#and well. he's been leaked for S5 so :)))

[shadow0-1]

Alt pose for my Very Real Season 4 Leak from a while back

[hurlingdown]

Please 🍶 anon. I’m a married man 👉💍

Though that does give me so many good ideas..

Pretending to be Muzan’s husband, a slayer finding you both in the cities so you have to press him against the wall and kiss him breathless to keep undercover. One thing leads to another and you’re fucking him in both his female and male form. He is humiliated with the noises he’s making and the way his body is trembling in your hold, he’s almost tempted to kill you.. but then you give him the most earth shattering orgasm and suddenly you’re his right hand man. Fucking him in every room of the infinity castle, sucking him off against the tree in the middle of an abandoned path, eating him out bent over against a well in the middle of a town during the night.

He even slips up and calls you his husband to one of the upper moons.

Toji getting married for money.. unhappy but not on the streets. His fat, rich husband dragging him to a fancy party - he’s bored out of his mind but he’ll do anything for a bag, and then he feels eyes on the back of his head - a cursed spirit under the guise of a tall, handsome businessman, watching him with burning insatiable need.

Toji’s done a lot of fucked up things for money, but none of them felt this good. Back arching as the curse fucks him deep and hard, his stupid husband calling his name as he gets fucked in the bathroom stall. Another fat wad of cash shoved between his tits to answer him, calling out that he’s fine and he’ll be out in a minute as your second set of hands begins to stroke and prod at his already stuffed hole.

Maybe big bad husband Crocodile finding no other option to discipline Buggy, calling you in - his prized bodyguard - to fuck some manners into the clown. Grabbing a hold of his bottom half as Mihawk grabs his head, forcing him to look as you and Crocodile kiss atop his decapitated body, your cock sinking inside him slowly.

Or even being Caesar Clowns ‘Work husband’ - a title he gave you and pretended everyone else gave it to you and he was disgusted by the prospect, though he never once stopped using it - you’re his assistant, bringing him snacks and drinks, getting files and viles.

One day bringing him a magenta vile labelled ‘dangerous’ ‘do not drink’ ‘do not inhale’, you’re oh so careful with this stupid little bottle when you’re tripped - Caesars tendril of smoke whisping back into his cloud coat. But instead of the vile landing on you like he had planned, it lands straight into his big mouth, draining the contents as his face turns bright red. Not even a minute later he’s leaking and begging you on his hands and knees that he needs your babies in him, he needs your dick inside of him and for you to breed him like livestock. Fucking little creep was trying to roofie you, well now you had all the means for some revenge.

Anyway, the bunny Zoro fic was fucking delicious. I need that bunny boy to come back whining for reader to cuddle and snuggle and fuck him stupid again.

Love you Hurlers.

- 🐉

Btw, have you watched My Hero? I have been trying to find someone to talk about All Might with. The way they have him in this newest episode has my dick drippinggg 😫😫

MUZAN AND TOJI??? WHAT A GOOD DAY TO BE ALIVE. just finished reading another banger thirst in my inbox and then i'm placed face to face with this. i seriously love you all.

no kidding. sugar baby toji is the singular best take on his character in the world of fanfics, and reader being a curse fits so well, i'm in awe. and caesar clown and aphrodisiacs mix so well, holy fucking shit. i'm going to be super busy after this month ends.

and yeah, i've watched mha. :) i'm not caught up with the latest two seasons, but i'm familiar with the lore up to s5. go ahead and rant about all might!!! thank you for the obscenely delicious thirsts!!!

[teambyler]

Potential leak that Will recognized Brenner? And casting call for a young Will in *1979*??

The evidence that Will might have latent powers keeps accumulating. I just saw this post, which includes this pic that was apparently grabbed from a script on 8flix for 4x8 ("Papa"). Apparently, Netflix cracked down on it, and it contains a note that Will recognizes Brenner when they find him and El in the desert:

And of course there's the confirmation that they are trying to cast a young Will, Mike, and Jonathan from when Will was eight. Will was born on March 22, 1971. He was eight years old when the sh*t went down at Hawkins Lab in late 1979, when El sent One to the Upside Down.

Is it possible that Will somehow was another kid at the lab at some point?

This is not the first time it's been suggested that Will might have untapped powers. For SOME reason, he was targeted in s1. For SOME reason, he survived. We also know that Vecna has been seeking people with powers to try to claim their powers. We know from Eight that there are other powers besides telekinesis. We know that Will has "true sight" and can sense Vecna.

It was also never explained to us how El recognized Will in s1:

We know that the Upside Down seems "frozen" (or at least has a copy) of the real Hawkins from the night Will disappeared. Why is that?

And it is established in the show that people with powers can have buried traumatic memories. (See El in s4.) So Will might have memories he has blocked as well.

When Will recovered in the hospital in s1, he was strangely serene and asked Jonathan if his hand was okay, suggesting he didn't remember his time in the Upside Down at all. And the s5 preview shows we will see his REPRESSED memories of his time in the Upside Down.

AND the rumored title of episode 4, which it is rumored is the episode featuring a young Will, Mike and Jonathan in 1979, is titled The Sorcerer?

And we've heard from the Duffers that Will's "emotional journey" will be core to s5. This show has established that the development of one's powers comes from an internal process, an emotional place. Eight and One both told El to tap into a memory that makes her angry. But in 4x7, we learn that El remembering LOVE from her mother made her overpower One.

So Will's emotional journey of coming out, where the Duffers described him as being used to being the quiet one who's saved, that he comes into his own, "not just his sexuality" (e.g. his love, perhaps for Mike), but also "becomes a young man," could manifest... supernaturally.

When there's smoke, there's fire.

Will we be talking about Will the Sorcerer?

-teambyler

[smalltownrobin]

I think I've reached the truest state of delusion

So Maya posted this video on her instagram with no audio but it looks an awful lot like she's rehearsing lines and seems to be acting kinda Robin-like

But what I've just noticed is important is that she's using a dental floss

Which happens to be what appears to be the exact same dental floss that was included in one of the last bts photo dumps

The photo of the pack of floss was included in the photo dump that came after THIS content of Maya and Joe on set possibly outside the radio station

(it was literally in the same post as the Steve photo)

Now we know that we've seen Robin taking care of her dental hygiene before (oh I sound so crazy please stick with me), which was before the pep rally when she was fretting over her appearance for Vickie

So theoretically IF that video is in fact her rehearsing for a s5 scene, there's a strong chance it could have been filmed around the time of those stobin bts dumps, and Robin is having another ramble to Steve about seeing Vickie while she's making herself desirable presentable

It would also make sense because THIS FIT with the leather jacket and the belt and the fucking blue hair bow (which she pointedly seems to change into before Steve changes out of his first outfit) really looks like she's dressing to impress

BUT WAIT I'M NOT DONE YET

So let's say Robin really is dressing up and scrubbing up because she's going to meet up with Vickie. WHY then does she end up running round town going to barns with Erica Sinclair and shady labs with Mike Wheeler?? Or whatever tf she's doing with Will?? No Vickie in sight as far as we know??

Well let me remind you of this leak we got back in february (coincidentally the same day we got the pics of rovickie filming at the hospital but that's not really relevant)

So obviously this may not be true, but it's plausible from what we know about Robin's anxiety

Now this could also be incorrect, but at the beginning of the video, it looks like she could be saying "like the dream I'm having [floss] you never know"

Something we know about Vecna is that he can give people vivid nightmares, as he gave them to Max and his other victims in s4, so it's entirely possible he could continue to taunt everyone via nightmares

So Robin possibly having recurring dreams while also being paranoid about Vickie's safety, to her knowing she's meeting up with Vickie and getting ready to see her while rambling to Steve about said dreams, only for her to seemingly NOT end up meeting Vickie and going on side quests instead?

Yeah I'm fucking terrified rn

[basiclupineurology]

why troy & abed were doomed from the start

i'm back to say i've come back to community and i've been thinking a lot about the state of troy and abed's relationship through the seasons and why they work so well comedically but, somehow, the writers weren't able to sustain their friendship to the end. (not even talking about s5 here. the cracks started showing in s3.)

the obvious answer is that sitcoms tend to go down in quality over time, the characters becoming flanderised versions of themselves and losing who they are, but i can't really say that - barring the gas leak season - abed or troy lost who they were for the entirety of the time they were on the show together.

i think what doomed them from the start was that they were not only comedic partners in a sitcom, but best friends. there was a tangible realness that underscored all their actions, beyond the cheesy heightened melodrama of most sitcom relationships (platonic or otherwise) that audiences could recognise and wanted to see develop. so, develop they did.

but troy and abed both appear in the show at a very interesting point in their lives. every member of the main cast, of course, has major change in the trajectory of their lives at greendale, but troy and abed in particular come off several years of being a kind of half-person. troy spends most of his life playing into the character of the popular jock, someone who is still inside him throughout the series but becomes increasingly diminished, a voice in his ear rather than this all-consuming persona. abed is who his father wants him to be. he's never had any friends, spent most of his childhood bullied and most of his adulthood thus far pursuing his interests in a vacuum and inside his own mind, with no one to share them with. for lack of a better term, troy and abed come of age throughout the run of community. they figure out who they are as individuals.

and, frankly, as geothermal escapism put it best, it's impossible to figure out who you are on your own when you're being consumed by another person. i'm not saying that either one of them is guilty of this, but what started as a close but casual 'fling' of sorts between the two of them became increasingly intense to the point of overwhelm, and as they started moving away from their early-season caricatures and becoming complex and flawed and human, things between them naturally became more intense on a deeply emotional level. the writers recognised this. never crossing the line into romance, they had to express troy and abed's love for each other through every other method under the sun. we see them, in their own misguided and silly ways, sacrifice what they want for each other over and over again. until it's too much.

too much to believe? too much to handle?

troy and abed remind me of that very best friend you have as a queer kid. you're stepping out from your parents' or your siblings' shadows for the first time and here's this person to catch you. you love them more than words can say. then they're gone, because nothing so childish lasts, and you can't really explain why it meant what it did. the person they were, maybe, and who they were to you, but you also know that no one, no matter what they're like, will ever be this special again.

and so even though we can't cling onto those people, because we get older, we change, we grow up and we grow apart, it is really fucking hard to let go of the first person you've chosen to let into your life.

and because the community writers are fantastic at their jobs, we get to see that reality play out in front of our eyes.

