#and it's so different from the weird tenseness of s4 it's something different entirely. new meta conflicts just for me !????

[myrmica]

its so funny that all minute—the guy who once upon a time hoped to redeem zam—'s team has accomplished is getting him to consider giving up his remaining honor in order to match the level they're playing on ?

[mean-scarlet-deceiver]

Rusty and the Boulder and/or Rusty to the Rescue?

Thanks for giving two options—that's really considerate!

I'm gonna go for the second one. Of "Rusty and the Boulder," all I can say is that the best part is the ending. (That's one of my all-time favorite roasts, but in this case it's meant literally and neutrally. The Fat Controller, after an entire season of expanding and building new "attractions" every five episodes, turning his back on his latest project and musing "we should have never built on this part of the island"... that was quality stuff. 👌 Everything else I'd sooner wipe from my memory.)

Man, "Rusty to the Rescue" is definitely that episode where ignorance is bliss. For the most part, The Lore has enhanced my enjoyment of the early TTTE stories .

This is one of the few notable, shining exceptions. I wish I could un-know all the ways in which this episode makes no sense.

Coz, for all its inaccuracies... it IS the standout episode of season 4. It's stunning. If you let an RWS preference take this one away from you, then what's left as far as season 4 highlights? What else holds a candle to the intrigue and visuals and vibes in "Rescue": "Granpuff"? "Rock n' Roll"? "Special Funnel"?... I mean those episodes are all beautifully done but none of them alone could make this season iconic.

So. We just gotta shut down our rational brains and allow ourselves to love "Rescue"... which was no hardship at all, when I was a kid. S4 was where the show felt like it was growing the beard—all the suggestions of lore and history and backstory, all the new threats and dangers, the mingling of old characters with new characters who felt so different—and nowhere was that feeling stronger than here. This episode was KING.

Why do I keep using past tense? I may not be able to accept it as canon, but it still slaps.

"... a lonely part of the island where only the diesels went."

I rewound and watched this scene a thousand times. I wanted more content of this setting so badly.

"lol it's just Barrow" isn't really cutting it, sorry... too much realism, not nearly enough cool-ism

backing up and doing the highlight reel...

---------------------------------------------

"I don't know. But I soon will!"

Penalizing it imaginary points right off the bat for an obligatory Thomas appearance that does nothing to help the coherence of this story. (Seems to be a "kindly hero baton pass" interaction? Like I see their reasoning but I wish I was their editor and could smite it out.)

Also, even as an American city kid, knowing nothing about RWS (or anything really), this whole plot device of Rusty taking it upon themselves to help some line solve their locomotive crisis by finding a "bluebell engine" just didn't really made sense. So random.

The Awdrys already missed the boat on the idea of the Sodor engines actively seeking out refugees to help (a. huge. loss! coz they would have!!); here Britt had a second chance at it and she swung and missed even more wildly, I think. I just wish the motives here had been different. There's something so incongruous about an engine being all "lol we need a tourist engine lol i'll go steal one from the scrapyard ig lol then i'll forget about all the others there forever... lol."

All this said, I also loved this opening for its Rusty characterisation? The standout character in S4, and RWS!Rusty, while a good sort, really can't quite compete with the TVS!Rusty who cheeks off Harold and who poses as a Shed and Sidings Inspection Diesel. Loved how Rusty is shown to already be comfortable with several different standard-gauge engines. Loved Rusty asking Driver what was wrong. Loved Rusty's good-natured laughter. Even Rusty's apparent detachment from the seriousness of the mission is endearing. Weird, of course... but I like weird.

Even today, I can't really dismiss Rusty as "too perfect" or anything. They've got such a strong sense of personality. They/them version of Plucky Girl trope, mostly. Smart, too. With a huge dose of poise. So self-possessed! You have no choice but to stan!

"So that's where I'll go."

Pretty blatant how it's piggybacking off its most spectacular S3 episode... but also really clever. Gotta give it up. Props.

Also, I do now appreciate that, though they butchered the Stepney book to hell and back (let's be honest, most of the Stepney book is too painfully "edutainment-like" anyway, I don't mind them taking a hatchet to it and trying something better) they put in a nod to the original "Bluebells of England" scene by having Douglas and Percy here. (They have these two next to each other again in the next ep, when Stepney arrives at the Big Station.)

Also, funny as hell how Douglas and Percy are (reasonably) upset/borderline freaking out and Rusty's just doing their whole "indomitable pluck" thing. Rusty is a few pistons short of a full... um... something engineering something.

"But it was only the sounds of the lonely scrapyard."

We've had a million "scary smelter" episodes after this. But was this scrapyard shot ever really beaten? I challenge anyone to find an image more atmospheric than this one! ^

"Diesels, silent and still, lined up on guard."

This was so. freaking. scary? Doesn't help that they're all clearly clones of Known Characters. Or maybe all our diesel friends have a second, sinister life? Maybe they only pretend to like their steam engine coworkers? (These were my thoughts as a kid. Yes, I've always been good at freaking myself out. You barely had to work, to frighten me.)

Their scary "collective voice" didn't help at. all.

Great stuff. Fascinating. One of my kids screamed and ran out of the room their first viewing. 10/10 scene.

"Then I'll just go and inspect!"

Here my liege 👑 👑👑 you dropped these 👑👑👑

"A small engine with a tall funnel stood sad and alone in the shadowy siding. His driver was huddled in the cab, keeping him company."

The content here is heartwarming but I always had to laugh at the bizarre visual of him with his casual pose and dopey smile. Man looks like he's having a right cosy time and feelin' no pain!

"Do you like bluebells?"

Okay, but that "predator PoV" shot is brilliant. Geez.

Also, gotta level with ya—as a kid, I thought that trash on Step's left lamp iron was the head of a toy horse? I don't know why?? I never did get it???

It just went in the same pile as "all the weird-ass details in this story that don't make sense but that intrigue one so."

