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ariainstars · 4 years ago

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Will Din Djarin and Grogu Have to Part?

Since this question has been discussed quite controversially in the fandom since the second season of The Mandalorian, here are my two cents about it.

Luke and Anakin

A subject my husband and I can’t agree upon 😉 is the character of Luke Skywalker. I always liked him, while my husband finds him annoying. But consider: Luke’s hotheadedness, his naivety, his obstinacy, are perfectly normal for a young man of nineteen or twenty. Given A New Hope’s roots in classic Western, Luke is the typical greenhorn, who tries to man it up but doesn’t know how to do it yet. Luke is a normal adolescent with dreams and ambitions. Remember how we see him playing with a toy skyhopper at his uncle’s homestead? He obviously feels safe there. His aunt and uncle later even sacrifice their lives rather than revealing to the Imperial stormtroopers where R2D2 is, because they know that Luke went in search of the droid, and they don’t want them to find him. Luke is a good boy though raw and green. In the end, his story is a success because he chooses to use his powers to save the ones he cares about, even when it’s a father who, except for saving his life at the last moment, never did anything good for him.

Now compare him to Anakin Skywalker, his father, at the same age: many fans define young Anakin as a whiny, arrogant brat and they’re not so wrong with that. Anakin comes over as an irritating person, much more so than his son, because he is emotionally stunted, having spent the last ten years being told to stifle his emotions and not to allow any personal attachment. Which blatantly failed: we see right away that his bond with Padmé is still intact although they didn’t meet in the meantime, and we witness him getting mad with fury and hatred when his mother has to die in that cruel, meaningless way when he could have saved her had he arrived just a little sooner. Young Anakin is unbalanced and frustrated because by now he knows his enormous powers but is not allowed to use them in a way that actually makes sense to him. Anakin is a family man: his instinct is to protect. But at age nineteen, thanks to the uncompassionate mindset of the oh-so wise Jedi, he already is a ticking bomb.

Now to Our New Heroes…

While the first season was about Mando’s redemption and hero’s journey, the second one thematizes the development of the child. Until now he hardly wielded the Force and most of the time he’s just being cute and getting into trouble, but that’s not simply bothersome, nor is it unfitting for the narrative: it’s normal. Grogu is being a child at last, because he can, and he can because someone is looking after him and genuinely caring for him.

Look at him: the little cookie monster is having a blast. He’s meeting people and making friends. He’s enjoying life (including food). He can let go, because he knows that “daddy” has his back. Literally!

Which is why I don’t believe that Grogu will choose to join some Jedi or other: it would be pointless for his story. Grogu has the chance to be the child he could not be until now, and since he thankfully ages slowly, he’s taking that chance. Like with his predecessor Yoda, there is more to Grogu than meets the eye: he understands more than he lets on. He’s making experiences, and he’s learning from these experiences. Instinctively, he wants Mando because he wants belonging. My take is that he will learn how to have healthy attachments, and that if he is to be the future Yoda in some distant new tv show or new trilogy, he will be very different from this one in that he won’t discourage Force-sensitive children from learning how to love other people in a proper way. Also, Yoda lived mostly at the Jedi temple, which from the outside reminded of an ivory tower and indeed did shield the Jedi from seeing many of the ugly things happening outside. Grogu is travelling: he witnesses the injustices in the galaxy with his own eyes.

One of the crucial messages of the Star Wars saga always was how wrong it is to separate families. Palpatine’s greatest villainy was making people who belonged together mistrust one another until they resorted to violence. What’s worse, he enjoyed it.

To remain in balance, children need to grow up serene and protected. Anakin, the Dark Father, was the most blatant example for this: his mere existence was a living proof for the Jedi’s failure. Terrified of his former padawan’s turn to the Dark Side, Obi-Wan set the seal on his fate right when Padmé was succeeding into making him go away with her. The Jedi was aware that Anakin was a husband and future father at this point, but the convictions of the Jedi had been so deeply ingrained into his mind since he was small that he believed them to be more important than Anakin’s role not as a Jedi, but as a human being. Still twenty years later, he tried to trick Anakin’s own son into killing him. Anakin’s soul was saved, though only by a hair’s breadth, due to his son’s stubborn compassion. Anakin had been willing to sacrifice everything to save his wife; Luke chose to rather give up his life than his integrity, which is why the moment when he throws his light sabre away before Palpatine is so significant, setting him apart from Anakin.

None of the surviving Jedi would have lifted a finger for Anakin: to them, he was a damned man. Which he was, but that was largely also due to the Jedi’s sins and not only his own. They never showed regret or assumed that they might have wronged him. The aim of both the prequel and sequel trilogy was not to excuse Darth Vader’s / Anakin Skywalker’s or Kylo Ren’s / Ben Solo’s terrible deeds, but to demonstrate that their fate could have been avoided; that they were not alone with their guilt but had been for a large part pushed into their role by their environment, instead of being, as the cliché runs, “mad guys who choose to be evil because they want power”, like e.g. in a James Bond movie. (Except of course for Palpatine, but even he got a second chance through Rey, equally powerful but much more well-meaning than him.)

Conclusions

The message of Star Wars is not about the all-powerful Jedi and the significance of their order: they are not some kind of superheroes who will return and save the galaxy. I daresay that who hopes to see Luke Skywalker, e.g. instructing Grogu, will be bitterly disappointed. If Luke would enter the narrative, the story would become about him, making the show’s set-up and title pointless. His story, the Hero’s Journey, was accomplished with Return of the Jedi, which is why George Lucas never wrote a continuation. Luke himself developed his capacities instinctively, both Obi-Wan and Yoda had little time to train him. (So much also for Rey being “a Mary Sue who knows how to wield her power without training”.) It obviously does not take years and years of learning at a Jedi temple to learn to wield one’s Force powers: it appears that what padawans are taught there, more than anything else, is how to control their feelings. Which is unrealistic on the long run, because every living being wishes for personal fulfilment and even the greatest Jedi can’t live solely for others.

Will the child’s Force abilities fade in time without training, the way Ahsoka said? They won’t. The show is set some 25 years after the fall of the Jedi Temple, and yet Grogu managed to make a mudhorn float in the air with his power. He was exhausted afterwards, but he managed. In another episode he healed Greef Karga from a mortal wound and he is the first Force-sensitive whom we ever saw with this capacity. In the next episode he rejected a fireball with his bare hands. The Force is strong with this one. He does not need a Jedi master to train him. What he needs is to develop a good judgement about what he should use his powers for, and when he should not.

The saga as a whole always showed a clear structure where the puzzle pieces fit together, adding up to one final picture: life is not about power but about love and belonging. Power can win, but that victory is always short-lived. Who chooses power over compassion in the end will always lose and have to look back on a destroyed world where there are only losses and bitter memories.

Ever from the first episode, The Mandalorian lived from the dynamics between the gruff but kind bounty-hunter and the innocent yet powerful child. At its core, it is a father-son relationship: tear them apart and the whole story ceases to make sense. By the beginning of season 2 Din Djarin and Grogu have grown so close that you could hardly fit a sheet of paper between them. Their story is not about rebuilding the Jedi order, it is about healing together, overcoming loneliness and trauma, starting a new life together.