[carigm]

A BREAKDOWN OF THE POTENTIAL S5 EPISODE TITLES!!

Okay, so today entertainment journalist Jeff Sneider shared some alleged insider info about S5 of ST, mainly directors and titles of the first 6 episodes.

Here’s a screenshot

It’s important to keep in mind that this guy isn’t always the most reliable, and considering he also said he believes S5 could come out before the end of this year, let’s not take any of this too seriously. (Many cast members have mentioned they’re filming until December of this year so that’s literally impossible). The information about the possible directors I believe is correct, because it’s been circulating around from other sources too.

The episode titles I’m less convinced about because it’s also possible the Duffers could’ve put out fake episode titles in case they leaked. I remember for S2 all the episodes titles they announced were changed later on lol. But for the sake of fun, here’s an analysis of all of them:

1. The crawl (only confirmed title) is a very broad, open title. It personally makes me think of the UD and vines, or maybe even the idea of Vecna crawling back to life. Could also be an allusion to the military.

2. The Vanishing of ___ Wheeler is arguably the most insane one. The journalist said he wasn’t revealing the actual name of the person because it’s a spoiler ofc. My gut tells me it’s gonna be Holly, mainly because of the recast and her supposedly being involved in the hospital plot, which we have guessed takes place in episode 2. Could explain why she’s suddenly “more important” this season, especially if she’s used as a plot device of sorts. Could also tie into what Ted’s actor said in a podcast back in February about the first episodes being a rollercoaster of emotions, and that comment he made about Ted having a soft spot for Holly. It would be a perfect tie in for Karen to find out about the UD as well. The implications of naming the episode the same as the first episode, which is so intrinsically tied to Will, is very interesting. It’s also a new connection/tie between the Byers/Wheelers that I assume will bring the families closer together. I don’t think it’s about Mike because I doubt he’ll go missing in ep.2, or be dragged to the UD just like Will was. It would be an interesting concept but I doubt it. I also don’t think Nancy’s gonna go missing. Karen could be interesting but I doubt it as well. Ted would be an incredibly funny choice. Imagine he just goes missing while at the house 😭 Nonetheless, I think Holly is the clear choice here, and I do very much worry for her if she goes missing. Mainly because while Will survived this, I’m not sure they’ll do the same for Holly :(

It also ties into Vecna’s threat to Nancy against her and her family.

Here’s an interesting leak from the same anon that leaked the hospital stuff (which seems to be correct)

I think this could be the very same scene Holly goes missing.

3. Turbow Trap 😭 This one is utter nonsense. I have no idea what a Turbow is, so I assume it’s gonna be a code or nickname for something. Absolutely clueless here.

4. Sorcerer is incredibly interesting, and imo a clear allusion to Will. His D&D character being a cleric, basically a wizard. Could also be a reference to Vecna imo. Or both 😉

5. Shock Jock is clearly tied to the radio station plotline. Imo the title could be a reference to Steve, Jonathan, or even Murray (he fits that eccentric, somewhat annoying personality quite well) In case you guys don’t know a shock jock is like a very eccentric radio host.

6. Escape from Camazotz is another crazy title. He’s a figure from Mayan mythology who’s a bat spirit. That immediately makes me think of Eddie, but also Steve ofc. However, camazotz has a larger meaning that goes beyond “bat spirit”, it’s also a representation of death and night. So the title seems to be alluding to someone escaping from death or a perilous situation.

Even more interesting perhaps is that kamazotz is a name of a planet in A Wrinkle Time. It’s the planet where IT resides, the mind controlling antagonist of the narrative. So I guess in this comparison Kamazotz is the UD, and IT is Henry.

[purpleheartskies]

The Neglect of Robby Keene

This post focuses on how neglect, abandonment, and emotional neglect are constants for Robby and how these led to Robby's behavior in s5. Interestingly, I'd written a draft of this post for s1-s4 before s5 came out. I didn't post the draft at the time because s5 was going to come out soon and the spoilers/leaks had started. After s5, I was easily able to update the draft to include the relevant content from s5 because Robby's story in s5 fit right into the post, sadly.

A recurring punishment for Robby is abandonment and neglect. Johnny bails for months from Robby's life whenever Johnny and Robby argue. Both of his parent's responses to him quitting school and giving them attitude about it was to just abandon him to his decision. And after he was dumped into juvie, neither Johnny nor Shannon made genuine efforts to be there for Robby as he needed them to be.

"You know, all those years you weren't there, I blamed myself."

Really, Robby doesn't even have to do anything to be abandoned or neglected by his parents, as is the case with situations like Robby's. Johnny walked away before Robby was born, making the decision then not to be there for Robby as a parent should be. Shannon constantly bailed and probably left Robby with no food or money often. Robby's sigh when he was going to fill his bowl of cereal with water was so telling.

Robby acts in no way surprised by Johnny and Shannon's behavior, and when he calls it out, he uses phrases like "it took 16 years", "same as it always goes", "again", "all those years", indicating the consistency of their behavior. Even when Shannon was leaving for Mexico in s2, Robby wasn't surprised that she was leaving but was worried about the bills and rent. He had also commented that she had been gone for days and he thought that someone had been breaking in, indicating that he hadn't been expecting her to return so soon. She had no concern for his well-being. Instead, she asked him what was wrong with him because he had attacked the guy with her, who had been entering the apartment, even though she had been gone for days with no obvious communication with Robby about when she would be returning. She was gone for months after this, and Robby ran out of money and food. Daniel took Robby in, and then months after, when Shannon returned from Mexico and said that she was leaving again, Robby asked her where she was going "this time".

Shannon: "Robby, what is wrong with you?!?" Robby: "What is wrong with me? You haven't been here in days. I thought someone broke in."

In fact, since s1, Johnny's abandonment and neglect of Robby has involved Johnny replacing him as well. Johnny not only gave up on Robby so easily after Robby said that he didn't want to go back to school and told Johnny to leave. Johnny also told Robby that he didn't care if Robby went to school, simply because Robby made some pointed comments and gave him some attitude. Johnny then went and dedicated himself to a random kid to put all of his efforts into, instead of going back to Robby and making a firm commitment to change and do better with him.

Robby seeing Johnny share a father-son moment with a random kid, after Johnny had affirmed Robby's comment that Johnny hasn't cared for 16 years by saying that he doesn't care if Robby goes to school.

Abandonment/neglect is so often a punishment and a constant for Robby that, when Daniel disowned Robby, Robby was generally accepting of this punishment. The first time Daniel kicked Robby out, Robby did try to explain himself in the moment, but the next day at the avt, he was back to his usual quiet demeanor, not saying anything to Daniel and just leaving him be. And when Daniel came to speak to him, Robby apologized and explained himself, not making the slightest mention of the harshness of that punishment without being given a chance to explain. Daniel had told Robby after he had fallen for Louie's first prank that Daniel would listen to Robby's side next time, which Daniel didn't do. The second time Daniel disowned Robby, not just as his student but as part of his family too, saying that it was all a mistake and once again not giving Robby a chance to explain, Robby was quietly sad about it but had no anger towards Daniel about his words or disownment. Instead, Robby defended Daniel's overall kindness to him and told Johnny that he and Daniel can learn from each other. Robby was still quietly accepting of the disownment later when he was talking to Sam in school. In fact, he took the situation as inspiration to confess a secret he had been keeping from her.

"Wait. Don't even start. I gave you a second chance. This whole thing was a mistake. You know, you wanna end up like him [Johnny], that's up to you." Robby doesn't know that, the next day, Daniel told Sam about Robby, "I thought I could help him, but... but he's got his own family. I need to focus on mine." Daniel had truly given up on Robby without even giving him chance to explain.

A couple weeks after the school fight, when Daniel ambushed Robby with the cops, Robby panicked and then threw up his emotional walls ("Don't bother") pretty quickly. He was being completely open and vulnerable with Daniel in that conversation, because he had believed that Daniel actually cared about his feelings and what he'd experienced, but when the cops showed up, Robby realized that Daniel, like Johnny and Shannon, no longer cared about his emotional or psychological needs, especially during such a crucial, traumatic time for him. Robby had wanted Daniel to be in his corner and have his back, to believe in him, which Daniel didn't do. Daniel once again didn't give Robby a chance to explain. In juvie, Robby was back to his usual quiet demeanor. Daniel had promised to visit Robby every day, but Daniel never did. Daniel did call and Robby hung up on him, but Daniel didn't make the effort to actually come to Robby like Daniel had promised, proving to Robby once again that Daniel's commitments to Robby, like Johnny's and Shannon's, can't be trusted. (Robby did try to open up to Sam via email, but he was stopped from writing the email. He later didn't write to her because she had stopped trying to reach out to him after her last email, "If you're okay, please answer". This had also been after her tv interview saying that she "hoped" it was an accident. This was yet another instance after the school fight of someone indicating that they thought the worst of him, and then abandoning him.)

Robby and his emotions are cast away so often that he puts up emotional walls to shield himself and pushes people away or he just puts his emotions away because, well, who is there to truly care about him and for him to trust and rely on? Johnny and Shannon have always put themselves, their feelings, and their needs above his, never truly caring about him and his feelings, thoughts, and needs. Like, when Robby wanted to hangout and watch a movie with Shannon in s1, she guilt tripped him into understanding that her wants and needs are more important than his. Or like when Robby genuinely told Johnny in s2 that Robby needed time to forgive him, Johnny made it about himself and accused Robby of continuing to train with Daniel just to torture Johnny, even though Johnny himself had been torturing Robby by replacing him with a random kid and continuing to train that kid even after that kid had purposely pulled on Robby's injured arm just to win a plastic trophy. Robby is so traumatized by Johnny that Robby had believed that Johnny had told that kid to fight dirty against him. Also, like in the car later in s2, Johnny asked Robby if he was nervous about his first day of school, but right when Robby started talking about the LaRussos, Johnny became dismissive of Robby's feelings, so Robby said, "I know you don't want to hear it". Robby knew that Johnny's feelings about the LaRussos matter more to Johnny than Robby's feelings about them, despite everything the LaRussos had done for Robby while Johnny had done essentially nothing for him. And after Johnny had abandoned Robby in juvie for months, knowing that he was being beaten and providing him with no support, Robby's big confession to Johnny that Robby has blamed himself all these years for Johnny abandoning him was met with no response or corrective action from Johnny, although Johnny had also accidentally hurt Robby in their confrontation. Johnny left Robby with a mark on his head with Kreese, and Johnny left with Miguel and didn't return. Johnny didn't care that Robby was homeless and had been homeless since getting out of juvie.