Definitely well-done that they stay pretty consistent in this episode with a separate narrow-gauge track for Rusty...

"Everyone worked fast."

🙄

Tho it's not like us RWS purists can blame the adaptation for the idea that abandoned, rusting steam engines just fire up from cold at the speed of plot...

Also, I LOVE any time the model series shows a glowing firebox. It's always worth standing up and applauding.

"Where is HE going?"

EDGE. OF. SEAT. STUFF.

Also, Rusty's response is made of win.

"Mission accomplished!"

Okay, there was ONE exception to the separate narrow-gauge track. But I think we can all agree it was an acceptable omission here for the sake of the shot. 😍

---------------------------------------------

Obviously, the night-time scene is the show-stealer. But the ending ain't bad, either. Nothing too special, but not bad.

Rusty and Stepney both stood out in S4 as new characters who were so... unproblematic? no learning curve, no issues? They could just get on with things, do useful stuff, have adventures?

I feel Rusty wore this better than Stepney (probably due to all of Step's fanfare; it felt a bit much... no wonder Thomas was jealous, lol; it felt very New Series Thomasesque), but still, for this season? It worked. It was really refreshing after some of the spinning wheels and already-getting-overdone character cliches of S3.

At some point, however, the TVS giving us characters that didn't follow the "karma kicks you in the teeth" intro arc definitely contributed to the show losing the glorious edge that it had inherited from RWS.

Then again, I'm not gonna blame S4 Rusty for this. I don't get the impression that S6 and beyond took any cues from S4. They probably would have gone down that tamer path anyway.

So I can say without reservation: all hail the little maintenance diesel who is the coolest Almighty Janitor in any iteration of TTTE canon!

As for this episode, while it's an often-awkward cut-and-remix job that doesn't succeed at the too-many goals it set for itself, I think I can forgive anything for the shed-and-sidings inspection scene. 🧡💛

Also, based on this story alone, I could understand someone preferring TVS canon (at least the Classic Series or even the whole model era) to RWS canon. I don't feel that way myself but I definitely understand. They should have kept digging into the TVS-only lore of these early seasons—it's way cooler than literally everything about the Brenner era. Screw "railway realism" and "RWS fanservice"! Who needs that stuff when you can have random haunted lines, gravity-defying guardian boulders, and scary diesel-guarded scrapyards?

[likehandlingroses]

“Realistic” Tom/Thomas Relationship Timeline

The S3/S4 Tom/Thomas affair is a theory that has been making its way around lately, and it is centered around the contrast in the interactions between Thomas and Tom during the Season 3 Christmas Special and their interactions in the Season 4 Christmas Special. 

This means that usually the start of the relationship is viewed as coinciding with the immediate aftermath of Matthew’s death, which occurs in the Christmas Special of Season 3 (September 1921). Due to the interactions between Tom and Thomas in the Christmas Special of Season 4, the relationship can almost certainly be considered over by that time (May-ish of 1923). But what happened in between, and how long were they actually together? There’s one view that the affair occurs in between Seasons 3 and 4, which means that at the very longest they lasted just under six months (generally I think this view cuts it even shorter than that)...but this leaves some unanswered questions and some peculiarities, so I took another look at the canon to determine when, in fact, Thomas and Tom broke up.

(Note: I definitely know that Julian Fellowes did not intend for them to be having an affair, but also Julian if I’m right just DM me)

Let’s start with what we know about September 1921 and May 1923—the definite before and after points—for reference:

Christmas Special Season 3—September, 1921

In this Christmas special, we see Tom left behind while the rest of the family goes to Duneagle, and we see Thomas still dealing with the Jimmy situation a year after its apparent resolution. On its face, this episode features Tom being challenged in his new role in the house—and being encouraged to step up and face that role—and Thomas finding a way to resolve things with Jimmy.

Except there’s a whole lot of other stuff going on in the periphery of those stories: Tom knows that Jimmy is bothering Thomas and appears to want to intervene at the fair, but he is stopped by Edna, who at one point uses Thomas’s injuries as an excuse to visit Tom and assure him that Thomas is “feeling much better.” And—of course—there’s the fact that Tom and Thomas hug at the fair (and lest you think this was a RJC/Allen Leech moment not caught by editing, it was in multiple takes! Someone—multiple someones actually—included it on purpose). They are friendly, aware of each other, and to be honest it isn’t impossible to argue that maybe the relationship predates Matthew’s death! I’m going to argue otherwise, however, based on how Tom breaks down when Edna kisses him—I think Edna is the first time he’s even really thought of himself in romantic terms for a long time! But Thomas is right there in the wings, and he just finally made some progress on the emotional problem that’s been plaguing him for over a year!

It’s a big difference from what we see in the next Christmas special, big enough to start the theory of the affair in the first place...

Season 4 Christmas Special—Summer 1923

Once again, Tom is left alone at Downton while the rest of the family goes to London...and the difference in how Thomas responds is striking. He’s furious at having to wait on Tom, for reasons both we and the characters cannot quite understand. The excuses don’t add up—at this point, Tom has been living at Downton for three YEARS, and this has never been a problem before. Now all of a sudden Thomas is slamming trays and clenching his fists and provoking Tom into admitting that he sees himself as Above sitting next to him...what?

Then there’s Sarah Bunting, a Miss Sarah Bunting...whose presence infuriates Thomas while also making him eager to use her as a way to embarrass Tom. And Tom knows it, immediately. He’s embarrassed, he’s uncomfortable, but still he’s quick to pull rank with Thomas when challenged. Something has fundamentally altered the way they interact with and perceive each other while sharing the same space.

All of this speaks to a breakup, and a messy one at that...so with the knowledge we have, WHAT exactly happened between September of 1921 and May of 1923? Let’s look at what Season 4 has to say:

4.1/4.2–February, 1922

“That’s right: it’s Valentine’s Day.” 

