#anti Miluca fans

[phoenixwitch13]

Michael Guerin Deserves Better Than This Shit

I love both Michael and Alex, and I especially love Malex. I have my crack ships pairing them with other people, but there's no other ship I want more in canon than Malex. That being said, I get really annoyed with Alex stans (I use the word stans instead of fans because they are usually crazy fans who only love Alex and low key seem to hate Michael) who act like Michael is some monster for having dated Maria and like Alex should have been furious with him. Now, I hate Miluca as a ship and Maria DeLuca as a character, so it's not about liking the ship as one of my crack pairings. No, it's all about the fact that for ten years, Alex walked away from Michael. For ten years, Alex broke Michael's heart (I know he had his reasons for his actions and I understand them, but this is still what happened). And for a matter of weeks, Michael dates someone else (because he was not actually with Maria in canon for more than a few weeks and it was, as she said, on a non-exclusive trial basis), and suddenly he's some big bad monster who hurt Alex beyond repair? Sorry, but no. He doesn't deserve to be hated for that. Not when you don't dislike Alex for leaving him over and over again for a decade. You know who Alex should be angry at, though? Maria. He has no right to be angry with Michael for not believing he would stay this time and for trying to move on with someone else (not saying he can't feel hurt, but he doesn't have a right to be angry with Michael the way some stans wanted him to be). But he can be angry with Maria for getting together with Michael after finding out about him being in love with him when she claims to be Alex's best friend. Alex can be angry with Maria all he wants because she was a crappy friend, but being angry with Michael for dating someone else, no matter who that person was, would only make him look like an ass, which is probably why he had no anger toward Michael on the show. The people who think he should be angry with Michael look like hypocrites, especially since many of them happily also ship Alex with Forrest or Kyle or sometimes even Max, Michael's brother. So, what? Only Alex is allowed to be happy with someone else when the love of his life leaves him? Michael just has to suffer? This post is not supposed to be anti Alex. I love him and don't actually think he did anything wrong in canon. What I'm calling out is the behavior of his stans, which is really not cool. Michael doesn't deserve that bullshit, and I think if Alex was a real person, he'd be pissed at anyone who thought Michael deserved for him to be angry with him and to suffer the way some fic writers try to make him.

Also, if you disagree, know you won't change my mind on this, so don't waste your time typing something out to rant at me, okay? I'll probably just delete your reply without finishing reading it. Maria DeLuca stans DNI. Miluca stans DNI. Crazy Alex stans who hate Michael even though that means Alex would hate you, DNI.

[manes24]

Malex fans are too loud, and apparently that is why Malex is endgame 🤣🤣🤣 It couldn’t possibly be because the narrative of the entire show showcases Malex as being the ultimate relationship for Michael and Alex. Ever since the pilot Malex has been written to be the couple for Alex and Michael. It’s easy to blame the loud Malex fans but are you forgetting that Mr Michael Vlamis is the biggest fan of Malex out of all of us. Bullying Malex fans is easy, but it’s funny that these same fans have nothing to say about Vlamis stanning Malex and never giving Miluca his time when their characters were together. It’s like when they hate and bully on Tyler Blackburn and his fans, but have nothing to say about their own favourites (Trevino, Vlamis, Hemmens) still championing and being good mates with Tyler. It’s all soooo fake.

[cakebeam]

[lovecolibri]

M*luca shippers were so pressed about Vlamis especially last season when he wouldn't promote their ship even when they were together on screen, and they had a full meltdown after Tyler told everyone he wants Malex together. People are even annoyed with Jeanine for hyping Malex more than her own ship. 🤷 It's weird. It's not like RNM is the Malex show. And Tarlos pretty much gets crumbs every few episodes. Bless the actors for constantly doing the most. Imagine being annoyed about it when it's honestly so easy to avoid.

Yeah, I remember someone asking Vlambase about m*luca merch and that got shut down really quick. And as for Jeanine? Why would she NEED to hype her ship? We all know they are going to end up together, so fans are content to go on the journey, and unless their ship starts getting super shitty storylines, nothing is going to change. But Malex? Even if we had the promise that they were endgame, the writing so far has been soooo traumatic for them and we had to wade through that awful, forced m*luca nightmare that did nothing but harm to the characterization of everyone involved, and then the way f*rlex was wedged in at the end of season 2 during what should have been a stepping off point for Malex, fans (and Tyler and Vlamis) are right to be frustrated! Especially after all the hype around how beautiful those first few episodes were for Malex and how many fans and critics reacted and the importance of telling a story like the first few episodes set up (only to veer wildly off that course. No present day Malex kiss since 2019 IN EPISODE 1x03, barring that episode we don't speak of that doesn't count as Malex kisses), I don't blame Tyler and Vlamis for being vocal about what they want to see for their characters. Specifically, a HAPPY relationship taking place on screen, and not at the last possible moment before the show ends.

