#anti Phillip crane

[suzieloveships]

Is Eloise actually sapphic and/or ace coded or do I dislike "To Sir Phillip, with love" so much I'm feeding my own delusion because Eloise and Marina deserve better? We won't be able to tell until it is too late

[torchwood-99]

Eloise's Love Interests: A Comparison

Sir Phillip Crane: “you might consider shutting your mouth and using it for some other purpose”

VS

Theo Sharpe: "I've read all of these and I set them aside for you. I thought perhaps you might share your thoughts on them."

.......and Philoise stans wonder why we prefer Theo.

[bookish-cravings]

The same crowd that gets on Eloise’s neck about being rich and privileged and unaware of how hard other people’s lives are is the same crowd that trashed her for spending time with Theo, seeing more of the world outside of the ton, learning more about women’s rights and the world around her and called her selfish for wanting more than to spend her life as a man’s trophy-on-a-shelf

Almost like you guys don’t actually want her to grow and expand her worldview, you’re just waiting for Scumbag Ph*lip to come and completely destroy her spirit and punish her for thinking she could possibly do more with her life than be a wife and mother

And what exactly was so selfish about her spending time with Theo? You guys love Benophie as if the class difference isn’t also a factor there

[bloodyrook]

I was very upset too learn the details of eloise brigertons book and if any of them should have their pairings changed its her. I'm not even saying make her a lesbian but like don't do that to marina thompson and then shove eloise with the same awful man. Like let show phillip crane be a good guy and marina be happy with him, then just give eloise a different pen pal. Like that pairing would just not fit in with the show as it is so if your gonna have to change it that much just throw the whole man away

[rainybraindays]

So I haven't read Eloises book because of a mixture of thinking the concept was boring andbeing a lesbian Eloise truther, but I just fell down a rabbit hole and holy shit Phillip is a terrible person?? Like i thought he was boring from the way people who like him talk about him, but oh my god???

[doomed2repeat]

About Theo and Eloise:

In my humble opinion:

Theo’s use as a character is to encourage Eloise to look past the surface of people. Of course he’s there to introduce her to romantic attraction, but in a very specific way, and it’s to start developing a sense of what she might like in a partner. Just because someone is perfect for you superficially does not mean they actually are, and for a character like Eloise patience and discernment are going to be very important for her storyline.

🛑 If you really really love Theo or Theloise and think they should be endgame, please stop now… 🛑

We got foreshadowing of this when Violet tries to hook Eloise up with that ton guy at the Hearts and Flowers ball. Violet picks him out for Eloise because she says he shares her rebelliousness. And that guy is rebellious and is looking for someone different, just like Violet says. But his personality is all wrong for Eloise and it crashes and burns pretty much immediately.

Theo is said to be “perfect” for Eloise. And on the surface, he might seem so. He’s a radical. He’s political. But those are his interests. Not his personality.

So let’s really look at his personality. Theo is one of the most condescending and patronizing people Eloise comes across. When he first meets her, he talks down to her, making assumptions of her based on her gender and class. Their initial banter is the stuff of meet cutes, which glosses over WHY they were bantering back and forth like that in the first place- he immediately underestimated her intelligence upon seeing her.

It’s debatable why she accepted it from him vs the other guy, but I think the biggest issue is that unlike the guy Eloise danced with at the ball, Eloise has a reason to keep talking to him despite him showing the same attitude that left her running from the ballroom floor. She needed him for something, so it was worth continuing to engage, and engaging with him for longer allows her crush to grow.

Eloise is going to be a character who needs time to really fall in love. And so she is going to need to develop the capacity for more patience for other people than her character currently has. She’s often impulsive and makes snap decisions, but Theo forces her out of that by being a character she has to work with. Which is a great thing! Through Theo, Eloise gets to explore more of her interests, which is not nothing! Credit where credit is due, she’s obviously going to want that in a partner, and I would hope any relationship they write for her would have that as an element to it. It’s valuable for her to learn that that’s possible as she starts to develop her sense of taste in men.

But he’s also not the ONE yet, which is also valuable for her.