This is an important piece of the puzzle, because Thomas—Nanny West drama aside—is in a pretty good mood for the Valentine’s Day episode! He engages with Daisy and Jimmy’s Valentine’s card drama with good humor and even some genuine interest...something I do not believe he’d do if he’d only recently been broken up with, and by someone who lived in the house! The big one here, though, is the dialogue Thomas has with Nanny West in which she calls him “Thomas” and he says, “that’s Mr. Barrow to you...”

Now, where did Nanny West hear him referred to as Thomas? The episode makes a point of the fact that nannies do not as a rule spend much time with the downstairs staff—and even if they did, not many of the downstairs crew call Thomas “Thomas” on a regular basis. Nor do the upstairs folks...with one notable exception. Tom, who has to be reminded by Thomas in 4.3 to address him as “Barrow” (more on that later), routinely messes up names and titles.

To me, this suggests that Tom and Thomas are still talking, and it’s pretty clear from Thomas’s attentions to Sybbie in the episode that it would have been easy for Nanny West to overhear it in that context. Now, this doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re still seeing each romantically, but the “Mr. Barrow TO YOU” element implies that the correction was NOT made to whoever Nanny West heard using the name (we presume it’s Tom)...and the distinction is that Nanny West does not *get* to call him that! It definitely seems like whoever she grabbed the name from has been granted permission to do that, and she Has Not. And if it’s Tom...well.

So does that mean that Thomas and Tom were done by 4.3, when Thomas DOES correct Tom on his title? Not exactly...

4.3/4.4–The House Party (pre July 1922)

(tw on this section for discussions involving sexual assault)

The party features Edna’s schemes and assault on Tom in order to extract a promise of marriage from him. It also features a Tom who is incredibly vulnerable and entirely out of his element with the introduction of the Crawley’s friends. This is somewhat of a contrast from the Tom of the first two episodes, who stands up to Robert several times to intervene on Mary’s behalf, and even ropes Carson into the mission. It feels, for a moment, that despite Matthew’s death Tom has taken up the challenge presented to him at the end of Season 3 and begun seeing himself as a valuable, contributing member of the household and family.

But here, Tom speaks of himself as a fool, as walking a tightrope, and of not being understood. He relies on alcohol to get through the event, which Edna takes advantage of—and which gives us a Tom/Thomas interaction that speaks to, in my opinion, a continuing relationship (although perhaps an altering one):

Now, if I had to guess, I would say that Tom might be less *keen* than usual, given his overall demeanor and the new scrutiny placed on him by Edna coming back to the house (not to mention the house party itself). It’s very possible there’s been a lull between the two of them as of late. I do not believe, however, that there is evidence of a clear break between Tom and Thomas as of the house party.

For one, Tom doesn’t just say the wrong thing when addressing Thomas in the drawing room—he says, “Thomas, would you get me a drink for God’s sake?” That is Not how he talks to him in the Christmas Special, where he is stilted and uncomfortable and concerned about how the words will be taken. He isn’t worried about any of that, and while Thomas corrects him, he doesn’t seem all that bothered by it. Tom’s look of irritation at the correction isn’t overdone either.

“It’s Barrow now,” also has flexible meanings. Of course it literally is what Tom is supposed to call him now...but ��now” seems like a weird word to use when it’s been what Thomas is meant to be called for several years. It could be a post-breakup smackdown, but we’ve seen what those look like in the Christmas Special, and this doesn’t feel like that! I believe, rather, that Thomas is making reference to the fact that it is incorrect at that moment, something Tom should know and has been discussed!!!

The house party has both of them overworked and tense (this is also the time where Thomas has to fill in for Jimmy because Jimmy hurt his hand...which is SO ridiculous if you think about it for more than two seconds), but Edna’s transgression still draws Thomas’s attention

And that’s important! Thomas had been friends with Edna until this point, largely for convenience it seems—she is a new lady’s maid, and she can feed him information. Thomas even worked with her to mess with Anna, who had earlier made a comment to Edna about his intentions in befriending her. There’s a bond forming there, and while I don’t believe Thomas would genuinely support the literal details of Edna’s plot, I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that he would be Opposed to Edna taking advantage of what she would frame as an indiscretion on Tom’s part. Not if he disliked Tom or was predisposed to believe Tom was at fault (ie: someone who expects to be “waited on Hand and Foot while he decides what Might Please Him Next”).

But right away, Thomas is suspicious the morning after. We see Thomas spying on Edna as she corners Tom, and he specifically brings it up to her later to catch her out. Already his tone is soured where she’s concerned. He’s sensed she’s up to something and he can probably guess the vague idea if not the particulars...and it turns him against her almost instinctively.

So what’s that about? Could it just be jealousy? The thing is, we know what Thomas would do if he believed that Edna and Tom were simply having an affair—we see what happens in the S4 Christmas Special with Sarah Bunting. This isn’t like that at all. 

Thomas immediately blames Edna for what’s happened, calling her a manipulative little witch and declaring that he’s delighted her plans didn’t work. There’s no question of Thomas’s loyalties, even though Edna assumes he’ll want to “keep in with” her. Not for one second does he appear to consider this, and that seems to distinguish this incident from later ones.

4.5/4.6–What Are These Episodes (pre-July 1922)

There isn’t a lot to remember about these episodes for Tom or Thomas, and so what people may not remember is that these are the episodes Tom starts floating the idea of leaving for America—a full season before he tries starting that conversation again, and over two years before he actually DOES temporarily move to Boston. Now, that kind of decision takes time, but it’s kind of...strange that he begins making it here in the spring of 1922 and will not seriously consider it again until well into 1924!

Whether this has anything at all to do with Thomas can’t be determined, but I do enjoy hearing Tom say it will be impossible for him to marry anyone at Downton because an upper class woman won’t have him, and would an “nice Irish working class girl” make everyone “comfy?”...and Thomas is standing Right There! What does it mean...

Thomas is also getting more paranoid, he’s got Baxter in the house feeding him information...and he’s generally giving off a different vibe than he has all season. 

