#and it's possible rio showed up because billy showed up

[rootspiral]

Agatha All Along deep dive: episode 9 part 2

(AAA entries: ep1 [1][2][3][4] ep2 [1][2][3][4] ep3 [1][2][3] ep4 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][+1] ep5 [1][2][3][4][5] ep6 [1][2][3] ep7 [1][2][3][4][5][6] ep8 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] ep9 [1][2])

I'm glad nicky came up with a cool new tune because according to period movies and shows greensleeves is the only song anyone ever knew

look at that meek little smile, ughhhh. nicky is like two days old and this asshole has already figured out he's the perfect prop for her murder sprees. and these poor women are calling her sister and are willing to help too.

the spell is te accipimus in circulum, we accept you in the circle, and yes that makes me cry a little. we accept you in our community. and the spell is yellow air magic, which sounds like the most empathic kind if Lilia is any indication.

that's interesting, you can't really tell that well from screencaps but go rewatch the scene, this witch is making mushrooms grow with yellow magic instead of green?? is it just a spell (she is holding a book) or have I been getting it all wrong and color has nothing to do with the type of magic one has?

or maybe??? the color depends on the coven you're in?? the salemites all had blue magic for example. and now that I think about it the stone circle is a protection spell but it's not red/orange.

the meaning of this scene is so glaring dear lord. agatha was never going to give these women a chance to prove that yes, there are people out there who could love and help and accept her. she has shut herself up to that possibility a long time ago.

and she stole the soup too. awful.

I've seen all the different theories about nicky needing to feed on witches too, or nicky needing soul sacrifices to survive because he's the son of death etc. we don't have enough evidence to prove anything yet, but personally I headcanon nicky as a totally normal kid, that makes this story even more tragic.

and aww that baby suckling on the little pudgy fist

nicky doesn't look that happy about what he's been asked to do, does he?

we establish that nicky was sickly (maybe he was born with some internal defect that rio temporarily patched up?) we also see him steal the bell agatha will use for her Road scam in the future.

and we meet yet another witch being kind and wanting to help.

agatha: I love this six year old so much I'm gonna make him accessory to murder

dO yOU ShaME YouR MOtHER

and the big fake gasp too. as usual this bitch has conned a whole community

like, she's convinced herself that other witches are bad and are after her WHILE relying on witches's good hearts to con and kill them. what sort of mental gymnastics???

color goes from yellow to purple. nicky waits outside while his mom commits murder, it's not a good look on agatha. completely fucked up, actually.

(I'm terrified that the goat will end up being an agent of mephisto or something idiotic like that, lemme tell you. I hope they're just keeping it for milk and company.)

and here's the million dollar question. nicky has seen his mom kill literally since he was born, and now he's old enough to start realizing what that means.

oooh I know that look, that's agatha when she's put on the spot. she avoids his gaze, she can't be sincere with him.

and of course she's teaching herself spells from a book. nerrrrrrd

nicky, bless his soul, appears to give it a good thought and then offers a practical suggestion. I guess he wouldn't mind to have a roof on his head and some friends too.

GREAT acting from kathryn here. the quick OH SHIT face followed by the super final NO, with her jaw so rigid. in typical agatha fashion, when she's upset she becomes avoidant.

this is evanora's legacy. despite agatha's immense love for nicky, she is passing all that pain down and inflicting it on him.

remember when she called billy a survivor? this is the greatest asset in her opinion, the one she wants to teach her son. the truth is, she is angry at witches because she is scared of them, she's scared of being targeted again. but look at that kid's dark circles, I can't believe she's making him sleep in the woods, sick as he is!

really really fantastic subtlety. agatha wants to sound wise and strong, but she looks scared, uncertain, guilty.

see how nicky looks at agatha while he sings? he's checking to see if she's noticing, because his mom likes music and likes his voice. he's afraid he has upset her and wants to make her smile. he tried to reason with her, and now he tries to soothe her. this is what happens when you have an immature parent, a child will want to help, they will try to fix things. they'll end up parenting their parent, and it should always be the other way round.

agatha takes the bait. she's relieved that the conversation has moved to a safer subject. but oh, this script is so good. this is a mostly innocent, mostly sweet remark, but with a possessive undertone. don't forget that you are mine, she says.

and still, the love is real. even in a fucked up situation like this, these moment of happiness are precious and genuine and will linger on. look at how adoringly nicky looks at his mom, she's literally the sun and center of his small world, and that's how agatha likes it: she created nicky because she needed someone who could be hers without any baggage or consequences. but it turns out that raising a child is not a cheat code for love, it's one of the most difficult, most significant and impactful decisions a human can make.

