#and say what you will about helluva boss im not getting into discourse about that but a common criticism i hear is

[mbat]

yknow what, either people want the internet to be censored more, or you want it to be at the level where people are allowed to say fuck cunt shit bitch 2000 times in a 20 minute timespan and im sick of people acting like you can have it both ways

[borgorbelly]

HELLUVA BOSS S1E8: Queen Bee [MY PERSONAL ANALYSIS/OPINIONS]

hoping these two become the “unlikely” opposite super bestie duo

despite Loona’s guarded persona taking Bee’s tone over her words I really have hopes that they’ll grow closer.

LETS DECONSTRUCT SOME FACIAL EXPRESSIONS SHALL WE?

sorry for low quality first pic lets just dive in

okay wait but can we talk about how crisp their facial expressions are? like idk im amazed at how expressive they are for lil animations *sob*

OKAY so as @bibluebutterfly so perfectly highlighted it in a post that wont let me link for whatever reason so im using a screenshot:

I may be reading Beelzebub wrong but I think she’s pretty genuine. Tone-wise she comes off bitchy but I think that has more to do with her character design being the “HBIC” or popular party girl. Her words matter more than the tone of voice they come off in IMO, and during the episode her words and actions show kindness and genuineness (is that a word?).

Her sin is gluttony, so she’s for funsies, for what you want. Throughout the whole episode we see Beelzebub being pretty much a perfect hostess, making sure everyone is okay and having a good time. Bee also alerts Loona of Blitz not doing well - which, lets be objectively honest here- anyone would want someone to do if their loved one is clearly not okay at a party. So W for Queen Bee on that one.

the only time she gets “spicy” so to speak is when Loona took her words the wrong way and got spicy first. She also is shown apologizing to Tex for being that way toward Loona. though i do hope we see a future scene where they acknowledge this and it sparks their friendship or something.

I do think that the “spat” between Loona and Bee was just a simple miscommunication. Loona took Bee’s words differently than Bee meant them. Beelzebub literally meant Blitz was “not okay” emotionally/on an energetic level. NOT that he was a “not okay” kind of guy. and, at no real fault of her own, Loona took it in a hostile way because of her traumatic history. She’s looking for threats everywhere as a safety precaution, and is being self destructive in the process.

I’ve been seeing discourse about the lack of dimensionality to the writing of the female characters and while it didn’t originally cross my mind i do totally agree and want to acknowledge that here. i’m praying that they’ll fix it by giving us a beautiful friendship between Bee and Loona that is vulnerable and multidimensional and fulfilling. maybe even a lil fruity lmao. i love Tex and Bee together tho don’t get me wrong, i’m just musing atp.

also honorable mention to this post by @stolitz-is-endgame that for some reason again i can’t link:

okay so that wasn’t really an analysis of the whole episode, just of the parts that’ve been taking up so much of my brain space. but yeah those are my thoughts. apologies if im just saying things everyone thinks/knows i am just excited and love this show and cant hold in my thoughts any longer.

pls if you have anything to add leave a comment!

[our-inspire-verse]

Its fucking crazy being in the body like this and suddenly it's just, fine? I spent the whole year and a half or more of my existence confused, bothered or otherwise uncomfortable because i couldn't wrap my head around my own existence. Im a fictive, from a pretty popular cartoon. There's sO much discourse for the fandom that that's become a trait of it, how the creator has so much backlash and the fans are very bizzare and bad about it.

I'm from an unfinished media, which makes it very difficult to get a grip on who i turned out to be, why I'm the way i am. I'm left to be forced to not be ABLE to understand myself to the degree many others in the system are because im Blitzø, from Helluva Boss. What even does that mean? My internal form matches him and my memories seem fairly close to his canon, but something about me carries on closer to Brandon rogers himself? Some amalgamation of his characters as well as the broad abstract concept of the experience we had as a system consuming his content. The friends we have maintained with engaging in his stuff together, the times me and my brothers would laugh at him, all those hyperfixated episodes i spent obsessing at him.

And then there's the weird selection of trauma that i carry. This life traumas that don't seem to parallel last life ones, but i can't be so sure of that without knowing more, can i?

But I'm settling, finally. Im doing okay. And as i work through these blocks and manage over all of these things, i have great support from within the system, and from good friends around us (UwU you know who you are buddy)

Anyway, the point of this post is to kinda actually SAY what my experience has been since i dont think ive posted or documented much of it anywhere yet

[dyenasaur]

"None of this impacts the story in a meaningful way." I would have LOVED for you to have said this in chat. I'll give you that we meandered off topic from what you may have wanted but y'know what could have fixed that? You coming back to chat and saying 'hey this is great and all, but I meant this.' Then we could have had MORE discussion and we might even still be friends.