In s4, Robby said that Johnny now wants to make up for lost time just to feel better about himself. This is an accurate assessment of Johnny's intentions, which played out in s5. All these years, Robby's feelings have never mattered to Johnny. Only Johnny's feelings about their relationship matter to Johnny. Every speech Johnny gives about his failing with Robby is about how Johnny feels about it and how it's affected iim, with no acknowledgement at all about how Robby feels about it or how it has affected him. For example, Johnny tells others "I didn't know how to be a dad" as his reason for abandoning Robby. However, just because he didn't know how to be a dad doesn't mean that Robby didn't need a dad and didn't need Johnny to try to be one to him. Johnny himself was abandoned by his bio dad but he has had no empathy for Robby, instead leaving Robby with no dad and to be his own dad. Johnny could have at least made sure that Robby was being well taken care of, but Johnny didn't care to do that either. Johnny knew Shannon's habits before she went to rehab, like her often being at happy hour somewhere, where to track her down, and that she dated a lot of random men. But, like Robby had said in s1, Johnny hasn't cared about Robby his whole life.

In s5e3, Johnny said that things were now good with him and Robby, even though Robby told Tory in s5e4 that he and his dad still had issues, some that are too big to solve. Earlier in s5, Johnny had manipulated Robby into the "father-son" trip to Mexico and continued to manipulate him to get him to stay because Johnny admittedly needed help finding Miguel. Johnny had only looked for Robby for a few hours the two weeks he had been on the run, but Johnny gaslighted Robby and made it sound like he had searched for Robby with Daniel for those whole two weeks. Johnny then minimized over 17 years of failures with Robby to Johnny's non-"failure" with Miguel. And, because Robby was unhappy about Johnny tricking him into the trip, Johnny told Robby that he could go home on his own and ditched Robby at the bus stop, not caring if Robby could/would get home safely. It's in that moment Robby started fawning with Johnny on that trip. After having been abandoned by Johnny for years, especially whenever Robby would speak out against Johnny's mistreatment, Robby now switched tactics to avoid this punishment. Not to mention, Johnny was going to ditch him in another country after dragging him there with a lie, while Johnny had also told Carmen that it was unsafe for her to be there. Johnny obviously didn't care about Robby's safety or well-being and was willing to sacrifice him, while Johnny did what he could to keep Miguel and Carmen safe.

Johnny told Robby the bus schedule and handed him some money: "Sorry I dragged you into this, Robby." Johnny abandoned Robby at a bus stop in another country after tricking him there in the first place under the guise of a "father-son" trip...

Later, Robby told Johnny that he wanted to help Johnny because Johnny was trying to make things right. This is an example of Robby fawning and putting Johnny's needs above his own. Johnny obviously wasn't trying to make things right with Robby though, which Robby at least realized subconsciously so went on the defensive by fawning throughout the trip and which Robby acknowledged consciously in some way when Tory later asked him about the trip.

When it came to Johnny wanting Robby to be friends with Miguel, Robby clearly told Johnny that he didn't want to be friends with Miguel and that Johnny and Miguel have their relationship and Robby wants his space from that. Robby made his boundaries clear, but Johnny has no respect for them. Johnny eventually gave Robby no choice but to "fight it out" with Miguel, and Robby eventually surrendered completely to Miguel near the end of the apartment fight and surrendered completely to Johnny after the baby news, so that Johnny wouldn't abandon him again. Now that Johnny is going to have a baby with Miguel's mom, they're going to be Johnny's family for real, and Johnny already proved to Robby with the Mexico trip that the Diazs will always be more important to Johnny. The atrocious apartment fight followed by the baby news, firmly established Miguel once again and now this coming baby as priorities over Robby, as Johnny admitted that he wanted Miguel and Robby to get along because the baby was coming. Robby gave up who he is completely to appease Johnny for the rest of s5. At dinner, Robby had to ask Carmen's permission if he could join them, once again firmly establishing her priority above Robby as well. As Johnny's son, Robby shouldn't have to ask to be included, but as the kid who was scapegoated for the rivalry and for the school fight, Robby had to ask permission from his attacker's mother if he could have dinner with his own father, who had also sided with his attacker. If Carmen has an issue with Robby, then she shouldn't date his father. But, Robby the kid is put in the position of having to navigate the situation as if he has to earn his place in his father's life. Later in s5, Robby had to laugh off his own comment the one time he spoke up about Johnny's failures with him, after overhearing Johnny speaking with Miguel about his feelings and not wanting to fail him again. Robby still had to be careful expressing himself around Johnny, or Robby would be shut down and likely abandoned.

These quotes explain it well: "Having an emotionally immature parent often means you're pretending: pretending you're not resentful, pretending to agree with their opinions, and pretending you don't have needs and boundaries..." "It wasn't just people pleasing to please people. It was survival to keep unpredictable behavior away. The fear of not being able to make someone happy isn't about their happiness but how they use power in harmful and unexpected ways."

Sadly, Daniel no longer cares about Robby's feelings anymore either, although Daniel had cared before he'd disowned Robby the second time. This is especially noticeable in s3 when Daniel ambushed Robby without giving the slightest consideration as to what Robby's emotional and mental state would be. Daniel had called the cops before showing up at the rehab center and talking to Robby first. After Robby hung up on Daniel when he called Robby in juvie, Amanda dismissed Robby's anger as "he's a teenager" and that he'd come around, so Daniel let it go. Being a teenager doesn't make Robby's feelings invalid, especially given how Daniel had him arrested without even a proper conversation between them. After Robby got out of juvie, Daniel cared for a second about Robby's feelings when Daniel heard that Robby saw Sam and Miguel at Miyagi-Do, but then Daniel forgot about it as soon as Sam convinced him to give Miguel a chance. When Robby had gotten out of juvie the day before, Daniel had told Robby that Miyagi-Do would always be his home. Robby showing up at Miyagi-Do later that day meant that he had been open to taking Daniel's offer of a home, after walking away from Daniel outside of juvie. Daniel didn't even consider this after he had heard that Robby had come to Miyagi-Do. By then, Daniel had "let him go", like Amanda had told him to the day before.

In s4, both times Daniel talked to Robby, it was about Cobra Kai and related topics. When Daniel approached Robby the first time, Robby accused Daniel of coming to use him for the dojo war, and Daniel didn't even register what Robby's accusation meant wrt Robby no longer trusting him. That is, Daniel didn't care about Robby's feelings about him or their relationship, and Daniel just started talking about what he had come to say to Robby, similar to Sam's approach with him earlier in s4. Daniel had only thought to talk to Robby because Amanda had talked about teens with anger issues being lost causes in need of wake-up calls. In the second conversation in s4, Daniel used Robby's trauma against him when he taunted Robby about wanting to get back at his dad, a reference to their conversation at the s1 avt. Daniel was also dismissive of any negative feelings that Robby has towards him, and Daniel just focused on tearing Robby down for interfering with Daniel's goals to take down Cobra Kai and did't care for what Robby was saying to him. Daniel also overlooked that he had taken sides and teamed up with Johnny and Miguel, two of the people who had hurt Robby the most.

In s5, Daniel repeated exactly what he'd said to Robby in s3 wrt how Daniel had handled the aftermath of the school fight, so Robby avoided talking about his issues with Daniel. Instead, Robby put Daniel's feelings and needs above his own and told Daniel exactly what he wanted to hear. Robby said that Johnny and Sam had filled him in on what was going on (which implies that they had told Robby that Daniel had talked earlier about how he had failed with Robby). Here, Robby claimed that Daniel hadn't failed him. Robby told him all the ways he had helped Robby, and Robby talked about how Daniel had been right about Cobra Kai. Robby said what he needed to in order to lift Daniel's spirits and make him feel like he hasn't failed Robby, even though Daniel has been failing him at least since kicking him out before the school fight. Robby also called himself a "messed up" kid when he talked about how Daniel had given him a purpose. When they had met, Robby had been a kid who had been abandoned and neglected and living in survival mode, which he still is in many ways. At the time, Daniel himself told Amanda that Robby is a "good kid. He's just had a rough go of it." Sadly, Daniel didn't correct Robby here and didn't tell Robby what he needs to hear: he was never a "messed up kid"; he is a "good kid who's had a rough go of it".

Daniel: "Robby, the things I did, juvie, I was... I was just trying to help you." Robby: "No, I'm... I'm sorry. I mean, I should have listened to you about Cobra Kai..."

Robby's feelings and side of the story don't matter. This is a significant part of how Robby has been treated by the other characters and the narrative itself. Robby's generally closed-off demeanor is the result of years of abandonment and neglect. He puts away his emotions and rarely speaks about them because he has had no one who consistently and unconditionally cares about how he feels. In fact, when Robby expresses his emotions, he is often shut down. Like, Shannon dismissing him when he wanted to hang out with her, dismissing his concern that someone had been breaking in after she had ditched him for days, and dismissing him when he tried to remind her about all the rent and bills they have to pay when she said that she was leaving with that random guy. Or, like Johnny getting upset that Robby needed time to forgive him, dismissing Robby's sadness about Daniel kicking him out, telling Robby that choosing Miguel over him was making things right, brushing Robby off when he told him that Miguel had been the one to attack Robby and escalate things in school that day, and ignoring Robby wanting space from Miguel and from Johnny's relationship with Miguel while Robby was stuck staying with Johnny for the summer, which was something else that Johnny and Shannon had decided for Robby without caring how he felt about it.

The quote about emotionally immature parents continues as: "... This act of pretending becomes so ingrained that you can spend several days together in the same room and yet still feel profoundly invisible and deeply insignificant to them, as if your feelings and needs do not faze them at all."

After Johnny had tricked Robby into a "father-son" trip and manipulated him more so that he would stay to help find Miguel, Johnny shared a profound father-son moment with Miguel right in front of Robby as if he wasn't there. Johnny hugged Miguel with more love than he has ever shown Robby.