[aparticularbandit]

Okay but:

1) How did Billy know where Agatha was? Did he know she was under a spell before finding her in Westview, or did he figure that out once he was there? (Agnes's screen time is straightforward by her perception but not necessarily analogous to what happens to everyone else outside of her perception.)

2) Were there really three years between WandaVision and DSMOM? The official timeline sets it in 2024 (after WandaVision in 2023 - it also sets it before Hawkeye, which I disagree with, but not the point), which means no. But Agatha All Along takes place in 2026. Why did it take an extra two years for Rio to show up to free Agatha - as part of her job (her words in episode one, and I don't think her lines are jaded by Agnes's perception - I think Rio's words cut through that - even if Agnes wouldn't have understood them the way Agatha would)?

3) Agnes's worldview switched from nosy neighbor in a sitcom to detective in a crime show so suddenly, and the show implies this happened as a result of Wanda's death - since she's investigating that crime - but why did it take two additional years for that to happen? Why didn't it happen immediately when Wanda died? (Deadpool and Wolverine is theorized to take place in that universe's 2023, so they could have set Agatha All Along earlier; Agatha All Along kept getting pushed back - did Jac always intend for it to be three years, regardless of when the show aired?)

Which really leads to:

4) What is the significance of three years? Why is all of this happening now and not immediately after Wanda's supposed death? Rio says Wanda is gone, so Agatha should be able to claw herself free - why did it take two years after Wanda's supposed death for Rio to show up if Wanda really died in DSMOM? (Rio says she's gone; she doesn't say she's dead.)

[stormythalamus]

agatha finale rant

so I’ve been seeing a lot of people complaining about the finale of Agatha and I wanted to give my two cents on their main points: 

1. “they used agatha’s show as a way to promote a man!!” well yes! that’s how marvel tv works im afraid. or any tv, really. wandavision was used to introduce agatha and monica, which led to their projects in the mcu (aaa, marvels). agatha introduced billy, leading to his future in visionquest or his solo series, which will introduce tommy and vision, which will lead to children’s crusade to reintroduce wanda. this is common for any tv show, but especially a big, connected franchise like marvel. i find it so concerning that even after all the promotion that showed us billy and agatha as co-leads, people were STILL shocked when the finale sets up a future story centered around him. like i hate to break it to yall but marvel wants money. and more shows means more money.

2. “they killed off a lesbian woman and not the gay man!” first of all, in the comics, agatha is a spirit guide for the scarlet witch. this form is her most comic accurate yet. also, did yall really think that was an unfair ending? or an ending PERIOD? all her death made me think of was the possibilities for the future with both billy AND rio. and again; rio was promoted as the ‘antagonist’ to agatha since the beginning. i don’t know how people went into this excepting a happily ever after for these two. they were always depicted as tragic lovers, and i honestly think the kiss of death was beautiful and poetic. i also don’t think this is the last we’re seeing of rio. and, as a side note, homophobia is still not okay! it doesn’t matter if you’re also gay; lesbians can be homophobic towards gay men, and gay men can be lesbophobic towards lesbians. and i’ve seen wayyyy too much of both in this fanbase. you can criticize characters and critique actors without bringing up their sexuality. we have enough incel homophobes doing that for us

3. if you’re still complaining about wanda not coming back i have no hope for you

4. this show, since day ZERO, was promoted as a show with billy and agatha as coleads. while i wish we had more backstory for how agatha and rio met, the salem flashbacks involving nicholas, the road scheme, and the song were much more important to the show. the parallels between nicky and billy were explored throughout the season a lot more than agatha and rios story (whether or not you like it, it’s still true (i personally wish we had a bit more on how they met 😭))

5. sending hate to actors about things their characters did is STILL not okay! and never will be!