Maybe they will be separated at the end of the second season, e.g. by Moff Gideon who wants the child for his despicable experiments: but if that happens, I can foretell what the next season will be about:

Mando will move heaven and hell to get “his” child back under his protection. Because contrarily to both Luke and Anakin, he is a father, and a good and devoted one at that.

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unexpectedreylo · 5 years ago

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Closing Arguments For Reylo

After it seems like we’ve spent a year anticipating this movie--from the film wrap in February to the teaser trailer in April to the Vanity Fair stuff in June to the D23 trailer at the end of August to the Road To TROS stuff to this final trailer and the onslaught of press for the film--we’re finally in the home stretch.

Who will live? Who will die? Will Reylo ride off into the sunset, a HEA at last for a Star Wars couple, will it end in tragedy or worse yet, will it end in a vague incoherent muddle? After all, no fairy tale ends with “they lived ambiguously ever after.”

I think we’re all going to be nervous sitting in the theater come Dec. 18-20 because whether we believe “leaks” or not, we’re just not going to know for sure until we see the film. I’m almost as nervous about their misusing/under-using Adam in this film as I am about the filmmakers blowing Reylo.

Yet of all of the sequel films, I’m the most confident about this one going in. This is the last film in this story and it’s not going to end with the message that the Skywalker family was somehow a mistake or some curse upon the galaxy that needed to be eliminated, while the few positive aspects about the Skywalkers are handed off to Rey because she’s such a nice girl. It’s not going to end like Romeo and Juliet. It’s not going to end without redemption for Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. The final chapter in the series is not only going to redeem him but everyone else who screwed up before him. It’s going to end this conflict and a Jedi Order 2.0 is going to arise. There will be a big party at the end. It will give you cavities and possibly blood sugar spikes.

As far as I’m concerned, Rey and Ben being together--in LOVE--is an integral part of that happy ending. Cinderella gets her prince. Beauty finds true love with the man who had been the Beast. Anastasia marries Christian Grey and has a baby. There’s just no such thing as a heroine who cheerfully ends up without her lover and in spite of what a lot of people think, Star Wars spends far more time utilizing traditional storytelling tropes (though in new ways) than subverting them. Like I wrote in my piece about gothic romances, the woman gets the man, the manor, and the money. Rey walks into TROS already with the metaphorical substitutes for the manor (the Falcon) and the money (the objects associated with the Skywalker family). She’s already in with her potential mother-in-law. All she needs is for Ben to show up to the metaphorical/literal wedding.

And everything is pointing toward that happening. I’m not saying TROS will end with Ben and Rey in a wedding or Rey waddling about preggers. Maybe it will end that way, maybe it won’t. But it will at minimum pair them together a la Han and Leia at the end of ROTJ.

First, let’s take on the only legitimate, in-universe obstacles to Rey and Ben being in a romantic relationship. No, I don’t mean that they could be related. What I do mean is that there are two things that would prohibit romance: one is obvious...no Bendemption. But I’m certain it is going to happen. The other is the old school Jedi prohibition against forming attachments, including romantic relationships. Many fans expect this deeply unpopular rule to be cast aside. But in the name of fairness, it bears pointing out that so far, this deeply unpopular rule hasn’t been cast aside in the movies. Sure there was a bit in the TLJ novel implying Luke wasn’t fond of this deeply unpopular rule but on the other hand, he lived it. Generalissima Leia did lots of other things but never became a Jedi herself. Maybe she was too busy. Or maybe she’d rather bonk Han to her heart’s content than become a space nun. There’s been some recent news that Leia was originally set to finally take up the Jedi mantle in the last ST film, something that obviously changed after Carrie’s passing in 2016. Note that this would have been after Leia had become a widow. Several months ago I’d listened to a podcast containing an interview with former Lucasfilm employee J.W. Rinzler. He revealed that while the expanded universe was allowed to go nuts with Jedi romances and marriages, Lucas kept grumbling that “Jedi aren’t supposed to marry!” He disliked Mara Jade partially for this reason.

Of every argument against Reylo happening that is the one that no one seems to take seriously yet it’s far more likely to be an issue than a sudden revelation of Rey Skywalker-Solo. The question is were Chris Terrio and J.J. Abrams willing to say, “Hey George, your rule sucks so we’re gonna throw it out” to Lucas’s eternal annoyance? Or, is the coupling of Rey and Ben supposed to have happened all along, even in Lucas’s drafts? Are Rey and Ben a glaring exception to the rule?

My argument is that they are going to be an exception. Reylo is not just about hot people hooking up, it’s about mystical forces coming together in a union that will bring the peace and stability that has evaded the galaxy since the Clone Wars. In other words, it’s a divine marriage. Ben and Rey are not ordinary Force users. They are extraordinary among the extraordinary. We already know Ben’s tremendous raw power comes from being literally the great-grandson of the Force itself. Rey I’m sure is something very similar, a demigoddess of sorts. Ben and Rey will demonstrate one can love deeply without it corrupting into selfishness, possessiveness, obsession, and everything else that led Anakin into believing killing his comrades to save Padmé was a really good idea.

Okay, let’s look at some hard evidence.

What’s the one word that keeps coming up over and over again with Rey and Kylo/Ben?

Intimacy.

Or some variation thereof:

“At the premiere I heard somebody in the balcony say, “Yesssss!” You can see Adam was training hardcore throughout the whole process. It’s fun but it also has a specific purpose, which is the increasing feeling of uncomfortable intimacy. That was sticking with the theme of trying to give Rey the hardest thing you could possibly give her, which would be unavoidable intimate conversation with this person that she wants to just hate. This was just one more way of upping that ante.”--Rian Johnson, Los Angeles Times, December 18, 2017

“It’s all about those Force connection scenes. The keyword being intimacy. And the idea that this was a way to just, why not step that up?(...)And so it was just another way of kind of disrobing Kylo literally and figuratively a little bit more, and pushing that sense of these conversations becoming increasingly more intimate.”--Rian Johnson, People magazine Dec. 23, 2017

“They just had this horrific fight, but Rian wanted this incredible intimacy and this cascading, twinkling waterfall of sparks from the fight before.”--Ben Morris, ILM Visual Effects Supervisor, Collider Dec. 25, 2017

“Even to the point where Adam flew to Ireland just to be off camera for Daisy’s stuff, which was essential because they’re such intimate conversations.”--Rian Johnson, People magazine Jan. 6, 2018

“That came about first and foremost from wanting a sense of intimacy”--Rian Johnson, Force of Sound Documentary Feb. 20, 2018

“And have it, you’re in their heads with just that intimacy.”--Matthew Wood, Supervising Sound Editor, Skywalker Sound Feb. 20, 2018

“Having a big sound there just didn’t have the intimacy that the scene demanded. It can be so hard to get the balance right to where the audience is feeling the same thing as the characters.”--Michael Semanic, Re-recording mixer Skywalker Sound, Postperspective Feb. 21, 2018

“But we fall back on romance because it's the best analogue we have. Rey and Kylo's relationship is more intimate than that. They've literally been in each other's minds. Rey's seen his deepest fears; he's seen the past she's buried. None of us have had that experience.”