Here is where I think the connection is starting to see some serious cracks—Tom is realizing he doesn’t belong and is making moves to change that. Meanwhile, Thomas is making moves to ensure Nothing Ever changes without him knowing about it ahead of time! Tension abounds, though we don’t see any evidence of it being directed at each other just yet...

4.7/4.8–Interesting and Modern (July 1922)

Thomas goes to America and Tom meets Miss Bunting...weird how that just happened like that!

Thomas is excited to go to New York, and it seems...pretty clear he fucked while he was there. I think if you’re gay and you go to New York in the 1920s and you come back and all you can tell your coworkers is that it was “interesting and modern” you definitely were not doing anything you can actually talk about

Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that he and Tom are Done (they may not have ever been exclusive on paper), but the overall feeling from Tom is a dejected man in limbo...he can’t even say he’s a Socialist anymore. It’s not going well. So my inclination is to say that Tom hit pause (maybe not for the first time), and Thomas is dealing with it by getting some in New York (great!) and bullying his coworkers (bad!) So why do I think they weren’t totally done at that time? Because these episodes happen in the summer of 1922...the Christmas Special for S4 takes place in May of 1923. That’s a long time to have passed! A long time for Tom to keep Miss Bunting at arm’s length, a long time for Thomas to be fuming over something...I believe that in the Christmas Special what we are seeing is the last stand of two people who are grappling with finally cutting a fraying thread.

Another Look At The S4 Christmas Special

These scenes are truly some of the most incomprehensible things Downton Abbey ever presented to us with virtually no explanation.  So let’s take another look at what’s happening here.  

First of all, we have the scene with Tom and Thomas entering the house after sending Edith off and leaving Tom offically on his own--they don’t appear openly hostile, though there’s some tense looking when the other person isn’t and looking back down again when they are energy...but nothing egregious. 

Not until we see Thomas slam down a tray, that is. In fact, this whole thing seems to be coming from Thomas’s anger, while Tom appears eager to just smooth it over by not causing trouble and following the rules set forth by the household norms. This seems in line with Tom’s general dispositon--with both Edna and Miss Bunting he tries to ease out rather than break things off. 

 But Thomas interprets this as dismissive, and while he says to Ivy it’s about their positions in the house...as discussed above this really doesn’t logically check out. I do think it irritates him that Tom is essentially avoiding Thomas because it’s what “pleases him,” but it runs deeper than “he used to be the chauffeur.” Because that was always the case. 

And then Tom brings Miss Bunting back without telling anyone, and he takes her upstairs. And this makes Thomas INSANE, and Tom knows IMMEDIATELY that it will! And Tom is eager to assure “Mr. Barrow” that nothing happened (actually, what he’s really eager to do is have Thomas not stand there while he eats, but Thomas is not budging). 

Thomas is furious. He’s said to Ivy that he is SICK of this man, he’s tired of dealing with him...and then he tries to get Tom to sit next to him the car? 

Thomas stole a dog one time, and I still think this might be his wildest attempt at controlling a situation we see on the show. What is going on? If Tom HAD let him sit in the back, would Thomas have still gone to Lord Grantham about Miss Bunting? If Thomas hadn’t been such a jerk about Miss Bunting, would Tom have LET him? What is poor Ivy even processing this as? Am I the only one hearing Taylor Swift’s Better Than Revenge playing? 

Thomas acts immediately on coming to London, dropping the line of “Mr. Branson is stil a young man, and he can’t be expected to stay single forever”...he’s Angry Angry!! If they were on a break before, I don’t think it had fully set in for Thomas that it might be Permanent until now. And I think Tom’s newly avoidant personality we see in other scenarios gave him the wrong impression in this respect.

In Summary

I think that the relationship was relatively “on” from the period of September 1921 through whenever the house party took place. The house party caused some huge issues, mostly for Tom (understandably)—he may have unfairly blamed himself for what happened and drew wrongful parallels to what’s happening with Thomas. I think that after that it was very “off,” but I believe that neither Thomas nor Tom really committed to ending it either...and when we see them in 1923 they are in the peak stages of finally facing the end of things.

So what caused the final shift? Perhaps Thomas came back from New York with expectations, expectations Tom found himself intimidated by. Perhaps Thomas’s increasing paranoia and Tom’s growing agnosticism towards his own beliefs and identity are related and fed off of each other until they both just did not like the person they were seeing! Maybe it’s just that Downton Abbey is a really bad place for both of them, and even though they started off trying to protect each other from that, they got sucked in and turned on each other!

In any case, by Season 5 the romantic relationship appears over for good, though there is some evidence in later episodes that Tom and Thomas settled down a bit over time (Thomas defending Tom in S5 at Brancaster, and Tom saying he hates goodbyes in reference to Thomas). 

We will just have to see what happens when they realize they both are dating someone new, and they work together too :) 

[spiders-hth-is-an-outlier]

Okay start us out with those Magicians Opinions!

the first character i ever fell in love with:  LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT QUENTIN COLDWATER.  Okay, but yeah, they really introduced him in a way that worked-worked for me – that whole opening sequence that cuts between Quentin being tense and closed-off and miserable in this hollow, almost angry way in the office of the hospital, and Quentin trying to act normal at a party, making wan jokes while the misery and the anger leaks out of him and makes him just so unpalatable to be around – I mean, Jason Ralph just takes the character by the throat instantly and Goes There.  I remember thinking as I was watching it that this was the first “anxious nerd dude” character I'd ever seen who wasn't being framed as actually funny/weird/charming/vulnerable/the clear audience stand-in, but framed as if he were a real person who's really eaten up by depression and self-loathing, and just as off-putting as that is in real life.  I vividly remember just having that reaction of, “Oh. This is about someone who's really hanging on by his fingernails, not just Hollywood Depressed,” and latching on so hard, because I needed to see that so much, and I needed to root for him to find his reason, not in spite of but because as a character he was resistant to being liked by other people, by the audience. It's not loveable and charming, to hate yourself, to find your life barely tolerable.  It's not a position from which it's easy to see your way forward, and to me Quentin is the most honest expression of that reality that I had ever seen in genre tv.  So like, I get why some people didn't like him in first season – he's intentionally tough to like – but I was ultra-invested from minute one, and literally everything he ever said or did made me love him more.

