#anti Riley Finn

[slayer-pride-parade]

If I had a nickel for every time a guy on Buffy metaphorically cheated on his girlfriend via supernatural means and then killed the woman he cheated with and also left town immediately after his girlfriend found out about the metaphorical cheating I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.

[raisedbythetv89]

Weird (not weird) how once riley shows up and see’s Buffy in all her “shame” (sleeping with spike and working for minimum wage flipping burgers) and she feels completely humiliated having him see her like that - magically money isn’t a problem anymore and she’s not drowning in bills that force her to work AND slay AND raise dawn 🤔

While yes this does reinforce the idea the job was her attempt at “normal girl normal job” as spike says because she couldn’t keep up any other part of the act she used to before her death - this is apart of such a clear pattern of how much focus is on humiliating Buffy in regards to sex and relationships and how that same focus isn’t given to important aspects of the plot.

We get an entire episode about his new life and wife, their wedding etc and they couldn’t be bothered to come up with a fix to buffy’s money problems that are never addressed despite nothing in her circumstances changing????

They want to paint Riley as the hero and “the one that got away” yet failed to take any opportunity to show him actually ACTING like it. They could have EASILY had him showing back up in her life, seeing where she’s having to work and make ends meet and that she LOST HER MOTHER and going “hey I talked to such a such people in charge and got you this big sum of money for both help with the initiative and for your help on this mission” before flying away on his stupid helicopter like the dramatic ass piece of shit he is.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO EASY AND HELPED SO MUCH IN THEIR ATTEMPTS AT MAKING HIM THE HERO

But riley is by and for the male gaze exclusively so rather than actually supporting buffy at all we’re supposed to see him with his scar and “badass” military gear, authority, helicopter and “chill cool girl” wife and be like “wow 🤩 what a dreamy and desirable man! Buffy made such a big mistake!” 🤢 the man who never says anything about joyce or follows up about buffy’s dying comment and is withholding critical personal and mission information and who cheated on buffy and abandoned her and always made her feel horrible for being the slayer and being stronger than him….. YUCK

[loseremzo]

im reading the scrip for BTVS 6X15 and Sam, Riley’s wife, exists for literally no purpose other then for j*ss wh*don wanting to be a fucking bitch to Buffy. Like look what you can’t have now, look what you gave up blah blah blah. THEY DIDNT BREAK UP BECAUSE OF HER!!! HE FUCKING CHEATED AND BLAMED FOR ALL THIS EXTERNAL SHIT THAT SHE DIDNT ASK FOR AND ALL HIS INTERNAL FUCKING FEELLINGS!!!!

Anyway Sam. Based on the script, cause I haven’t actually watched the episode in awhile, literally comes in to help capture the demon and tell of Riley for not explaining the mission to Buffy which makes Buffy feel bad that she killed the demon cause RILEY DOESNT FUCKING EXPLAIN SHIT AND DOESNT EVEN TELL HER ABOUT HIS WIFE EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE LIKE SUPER CLOSE AND SHE CHANGES NEXT TO HIM IN CAR??? But Sam is the chill girl who doesn’t get insecure or care. Then she literally does nothing the rest of the episode. She gives Xander wedding advice and patrols with Buffy. SHES LITERALLY SOMEONE WE ARE JUST SUPPOSED TO ATTACH TO RILEY. I FORGOT WHAT HER FUCKING NAME WAS KINDA SHIT.

Like I get it. Gave him a wife to further Buffy’s development or healing and break up her and Spike. Whatever. But could you not do more with her character. Make her some actual badass instead of just getting one fight. She wasn’t even there in the end for the actual egg stuff, which was also her mission. But Riley didn’t bring her along. Cause he knew shit was gonna go down with Buffy and that they were still gonna have that weird tension. Anyway, once a cheat always a cheat. Especially when it had barely been a year and they were married. Like he didn’t even grow as a person before he was married. He married like his rebound.

In case you couldn’t tell I hate Riley.

[elysianholly]

This fucking guy

My villain origin story is people claiming that Riley's biggest crime in the series was being boring. He wasn't just boring. He was a passive-aggressive chauvinist who the show bent over backward to defend. A while back on Reddit, I made a list of reasons why Riley sucks. This is that list, and I'm adding to it.

The only reason he punches Parker is because Parker is mouthing off about a girl Riley likes. Everything about this interaction suggests that Riley has heard him say similar before, and hasn't cared until the woman in question was someone he had a vested interest in.

He calls Buffy stupid for not wanting to date him (if this guy slid into your DMs and called you stupid for turning him down, lbr, this would not lead into a healthy, lasting romance)

He immediately puts himself in competition with Buffy. Even at his most inoffensive, he says things like "I don't even know if I could take you."

