#and sometimes he makes stupid faces just because he doesn't know how to regulate emotions

[ftm-megamind]

david isn't a "cinnamon roll" nor is he a "mom friend" david jacobs is an autistic awkward teenager that never really had friends and comes off as kinda mean and he has no idea how to be normal. and that's exactly why all the newsboys guys liked him so much from the beginning

[milkywaydrabbles]

You did such an amazing job with angry! It was so much fun to read. But now I must ask a question😏 not so much of a request but again me picking your brain. Which tokyo revenger characters do you believe would be the overly jealous type (like anyone taking your attention away is already a major crime) vs the silent jealous type?

-🐇

I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I hope it was okay, it was a little hard to figure out how to write it but I think watching the newest episode helped kind of remind myself of his personality?

In terms of this question....it's hard to say. Because I think they'd all be both depending on their mood but I think I'll break it down in a mini list for each.

Overly jealous type: | ♣ Draken, Rindou, Mochi, Sanzu, Nahoya, Takeomi, Benkei, Shinichiro, Baji ♣ |

Silent jealous type: | ♠ Mikey, Ran, Koko, Inui, Wakasa, Hanma, Souya, Mitsuya, Shion, Chifuyu ♠ |

I think they're overly/silently jealous for different reasons.

Where I think Draken, Rindou, and Shinichiro for examples, are overly jealous because they make it very well known that you are taken--it makes their blood boil when they see someone trying to capture your attention in any way. Shinichiro and Rindou (seperately) in gangs should care people off on their own, whereas Draken (time skip) is just a big dude who owns a body shop should be enough. So it makes their eyes twitch when someone tries something. On the other end, there's people like Sanzu who don't really know how to regulate their emotions when it comes to jealousy so they're very aggressive about it. I think him, Nahoya, and Rindou are the type to rip you away from whoever is talking to you mid conversation, regardless of what it's about. It's not important to him, and he doesn't like their tone. I think Takeomi might get like that when he's in Bonten, the syndicate already takes so much that even the slightest thing like that would set him off pissed. I think Baji and Benkei are just loud, so they'd make it very well known in that moment that you're very much taken, thank you.

To the silently jealous type I think it shows up in different ways. Wakasa, Koko and Mitsuya I think have the largest threshold of patience when it comes to jealousy, so they're always the quiet ones about it. It doesn't mean that it doesn't bother the shit out of them but they do try to keep it together enough (although you'll see them scowling and pouty and can't help but tease them a little bit--they got nothing to be jealous about!) Koko especially finds it stupid to be jealous but he really can't help it when he sees how people look at you sometimes. Then there's Inui, Souya, and Chifuyu who will take the time to be jealous but then it slowly turns into an ugly form of self hatred. Because how can they blame anyone for looking at you? You're too good for them, you should go after someone else. I think Inui has a really hard time with it. The jealousy turns sour really fast for him, and in turn sometimes it pushes itself onto the way he treats you, and you have to claw your way back into his bubble to reassure him. Then there are the nightmares like Hanma Ran and Shion. I think they like to play a little bit. I think if they had personalities like Rindou or Sanzu they'd be just as intense with it but I think the jealousy forms itself real ugly with them. They'll see how you react, and if you're not spitting in their faces, even if you're just trying to politely turn away, it's not enough. Sometimes, they'll toy with whoever's flirting with you and pretend like you're not together, eyeing you up with them and letting them say the nastiest things to you. (The person might end up dead, who knows!) I think you'll take the brunt of it though, being either edged or overstimulated (or both!) for hours until he has you begging for forgiveness with tears running down your face. He'll give you a big smooch after though!

Mikey is, I think, the biggest wild card. I put him in the silent jealous because I think it depends on the time of his life? I think dark impulse/manila Mikey and even Kanto Manji Mikey would be the self-loathing type, to think you deserve better. And he might disappear for a few days/weeks depending on the severity of it. If you thought getting through Inui is rough just wait for this bad boy! But I think if it's Bonten Mikey, YIKES he's worse than the trio above. He's terribly jealous, but quiet about it. But he'll absolutely merc whoever was flirting with you or looking at you. He won't let anyone know how jealous he is, it'll just happen. And then would take it out on you the worst. It wouldn't be abuse, of course it'll be consensual (you have a safe word for this reason) but he'll be harder than he normally is, slapping you across the face or spanking you harder than he has, or leave a shit ton of bruises. You'll be apologizing in no time, but he'd gag you after and continue just for funsies. ( I think he'd feel bad after and make it up to you just a little bit, but you'll be more careful with the people who are around you if not for their own sake)

[thedragonsfate]

FHJY thoughts under the cut bc I gotta sort my brain and can't be succinct to save my life

I think there's something interesting in acknowledge like

of COURSE Kipperlily underestimated the bad kids.

