#and shadowheart is just a standard follower of shar

[gunpowdercarousel]

Me, the DM: Alright guys, what're your characters for the new campaign? Remember, we're starting at level one.

Bill: Alright cool yeah no problemo, so I'm like a legendary folk hero guy, right? EVERYBODY knows me. I'm super famous. I'm like the hero of the Sword Coast, I've killed minotaurs, stopped cults, fought devils in the Hells, saved the world countless times, all that jazz. Also my dad's a duke, I'm rich, and there's this really hot demon lady who's my patron.

Me: Uuuuuuuuuuuuuugh-

Carla: Oh! I'll go! So I'm a badass tiefling lady, I've been fighting in the Blood War for a decade, I've killed loads of demons - like SO MANY demons - and also my heart is an infernal engine. So I'm constantly on fire basically and anyone who touches me gets burned to ashes instantly. Like just boom dead. TOASTED.

Me: UUUUUUUUUUGH-

Gabe: Lame. Alright, so check this out. Lemme lay this on ya, right? So you know Mystra, the Goddess of Magic?

Me, visibly terrified: .............uh huh?

Gabe: Heheheheh. Yeah. Uh huh. That's right.

Me: .....What-

Gabe: Fucked her.

Me: UM.

Gabe: Also I'm a nuclear bomb

[rinwellisathing]

Get to know my OCs: Deity worship:

Sentry Ojeda:

For a time from ages 16 to the time he was in his mid-early 20s and got tadpoled, he was a loyal Bhaalist eager to please father with his art and his Murders. But before that and then when he traveled with the party, he did truly follow Ilmater. Although he distrust Gods in general, Ilmater has been patient, gentle, and understanding with him just as his adoptive mother who was a devoted paladin of Ilmater did. Ilmater sees Sentry as an exemplary redemption story and an ideal reflection of his teachings.

Wysp Silksong:

A devoted follower of Elistraaee since he was little. Born as the eldest and favored daughter of his family, his priestess mother encouraged him to worship Lolth, but secretly Wysp prayed to Elistraaee instead and practiced music as well as dreaming of one day escaping Menzoberranzan and living as the man he truly was. When his mother found out he was presenting as a man and worshipping Elistraaee, she disowned him and had him tortured and disfigured with ritual scars, intending to have him killed, but with his goddess' help, he escaped and carved out a new life on the surface as a bard.

Kroger of Creche K'liir:

Started out as a loyal follower of Vlaakith, a war priest and ghustil in training. He followed his queen loyally and lived up to every standard his leaders demanded, until he and his sisters were declared H'sharlak and banished. He then became friends with Isobel and also commiserate with Shadowheart after Shar abandoned her and ultimately he became a Selunite.

Jaina Thalassia:

Born into a devoted family of Umberlee worshippers and blessed with Umberlee's magic as a storm sorceress. She was meant to become a priestess like her mother, but instead after a near death experience as a little girl, she became Umberlee's chosen champion instead. Her belief in her goddess is strong and she honors the tradition of her island and her family.

Octavia of Creche K'liir:

She's not a big fan of deities or religion, but if she had to choose one, likely Oghma or Gond because of her love of discovery and innovation. She might have once considered praying to Mystra before she met Gale, but now she couldn't imagine a god she hates more.

Jackal Silk:

Mostly loyal to his father, Bhaal, but he also resents him for favoring Sentry, Orin, and Tomi, back in Menzoberranzan he briefly flirted with the idea of worshipping Vhaerun, but his ego really won't allow him to deign to worship Gods for the most part.

[mathlann]

One thing I always think is particularly weird about people using "Sharran" as an RP reason to dislike Shadowheart is that it's always coming from the presumption that your average Forgotten Realm-er has access to the same Lore Books or whatever that you, the player, also have. (Granted, I find the Forgotten Realms to be stinky as a setting and am not totally up on the Lore so if some Big Evil Shar event happened recently I wouldn't know.) But like, there's a reason why the House of Grief is just sitting there in Baldur's Gate while something like the Temple of Bhaal has to be in the sewers. Ketheric and the Shadowlands is an extreme outcome but your average Shar Temple probably won't have anything outwardly horrible about it because you generally don't get new followers by being blatantly evil everywhere all the time.