He has an inherently chauvinistic view of the world (established in The Initiative)

He is upset that Buffy had a significant relationship before she knew him and assumes Buffy boinked Angel in The Yoko Factor

He uses abuser language to excuse his shitty behavior like, "I love you so much I can't think straight."

He decides that Buffy doesn't love him all by himself

When he decides that Buffy doesn't love him, he confides in Xander and doesn't communicate his relationship issues with Buffy

He wants to help Buffy but only in jobs that are "manly." In No Place Like Home, for instance, he nopes out when Buffy suggests he help with the spell to identify what might be wrong with Joyce. Even if there wasn't a lot for him to do, he could, idk, stick around to be moral support for his partner who is trying to figure out what might be attacking her mother. That seems like a pretty standard partner thing to do.

He gets upset that Buffy "doesn't get all worked up over him" the way she did with Angel when "getting all worked up" in CONTEXT means "isn't constantly miserable."

He is sad boi at Buffy in OoMM for also prioritizing her mother's health after she believes Riley is healed rather than sticking around to play nursemaid

He wants Buffy to show emotion over Joyce at a time when Buffy literally cannot (if you've never had a parent in the hospital with a life-threatening illness, maybe you don't know that there are times/places to break down and "in the hospital" where you're supposed to be strong isn't one of them)

He doesn't care that his girlfriend's mother is sick, possibly with something life-threatening; he cares that he got to be the hero of the piece, the shoulder for Buffy to cry on. His only reaction to any of that was to be hurt that Buffy didn't respond the way he thought she should; no concern for her well-being or Joyce's, just Riley getting his feelings hurt because he wasn't the center of Buffy's universe or the rock for her to lean on when all went to pieces

This is further confirmed by the way he just doesn't mention Joyce's absence at all in As You Were. When he leaves Sunnydale, it's after Joyce has had a successful operation. He returns and she's not there and no questions? No condolences? It's because he doesn't care.

He doesn't ask about Buffy's death when she lets him know she died.

He starts separating himself from the Scoobies and then gets mad for not being included

He literally cheats on Buffy with vampire sex workers (there are people who say they were not sex workers, but in a show where monsters are metaphors, you have to be especially dense or willfully obtuse to not realize this is what they are)

Riley intentionally puts himself in a position where he might be killed or turned specifically to SPITE BUFFY, which demonstrates his lack of consideration for what she might have to do later if things go bad

Riley blames Buffy for being roofied by Dracula (again, monsters as metaphor)

He never apologizes or owns that he was unfaithful

He blames his infidelity on Buffy, actually

The first time Buffy learns Riley isn't happy, she's told she should've seen it, which is classic victim blaming and happens from Xander AND Riley (and a good amount of fans who want to excuse that behavior)

He is fine with torturing sentient creatures, and in fact had a stake made specifically so he could torture vampires without killing them

He goes behind Buffy's back all the time

Riley was not boring. If he were boring, he would be inoffensive. Dull to watch but not rage-inducing. But he is rage-inducing because, despite all the passive-aggressive gaslighting bullshit he gets away with, people in this fandom still believe he was "Buffy's best boyfriend." That she was to blame for the deterioration of this relationship. That he was the healthiest of the Buffyverse men. The show does, too. That's why Xander (Wh*don's mouthpiece) gives that sanctimonious little speech to Buffy (the audience in this case) in Into the Woods to scold us for not treating Riley better. Then they double down in As You Were to make Buffy fawn all over herself to let this gaslighting asshole off the hook for everything he put her through.

Riley's sin is not being boring. It's that he was actually awful. Wh*don himself once called Riley a "healthy relationship" for Buffy, and if that doesn't tell you something, there's no talking to you.

[dreamsuvivor]

Riley boy… if you can’t handle dating a bad bitch, don’t date the baddest of them

[coraniaid]

OK, so, for context:

I don't like Agent Riley Finn, at all. He is one of my least favorite characters in Buffy, by quite some distance. I hated him even before the events of Season 5, and I only continued to hate him afterwards. I think the show would be significantly improved if his character had never been introduced. I think Whedon's idea that Buffy and Riley represent the show's one "happy and healthy relationship" is nonsensical.

I don't like As You Were. It's arguably Doug Petrie's worst episode (well, worst so far, anyway: let's not forgive him for his Season 7 episodes just yet).

I don't even really like Season 6 much (certainly not as much as so many people on Tumblr pretend to do). I think the concept of the season is very good but the execution is often decidedly lacking. It is not a season I often feel the urge to rewatch.