“My point is romance may not be the endpoint of that. (Though it may be.) The analogue may be misleading, because it's an analogue. Their connection is deeper and stranger and far more complicated. I think TFA/TLJ covers those complications wonderfully, with Ep IX promising more.”--Jason Fry on Twitter Nov. 26, 2018

“At times it’s more intimate, sometimes less intimate.”--Adam Driver, Entertainment Weekly, December 2019

Relationships that are intimate aren’t necessarily romantic or sexual in nature but in modern parlance, it’s often used as a euphemism for a romantic or sexual relationship, or for sex itself i.e. “Tyler and Kaitlyn weren’t intimate until they got married.” Because of that, it would be hella weird if they described a familial or friendly relationship in this way. If I didn’t want my audience to believe there’s anything that could possibly be sexual happening between my characters--especially between an eligible attractive man and an eligible attractive woman--I would avoid using the term “intimate.”

If that doesn’t sell it for you, consider these statements:

“It’s the closest thing we’ll ever get to a sex scene in Star Wars”--Rian Johnson re the hand touch in TLJ. (Who the hell says that about cousins? Or just friends?)

“it is certainly true there is a romantic drama...”--Rian Johnson, some Japanese interview from 2017. (By the way this was misquoted into stating there was no romance in TLJ at all.)

“I (Rian) disagreed with John (Williams) twice regarding the score. For example, there's a scene where Kylo Ren and Rey touch hands, before they are interrupted by Luke Skywalker. When John wrote the score (for this scene), he was very protective of Rey's character, exactly as is Luke. Kylo ('s presence) was menacing, musically speaking. It's a valid point of view, but I didn't think of the scene like that. I wanted it to stay on Rey's POV: I wanted that we could believe in this romance.”--Rian Johnson, Classica magazine April 25, 2019 (Note: this is an interview from English to French then translated here and here back to English but the word “romance” is the same in both languages.)

The above statements and various others we’ve all seen over the years are helpful to explain what we’ve seen in the past two films: they’re building toward something.

On one level, the filmmakers are building toward another alliance between our space children, like what they had in TLJ. It’s obvious that they will need to team up to defeat Palpatine because who else could? It’s also obvious that they are key to the Force being in balance. There has been interesting speculation on Twitter about how those forces will come together and the symbolism of a marriage by uniting mystical objects.

But being Force buddies in a tag team match against Palpatine isn’t quite high enough stakes. Nor is “might makes right” the message of Star Wars. These two have to be willing to fight for each other, to the death if necessary. They have to have something to live for as well. They have to have the secret sauce that Darth Sidious doesn’t have. And what I’m talking about is love. Not just the compassionate love of agape (that’s what Anakin was talking about in AOTC but he meant it differently of course) or the friendship love of philia but also the powerful, creative love of eros. It’s basically what was happening in the throne room scene in TLJ. They were fighting for each other and the future they saw when they touched hands. Come on, nobody is going to do any of that just to find an apprentice or to convince someone to join an insurrection you barely spent any time with yourself.

A divine marriage between the two most powerful Force users will end the war and herald in a new age. Either they are a new incarnation of the Prime Jedi or they will become the mother and father to this incarnation.

Plus they will kiss and get in a lot of nookie. The end.

Credits: r/starwarsspeculation, @reylo-evidence-collection, r/starwarscantina, @reylo5 (Instagram),

#reylo #reylo fandom #reylo fam #rey x kylo ren #rey x ben #tros #bendemption #hea

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gffa · 6 years ago

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Second question. I love love love Anakin to the moon and back. But, idk if it's this new tumblr's culture of "no problematic shit allowed", I have to admit a lot of people either bash him or Darth Vader in particular. Do you think how Anakin was characterizated in the prequels is a good portrayal of his feelings and actions? Is he an irredimable, pure, wondeful villain or we're allowed to be sympathetic towards him despite what he did? Do you think his eventual redemption arc is satysfing?

In my experience, the “no problematic shit allowed” has swung in the other direction for Anakin, in that his actions and choices are justified because he was sad about some stuff and clearly no one ever tried to help him ever, definitely no one ever repeatedly tried to talk to him about stuff and he definitely never consistently rebuffed them. –I say with a genuine teasing tone!I think the canon (and word of god commentary) was pretty clear about how we’re meant to sympathize with Anakin to a degree, starting out with The Phantom Menace, where George Lucas says a lot of people were mad because they wanted Baby Vader to be this little demon kid and he wasn’t, he was a good boy who had too much power and didn’t want to learn the difference between compassionate love and possessive love.If we weren’t meant to be sympathetic to Anakin, we wouldn’t have scenes like him crying over his mother’s death, crying at Padme about what he’d done and collapsing into a heap, desperately hurting because he lost control of himself. If we weren’t meant to be sympathetic to Anakin, we wouldn’t see him crying while trying to decide if he should stay back in the Temple or go help Palpatine because he wants to save Padme’s life, no matter the cost. If we weren’t meant to be sympathetic to Anakin, we wouldn’t get so many scenes of him being charismatic, being adorable (the ENTIRE FIRST HALF HOUR OF ROTS is Anakin and Obi-Wan’s delightful banter, there’s SO MUCH of AOTC where Anakin may be a brat, but he’s a sweet brat). If we weren’t meant to be sympathetic to Anakin, Obi-Wan would never have tried to save him throughout that entire fight on Mustafar. Of course we’re meant to be sympathetic to Anakin, his anxieties and fears, rather than just having him be Baby Vader from the beginning.For contrast, one of the things that I found interesting about Krell is that Dave Filoni talks about why they wrote him the way they did, that he was very obviously a villain from the beginning, because he didn’t want kids to get invested in this hero, only to be devastated when he was actually bad, that we already get this with Anakin. If Star Wars wanted us to hate Anakin, they would not have been subtle about it.But at the same time, we’re not meant to excuse Anakin’s actions because he’s sympathetic, either. He makes monstrous choices and he absolutely had the wisdom to know better. He has people who offer to talk to him–Obi-Wan does so repeatedly, Ahsoka also mentions how he doesn’t talk to her about his past ever–but he turns away from their help. His fears aren’t the problem, they’ve never been the problem, but instead from the very moment he came to the Jedi, his choice to not face them, to not admit to them being there, to not be willing to work on them and let them go, has been the problem. This is why I loved Dark Lord of the Sith so much, because it’s a 25 issue comic that illustrates all these other choices Anakin had (he could have left the Jedi, he could have returned to the light, he could have taken Palpatine out, he could have asked Obi-Wan for help, he could have done so many different things, and instead his answer to literally having these shoved into his brain is, “No. This is all there is.”) and this is why I love the short story Master and Apprentice from From a Certain Point of View.“Anakin became a Jedi Knight,” Obi-Wan interjects, a thread of steel in his voice. “He served valiantly in the Clone Wars. His fall to darkness was more his choice than anyone else’s failure. Yes, I bear some responsibility—and perhaps you do, too—but Anakin had the training and the wisdom to choose a better path. He did not.” (–Master and Apprentice, From a Certain Point of View, Claudia Gray)This is specifically why his return to Anakin Skywalker as a Force Ghost is so meaningful, in that he finally let go of all that rage, that hate, that fear. It wouldn’t mean anything if he hadn’t spent his entire life holding onto those fears and anger and hate, just like the climactic fight on Mustafar wouldn’t mean anything if we weren’t heartbroken by it, which we wouldn’t be if we weren’t meant to love Anakin, just as much as we hate him for murdering children and stabbing the family that took him in in the backs.Anakin’s story is satisfying because it’s an illustration of how someone so bright can go so wrong, how the hurts we all deal with can eat away at us if we don’t actively face them and work through them. How we can lose our way if we get too far into our own justifications because we’re afraid of things we don’t want to deal with and don’t want to face. He doesn’t want to face that death is a part of life, that sometimes we have to let go of the feelings inside us because they’re eating away at our hearts, no matter how special those feelings make us feel.It’s important that he was a good person at one point in time, how he returned to that person by doing what he should have done a long time ago, how it’s not too late for him to find inner peace and redemption. How being selfless is narratively rewarded. How the truth of Darth Vader is, as George Lucas says, “He’s done a lot of horrible things in his life that he isn’t particularly proud of. Ultimately, he’s just a pathetic guy who’s had a very sad life.“Anakin Skywalker lived a sad life, because he made terrible choices and couldn’t let go of what was eating him, never really wanted to do the hard internal work for it. There are few people who can’t relate to that on at least some level, being afraid to look at the worst things inside ourselves. I mean, that’s why the Force is what it is, that George laid it out as the light is the good things within us, that the dark is the selfish and greedy things within us, that we have to face both, that discipline is the only way to turn back to the light, that we all have a choice, but the world works better if you’re on the side of good.Anakin’s story has impact and meaning because his story is the central story of Star Wars, the themes of Star Wars are the themes of Anakin Skywalker. The prequels fill in this context brilliantly, to show us that he was both an incredible hero and an incredible villain. That his good choices do not negate his villainy and his monstrous choices do not negate the good in him, they’re both an important part of the equation, just like the light and the dark are both important parts of the Force and it’s up to you to choose how to navigate them. Whether to be good or to be evil, the potential for both is in all of us, and ultimately Star Wars is about choice. And about breaking our hearts–which you can’t do, if you’re not meant to find even the second worst villain of the entire Saga to be sympathetic in many ways!