"If the main characters don't care why should I?" "We can draw parallels between what's going on in real life and how hells heierarcy works all day and night but if the people I'm supposed to care about aren't being actively harmed by, or care about it, then what's the point?"

And, to cap it off, a quote from https://www.tumblr.com/theafrochick/759377546226827264/im-not-reblogging-that-post-again-but-i-just-if?source=share , a lovely little vague blog, thank you, "Why aren't we starting the hypothetical revolution by getting rid of the assholes who can actually die without needing special weapons?"

The answer to ALL THREE OF THIS QUESTIONS is that you're looking for a different show. You have somehow missed the point of both Hazbin and Helluva. You're SO LOCKED IN to what you perceive to be a world building error that you're letting the plot completely woosh you.

The main characters don't care because they're being portrayed in a character driven drama that involves a silly little imp and his silly little owl boyfriend and the issues they have as people, directly. That systemic injustice exists is more of a symptom that contributes to their personal conflict. Not that the point of the story is to fix class oppression.

The point is that there isn't one, insofar as what truly counts as 'important to the narrative' in Helluva Boss. Will that change? Maybe! But for right now? The real point is that Blitzo Buckzo is a sad boy with issues, some of which are class based, most of which are not. This is his story and his interpersonal relationships with his employees, a situationship turned ??????, old friends and flames, and the absolute BRICKS that are shat when more than ten penguins show up to eat your face.

We aren't starting the revolution because that's not the story we're telling tonight, little one. Maybe one day Vivzie will get popular enough to pick a point in the timeline wherein a few of Hell's plucky underbelly decide to take matters into their own claws and destroy the Overlord System. The Goetian. The Sins. Whoever and whatever you have decided will satisfy your justice boner and win the discourse wars.

Maybe it's a good thing you don't want back in the server, because I'm not sure you liked the show we were given anyway. I think you really need to come up for air out of the discourse stream for a little bit.

Especially because vague blogging about your own vague blog post that got found is super weird and we'd all really appreciate it if you'd just say shit to our faces instead of wallowing on tumblr about it.

When I get famous I also need people to perform mental gymnastics to justify my lack of consistency and come up with lore reasons for it.

[clulessmess]

in case youre one of those fuckers who don't wanna read that carrd bc its cringe or whatever the shit heres the important stuff you need to know

🚫 DNI(Do NOT Interact):

Everything listed below are things I do not fuck with

Things in bold are people I will not hesitate to block. I dont want any of you fuckers interacting with me at all

Things not in bold, feel free to follow but dont try to send me asks to draw for it, talk about it, etc.

General DNI criteria (i.e racists, LGBT+phobes*, ableists, pedos/MAPs or MAP supporters, alt-right/nazis, etc)

Against BLM or pro cop

Encourage cringe culture

"Anti antis"/pro shippers(you fetishize pedophilia, incest, etc bc "fiction doesnt affect reality". )

Ship or headcanon real people

Dream/Dream SMP fans

FNF(Friday Night Funkin) fans (pico stans however get an IMMEDIATE block)

Fans of Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss or whatever the hell else viv works on

Genshin Simps (you defend mihoyo on everything including the predatory nature of the game, the racism, etc)

*LGBT+phobes includes TERFs, aphobes, biphobes, panphobes, people against neopronouns or he/him lesbians and she/her gays)

⚠️ BYF(Before you Follow):

I post whatever i want on my blog, from funny posts to fandom stuff, dont come here if u just want 1 specific thing on ur dash

Really rb heavy! Sorry if youre only here for my art djgdnfdhnn.

I occasionally rb horror related stuff and I'd generally say this blog is rated 16+. This means that while everyone can follow, expect some gore and the occasional suggestive/sexual jokes here and there. Please blacklist the tags #tw disturbing imagery, #tw gore, #tw blood, #tw mild gore, #tw body horror, #minors DNI(reserved for generally talking abt a NSFW topic), #NSFWish(mild sex jokes like “hehe penis”) and #NSFW(more explicit sex jokes or suggestive joke images) if youre uncomfortable with that!

Asides from that, I only tag the media im into, so feel free to shoot me an ask if you want anything tagged [triggers are tagged tw (insert trigger here)]!

I sometimes rb lefty opinionz and discourse untagged, dont follow if u dont like that stuff in your dash

I usually dont follow back, usually its just that im not interested in what youre posting or have takes I personally don't like. This goes for IRL friends/ppl who know me outside tumblr who wanna follow me here too (its nothin personal bud!)

Extras:

Personal stuff:

namii makes fanart (fanart tag)

namii makes stuff (original art tag)

namii finally speaks (feel free to block this tag, its just me rambling abt stuff and the occaisional vent)

Please tell me if I rb shit from gross ppl too, provided you give me evidence!