But, that being said, I'll confess it is somewhat bizarre to see so many people reblogging a post that says As You Were would have been improved if Riley showed up contrite and humble and openly ashamed of his [yes, unquestionably terrible and indefensible] actions in Season 5, or that the episode is one last attempt by the writers to force the audience to like him. To me, that is just ... obviously not true. I don't even see how it could be true.

As You Were is barely about Riley Finn at all. It's about Buffy. Specifically it's about what most of Season 6 is about: Buffy being miserable and depressed, struggling with bills and a soul-crushing mininum wage job, resenting her friends for having brought her back to life, romanticizing her past and (wrongly) convinced that she somehow 'came back wrong'. Riley is only in the episode to further that aim.

So, yes, the episode ignores all of Riley's [very real, very irritating, very hard to forgive] flaws and past failings and instead presents him as a dashing and attractive ex-boyfriend; as the perfect guy who somehow got away. Yes, it focuses on how much Buffy's own fortunes have declined since they broke up. Yes, Buffy is meant to find him attractive and be sad that he's married to somebody else already. Yes, the show deliberately sets up Riley as being competent and put together and high status while Buffy herself is none of these things. But this isn't because the writers are somehow trying to trick you into liking Riley (it would obviously be a very stupid and ineffective way to do that if it were! it demonstrably doesn't actually make anybody who didn't like Riley change their mind! why assume that it is trying to?). It is because this is how Buffy sees things herself.

The episode is about Buffy first, and Riley ..., not even third. He is a plot device. Just as in Season 3's Gingerbread (when Joyce is possessed and tries to burn Buffy at the stake as part of her campaign to cleanse Sunnydale of all things supernatural), or Helpless (when Giles puts his loyalty to the Council above Buffy's own safety and well-being), in As You Were Riley exists primarily to tell us something about Buffy. In Season 3, Buffy was afraid that being a Slayer would ruin her relationship with her mother and that Giles didn't really want to be the replacement father figure she clearly wanted him to be, and those episodes have her fears come true. Both Joyce and Giles act in pretty repellent (and arguably out-of-character) ways in their respective episodes, but those actions are justified in that they are consistent with Buffy's own view of the world. You could replace both of them with nightmare versions of their characters (like Hank Summers in Season 1's Nightmares) and both episodes would play out the same way (and have the same glaring lack of follow-up in later episodes).

So too in As You Were. The writers are probably more sympathetic to Riley than the average Tumblr user in 2024, but they don't particularly care if you like Riley or not. He's not been in the show for a year and after this he's never going to be in it again. This isn't about him. What is important is that Buffy herself misses Riley and her relationship with him: not necessarily because Riley was so great [again, he wasn't: Riley sucks] but because he's a part of her older life that she wishes she could go back to. A time when she had a 'normal' relationship and was still in college (and doing well academically!) and her mom was still alive and things seemed to be going well for her. Because she misses the version of Buffy that she used to be. (Who exactly are we supposed to think the 'you' of As You Were refers to? I don't think it's Agent Finn...)

Sure, I'd personally think better of Riley Finn as a person if he showed up looking sheepish and told Buffy he was sorry for how badly he behaved in Season 5 and he said he'd fund all her future bills and help her get back into college before dedicating the rest of his life to campaigning against both missionary work and US-backed (para)military actions in South and Central America. I'd think better of Joyce if she'd ignored the two demon kids only she could see and supported her real daughter better, too. Or of Giles if he hadn't ever gone along with the plan of hypnotizing and drugging a teenage girl he'd sworn to take care of and protect and who, less than a year earlier, he'd promised his unconditional "support and respect".

But Riley being a decent human being and making Buffy feel better about herself wouldn't make As You Were a "better" episode. It would make it a completely different episode, one that belonged in a completely different season. It would make it something that was utterly at odds, tonally and thematically, with the version of Season 6 that actually exists. This is not a season where nice things happen to Buffy, and if you think it should be I honestly don't think you like the story the season is trying to tell very much.

As You Were is not primarily "the episode where Riley comes back" (in which the writers then decided to talk about how great Riley was with the aim of making the fans like him while Buffy ends up feeling like shit and being embarrassed about how her own life is going as some sort of collateral damage). It is an episode where Buffy continues to feel like shit and be embarrased about how badly her life is going (and, in order to further Buffy's arc, this time Riley is there too to make her feel worse).