She's hated these kids from day 1. I know a lot of people want to acknowledge that it's not unreasonable for Kipperlily and the rat grinders to think the school is run unfairly (and you're right! it's a fair conclusion)

-- but we also gotta consider that this is something that took root in her VERY EARLY. Before the bad kids got really very good. Two bad kids die on the first day of school, they spend a significant amount of their second semester freshman year just. In Prison.

Of course what follows I'm sure spurs that hatred, but she all but declared Riz to be her nemesis with Jawbone freshman year.

She's probably got some good ideas of how stuff should change, but also she saw this random Goblin boy with a briefcase in rogue class and decided she Hates Him, for a reason none of us can fathom when several of the other bad kids give off worst first impressiona

She's a teenager, a kid, with anger issues. As much as their can be important nuggets at the core of her motives, she's a teenager without emotional regulation skills. That combination is BUILT to breed resentment and feelings of entitlement. and it's built to actively ignore any evidence of a different perspective.

We talk about how she doesn't understand them, takes Kristen as entirely uncaring, doesn't expect the bad kids to do so well in the Last Stand

and OF COURSE she doesn't. some of this because she of course is not privy to all of the bad kids interactions that we are as an audience. but a lot of it is probably because she's a teenager who's decided she's being slighted and as a result is never going to take the bad kids actions on good faith. she's doubled down and while I have a feeling she's extremely perceptive, she's also in an emotional place that means she probably is ACTIVELY ignoring any evidence to the fact that maybe the bad kids are just ALSO working very hard, and that the school itself may also work against them sometimes.

Add to that a god corrupted into rage (negative in this case) and conquest, and a nefarious faculty member as a potentially directly manipulative adult in her life trying to make something big and destructive happen. Kipperlily strikes me as the kind of person who knows she's smart, and knows she's clever, but is so blinded by her emotion that she is probably missing some of whats clearly in front of her as far as all the Jace business goes. She certainly is about the bad kids.

Jawbone can only do so much to help her in her sessions if he's being actively worked against. Emotional regulation is hard to learn from zero AS AN ADULT and she's probably coming from the negatives if my impression is correct, and is doing so as a teenager.

I guess what I'm trying to say is like

In a vacuum? Sure augeforts comment about trying being stupid or whatever does seem like another slap in the face for Kipperlily, one that justifies some of her feelings.

But not about the bad kids. and not to the extent she has taken them.

And to take that at its word feels weird to me because. To anybody paying attention? The bad kids are and have been trying SO SO hard in class. Them having to take the last stand in the FIRST place is specifically because the school system is treating Kristen unfairly DESPITE her best, GOOD efforts. I'm certain the rat grinders are on some level aware of Gorgugs EXTREMELY uphill battle with schoolwork this season, even if it's just Maryann catching part of a convo with Porter or Ruben hearing about it from his uncle. I HIGHLY doubt that Oisin was oblivious to the way that Adaines academics were affected by her not having the money for the correct materials - she still was able to excel mostly but the effects of that roll being at disadvantage for so long are still THERE. Jawbone pinned down and mentioned to Riz his similarities to Kipperlily within maybe 2 seconds - there is 0% chance he hasn't brought something similar up in Kipperlilys sessions. She may not like it, she may not have the emotional intelligence to see it this way, but his efforts almost certainly mirror hers in a way that makes them equally hard workers, absolutely determined to keep themselves afloat despite it being an uphill battle. Something that she feels she deserves to be rewarded for, and to an extent implies that if just a few circumstances were different she would be able to see equal value in his work.

And sure you can say she may be able to see that and be angry that their work is rewarded and hers isn't, but we see time and time again that she and her party don't always put that same level of work in? Mary Ann at blood rush, absolutely uncaring but doing well specifically because she's got some magical enhancements. The suspicious circumstances of Kipperlily finding the Rogue teacher. Even just the natural advantage of Oisin having more than the funds he needs to excel in wizard class.

But even regardless of that, she seems to refuse to see that any scenario in which others are praised for the same thing she's done, while she is ignored etc, is the sole responsibility of the school here. the bad kids are not her enemies in that fight - augefort is. The bad kids are not going around being consistently given advantages from the school, they're earning the things they get and hitting their own academic road blocks, and they aren't acting better than other people in a way that goes beyond like. Teen stuff. And yet her sights are trained so unblinking on them.