a character that i used to love/like, but now do not: I think I was kind of intrigued by Fen early on – I liked the idea that she was this naive fairy-tale girl who was going to have this harsh awakening when her Destined Prince turned out to be a real person who couldn't fulfill her fantasies, who was going to have to figure out who she was beyond “going to marry the king someday.”  That seemed like an interesting arc, and here and there they were kind of doing it – I love the realpolitik she occasionally comes out with, particularly that one scene on the boat when she's like, “The dipshits from my hometown are going to execute me because of you, so sticking with you is kind of my only option and that's just happening.”  But then...I don't know, she's really irritating, and they got this weird thing in their heads where her problem is that Eliot sucks, instead of that being The Girl Who Will Marry the King Someday is a sucky role to be forced into making a real life out of, and I just gave up trying to like her eventually.

a ship that i used to love/like, but now do not: I liked Penny/Kady all right, until they started doing the weird thing where “in Doomed Love with Penny” was Kady's only emotional arc, like – they actually had her say that all she ever cared about was being Penny's girlfriend, and that's the kind of thing that kind of retroactively ruins the pairing for me.

my ultimate favorite character™: So after everything I said up top – it's actually Eliot.  That snuck up on me!  And my love for Quentin never went away, not by any means, but.  God, Eliot.

prettiest character: If I try to take an objective stance, I'd say it's probably Margo?  Like, she's just unearthly beautiful.  But there's something about Jason Ralph's goddamn face that – I don't know, it just enthralls me; he does okay-ish at playing Normal-Looking for TV, but also if I look at him for too long it kind of hurts, he's so stupidly gorgeous.

my most hated character: Hyman.  And I thought we were supposed to hate Hyman, but then season 5 allegedly happened, and everyone was like, aw, Hyman's okay!  But – no he's not?  He's obviously not okay? He deeply sucks?  Ugh, season 5.

my OTP: Hi, I'm Milo, and welcome to my Tumblr.  But yeah, it's Quentin/Eliot, canonical soulmates and The Ditch I Will Die In.

my NOTP: You know, they kind of wore me down to the point of “fine, what the fuck ever,” but I still don't support Margo/Josh.  It's bad, it's a bad relationship, it was a bad idea.

favorite episode: I really love Be the Penny, but the actual answer is Escape From the Happy Place.  I feel allegiance to Be the Penny, I have not a negative word to say about it, but Escape from the Happy Place is just a level beyond, it's astonishingly good.

saddest death: This question is a microaggression and I will not stand for it.

favorite season: I'm about to break your brain, but – it's 4!  It's season 4!  I fucking love the first ten episodes of s4!  I love the Monster, I love Bad News Bear, I love Hard Glossy Armor, I love fucking Santa Claus.  I think s4 has this great propulsive energy where the rest of the series has always been plagued by a tendency to kind of throw everything at the wall and see if anything sticks, the stakes are clear, the external villain and the emotional stuff work together for once, everyone's performances are so strong.  The collapse at the end feels so appalling to me in part because I was totally on the ride for most of the season.

least favorite season: I mean, it's season 5, but it didn't have to be.  I was never going to get over Quentin's death, per se, but I think there were ways to structure the next season that would've been workable, and honestly there are things about s5 that I do like.  I watched most of 5 feeling like it was – messy, but messy in the same way that s2 was messy, the same way The Magicians has always been a little messy, and it wasn't until the end when I really just threw up my hands and was like, okay, I get it, there was never a plan, none of this was going anywhere.  God, the last couple of episodes still frustrate me so much, because right up until that point, there was still time to salvage a lot of character work, but nope!

character that everyone else in the fandom loves, but i hate: So I don't hate her, and in fact I came to kind of like her eventually, but I did actively hate Julia for a long, long time.  Just.  Like, she really – pushes my buttons in a very specific way, and if she were a real person I would absolutely love myself by having as little contact as possible with Julia, but because everyone except me loves her so much, I really kind of forced myself to delve into her and try to see what people liked about her, and I do think it was a pretty successful project.  I would definitely say at this point that I appreciate Julia as a character, and I have a pretty good sense of what Stuff she activates in me that produces that ruffled reaction, which has allowed me to go beyond Julia Sucks Actually to This Character Is Not Really For Me.  I love and support the 98% of fandom who like Julia!  In my way, I love and support Julia!  But kind of like – a sibling you're sort of forced to into a relationship with, that you love even though they drive you crazy and you're not too sure you will really ever like them.

my ‘you’re piece of trash, but you’re still a fave’ fave: The Monster.  I mean, it's not that I wanted a redemption arc for him or anything (although @portraitofemmy has always been onto something with the idea that if the Monster is essentially a child, allowing Quentin to save the world by parenting him would've been a pretty clever payoff for long-term arcs), he's just the kind of villain that is just endlessly fun to watch.

my ‘beautiful cinnamon roll who deserves better than this’ fave: I mean, that's a pretty succinct summary of the entire Eliot Waugh Experience.

my ‘this ship is wrong, nasty, and makes me want to cleanse my soul, but i still love it’ ship: With the caveat that I still don't believe in guilt because these are just imaginary people in imaginary stories, I definitely still think there's a great romantic tragedy right there for the taking with Eliot/Seb.  I wouldn't say the show should have done it, because that would obviously have been just a very different direction than they intended to go, but as a non-canonical ship, I think it's so potentially rich, and someday I'm going to have time to go back to that story I was writing about them, whether or not anyone else ever gives a shit about it.

my ‘they’re kind of cute, and i lowkey ship them, but i’m not too invested’ ship: I never could figure out what people's issue was with Julia/Penny23, they seemed to make each other happy.  He was a sweet, supportive dude, and I like their little Wild Thornberrys Interdimensional Adventurers family at the end, although I wish they'd done it on purpose, because “guess what life-changing thing is happening to Julia's body without her consent this week!” was not a well the writers needed to go back to, in my opinion.  But I like the idea that Julia ends up with a good guy and a magic kid and is off doing quests and shit, the whole shebang, I thought that was a nice ending.  For whatever that's worth, and I imagine that from the perspective of a real Julia fan, my opinion at this point is not worth much!