Do I think that it works to have Riley fill the role he does in this episode? Well, no, not really. Like I said at the top of this post, I don't like Riley and I don't enjoy seeing him on my television screen. Into The Woods' awful ending makes me pretty angry and it is a shame we never got any pushback on the idea that Buffy "letting Riley go" was a mistake. Riley wasn't ever the perfect boyfriend As You Were has Buffy remember him as. This isn't one of the better episodes of Season 6. But an improved version of the episode wouldn't have Riley act like a better person. That more palatable, more fan-friendly version of Riley just isn't compatible with the story the show is telling. An improved version of the episode that was still trying to tell the same fundamental story wouldn't have Riley Finn in it at all.

[vampirismadvocate]

Reading a Spuffy fic that takes place during season 4 and getting to the chapter about R*ley’s behavior

[awinterrosesstuff]

I hate how Riley Finn is presented as the perfect boyfriend by the narrative. I know Joss Whedon wanted to show an "healthy" relationship between him and Buffy. And really he failed miserably.

If anything Riley is barely presented as a good boyfriend. Maybe in some instances, like when Buffy thinks of dividing herself in two and he answers that he wants the "whole" Buffy. He seems impressed by her strong personality when she stands against Maggie on Willow's behalf. Maybe it's also her loyalty that draw him to her. But I'm not sure about it. He's also very curious about her physical strength and her mission. And that's great (on the surface at least). I don't think he understands her mindset concerning the slay. It's a game for him. Not for Buffy.

And quickly, he becomes envious and jealous of her strength and powers. He wants to be the strongest of the two. He wants her to be dependent of him for protection and emotional support. It's particulary clear when he loses his purpose in the initiative. But it was already there before.

He's upset about ridiculous things, honestly. He's angry that Buffy got betwitted by Dracula as if it was her fault. Didn't he say in a scene that Buffy allowed Angel and Dracula to bit her and have an hold on her ? That's obviously what he's jealous for. He seems to think to think they had her in a way he never could. He goes to the vampires for that very same reason, to be bitten, to experience it in the first place. Then he stays because they "need" him. He's unhappy when Dawn confesses that she's glad her sister is with him because Buffy was always crying because of Angel. This scene always makes me upset. The teenager is happy for her sister and he's there wondering about Buffy's love for him.

It honestly feels like he dislikes some of the most important traits of Buffy. Her strength, her resilience, her independence, her mission... he wants her to rely on him more. He's upset that she doesn't allow herself to be vulnerable in front of him. To be fair, she doesn't want to be "weak" in front on anyone, but he doesn't care about it. He only cares about his own feelings.

He has insecurities (and actually that's important) but he blames it on Buffy. His jealousy, his envy, his cowardice, he selfishness... it never got properly adressed. When they have their confrontation, after she discovered about the vampires, he explains himself (finally) and blames her. He's really a moron for not talking to her before. I get it's hard. But he's the one being stupid in the room. Not her. His communication skills fucking suck. You could argue he didn't want to put more weight on her, but at this point of the story he could have told her.

What really matters to him is him... his feelings. And with the ultimatum, he only gets worse. Man, if you want to leave, then leave. It's not her responsabilty to choose for you. You're just acting like a child...

[thequeenofsastiel]

Me watching season 4-Why does everyone hate Riley?

Me watching season 5-Jfc I hate Riley

[on-this-day-btvs]

December 19, 2000

Into the Woods aired for BTVS season 5, episode 10. Riley has an emotional confrontation with someone. Thank goodness for helicopters, although this is not the last we see of Riley in the Buffyverse.

[layer-of-slayers]

hey remember when Willow told Riley if he hurt Buffy she'd beat him to death with a shovel? where was that energy in s5, Willow? Riley has hurt Buffy and you didn't even poke at Riley with a shovel, much less hurt him with one. where was this energy when he came back in s6 with a spanking new wife and a "mission" and showed up at Buffy's place of work pretending that he needed her, proceeded to take her away from there, avoided telling her anything about his marriage OR the key point about their mission (namely: do not kill the demon we're hunting down, we need it alive), and then made her feel like shit about her life to the point that she ended up apologising to him despite her life and choices being none of his goddamn business?  where were the shovels, Will? you're a powerful witch by that point, you could have summoned one from the ether or whatever and still no shovels. you made a vow that day, Willow, and all things considered I think you should have upheld it, in spirit if not the letter of it exactly

[juanabaloo]

Faith Lehane is the MVP!

aka yet another Eliza Dushku appreciation post!

Still not over the fact that Faith didn't have a last name until 2 years AFTER BTVS went off the air. She literally DID NOT HAVE A LAST NAME the whole time she was on the show. (Neither did Kendra BTW.)

In the literal dictionary sense: Faith is technically a minor character in terms of screen time. (Whaaaa???) She was in 20 episodes of BTVS and 6 of ATS. She was never listed in the main cast for either. She was not in the BTVS (or ATS) 20 year cast reunion.