It's actually refreshing to see actors so excited about their ships and fighting so hard to tell stories that SHOULD be normal and common place. I CANNOT forget how much everyone was commenting on the soft little boyfriend things Tarlos was always doing in the background, or just casually during a group scene where they and their actions weren't the focus, and how shocking it was to find out they had to FIGHT to hold hands in a scene (where of course Carlos would be offering support to his boyfriend) because the "focus" was on Owen. Like, they can't act like boyfriends if the scene isn't specifically about their relationship?! Ridiculous.

Here's to the actors that fight for quality content, for what they think makes sense for their characters, and for what they KNOW fans want to see and what is important yet lacking in tv. They are all working so hard and it really shows.

[lucyfrostblade]

you guys can hate a ship without spending an inordinate amount of time hating a Black woman character for existing 

[tsumisgarden]

The most realistic thing about this show is definitely how the kindest people in it are the ones being used by the people around them

And the most unrealistic thing is how anyone would choose Max Evans or Maria Deluca over them

[ripmalex]

okay so riddle me this...what was the point of M*luca dating then if Maria was just going to break up with him casually and Michael doesn’t even want to break up.  When it came to Alex and his relationship, Michael had the same type of development he could’ve had if he was single and there were definitely some times that he acted like he wasn't even in a relationship when he was around Alex. It all just seems like an unnecessary roadblock to keep Malex apart for a bit longer.

[pastelwitchling]

(1/2)Maybe its just my terrible secondhand embarrassment but Vlamis panders SO much! Ppl say that he loves Malex but I kinda think he would say the exact same things about Miluca if that was the bigger fanbase. I love your Forlex stories since I'm so over Guerin after this season, where he basically had his cake and ate it too, specifically embodied in that threesome. I just rewatched 2x06 and yup, still hate it, but noticed that the focus was really on Malex, they kissed much more than Miluca.

(2/2) Also, maybe I'm delusional but it seems to me that CAM was maybe the only person who wanted the 3some? Heather promoted it as it was her ep & she had no choice, but neither TB nor MV ever said anything about it. R&V went AWOL after the reception and if Hollier is really a die-hard romantic, I doubt he liked this OOC anthithesis of romance scene. But CAM who "hates" jealousy, a very human emotion, wanted to "subvert" triangles so much she went all the way to 3some, no matter how unrealistic

*

Okay. I’ve gotten quite a few angry messages in my inbox (did something big just happen, or...?), and I’m not humoring anything, so here we go.

Vlamis has said, time and time again, how much he loves acting with Tyler, even when Guerin was dating Maria. Even when it was his job to promote They-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. He has talked in great length, not just about malex as a couple and teasing about how handsome Tyler is (which — touché), but how much emotion he can gather from Tyler’s eyes, how much he feels himself, how easy it is to feel and react and be Guerin, who wants to fall into Alex’s arms but feels like he can’t.

I’ve said this time and time again, and I won’t say it another hundred times, so if anyone’s listening, please pay attention now: Vlamis is allowed to ship who he wants, he’s allowed to prefer whichever couple he wants, he’s allowed to prefer acting with whoever he wants. The actor is not the character. As you’ve just apparently watched 2x06, I can see where that anger can be misplaced, and I can also see the need to vent, but please be wary not to drag the actor into it.

Not to mention, as malex fans, we’ve been screwed over time and time again, the gay character mistreated and dismissed. Vlamis’s blatant love for malex and Tyler has gotten some of us through some of the darkest malex moments. Why? Because I know that, beyond CAM’s writing, the actors both want them together. The fact that it’s Vlamis who fawns over them makes it better because it’s typically Guerin most people (myself included) are angry with for not showing Alex enough love and care. Meanwhile, that’s all Vlamis shows them. It’s a comfort to me, and others I’ve seen.

I appreciate that you’re enjoying the forlex fics, I do, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to sit here and silently listen to people getting angry at Vlamis again for some other ridiculous standard he hasn’t met. I’ve seen too many people on this site get angry at him for one reason or another, firstly for being a fan of the ship, and I detest it. I’m a fan of the show just like anyone else, and I can’t believe how lucky we were with someone like Vlamis, who at least shows us that if it was his way, he’d have malex back together in the most epic, cosmic way. It’s just a shame that instead of appreciating that, others seem to want to get angry at him for his character’s actions.

[signoraviolettavalery]

I think what bothers me about the whole Alex and Maria love triangle situation is that...friends are supposed to be there to catch you if you fall. 