6. this might be a hot take but if you’re only watching a show for a ship and don’t care about the story at all your opinion is irrelevant to me. like people who started watching after it was revealed in the show that agatha and rio were lovers (because, correct me if i’m wrong, this was never revealed before the episodes dropped) have no right to be upset when the show focuses on other things. and this is coming from a MASSIVE fan of agathario. and a lesbian. i loved the fact that i was watching characters who just happened to be lesbians have their own story. yes, i wish there was more agathario in the flashbacks. but i’m really not upset at all by what we got. and don’t get me wrong, people have every right to be disappointed, but they don’t have the right to hate on the creators and actors of the show. that’s not cool.

this is way longer than i thought it was gonna be 😭😭 hope everyone enjoyed the finale

[thisischaostragic]

what if that headcanon that Nicky lives in the afterlife with Rio is completely true, but the twist is that Agatha has known this all along? that she has been searching for power and outrunning Rio specifically because she believes he should get to be free from her?

Agatha killed that first coven very soon after Nicky’s death. I imagine Rio could’ve been trying to talk to her, but she kept running and killing until, eventually, Rio catches up to her and tells her that Nicky is in her strange little afterworldly home waiting for her.

but Agatha knows that the last thing Nicky chose to do was to stop killing. and Agatha — maybe even knowing full well what it meant (based on her facial expressions) — said okay, because her son didn’t want more blood on his hands and she could give that to him. but then, in her grief, she builds him a monument of bodies anyway.

and so Agatha is faced with the worst possible version of herself and she shuts down. Rio says Nicky misses her, and Agatha doesn’t believe her, because Agatha knows that spending eternity with her own violent mother would be torture, and Agatha believes that Nicky must feel that way, too. she goes further and further into darkness to prove to herself that this is for the better.

until Billy sees the good in her. that clearly means a lot to her; up until that point, the only person who had seen that much of her and said yes, you, of course I love you still, has been Rio. literally Death. but here’s this boy who shows Agatha the possibility of forgiveness, and she decides to see if she can keep his faith — not because she wants redemption, but because she wants to go home.

[rita-repulsa-ke]

Rio and Billy Part Two

Pt1 Pt2 Pt3 Pt4 Pt5 Pt6 Pt7 Pt8 Pt9

"Um. Ms. Death? Rio? Can I call you Rio? I don't think she's coming back. Really."

"Probably not."

"I mean, it's been three days."

"Has it? Wow."

"…Yep. Three days of you just sitting here. In my room. On my carpet. Kind of in the middle of everything."

"It's nice carpet."

"Right. …Any chance you were thinking of leaving soon?"

"Nope."

"…Why?!"

"Because I think you know how to contact her. So if I stay here long enough, maybe you'll be motivated to try and convince her to come back."

"…I really don't think that will work. I don't think she likes me that much. I don't think she likes anyone that much."

"It's worth a try, though. And I'm not doing anything else at the moment. Well, this part of me isn't."

"…expellere hoc malum…expellere hoc malum…."

"What are you mumbling—hey, are you trying to banish me? I'm not evil! Why does everyone think that?"

"Uh, I'm really, really sorry about that, rookie mistake on my part. Could you please put down the knife?"

"Well. I've just thought of something else I could try, something she might come back for, if she's paying you any attention at all."

"…Is it stabbing me? It's stabbing me, isn't it?"

"You got it. Hold still for a minute, okay?"

"Agatha! Help!"

"...So you're, what, stooping to chasing kids around with knives now? You are so obsessed with me."

"Hi, Ags. Nice to see you. Even though you're a ghost."

"That's your fault, honey, you shouldn't have made me do it."

"I was kind of hoping you'd give up and die already."

"Not. Done. Yet. I've still got things I want to do."

