#anti Riley Finn

[sparklyfaerie]

Xander's assertion that Riley is a Once In A Lifetime™ kinda guy is objectively laughable. Not only because Riley is literally a conformist who allows his opinions to be dictated to him (first by the Initiative, then by Buffy and later the army), but because Buffy's two other love interests are literally the Once In A Lifetime™ variety.

Angel was (at the time) the only vampire in recorded history with a soul.

Spike was the only vampire in recorded history who chose to get a soul.

And you're telling me that the special one is some mysoginistic, chauvanistic conformist? Please, Xander, project harder. Your vicariousness is showing.

[slayer-pride-parade]

If I had a nickel for every time a guy on Buffy metaphorically cheated on his girlfriend via supernatural means and then killed the woman he cheated with and also left town immediately after his girlfriend found out about the metaphorical cheating I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

[eyothings]

So out of nowhere this december, i've been hit with nostalgia and decided it was time to rewatch Buffy The Vampire Slayer's entire series after the last time it aired on tv, meaning 20 years ago.

Not only it shaped a whole side of my lil sister personality, it is also the favorite show of one of my cousin and closest friends.

And considering the state i'm in after finishing season 7, i know for sure Spike is the origin of my utter love for anti-heros, England and ennemies-to-lovers trope.

He is one of those characters that stay with you forever.

C'mon look at him, LO_OK.

I had very few memories of the show, only some big moments: Angel leaving for a spinoff, Spike ♥, Dark Willow, Spuffy - Basically I remembered almost nothing.

The first season set the tone for me, i forgot the serie was very funny, and what worked right away was the simple fact that they didn't act seriously either, the actors looked like they just had fun. On top of that, even if i already knew that, the show is very feminist and advanced for its time.

I also forgot how much of an asshole Xander is. lol

The worst season for me is clearly season 4, and between you and me, and me and you, it's unsurprisingly because of Riley and the army.

The best season is obviously season 6, and not only for Spike and Spuffy but for Buffy's whole personality.

I have so much to say about the show really, but I'll stay focused and talk about the two ships: Bangel and Spuffy (and a bit of Riley). Note that it is purely my point of view, based on what i like to see and read in fiction and how I perceive the characters, there is clearly a big difference compared to real life. As well as any "bitch" mentioned here is only affectionate. And if you're crazy enough to read the entire post, I apologise in advance for the many mistakes in my writing, as English is not my mother tongue.

The moment i'm writing this VERY long ass post, I've only just started to watch Angel the series for the first time and I've only seen the first season, so my thoughts on him may change in the future, but I don't think my pov on the ships will. I am also aware of some events in seasons 8 to 12 (comics).

• Bangel:

To be honest I liked their love story more when Angel was Angelus.

First, them falling in love never really clicked, I guess they played the love at first sight trope, but she was 15 and he was 200; at that age, any man who was pretty enough and a bit dark would've worked for her. (I won't talk about a 26 y/o man falling in love with a 15 y/o teenager, the man is from 1727, at this point it's not even the same culture okay??)

I thought I'd still give it a chance and root for them, even if I was fully aware of him leaving and Spike would be the new romance (I FORGOT THE WASTE OF TIME WITH RILEY), because they actually talked about all the issues, they knew something was off with their love story but they couldn't stop.

I have not much to say about the nature of their love, it was a cute romance at best, but the more they went further the cringier it'd get, I still have trauma about their kiss noises, no kidding.

They slept together and Angel becomes Angelus, which is supposed to be sad and add some angst, but Angelus was so charismatic, I didn't care about Angel anymore.

And what can I say? I think the soul vs no soul aspect played kinda badly, they all said that Angelus was incapable of love since he had no soul, but we had the concrete proof that love was possible thanks to Spike & Drusilla to begin with ??

I was hoping that, since they sold us their love as super powerful and intense, Angelus would end up falling in love with Buffy, especially after the episode in which both are possessed by ghosts in season 2 episode 19 - I Only Have Eyes for You - which is my favorite moment between them:

but NO, Angelus cannot love, and only Angel can:

It's either we get the flavored guy but no romance or the bland one with a half romance.

Talk about the greatest love story there.

And the whole season 3 is Angel and Buffy having a teen romance:

"Let's just hold hands and kiss but nothing else"

Of course I guess this kind of love story is possible, but it is made clear they both feel the sexual tension each time they kiss, they even dream of doing it. So the only thing that comes of it, is frustrating feelings, for Buffy, for Angel and for us watching them going nowhere.

The hottest moment they have is when Angel bites her to survive.

Surely for a love story that is sold to be so grand, I expected Angel to find a cure for the curse? And fight for his love or something?