When Eloise doesn’t kiss Theo he blows up at her. He lashes out and accuses her of being just like every other lady. Going back to the foreshadowing from the Hearts and Flowers ball, there’s some irony here- there, Eloise gets offended because the man implies that she’s Not Like Other Girls. Here, that is used against her. Theo thinks Eloise should act a certain way because she’s rebellious, but when he dismisses her as a prude, he once again reveals the superficiality of his politics when it comes to praxis.

At the time I watched S2, I hadn’t yet read the books, but I’ve read them since, and this is very similar to a scene from TSPWL, where Eloise is trying to discuss something serious with Phillip, who is trying to kiss her instead. We don’t know yet whether that scene will make it to the show or not, since show Phillip seems to have a somewhat different storyline from the books, but it was a deliberate choice to use that as a reason for Theo to lash out at Eloise in the show, and I think it’s actually about Eloise’s growth. In the similar scene in the book, she calls Phillip out for this behavior while in the show Eloise just cries. Somewhere between age 18 and 28, she won’t take it, even from men she likes, which is, frankly pretty realistic. Even the most radical feminists sometimes take BS from the “radical” first boyfriends they date as teenagers. Eloise has a realistic mix of strength and vulnerability, and Theo hit a vulnerable spot for her. She’s a feminist, but she has very little real world experience with relationships between men and women outside of her brothers, and Theo is a valuable storyline to create that experience, so that when she is ready (hopefully 10 years on, I’m team time jump Eloise), she’ll have the combination of patience and discernment necessary to find and keep the right person for her.

When it comes to Sir Phillip specifically, Eloise is interested in his words first. They write letters back and forth, they never meet in person before Phillip proposes, so we know physical attraction has nothing to do with it. When she runs off to meet him she’s partially there to assess his personality. See how he actually acts. And he’s not perfect. But even as flawed characters they ultimately compliment rather than clash. In the books we know she had been courted before and turns down multiple proposals, so she had enough experiences with men to know where she stands. Eloise was never going to settle for the first man who liked her, or even the first man she thought she might like, and in fact, so many happily married women have that story of “wow, if I had married the guy I was with at 18 it would be a disaster.” Eloise is getting that with Theo.

Because imagine Theo and Eloise long term. Imagine their verbal sparring when they’re fully on Theo’s turf, with Eloise as his wife. His condescension would get old so fast with Theo always having the upper hand. Eloise likes the buzz and mental stimulation of their banter, but ultimately she’s a woman who likes to be right, and likes to feel like she’s being heard and respected. Theo likes the novelty of a woman like Eloise, but prefers when he’s in the teachable position- giving her books to read, taking her to rallies, etc- and not when her needs don’t line up with his desires.

I won’t claim to know how they’re going to do Phillip in the show for Eloise’s season, other than what we all know the changes they’ve already made to his backstory with Marina and the twins. But I do think counting him out already by claiming Theo is “perfect” for Eloise is a pretty shallow read on what’s been seen and what’s still possible for her.

[bedrock-to-buildheight]

you got good ass takes on minos and sisyphus hows The Lady and the Tiger by tmbg as a those two guys type of song ? I need peer review on my song associations lol. also do you have any songs you associate with any ultrakill characters ?

It's a very interesting and spicy song for those two, cause in this song, Minos' opinions is represented by the tiger, the more dangerous choice. I like it!

As for my songs for the blorbos, OH BOI YOU UNLOCKED AN UNSKIPPABLE CUTSCENE

Below is a bunch of songs and who they're for. Some even has explanation

Gabriel

This Is Love by Air Traffic Controller - damn near a gabv1el anthem. A homoerotic AND homicidal lovesong. Literally the third line is 'I'm an idiot for thinking this was anything but blood'

Dear Wormwood by The Oh Hellos - Gabriel to the Council

Kaiserion by Ghost - same vibe as above, with more anti-christianity vibes

Bitter Water by The Old Hellos - Minos/Gabe, in an anticipatory grief, doomed yaoi kind of way

V1

Would That I by Hozier - highly specific Gabv1el with Minos/Gabe former relationship

Stars from Les Mis (Phillip Quast version)