#adharaskywalker #anakin skywalker #meta

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wonderfulworldofmichaelford · 5 years ago

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Psycho Analysis: Darth Vader

(WARNING! This analysis contains SPOILERS!)

Here he is. The big one. The world’s most famous villain of all time, and this is no exaggeration; even people with only a fleeting knowledge of Star Wars, even people who have never seen it before in their lives, probably know who Darth Vader is. The dedicated an entire trilogy to showing how he ended up this way, and an entire trilogy to defeating him, and even after he’s dead his shadow looms over the new trilogy.

It’s really not hard to see why, either; everything about him just screams cool. He’s an intergalactic dictator wizard monk cyborg with a laser sword who has a castle on a lava planet and a space station the size of the moon that blows up planets, and that’s not even getting into the fact that he has the voice of Mufasa. Darth Vader is an icon, plain and simple, and if you think his status is all surface-level, well, this will hopefully show you there’s more to him.

Actor: There are a lot of people who put in the time to bring Vader to life, but let’s just go over the most notable actors. A lot must be said of David Prowse, the man in the suit during the original trilogy; while James Earl Jones’ voice certainly did a lot of work towards making Vader as intimidating and cool as he is, Prowse’s physical presence should absolutely not be understated. He’s the one who does the movements, who walks into the scenes, he was the one physically there, and it really cannot be said enough that he is a key aspect of why the original Vader worked, even if his voice was nowhere near intimidating enough.

Jones, of course, had a voice that was intimidating enough, and while Prowse brought the physical intimidation, Jones brought the vocal brilliance. Vader’s voice is so oft-arodied and iconic, and it’s all thanks to James Earl Jones’ stellar performance. IT’s just absolutely legendary no matter which way you cut it, to the point where even when he’s portraying a freshly-christened Vader who is still in the mindset of a whiny Anakin and screaming a massive NO to the heavens, he’s still awesome.

Of course, that does bring us to Anakin Skywalker, portrayed by Hayden Christensen, and who is the most divisive actor who played Vader, albeit in his pre-cyborg form. I think a lot of the problems Christensen was criticized for while portraying Vader in the prequels was due to Lucas and his poor direction, and not due to any inherent fault on his part, as Christensen is a good actor otherwise. Case in point: any scene in Revenge of the Sith where Christensen does not have to speak and instead has to rely on giving evil glares or just looking intimidating works. I think he does a great job in Revenge of the Sith overall, and his portrayal of Anakin definitely works best in that prequel due to him really selling the frustration of his superiors not taking him seriously or trusting him, which makes his eventual slide into villainy after putting his trust in Palpatine a lot easier to swallow.

Motivation/Goals: Vader’s motivations and goals are not exactly where he shines, as it is pretty standard evil overlord stuff: he wants to crush the rebels, serve his master, and do whatever needs to be done to ensure that the power he has does not get taken away. It’s standard stuff, and even at the time it likely wasn’t a wholly original idea, but part of the reason it probably feels so generic nowadays is that so many people in every art form imaginable – books, TV, video games, and other movies – have ripped Vader off to the point where he almost appears to be a generic doomsday villain if you only look at a summary of his goals. Thankfully, this is far from the case.

Personality: Vader’s personality is where he really shines. Revenge of the Sith paints the portrait of a brilliant, talented young man who is constantly looked down upon and ignored by his peers despite his numerous successes and who is unable to openly be with the woman he loves and who carries his children due to ridiculous rules; is it any wonder he was taken advantage of by a predatory elder and groomed into a psychopath, only realizing far too late what had been done to him? This aspect of his personality has often been criticized by those who hate the prequels, but I think it is important to show that Vader was once a normal, frustrated young man who honestly had good intentions and wanted to protect others, because it helps make his eventual turn away from the Dark Side and redemption at least be a little believable.

Once he truly becomes the Vader we all know and love, he loses sight of who he was and buries himself in the Vader persona. What happened on Mustafar with Padme and Obi-Wan broke Anakin, and so he truly throws himself into the Darth Vader identity. He becomes cold, ruthless, and downright terrifying, with only brief glimpses to the cornier, kinder persona that the man who hates sandf with a passion once had, the moment where he makes a lame pun in Rogue One being the perfect example of the cheesy Anakin of the prequels shining through if only for a brief moment before Vader’s final scene in Rogue One shows that Anakin has once more been suppressed and the terrifying Vader persona is out in full force, with the real Anakin only breaking through in the end to restore balance to the Force.