[vivlet-evergarden]

hot take for Helluva Boss

there is no excuse for using the r word. none. it is a SLUR, and it’s not suddenly okay to use it because your media is ‘supposed’ to be offensive. i am saying this as someone who REALLY ENJOYED the pilot and doesn’t really care about the vivziepop discourse. i’m just commenting on this specific aspect.

tldr; it adds nothing to the scene, it’s there purely for shock value, making a joke out of it doesn’t make it okay, and if you’re fine with Helluva Boss dropping the r word then you have to be fine with them dropping racist/queerphobic slurs too because it’s literally the same thing, and to say otherwise would be hypocritical to disabled people.

would you defend this choice with the same fervor if it had been a racial slur? homophobic? transphobic? is it suddenly chill for them to just call someone a chink cause you’re trying to be offensive? (i’m chinese that’s the only reason im using the example)

if you really wanna make the argument it’s supposed to show Blitzo is ‘bad’ or that they’re in Hell or whatever..... up until that point, the pilot was doing a perfectly fine job of establishing he’s an asshole demon? also what abt shows like The Good Place, which demonstrates perfectly well what Hell is without dropping slurs? even Hazbin fucking Hotel, made by the same people, doesn’t feel the need to resort to it.

it doesn’t add to the scene at all or make it funnier, which should be the point on a comedic show. no, it’s purely for shock value, and that doesn’t make it any better. it’s shit-tier edgelord humour and i DO expect better out of something that otherwise had great writing. so no, Moxxie calling him out for ‘immaturely insulting’ him doesn’t make me feel any better.

acknowledging you did something shitty doesn’t make it okay, especially if you try to be like ‘it’s just a joke!’ afterwards. and the ‘disclaimer’ at the beginning is even worse, it’s just mocking anyone who even THINKS about having a problem with it. all in all disappointing to see in something i otherwise very much like and want to see more of.

and honestly i don’t even know how to argue with the point that it's ok to say slurs because they showed child murder. child murder isn’t a specific target. the r word is a slur with a very specific meaning that is targeted at disabled people. like yes child murder is bad to a broad audience, but slurs oppress a specific group of people and coincidentally are only found funny by their oppressors. also child murder isn’t ‘offensive’, it’s just shocking and violent?

i don’t know if this is gonna change people’s minds, but i don’t care. i’m just tired of seeing that same argument over and over to excuse this. people always jump to defend use of the r word and it just goes to show how little they actually care about disabled people. already you have ppl watching this and going ‘it’s okay to say slurs!’ 

i don’t care if you liked the pilot. i don’t even care if you think it’s okay, even though i clearly disagree. people are allowed to have a problem with this. you don’t get to dismiss their issues just because you don’t find it offensive. ESPECIALLY if they’re the ones who are targeted by the slur.

[ingayderzim]

not to be that person who asks a googleable question but wtf is hazbin hotel bc i googled it and the only “critical” thing i could find was a typo-ridden article of someone saying it has good animation and its haters are stupid. i was able to glean what it is/what it’s about but idk about the discourse lmao

Im actually so glad u asked this. Here's the lowdown, this is my definitive answer to hazbin shit from here on out, unless new info comes about of course.

Hazbin hotel is an independent cartoon by vivziepop. Most people (that ive seen) have agreed that the pilot of the show really isnt that great but the reason it has so many fans is bc of the entertaining livestreams, massive amounts of canon content produced (she has had these characters for years), unique art style, and the characters. (Ass ugly but unique.)

Its haters are totally justified bc of some of the "controversial" (read: bad) things vivziepop has done. Here's the conclusion that my friends and classmates (several of whom are Black, one Hispanic woman, and one trans woman...nellie if ur reading this i 💜 u) and i came to after discussing this stuff. I am NOT saying "well my black/trans friend said it's ok so i dont have to think about it!" this is based on a few different conversations that my friends and i have had about this topic so what im saying is that my opinion was formed by talking about this situation with multiple people affected by the controversy.

One controversial thing is a drawing u can easily find on google (called beastiality.jpg i believe?) It's a cropped (chest and up, but hes obv naked) drawing of vivziepops character, drawn by vivziepop, moaning, with a snake around him. The character is 17. Many people have interpreted this as child porn. I dont think this image is pornographic, i think it's a stupid joke (it was even tagged as a joke iirc) and completely inappropriate but since it's 8 years old on top of not being porn, i think it's just an example of a dumb drawing. That being said, i would NEVER argue that someone who is uncomfortable w the drawing (im uncomfortable with it! It's gross just not porn) or considers it porn is wrong. They are entitled to that opinion and i would never expose them to vivziepops work or talk about her stuff around them if they expressed to me that they disliked the image.