[anthropologicalhands]

ceg fic: josh reaches out!

title: josh reaches out! characters: josh & greg summary: josh wants to reconnect. notes: given josh’s recent bouts of therapy and the fact of greg’s return, I am DYING to see them interact. one of the weaknesses of the first season was always the fact that josh and greg’s relationship did not seem like a close friendship, so I’m curious how it will play out in s4. i’m sure we’ll see it before long now, but then i got impatient. technically takes place post-series. Ao3

Therapy has been going great for Josh. Sure, Dr Man Akopian still gives him weird looks sometimes, like when he first mentioned that he had moved in with Bex. But it’s not too bad — progress is supposed to be two steps forward, one step back (even if he sometimes stumbles over which is which) and their sessions have already given him so much new information about how he interacts with the world and the people in his life.

Hector has been super supportive about it, which is great, and Whijo is Whijo: snarky and always texting Vic (who’s really awesome, actually. Between Darryl and Vic, Whijo has definitely upped his boyfriend game these last few years).

But then there’s Greg.

Greg’s current place in his life is hard to define. Sure, Josh has seen him when he visits, when they get together with Whijo and Hector, but they haven’t really talked much. Not like they are sitting in silence or anything: Greg will talk a little about life in Atlanta, but he always falls silent the second Josh says anything, and they haven’t hung out one-on-one since he moved.

With a little self-reflection (and some gentle prompting from Dr. Akopian), Josh kind of gets why. The uneasy undercurrent between them has existed for years; they might have boiled over relatively recently, but the envy and slights and resentment had simmered there for a long time.

They haven’t had a chance to talk about any of that. And that isn’t right. Even if their paths lie in different directions, that doesn’t mean they can’t be close, that they have to let a gap widen between them. They have been best friends since kindergarten—they should act like it.

Josh has a plan to fix that. And a Gesture, with a capital ‘G’.

(which is perfect, because it also stands for Greg)

All that’s left is to see if his childhood friend is open to the idea.

~

He finds Greg at Whijo’s gym, gingerly testing out one of the leg press machines. Josh gives him a bright wave and tries to pretend that he doesn’t notice how Greg’s shoulders slump a little at the sight of him.

“Hey, Serrano! Nice form,” he says, starting off with a compliment. “How’s it going?”

Greg’s mouth twists into a wry half-smile. “Not sure. Whijo says I’m doing all right, but then he also compared my technique to Hector’s mom, so I’m questioning how good it can actually be.”

“Dude, don’t worry, that’s totally a compliment. Hector’s mom is super spry for her age.”

Greg just shrugs, like he’s not entirely sure one way or the other. A slightly awkward pause ensues.

Josh takes it as his cue.

“Hey, uh, did you know Charles Bukowski died on March ninth?”

Josh beams when Greg twists around to look sharply at him.

“…yes, he did,” says Greg, a little confused, eyes narrowing. “I know that. How do you know that?”

“I Googled it.”

“Right. Why did you Google it?”

“That’s next weekend, right?” Greg nods cautiously, and Josh continues, “I’ve been thinking—we haven’t really been spending much time together. Like, actually talking.”

“Yeah, by choice.”

“Not mine,” says Josh firmly, and Greg’s eyebrows arch up and he blinks, surprised. He disengages the machine and stands to face Josh properly.

“Okay, yeah, that’s kind of true.” He crosses his arms. “Why are you bringing it up?”

Josh takes a deep breath. “Just because a lot of stuff has changed since you left: first you went to Emory, and then I almost got married, then I didn’t get married and tried to become a priest instead, then I moved in with Hector’s mom and became a go-go dancer—”

“I mean, I did hear about those things,” interrupts Greg. “Not from you, but like, from everyone else. And, you know, the Daily West Covina, which is garbage but also surprisingly thorough.”

Josh winces. “Yeah, exactly. And I mean, sure, we hang out together when we’re with the guys, but you and I really haven’t been talking with each other. So, I’ve been talking to my therapist about that, and I think that maybe we should make…time. To talk.”

Greg nods, his forehead all wrinkly the way it gets when he’s seriously thinking something over, his hands fiddling with the towel that had been draped over his shoulder.

“…Okay. What does Charles Bukowski have anything to do with it? I had no idea you knew who he was.”

“I mean…” Josh rubs awkwardly at the back of his neck. “You used to mention him a lot.”

Greg cocks his head to the side, like a confused seagull. “Really? You remember that?”

“I heard you,” says Josh defensively. “I just, well, I wasn’t paying that much attention most of the time. But I know you get bored just staying in town during break, so I was thinking that maybe we could go to LA and spend a weekend driving around. You know, visit all of those literary landmarks or whatever.” He starts to tick them off on his fingers. “De Longpre apartment, Skylight Books, Wacko’s Soap Factory, University of Philosophical Research, Green Hills Memorial Park—”

He stops abruptly when Greg holds up his hands, shaking his head.

“Whoa, slow down.” He eyes Josh, clearly confused. “You don’t know anything about Bukowski. How long did it take you to look all of this up?”

“I mean, I didn’t look it all up myself, I found some lists online and kinda went from there…”

“Oh, okay,” Greg nods sagely, in the way that used to annoy Josh, shifting his way like he’s about to impart some new wisdom. “Look, I’ll admit, it’d be cool to visit some of those landmarks, but I know those tours, and given that Bukowski was a functioning alcoholic, I honestly don’t think—”

“Oh, don’t worry, I know!” Josh rushes to explain, eyes wide. Greg pauses, surprised, and Josh continues, “Yeah, I thought that might be a bad idea, so I went through the list and took out all of the liquor stores and made some substitutions.”