We know Eliza played Faith as having a crush on Buffy. In cons Eliza consistently supported the idea of Fuffy (Faith x Buffy). (GIF proof)

Think about Riley, supposedly Buffy's third love interest on the show (behind Spike and Angel). The show tries really hard to have you think he's a good guy (5x10 Into the Woods - hate this ep) and that he's the one who got away (6x15 As You Were - not buying it). Riley was in 31 BTVS epis (vs 20 for Faith). Riley also has more speaking time than Faith in BTVS, ranked at #10 vs #13 for Faith. But it's 2022 and who the fuck is still talking about Riley? (mostly) Nobody!

But for Faith? There's gorgeous gifsets and insightful meta essays and text posts and webweaving poetry posts about Faith and Fuffy. (I'm not even gonna get into the fanfic that's still getting posted.) That's what Fuffy is still inspiring, nearly 20 years after going off the air!

So... also proud of you FUFFY Nation. Sometimes I get a little choked up (like Buffy here) and sometimes I get hopeful and thoughtful (like Faith here). Here's to a great 2023!!

Gif credits: top (sweet on her) is from BTVS 7x20 by @raggeddypondond middle (drink and porch) is from Faith in 7.19 by @shelly-johnson bottom (right in the feels) is from Buffy & Faith 7.18 by @cwladiesdaily

Additional gif that I couldn't figure out how to include: linked gif proof of Eliza supporting Fuffy is from pullmysoul

[raisedbythetv89]

Never not thinking about how Buffy has to beg and plead for Angel to not let the sun kill him when the first was tormenting him with what he’s done and that fact that soul or no soul he still wants to hurt Buffy and he concludes the only way he won’t is to kill himself….. and the only reason he didn’t dust was the storm and he was fully gonna let her watch him die again because he couldn’t face what a worthless piece of shit and a monster even with the soul he really is (and then suddenly they’re back together even though Buffy said they couldn’t be together anymore like RIGHT before all this so essentially Angel threatens to kill himself and then suddenly he and Buffy are back together 🙃 i hate it here)

Riley was gonna let himself die rather than become even weaker than Buffy while she again begs for him to stop being a whiny attention seeking toddler and grow the fuck up and do what he needs to do so he won’t DIE (my words not hers obviously lol) and when that doesn’t work and she still doesn’t “pay enough attention to him or need him enough” in his eyes while she’s ya know being the slayer, raising her sister and taking care of her sick mother…. He cheats on her in a way that again threatens his own life and the lives of everyone he could easily kill in her life if he were to be turned and when THAT doesn’t work he threatens to leave forever unless she forgives him IMMEDIATELY

And Spike who is the only one to actually die after she again is pleading you don’t have to do this “no there’s still time you’ve done enough” because Spike knows Buffy doesn’t deserve “good enough” Buffy deserves everything, she deserves to be free of the hellmouth even though that means they can’t be together and he’ll die

Two man-children who threaten to kill themselves because they can’t handle what they’ve done or that they’re not as strong as they think they are and drag an overburdened and traumatized young woman they had no business even dating in the first place along for their self-destructive ride vs a man who literally already sacrificed everything he was to become someone she could love without guilt, sacrificing everything he fought to become, for her and her beloved world she loves so much and fights so hard to protect.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO MEN WHO THREATEN DEATH VS THE MAN WHO ACTUALLY DIED AND THE VASTLY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THESE THREE EVENTS 😭😭😭

Spike dying BECAUSE he was worthy of Buffy’s love rather than because he wasn’t like the two who came before him

[missjessefantastico]

the worst part of that godawful riley episode in s6 is that willow looks so freaking stinking cute but i can't appreciate the look without wanting to vomit bc what on earth is that riley-written-fanfic episode? stop recording riley's revenge fantasies, they aren't even good!

[bibliophileiz]

Halfway through season 4 of Buffy and Riley lost all good will I had for him in one scene:

(paraphrasing) "you're stupid, self-absorbed, scared, hung up on a guy, and don't appreciate how great you have it being forced to fight the forces of evil during your adolescent years. Nothing you've been through can be that bad. Let's go out!"

[dreamsuvivor]

Hear me out: the hot tall dark and mysterious vampire/immortal/other kind of mystical creature boyfriend will always be supperior to the boring basic “normal joe” bf, (no matter how toxic their relationship with the mc is). At least the toxicity is usually rooted in the fictional aspect of their relationship, (like their age gap, or idk killing somebody close to the mc). But the “normal joe”s are always just controlling and jealous in a very “every other guy you find on tinder” kinda way.