Robby has had no one who would validate him and help him properly understand and process his emotions, especially those related to his traumas of abandonment, neglect, replacement, the school fight, juvie, and his other traumatic experiences. Instead, the one person he found for a short time in s1 and s2 who seemed to care just told Robby to "let go" of all these negative emotions related to his abandonment, neglect, and replacement by his father, which is not the correct way to handle these emotions. Fawning is also described as self-abandonment. In s5, Robby was now disregarding his own feelings and side of the story to appease everyone around him.

The school fight is one of many situations of Robby's feelings and side of the story don't matter, which occurs in different ways throughout Robby's story with the various characters, especially in s5 when Robby swallowed all of his emotions to be around the "good guys" as they all ignored or dismissed his issues with them. Even the other teens, Miguel, Sam, Demetri, Hawk, and the Miyagi-Dos, ignored or dismissed Robby's side of the story.

Demetri dismissed Robby talking about Hawk's wrongs toward the Miyago-Dos and called Robby an asshole, comparing him to Hawk. Demetri has never once acknowledged that Robby had protected him from Hawk, who had lead a gang assault against him over a yelp review, and had been protective of Demetri when some of the Cobras had first joined Miyagi-Do.

In general, Robby has never been given the support and time he has needed to process the events of the school fight and his experiences after that. He had been viciously attacked, stopped from protecting his girlfriend, and taunted about people he cares about not wanting/loving him in return (because the person taunting him knew that the taunts were extremely hurtful and grounded in truth). His attacker was about to break his arm for no reason but then suddenly stopped and said "I'm sorry". However, in such an intense situation and having been attacked by that person without provocation multiple times before, Robby reacted with a "fight response" and accidentally things went horribly wrong. After being frightened and on the run for days, Robby went to his mom for help. This is important. He went on his own to an adult, after being on the run and being well hidden. He wanted help, real help, to solve the situation. (Up until the end of s4, Robby was mostly counter-dependent because of his traumas. He rarely directly asks for help, so him coming to his mom and talking like he was going to go on the run was him genuinely wanting to stay and get her help. After all, he had been hidden and on the run until then.) Instead, Daniel, who Robby thought would help him and give him the psychological and emotional support he needed while solving the legal situation, didn't even care about his mental or emotional state, making rash decisions on Robby's behalf (calling the cops on him instead of first speaking to him, understanding from him what had happened, preparing him, and letting him make the decision to turn himself in) as well as judging him by his mistakes (kicking Miguel as well as running after the school fight), while simultaneously telling Robby that his mistakes aren't who he is. Daniel's actions were counter to his words, thus setting in Robby's distrust of Daniel. Daniel only cared about the legal situation and not about Robby's side of the story or his mental and emotional state, and so Daniel acted accordingly. Daniel also acted based on his earlier experience with Johnny wanting to kill someone purposely in the garage fight, after which Daniel told Johnny that maybe Robby has too much of Johnny in him. Before the school fight, Daniel had told Robby, "You wanna end up like him, that's up to you." When Daniel talked to Robby at the rehab center, Daniel still believed that Robby is like Johnny and not his own person.

Robby got so hopeful after Daniel said that he'll "help" Robby learn from his "mistakes". But, Daniel's "help" came in the form of Daniel having called the cops on Robby without first having talked to him, understanding his mental and emotional state, or caring about his side of the story. Later, Robby even commented that Mr. LaRusso wasn't in his corner and didn't have his back. Daniel never fought for Robby as Daniel should have. Instead, part of Daniel's "help" was a police ambush and a traumatizing place like juvie, where Daniel didn't even visit Robby as promised. Daniel has never once acknowledged Robby's side of the school fight, and instead told Amanda and Sam right after the school fight that he couldn't believe that Robby would do this, implying that Daniel believed even then that Robby had injured Miguel on purpose. In this scene in the rehab center, in the scene when he got out of juvie, and in their one-sided reconciliation scene in s5, Daniel repeated that this was all Daniel's way to "help" Robby. Daniel still doesn't even consider Robby's feelings wrt their relationship as relevant, so Daniel doesn't try to talk through and understand Robby's side of the story properly. After Robby had walked away from Daniel outside of juvie, Amanda had told Daniel to "let him go", and sadly Daniel did.

Johnny and Shannon were of course utterly useless and uncaring towards Robby in this whole situation following the school fight. Johnny and Shannon once again put their own needs and feelings above Robby's in what was probably the worst situation of his life, and neither helped him nor was there for him as a parent should have been. In s5, they continued to put themselves first, not even caring who Robby wanted to spend the summer with, but deciding for him. Shannon not wanting Robby for the summer is par for the course for her and shows that rehab may have helped her with her alcoholism and drug addiction, but not with her tendencies to cast Robby aside. Though she did raise the alarm about Silver in s4, her dismissive "Cobra Kai or whatever" and her absence from the tournament continue to show her lack of interest in Robby's life and in being there for him. Wrt Johnny, Robby had said in s4, Johnny just wants to make up for lost time to feel better about himself. In s5, Johnny proved Robby right with Johnny's self-centered dialogue about Robby, Johnny prioritizing his relationship with Miguel and Carmen as well as his efforts for the baby plot device over Robby, and Johnny continuing to dismiss Robby's feelings the whole time while still wanting to keep him around like a prop as long as he didn't speak out against Johnny.

Johnny and Daniel deny Robby's identity as his own person with his own feelings, needs, and experiences when they project their view of Johnny onto Robby. Daniel has been doing this since before the school fight in s2e10. Johnny started doing this after Daniel's comment to Johnny in s3e2 that maybe Robby has too much of Johnny in him. Johnny and Daniel doing this adds to the emotional neglect that Robby experiences due to them. Not to mention, before they allied together at the end of s3, they each put their rivalry with the other above Robby. Now that they are okay with each other, Daniel expects Robby to be okay with Johnny, and Johnny expects Robby to be okay with Daniel. Daniel dismisses Robby's feelings about Johnny and claims that Johnny cares about both boys, despite seeing the evidence otherwise. Johnny was dismissive of Robby's gratefulness to the LaRussos before the school fight, but in s5, Johnny filled Robby in about Daniel's situation and wanted Robby to show his gratefulness to Daniel because now Johnny believed it mattered.

After the school fight, to add to Robby being discarded and thought the worst of by the people who "care" about him, there was also Robby's experience of juvie, with the beatings and bullying that Robby endured on his own, including the reminder that his dad and girlfriend hate him and don't want him. The guards turned a blind eye of course, and only Kreese and his advice had come through for Robby.

" 'But, Robby, your my son. But I hate you, Dad.' Your girl left you, your dad hates you, you got nobody. And now you got nothing."

Johnny had seen Robby's bruise in juvie but immediately accused Robby of starting fights, not caring to ask Robby what had happened or if he was even okay, and then never coming to see Robby again. In s4, Johnny also dismissed that Robby had been attacked by Miguel that day in school, saying that he himself wasn't there, implying he didn't care for the details. Johnny ended the conversation by turning Robby away and slamming the door on Robby's retreating back. Johnny then went back to his life of being a constant loving and caring support towards Robby's attacker, and not towards Robby, as Johnny had been for months. (Johnny's decision to choose Miguel over Robby in the aftermath of the school fight was wrong. Child abandonment and neglect should never be condoned, especially in a situation like this. Johnny is Robby's parent first and foremost, and Johnny failed Robby and continues to fail him in all ways.)

This quote is so relevant:

"It can clear up a lot of confusion around childhood trauma, when you realize abandonment is not only when someone walks away. It's also when someone who is meant to protect you, allows others to hurt you."

This has been Johnny wrt Robby throughout the series. Johnny continues to abandon Robby, not just by walking away but by leaving him in dangerous situations and allowing others to hurt him. Johnny knew about Shannon's lifestyle and about the random men she brought around Robby, but Johnny didn't care. Johnny knew that Robby's friends in s1 were not good people for him to be around, but Johnny still walked away. Johnny hasn't fought for Robby and his side of the story since the school fight, and instead took his attacker's side and has continued to show him support since. Johnny ignored Robby's bruise in juvie, victim blamed him for it, and never went back to support him. Johnny left Robby to train with Kreese and Silver in s4. In s5, Johnny dragged Robby to Mexico and then ditched him at a bus stop to get back home on his own. After Robby stayed, Johnny allowed Robby to take risks that he didn't need to. Later, Johnny handed Robby over to Miguel for a beating. After the s1 avt, Johnny was upset that Miguel had shown no mercy to Robby during their match, but since the school fight, Johnny has walked that back. In s5, Johnny allowed Miguel to hurt Robby as he has always wanted to, and Johnny no longer acknowledges what Miguel did to Robby in the avt. Johnny truly doesn't care about the details of the rivalry. Miguel is the one who started the rivalry and is the bully in the rivalry.

It's also important to note that, until s5, Robby's side of the story regarding the school fight still remained largely unheard, and even then we only now know his side of the start and end of the school fight. We were never shown Robby's thoughts during the entire fight, especially the moments between his attacker randomly letting go and saying "I'm sorry" and Robby's "fight" trauma response (which Robby described as wanting to "finish the fight"). Robby had every right and reason not to trust Miguel in that moment and not to realize that Miguel had genuinely decided to stop fighting. After all, Miguel had a history of attacking Robby and had attacked Robby twice in that fight, even choking him, kicking him into the railing intentionally, and wanting to break him arm, all for no reason. In s3, Robby had tried talking about the school fight to Daniel, but Daniel ambushing him was like Daniel shutting him down and saying that he didn't care or want to hear it. After that, Robby stopped talking about the school fight. Even when Kreese and Tory showed him empathy about it in s3 or when Sam said she was angry with him about it in s4, Robby didn't say anything in response. The first time he talked about it again was later to Johnny in s4, and Robby got shut down again. Robby was trying to deescalate another situation and rightfully corrected Johnny about what had happened in school that day. Johnny is Robby's father. He is one of at least two people that Robby should be able to rely on for protection and help, which Robby can't do.

"abandonment is not only when someone walks away. It's also when someone who is meant to protect you, allows others to hurt you."