I wouldn't be surprised if most people get introduced to her as the Lady of Loss first. Forgotten Realms seems like an incredibly violent place where "good" gods are distant and rarely commune with their even their best followers directly. Preying on grief and loss as incredibly powerful and isolating experiences is probably how a lot of the evil religions get their start (again, Ketheric). A bunch of Sharrans rolling up on someone at a weak moment and being like " your pain is not only valid, but good. Anyone who hasn't experienced the same levels of pain you're feeling right now are weak and can't understand you anyways so why try? To take your pain and inflict it on others is a holy act, don't try to move on and find mercy or kindness lest you become as weak as they" feels like pretty standard procedure? Like it's obviously a cult and wouldn't snare everyone but it'd be enough to keep things sustainable even if most aren't going to be dedicated enough to rise in the ranks for the truly evil stuff.

[sharransepulchre]

Shadowheart had high hopes that after all of her years of experience in the cloister with meticulously crafting the perfect personas and tailoring all sorts of disguises, that she might have some vague idea of what might look nice. With all of those years, something as trivial as this should have been a walk in Blossomridge Park... Until she realizes that she has no memory of the layout of that park, nor did she have any memory of picking out any outfits for any personas. It was all theory, perhaps simply conjecture. And, not only that, but had she ever had any regal personas she had crafted? Did any of them wear anything besides black and purple?

Sharrans were very particular about what they wore. Even down to her small clothes, her standard issued skivvies were... A little sensual, if she were to admit it out loud. All in Shar's image, and they used lust and sex just as often as pliers and whips. The body was a tool for extracting information - and Shadowheart just so happened to be quite skilled. Part of her was thankful she didn't remember the process, however grueling it was.

Fingers danced across the many garbs hanging through the closets, looking for something, anything, that could possibly be appropriate for Karlach. This was a date, after all, and she needed it to be special. Hesitantly, the priestess began to venture away from the blacks and the purples - because while she looked good in darker colors - she knew damn well that she did - this had to be special. It had to be perfect.

Shadowheart's evergreen eyes, vigilant and observant, began to peruse the many fabrics hanging for the feast of her gaze. But there were so many options - and she needed a little more assistance to locate the perfect fit. Her fingers joined the cause, prowling over thread-bare garments and silk gowns, helping her locate the right one. It was much harder than she thought it was going to be. But she needed something different, something that wasn't her Dark Justiciar armor. Despite everything, she still wore the plate of her scorned Mistress - because it's protection was simply something she wouldn't take for granted. Even if she knew it made her an even bigger target.

Part of her wonders what may have happened if she went through with killing the Nightsong. And when she thinks about it too much, it leaves her feeling sick. How she so nearly sacrificed everything she could have had for that sadistic goddess. She would have had to let go of everything, to be in total service to Shar - she would have never been here. She would never have been looking through clothes, picking out something for a date - and she would have never allowed herself to fall so deeply into these confusing emotions with Karlach. It would surely spell her end.

But now? She can't think of anything else. Karlach is on her mind nonstop, more than the parasite now, and that was a shock. She could only hope that her cheeks didn't burn too bright when she turned excited eyes upon the tiefling in question.

But her fingers had found a perfect fabric - the softness divine, and her eyes followed the movement. In her hands - her choice.

A brief purchase exchange and a doffing of armor later, and the cleric steps out, finding the boisterous tiefling leaning against the counter with that warming smile on her lips. The sweetest of smiles graces her own as she steps out, taking in her broad form in that tunic that hugs her in just the right places.

❝ why , don ' t you just look handsome ? ❞ She remarks with a smile, her eyes twinkling, and her own outfit is revealed. A beautiful white gown cinched at the waist to show bountiful curves, wrapping up behind her neck and fastening there to leave her arms completely barren. A single slit follows from the bottom of the dress up to her upper thigh on the right hand side, showing a pale, pristine slender leg from bottom to top.

She tucks a strand of silver hair behind her pointed ear as she steps forward, braid pulled over her right shoulder, and her nimble fingers find the tiefling's shirt. She teasingly unties the lace near the top, revealing a little more of her infernal engine; rumbling and glowing just beneath crimson skin, a flirtatious smile playing her lips.