Huh, it’s rare to see Greg at a loss for words.

“Oh.” He blinks and clears his throat. “Really, you did that? What kind of substitutions?”

“More bookstores, mostly.” Josh grins and starts counting off his fingers again. “There are specialty bookstores from all over the county: secondhand, antique, New Age, cat-friendly, romance—hear me out, there’s this massive store, The Ripped Bodice, in Culver City that is the place to be—”

“Not everyone can remember names like you, Chan Man. Do you have those written down somewhere?”

“Yup! Here.” Josh produces his phone and passes it over to Greg, watching as he scrolls through, lips moving silently.

“This seems to be less of a Bukowski tour than just a bookstore tour of LA,” says Greg, forehead wrinkling in a very Greg way. He doesn’t sound mean about it, though, just like he is trying to confirm that he understands what Josh is saying.

Josh hadn’t thought about it like that. “I guess so. You’d, uh, still like that though, right?”

“…I would, actually,” admits Greg, and he even sounds surprised, though it’s hard to tell when he’s staring down at his shoes. When he looks up to Josh again, the lines on his face are no longer quite so tense. “Josh?”

“Yeah?”

“Not that I don’t appreciate the thought,” Greg says, again shifting his weight, though not nearly as sanctimoniously as before. “But this doesn’t seem like it would really your thing.”

Since when do you care about what I like? is the unspoken sentiment, and Josh winces at the not-unearned sting.

He shrugs self-consciously, rubbing the back of his head. “I mean, I wouldn’t do it alone. But my therapist been encouraging me to get out of my West Covina bubble, and one way of doing that is by exploring stuff beyond my interests. I know you love old bookstores, and there are books on everything, right? I’ll probably find something cool. Except art history — I tried learning about it for a date and it didn’t really work out. But forget about that—the important part is that we get to really hang out, since we really haven’t had the time what with…everything. We were best friends. I hope we still are. I want this trip to be our chance to reconnect.”

He’s trying not to be pleading, because he knows he does that—that he has a tendency to make decisions without feedback—and this suggestion is supposed to be an olive branch, but it won’t be if it sounds like he just dumped it on Greg and expects him to go along for the ride.

“So…what do you say?” Josh finishes lamely, his shoulders sagging a little.

Greg looks pensive, as Greg often does, and Josh sucks in a breath, waiting.

“Yeah, I would. This sounds awesome, man,” says Greg at last, though his forehead is still wrinkled as he looks between Josh and the phone still in his hands. “Thanks for putting it together. I’m in. Let’s do it –let’s go on a road trip.”

When he passes the phone back to Josh, it almost feels like they are in communion—for once, on the same page.

“Awesome!” Josh beams, delighted. “I knew you’d be into it. Bex said I’d probably have better luck just kidnapping you to have ‘a spontaneous bonding session’,” he deploys air quotes, to convey Rebecca’s precise phrasing, “But I said, dude, Bex, that’s like illegal.”

“Yeah, it super is, I’m glad you didn’t do that.”

“I’ll drive though, don’t worry, I’ll get us there in no time. I’ve had a ton of practice—remember, can’t stop, won’t stop!”

“…Yes, because I don’t have a car anymore, you are still in charge of driving,” says Greg, though now he sounds a little doubtful. But that’s just classic Greg—not everything was gonna change just because he’s in recovery.

Josh grins at him and feels a small spark of delight as Greg meets his eye, and after a moment, offers a hesitant smile back.

[appavevo]

ok this will hopefully be the last thing i say about it tonight but one of the things i hated the most out of season 4 was how fucked over sherlock was the entire time, like the only thing he was trying to do was protect john and mary, like everything he did was to do that, and after mary Chose to jump in front of that bullet with super speed or whatever, john blamed him and beat him in the morgue and people were angry at him  for relapsing and and before the hug scene john was being super tense and weird 

and like earlier when john was like “hes a monster” and ~mary~ was like “yea ok but he’s our monster” or something dumb, like hes not a monster at all!!! he can be a bitch sometimes but a big part of the show is that john is just as shitty as sherlock maybe even more and thats why they work so well together “i’m you aren’t i?” like....

also the hug scene, i was excited at first bc when they started talking about irene, for a split second i thought sherlock was gonna come out like john was like “why not shes out there she likes you yadda yadda why not?” and i thought for a sec that sherlock was gonna be like “well.........” and just LFAKJSD but john apologizes to mary for cheating/??? because he was texting some lady???

like i don’t mean to imply that in real life texting like that is fine, it still constitutes as cheating and all that but like...........this woman lied about her entire dangerous life to john, put his life in danger and literally killed sherlock, threated him twice afterwards, ran off without a word a few months after the baby was born to protect herself EVEN THOUGH sherlock said he would protect her.. WHAT I’M TRYING TO SAY is that mary was shown to be unreliable and unstable and its not fucking surprise that john needed some kind of emotional attachment or whatever bc hes not getting that from mary like idk i’m not a therapist but you don’t need to be a genius to see that john wasn’t happy in that marriage from the get go lol and like. i just don’t care like that scene is supposed to be emotional and to some extant it is, like john and sherlock actually displaying some emotion around each other and offering some amount of comfort, but how that came about is so DUMb like shes a secret assassin who killed the main character of the show i literally do not care that john was texting another woman i don’t i’m sorry

the last episode is a conversation in and of itself. it was so shitty, all of it. the plot, the set, the special effects? it was so bad and poorly done that when the russian version was leaked we all thought they made a fake episode really quick as a red herring or whatever, and then it was just...........real? 