♫ Nope, he just leaves. ♫

♫ Bitch talks about fighting for what is worth and bails out at the first difficulty. ♫

i cannot even blame Joyce here, she made the right call, for real. Mother knows best, but he had the chance to prove her wrong.

And in parallel to that we are introduced to Spike, a vampire with no soul who is one hundred times worth Angel, just by existing.

And there is so much to say, whether or not Spuffy was intended, whether or not Angel is supposed to be the love of Buffy's life; After reaching seven seasons, I can guarantee without any hesitation, that Spike is the one, there is no contest.

I can't, for the life of me, believe one second that Joss Whedon and the rest of the team wrote the enemies to lovers story of the last two decades without doing it on purpose? They were so much into Angel, to realize what was happening?

They sold me Angel and Buffy being the "forever love", and, in a way, they are, but only because they cling to the "what could've been".

Of course they will always be attracted to each other until they really try. They'll always idealise their love story and fill the plotholes with their imagination. But it is dramatically bound to end in disaster.

And no, Buffy, I cannot take you seriously when you say "I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life" ; You were a teenager, it is normal to feel more deeply when you're 16, but that doesn't mean anything, and you know it too well.

Angel left her broken, unable to trust anyone, unable to trust herself and alone: If the love of her life doesn't want to be with her, then who will? (♫ We have an idea ♫ )

Soul or not, he has been a coward, with no intent to get to know Buffy, her family, her friends. He decided what was best for her without asking her.

All he does after that, is coming back into Buffy's life at the worst moments to be jealous.

♫ He is that toxic boyfriend who comes back with puppy eyes each time you try to move on. ♫

Every time he appears in an episode it's to disappoint even more: I was rooting for him, I even missed him A LOT in season 4 !

And, sure, meanwhile, the dance between Spike and Buffy was already ongoing since season 2, but we really didn't have any concrete scenes between them that could seal the ship for good (them under Willow's spell in season 4 doesn't count). So the best option at that moment was the hope for Angel to come back.

Buffy never really had the chance to move on from Angel because of Riley and his insecurities, but also because Angel cannot seem to move on, while moving on at the same time ? ! ? ♫ Bitch has a child ♫

The moment Angel left the show, it should have been for good. (Note aside, I'm still having a hard time believing the character had his own spinoff because of his popularity, when we barely saw him hanging around in the first 3 seasons, wouldn't have it been simpler for him to stay and have more scenes, like Spike?) • Riley & Buffy (Briley??)

And so Angel never came back, and we got Riley instead. He was the perfect choice to make the bridge between Bangel and Spuffy. She needed to experience a "normal" romance, with a "normal guy" to know what it's like and to understand what she really wants, but one season and a half was way too much. ♫ I ended up googling " WHEN is Riley LEAVING? "♫ The moment Buffy said she held back her strength when training with him, was enough to see what was coming.

Riley was nothing else than just an army guy under steroids who couldn't even handle his girlfriend being stronger than him.

Him blaming Buffy for not really being around when her mother was dying was the cherry on top of the loser's behavior.

Buffy needed someone with whom she could be 100% herself, an equal, and Riley knew he wasn't half of that; so he made her pay? By cheating on her and leaving? Then coming back a year later to brag about his wedding? Lmao give me a break Riloser.

So now Buffy is alone AGAIN, both men she thought she loved, left without looking back. ♫ Over my shouuulder ♫

And from those two relationships, we can already see what she needs in a romance:

- An emotionally available man - That can be there for her without pushing her - Someone who doesn't flee the second he encounters the smallest difficulty - A man strong enough for her to unleash the full force without being afraid of hurting him ♫ yes i'm talking about sex ♫ - Someone who understands her role as the slayer and her crazy life - Someone selfless capable of protecting her family and friends - Someone she can trust.

♫ And now, ladies and gentlemen, lets welcome ♫

• Spuffy:

Ok first a bit of context here: I disagree about people criticizing Buffy season 6 Lets just understand whats going on: Bitch sacrifices herself to save the world and her sister; at that moment, she feels peace for the first time in her life, for the first time she is not afraid to die and fulfill her destiny by choice. She has an heroic death, ends up resting in paradise...

♫ Then her friends who can't handle to live without her, decide to bring her back to life. ♫

Not only she comes back to life in her fucking coffin, she also: - Has to crawl to the surface (almost dying stupidly) - Has to act as if nothing happened - Has to be the slayer again - Cannot even go back to university - Has even less prospect for a normal life - She is poor - She needs to find money (ends up working in a fast food) - Has to thanks her friends for bringing her back to the life she never wanted - Is being blamed for not really being around.