V2

The Plague by the mountain goats - imo V1 was never made to give much of a shit aboyt humans. It's almost vindictively happy at seeing humanity's hubris catching up to them at last

The Toy Soldier's Song by The Mechanisms (Gunpowder Tim vs The Moon Kaiser) - loyalty is a lot to ask of a weapon, the song

Want You Gone from Portal 2 and Still Alive from Portal

Cry for Judas by the mountain goats - 'But I am just a broken machine, and I do things that I don't really mean'

A Sadness Runs Through Him by The Hoosiers - Gabriel/V2. The story of guard dogs who had bad owners

Minos

Sisyphus

Cirice by Ghost - Minos/Gabe that started out as Minos manipulating Gabe into siding with him a la Drowning Man (fic)

The Music of The Night from The Phantom of The Opera - slow, powerful and seductive. If charisma itself is a song

Ferryman by Shayfer James - despite the name, this is a Minos song. There's a certain indifference to shitty lovers and the insignificance of individual humans that fits him well

Run to You by Pentatonix - Minos/Sisyphus post-Prime. The specific amv scene I have in mind is 'Minos finds him bleeding out after fighting V1 and they share a few moments. Sisyphus realizes that maybe, he did regret one thing'

For the Departed by Shayfer James- Minos/Sisyphus, depicting their final moments before Gabriel arrives in Greed

Villainous Thing by Shayfer James - Sisyphus to Gabriel. An understanding between people who care about Doing Right, but hold too much anger to take the respectable route. Plus a bit of flirting <3

Ferryman

The Moon Will Sing by The Crane Wives - Ferrygabe resentment song <33 They fucking hate what he made them into

Obsessed With You by The Orion Experience - self explanatory

Others

Body by Mother Mother - self explanatory 2. That one piece of unadded ferryman lore hakita dropped is the gift that keeps on giving

Cupid by Fifty Fifty - lmao

Bury My Mother Pale and Slight by Amalgemotion - Virtues song. The chorus is directly calling to Gabriel as 'the knight' who will bring them freedom. I like to think that 'the king' mentioned here is God

For Narmer from Warframe- Sisyphean Insurrectionists

Like The Dawn by The Oh Hellos- Hell/Lucifer

Nothing Changes from Hadestown - The Council

Living in The Light by Ridiculon - The Council

[be-curious-and-not-judgemental]

Another installment of the reluctant male re-watch.

We completed episode 4 and 5. There was more scoffing, a few chuckles and less questions. He seems to be fully engaged. Which is a good thing as the Reluctant Male is leaving on Friday for work in another country for 6 weeks. So we've only got a few days to get through the next few episodes. Fingers crossed we can get the last three episodes in.

Observations in no particular order:

1) "I'm not a huge fan of this couple, she keeps talking him into marrying her sister when he has admitted he wants no such thing. It feels repetitive. " I sort of understand where he's coming from. They have great chemistry but it does tend to drag out. Daphne and Simon were married by episode 5 and struggled after whereas Kanthony are in will they/won't they purgatory. But man, good chemistry!

2) "I don't really get the problem with Eloise. Is she planning to marry this guy and if that happens, what will happen to her?" I explain that she marries someone else and I DO spoil it and point out Phillip Crane which confused him majorly as Marina is still married to him. "How are they gonna pull that one off? So this Theo guy and her don't do anything? And why is Penelope watching?"

3) "this guy has to be bi cuz they give him moments of him talking and looking at guys but then he's all out having sex with every woman he meets. He seems pretty free, he's like the anti-Anthony." Which is a great observation about Benedict (I'm kind of blown away at his views sometimes, he's usually pretty clueless in life...)

4)"I like the olive joke. That's the first time he seems to be relaxed and making jokes." I then reminded him of the farm joke and taking his stick out which he replied that he wished Colin was always like that, which I totally agree. He seems more like book-Colin in those moments.