I can see Fabian and Kristen's popularity and personalities coming off like it supports that they're being treated better or feel some superiority. And it's teen stuff to quietly hate those ppl at your school! it's p normal!

But it always brings me back to her SPECIFICALLY hating Riz. Bc Riz isn't a rich kid throwing parties that everyone loves. Hes not sniping out comebacks the way Kristen does, sometimes without even thinking. In a lot of ways he's the/one of the least abrasive of the group to an outsider. Which makes me SO much more inclined to call bullshit that this is truly, honestly rooted in an acknowledgement of any of the REAL problems that come up with their school system.

It's complex, but I feel like we can't exalt their perspective as a Truth of the world like it seems some folks do when these characters themselves do not play fairly. What is fair about the way they interfered with the exam. What is fair about what she did so easily to Buddy Dawn. What is fair about the murder of the couple that owned that farm. Depending on what happened - what is fair from them about Lucy's murder. Certainly what is fair about their hand in Yolandas.

This idea that things are unfair isn't untrue. But not in the ways she thinks, and shes moved so far beyond that notion at this point. Kipperlily probably DOES believe that she's uniquely a victim of this system, or at least that everyone but the bad kids is. But she's moved so far beyond that. Whatever divine rage magic is involved has ensured that, as well as probably some Adult manipulation, and severely underdeveloped emotional regulation skills. and for me that means like. obviously she is unjustified in her actions.

Augefort is absolutely unhinged. his school has never been run in a manner that rewards buckling down in the classroom and the classroom only. It's an adventuring school in truly the most chaotic and violence rewarding sense, and that information is given freely by Arthur augefort at maybe any turn

Saw something about the theoretical being just as important as the practical. and yes! absolutely! a very good point that I'm glad was brought up - going to the classes is important and I think this season has really emphasized the ways in which that's true at least in terms of Staying in School and Honing your Skills

I do think, in the same breath, that that STILL means that the practical is ALSO just as important as the theoretical. It CAN'T be one or the other, it HAS to be both.

and the bad kids are DOING both. regardless of what it may count for, the rat grinders xp leveling by continuing to do freshman level combat in order to excel more on paper ISN'T them really doing the practical part of what theyre learning in their higher level classes. And the bad kids do not get credit for their saving of the world REGARDLESS. Not on its own merit, and to get the credit they'd have to jump a hefty academic bar that sort of invalidates the point of practical efforts in the first place, not to mention works against students like Fig and Kristen.

The school is actively rewarding Kipperlily and her party's cheat code practical use of their skills, over the bad kids putting just as much if not more effort into their LITERALLY WORLD SAVING missions. whatever favoritism shes seeing, or that there may be occasionally, Kipperlily fundamentally takes the bad kids in bad faith. It's not ABOUT what is ACTUALLY unfair to her at this point.

from her perspective every accolade or accomplishment from them HAS to come from favoritism in order to fit how her view of whats actually unfair has been warped. for her it doesn't MATTER that they've been trying because they MUST not be trying as hard as she is. it doesn't matter that they visibly saved the world three times, one of which was livestreamed and included several party members dropping, successfully because surely it's a fluke, or they were given better opportunities than others for no reason, or they're being falsely worshipped for what MUST be a less dangerous quest than it seems (despite us seeing clearly on the first day of school that nobody is putting a pedestal up for their night yorb win)

What could have been a justified spark of frustration with a system has shifted into a vengeful sense of entitlement that to me? fully abandons the good of wanting to change a school system actively working against some (/all?) students.

idk maybe this all sounds like jibberish I just

Kipperlily in her current state is INCAPABLE of not underestimating the bad kids bc that would require some acknowledgement that they have worked and bled and died to reach the level they're at.

You cannot separate the girl who sneaks in to the Last Stand to sabotage another party's chances of passing, of staying at school, of continuing school, of one of them from potentially keeping their god alive, and of being brought back from what she assumes is certain death - from the slighted teenager running for class president to make things "more fair"

you cannot separate the girl who easily slits her own party clerics throat without second thought from the girl who thinks she's been slighted by an unjust system

What she means by unfair is inherently colored by her being that same person

Augefort can say whatever nonsense he wants, and it doesn't really justify her current frustrations at this point because her version of fair is fundamentally unfair now.