Like, yes, Alex has messed up, and walked away (for understandable reasons that have nothing to do with Michael not being good enough for him), and kept their relationship a secret (because trauma). And so of course Maria doesn’t know the full story, because he didn’t tell her. But she knew enough to have been able to act differently. 

She knows Michael is the guy that Alex would have stayed in Roswell for. Roswell, the place he hates. Roswell, the place where his abusive father lives (and if they’ve really been friends since they were kids, she has to have known at least some of what was happening; there’s no way Alex could have hidden all the bruises, all the misery, all the time). She also used the words “in love” when she said “please tell me you’re in love with Wyatt Long [and not Michael Guerin].” She also knows Alex has hope about the future of this relationship because she felt it, since supposedly she’s psychic. 

And then Michael tells her “it’s over, it’s been over.” Which is objectively true; they’re not in a relationship. Except that days ago she literally felt Alex’s hope and saw the heartbreak on his face. In that situation, a friend, a good friend, would, I dunno, maybe call Alex and ask “hey you know those boy troubles you came to talk to me about, but then we went off on a tangent because i slept with a guy you’re in love with? You wanna talk about that? He says it’s over, but i felt your hope, are you okay? Can I be there for you the way you’ve been there for me with Mimi all this time?” Alternatively, a good friend might say something like, “well Alex doesn’t seem to think it’s over,” instead of, I dunno, making a joke about their museum kiss. A good friend would probably stand up for Alex and ask why Michael was being so callous about something that means so much to Alex. But she wanted to believe it’s over, so she believed it’s over. And, by her own admission in 1x13, she literally hasn’t talked to Alex since. She knows he’s hurting; she knows he’s in love with a guy for whom the relationship is apparently over, and she just, what...ghosts Alex? 

And I just keep thinking about the stark difference between Kyle, who tells Alex to go talk to Michael, who figures out they love each other and supports that, and supports Alex.Versus Maria, who also learns the truth, and doesn’t really seem to care enough to even talk to Alex about it. 

And I’m also kind of tired of the argument that, well, Maria has a lot on her plate because so does literally every character. They’re all fucked up and miserable and going through a lot, and some of them keep finding ways to be there for each other (see: Michael constantly supporting Isobel, Alex taking time to call Liz out and spend an entire afternoon with Mimi and Maria)

And, I dunno, I just keep thinking about how Alex has so few friends, and Maria told him it meant nothing and he believed her. He trusts her; he thinks of her as his family; he thinks she’ll be in his corner. And he’s going to find out that she’s not. She wasn’t there to catch him fall. 

[meneatyoghurt]

Sometimes I look at the RNM subreddit just out of curiosity. But I know it’s not the right place for me because they recently voted Max the second sexiest guy on the show.

[ladymajavader]

Thank you for giving me an ok to voice my opinion on your post! I’m tagging this anti Maria, since I’m going into detail as to why I believe Maria is a bad friend to Alex. I’ll keep strictly to the subject matter and just offer my personal view as to how Maria’s friendship with Alex comes across to fans more invested in Alex than Maria (i.e. me;) and keep it independent form any shipping discussion - while the bone of contention in their friendship was their respecitve relationships with Michael, I’m not here to debate Miluca or Malex, just what happened between Alex and Maria. You’ve laid out a very interesting to me account on how it felt to Maria fans to watch the ever mounting backlash against her relationship with Michael over the course of s1 and how this translated to labelling Maria “a bad friend” by Malex shippers - I’ll take the opportunity to offer a different perspective, from a confirmed Alex stan, as to how I came to believe Maria is a bad friend (to Alex specifically).

The show tells us that Maria and Alex are best friends. OP, you remarked yourself that they haven’t really had much contact in 10 years - it would make more sense that they were old friends, bound together by high school nostalgia, not current best friends, true - and that’s how I see it too. But the show puts in Maria’s mouth “Alex is one of my best friends” in s1. So this is the standard we are being told to judge their actions against - best friends.

You’ve mentioned “friend code” which is a shorthand in this fandom’s discussions for “a friend shouldn’t date a friend’s ex” and you posited that 1) it shouldn’t apply in this case because Maria didn’t know about Malex and 2) it’s too hard for Maria to adhere to bc she loves Michael and he loves her back. Let me break it down:

“Friend Code” Isn’t Real

At the root of “friend code” is something very simple - not hurting your friend’s feelings. Because seeing your ex with someone new is always painful, regardless of circumstances of the split (and especially painful if you’re still in love with that ex). Choosing to start a relationship with your friend’s ex hurts them doubly - they have to see the ex move on (and sometimes, like here, they can’t avoid seeing it like they might if the ex moved on with a random stranger not connected to their social circle) and they can’t even vent to their friend about it. So Maria’s choice to pursue Michael was about putting her feelings for Michael over her friendship with Alex - and that’s a valid choice she was free to make. But just by doing it she immediately and knowlingly hurt Alex.