5) "ouch, that was harsh! Poor Colin. Guy seems out of touch... and sort of not part of the show or something. And you say his storyline is season 3? I don't know... how do you turn his character from this guy to like in love with Penelope cuz right now he seems stuck on the other girl." And with this statement, I tried warming him up to Colin and Penelope's upcoming season but so far, he doesn't see it. I shudder to think what he'll say after Colin's final remark about Penelope in the last episode. Breaking my Polin heart he doesn't see the potential... yet.

6) "I like Daphne more this season. Way more."

7) "the Featheringtons are a mess! I like their funny moments but what a disaster family!"

I point blank asked him for his favourite characters. Right off the bat, Portia is mentioned. As well as Lady Bridgerton (which consider me shocked cuz he never really mentions her while we watch). He claims he likes the artist brother the best. He is apparently not a fan of Anthony or Lady Danbury (who he did like in the beginning). He thinks the actress who plays Kate is hot, 🙄such a guy thing to say but also, he's not wrong.

[irontrashglitter]

eloise and penelope better be lesbian together in the next season because i would rather die than see colin control and abuse penelope and phillip control, neglect and abuse his kids

[missbrunettebarbie]

The only way Phillip Crane makes sense is that Eloise was planning to be Boston Married and Phillip was a rebound. (That's, frankly, the only interesting romance JQ ever wrote.)

I am so utterly repulsed by Phillip Crane I can't stomach him for even one second. So sadly, for me, there is no way Phillip/Eloise could remotely work

[ispeaktheyburn]

One of the most irritating things about Marinas depression storyline is that the whole point of it is just to add to Philips trauma and pain. Like her children don’t even miss her. I feel like JQ just wanted a way to show Eloise being a good mother and having the children accept her fairly quickly without having to write about their grief over their mother. Like Marina is painted out to be this bad mother who doesn’t pay attention to her kids and Eloise is the sunshine who brings them the first hint of maternal affection they have ever gotten. I think even in the epilogue Amanda mentions something like Eloise being a better number.

But also knowing people with clinical depression it’s not how people act. In general (of course there are exceptions) they don’t spend every waking moment in bed. Unless you know you can’t tell they have depression. And it really wasn’t too hard for JQ to treat Marina depression with compassion but still be period appropriate. But instead we aren’t meant to care about Marina, just how it affected Philip. Until Eloise comes along and she is happy so of course she fixes Philips misery. I mean Eloise literally witnessed her father die but she has no problems?? Just because she talked about it with her mother.

I can't think of anything to add to this. Just...yes

[pensbridgrton]

why don’t you like phillip? (full disclosure i’ve only seen the show and read summaries of the books, historicals are always a little dense for me to read, i’m just curious!)

so to start - i totally respect that there are PLENTY of people who do like him and love phillip/eloise and to be fair, TSPWL isn’t even my least favorite book because there are things in that book i do love

so overall, it’s just personal things that didn’t vibe with me that might vibe with you so i do recommend making your own decisions.

but mainly:

By the point I was reading this book, I was sick of the daddy issues. (Also fun fact, this was the last book I read before starting the tv show. I binge-read (and reread) the first five books in like three days haha.)

Phillip constantly thinks of Marina and her depression/suicide in TERRIBLE ways, and yes I get that it’s a historical and whatnot, but JQ does a terrible job with describing it and since it’s mostly from Phillip’s POV when it does come up, it just makes Phillip look horrible.

Phillip just makes Eloise into this... muted version of herself. Again, I get that it’s a period piece and stuff, but Eloise turns into Violet in this book (and we never really get more of her in any other books after to rectify this) and it’s really unsettling and makes me sad because while book!Eloise is nowhere near as outgoing and ambitious as tv!Eloise, it just felt... off. (Which is why, while I can respect the direction of the books, it does not feel right for tv!Eloise and how they’ve written her.)

Phillip neglects his kids. He loves them, sure, and is mainly terrified of his own body/masculinity (which I do think is an interesting character trait) but I never like a hero who has to be taught by a woman how to be kind and care for others/kids - especially his own.

Not to mention he gets mad at Eloise for wanting to TALK about their FEELINGS because he thinks that since they’re banging regularly that must mean they have a happy marriage.

Again... the book does a decent job resolving most of these issues... I just didn’t like how they came up in the first place.