♫ I WOULD HAVE BEEN SO FUCKING PISSED YOU CANNOT EVEN IMAGINE ♫

So what? She comes back, feels different, depressed, alone AGAIN and figuratively chained to a life she still doesn't want, and the only person who does understand what she is going through is Spike. Spike who has been here for her family and friends the whole time she was dead, meaning, he did it because he wanted to, because he felt genuine pleasure in hanging out with them while keeping his promise to protect Dawn.

He could have left, but never did, even though his love was one-sided, he loved her so much he stayed.

♫ Death couldn't do them apart ♫

He has been a father figure for Dawn, but not only that, Spike was also the only vampire Joyce liked and trusted, a presence she didn't mind in her home without Buffy around.

And Spike did love Joyce very much ♥

And I have so much to say about Spike, he is that multi-flavored character with so many layers, who stays interesting with or without a soul. He is a slayer's killer, seen as one of the most dangerous vampires, that anyone should be scared to be around, he has so much confidence in himself, he doesn't even mind being so freaking pathetic when it comes to love.

He is not even afraid nor ashamed to show his affection, to be vulnerable, to be open about it, and most of it, he just embraces it without a care of the outcome, he is just living by the day, knowing perfectly that everything could stop at any moment. Though, that being said, i'm still well aware Spike has also MANY flaws, all he does is mainly driven by love but it is still extreme and twisted due to his soulless condition. I really don't know where to start, because i feel like Buffy and Spike's destinies are intertwined - They are a mirror to each other. Buffy's behavior has anything to do with Spike, as Spike's behavior has anything to do with Buffy - it is really like watching a dance.

Spike allows her to embrace and explore the darkest part of herself - She was always the perfect girl everyone expected her to be.

She needed to do good, to BE good, but what if she, for once, chose the other side? Of course she never went as far as Faith did, but she allowed herself to fall into a forbidden romance, and to go against everyone's expectations, because she only felt something when she was with him. And i loved this part of her, because to me, she finally has flaws! I mean, she always had some but not to that extent. And maybe, maybe being like this, was a way for her to never fall completely into the darkness nor into Spike's influence.

Maybe she was in an inner battle between good and bad.

Maybe it was an unconscious way to either push him away, or test him to see if he will ever leave her. Abusive or not towards Spike, let's not forget that he is still William the bloody, and the only thing that stops him from killing anyone is the chip in his brain. We're still talking about the guy who would have easily killed Willow if he had the chance, the one Buffy wouldn't trust at all without that said chip.

Even though Spike has done TREMENDOUS good deeds with the scoobies, he is still a slave to his primary emotions.

Don't get me wrong, this is why i love Spike SO MUCH, his duality as a soulless vampire is everything. The man can talk to you about his favorite romantic show and a minute later kill someone in cold blood and find a great pleasure in both.

♫ Anyway ♫

Above all things, they are in love, and this love is extremely intense, deep, powerful, unbearable and terrible.

Thanks to Tara, Buffy realizes she did not come back as any different as before she died and realizes the horrors she has committed to Spike by treating him like a monster he never trully was.

Buffy ends up admitting her wrongs and grows out of her darkness and chooses to be good and to end her relationship with Spike. And she is glowing and glimming, and she's not his anymore.

Which leads Spike to end up doing something awful.

And what does he do after that??

He leaves the city...

♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ TO FIX HIMSELF ♫ ♫ ♫

Ladies and Gentlemen, we are in the year 2002, and yes you read me well:

THE BAD GUY GOES TO FIX HIMSELF TO BE WORTHY OF THE GIRL

♫ William the bloody risked his fucking life in a trial to get back his soul ♫

She doesn't fix him, he does it on his own because he knows something must be done to repair his wrongs, that his love needs to be purified of his monstrous side to be a better man and stand at her side.

And even though she doesn't know that, she is still looking for him, even after what he has done, she is always drawn to him, she always wants to be around him.

Then she learns he got his spark back for her and she does everything in her power to keep him by her side.

Because now it is time for Spike to embrace the brightest part of himself thanks to Buffy.

I love them so much, especially in season 7 because they don't even have to act romantically to show how deep their love is for each other. How simple it has become, how instinctive their complicity is. They know how to complement each other, it is almost symbiotic.

They are clearly not ready to be together again until they really sort things out but Spike has seen the best and the worst parts of her, and is still hers entirely, and will always be.

As much as Buffy has seen the best and worst parts of him, and she still trusts and loves him to the point of asking the initiative to remove the chip in his brain. ♫ On top of desperately not wanting him to die ♫ Also, without knowing it yet, she is entirely his and will always be.

Buffy sees Spike’s worth, and Spike sees Buffy’s, even when neither of them can see their own.

They lift each other up, and become an unbreakable force, to the point that no one can split them.