What adds tothese extremely sad aspects of Robby's story is how much Robby still loves his parents, despite how they treat him, and how much he of course still hopes that they'll care about him. Like, in s2, how sweetly Robby talked about watching Shannon's favorite movie with her when he was younger, even though at this moment she was still gone, after having ditched him for so long that he had run out of food, lost electricity, and would have been evicted. That even though she didn't care if he had what he needed to survive, he still spoke of her and those memories fondly. And when she finally returned months later, the moment she said that she was going to get help for herself and for him, he became happy for her and no longer showed her any anger.

In s5, Robby mentioned that he and his mom watch "Hot Ones" together, indicating that they still watch movies and shows together. But, Shannon once again ditched Robby for the summer against his will. Although this time she didn't leave him all alone, she did leave him with someone who she knows is unreliable when it comes to properly caring for Robby. One thing Robby doesn't know is that Shannon brushed off all of her and Johnny's failures with Robby as the two of them being young and dumb, and Johnny happily accepted this. (Johnny was in his 30s when he gave up on day 1. Johnny is now in his 50s and still keeps screwing up with Robby.) Shannon and Johnny once again dismissed all of Robby's negative experiences because of them, just to feel better about themselves.

With Johnny, Robby became hopeful the times Shannon told him that Johnny wanted him to move in (s1) or that Johnny wants a relationship with him (s2), even though Johnny himself had shown no genuine indication to Robby of either. In juvie, Robby smiled a little in disbelief, overwhelmed when he found out that Johnny had scheduled to visit him, even though Johnny had not tried to contact Robby for "over one month" after their "one good day" together. Johnny sadly missed this visit and chose Miguel over him again, which Johnny should not have done. (Even, Bobby didn't approve.)

In s4, Robby went to Johnny to tell him about his students bullying Kenny, but Johnny didn't care. Robby also told Johnny about his fear of becoming like Johnny and said that he wouldn't because he is better than Johnny. Instead of telling Robby that he can be better than Johnny, like Johnny had once told Miguel, Johnny just got upset and dismissed Robby so that Johnny could get back to making Miguel's favorite dinner to get him away from Daniel while Robby went back to being trained by the pyscho that had strangled Johnny twice, once when Johnny was about Robby's age and once just a few weeks prior while Robby was lying unconscious nearby. After the avt, Robby followed Johnny to tell him about how much he is struggling with all of his "hate", which he doesn't understand is how his trauma due to Johnny manifests itself. Robby told Johnny that Robby took Kenny under his wing because Robby wanted to be the mentor he wished he had when he was younger, a quiet acknowledgement that Johnny had never been a mentor to Robby as Johnny should have been. Robby eventually told Johnny that he's sick of blaming Johnny. Sadly, Robby keeps putting hope in the person who has abandoned and hurt him the most and who has no true will to fight his inner demons and treat Robby better.

In Robby's conversation with Johnny after the avt, Robby is so devastated by how much "hate" he feels, as if he has no right to have "hate" and that it is wrong for him to feel the way he feels, regardless of why he feels it or how others have treated him. Robby has been raised to reject his own emotions, like his parents reject them. And being told to just "let go" of that hate by his first mentor didn't help either. Not to mention, Johnny guilt tripped Robby in Mexico, low key making him believe that his "hate" is wrong and that he should sacrifice his well-being to help search for Miguel. Johnny continued to dismiss Robby's "hate" for him and for Miguel after that and eventually forced Robby to fight Miguel, that is to use a "Cobra Kai" method, to resolve his issues with Miguel for Johnny's own benefit, even though in this s4 conversation, Robby had told Johnny that using "Cobra Kai" had made everything worse for Robby.

"And I had all this hate inside of me, for you and for Miguel. I thought I could use Cobra Kai to control that. But it just made things worse and now it's never going to get better."

In s5, Robby switching to fawning with Johnny and everyone was a sad culmination of all the trauma Robby has experienced, especially due to Johnny.

Abandonment, neglect, and emotional neglect can't be seen. These describe things that aren't done for a person. This is the silent context of Robby's story. You can see all the good times Johnny has with his replacement kid and grow fond of their bond, but you can't see the empty void that is Johnny's absence in Robby's life or the emptiness of a dark apartment or a lack of food that isn't there. You can't see the absence of psychological and emotional support, especially when those who should be giving it don't give it. Robby's relationships with Johnny, Shannon, and Daniel aren't just the moments he has with them, but also consist of all the things they didn't do for him that he had needed them to do as the adults in his life.

s3 and s5 showed what a great difference a support system can make, though a support system shouldn't come at anyone else's expense, like Johnny's support of Miguel has always come at Robby's expense. In s3, Johnny put all his time and effort into helping Miguel with his recovery. While Johnny was building Miguel back up, Johnny ignored all the hardships Robby was facing. Robby was alone and was being torn down and eventually went to Kreese of all people because he was the only one who had been there for Robby at a desperate time. Later, Robby knew that he couldn't trust Kreese, but like Robby told Johnny, he couldn't trust Johnny either. Daniel, as Sam's father, rightfully put his time and effort into supporting Sam, repeatedly telling her that he is there for her. Daniel, however, never did the same for Robby, despite having taken on the role of Robby's mentor and parental figure. Robby expectedJohnny and Daniel to care about him and didn't expect Kreese to care about him, so Robby stayed with Kreese because he was the more predictable one between them. In s5, Daniel lost in his fight against Silver, like Robby lost in his fight against Miguel. Everyone rallied around Daniel after his loss, while no one other than Johnny and the Diazs knew about the Robby and Miguel's fight, and no one other than Johnny and Miguel knew of Robby's loss. Given that Robby became people pleasing towards all of them, it seems Robby didn't trust any of them to care about him so he didn't tell anyone about the fight. This itself adds to Robby's trauma. While Daniel was lifted up and supported by those around him, Robby has been dealing with things alone for a long time, especially since the school fight, and feels that he can't trust the same people who supported Daniel.

Robby has had no consistent parental/adult, psychological, and emotional support for a very long time, probably his whole life. By the end of s5, Robby needs that support as well as time to heal more than ever. Robby needs the support of someone who is truly committed to helping him and who won't give up on him and/or tell him that helping him was a mistake or ignore his mental/emotional state, regardless of whether he has screwed up.

As I mentioned, the narrative also emotionally neglects Robby. Robby's pov and side of the story aren't just overlooked by the other characters but are also overlooked by the narrative as well. His side of the story hasn't mattered to the other characters, at least so far, and the story is told more from their povs.

The other characters, the narrative, and most fans are like Kyler in this conversation: acting like Robby's traumas and feelings aren't anything to acknowledge.

Despite this narrative emotional neglect, Robby still exists in the narrative and still is such a central part of it. Robby is the protagonist and underdog in the story. As I mentioned in another post, the protagonist isn't always the main pov character. However, the protagonist's pov is eventually revealed. With that revelation, I hope Robby gets a proper support system, especially someone who will sit with him repeatedly, listen to how he feels, tell him that it's okay for him to feel what he feels, and help him process in a healthy way all the feelings that he's been holding in for so long. Someone who will help him to trust again and to love himself as he should, and not to self-abandon in response to others' behaviors towards him. He needs someone who will be there for him, have his back, and be in his corner unconditionally.

((As always, please don't comment or reblog with dismissive comments about the nuance in the story. The nuance is part of the story, and the story is exploring important topics like trauma, bullying, neglect, and dysfunctional relationships. Regardless of what will be in s6 or what payoffs we'll get in the story, this is an analysis of what is in canon so far. Robby's story is so important because it portrays abandonment, neglect, and emotional neglect consistently through Robby's experiences throughout the series. Robby's character and story represent various people in society and their struggles, and these topics should be respected.)

[aemiron-main]

The Vanishing of Karenginia Wheeler

So, we all know about the “Vanishing of BLANK Wheeler” episode title leak.

And Wilbur @reikunrei just sent these pictures from a ST leaks/st5 spoilers page, and mentioned the idea of this stuff paralleling the line from the Indianapolis Gazette about Mrs Creel.Mother Alice being “gutted like you would clean a deer”:

And now, I’m staring at the whole “Karen Wheeler is Daughter Virginia in the Edward timeline” thing versus Will’s vanishing involving a fake body and the fact that the Edward paper specifically talks about Edward and Daughter Virginia’s mangled eyeless bodies in the foyer- details that a.) are unique to the Edward paper and don’t appear in the Henry paper and b.) imply that there was at least a fake body for Edward present at the Creel house, since he’s likely not dead (just like how Henry didn’t actually die even though Victor was told that he died). Those details about the corpses imply a fake body because in Henry’s case, the surface level story is that he survived the initial attack but then was taken to the hospital where he later died after slipping into a coma- so, no Henry corpse was ever found or reported by anybody because there wasn’t one/he was taken to the hospital.

With Edward’s story though, the paper says that his eyeless, mangled body was found as well as Daughter Virginia’s eyeless, mangled body- which doesn’t make any sense if Edward survived, and so, there was likely a fake, mangled body put there by the lab, especially since the Edward paper is also the paper that talks about how Victor was mysteriously found wandering along the side of the road on the morning after the murders.

So then, that brings up the question: was there a fake Daughter Virginia body too?

I wonder if a Karen S5 vanishing arc is going to be used to reveal the whole “Karen is Daughter Virginia” thing by paralleling the events of S5 back to what happened in the Edward timeline during the Creel murders & the parallels that has to Will’s vanishing.

Especially since those pictures I got from Wilbur talk about a Demogorgon attack- and a Demogorgon attack on present-day Karen could be used to deliver subtext regarding the idea of a Demogorgon in the Creel house on the night of the murders/what I’ve been talking about with the Demogorgon sounds that play when Victor talks about Mother Virginia’s death & the Virginiagorgon & the parallels between the mysteriously dishevelled post-murders Creel house vs the dishevelled Byers house after the Demogorgon went through it.

Anyway! Lots to think about.

[sunflowerdigs]

Based on the stills, we're getting a loft scene in 7x05 between Buck and Eddie that is clearly meant to parallel the one between Buck and Tommy in 7x04. And I question that choice if Eddie is only going over to reassure Buck that they're still friends. Inevitably, the scenes will be compared and contrasted and the impression the audience will be left with is that the show is trying to draw a clear line between the kind of relationship Buck has with Tommy and the kind of relationship he has with Eddie. So, it makes Buddie seem a lot less likely to happen. Sure, in the future they could reverse that decision, but why film the scene that way in the first place, you know? There's no other reason except to deliberately draw that comparison.