I like romances to be about two people who make each other better versions of themselves, and while I think Phillip grew in this book, I don’t Eloise did (or at least not in ways that felt right to me, personally) and I hate that.

[torchwood-99]

You can see why so many Philoise fans hate show Eloise and basically want her arc to just be people shutting her down, making her feel bad about herself, telling her why she should be quiet and be grateful for getting to live the pretty princess life, because they're coming from a place of loving a book where Eloise's entire existence revolves around making Phillip happy and making Phillip feel good about himself.

Show Eloise, who wants things, who speaks up when she's unhappy, who has dreams beyond serving to her husband's every needs, is the exact opposite of that. They know they're gonna need to see her spirit crushed if they want to see Philoise happen on screen.

[bookish-cravings]

Eloise should either:

End up alone as a successful novelist who travels the world

Be a lesbian and a successful novelist who travels the world and gets with beautiful women from the countries she visits

Be a lesbian and a successful novelist who travels the world with a committed lesbian lover

Be married to Theo Sharpe and a successful novelist who travels the world with him

I’ll take anything as long as it’s not her book ending

[shiveringsands]

Am I the only one that wants Eloise and Marina to get together?

I haven't read Eloise's book and only know general spoilers, but couldn't the TV show substitute Marina into the story and still follow the general plot of the book?

I think part of it is I really don't want Marina to be killed off and partly i'm not really vibing TV Sir Philip for Eloise. But also...I'm kinda digging Eloise and Marina being in love and doing their own thing.

[thekatebridgerton]

Hello, I was reading a theory that scared me a little. This theory said that the couples would change and the love plot between classes would be Eloise and Theo. They also said they would develop another original story for Benedict. Even so, the presence of Phillip and various elements of Eloise's story would make no sense if that were true. Unless they decided to change their mind midway

You know when I see theories like that I like to wonder that if things were so, then why did the show bother introducing Phillip in s1 at all?

Callam is still not confirmed for s2 and Bridgerton has already begun filming.

In s1 we got to meet two love interests who were not the main focus of the season: Phillip and Penelope. The two of them, out of seven love interests outside of Simon that the show could have introduced. 

And I get showing Penelope. Because she needs to be on screen since she’s supposed to be a part of the Bridgerton circle singe long before Colin fell for her. And also because of LW. 

That still doesn’t explain why we got to see Phillip in S1.

Think about it, the show could have introduced any of the other main love interests in the same way they did Phillip. Just a stranger, loosely connected to one of the plotlines for a few minutes and then disappearing in the end. We could have been shown a maid running errands in London with a plotline connected to Daphne’s maid, and we could have seen Sophie. 

We could have seen one of the many bachelors Simon met in his days as a rake and there could have been a scene of Michael, saying a line or two about the benefits of rakedom while Simon contemplates his love for Daphne. We could have seen Lady Danbury and Simon visit her beloved but neglected grandson Gareth, to remind Simon of why he doesn’t want to be a bad father. We could have even seen a short scene of Lady Abernathy with a very young Lucy, talking to Daphne about how much she loves her two children and wishes the duchess the same joy. 

Instead we get Phillip.

The show, goes out of its way to stress how much of a good man Phillip is, once in s1 by taking care of his brother’s pregnant paramour. And then in s2 by being the friendliest stranger Colin could have met in the house of an ex. 

And I think that the reason we got to see Phillip and not any of the other love interests. Is exactly because Phillip and Eloise are not ready to fall inlove. He’s too married and she’s too much against marriage for them to work out. Their love story is supposed to be about two people who fell inlove at exactly the right time. Because both wanted to love each other. In the sense that Eloise was finally ready to fall inlove and get married at the exact moment that Phillip was ready to move on and find love again. 

I think that the show is going to make Phillip and Eloise story all about right people wrong time kind of soulmates. You know those couples that even if they had gotten a chance to meet in highschool or in college they wouldn’t have fallen inlove because they were different people and they were not looking for love. But then once they are ready to find love, they do meet their soulmate, because it was meant to be at exactly that point in their lives, and not a minute before. 

I don’t know about you, but that’s my theory.

 With the tea.