Shes a child who's become corrupted, just like Buddy. but unlike him - she's become genuinely nefarious and vengeful. Unlike buddy she is actively plotting. Harming others with full knowledge of it. We don't know how much of it comes from her on her own, or the rage baking underground, or Stardiamonds direct involvement - but I think this most recent episode should make it clear that like

Whatever truth there is to the school being run in a way that is unfair to its students, and regardless of what she says or thinks

Kipperlily Copperkettle is not operating from that grounded perspective. and I don't think she has been for a long time

[celestialautifutch]

I debated commenting on this because I don't want the person to feel like I was attacking them (same reason I cut the username out) but this mindset is also a problem. As stated above, some men do expect their partners to do all the housework, but this comment points out another issue men face, which is the assumption that men either cannot be neurodivergent or, if they are, it shouldn't impact them in the way it does for most of us. Couple that with the above issues of men not getting support that they need, even from the people who claim to love them most, and you've got a guy who's struggling and has no idea how to get help.

Some of the things people point to as "signs of weaponized incompetence" are very common traits of different neurodivergences.

Struggles to start tasks? Doesn't know where to start? Doesn't know how to do it unless told how someone wants it done? Doesn't see mess or clutter? Struggles to regulate emotions? Losing track of time? Getting fixated on one "unimportant" thing he enjoys for hours on end while not doing things that need to get done around the house? Struggles with decision-making? Poor memory? Doesn't know how to ask for help? Doesn't even know what kind of help to ask for? These are all things that fit into multiple neurodivergences, but you could pull these right off a "common signs of adult adhd" list. (And I'll be focusing my input on adhd specifically, but I see them in my autism as well)

I'm in an ADHD group on fb that is primarily women, and I can't tell you how often women talk about their internal struggles with all of these things, how awful they feel, how their partner doesn't understand and makes them feel worse, but always always there are hundreds of women responding with "I'm sorry your husband wasn't more understanding and didn't take the time to learn about how ADHD impacts you."

Now don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people in this world who don't give a fuck about adhd, especially when it comes to adults, people of color, and women, but we want people to learn and be understanding and try to find the person some support for themself, their relationship, managing tasks, etc. I've never once seen a man get the same treatment. Hell, I've seen women in this group talk about issues with their husband, clarify that he also has adhd, and commenters still saying that he needs to "just get his shit together, you aren't his mother."

We act like (white) men get so much help with adhd, particularly if they were diagnosed as a kid, when really all most of them got was a prescription that their parents refused to give them and "just try/focus harder" from parents and teaches. I met a lot of boys/men with adhd in my life, and moving into adulthood they struggle just as much with it as the rest of us, but it gets completely written off. My 32 year old brother went to therapy for the first time, got diagnosed with adhd shortly after (I've been telling him for years he should get assessed, but his wonder wife kept telling him that he was just lazy and stupid - oh btw she's a grad student for special ed 🙃) and finally realized why things that everyone seemed to have no problem with were so hard for him. How many more men are in this exact situation? How many of them are getting understanding and support from their partners? How many of them are just getting slapped with the lazy, useless label? How many of them are treated like children? Like burdens?

Contrary to what a lot of people (including medical professions, big yikes) believe, adhd doesn't go away with time. Adhd boys become adhd men and still need support. And considering the point of this post, most neurodivergent men aren't going to disclose that (if they're aware of it) right off the bat unless they trust the women in their lives. Those women need to first show that his emotions and struggles are safe with her, just as he needs to do with hers.

And yeah, sometimes he is just being a shit, but going into it with that mindset, that every man having these issues is just lazy, doesn't help anyone.

Not to get personal, but these tags are exactly what I heard in my household growing up and it's a mindset that traumatizes ND folks. Let's drop the 'one time should be enough' mindset.

is he “trauma dumping” on you or have you just not unpacked what the patriarchy has taught you outside of “woman bad” and you think men expressing any kind of emotion or vulnerability is bad actually.

[oumaheroes]

hnnnng deep dive into france's bad moments or coping mechanisms? love hearing about how this man isn't just a pretty face and can and will be toxic if he feels like it. sorry for bad English. keep up the good work my friend!

As with Arthur, Francis' bad moments would be impossible to list, there's too damn many of them and what Francis considers bad versus what anyone else considers bad are two very different things sometimes

As for his worse coping mechanisms, there are some that he shares with Arthur. One being his inability to admit to wrongdoing, preferring to blame someone else for a situation going awry or for a relationship breaking down. Francis is rarely in the wrong, both because he is sometimes blind to the potential consequences of his actions and because he hates either making avoidable mistakes (and the shame of that) and realising that he and he alone ruined something.