I think a kiss between Buck and Eddie at the end of that scene would strategically be a good choice in order to keep people excited about the show over the 2-week hiatus. Plus, it would make shooting the two scenes so similarly make sense in a Buddie context. Additionally, it would explain why Buck and Eddie seem to be so at odds with each other in 7x06 - they're dealing with the fallout of the kiss and they aren't on the same page about it. Buck's relationship with Tommy is new enough that if he ended it, it would be fine, but Eddie's relationship with Marisol has been going on for months. We've seen Buck behave badly in relation to Eddie, so it would make sense that we see the reverse as well. Plus, Eddie kissing someone else after getting serious with a girl would parallel what Buck did to Taylor in s5.

I know that there are script leaks out there that suggest a different ending for 7x05 (including the dreaded b-word), but, who knows? Hope springs eternal.

[noblechaton]

gonna ramble a bit about the ml art style change bc ig I have more thoughts about it than I knew. tagging this as leaks but no like story stuff is gonna be mentioned bc I don't really know any lol

so going off what little we've seen of it (and in arguably the lowest possible quality at that) I think it's gonna make the show very visually pretty which isn't to say it couldn't be or wasn't in the older style(s) but that was def more inconsistent between studios and such so if this new style is the standard then like. yeah it's gonna look great

buuuuuuuut I also think it looks kinda. generic? like what's happened to a lotta brand logos that used to have personality but now all look super flat and simplified. like the Pepsi logo or whatever. it's a similar situation to the movie (I'll get into this in a bit) where like yes it looks pretty but it doesn't really look like Miraculous to me? like ik the style kinda varied somewhat between the studios but it was largely consistent enough and felt much more unique. like I could see a screencap from any timestamp of any episode and place it as Miraculous just bc of the visual style

now tho it looks less unique to me and more....like a mobile game ad? some kinda un-marketed direct to streaming movie? not trying to sound mean or anything but it just doesn't strike that same feeling the old style did for me as of yet. it feels more like an attempt to ape off a generic Pixar/Disney sorta style which the movie's style did too - and that ig is a good excuse for me to kinda dive into my thoughts there bc like. it looks way more like that movie now right? the y'know completely non-canon movie that to my knowledge wasn't received too terribly well lmao. I feel like this is on some level purposeful tho

I made a post the other day about how someone (especially the youngins) might go into season 6 thinking it's actually more of a season 1 only to presumably find that very much isn't the case pretty quick lmao - but that's still a new viewer, which makes number go up, which is a Good Thing. that s6 looks to be something of a fresh start given the whole Gabe in da Ground situation makes me believe this more since I'm pretty sure he got got in the movie too (<- does not remember the movie she saw twice) albeit in a different way. very real chance they view s6 as something of a soft launch pad with the hope of ppl who only saw the movie just jumping in without looking first. I also have an even more insane conspiracy theory that they're using movie assets at lower res for the sake of cost management but again. nutso hunch

regardless I'm kinda surprised they're changing it so drastically this deep into the series and I have no idea how the quality of animation is gonna hold up from episode to episode, season to season. presumably this is part'a why we haven't had s6 drop yet, that they've been working on it thoroughly, but it's been a good minute since s5 ended and I feel like the drought in content isn't really worth it?

like it's been so long that to me sometimes it's felt like the show straight up ended and while I don't mind a wait like this, the show then coming back looking entirely different to how it used to is gonna be jarring. I'm giving it a chance bc we haven't really seen it yet and that footage is very likely a wip of some sort but all the same I'm not terribly impressed? the emotions seem more stilted and flat, there's a few sorta redesigns that look....off (namely Adrichat, imo), and it feels too much like an attempt at cashing in on whatever success the movie might have had by bringing the look of the show more in line with it

think what gets me the most is that the style and animation of the show was one of the biggest things that drew me in beyond the bugcat of it all. it was the first CG animated show I'd seen where I felt as if the animation really worked; the world felt alive and vibrant, the city lived in and populated, but it didn't feel uncanny or like realistic in any sense, and there were plenty of gaffs and flaws throughout but I feel that only endeared the look of the show to me more - it had its own style that stood out for better or worse and I think that played more a role in the show's success than most have given credit for, and now that it's being entirely dropped in favor of a style that feels much more like some generic CG animation style I can't help but feel a bit disheartened and even nervous about the future of the series tbh

want to say that I'm not looking to hate it - I'm gonna give it a chance, and again I think it does visually look pretty, but I feel like it loses a lot of what made the show stand out to me and changes things I don't think really needed changed. time will tell but as of now I'm really not sold on it

also think having a special (or two? maybe?) in the old style just to drop us into the newer one presumably shortly after is kinda weird. wonder what happened there. bad timing? tbh using a special to introduce it mighta helped a bit but idk for sure

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

I agree that it was probably orchestrated by Netflix/the duffers.

The reason being that if Mike and El are not going to end up together, and they’re breaking up early in s5 potentially, they do not have a lot to work with in terms of keeping fans expecting them to be together engaged. And most of the audience is expecting them to be together, so they can’t really afford to subvert that too soon.

I can’t recall any instance of someone being able to film like almost a minute of a scene being filmed, let alone this late in the game for s5’s production when you would think security is as tight as it’s ever been.

Like the daily mail? Really?

I remember that there was some article that released last year prior to when s5 was originally supposed to start filming, where Netflix announced that they were going to be cracking down on leaks a lot, making it a lot harder for people to be able to get on sets and capture things going on.

Makes me think they did crack down, they’re just being more intentional with who they allow to capture things and the when where and how to use it to their advantage. Atlantafilming is the most well known photographer in the area for filming, it would not surprise me if they called him up and are now working in tandem with him.

I would also guess that what he captures will generally be subtle outside of things they want us to see to confuse us. Like I highly doubt they’re going to ever capture of Will and Mike scene that is incriminating, at least not anytime soon this close to when they used the mike and el scene to qualm any doubts people had about them before the inevitable rug pull.

If it was an intentional, orchestrated leak, then I would begin to doubt the authenticity of the scene. I'm not saying the whole thing would be fake, but they could have made alternate dialogue for the leak.

[you-me-we-04]

All my Succession S4 thoughts in one post

What it says above fair warning some of these will contradict each other, some  have evidence some based of ~ vibes ~ some i just think would be funny some also come from bits of leaks so read at your own risk and if you want more depth on any of these let me know. 

- Tom and Greg are not Team Logan, their Team Tom Greg it just so happens that Logan best severs their needs for now..

- Everyone but Greg dies in a plane crash, Greg only lived cause he went home to grab his weed, because he is the last man standing he just gets give the company 

- After the fight we see in the trailer Tom will storm off, Shiv all alone will break down, later on Kendall will be the one to comfort her 

- The rebel alliance works for about 2 seconds before it all falls apart 

- Tomgreg kiss early in the season pre Tom’s divorce, so Greg goes full breakdown mode since he feels like he’s becoming his dad after not talking to Tom for an episode or two (during this Ewan also dies cause why not), adding more to Greg’s breakdown. At some point during Connor and Willa’s wedding he caves and goes to talk to Tom, this will lead to the Tomgreg sex scene (that we will all have to sit through)

- Shiv dates a woman, its great 

- Everyone kinda ends up back were we started, Tom and Greg still are outsiders (chilling in the gay art galley), While everyone else is dealing with a Logan health crisis Kendall wants everyone to think he has his shit together so he can take over the company, Roman is working in waystar but still feels like he hasn’t been able to reach his full potential, Shiv is back working in politics/pr outside of waystar and Connor and Willa are just kinda hangout  

- The ending get meta Willa writes a tv plot about the family it gets pick up by HBO, the family is pissed but Connor kinda just turns into a proud house husband (or she writes a play about the family that does well)

- Logan dies and their some surprise in the will (love child, Connor gets everything, Greenpeace gets everything, take ur pick) 

- The Kenstewy hug happens right before news about that kid Kendall killed leaks (For Kendall to be happy, Kendall must suffer right after, this is how succession works)

- We never find out what wrong with Roman 

- Roman Roy breakdown 

- Shiv actual gets pushed down the stairs 

- Logan (or Kendall) dies in the last episode and it cuts to black we never find out what happens after (sopranos style)

- Logan dies mid argument with the rebel alliance 

- We get ONE Mr darcy joke from greg 

- In the final Hour a famous romcom actor shows up as Greg’s gay dad 

- Some bullshit about the Succession ending at s4 but the show get renamed to something else like Successor which is how we end up with the kinda s5 following the family after Logan death

- They forget to write Kendall’s kids into the season 

- Gerri ends up on top but kills Roman in her rise to total power (We stan)

[utaite-mun]

melting steel, a meta about shouto todoroki v tetsutetsu tetsutetsu

[ Spoilers for My Hero Academia through s5 and the Joint Training Arc. I will be discussing both the manga and the anime in this post as evidence of my claims and as points of comparison. ]

tl;dr I think that Shouto as of the Joint Training arc is still feeling many of the ramifications of his hate of his father still, which leaked into his fight against Tetsutetsu, which lead to him attempting to go through with behaviors that should have had more punishment for him, either by the fans or within the narrative. I do not believe that he is a bad or worse character or person for it.

I do believe that the anime’s adaptation of this scene shifts the emotional focus to something else rather than the already presented one, intentionally makes a character more antagonistic, and removes an interesting anger from the other.

---

The Joint Training arc in BnHA is clearly a top pick for many fans of side characters simply due to the format permitting for more screen time for much of the underutilized cast. Issues of writing and very little of substance to add to the characters has been a scene that rubbed me quite the wrong way for a time after first reading it, aiding no more by community reception. 

We’re going to be talking about the third battle, specifically the fight between Shouto Todoroki and Tetsutetsu Tetsutetsu and talk about the circumstances in the battle and my opinions of them, as well as fandom perception and reception as well as applying a filter of real world logic to see what would’ve really happened.

In this meta, we’re going to be using a lot of direct screenshots from the officially English translated manga and a few screenshots with the Crunchyroll translations as evidence to back up these claims. As a result this post will be quite long under the cut!