❝ what a good look on you . ❞ She hums, before she takes a step back and nods towards the exit, her hand held out shyly. Wanting it to be held. ❝ if you ' re satisfied with your purchase - shall we ? ❞

Shadowheart finds endless relief that she is not the only one excited for this. This whole premise, the idea that they were going to go out on a dinner date together after shopping for new clothing was enough to send her heart fluttering. What sets it off even more is when one of those giant hands slips into her own, her eyes widening with surprise - but so does her smile.

She giggles to herself as she's dragged into the shop she pointed out, not even having a moment to do the same for Karlach before she's being tugged in. Her eyes immediately begin to survey the size of the shop, ready to peruse their options, to find something that would be just right.

❝ okay , okay . ❞ The priestess hums, glancing down occasionally to where their hands are joined - and she doesn't want to let go. Her emerald gaze catches on the contrast between their hands; her pale, slender fingers slipping so easily between massive red digits, like her hand was meant to be held by such a grip. It was lovely.

But she couldn't get distracted - shopping. Right.

❝ i ' m afraid we ' ll need to shop in different sections , darling . you ' re a little larger than me . ❞ She quips, brow cocking up, and her lips twitch into a broader smile. Reluctantly, she draws her hand from the other woman's, fingers dragging along her palm as if she doesn't want to let go. ❝ so . . . surprise me . ❞ She hums, a twinkle in her eye, before she steps away and slips between the hanging clothes to find something suitable for herself.

[mybg3notebook]

Loving your analyses of Astarion's behaviour and character so far! It has really reaffirmed in my eyes just how much of a bastard he really is. (I say that fondly, of course.) Do you have any thoughts on why the general reaction on tumblr has leaned so much towards woobifying him? After looking at his actual (explicit and implicit) morals in game it seems quite odd that some people are reading him as an edgy soft boi who just needs a hug from the right person to fix him.

Hello!

Thank you very much! I really enjoy seeing chars in a deep way. It makes me change my opinion on them, sometimes. That's why I like to do these analysis, even though it's a lot of work for a person who doesn't speak English as a native.

Lol, please, I won't be offended. Astarion is a bastard in the whole sense of the word, lol.

However, I find Astarion an interesting evil (evil neutral imo) char to explore the narration of “abuser who found a greater abuser”, with all the topics I talked about in those posts. I would feel a bit disappointed if Larian suddenly changes him into a man who always had a gold heart (because for that, you need to give hints, even in EA, and none of that has been seen so far).

An example of how this is done is with Shadowheart, she is evil and she supports a lot of cruelty that Astarion does too, but we got meta-knowledge (and not so much meta when we see her heavily drunk after killing the tieflings) that gives us enough reasons to believe she has some heart in her, despite Shar and her teachings. I do not support the idea of “she is a softie”, because she is not, but she doesn't have the same level of cruelty nor revels in murder so much as Astarion does. They represent different degrees of evilness. What plays in her favour is her face, which gives the idea of more softness than she truly has; the same happens with Astarion. Lae'Zel is less cruel than Astarion in general, with more logical reasons to be so because her brainwashed culture made her to be more pragmatic than a taster of cruelty, and yet, she receives a lot of more hate in the fandom... and it is clear to me why: she is not “beautiful” in the traditional white euro-centric standard sense.

And this is my point to answer your question (remember all this is personal opinion): I think there are many reasons why people woobify Astarion (not only in tumblr, but also in Reddit or in Larian Forums, it's a big part of the EA fandom).

First and foremost, I believe it's his appearance. If he were a bugbear or a goblin, few in this fandom would give a thought about his abuse, his pain, Cazador, etc. They would focus on his “bastard” side and leave it at that (again, Lae'Zel has this treatment). I want to make clear that I'm not questioning people's taste, everyone can like whatever they want to. I'm saying that, for me, there it proof enough to sustain this idea that Astarion is woobified because he is beautiful: when you read that a lot of people in this fandom never had an interest in Larian's previous games, or isometric rpgs, or even turn-based combat games (there are some people who are giving feedback against the game being a turned-based combat one! It's the nonsense because it's basically Larian's style), but they bought bg3 because they saw Astarion, even though they knew nothing about him.... All this, clearly, shows to me that a lot of people approached this game for only one char, for only his design (a big amount of them say it explicitly), and it is not far-fetched to know that people justify more easily beautiful villains than ugly ones. We can explore a lot of examples of this in many fandoms. People can love villains because they have real complex reasons to be so (like Loghain in DAO), but they also can like whimsical villains just because they are “hot”. I feel this is Astarion's case, he is a “beautiful villain” who apparently has always been evil. His reasons for his whimsical evilness is more like “it's always been in his nature”. Unless the family part has a different role in his backstory (mirror option) and it's not a mere line for a player to play a “good aligned” Astarion when picked as Origin. I don't like to read much about it in that scene because the game still doesn't have companion Tags; those options in the mirror can be there just for the player to pick, flavoured with each origin, but not necessarily the three of them are canon. This will be seen once we have the companion tags activated as it happened in DOS2.