Maria Didn’t Know

By 1x09 that’s true and any backlash that happened against Maria then was probably just butthurt Malex fans seeing a rival ship set sail. But in 1x10 she realizes herself what Michael means to Alex, that Alex is in love with him and feels hopeful about that relationship. Her choice to hook up with Michael in 1x09 had nothing to do with Alex - but her choices to kiss Michael in 1x13 and then pursue him in s2 were made with full conciousness that they were hurting Alex. That’s what her frantic “Tell me you’re in love with Wyatt Long” questions were about and her confiding to Liz - she was aware that her trying to have a relationship with Michael would hurt Alex, that she would have to choose between her friendship and her romantic relationship.

Maria Loves Michael So It’s Ok

Liz tells Maria “you can’t help who you fall for” and many have taken it as a total absolution for any choice she makes, but while she can’t help her feelings she can control her actions. She knew that in 1x10 when she gave her word to Alex that it wouldn’t happen again, however she might’ve felt about Michael. How much Miluca love each other or how much better/healthier/superior they are to Malex - has no bearing on whether Maria choosing to act on her feelings for Michael is being a bad friend to Alex. She was. She chose her happiness over Alex’s which doesn’t make her a monster - just human and a bad friend to Alex.

And her breaking her word to Alex and kissing Michael in 1x13 was just a start of a pattern of behavior which makes me perceive Maria as a bad friend. Your analysis didn’t go into s2, so let me just touch briefly upon how it exacerbated the issue from s1, without addressing any additional issues it’s thrown at the Alex&Maria friendship  (I call this section “But Alex Is Ok With It So You Should Too!”)

Season 2 tried to present a narrative that retconned Maria’s dilemma, very real and present for her from 1x10 to 1x13 - when she knew that her choice was between being a good friend to Alex and stopping any romantic relationship with Michael and between hurting Alex to further her own happiness with Michael. The show’s narrative tried to sell the notion that, since Alex was ok with it / Miluca was a good ship - then Alex wasn’t hurt by Maria’s actions. That’s just not how human emotions work. Even if Alex intelectually agreed that Maria was a better partner for Michael and even the choice he would make (which reads to Alex fans as his low self-esteem and a lot of internalized homophobia speaking), he, you know, wouldn’t be able to help his feelings at seeing the love of his life with someone else. That’s also not how cause and effect works. Maria’s actions were objectively hurtful to Alex, therefore she was a bad friend to him. If Alex forgave her - or even if he miraculously wasn’t hurt by her actions at all - that doesn’t erase her actions as a bad friend.

There are undoubtedly Maria antis out there who call her a bad friend and a lot of worse names mostly because they just hate her in general - but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t canon reasons to judge her as a bad friend. 

I’m not getting into any of the surrounding issues of whether Maria’s choice was “right” or “justified” or whatever, because they are exstraneous to judging Maria as a good or bad friend. She knowingly hurt Alex = she was a bad friend, however good and right her choice was overall. Alex was arguably a bad friend over the lost decade by presumably disappearing on her (but we only have headcannons on how it all went down), but throught season 1 & 2 all we see from him towards Maria is a good friend behavior, supporting her and in s2 putting her feelings above his own. Which makes the contrast of Maria putting her feelings and wants above her consideration for Alex, repeatedly - all the more stark. And frankly makes Alex seem like a masochist with internalized homophobia more than a good friend. 

RNM generally has an abysmal track record in friendships - characters pay lip service to it, but when push comes to shove we don’t see them acting like friends much, latest case in point in 3x07 how Rosa, Isobel and Michael didn’t spare a word/thought for their still missing presumed in danger friend Kyle. Alex and Maria’s friendship is just one of the most scrutinized examples, because the show put such a focus on it with the love triangle. Like you pointed out - with love triangles there’s supposed to be a rivarly between the two choices and by trying to give it a “mature” spin with the sides of the triangle being adult BFFs RNM managed to both flatten the love triangle drama and underuse that plot device and completely mangle a portrayal of friendship. In the example you’ve given, the Joey/Pacey/Dawson triangle - Dawson didn’t immediately meekly admit that Pacey was the better option for Joey and helped him get back together with the love of his life. That would be ridiculous there and it was ridiculous on RNM. Best friends are not somehow more mature and extra friendly by not experiencing negative emotions when the actions of their friends inescepably hurt them - however understanable, justifiable or whatnot those actions are. The maturity and test of friendship comes from HOW they deal with those ugly emotions. Except that Alex wasn’t allowed in s2 (and 3 so far) to have a single negative feeling towards Maria, which is not realistic and robbed us of a narratively satisfying portrayal of how a friendship can come back from such a blow - when the happiness of one friend means inescapable unhappiness of the other. Which could’ve been so good (and was in so many fics)! 