And this is one of my favorite parts of Spuffy, in season 7:

Before, she would never have let Spike kill a human, not even out of revenge. But now, she’s willing to let his shadow take over if it means keeping him alive, just as he learns to hold it back. To me, episode 17 - Lies My Parents Told Me - marks how far their connection has grown: Buffy running as fast as she can to save Spike Spike's past with his mother, helping him make peace with some of it, as part of his ongoing redemption arc ♫ it broke my heart ♫ Spike coming back to his senses to beat the shit out of Robin, and giving him a last chance Buffy telling Robin she'll let Spike kill him next time he even tries to harm Spike Buffy choosing Spike over Giles Buffy choosing Spike over the "common sense" Buffy choosing love over her duty (even if she pretends otherwise) ♫ Buffy, you cannot fool Spike, but you cannot fool us either! ♫

And i love this parallel with the end of season 2 when she had to choose duty over love and kill Angel. This is Buffy allowing herself to be a bit more selfish while Spike is allowing himself to be a bit more selfless.

And then in the middle of the biggest battle of her life, she is overthrown over shitty excuses ♫ i have a LOT to say about the Scoobies but that post is insanely long to add some salt ♫ and who is the one that still has her back? Spike. Spike has always been unconditionally here for her and never let her down, which even the Scoobies didn't always do.

Spike is the one who delivers the most selfless and beautiful love declaration of the whole show, to her. When she needs it the most, because he is the only one who can see her.

And his love is what gives strength to Buffy to trust herself and pursue her goal. He is the one who brings back the light in Buffy, who pushes her to live and accept her fate as being the one.

And talking about light,

♫ What a freakin' poetry to have centered Spike's whole redemption arc around it ♫

He was always pursuing that light, whether in Cecily when he was a human or Buffy as a vampire. All he had to do was bring the light into him and embrace his humanity to fulfill his redemption. And so he makes the ultimate sacrifice, And he glows. Not only he saves the world willingly and selflessly but he also gives back the fire inside Buffy, frees her from Sunnydale and her role as the sole slayer.

♫ "I love you" - "Spike" are the last words Buffy says in the show ♫ • Conclusion A freaking long ass post only to say that to me, Spuffy is very well written as enemies to lovers, thanks to Jane Espenson, Douglas Petrie & Marti Noxon. Though i think Spike still suffers some injustices, but I'm glad he got the respect he deserves in the comics, (which i consider canon) : Not only does Spike end up as part of the Scoobies but also with Buffy, and he is the only one with whom she fights for their relationship to last. ♫ And they're endgame in season 12 ♫ (Thank you Christos Gage)

I also think JW made many mistakes for Bangel to work: I know he was kinda annoyed by Spike's popularity at first and wanted Angel to be seen as the main vampire of the franchise, which led him to give Angel his own spinoff, but by doing that, he also broke the link between Buffy and Angel. Which ultimately led Spike to have a more organic evolution with her instead of Angel. They both had their own paths in their own separate worlds, which forced JW to accept Spuffy as being the logical conclusion. Just as Cordelia was also the best choice for Angel to grow and be more open about his emotions. Claiming in interviews that Angel is the love of Buffy's life without ever demonstrating it concretely in any of the media itself makes this statement fall flat. I do not hate Bangel, I think the ship was necessary for Buffy to grow, but i do see more Angel as her first idealised and tragic love, while with Spike, it is more grounded, mature and based on mutual respect, trust, acceptation and stability.

♫ Angel should have stayed and Spike and Drusilla should have had their own spinoff, and i'd have paid to see that. ♫ • My pov on Sprusilla?

Literally nothing to say about them, they match each other freak to a level no one can ever comprehend.

♫ They are a perfect match and untouchable. ♫ ♫ May they end up together again and last for eternity. ♫

♫ With animals. ♫ (alive)

[raisedbythetv89]

Weird (not weird) how once riley shows up and see’s Buffy in all her “shame” (sleeping with spike and working for minimum wage flipping burgers) and she feels completely humiliated having him see her like that - magically money isn’t a problem anymore and she’s not drowning in bills that force her to work AND slay AND raise dawn 🤔

While yes this does reinforce the idea the job was her attempt at “normal girl normal job” as spike says because she couldn’t keep up any other part of the act she used to before her death - this is apart of such a clear pattern of how much focus is on humiliating Buffy in regards to sex and relationships and how that same focus isn’t given to important aspects of the plot.

We get an entire episode about his new life and wife, their wedding etc and they couldn’t be bothered to come up with a fix to buffy’s money problems that are never addressed despite nothing in her circumstances changing????