What we can say for sure is that Larian knew what they were doing when they picked Astarion's design; they choose a dangerous white guy with white hair and evil alignment: an archetype that catches a lot of people in many fandoms.

Part of his woobyfication process has a deep root there, in my opinion. Again, if he were a bugbear, a goblin, a githyanki, a monster-humanoid... we would not have 90% of the EA fandom collapsed with his image, or Larian focused on him to the point that after 4 patches he had new scenes, lines, corrections, and development, while Wyll is still there, sitting in the bench of “the less developed chars” (with around 2k less lines than the rest of the chars, and his personal quest bugged since the first day). Yes, I don't like the preference on one single companion when I am seeing the “future Beast” (from DOS2) in Wyll.

Second, he is a vampire. Vampires are a great element in any fantasy narrative. You know you will have a lot of fans behind a vampire char. Not by chance Vampire The Masquerade is one, if not the most important product of White Wolf, which keeps still giving them a lot of profit despite being decades old. Vampires are always a good element of personal horror, of lack of control of your own body, and also an allegory of abuse, power, and rape. This concept of “being a monster without control” that they embody helps a bit more for the woobification.

Third, people tend to mix a lot headcanon with what a character gives us as canon. We can have a long useless discussion about which is more worthy: canon or headcanon, or about why one should or should not respect canon, but putting all that discussion aside, and considering the previous two points, I see that a small part of his woobyfication comes from the fact that people love denial and self-projection instead of analysing of what they are given (and let's be honest, we know in tumblr, reddit and others social networks, people lack of reading comprehension skills, which makes analysis all about self projection without a real effort in understanding the character's perspective. It's all about the player unilateral perspective. How can you analyse a char you didn’t play with or explored in all its paths? ).

So if their beautiful character is behaving in a way they don't want to, they start considering him “random” (I read this so much that confuses me, because Astarion has clear patterns for everyone who wants to see them, like the rest of the companions. He is not random, he follows pretty well all what I listed here, that list helps you to predict what he will disapprove or approve) so they end up filling this apparent “randomness” with headcanons and self-projections. Don't get me wrong, I don't despise headcanons, I love them, I have a lot of them and create with them. But I also like honest analysis and separate what I want from what I get from a company (to correctly give them feedback, otherwise I will be giving them my headcanons).

If you don't want an aspect of a given char, and you want to deny it, it's perfectly fine. Do it, it's your entertainment, but be honest with the fandom about it, acknowledge this is a personal denial you enjoy. And mainly, don't use headcanons and self-projections to attack the rest of the chars you don't like in their own tags. We know how aggressive some people in this fandom are, and it's a bit frustrating to see aggression without the slightest effort in understanding the character they hate.

There is also something sad to say, related to self-projection, that contributes to Astarion's woobyfication too: a lot of players are survivors of abuse who connect with him from trauma, and I can understand if denying his past is a way to help them to release any kind of pain or need for vengeance against their abusers. It's a natural and totally understandable projection. The woobyfication, then, ends up in an intense self-projection where they give to the char something that they needed because their own trauma.

This is why I would like Larian to give us other survivor chars that people can project onto, whose stories are really about survivors of abuse who were not evil in the beginning. Because I feel a lot of people approached Astarion as a narration of a “victim who will become a victimiser” or as a “bad behaved victim”, instead of what I think it's shown: an abuser who found a greater abuser (and his story is about punishment of the abuser and the concept of justice in a world which has none), so trauma survivors will end up with disappointment if they think Astarion is something similar to the representation of what they experienced. Plus, vampirism is never good to use as allegories of abusers/victims because the relationship Sire/Childe is too sick and twisted. So, again, this is a mere opinion from all what I've been reading since the game came out.