Personally, I think all RNM characters are quite selfish/self-absorbed people - by necessity and due to their histories and traumas and I symphatize, but that still makes them all shitty friends (with the notable exception of Kyle). Maria’s case just additionally annoys me, bc the show tried to retcon that emotional reality in s2+. Instead of making a choice between exploring her romantic feelings for Michael and preserving her friendship with Alex, Maria got to have her cake and eat it, hurt her friend with impunity and then Alex&Maria were heralded as BFF goals because they didn’t let a man tear them apart (bc Alex wasn’t allowed to have negative feelings about her actions however unrealistic that was). So I get why Maria stans don’t see the issue - because the show’s narrative says there isn’t any, Maria is a good friend; while Alex stans get increasingly frustrated & infuriated by the show, and consequently fandom, downplaying that Maria hurt Alex and instead of working it out with him, just stopped feeling understandably conflicted and guilty as soon as season 2 started because the show didn’t want to deal with messy emotions.

I don't understand why there are some (Ma|ex people from what I see) calling Maria a bad and horrible friend??? Like did I miss something????

Chiiiiiiiillllleeeee!

What a question to return back from vacation from!

Now let me preface this: this is all my own unapologetic opinion. If anyone reading this is interested in an actual discussion? I'm always down to talk. Definitely won't entertain rude comments.

For starters: Are you trying to get me yeeted from the fandom? Lol

This question has been burning in my mind for now 3 seasons worth of show. I've long avoided writing about this "bad friend" narrative because I feel like could write a full blown dissertation on this topic. Plus, people with opposing opinions have such strong reactions to people who don't agree. But! I'm finally making time to do this.

I'll try to keep this to just a miniature dissertation. I'm about to fail miserably, lol. Sorry in advance.

In short, the answer is "she betrayed Alex" *chokes hard on this lie* when in actuality, she did nothing of the sort.

Let's start with early Michael and Maria interactions shall we? We'll stick to season one only for this unnecessary hard-hitting, in-depth analysis because the people's hate levels skyrocketed after season 1 and I don't have THAT much time on my hands. We'll kinda stick to where I think it stemmed from and why it's misguided to say the least.

From the very beginning, it was obvious to me that these two have a history we haven't seen on screen prior to the show's start. We know Maria frequently kicked/-s Michael out of her bar, yet they still give off mad flirtatious vibes while they throw jabs at each other. We see that on display early on.

Okay, let's fast forward to episode 1x07. It's a pretty pivotal moment in their relationship. She'd just sent her Mom off to the facility and in walks Michael. She tells him the bar is closed but he saunters in saying "I really need you to be open" after his not so equally rough day. She tells him "they're closed" again but eventually tells him "One drink. No talking.". She rightfully breaks down and who's there for her? Michael Guerin.

That's when I noticed that the completely irrational unwarranted hatred began for Maria. Mostly because it was obvious that Malex wasn't happening and MiLuca was definitely going to be a thing.

*record scratch*

Now let me back up for a minute. Early Malex was fine-ish to me. They just became too problematic for me. I definitely prefer MiLuca but to each their own though; like whatever ship you like. I don't know why so many people attack each other over their preference. We don't HAVE to agree.

*resumes mini dissertation*

That being said, nothing about the progression of MiLuca's relationship is at the fault of Maria. People can talk about the friend code all they want, but it doesn't really apply here. Both Michael and Alex kept each other a secret for over 10 years. Even from their best friends in the world. How can friend code start to begin to apply when no one knew their relationship existed for real?

So anywho. Maria is just out here minding her own business. Getting more flirty sessions in with Guerin. While trying to deny (and failing) that's she's feeling feelings for the guy that once described as "he's got kind of hot in a sex in a truck, smells like a river, never introduce him to your mama kind of way."

But he keeps. showing. up. Especially when she needs him the most. Sounds like a recipe for an accidentally on purpose hook up and relationship to me. *shrugs*

Cue the road trip to Texas. Who wouldn't be able to resist Maria singing Alanis Morissette? I mean, I can't blame Mikey at all. But I digress.

So, they finally drunkenly hook up. Keeping up their familiar bantering claiming that this was a mistake and should never happen again. By this time we all knew it was gonna happen again. This is a CW drama after all. 🙄🙄

After you! Welcome to all the members of The Official Maria Deluca Haters Club!

Here's the actual beginning of it all. She "dared" to hook up with Michael and thus "betraying Alex". Except, she didn't. Yes, I said it. In fact, the only one who betrayed anyone would be Michael.