"Have you figured out telekinesis?"

"Of course. Watch this."

"Hey, Agatha! Stop throwing my things around."

"Shush, Teen. So? Pretty good, huh?"

"I knew you would. It takes most ghosts years, you know."

"That's really sad to hear, those are pitiful ghosts. I'm currently working on possession."

"…Oh?"

"Yes, but why did you say it like that—oh. Heh. You'd prefer me in a body, even if it wasn't mine?"

"It's very slightly less creepy. I really do hate ghosts."

"And I could kiss you."

"…And you could kiss me."

"But I wouldn't."

"…"

"Ooh, that one hit, huh? But hey, if you want a kiss from a ghost, I'd consider it."

"…maybe."

"Wow, I actually did not think you were that desperate. Do you want Teen to show you to how to use the Internet? They have all kinds of websites for dating these days, you could finally move on."

"You wouldn't want that either, Agatha. You love me."

"…You know what I've just realized? You can't stab me! I can be as mean as I want. Let's see. I don't love you at all, even a little. In fact, I never liked you and also, you're ugly."

"…I know none of that is true, Agatha."

"Sure, but it hurts your feelings anyway and the best part is, you can't do anything about it. This is great, I'm loving this. Here, let me think of a few mo—aww, she left. Come back! I was just getting into it."

"…You were kind of mean, Agatha."

"I think what you meant to say was, thanks for not letting me get stabbed, Agatha. You're swell."

"…You do still like her, though, huh?"

"What? No, I don't."

"You're such a liar. You know, maybe you two deserve each other."

"So next time I'm going to let her stab you, okay?"

"Are you sure there will be a next time? She might not come back."

"Hah. You don't know Rio. She's obsessed with me. She always comes back."

"I don't know, you don't have a body, you can't really kill people, she hates ghosts and you were really mean. Don't you think it's possible she might move on?"

"...No. She wouldn't. ...she wouldn't..."

"...Yeah, so you definitely still like her."

"Shut up, Teen. Let me think. ...She couldn’t actually do that. Could she?"

Link to the masterpost

[ennn]

Look, the show has set itself up for a sequel so obviously I'd be surprised it doesn't happen

Yes, this could turn out to be entirely wishful thinking or nothing might happen because TV development in general and Marvel is a mess and shit happens but here's what I want to believe:

There is a rumour from a few weeks back that they are developing a sequel to AAA that isn't the Vision series.

I know, this seems surprising since many have the impression the Vision series is the last of the Wandvision trilogy BUT considering Ultron is said to be in the Vision series, and it's centred on White Vision as the lead character, I don't expect it to focus on witchcraft or magic, or to have the same themes and style WV and AAA have.

So rumour is that the AAA sequel will be focused on finding Tommy. This came about even before Episode 5 from what I remember.

My theory or possibly deluded thinking is that during the production / post-production of AAA a sequel was greenlit and they ended up editing (or even reshooting) bits of the finale for the setup -- to the unfortunate extent of undercutting Agatha's story and leaving a bunch of things unresolved (for the sequel).

Assuming there is a sequel planned, you can clearly see how the finale spells it out with Billy and Agatha as the leads, Rio as a ready antagonist, the quest to find Tommy, a similar witchy flavour and also similar humour -- and it could also lead into the next Scarlet Witch movie.

Now usually sequels are announced right after the show ends but it's possible they're still working deals or details out. And these may be impacted by how AAA is being received.

But yeah let's wait and see for now.

[alliseaisfandom]

Some Coven of Chaos headcanons

(I haven't watched the finale yet and so I'm coping already just in case. For arguments sake we assume the road was real and at the end it gave Jen, Billy, Agatha and Rio the rest of the coven back, because I'm sappy and live in denial)

They're all alive and meet for holidays. Keep that in mind for the rest of the list.

Jen mixes the best drinks. Alcoholic or not, everyone is convinced there's magic involved. She's got a lifelong ownership of the liqueur cabinet at everyone's house.