I hope Larian sticks to the narration they seem to follow with Astarion: an abuser who found a greater one, and now wants to become the next Cazador, and this woobifycation doesn't change the real potential of a dark deep story that I believe they want to give us: not every char is redeemable, and sometimes evilness is capricious. We had chars like these in bg1 and bg2 after all. 

[lairofsentinel]

What can we say about the relationship between the tadpole and the person who appears in dreams?

[Baldur’s Gate 3, Early Access, Spoilers]

At a first glance, in a careless attempt, we immediately connect the tadpole with the image of the person in our main char’s dreams. One is inclined to think it is the tadpole itself asking for the host to let them in. However, after carefully watching the scene, and checking all its options... I started to doubt it.

During Early Access we only can see four dreams [video compilation of the dreams]:

The first one, in which only the voice is heard for a couple of seconds, shows a weird... tentacle-like creature? It’s not made of the gray skin of a Mind Flayer, it’s red, and unless it’s a terrible bug... it may say that we are in the presence of something different than the usual Mind-Flayer. In fact, I think it looks like a tiefling or a Cambion tail/wings (they have thorns). Could it be Raphael’s since he is red? How do we explain those boots in the top of the screenshot?. Maybe it’s a mere bug.

The second one, in which the main char awakes in that intense green garden, has a peaceful sense to it.

The third one is when that desired person in the dreams shows you an enemy you stab in self defence, and then you observe an entire city under siege.

The forth one is when you have the ability to kill that person in the dreams.

After having the second dream, we can talk about this with our companions. All of them, except by Astarion, explain that their dreams were about desire and power. About a promise. 

It's clear for us that Gale dreamt about Mystra and Wyll about Mizora. Both women are the embodiment of power and desire. We don't have a clue who Shadowheart dreamt about, but we know is a he that represents the same values. Astarion is the one who disrupts the pattern. 

He dreamt about Cazador, which is for sure the representation of power, but of his desire? At first I thought it was a twisted taste forced onto him over two hundred years of slavery. As a slave, maybe he had to learn how to enjoy the worst things just to endure it, so the incredibly wicked and twisted insinuation of Astarion being attracted to his tormentor... was surprising at first. Especially when you explore his dialogue and he shows a strong bad reaction to such insinuation. 

Thinking about it a bit more, I realised that maybe Astarion “desiring” Cazador is another thing he is forced to do against his own will. Or maybe it's the typical consequence of the vampire relationship with the sire: the childe is always attracted to their sire, no matter how much they hate them. Astarion is not even free of having his own desire due to Cazador's power, so... his dream about Cazador was another display of the control that such figure has over him. Therefore, we can say that, in the end, he is also following the pattern, but his desire is commanded by being a vampire spawn. 

When it comes to the main char, we also know that such figure in their dreams is someone they are attracted to [that's exactly what we were asked to do in the character creation part].

The tadpole in the main character's head reacts negatively to this desired person, and it’s strange. It can mean that the projection of that figure and the tadpole are not the same (Gale, are you wrong?). The figure acknowledges the presence of the tadpole and the transformation in process, and they seem to be in power of stopping it if only you let them “in”. But the presence of the tadpole is always there while interacting with this figure, uncomfortable and wanting to get away from that desired person. The tadpole feels threatened by this figure. 

At times, this beautiful figure feels like an entity proper of a demon, asking you to let it in and possess you. We know by Shadowheart’s comment that this voice appeared in her head when she was in the ship, so that we can assume it started to affect the hosts by the same time the tadpole process started.

The hag provided us the most valuable information I found out in the game. She confirmed that the tadpole has been altered, as everyone had suspected. But not only that... they had netherese magic, shadow magic (*) in it. This, however, feels wrong in terms of lore: mind flayers detest arcane magic, they believe its a corrupt version of the psionic power they have. Mixing it with their traditional birth procedure looks odd. Odd if this new experiment is only their idea. Maybe the big mind behind these new tadpoles is not a Mind flayer.