Michael. Deserves. This. Fandom. Heat. He's the only one that knew both sides of the truth. He knew that he had recently kissed, slept with, and reignited old flames with Alex. When Alex started ignoring him, he moved on with his friend who was ignorant that there was ever a him and Alex. Yet somehow he's always blameless and Maria catches that faction of the fandom's virtual hands?? Make it make sense.

Coming back to it, Guerin kept showing up just in general. Even though she told him she couldn't be with him because of Alex once she found out he was "Museum Guy". She did try to adhere to the friend code. Kinda hard to do, when you've already caught feelings and the object of your affection that you're trying to avoid keeps coming around. Or whenever you're in need, he's always there. Let's not forget he literally stood guard over her even after she rejected him. I mean...

*Kanye Shrug*

Alas, cue more Maria hatred. Are you seeing the pattern? Every time MiLuca became a stronger reality, the (misplaced) anger grew. All because their preferred ship was losing out to another.

Side note: Most shows have warring ships - think Stelena/Delena. This is supposed to happen but not with so much vitriol. That's the part that gets me.

In the end, all anger really should be pointed at Mikey, but a lot of folks aren't ready to discuss how he essentially pitted two friends against each other because they both had feelings for him at completely different points in their lives.

If you're still with me, the moral of the story is simple.

No one (except maybe Michael) is in the wrong here.

Maria started developing feelings and love for a guy she's also known her whole life. Who was a fixture in her life even if in a small way for years after high school. He's the same guy who kept showing up for her when she literally needed someone to lean on. I mean, who wouldn't fall for that person?

Let's face it: She arguably had more in person interactions with Michael over the last 10 years than with her best friends Liz and Alex. Should she or even Micheal be unknowingly beholdened to the "friend code" after 10 years? Plus I never understood why Alex never told Maria of all people who "the boy from the museum" was.

I really just don't get it either. I actually really enjoyed the progression of MiLuca's relationship in season 1. It developed organically and was really believable that these two characters would get to where they got. I definitely think the execution (especially in season 2) could have been much better. I really do enjoy rival ships when properly written. Since it wasn't? A lot of things were left to be misinterpreted and left us with the state of affairs we have today.

We should have been given a Dawson/Joey/Pacey situation. They actually had the right dynamic for a more adult version of it. The execution was flawed. Which makes me sad because I love some good old fashioned love triangle drama!

Anyway thanks for coming to my MiLuca TED Talk. Even though I knew they weren't endgame, I'll always wish they had a better shot than they were given.

*end of dissertation*

[manes24]

Jesus to have to twist something so much to try and pretend Michael is still in love with Maria is absurd. Michael cares about Maria, yeah, but they are not in love, and the show has made that pretty clear, the actors have made that clear and the characters have made that pretty clear. Michael giving a shit about Maria is not him wanting to be with her. Otherwise Michael would want to be with Liz, Kyle, Max and Isobel. We have seen that he is hopeful about Alex, the whole time Michael has never fallen out of love with him. Being with Maria never changed that. Jesus, Michael created a bomb that would kill him, his family and Maria, and all because someone was threatening Alex. The show had the villain take Alex, even though Michael was dating Maria at the time. The show is being clear as day. Saying that Malex fans are the deluded ones is insanity. And even though my Malex love is pretty much dried up, Alex deserves better if you ask me, I still can see where this show is going. Alex is Michael’s exception, just like Liz is Max’s. Stay bitter, and continue to twist the narrative to suit the fact that you can’t get over Michael wanting and loving Alex. Just like Vlamis said ‘Alex is Michael’s person’. Time to get over it.

[lovecolibri]

Maria's character this season was literally written like the girl who starts out as the BFF of the main character but it's shown as the story goes on that their relationship is totally one sided. The MC makes new friends who show them that they deserve so much better and the MC finally stands up for themselves and their former BFF acts totally shocked like they have done nothing wrong. They end up being the villain that seals the MC love interest and then both the former BFF and LI are shown to be bad people and the MC ends up with someone unexpected but better for them.

And people are still surprised that fans don't like Maria, and are losing faith in Michael and Malex? Maria was literally written as a shitty teen drama villain this season (and end of last season). Especially since she is also a psychic and states out loud that she knows Alex is still in love with Michael and chose to go after him anyways. Everything about the writing for her has made her look manipulative. Her character deserved better no matter what, but especially as a woman of color this storyline for her reflects really poorly on Carina for pushing this narrative arc.

[lovecolibri]

2x01 retconning things that happened literally one episode ago gets me just

Like, season 2 was a mess and rewriting history that is still fresh in everyone's minds is a major contributor to that fact.