Let’s start simple! Character motivations!

The easy one is, well, it's a class training. Mandatory participation for grade all that of course, but every character carries with them a little more than that.

We’ll start with Tetsutetsu because his motivations are a lot simpler, both due to being a far simpler person, and also without very much characterization. But what we see is telling.

He believes everyone thinks he’s stupid so he’s gonna counter Class A’s team!

This is entirely for the immediate comedy of showing that he is indeed quite stupid because he is causing quite the amount of collateral damage by flattening the arena. Outside of that, Tetsutetsu really doesn’t have any other motivations to want to win the or even to fight outside of typical school tournament battle shounen competetiveness!

Shouto on the other hand is a little more of an interesting case. While not a direct motivation, before the battle Tokoyami brings up the legacy and upholding the reputation of the heroes they intern under, being Endeavor and Hawks. Shouto is then prompted to think back on his past and the abuse that he’s faced from his father, with a particular focus on moves that Enji claimed only he could learn due to, well, not being like Touya (who couldn’t due to burning far too easily).

“You will learn these moves.” “Only you can do this technique!”

There’s a heavy focus on these move, this technique, that only Shouto can do, so claims Enji. This technique and these powers are the why behind all of Shouto’s abuse which is why the abuse is also so heavily focused on here.

But Shouto never takes a particular stance on these feelings when the fight starts, he’s just thinking about it because its part of the reputation he’s upholding, part of the legacy heaved onto him.

Now before we get into the nitty gritty of breaking down the fight with even more panels of evidence, we also need to talk about the two’s fighting styles. It might feel a little pointless but it’s very important to a point we’re going to bring up later and also to gather how the fight goes.

Tetsutetsu is a physical brawler above all else, he doesn’t have any range to speak of unless he starts throwing things, but outside of that he punches. It’s all punching and bludgeoning things, because that’s what his quirk is best for, getting up close and beating things up.

Shouto then is more of mid to long range attacker. His fire and ice are best used in wide areas where he can entrap opponents in obstacles of his own making. But we know him to not be the best at fighting hand to hand with people mostly because he’s never had to do that. His quirk always let him finish engagements before he ever needed to use his fists, or to think of how to counter them.

With that bit squared away, let’s look at the fight and the characters mental states during the fight. Admittedly, this is significantly more for Shouto, because Tetsutetsu does not have any real baggage during this fight outside of “I want to beat this team in a fight because we’re battling to see how many teams from each class wins” and more training. Very simple shounen battle competition mindset. But let’s look at a few examples before the particulars that I want to get into.

Tetsutetsu is brash and crude, but this is really just par for the course in all shounen series, and in fact, these behaviors are akin to Bakugou, if not slightly nicer, though not that much nicer.

And before we start going into Shouto’s emotions, were gonna talk about this, and talk a little about how this has been taken by the anime and a lot of other people. Yes, Tetsutetsu is indeed saying he’s going to clock Shouto so hard he passes out. Could Tetsu drag him back to the jail cell? Yes and no, yes because its more nice than beating him up, but no because that goes right in front of the other people.

Is this violent? Yes! Is this more violent than series typical violence that has been previously enacted on other characters? No! Bakugou has done exactly this to Shouto (to the point of actually making him pass out) in the Sports Festival on a public stage. This is series and world typical violence, whether we endorse it or not.

So let’s get into the meat!

Shouto Todoroki and Tetsutetsu Tetsutetsu are fighting basically in the middle of a pipe jungle, Tetsutetsu has the upperhand due to early on getting Todoroki into a hold and then proceeding to punch his way to a victory by knocking out Shouto to then be taken to the faux jail cell.

Shouto’s ice proves to not be of very much effect when Tetsutetsu punches and shatters it, while his fire also proves to be of very little effect due to Tetsutetsu’s steel which resists fire and heat up to quite a high temperature (Shouto’s fire is likely only about 1200°C at it’s hottest, while steel doesn’t start to melt till around 1400°C).

In an attempt to fight Tetsutetsu, Shouto raises the temperatures of his flame, and says this.

And this is the very much part of the meta where I bring up my grievance.

Unlike the intentional comedic relief of Bakugou and his violence, Shouto in this instance is threatening violence unto another student that is unlike series typical violence established in the school setting (its important to note in the school setting because series typical violence outside also includes Kirishima losing the outer hardened layer of his quirk to Rappa, however that was a villain encounter who was TRYING to kill him).

Neither the audience, nor the character of Shouto, knows what melting Tetsutetsu will do to him. From a logical idea of how his quirk works, it would either melt his body entirely leaving just a puddle of melted metal, or the metal is just a layer atop the body, which looking at what has happened to Kirishima as reference... well, that layer would probably be the equivalent of Tetsutetsu’s skin.

It’s also very important to note that the heat Shouto creates in this moment is so hot it forces the cameras in the area that the teachers are using to monitor the situation for feedback to be destroyed.

Tetsutetsu responds, not by backing off, but by recognizing what the situation is with empathy for the other (yes empathy, he is burning, shouto is also probably burning, they’re feeling the same heat). And his recognition is a doubling down on his previous tactics. Knock out Shouto Todoroki in an endurance battle and quell the heat because Shouto will no longer be able to create it.

Shouto, too, doubles down. He doubles down that he’s going to wound Tetsutetsu is a severe manner. To which the reply is that Tetsu is ready to die in this training because if he can, then it means he’ll be able to do it when it really matters too.

The response is annoyance. And we receive a panel showing us just how massive the wall of flames he created really is. It’s massive.

The last of the panels of the immediate fight we need to look at is this one. Yes, Tetsutetsu eggs on Shouto, but that too is simply part of a fight. Shouto is choosing to escalate just for this short moment, with a concentration of fire to a punch, the only fist he’s hes thrown this entire fight by the way to double down on him not normally doing hand to hand combat, to hit Tetsutetsu, who is already warping under the heat.

So I’ve dug into the fight, broke it down, mentioned my major gripe, but lets dig deeper into this.

Shouto could not beat Tetsutetsu with his normal tactics, and was on a trajectory to being knocked out and losing. You may have noticed I left out some key panels here, and especially if you’ve only seen the anime, some key scenes.

All while losing, Shouto focuses on the reason for his abuse, this power only he holds. Which comes right back around to the flashback he was thinking on before the fight started, and what leads him to using such massive and hot fire against Tetsutetsu and threatening him. It is a technique only he can use that surpasses anything he had done prior to.

And when Tetsutetsu fights back still, he’s pissed! He’s annoyed that this guy can think that he can still possibly win this battle, he just wants Tetsutetsu to shut up and get away or else he’s going to hurt him with far worse than just some burns. He’s cruel and angry, and he’s willing to do a lot of things he probably shouldn’t. And I’m honestly a little pressed to believe that he was doing this out of anger in the moment.

When he wakes up in Recovery Girl’s hes just kind of dazed and confused. But he’s not fuming, and that probably in part of the heat exhaustion and likely lack of oxygen.

We’re going to go on a tangent about the anime now! Yaaayyyy....

For those who have only seen the manga, or have made it this far, the anime fundamentally changes a lot of the emotional context for reading Shouto (and Tetsu!) in this scene. And I really don’t like these changes.

First we need to focus here. There are no clips I can find of this scene but this is 8:30 into episode 96, Battle 3 Conclusion. The anime completely removes the second half of this statement from Shouto.

First, at the timestamp, there’s a heavier emphasis on Shouto getting physically punched. A focus on the impact and the reaction of him heaving over, and whether intentional or not drawing a heavier emphasis and direct imagery to the next scene which is of a child Shouto on the ground after being similarly hit. Even if the words spoken carry the same meaning as the manga’s the scenes tone and imagery does not.

There’s also this!

This does not exist in the manga, nor is there any real reason for Tetsutetsu to act in this manner.

If the above scene with Tetsutetsu was supposed to be in the manga, it would be where this red circle is. And sure, you can assume that it pulls on the previous panel with him saying he’s going to punch Shouto until he’s knocked out, but that’s a very different energy from the above.

Finally we need to focus here. There are no clips I can find of this scene but this is 8:30 into episode 96, Battle 3 Conclusion. The anime completely removes the second half of this statement from Shouto, being “Unless you wanna melt!”.

What the anime did with this scene with just a few changes ultimately changed a lot of the emotional context of this entire scene in a way that painted Tetsutetsu in far more of an antagonistic light than he really was. Between imagery that all but asks you to picture Shouto having a PTSD response (in the vein of a paralyzing panic attack), and adding a line which makes Tetsutetsu sounds far more sadistic or cruel than he is muddies some of the focus this scene had.

The manga didn’t have a focus on the abuse specifically nor did it make parallels to it the same way the anime did. It used the abuse but more specifically it was calling into recollection the reasons for the abuse, not necessarily the abuse directly (though it is all connected yes). And due to not having a line about Tetsutetsu telling Shouto to just get punched and take it (which is already terrible to say to anyone), Tetsutetsu was also completely more empathetic without it, because he still recognizes this as a classmate who he’s just gonna knock out and he’s gonna do it faster because they’re both BURNING.

So the scene happens, Tetsutetsu makes it out alive, we all know how this ends, you probably do since you’re still reading. Let’s talk aftermath.

I’m gonna sum up a lot of science and say, Tetsutetsu should not be alive. Working under the assumption his quirk is one that functions as a layer of steel over his body, his insides should have been so heated they literally explode. Like when you microwave food and it pops so loudly in your microwave it sounds like a gunshot. Imagine that, but your body. (Also there should be no oxygen due to that fire).

But I like Tetsutetsu, and I think everyone would like if Shouto didn’t commit a murder in the end, so we ignore that.

Next, we address Honenuki and Tetsutetsu dropping the tower on Iida and Shouto. No, Honenuki dropping part of the pipe on Shouto’s neck therefore knocking him out is not any more extreme than previous violence done by other characters (see Bakugou knocking out Shouto in the Sports Festival). 

And no, dropping the tower is also not any more atypical than anything that Shouto himself has done in the past. It is not any more heinous than something we haven’t even batted an eye at. It is akin to Shouto dropping the zero pointer robots on the obstacle course in the Sports Festival, which he did not care if he had smashed anybody under (very clearly because Kirishima and Tetsu were under there).