With this bit of information given by the hag, I was inclined to think that this magical compound may explain the presence of the person in the main char's dreams. What surprises me is that the tadpole wants the figure away, so how is it possible that both, the figure and the tadpole, work one against the other? If we assume that the tadpoles were altered to perform a transformation of some sort, shadow magic embodied by that figure and the tadpole should work together. However, the tadpole triggers hunger and animal instincts to rip that figure out. It feels endangered. Maybe it’s because the whole procedure is an experiment yet.

The desired figure keeps claiming they want you to help, but in the process, they also tell you that you can be more powerful and conquer Baldur's Gate [yes, despite the blurriness, it is enough to distinguish the characteristic entrance of the city].

[image from the trailer]

The last dream is one of the most disturbing ones. You awake with symptoms of your skull starting to change its bones, and apparently, the presence of the figure is the only thing which is preventing the transformation. The figure is irritated. You can ask them for help you because the parasite is going too far. The figure says that they need to go deeper into you to calm down the “animal” inside. And once more the tadpole activates a defence mechanism. 

You can indulge yourself in the desire of destroying the figure apart, and you ride the figure strangling them and killing them. The figure calls you “monster” and tells you that you deserve what's coming for you [which I assume, it's the standard Mind Flayer transformation]. The experiment may have failed in this way since you destroy the stasis.

If you resist the impulse of killing them and at the same time resist the intrusion of the figure, the figure is disgusted with you. The figure only is understandable with you when you tell them the truth about your impulse of killing them. They will state that they knew about it, and they trust you to control it while they go deeper into you. 

It’s disconcerting if the sudden hunger for death comes from the tadpole (I put my coins here) or from the figure going deeper into you. I assume it’s the tadpole because the figure will call you monster and wont be happy if you indulge yourself in that hunger. 

By the end, the figure calls you ungrateful if you resisted them once more and tells you that the next time you meet them, you will ask forgiveness. Early access allows that last dream and no more.

Hypothesis

Now, all these strange urges for murdering the figure makes me wonder if the magical compound that now these tadpole have is related to some evil divine entity, playing a role similar to Bhaal in Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2. In those previous games, you and a bunch of people were direct spawn of the God of Murder, and in a couple of occasions, you had strong urges to kill losing control of your character [and killing NPCs you were fond of]. What if... this new tadpole is an experiment combining the Mind-Flayer procedure of birth (needed in order to have a completely different body for new demi-god powers) with a divine-infused-magical compound from the shadows. What for?. I don’t know... maybe to create an army of demi-gods? [following the usual flavour of Baldur’s Gate series]. 

This procedure, if it’s as such, could allow to have god-spawn creatures without the God sleeping with mortals and waiting mortal-gestation times. xD If we follow this train of thoughts, and we believe a God is behind all this, it must be some tyrant God, like Bhaal or Bane, since the dreams are all about power and control, showing Baldur’s Gate under siege. Maybe the procedure is not perfect, since there are two different effects working one against the other: The shadow magic that infuses a degree of divinity is about desire and power, but the tadpole’s only interest is to go on with the standard Mind-Flayer procedure. 

I thought about this divinity-compound because we saw that there are third parties interested in this new particular tadpole: Raphael. What Gale says to you after his visit is a fact: if a cambion become interested in these tadpoles, it’s because there is more than souls at stakes. But all of these are specualtions. The only certanties are:

Tadpoles are not only Mind-Flayer-made.

They have been altered with Shadow Magic (weird for Mind Flayers).

The Tadpole and the figure which offers you power are different entities.

The more you use powers of command, the more these dreams come and the more it triggers the Mind-Flayer transformation.

The figure in your dreams is the only one preventing the Mind-Flayer transformation.

Conventional tadpoles only cause Mind-Flayer transformation in a week.

Extra information I found later [here]

More content of bg3 in general [here]

-------------

(*) Shadow magic is a Weave-base magic in the Forgotten Realms. It comes from the Shadow Planes connecting to them via the Weave. It's not related to Shadow Weave (an alternate Wave crafted by Shar), something I talked about when explaining some bits of Mystra [here]. You use the standard Mystra-Weave to use shadow magic, but it's not rare that users of shadow magic find some affinity with Shadow Weave. Apparently it's a type of magic strongly related to a human [Tethyrian] ethnic. Churchs of Lolth, Mask, Set, Shar, and Shargaas  show interest in this type of magic.