Final Fate: Vader, in a final act of heroism, picks up Palpatine and tosses him down into a pit to save the life of his son Luke. Ultimately, this means that Vader fulfilled that prophecy from so long ago and restored balance to the Force, redeeming him in the eyes of his son and allowing him to become one with the Force itself and stand beside his former mentors Obi-Wan and Yoda in the final scene. It is a bit cheesy and even a little hard to swallow if you think too hard, but come on, it’s a fun space opera where good triumphs over evil and true love prevails, so just let Anakin have his little redemption.

Best Scene: The scene in which he emerges from the pitch black hallway in Rogue One and mercilessly slaughters a group of rebels with absolutely no effort, washing away decades of diminishing returns and undermining of his threat level in under a minute as the franchise reestablishes Vader as the horrifying threat he originally was.

Best Quote: Can it really be anything other than the (at the time) mind-blowing reveal he drops on Luke in The Empire Strikes Back after Luke accuses him of killing his dad? Say it with me now:

“No, I am your father.”

Some of you probably said it wrong, but I can assure you the line written above is exactly as it was said in the movie.

Final Thoughts & Score: There’s honestly no denying the level of impact Darth Vader has had; I’d say he’s up there with characters like Mickey Mouse and Mario, just an instantly identifiable character anyone off the top of their heads can name. George Lucas struck gold when he came up with this guy, that’s for sure. Is it any wonder that there are so many characters all across fiction who draw inspiration from Vader?

Vader stands tall as one of the greatest creations in pop culture, and though characters that copy him tend to offer diminishing returns – with a few notable exceptions, of course – he definitely is a wonderful source of inspiration, especially when it comes to designing a character who is still interesting and absorbing despite having seemingly simple, cliched motives. And while it is true Vader comes off as a bit cliched these days because he pretty much wrote the book on a lot of the cliches attributed to him and his ripoffs, my point still stands, because even in modern times you’d be hard pressed to hear anyone call Vader a poor villain despite his main goal basically being “kill rebels.”

Vader is a rare breed, and so deserves a rare score. He is the only villain as of now I think truly deserves an 11/10. He is the villain other villains wish they could be. He is the most striking character in the entire cast. He’s so downright cool, is it any wonder his own grandson decided to emulate him by becoming his biggest fanboy?

While Vader does ultimately redeem himself in the end, it serves as a culmination of one of the most profoundly tragic character arcs in cinema, as a wide-eyed idealistic boy full of love, hope, and a sense of righteousness is slowly and surely broken down by the world around him and the very heroes he idolized to the point where he is preyed upon by a predatory authority figure who whispers everything he wants to hear in his ear and offers him something he never got before: respect… and then from there, his life spirals downward ever further, until he ends up being utterly consumed by hatred as he burns alive on an alien planet before the man he considered a friend and a brother, the knowledge that his wife feared him in his mind as he was fried to a crisp; and when he is finally brought back as a cyborg, his first moments awake again are shaken by the revelation his wife is now dead, and he is responsible. And then from his lowest point, we see Vader climb again into the light, extremely slowly, until that final choice he makes where he can either do the right thing as he was always meant to or continue subjugating the galaxy that beat him down and abused him.

The fact he chose to be good in the end despite everything in his life prior, despite all of the crimes he committed, really makes him a far more interesting character than if he had been straight-up evil to the core. Instead, he is the ultimate darkly tragic fallen hero given one last shot of redemption in the arms of death. It’s beautiful in the cheesy, dramatic way only Star Wars can be, and I think that more than anything is why Vader has endured as a cultural icon, because at his core he is everything beautiful, tragic, and cheesy about Star Wars rolled into one awesome, black-clad Sith Lord.

#Psycho Analysis #Darth Vader #Star Wars

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jenniferladybug · 5 years ago

Text

Essay Wars - it’s a doozy

Last night my friend got in a texting debate about the story structure and character developments of Star Wars (a majority of it Kylo Ren). Well, what started off as my vigorous texting writing turned into full-blown essay responses.

Alright, let’s get into how this actually happened.

First, I was so excited about The Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer and I began to sing praises for Kylo Ren/Bendemption. My friend did not like that...so I whipped out the big guns.

I began to send scattered texts about certain things, mostly pertaining to:

Kylo Ren was turned to the dark side before he was even born via Bloodline, where Leia describes a dark presence over her womb.

Someone must be impersonating Darth Vader when Kylo goes to the Vader mask for advice.

Leia and Han were emotionally neglectful/did not know how to raise their son in the right way, mixed with brainwashing lead to Kylo Ren.

The Jedi are not good for the galaxy (yes, yes I know, but see my explanation down below...if you last that long)

Kylo wants to let the past die and start fresh with a new ‘order’, leave behind the Sith, Jedi, First order etc.

I also rambled on about a few other things in separate texts, but that is the gist of it.

So, in response to my scattered texts I received this from my friend Sammy, and oh boy was I ready:

So, let’s start with the story of Ben. The dark side since before he was even born thing is interesting and the fact that he’s been influenced his entire life by it is something they should have made much more clear in the films. That’s actually one of the problems I have with this new expanded universe- it just seems like damage control for the movies. The Previous EU EXPANDED everything, giving backstory to the characters we know and understand, in addition to secondary characters. Hell, they even gave us new characters as well but they never negated or changed the meaning of the films which is the bread and butter of the franchise, so if this super important info is coming from the book I think that’s just silly. You really shouldn’t have to read the novel iteration to understand what the movie did a bad job of interpreting. But I digress, that is some crucial info…

The Vader mask scene and the theory that it’s someone else like Snoke who has been pretending to be Vader is interesting, and I buy that, but like…Kylo didn’t know Vader was redeemed? Did Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy, Lando, Akbar, Wedge, or like literally anybody else form the Rebellion forget to tell him that? Big yikes.

IMO, feeling “misunderstood and neglected by his parents” isn’t a valid excuse for him to kill his own dad and being ok with his mom getting bombed to hell. Idk, you can ask why it’s ok for us to forgive Vader through his redemption arc but I think comparing his experiences to Kylo’s is like comparing apples to oranges. Vader was a BAD guy, but he ended up doing the ultimate GOOD thing in the end, and then the prequels fleshed out how he became bad intangible way, which to be fair, Kylo doesn’t have. But still, this is why most fans don’t take him seriously.

About the Jedi not being good- I challenge your credentials. “For a thousand generations the Jedi knights have been the guardians of peace and justice for the Old Republic”, then they were hunted down and everything turned to shit. And both in this canon and the previous one, it’s wildly considered that the few thousand years preceded the events of the movies things were super peaceful all things considered when the Jedi were in charge…and the Sith traditionally only operates in agents of 2. So how come everything was so peaceful for a thousand generations when there were a million Jedi and 2 Sith…ying yang in this case is bollocks.

And if Kylo really wants to “Start fresh”, why’d he start by becoming Supreme Leader of like the Star Wars version of ISIS? This is something we’ll need to find out in this next movie. I agree, his motive is to dismantle the Jedi and Sith way and create something else entirely, but the second Rey says “nah” he goes back to how he was. It’s not looking good.