They want to paint Riley as the hero and “the one that got away” yet failed to take any opportunity to show him actually ACTING like it. They could have EASILY had him showing back up in her life, seeing where she’s having to work and make ends meet and that she LOST HER MOTHER and going “hey I talked to such a such people in charge and got you this big sum of money for both help with the initiative and for your help on this mission” before flying away on his stupid helicopter like the dramatic ass piece of shit he is.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO EASY AND HELPED SO MUCH IN THEIR ATTEMPTS AT MAKING HIM THE HERO

But riley is by and for the male gaze exclusively so rather than actually supporting buffy at all we’re supposed to see him with his scar and “badass” military gear, authority, helicopter and “chill cool girl” wife and be like “wow 🤩 what a dreamy and desirable man! Buffy made such a big mistake!” 🤢 the man who never says anything about joyce or follows up about buffy’s dying comment and is withholding critical personal and mission information and who cheated on buffy and abandoned her and always made her feel horrible for being the slayer and being stronger than him….. YUCK

[loseremzo]

im reading the scrip for BTVS 6X15 and Sam, Riley’s wife, exists for literally no purpose other then for j*ss wh*don wanting to be a fucking bitch to Buffy. Like look what you can’t have now, look what you gave up blah blah blah. THEY DIDNT BREAK UP BECAUSE OF HER!!! HE FUCKING CHEATED AND BLAMED FOR ALL THIS EXTERNAL SHIT THAT SHE DIDNT ASK FOR AND ALL HIS INTERNAL FUCKING FEELLINGS!!!!

Anyway Sam. Based on the script, cause I haven’t actually watched the episode in awhile, literally comes in to help capture the demon and tell of Riley for not explaining the mission to Buffy which makes Buffy feel bad that she killed the demon cause RILEY DOESNT FUCKING EXPLAIN SHIT AND DOESNT EVEN TELL HER ABOUT HIS WIFE EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE LIKE SUPER CLOSE AND SHE CHANGES NEXT TO HIM IN CAR??? But Sam is the chill girl who doesn’t get insecure or care. Then she literally does nothing the rest of the episode. She gives Xander wedding advice and patrols with Buffy. SHES LITERALLY SOMEONE WE ARE JUST SUPPOSED TO ATTACH TO RILEY. I FORGOT WHAT HER FUCKING NAME WAS KINDA SHIT.

Like I get it. Gave him a wife to further Buffy’s development or healing and break up her and Spike. Whatever. But could you not do more with her character. Make her some actual badass instead of just getting one fight. She wasn’t even there in the end for the actual egg stuff, which was also her mission. But Riley didn’t bring her along. Cause he knew shit was gonna go down with Buffy and that they were still gonna have that weird tension. Anyway, once a cheat always a cheat. Especially when it had barely been a year and they were married. Like he didn’t even grow as a person before he was married. He married like his rebound.

In case you couldn’t tell I hate Riley.

[elysianholly]

This fucking guy

My villain origin story is people claiming that Riley's biggest crime in the series was being boring. He wasn't just boring. He was a passive-aggressive chauvinist who the show bent over backward to defend. A while back on Reddit, I made a list of reasons why Riley sucks. This is that list, and I'm adding to it.

The only reason he punches Parker is because Parker is mouthing off about a girl Riley likes. Everything about this interaction suggests that Riley has heard him say similar before, and hasn't cared until the woman in question was someone he had a vested interest in.

He calls Buffy stupid for not wanting to date him (if this guy slid into your DMs and called you stupid for turning him down, lbr, this would not lead into a healthy, lasting romance)

He immediately puts himself in competition with Buffy. Even at his most inoffensive, he says things like "I don't even know if I could take you."

He has an inherently chauvinistic view of the world (established in The Initiative)

He is upset that Buffy had a significant relationship before she knew him and assumes Buffy boinked Angel in The Yoko Factor

He uses abuser language to excuse his shitty behavior like, "I love you so much I can't think straight."

He decides that Buffy doesn't love him all by himself

When he decides that Buffy doesn't love him, he confides in Xander and doesn't communicate his relationship issues with Buffy

He wants to help Buffy but only in jobs that are "manly." In No Place Like Home, for instance, he nopes out when Buffy suggests he help with the spell to identify what might be wrong with Joyce. Even if there wasn't a lot for him to do, he could, idk, stick around to be moral support for his partner who is trying to figure out what might be attacking her mother. That seems like a pretty standard partner thing to do.

He gets upset that Buffy "doesn't get all worked up over him" the way she did with Angel when "getting all worked up" in CONTEXT means "isn't constantly miserable."