Francis is a callous, cold person when he wants to be, more socially manipulative and ruthless than Arthur and it's hard to really know what he believes and feels. He's an incredible liar, able to mask his personality and emotions to whatever situation he wants and he can and will take advantage of someone to achieve and end, even if that end is amusing himself. He does this both because he can, and because Francis is a MASSIVE hypocrite. He mocks people for their flaws, taunts them their failures and takes advantage of their nature because he's terrified of being in that position himself, of being awkward and slow and wrong footed and ugly. He'd rather pre-emptively strike than assume safety and be caught off guard. One of Francis' worst coping methods then is to project his fears to onto others and this comes across most in his desire and need to dominate a social setting and keep it tightly under his control

Another terrible coping method he has, which I feel that most of their kind have to some degree, is substance abuse.

Francis' is the slow, hidden kind, far more toxic in many ways to Arthur's overt reliance on alcohol to express vulnerable emotion. Francis will be fine always, perfectly in control and on top form, knife sharp and calculating. But then he'll go home to his empty house, sit in a bath and drink a whole bottle of wine in half an hour, frequently moving on to a second just to try and feel his own emotions, rather than sit with the mask of whatever he was using to fit in socially that day. He struggles to connect with himself, can't always regulate and identify what he is feeling versus what he thinks he should feel and after years of this emotions now come to him vague and fleeting. Alcohol deepens them, helps him feel one of them solidly, and Francis has accidentally drowned himself drunk in his bath more times than he cares admit to himself

Lastly, another bad coping mechanism he has is the inability, and lack of want, to learn publically, and being a lazy learner in general. He regards modern technology as frivolous, not really all that necessary, and it takes him ages to learn it. He'd rather shove his phone at Gilbert or Arthur to figure out why it's flashing than do it himself, or avoid it altogether if possible- it took him years to get a laptop and he still only uses it for work.

This is because publically he doesn't want to appear flustered or give away how unsure he is- he'd rather openly admit he doesn't know and dismiss whatever it is as ridiculous, rather than admit he cares- and privately because he doesn't want to tackle the fact that it's difficult for him. Francis likes to get things instantly and, if he doesn't, he avoids it. He hates mentally struggling or feeling stupid and unlike Arthur who uses this as fuel to learn perfectly right now to prove that you can and become an expert, Francis would just rather give up and not try

[dirtytransmasc]

hey, little thing I want to remind the stranger things fandom if, particularly the billy-antis:

the only time we see Billy being truly aggressive was during the first week or so after a huge move. a very important move that is, a move caused by something max did that hurt Billy, and that is up to debate or speculation but by what we are given on Billy's character I think she outed him (on accident).

Now on average, kids react pretty harshly to major moves, even just crossing town lines, but this kid crossed over different regions. he went from the warm west coast that reminded him of the only time he was happy, to the Midwest which was dull and crappy and arguably very Neil. that would set even the best if kids off. but Billy is an abuse victim, he craves normalcy and continuity because that's how he evades abuse. it gives a sense of security. but now he's stuck in the middle of a place he doesn't know, full of people he doesn't know, with his little sister who is some way to blame for this mess, and his abusive dad is on his neck. he had to be terrified and angry, justifiably angry.

factor that into Billy's demeanor, and he's not so scary. snapping at his sister, while wrong, makes sense. he's angry at her for getting him hurt and forcing him out of the only home he knows, the only place he vaguely remembers being happy. that's why he's so reckless and uncaring, because he is numbing out, acting out because he desperately needs help but won't ask for it. maybe he likes getting pulled over so he finally has a face of discipline be can spit in, or a firm voice that won't hurt him. maybe he just wants max to feel what he's feeling, because at the end of the day he's still a stupid teenager that in his own has no grasp of emotional regulation, let alone what the abuse has done to him.

though it wasn't right Billy's reaction, the aggression towards max and her friends, the fighting, the parties, the aggression towards Steve. it all makes sense when you consider this kid is just settling into a new home. by season 3 he has completely mellowed out and teaches little kids how to swim. he's still Billy, a ball of fire and cinders that refuses to be snuffed out, a ball of fire and cinders that loses control sometimes after it's been beaten and doused with gas. but you can tell just by his few interactions with max in season 3 things are better between them.

he deserves better, since key factors if his character and his arc are routinely left out of peoples analysis of him.

(also if anyone really thinks he was gonna hit the kids with the Camero, I need you to leave because you truly see that 17 year old as a monster and it's a major red flag for me, I don't trust y'all around my traumatized ass)

[bigmack2go]

SPECS IS THE MOM FRIEND NOT HIM

david isn't a "cinnamon roll" nor is he a "mom friend" david jacobs is an autistic awkward teenager that never really had friends and comes off as kinda mean and he has no idea how to be normal. and that's exactly why all the newsboys guys liked him so much from the beginning