The George Lucas rhyme thing lets not forget he’s talking about Episode 1 which was arguably one of the worst Star Wars movies made and he ended it with “hopefully it’ll work” and then grimaces…IDK bud lmao. And I doubt back in 1977 he knew there was going to be an episode 9 because he didn’t even know what he just made was Episode 4! It definitely was never a 9 episode arc from the get-go. Now, I know for certain after the prequels he had another trilogy in mind, and when he sold the rights to Disney he did hand them his drafts and notes, but even Bob Iger, CEO of Disney, admitted in his new book, they didn’t follow those drafts AT ALL. LIKE NOTHING. And he said that George felt betrayed. This idea of a new trilogy is something that was created in 2012, but I suspect they have been making this up as they went. After this last movie, Disney scrambled to get JJ Abrams back and figure out how they were going to get everything back on track. Daisy Ridley herself said JJ wrote a story for each of the 3 new movies, but Rian ended up created his own completely. I think that alone shows that production for these movies has been inconsistent, I don’t buy this was all part of some 9 series plan with a definitive beginning, middle, and end from the get-go.

Not sure what Rey’s lineage is, we’ll find out for sure in this next movie. I read one theory that Palpatine created her sorta through the force like many people think he did with Anakin.

So that was what I was up against.

Let’s take a brief moment to appreciate this:

Okay now that that is done...great.

My turn!

Now, I wrote my response (copied below) at top speed in about an hour, so maybe some of the things I say start sounding rushed or not as fleshed out as they should be. But I cracked my knuckles and gave it a go:

I am the first one to advocate for a film to have the ability to ‘stand-alone’ in any particular universe, whether it be Marvel, DC, Hunger Games, and Star Wars. By introducing a backstory for Leia’s pregnancy and hers and Han’s marriage in ‘Bloodline’, LucasFilm is doing just that: giving a backstory. In both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, there is proof that Snoke is the one pulling the strings when it comes to young solo. In the first film, Leia is quoted saying to Han, “There’s still light in him I know it! No. It was Snoke. He seduced our son to the dark side”, and in the second film Luke is quoted as saying, “Snoke had already turned his heart”. It is made apparent that ‘Kylo Ren’ is the production of Snoke, and Ren suffers abuse both mental and physical from his master. Though this changes when Kylo finally becomes free of the shackles Snoke once had on him when Ren slices him in half. The look of shock and release on Ren’s face when he realizes what he’s done says it all. Who are we to judge someone who is freshly out of the control of their captor? By just watching the films it is clear that Kylo Ren is not fully in control of his actions and he is being manipulated consistently as shown by the quotes above. When having that manipulation in conjunction with the neglect of a parental figure, then you get the full-blown reality that is Kylo Ren.

Feeling “misunderstood and neglected by his parents” is a valid excuse for turning to the Darkside in the world of a fictional fairy tale. Keep in mind we are not in a reality where this is okay, yet the world in which Star Wars exists allows such things to be redeemable and explainable. Take for example when Padme knew about Anakin killing younglings; she wanted him to still come home because she ‘loved’ him. If he had turned back to the light at that moment she would have most likely accepted him back. It is a danger of the force. They are not dealing with everyday normal emotions; the force, as well as the genre of the franchise, creates a heightened sense of urgency which is apparent throughout the forty-plus years Star Wars has been around (hell, as long as any fairy tale has been around). When you point out that Vader did the ultimate good thing in the end, do you mean to save his son and push Palpatine down a duct? If so, then this would be his redemption which occurred in the last of the original trilogies. If you are to treat Kylo with the same rules as Vader, then we must give him a chance to ‘do the right thing’, something which the filmmakers have been steadily building his character-arc for. Vader did numbers ‘wrong’ things, some of them much worse than Kylo has done. But yet the audience still chose to respect him, even before the prequels which fleshed out the story of Anakin Skywalker.

Now, you may be correct in that Ben Solo knew of Vader’s redemption, and I misspoke, to which I am sorry. He, in fact, learned of his heritage when he was training with Luke at his academy when he received a letter from his mother. The contents of the letter are unknown, though it is assumed she told him of his heritage when he was in his late teens. This was only because one of her rivals she was campaigning against in the senate threatened to leak the knowledge to the public that Leia was the daughter of the infamous Darth Vader. Ben had no idea before-hand though, so once again we assume that this had some type of impact. Imagine finding out your grandfather was Hitler. Would that be fun? But, since we addressed the fact that external material should not need to be consumed in order for a film to make sense, then we should disregard any idea as to how Ben Solo came to learn of his heritage. It is not mentioned in the films, but it is a widely held belief by many in the fandom that if Kylo Ren knew of his grandfathers’ redemption then he merely took this as a lapse in judgment in his late years (especially since it is hinted to in the films that Ren is speaking to someone via the Vader mask). Perhaps said mask has been telling Ren lies in lieu of the true story of the redemption. But that is speculation. What is not speculation is the line Ren utters in The Force Awakens, “Forgive me. I feel it again... The pull to the light... Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again... The power of the darkness... And I'll let nothing stand in our way... Show me... Grandfather... and I will finish... what you started.” What we can tell from the film is that Ren is in a constant struggle to stay within the dark, and through his words, it is expressed how this warrants forgiveness. The second half of the statement is even more worrying in the fact that Ren says ‘show me again’, referencing a previous time this ‘Vader’ has shown him what the darkness entails. Will we find out in episode nine if there was an imposter (Palpatine?) feeding more lies and brainwashing to Kylo Ren? That means not only was he getting terrible treatment from Snoke, but from his ‘grandfather’ as well. Perhaps this is why in the final trailer for episode nine we see Rey and Ren destroying said helmet. Until the film comes out, this will still be a mystery.

In coming to why I believe the Jedi are bad, I side with Luke Skywalker on this one. As he says in The Last Jedi, “ At the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader.” To that, Rey points out that it was also a Jedi who saved him. Which is true! Yet, the rules surrounding the Jedi order are such that allowed for Anakin to search elsewhere for support. True, he was very conflicted, but the Jedi are so extreme that they do not welcome outside opinions or thinking. You are either all light or you’re bad. There is no intermediary. That is why the answer is grey Jedi. I know those exist, and what needs to happen is a yin and yang between the light and the dark. Working together fosters acceptance and love within the galaxy. Even the symbol in the pool of the Jedi Temple in which Luke tucked himself away had a figure in a yin and yang pattern. “Powerful light and powerful dark...a balance”. Yet, any dark whatsoever that the Jedi see they stamp out.

When Anakin says, “If you’re not with me, then you’re against me”, Obi-wan responds with, “Only sith think in absolutes!”. Well, can you see the issue there? Obi-wan is also thinking in absolute. Using the word only further segmented and cast aside Anakin, by labeling him a lost cause. Such a similar thing happened with Kylo Ren and the incident with Luke at the Jedi Academy. The momentary lapse which Luke expressed to Rey was the tipping point. In Ren’s eyes, even his Master saw him beyond saving. And since everyone around him insists on thinking in absolute, then he must be bad according to them, right?