He is sad boi at Buffy in OoMM for also prioritizing her mother's health after she believes Riley is healed rather than sticking around to play nursemaid

He wants Buffy to show emotion over Joyce at a time when Buffy literally cannot (if you've never had a parent in the hospital with a life-threatening illness, maybe you don't know that there are times/places to break down and "in the hospital" where you're supposed to be strong isn't one of them)

He doesn't care that his girlfriend's mother is sick, possibly with something life-threatening; he cares that he got to be the hero of the piece, the shoulder for Buffy to cry on. His only reaction to any of that was to be hurt that Buffy didn't respond the way he thought she should; no concern for her well-being or Joyce's, just Riley getting his feelings hurt because he wasn't the center of Buffy's universe or the rock for her to lean on when all went to pieces

This is further confirmed by the way he just doesn't mention Joyce's absence at all in As You Were. When he leaves Sunnydale, it's after Joyce has had a successful operation. He returns and she's not there and no questions? No condolences? It's because he doesn't care.

He doesn't ask about Buffy's death when she lets him know she died.

He starts separating himself from the Scoobies and then gets mad for not being included

He literally cheats on Buffy with vampire sex workers (there are people who say they were not sex workers, but in a show where monsters are metaphors, you have to be especially dense or willfully obtuse to not realize this is what they are)

Riley intentionally puts himself in a position where he might be killed or turned specifically to SPITE BUFFY, which demonstrates his lack of consideration for what she might have to do later if things go bad

Riley blames Buffy for being roofied by Dracula (again, monsters as metaphor)

He never apologizes or owns that he was unfaithful

He blames his infidelity on Buffy, actually

The first time Buffy learns Riley isn't happy, she's told she should've seen it, which is classic victim blaming and happens from Xander AND Riley (and a good amount of fans who want to excuse that behavior)

He is fine with torturing sentient creatures, and in fact had a stake made specifically so he could torture vampires without killing them

He goes behind Buffy's back all the time

Riley was not boring. If he were boring, he would be inoffensive. Dull to watch but not rage-inducing. But he is rage-inducing because, despite all the passive-aggressive gaslighting bullshit he gets away with, people in this fandom still believe he was "Buffy's best boyfriend." That she was to blame for the deterioration of this relationship. That he was the healthiest of the Buffyverse men. The show does, too. That's why Xander (Wh*don's mouthpiece) gives that sanctimonious little speech to Buffy (the audience in this case) in Into the Woods to scold us for not treating Riley better. Then they double down in As You Were to make Buffy fawn all over herself to let this gaslighting asshole off the hook for everything he put her through.

Riley's sin is not being boring. It's that he was actually awful. Wh*don himself once called Riley a "healthy relationship" for Buffy, and if that doesn't tell you something, there's no talking to you.

[dreamsuvivor]

Riley boy… if you can’t handle dating a bad bitch, don’t date the baddest of them

[coraniaid]

OK, so, for context:

I don't like Agent Riley Finn, at all. He is one of my least favorite characters in Buffy, by quite some distance. I hated him even before the events of Season 5, and I only continued to hate him afterwards. I think the show would be significantly improved if his character had never been introduced. I think Whedon's idea that Buffy and Riley represent the show's one "happy and healthy relationship" is nonsensical.

I don't like As You Were. It's arguably Doug Petrie's worst episode (well, worst so far, anyway: let's not forgive him for his Season 7 episodes just yet).

I don't even really like Season 6 much (certainly not as much as so many people on Tumblr pretend to do). I think the concept of the season is very good but the execution is often decidedly lacking. It is not a season I often feel the urge to rewatch.

But, that being said, I'll confess it is somewhat bizarre to see so many people reblogging a post that says As You Were would have been improved if Riley showed up contrite and humble and openly ashamed of his [yes, unquestionably terrible and indefensible] actions in Season 5, or that the episode is one last attempt by the writers to force the audience to like him. To me, that is just ... obviously not true. I don't even see how it could be true.

As You Were is barely about Riley Finn at all. It's about Buffy. Specifically it's about what most of Season 6 is about: Buffy being miserable and depressed, struggling with bills and a soul-crushing mininum wage job, resenting her friends for having brought her back to life, romanticizing her past and (wrongly) convinced that she somehow 'came back wrong'. Riley is only in the episode to further that aim.

So, yes, the episode ignores all of Riley's [very real, very irritating, very hard to forgive] flaws and past failings and instead presents him as a dashing and attractive ex-boyfriend; as the perfect guy who somehow got away. Yes, it focuses on how much Buffy's own fortunes have declined since they broke up. Yes, Buffy is meant to find him attractive and be sad that he's married to somebody else already. Yes, the show deliberately sets up Riley as being competent and put together and high status while Buffy herself is none of these things. But this isn't because the writers are somehow trying to trick you into liking Riley (it would obviously be a very stupid and ineffective way to do that if it were! it demonstrably doesn't actually make anybody who didn't like Riley change their mind! why assume that it is trying to?). It is because this is how Buffy sees things herself.

