around her. Her being a “good Kaminoan.” It’s never even really brought up on the once because may I remind you his kids murder and skinned a Kaminoan and it is not treated as a horrifying action worthy of condemnation but just as a “justified.” He never warns Kina about it and it’s just…ignored like the murder and butchering of a being is okay as long as it’s “justified.” Rampart is laughing in the background by the way.

And Scout? Oh the author just murders her character. The girl who wanted to be a Jedi who loved being a Jedi is suddenly basically a carbon copy of someone that’s supposed main character, psychologically abused with a misogynistic that nearly got her killed and murdered a bunch of Padawans for. That does not sound like someone who “suddenly cares about Jedi.” He never ever addresses the fact that he killed a bunch of children who trying to escape a genocide. The narrative never brings it up and it treats it as a “oh it’s totally justified because an idiot jumped in the middle of someone, trying to protect himself from being killed off in a genocide to save a willing(as far as Traviss is concerned) participant of genocide. That’s why I say that the whole oh he learned better than to be anti Jedi falls flat on its face. Because the narrative hates the Jedi and we love you too you know, bash the Jedi and hate them too. Djinn is literally loud as “a good Jedi.“ Why? Because he doesn’t follow the main order. He’s a splinter group in that continuity. So basically the main order who is the focus of the series are the bad guys according to her and evil but this split order that does what she wants them to do is OK, yeah I’m calling BS.

I mean looks at survivor of the extermination of his people and says “stay out of politics this is your fault.” He’s actually fine with Palpatine being a Sith despite the fact that Sith are genocidal murders. He is fine with a fascist government popping up if it “leaves him alone.“

His internal revelation about his wife. It’s only one time so he keeps doing what he does best. Be misogynistic twit and lead a cult.

As for his girlfriend. She bends over backwards and praises him for doing the “oh I have Black friends so I can’t be racist” sort of mentality. Because he doesn’t “stop the cycle” as she put it. He just pulls the whole “well I have Black friends so I can’t possibly be racist, even though I still scribe to racist ideals.“

As for the other two guys you mentioned. First of all for Dred Priest the narrative gets critical about him so we’re not supposed to idolize him. And there are plenty of people who drag him through the coals along with Vau although with Vau it’s softened despite the fact that’s he’s still an abuser. Which is funny considering that Skirata just emotionally manipulates people and that’s treated as the “good guy”.

As for the other examples. First of all chefs could have involved time with their families. So can doctors. They can make time for their families. It’s difficult, but they can make their time for their families, and there are some who do stay away from their families because they care more about their career or whatever than them. Others stay away from their families for long time because they are doing something that they love and want to help out their family. But the thing of it is is that Military families are the ones that the author wants you to think of. Doctors and chefs more often than not are not gone from their families months at a time.

And you know what? It’s a crappy version of a military family because she’s too busy glorifying the Mandalorians, who she says are “egalitarian and not misogynistic“. Yet she makes it misogynistic as the whole get out. And she makes the society way more problematic than it should be basically saying that they’re OK with dragging eight year-old children to a war zone and then wonder why they are messed up and then has a character to complain about how certain other characters like the clones aren’t “a normal childhood” Well gee, Skirata was perfectly fine with traumatizing the children that he had with a woman and did the same thing with the clones. Let me tell you something I did read every paragraph you said, and your interpretations aren’t supported by the narrative that the book pushes forward. It kind of falls flat when you actually read the books. And I get it you like this character and that is fine. I have problematic characters that I like even though they’re twits and not very nice people but the thing of it is is that your interpretation of character is simply your own. I’m going with what the narrative itself pushes forward.

Edit: if you want proof of how much he hates Jedi just read the Star Wars clone wars series that she had to do that book. It’s quite abundantly clear that she hates the Jedi and everything she pushed in Republic Commando are things she wants to glorify is her view. Also it shows she’s racist, considering the people in her second book she did are literally the equivalent of “space Africa.” Not to mention the massacre of Ahsoka, Pallaeon and Rex’s characters.

This blurb was born from a conversation where we talked about how no one is there for Kal to counter, oppose or punish him for his decisions and deeds therefore the author favors him over the characters who are critical about him.

Mind that, this wasn't meant to go after anyone, just my observations about the character I deeply love.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY OPPOSING KAL SKIRATA part 1.

HIS FAMILY FROM THE PAST

If we see this as some dramaturgy aspect, Kal already got his punishment and judgement from others, but that happened in the past. By the time we see Kal in Triple Zero, he is already at his redemption arc!

Long rambling about Kal Skirata under the cut.

Kal lives a life that is not suitable for a family that requires all parents to be at home, and from the narrative, it's really similiar to the military families in real life.

When they say, he was never home, usually they don't mean that the children and the wife never saw him. It's more likely, he was at home for months or two and then went after a bounty. Difference is, in peace time you usually know when will your soldier husband return, but as a bounty hunter, I think it's unpredictable when you will see your family again, or in family pov, when you will see your husband or father again. There was a sentence I think, where it was stated Ilippi at first enjoyed being a wife of a famous bounty hunter and it was pure love at first (you know: sounds cool in theory, but actually having a soldier-boyfriend/girlfriend demand sacrifices), and probably the money was good (couples and families with children often staying together for financial safety eventhough they both know it's not working).

The two oldest boy had time to understand what is happening between Kal and Ilippi. The oldest boy was 8 when their divorce happened - that's the time when Kal wanted to take the boy with him to hunt.

Thinking about a lot about Ruu, and I think she already raised in an environment where she barely seen her father but was too young for understand how that affected the rest of the family.

Now if the boys already had hate for their father, it was because of the mother's influence. I think this is a perfectly valid women representation. Not the one, people want to see in fiction, but valid and real. Also real, because Ilippy decided this life is not for her and her children. Kal and Ilippy had cultural clashing many times. She realized that she doesn't want this for herself and left. And this is something people in bad relationship usually doesn't have the strenght to do it. Ilippy is fucking valid.

But I also understand Kal too, because he had an expectation how he will raise his children but chose the bad partner for it. Their relationship never was about "them", there was either Kal's way or Ilippy's way. Their expectations never matched. Yet Kal never ceased to love his wife or biological children, he financially supported them until his sons disowned him as well because he couldn't be there for them when Ilippy died (I think it happened when Kal was already on Kamino).

Kal got his punishment by being disowned by his wife and later the boys too. There was a scene in the 501, where he thought about his part marriage and started to understand her ex-wife better. Kal tries to redeem himself by giving everything to his boys he couldn't give to his biological family. He really sucks at it, he makes dire mistakes, but he is trying.

(To be continued with more blurb about the relationship between Kal Skirata and Walon Vau, Nulls and the Commandos he raised. And Darman himself. Maybe Ny too.)