Slowly, Ren is beginning to realize there is another way, something not presently defined within the Star Wars universe. It is not Sith, it is not Jedi, it is not the First Order: it is the ‘new order’ which he proposes to Rey. Yet, he is not ready for redemption yet. The entire point of the scene was for Rey to realize that Kylo Ren cannot be saved by anyone but himself. This is a very powerful message and I am quite looking forward to seeing how his self-realization occurs in Episode Nine. Now, keep in mind that he had banked everything on Rey saying yes, and in his mind, she is “Still. Holding. ON!”, which she is, and he is right that it is holding her back. How can you expect someone from a family of yelling, angry people to get it right the first time? In fact, Adam Driver had to ask Rian Johnson if Kylo Ren had ever kissed a girl before. Kylo is not experienced in this ‘love’ world. He did not receive much love language from his absentee parents, so the only relationship he’s known for most of his teen and adult life is that of Snoke and General Hux. At that moment in which he wakes up to realize she is gone is one of abandonment and rejection. He thought he had found his match, the answer to his loneliness, and she snapped his lightsaber in two. He is basically throwing a grownup temper-tantrum, which is blatantly apparent in the standoff with Luke. When Kylo threatens everything, even ‘destroying’ Rey, Luke claims that everything Kylo says is “a lie”. It is clear in the last few moments of the film when Kylo is defeated and on his knees holding his father’s die that the audience begins to realize his anger was all a facade. In that shot, he is merely a lost and lonely boy realising the path he has chosen is wrong. The final force-bond between Kylo and Rey exhibits every one of those notions. There is no anger in his face, not very ‘destroy-ee’ of him, and he looks up with her with an almost longing. But when she sternly shuts the door on him, once again he is left alone, the die slowly fading from his gloved hand.

If that doesn’t sound like poetry then I don’t know what is! George Lucas was quoted saying in the behind the scenes of the prequels, “You see the echo of where it all is gonna go. It’s like poetry, sort of. They rhyme.” Similar themes and sequences occur within the franchise, and they have kept that alive at Disney Lucas Films, especially in regards to the parallels drawn between Anakin/Padme and Kylo/Rey. They even designed their respective costumes in a similar fashion. Kylo has his mother and father’s anger and stubbornness. They had a rough idea of where it was all going to go. And in regards to JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson, JJ Abrams was an executive producer on Episode 8 and had a say in the general outline of the plot. JJ had set up the relationship between Kylo and Rey in The Force Awakens, and Rian continued along that path. He followed the skeleton needed to get the plot from 7-9. But think about it, Disney would not allow Rian to just veer off the path completely. Yes he had some creative license but within parameters. Sometimes I don’t think people understand the workings of a large corporation with creative decisions. On a project like Star Wars there is always input from the higher-ups. In addition, JJ Abrams auditioned potential Kylo Ren actors with the script from Pride and Prejudice (Mr. Darcy of course). This is made clear in the writing decisions and parallels which have been made for that particular character.

Lastly, would you really want George Lucas at the helm of this new trilogy? People thought the prequels were terrible and Lucas went back and digitally altered the originals against the will of fans. He is not technically the best when it comes to scriptwriting (Exhibit A: “I hate sand, it gets everywhere!”) Also, Mark Hamill was interviewed in the early ’00s and said, "You know, when I first did this, it was four trilogies. 12 movies! And out on the desert, any time between setups...lots of free time. And George was talking about this whole thing. I said, 'Why are you starting with IV, V and VI? It's crazy.' [Imitating Lucas grumble,] 'It's the most commercial section of the movie.'” Yes, the first film was a stand-alone, since they had no idea they would receive any further funding. But then the immense success allowed for Lucas to develop the franchise further.

What I think people tend to forget is that Star Wars is a fairy tale, and it is not supposed to be about ‘a mass murder’ who is going to jail. It is supposed to be about redemption at its very heart. George Lucus had expressed that he intended Star Wars as a series for “twelve-year-olds”. This explains things like Jar Jar Binks and other bizarre choices he has made as a creator. Though this explains a lot of why most of the people who hate the franchise now are angry adults online who live in an overly politically correct world judging a fictional character who is in the middle of a character arc. As JJ Abrams had said in the director's commentary of The Force Awakens, “We looked at it like […] a fairy tale. What are the elements that you’re going to see that makes it this genre, this specific genre? […] You’re probably going to have a castle, and a prince and a princess, if you’re looking at a fairy tale. We wanted to give these fundamental, not cosmetic, but prerequisite elements.”

Okay, I’ve talked too much. I am going to end it there for now. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Haha hope that was entertaining and that sparked some thinking and inspiration. I know I let my keyboard run away from me and please excuse the odd typo from time to time. Let me know your thoughts.

I mean just look at that beautiful man.

Love you all!

#reylo #star wars #kylo ren #rey #long reads #in defense of kylo #ben solo #george lucas #bendemption

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bedlamsbard · 8 years ago

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can you give me more backstory/explanation to the "In the mid-90s, Palpatine having a harem seemed totally legit;" thing because that just seems like something very very weird and i'm kinda curious

Right! So I’m not completely up on the OT-era EU because I don’t particularly care about the OT, but I do know some of it. I tend to divide the EU into pre-AotC and post-AotC -- Attack of the Clones came out in 2002, and there’s a specific reason that I use AotC as the dividing line rather than TPM, but I’ll get to that in a moment.

So up until the EU was declared Legends and in a separate continuity in 2014, Star Wars had a bunch of different levels of canon, basically distinguished by how close George Lucas was to them. The films were G-canon, then the shows, then all the books/comics/games. If you’ve ever looked at the old EU, then you’ll see that it’s a continuity nightmare, especially once the PT started coming out, then TCW tromped all over the previously-existing timeline of the Clone Wars. But I digress.

Anyway, prior to the PT’s release in 1999, what was basically going on in the EU is that there was part of the timeline that writers weren’t allowed to work in because George Lucas might eventually want to do A Thing, which he did end up doing and which ended up being the Prequel Trilogy. The only hard canon, coming straight from George at this point, was the OT. These days we’ve got a lot of canon, a lot of it straight from George including the OT, the PT, and TCW, but prior to 1999 all there was was the OT. And the OT is not exactly what one would call a lot of substance, though it lays out a lot of broad outlines and drops some very precise hints about things. For example: the Clone Wars. Right up until 2002 no one knew that the Clone Wars were called the Clone Wars because the Republic had clone troopers.

Here’s another thing no one knew about until 2002: Jedi couldn’t get married. This is not to weigh in on whether the attachment thing is good or bad, but up until Attack of the Clones came out, no one knew this. INCLUDING THE WRITERS WORKING ON THE STAR WARS BOOKS AND COMICS. There’s a Star Wars: Republic comic released in 1998 where Ki-Adi-Mundi has five wives and seven daughters. (The other thing that’s hilarious about the Republic comics, aside from Ki-Adi-Mundi’s hat, is that for some reason they seemed to think that Ki-Adi-Mundi would be the breakout character from TPM.) It later got addressed in a 2004 comic where it gets handwaved by saying Ki-Adi-Mundi got an exception because of the low Cerean birth rate, and then the family is killed offscreen.