The episode is about Buffy first, and Riley ..., not even third. He is a plot device. Just as in Season 3's Gingerbread (when Joyce is possessed and tries to burn Buffy at the stake as part of her campaign to cleanse Sunnydale of all things supernatural), or Helpless (when Giles puts his loyalty to the Council above Buffy's own safety and well-being), in As You Were Riley exists primarily to tell us something about Buffy. In Season 3, Buffy was afraid that being a Slayer would ruin her relationship with her mother and that Giles didn't really want to be the replacement father figure she clearly wanted him to be, and those episodes have her fears come true. Both Joyce and Giles act in pretty repellent (and arguably out-of-character) ways in their respective episodes, but those actions are justified in that they are consistent with Buffy's own view of the world. You could replace both of them with nightmare versions of their characters (like Hank Summers in Season 1's Nightmares) and both episodes would play out the same way (and have the same glaring lack of follow-up in later episodes).

So too in As You Were. The writers are probably more sympathetic to Riley than the average Tumblr user in 2024, but they don't particularly care if you like Riley or not. He's not been in the show for a year and after this he's never going to be in it again. This isn't about him. What is important is that Buffy herself misses Riley and her relationship with him: not necessarily because Riley was so great [again, he wasn't: Riley sucks] but because he's a part of her older life that she wishes she could go back to. A time when she had a 'normal' relationship and was still in college (and doing well academically!) and her mom was still alive and things seemed to be going well for her. Because she misses the version of Buffy that she used to be. (Who exactly are we supposed to think the 'you' of As You Were refers to? I don't think it's Agent Finn...)

Sure, I'd personally think better of Riley Finn as a person if he showed up looking sheepish and told Buffy he was sorry for how badly he behaved in Season 5 and he said he'd fund all her future bills and help her get back into college before dedicating the rest of his life to campaigning against both missionary work and US-backed (para)military actions in South and Central America. I'd think better of Joyce if she'd ignored the two demon kids only she could see and supported her real daughter better, too. Or of Giles if he hadn't ever gone along with the plan of hypnotizing and drugging a teenage girl he'd sworn to take care of and protect and who, less than a year earlier, he'd promised his unconditional "support and respect".

But Riley being a decent human being and making Buffy feel better about herself wouldn't make As You Were a "better" episode. It would make it a completely different episode, one that belonged in a completely different season. It would make it something that was utterly at odds, tonally and thematically, with the version of Season 6 that actually exists. This is not a season where nice things happen to Buffy, and if you think it should be I honestly don't think you like the story the season is trying to tell very much.

As You Were is not primarily "the episode where Riley comes back" (in which the writers then decided to talk about how great Riley was with the aim of making the fans like him while Buffy ends up feeling like shit and being embarrassed about how her own life is going as some sort of collateral damage). It is an episode where Buffy continues to feel like shit and be embarrased about how badly her life is going (and, in order to further Buffy's arc, this time Riley is there too to make her feel worse).

Do I think that it works to have Riley fill the role he does in this episode? Well, no, not really. Like I said at the top of this post, I don't like Riley and I don't enjoy seeing him on my television screen. Into The Woods' awful ending makes me pretty angry and it is a shame we never got any pushback on the idea that Buffy "letting Riley go" was a mistake. Riley wasn't ever the perfect boyfriend As You Were has Buffy remember him as. This isn't one of the better episodes of Season 6. But an improved version of the episode wouldn't have Riley act like a better person. That more palatable, more fan-friendly version of Riley just isn't compatible with the story the show is telling. An improved version of the episode that was still trying to tell the same fundamental story wouldn't have Riley Finn in it at all.

[vampirismadvocate]

Reading a Spuffy fic that takes place during season 4 and getting to the chapter about R*ley’s behavior

[awinterrosesstuff]

I hate how Riley Finn is presented as the perfect boyfriend by the narrative. I know Joss Whedon wanted to show an "healthy" relationship between him and Buffy. And really he failed miserably.

If anything Riley is barely presented as a good boyfriend. Maybe in some instances, like when Buffy thinks of dividing herself in two and he answers that he wants the "whole" Buffy. He seems impressed by her strong personality when she stands against Maggie on Willow's behalf. Maybe it's also her loyalty that draw him to her. But I'm not sure about it. He's also very curious about her physical strength and her mission. And that's great (on the surface at least). I don't think he understands her mindset concerning the slay. It's a game for him. Not for Buffy.