We’re also going to talk about here, that Shouto faced no ramifications for threatening to either kill or seriously maim Tetsutetsu in this fight, which is not behavior he typically engages in without reprocussions. There is no reprimanding by Recovery Girl or any of the teachers regarding his actions that could be potentially dangerous.

Here, in Chapter 241, we see that none of the students have any particularly bad things to say. They all think it was cool, and that it’s worth showing off as one of his super moves. Shouto doesn’t face consequences.

In this vein there have been a lot of fights where consequences happened. Shouto and Izuku at the Sports Festival had to be stepped in on by Cementoss and Midnight because of the threat that one of them would be too badly injured, or Izuku and Bakugou fighting against All Might and All Might being reprimanded for how he fought Izuku and possibly snapping the kid’s spine (even if it was played up as a joke). But that just never happened here.

And with that, we’re going to talk about real people reactions now. People like you and me, and I don’t have evidence of these but I want to talk about it. I at least want to touch on it here.

The fandom reaction to Class 1-A’s misconduct and dangerous behavior is vastly different from the reactions to the dangerous behavior of the same caliber from 1-B. There’s also heavy favoritism towards 1-A with no exception.

Back in 2018, when these chapters were first released, I never once saw any person talking about, “Hey,,, that’s actually a little messed up that Shouto’s threatening to melt someone”, but I definitely saw people getting mad that Honenuki let a pipe drop onto him or even the tower. But not a thing about how it’s similar to Shouto dropping those robots.

There was also a string of people just joking and being outraged about Kinoko, nevermind that especially what Shouto was doing was on just as bad of a scale (I’m looking at all those broken Geneva Convention jokes, yeah you know it, Shouto breaks it too, hes a walking flamethrower).

In the end it’s just a funny story about weird superpower teens, but for how much this series community used to revel in adding some complexity, it always just felt a little weird and bland when it was just this hype for unlocking a super move, that’d possibly even come at the expense of another character’s life.

---

I’ve been building this case since then and wanted to wait until the anime adaptation to really say something about it, little did I know how I’d have to discredit the anime to fast by doing the characters a disservice in my view.

Ultimately, I do like this scene. There’s a lot of interesting ideas here, especially about Shouto and his annoyance being driving factors (and something I want to write about in another post, talking about Shouto through some of his major plot points). I also think there’s a lot of things you can make here that I think are interesting, like in my “Lets Have a Talk, I’m Sorry” comic where it’s possible to say that Shouto was so blinded by this legacy that he threw away the safety of others.

I just think it’s a shame that the anime warped it in such a way that it only let’s you read a trauma ridden (oh no shouto is having a panic attack poor boy) version of it, and that no one really took the time to think about it like this back when it first released. In the end, I kind of just hope that I can offer a different look at a scene people love for so many reasons (and that I dreaded for a year), and some of my opinions on fandom perception of characters (which i do want to go more in-depth about later as well).

More of my BnHA meta’s can be found in this master list!

[willthewise7]

So the leaks are 100% false and I’m sure you all know that. But here are my thoughts on them:

Stranger Things 5 has been said by The Duffers to start straight into the action and therefore there will be a lot of supernatural elements. Why do the current “leaks” for S5 not address any of that? Or at least not provide any specifics? The only “leaks” provided relating to the Upside Down made no sense and weren’t explained well.

Additionally, there are very few mentions of Will’s importance when the Duffers themselves stated that he will have “a main focus” in Season 5. Yet no mention of his importance?

Even the ship plots make no sense narratively and are just rehashed from previous seasons if true.

In conclusion, they were false. We will no doubt be getting more fake leaks in the coming weeks/months ahead, but the more accurate ones will come once filming begins.

[princess-of-the-corner]

okay i need a summary of the S5 finale

someone in the server just asked what happened in the story so far so i need concrete details of how everything's been settled

This is gonna be rough because I have watched all this go by in a fever dream and half-remembering stuff and maybe confusing it with the leaked script(I don't remember what was changed) and I do NOT have the energy to look up exact details rn but:

So Adrien and Kagami are in London locked in their respective rooms which are. Pretty blank just a slab for a bed and a foosball table.

They're also drugged I think? But their parents are using their Alliance Avatars to fake celebrity couple moments for the public.

Nathalie tries to kill Gabriel with a crossbow but he manipulates her long enough that she starts dying

Ladybug was investigating the Agreste Mansion for.... I forget why probably but it's sure not because she's suspicious of Gabriel due to Felix telling her his identity in a previous episode because she is absolutely shocked when she sees him transform.

Oh wait she's probably investigating because Gabriel kinda just Scarecrow Fear gassed the whole world with the Alliance Ring's programs and some other shit and sends out an alert on the rings like 'Oh no LB and CN have kidnapped Adrien and Kagami! Don't you want to help? Aren't you tired of being nice? Don't you want to go apeshit?' and a bunch of people turn into the most generic fucking blank 'just a body to fight' Akumas.

Ladybug decides to fight him instead of finding Chat for backup

Adrien is still over in London, blitzed as fuck in gay baby jail. He realizes he's kinda fucked up and hands the ring off to Plagg to escape. Plagg flies across the entire ffucking ocean back to Paris and finds Ladybug mid-fight.

Marinette is now wielding both Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculous. She's fighting Gabriel (who has all the others except the Peacock(with Felix) and the Rabbit(with Alix)). And she absolutely WRECKS him. We get a real good fight sequence including some cartoony nonsense like using Lucky Charm to drop a whole fucking grand piano on him.

Anyway. She's winning clearly. They end up in the basement crypt with Emilie's coffin. She knocks the Butterfly off him and into the abyss and like. We've gotten clips of Lila(or whatever her real name is) being in on this so obviously Lila's gonna pick it up.

Marinette has Gabriel pretty backed into a corner but she does the 'I'm sure you're still good you just miss your wife please don't do this give up!' thing. While dropping her transformation and offering her hand out completely fucking vunerable.

Naturally Gabriel uses Venom to paralyze her and steals both the Miraculous.

Gabriel starts up the Wish, which makes Tikki and Plagg go into True Form Godmode where they're giant magical multi-armed beings and do a fusion dance thing to turn into the Kwami of Reality: Gimmi. (this part is actually really cool just like the fight scene)

Gabriel has a literal last second change of heart(?) and asks Marinette to make sure Adrien never finds out that Gabriel was Monarch and that he only remembers the times he tried to be a good father(BITCH WHERE???)

He makes the Wish and fucking dies

Cut to some time later: everyone is back in Paris. Bustier as Mayor is going over soooo well she's turned everything into such a utopia of environmental consciousness(completely ignoring the time and money it would take to make these changes! And more importantly ignoring that even if Bustier isn't a corrupt politician, there's a fuckton of other actual corrupt politicians that would shut this shit down so hard).

They're celebrating Gabriel's 'sacrifice' in helping Ladybug defeat Monarch and he gets a statue(made of melted down Alliance rings) calling him a Hero! Adrien hopes he'll live up to that greatness one day!

Speaking of the Alliance rings, Tomoe gets away with helping Gabriel because she lies and is like 'oh we were totally hacked!' and everyone believes her.

Marinette does not tell Adrien the truth about Gabriel or even that Adrien is a Sentimonster. But hey she at least gives him the wedding ring Amoks?

We get a clip of everyone getting their Miraculous as a permanant Hero team and then having a party at the pool! All the kids are there(except Chloé who is off in London getting abused by her mother because 'oh she deserves it for*checks notes* reacting to the previous abuse she suffered in a not-perfect way!').

Nathalie is healed and fine and also at the pool party.

We get a shot of the woman who is either Emilie brought back to life or Amelie. No one is sure. It seems like Amelie because she wasn't mentioned elsewhere in the epilogue and she's also wearing black(Emilie is always in white, Amelie is always in black). But the leaked scripts and the character model sheet called her 'Emilie' so no one knows.

We get a final scene showing Lila's lair in the catacombs, where she has the Butterfly Miraculous and also the robo-army remote control thing from back when Chloé was mayor. She gets jumscared by something off screen and it cuts out

[sweetcloverheart]

Any idea why The Show keeps undoing/ending GabrIel victories yet in the Season 5 Finale, GabrIel wins?

Well, according to the grapevine, since the MLB airs in Brazil via Gloob and a lot of kids there whom are part of the intended target audience have parents who are currently in prison and/or have served sentences, the latter likely "requested" the former to make it so his ending was more "digestible" for them/not remind them of their current circumstances - or so I've heard.

(Edit: I've been informed that the whole "Gloob suggested Gabriel not be jailed" rumor is a result of this twitter thread from TA answering a question about Gabriel's fate, where he mentioned Gloob informing him of the above mentioned about Brazillian kids (https://twitter.com/Thomas_Astruc/status/1479946079634399236). According to Brazilian fans, however, this is not the case at all and seems to be the MLB crew "passing the buck" as it were as an attempt at damage control regarding the leaks/reactions over Gabriel's finale fate and are upset they're being blamed for the writing decisions made. While I won't/can't say if TA lied/is being partially truthful on the thread, it's clear the situation's a huge mess and neither Gloob nor the Brazillian MLB fandom are the main perpetrators for whatever choices were made for S5, so do approach the rumors with caution)

Finale + other Leak spoilers under the cut

But frankly, it was likely mostly because Gabriel is the main villain and they needed to keep him in the driver seat to help ramp up the "will they ever catch him" drama until it was time to hand the wheel over to whoever they picked as successor (i.e Lila in Season 6), especially if we take the claim of everything totally being planned from the get go as is. I think they also just wanted to move on from Gabemoth without having to address all the more uncomfortable "complicated" issues his existence as the main villain have created (what with being Adrien's dad and the magical slavery and what not) - hence they gave him a, quote unquote, "Pyrrhic Victory" that allowed him "punishment" (Not living to see the results of his Wish) while still rewarding him for his crimes "sacrifice" (Getting Emilie back and his image remaining unsullied in both her and Adrien's (and all of Paris's) eyes) and also making it the load-bearing weight of the new utopian Paris so that undoing it or telling Adrien anything about the truth regarding it is out of the question.

After all - only a complete and utter monster would want to undo the paradise Gabriel gave up his life to create for Marinette and everyone, *hint hint*