But moving back from the prequel timeline into the OT timeline, especially in the pre-PT days, there was not a lot of hard substance to work with. Imagine: it’s the year 1994 and literally all we know about Palpatine is what is revealed in the OT. Also, this is before the special editions so if I remember correctly there’s still a scene in, uh, ESB? where he has a monkey’s face, but that doesn’t really impact this at all. We know that Palpatine is the Emperor and that he can shoot lightning out of his fingertips. We know that he corrupted Anakin Skywalker.

That’s about it.

That’s not a lot to work with. These days, we know a lot more about Palpatine: we know his first name, we know his home planet, we know his weird pet projects, but most importantly we know a whole lot more about his personality than anyone did in 1994 or earlier. It is really hard to imagine the Palpatine of the PT or TCW having a harem, because we know him. None of this detail existed prior to 1999. It was just as reasonable for Palpatine to have had a harem as it was for Jedi Knights to marry and have families (which is where Children of the Jedi gets its name), because there was no reason for the SW writers of that period to think otherwise -- in fact, there was plenty of reason for them to think that that was typical. Palpatine was an emperor; historically speaking, the vast majority of rulers want to have heirs. (And IIRC, this came up a couple of times in the EU; I think there were several women who claimed to have been Palpatine’s lovers and to have had his children.) Up until 2002, there was also no real reason to think that the Jedi wouldn’t marry and have families: because in 1994, when Children of the Jedi was published, one of the only things we knew about the Republic Jedi was that Anakin Skywalker had had children, and this wasn’t presented as anything atypical in the OT.

The pre- and post- PT EU (and then dividing this further to add TCW in the mix) is fascinating because it represents a divide in background and baseline knowledge: a number of things that today, looking back at the pre-PT EU, are completely insane based on baseline canon knowledge were pretty reasonable considering when they were published, because none of that existed yet. None of the authors working on SW at the time (and this is about twenty years before the Story Group and still well before the Holocron) had any reason to think otherwise.

Now, one of the other interesting things that happened prior to the Legends/canon divide in 2014 is that there were efforts in the EU to make all this conflicting continuity line up. I say in the EU specifically, because the PT and TCW, coming straight from George Lucas, did not care: I think Dave Filoni has talked about this in interviews and BTS material a couple of times, but there are a lot of ways (including the timeline!) that TCW directly contradicts material from the Clone Wars-era EU, which is why I have no patience for OT-era fans complaining about how none of their favorite EU material is canon anymore. (I’ll talk about Ryloth sometime, if anyone wants.) For example, going back to the “Jedi get married and have families” thing from CotJ: CotJ has, basically, an enclave where a bunch of Jedi fled with their spouses and children during the Purge, though by the time of the novel they’ve all died. In 2009, Karen Traviss wrote a novel in the TCW timeline called No Prisoners which presents a separate Jedi sect where Jedi get married and have kids: this is supposed to be the same sect that later shows up in CotJ. (No Prisoners is terrible, don’t read it: Karen Traviss also wrote the only Star Wars novel I’ve actually thrown across a room because I hated it so much, and she flounced amidst controversy.) I think there are also a couple of other cases where writers writing after 2002 have tried to reconcile material in the pre-PT EU and the post-PT canon, but that’s the only one I know of off the top of my head.

tl;dr In the mid-’90s Star Wars writers had considerably less canon to work with and made choices that at the time made sense, but in retrospect are pretty wacky solely because we now have more canon.

#ousakashizuku #bedlam answers

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gffa · 8 years ago

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A little more comprehensive version of the post I made yesterday: I’ve been reading some interviews with Matthew Stover, to get a sense of how in tune his Revenge of the Sith novelization is with G-level canon (aka, George Lucas-level canon) and a bunch of interesting things have popped up! The transcript of a Hyperspace Chat he did back in 2005 had some neat things to say (though, it’s cut off because of the forum moving truncated all posts over a certain word limit):

- he wrote Anakin with his understanding of Lucas' vision of what Anakin's psychological makeup is.

Stover also confirmed it himself on the Jedi Council Forums message board that George absolutely did a line edit of the book. (In the Hyperspace Chat transcript, it’s mentioned that there was some editing out of EU Sith history especially.) In a Random House interview, some more interesting things of note:

- “but I've managed to weave in a significant amount of the Expanded Universe material in as well -- having started in the Star Wars realm as an EU author, after all. I was really trying to bring the whole Star Wars Universe together in this story” - “The one place where I really had no freedom at all was in the characters' motivations: Mr. Lucas had an exceptionally clear idea of exactly why everyone was doing what, and he wasn't about to allow me to mess around with that even a little bit. After all, the "Why" is what this story is really about... and the funny thing was, there didn't turn out to be any gaps in motivation.” - “And, of course, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the specifics of Anakin's fall -- what, exactly, drives him over the edge, when it happens, and what has led him to it. And, of course, we had to talk a bit about the dark side...”

The two things I most took away from the interview were that 1) a lot of what was edited out seems to be EU-based stuff or things that Stover eventually agreed were better off being cut and 2) a lot of the focus in the book was definitely on Anakin’s character, that this was a book about the Dark and about the Sith and about Anakin. In an interview with Terry Brooks, who wrote the novelization for The Phantom Menace, he says that he met with George and talked with him for about four hours, that there was a fair amount of involvement from him, but it doesn’t say anything about a line-edit, like there was with Stover’s ROTS novelization. (There’s an interview at The Author Hour that had some extras that didn’t make it into the main interview that basically say the same thing.) I’ve also Googled for any interviews with R. A. Salvatore, who said that he met George and got to see some of the movie and they had a long talk about how to approach the book, but again nothing about any kind of line-editing or anything like that. Why these things are of interest to me is in the trail of thought I’ve had about the book and its focus, that the thing that was most important that Stover get right/what was spent the most time on was Anakin and the Sith and the Dark. That the take on Anakin Skywalker, the psychology of his character, in this novel is given more weight that I might usually give to a novel. My point being that I love a lot of Star Wars official stuff, but I’m not always wholly convinced that they really understand Anakin Skywalker’s character. So, I’m giving extra consideration to this novel’s characterization of him, because of the way it came about and how closely George Lucas was involved in it. Basically, I just wanted to know how much weight to give all those amazing ROTS novel quotes that leave me on the floor crying about my Anakin Skywalker feelings or how much weight to give that "more intimately than lovers" quote about Obi-Wan and Anakin, and the answer is: APPARENTLY A WHOLE FUCKING LOT. And, of course, the hilarity of how, when George Lucas read those lines:

"Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior." “Perhaps not. Perhaps it's simply a question of whether you love Obi-Wan Kenobi more than you love your wife." "She heard him stop. 'You love him, too, don't you?'"

And had gone over them line-by-line, just as he had everything else, and went, “Yep, that sounds about right.”

#obi wan kenobi #anakin skywalker #obikin #george lucas #novels

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