Plus, the fact that C*rina kept doubling down on saying that M*ria did nothing wrong going after Michael and why would Alex be upset, there is nothing to be upset about (besides his bff going back on her word and going after some she knows he's still in love with (M*ria's words, not mine) or even just the fact that he was ready to start something with the love of his life and got stood up and anyone would have feelings about that, but I digress) says a lot I think about who she is as a person.

the malex scene in 1x13 was so important, alex was again showing up for and making himself so vulnerable to michael and michael was looking at alex with such affection and tenderness and then not only did it turn into michael standing alex up, the counterpart in 2x01 completely contradicted what we actually saw on screen and involved michael saying very cruel and unfair things to alex and shoving (??) alex when he’s on crutches without his prosthesis

like…………. WHAT the fuck.  this makes NO FUCKING SENSE you can’t just LIE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ONE EPISODE BEFORE.  imagine being so defensive of legitimate audience criticism that you would literally toss your own characterization and writing in the garbage in service of the “alex is a dick/michael and maria did nothing wrong” brigade.  

[salmonthestoryteller]

Not gonna tag this aside from warning tags since apparently anti tags are showing up in the main tags now because tumblr hates us all.

This is gonna be about Maria and my struggles with the show’s character choices for her. And how interpretation goes through the eyes of the viewer, so. Using a cut line.

The thing with Maria’s character is I was a huge fan of hers up into the beginning of s2. Yes, 02x06 was part of the reason I had to step back a bit from her character, but it’s not the only reason.

I transferred from a big city to a small town about a decade ago. A decade ago, I probably would have found the choice of doing a Miluca ship when they had already set up Malex strange. After a decade in a small town, I was totally nonchalant about having Maria and Michael date when Alex is her friend. Because I’ve literally watched people just date each other's friends and exes left and right in my small town. And, yeah, it was among the things that really threw me for a loop when I first moved. But these days, I’m like - meh. Roswell isn’t really a small town in real life, but the opening of the entire show - Liz’s soliloquy - basically makes that the setting for the show. As does the way the show handles the town set up. It definitely isn’t treated as a city in the course of the show itself. Part of that is probably because the source material reads that way. That happens when the source material is about 20 years out of date.

So my experience kind of made me shrug at the whole love triangle set up, and I still liked her character a lot. I wasn’t fond of them giving her a temporary romance because I’m just not a fan of love triangles or temporary romances. They just never end well for the character who is not the predestined end game ship. YMMV, lots of people like temporary ships and I’ve even had a few that I really like despite being temporary ships. But overall, I like ships where I could see a HEA for them - and I didn’t see it at all in Miluca.

As season two progressed, even while still a fan of Maria’s character, I disliked Miluca more and more. Because I felt like it had reduced her character to a romantic foil - not even a love interest. The difference between a romantic foil and a love interest involves their interaction - or lack thereof - with other characters in any meaningful way that doesn’t end up involving their relationship. There were lots of opportunities in s2 that could have explored Maria’s relationships with other characters that were just ignored in order to pretty much forcefeed Miluca. And, in retrospect, even the end of s1 had some writing on the wall about that. Bullet point wise, here’s what I’m talking about:

Maria’s breakdown over her mother’s condition happens with Michael, despite having spent the day with both Alex and Liz, and Liz promising to return later that evening.

When Maria is upset over the faith healer being fake, it’s used to give her a one night stand with Michael.

She is drugged at the Gala. It’s used to further her romance with Michael. (And later retconned to say she didn’t realize she was drugged. Which is frankly bs - she definitely would have known.)

Her conversation with Liz in s1 starts out with talking about her mother’s necklace, but then is used to talk about her relationship with Michael.

Her conversation at the funeral with Liz in s2 is used to talk about her relationship with Michael

Her mother goes missing? Two more scenes to push her romance with Michael. Only the briefest of montage clips that shows her with Liz and Alex - despite these being the friends who are shown to love and adore her mother.

Her scene with Rosa when she finds out the truth is cut short, instead they focus on her fight and break up with Michael

Her first conversation with Alex we are actually shown is again used to talk about her relationship with Michael.

Even during her trip with Alex in search of answers about her missing mother, the conversation again turns to her relationship with Michael.

She nearly gets killed by a random antagonist? Even more random three-way with, you guessed it - Michael.

By comparison, take a look at the choices for Michael’s character. Despite also being a part of the Miluca relationship, Michael never has his deepest or most vulnerable scenes with Maria:

First time discussing being attacked by Jesse Manes? Conversation with Max

Having him discuss his childhood abuse? Conversation with Alex

Breaking down over his mother and the other aliens being blown up? Fight with Max

First real conversation about his relationship with Alex? Talks to Isobel

Breaking down over Max possibly dying? That happens after a conversation with Liz

Confess his habit of doing things to push people away? Soliloquy to an unconscious Max

Finding out Sanders knew his mother? Michael calls Alex.