Another thing is that she drew a doodle of two racist TERFs. This is the one where my friends of color, my friends who are black, and my friends who are trans women took the lead. I sat back for this part and here's their and my opinion on this after talking about it and verbally going through this whole situation.

She was following these women (who had done blackface and stuff) and drew art of them. The art was a "quick doodle" that she did apologize for and she said she didn't realize the extent of their beliefs. She knew they werent great but hadnt consumed much of their content in depth. I believe her bc while ive never followed anyone as bad, ive certainly followed some pieces of shit and didnt notice for months simply bc im not online all the time and bc of the volume of people i follow, combined with the non chronological algorithms lately.

At the risk of screwing myself, im going to admit that there was about a year or so of my life where i enjoyed The Amazing Atheist. I was even subbed to him. I was a nonbinary lesbian (2 things he cant stand lmaoo) in catholic school and therefore i strictly watched his videos about theological stuff since thats what was frustrating me at the time. I had no clue the type of evil racist, transphobic, homophobic (yes ik hes bi), misogynistic things he thought, said, and did, bc i didnt watch those videos. I literally only watched select theological ones that could be of use to me while edgily debating my teachers (sorry mrs macdougal but u had it coming). I was about 15 at the time and im 19 now. Im sorry to everyone i hurt by ever having supported him. I had one of his quotes written in the inside of my religion notebook in high school. I regretted it and ripped the page out the moment i discovered the truth about him. I cant stress enough how much I HATE HIM. Thats an example of what i think happened here tho.

One of my friends who is a trans woman said (paraphrasing) "i think the worst thing shes done is that terf art but i believe the apology especially bc it was a quick drawing."

That being said, i would NEVER argue with someone who wanted nothing to do w vivziepop bc of this. That's their right. 100%. I would never expose them to her work after that.

The last thing i remember is something about a pedophilic couple in a comic but i heard it was a 17 year old and a 19 year old. Im 19 and if one of my peers did that i wouldnt say pedophile but id say ur a fucking weirdo, BUT, the kids were fake and being written by an adult so i can totally see her thinking that age gap is much less of a big deal than it really is. Like she forgot what it's like at this age. Idk how true any of that part is tho, i heard that info entirely secondhand.

Another thing to do with racism is that there's a joke within the show where one character says to the other

"don't get your taco in a twist"

"Was that supposed to be racist or sexist?"

"Whichever one pisses you off more"

I thought that was gross but one of my friends pointed out that vivziepop is of el salvadorian descent so that's her business. Like if i made a lesbian joke of equal or greater offensiveness than that and someone tried to call me lesbophobic over it id be like "that's literally my territory."

Oh speaking of which that character's name is vaggie and shes a lesbian but it's not pronounced w the same G you'd hear in "vagina." Vivziepop seems to name characters weirdly (like how in helluva boss theres a guy named blitzo and the o is silent) so maybe it's a pussy joke but i have no idea.

The animation was.................better than i could do, i wanna say the faces and gestures were good but god i remember there was a part with a car and my gf had to pause so i could laugh my ass off at it. I wouldn't describe the animation as a highlight but i liked the style in motion i thought it was a fun change. Vivziepops style is not appealing imo but i appreciate it as an art student and as someone whose friends all like she ra and steven universe where every character looks the goddamn motherfucking same, and while its chaotic and i dont care for it, the style actually works way better in motion than you'd think.

A good rule that i def use is to assume hazbin fans are guilty until proven innocent. If someone says they dont care about the discourse surrounding it and like it no matter what, RUN! They would support the show even if the creator was in fact a pedophile, or had done the blackface/was a terf herself! They probably support some horrible ppl and are probably "anti antis." A lot of them are minors tho so i'd say block and move on.

So, do i like it or not? Im an art student and all my friends like it so while i didnt think it was funny, i do fuck with it. At the convention this weekend my friends and i had a convo that led to me drawing an ahego hoodie where the faces were angel dust (a character's) face. It was a joke that i could make a killing by selling that in a booth at a con.

Theres really nothing compelling about the show but my friends like it so i join in on their conversations, and i do have a soft spot for angel dust bc he's like a worse, less amazing and gorgeous version of one of my characters, Candy, the love of my life.

A lot of people say the show was edgy/offensive and maybe im just desensitized but besides the taco thing i didnt pick up on that whatsoever??? The Archer episode "Swiss Miss" is worse than helluva boss and hazbin combined and even archer isn't offensive.

Im probably not aware of all the "discourse" (aka people being reasonably uncomfortable by weird and bad shit this random woman has done, and other ppl saying their opinions are wrong when it's literally just an opinion about a show) so if anything she's done isnt included in here it's not to defend vivziepop, this is genuinely all i know. I wouldnt describe myself as a fan of hers.