And quickly, he becomes envious and jealous of her strength and powers. He wants to be the strongest of the two. He wants her to be dependent of him for protection and emotional support. It's particulary clear when he loses his purpose in the initiative. But it was already there before.

He's upset about ridiculous things, honestly. He's angry that Buffy got betwitted by Dracula as if it was her fault. Didn't he say in a scene that Buffy allowed Angel and Dracula to bit her and have an hold on her ? That's obviously what he's jealous for. He seems to think to think they had her in a way he never could. He goes to the vampires for that very same reason, to be bitten, to experience it in the first place. Then he stays because they "need" him. He's unhappy when Dawn confesses that she's glad her sister is with him because Buffy was always crying because of Angel. This scene always makes me upset. The teenager is happy for her sister and he's there wondering about Buffy's love for him.

It honestly feels like he dislikes some of the most important traits of Buffy. Her strength, her resilience, her independence, her mission... he wants her to rely on him more. He's upset that she doesn't allow herself to be vulnerable in front of him. To be fair, she doesn't want to be "weak" in front on anyone, but he doesn't care about it. He only cares about his own feelings.

He has insecurities (and actually that's important) but he blames it on Buffy. His jealousy, his envy, his cowardice, he selfishness... it never got properly adressed. When they have their confrontation, after she discovered about the vampires, he explains himself (finally) and blames her. He's really a moron for not talking to her before. I get it's hard. But he's the one being stupid in the room. Not her. His communication skills fucking suck. You could argue he didn't want to put more weight on her, but at this point of the story he could have told her.

What really matters to him is him... his feelings. And with the ultimatum, he only gets worse. Man, if you want to leave, then leave. It's not her responsabilty to choose for you. You're just acting like a child...

[thequeenofsastiel]

Me watching season 4-Why does everyone hate Riley?

Me watching season 5-Jfc I hate Riley

[on-this-day-btvs]

December 19, 2000

Into the Woods aired for BTVS season 5, episode 10. Riley has an emotional confrontation with someone. Thank goodness for helicopters, although this is not the last we see of Riley in the Buffyverse.

[missjessefantastico]

the worst part of that godawful riley episode in s6 is that willow looks so freaking stinking cute but i can't appreciate the look without wanting to vomit bc what on earth is that riley-written-fanfic episode? stop recording riley's revenge fantasies, they aren't even good!

[raisedbythetv89]

Never not thinking about how Buffy has to beg and plead for Angel to not let the sun kill him when the first was tormenting him with what he’s done and that fact that soul or no soul he still wants to hurt Buffy and he concludes the only way he won’t is to kill himself….. and the only reason he didn’t dust was the storm and he was fully gonna let her watch him die again because he couldn’t face what a worthless piece of shit and a monster even with the soul he really is (and then suddenly they’re back together even though Buffy said they couldn’t be together anymore like RIGHT before all this so essentially Angel threatens to kill himself and then suddenly he and Buffy are back together 🙃 i hate it here)

Riley was gonna let himself die rather than become even weaker than Buffy while she again begs for him to stop being a whiny attention seeking toddler and grow the fuck up and do what he needs to do so he won’t DIE (my words not hers obviously lol) and when that doesn’t work and she still doesn’t “pay enough attention to him or need him enough” in his eyes while she’s ya know being the slayer, raising her sister and taking care of her sick mother…. He cheats on her in a way that again threatens his own life and the lives of everyone he could easily kill in her life if he were to be turned and when THAT doesn’t work he threatens to leave forever unless she forgives him IMMEDIATELY

And Spike who is the only one to actually die after she again is pleading you don’t have to do this “no there’s still time you’ve done enough” because Spike knows Buffy doesn’t deserve “good enough” Buffy deserves everything, she deserves to be free of the hellmouth even though that means they can’t be together and he’ll die

Two man-children who threaten to kill themselves because they can’t handle what they’ve done or that they’re not as strong as they think they are and drag an overburdened and traumatized young woman they had no business even dating in the first place along for their self-destructive ride vs a man who literally already sacrificed everything he was to become someone she could love without guilt, sacrificing everything he fought to become, for her and her beloved world she loves so much and fights so hard to protect.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO MEN WHO THREATEN DEATH VS THE MAN WHO ACTUALLY DIED AND THE VASTLY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THESE THREE EVENTS 😭😭😭

Spike dying BECAUSE he was worthy of Buffy’s love rather than because he wasn’t like the two who came before him

[bibliophileiz]

Halfway through season 4 of Buffy and Riley lost all good will I had for him in one scene:

(paraphrasing) "you're stupid, self-absorbed, scared, hung up on a guy, and don't appreciate how great you have it being forced to fight the forces of evil during your adolescent years. Nothing you've been through can be that bad. Let's go out!"