This is why I say Maria is not even treated as a love interest to Michael by the writers. Not one of her big moments are allowed to be shared with anyone else the moment the writing begins to put her with Michael, and almost all of her conversations start to veer towards discussing that relationship regardless of what else is going on. Her fight with Liz is one of the only times in early s2 where she is allowed to have a conversation that does not involve Michael in some way. That’s what you do with a temporary love foil. Why would you do this to someone who’s one of your main recurring characters?

When they couldn’t even give her a scene focused just on her mother or friendship with Alex, or a full scene for her reconciliation with Liz after their fight, I was already growing discontent. Then 02x06 happened, and well, everyone knows my opinion on that so I won’t go into detail. I’ll fully admit my experience both as a woman and as a lesbian colors my view of that particular fandom controversy. I respect that others do not share my experience, and it doesn’t hit them the way it does to me. But it definitely was a huge blow in how I felt about Maria’s character.

When the new storyline with her visions came up, and her grandmother being an experiment of Caulfield, I thought for sure this would let me move past 02x06, and get back into liking her character. It hasn’t. I’d hoped s3 would change that. But if anything it’s made me dislike her character even more. And that, again, comes back to viewing the story through the lens of personal experience. I was a caretaker to someone who tended to argue about doing things for their health. Taking their meds, not eating certain foods, doing their exercises; not doing things to set back their recovery after a surgery were all things I had to argue with them about in an attempt to get them to take better care of themself. This experience was part of the very reason I was such a fan of s1 Maria, because it felt like she was a character who experienced this same thing. I was especially glad the writers included her frustration with her mother calling Liz “Rosa”, and the shared moment of grief she had with Liz afterwards. It was extremely fulfilling to see a plot that didn’t condemn someone in this situation for feeling frustration and grief.

Which is exactly what makes Maria’s behavior in s2 and s3 so terrible for me. Because I cannot view someone who would behave that way, especially someone who should definitely understand what they are putting their friends and family through, in a positive light. She’s hurting the people who care about her and not only does she not express a single regret about it - she isn’t called on it by those around her.

Liz lectured Max about being irresponsible for his health in s2. Kyle lectured Max on his health this season. Isobel and Michael have a full blown argument with him about it. Steph lectured Kyle on his actions affecting other people when he stole the equipment. Kyle lectured Liz about the risks he was taking with his career to help her.

There is absolutely no reason her character should be treated with “kid gloves” by comparison. Where is Isobel screaming at her for risking her brother’s life? Where is her hesitation when Kyle mentions if this goes south it will ruin his career? Why does her character never get harsh lectures or screamed at for her behavior, when every other character does?

I’ve seen this treatment of female characters before. The “can do no wrong in others eyes” self-righteous hypocrite who everyone thinks is heroic. And I’ve hated every one. It’s often what they do with main female characters, in fact. Which is why I almost always hate the main female characters.

I get that others don’t have my experience and don’t view it through my lens. I know lots of people who adore those characters who I dislike. I just hate that a character who started as someone I felt a lot of empathy with, has been transformed by the writing into exactly the kind of character I can’t stand.

[bitch-ass-aliens]

i truly do not understand most malex stans at all. they're fucking winning, malex is canon and going strong but yet they feel so threatened by miluca despite all their totally not motivated by racism rants on how these two are wrong and toxic and never should have happened that they feel the need to make posts foaming at the mouth at the idea that some miluca shippers saw the maria/michael scene in the finale and were happy about it?

Ugh, I'm sorry you had to deal with that, anon. My block- and black- lists are extensive at this point, so I've been fortunate enough to not see any of that though it certainly doesn't surprise me it exists. Some people just can't enjoy something without shitting on something else, like their favorite character/ship/show has to be BETTER than another one or it doesn't count or something. And god forbid the people enjoy that Other Thing. It really sucks. As both a multishipper and "ship and let ship" person, it hurts my heart when I see this kind attitude, and that's before we get into the misogynoir of this particular anti-camp. It's frustrating, and I hate that I have to tag sets like this with an anti tag even though I don't actually consider it to be anti anything. But I don't want to accidentally lean into that culture and make other aggrieved fans feel worse, so making it easy to blacklist felt like the best option.

And I don't know that I have any good advice for you, anon. I deal with it by blocking/blacklisting extensively and taking comfort in knowing that the show hasn't forgotten how much these characters mean to each other, so the fans that hate it are just going to keep suffering while I'm enjoying myself. But I know that doesn't work for everyone. All I can say is that I definitely sympathize with the frustration over people being assholes about it. <3