the plot point in general for the sister was dumb and completely out of the blue i thought, but also how they wrote her? there was a line that was like “she can start a war with 5 minutes on twitter” like give me a fucking break jesus christ thats so fucking dumb. like i know being realistic isn’t this shows biggest priority but this episode feels like a knock off x-men movie its so dumb

don’t even get me started with the whole dog/kid thing. they really had that sweet scene in tld where sherlock was finding redbeard in his mp when he was dying and they totally fucked that scene in the ass by making it something he completely made up? what the hell is that? 

also MYCROFT. so in the previous seasons mycroft is shown and someone who is intelligent and collected, callous but very caring of sherlock. in s4, hes really different? like hes confused about a lot of things and seems to be more .... bumbling? is that the right word? well anyway there is that particular scene in tld where mycroft and john are searching 221b and mycroft says shit like sherlock is a thinking machine and yada yada yada and then mrs hudson is like no!!! hes an emotional guy!!! like yea he is! and i thought mycroft new that?

theres that scene in tsib where john and mycroft are talking in the cafe about sherlock and irene. mycroft in the scene is talking to john about sherlocks emotions. he admits that sherlocks emotions are confusing to him, but he definitely is shown to acknowledge that they do in fact exist, and that they are complex and a big part of who sherlock is. like how the hell do you go from “my brother has the brain of a scientist, or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. what might we deduce about his heart?” to “I know his thought processes better than any other human being... yada yada yada” like that scene was about finding out what triggered sherlock into doing ALL OF THAT when the mycroft of the previous seasons would know, at least a little bit. he knows how important john is to sherlock and when john cuts him off completely he doesn’t acknowledge that THAT might be the trigger???

whatever i’m just bitter and mad and if this ends up being fake and the final season will show up and be great and all that then i will eat my words but that sounds so exhausting giving them the benefit of the doubt

TLDR: s4 bad

[ermojas]

Goddammit i said i wasn't going to do another drunk rewatch

But in fairness i am just lightly tipsy and in even more fairness was already watching TEH and i couldnt handle it silently.

- i love John's Sherlock cosplay coat. He looks like such a little nerd.

- Wait mycrofts office was always this terrible EMP dungeon

- Mad ppassive aggressive mrs. Hudson is my spirit animal

- I love how when Sherlick says "and what about john watson?" Anthea looks at mycroft like "please i cant with this high school shit right now"

- Mrs. H's first thought to "moving on" was that John would leave the country before finding someone new. Just saying.

- Also john agreed to "So soon, after sherlock?" So like he wasnt defining it platonically either there were ya mate.

- Oooookkay, i know its a real street, but the fact that their date was on "Mary le bone" Road is a bit too hashtag straight sex wink wink nudge nudge for comfort.

- Sherrlick calling mycroft blood like "blahd" is my spirit animal.

- This whole restaurant scene is so silver screen 1955 and i am Here. For. It.

- "Sorry that took so long," is a thing that secret agents say when they are using the bathroom as an excuse after they hacked into something.

- Call me a liar but him worrying that john will be "indiscreet" is like the gayest Victorianest thing sherlock could say.

- Forgett the letter, we still dont know what mary's "Secret Tattoo" is.

- Reblog if you want a Dad Hug from Lestrade and a Daddy Headslam from John.

- I hereby declare Lestrade's new name is Goldfish.

- The main question of this episode is Why did john only suspect the patient after he tried to sell him pornos? Seriously he gets this look on his face that's like "oh no, sherlock, you ain't pulling that porno trick on me again,"?

- I love Molly in this episode. She is so cheeky.

- The suicide chips shop with the sex shelves was off of Mary Le Bone rd too. Gawd. Wait he also offered molly chips? Oh nooooooo, molly...

- This is where molly and sherlock had their closure. That whole shit in s4 was beyond unnecessary

- "Saint James the Less" is just another way of saying "Jim's number 2" isn't it, mary. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

- My subtitles say that Mary shouted "Get up, John" when they ran at the fire. Lady, hes ina fire. He thought of that.

- Fuck you in particular, elephant pattern on Moran's throw pillows

- John's Down to Business danger walk is my spirit animal

- "What are you doing?"

"Coming"

- Its kinda weird that this episode and v for vendetta and the rdj sherlock movie all have this same parliament explosion plot. Except maybe it was ACD and im being ignorant. Damn i really need to read acd.

- Im not a drunk but i did just notice i have a cut on my finger

- Moran types 051113. Do3ss that mean something. Playse moftiss, may oy 'ave some'ore.

- Sherlock faking his mind palace so he can make an o face is my spirit animal.

- John interrupts sherlocks fake speech with "yeah i know" as soon as he mentions mary. Hes trying to keep him from saying something "indiscreet." You're dying, you pathetic

- Sherlock's face when john forgives him. It isn't fake. He didn't think he would. I can't

- Codename Lazarus was about the fake death. If i remember my stifled fundamentalist christian upbringing correctly wasn't the whole point of the lazarus story the fact that they had to convince lazarus' sisters Mary and Martha that he was truly risen from the dead? Oh my god did 5hey name Mrs. HudsoN MARTHA so they could make that one vague bible joke? I hate everything?

- Nobody who wrote three different fake resurrection scenes could write The Final Problem and be serious about it. Stay Anderson, my friends. Stay Anderson.

- Someday i want to feel as free as Anderson, gigglig and getting tangled up in yarn and newsprint.

- Sherrlock and John relievedly pretending they are laughint tears because sherlock tricked john and not becsuse they had A Moment is my spiriblahaha animablalala

- John giggling over mollys version of porn parody sherlock is...everything.

- Im sorry how could anyone not read the end of the episode where Cam realizes Sherlock's weak spot as John as not complete and utter evidence of...like this whole epusode is so sexually tense i cannot...likr every ingle confrontational scene isnot like haha they are friends but in an almist gay way but no homo haha, like the entire plot HINGES on the tension of him coming back and then Ends by Foreshadowing a Wedding as if it is the literal apocalypse.