Alice can play the cello. Billy is the only one who knows this fact. That is until he can get her tipsy enough to break it out someday play for the coven (he almost got it at Samhain)

Lilia has a "memorial pool" in her backyard.

She was also the one to veto Cats out of Billy's suggestion list for musicals they could go to

Said musical outing has yet to happen since almost everyone voted in a different thing

Agatha voted for wicked.

Rio voted for beetljuice (there was a fight over this, Billy remembers very little of it other than hearing Eddie yell "just because you say it three times doesn't mean your vote counts more". It was the first time he brought Eddie to meet the Coven, and sure at the time he didn't know he was arguing with Death Herself, but Billy was impressed regardless)

Lilia voted for Carmen. When told that Opera was not on the list, she argued that dying granted her an extra vote.

Alice agreed, and so West Side story lives on Billy's whiteboard with 2 votes

Jen voted first and picked Chicago, which Billy also voted for, unfortunately when he tried using Lilia's argument, he was reminded rather aggressively and extensively by Rio that being unmade and Dying are actually two very different things

It's the most anyone has ever heard her talk at once and Billy still regrets not taking out his notebook to remember more of it

Unfortunately he only remembered that he did in fact die as William after he and Eddie were on their way home

Rio hates easter with a passion. She has a great time during Good Friday and then sulks for the rest of the weekend

She also steers clear of most of South America and southern Europe in the ends of cotober-beginning of November, not that she doesn't like the Death related holidays, it's just that people keep spotting her even when she doesn't want them to! It's exclusive to that time of year and she's been trying - and failing- to stop it for centuries

The Titanic was a gift from Agatha to Rio. Yes the Iceberg was an accident, in the way that it rendered useless the very precarious fire she'd set to one of the engine rooms

Rio was very thankful.

Billy's school organised an end of year trip to Italy. That night he got a call from Lilia where she told him the best places to go to, what tourist traps to avoid, and asked if he could bring her back a package stashed away under the floorboards of what he eventually found out was a heavily guarded historical monument

The first time they all actually got together to celebrate anything was Alice's birthday dinner

Agatha found herself with 6 unwanted guests in her kitchen and zero explanation. She did not kick them out, a fact she loudly proclaims to regret as often as possible

There is a group chat

Billy, Alice e and Rio are the most active in it, with Jen following, a bit behind because she "actually has a real job that takes up time that you all seem to have free for some reason" (her herb garden died that afternoon and she refused to answer any of Rio's texts for a week after that.)

Lilia never interacts, and they're not entirely sure she receives the messages, as everyone's phones glitch when they try to check

Agatha leaves them on read

Jen was invited to a beauty event in New York. She brought Billy as her plus one, who proceeded to act as her agent all night, getting her two new brand deals, and a spot on a talk show. She brings him along every time now

To be continued

[agathasvidal]

below the cut is a short theory/deep dive into how i believe agatha all along is going to end between agatha and rio. it is inspired by one theory that is doing the rounds, and is the one i originally theorised myself after watching episode six last week, but i wanted to depict the how and the why of why agathario is important to the show, and why i don’t think a ‘final battle’ will be clearly cut between a ‘good’ and ‘bad’ side

like many others, i think it’s reasonable to predict that rio is there to take billy, but she does not actually know who billy is because of the sigil. small things to back this up include:

1. agatha asking rio why she’s there in episode one and rio replying “my job”. agatha is like boom she is here to take someone away, and it can’t be me, and there’s only one new person who’s recently appeared in my life so who the f is this kid why is he important

2. rio saying “did you hide evidence?” to agatha. ironically, someone is being hidden in the closet from her…

3.. rio telling lilia “go on tell them what you saw” in the beginning of episode five. we can infer that rio knows that lilia knows who rio is. perhaps we could go one further, and suggest that rio knows lilia helped hide whoever she is looking for, and is almost taunting lilia in an ‘i really do see it all’ way

3. agatha’s “don’t” to rio in episode four, when teen is injured. it’s obvious, and has been spoken about so much, but i really think this is a moment of confirmation from agatha that rio is there for him, and she needs to beat rio in discovering who he is. it’s confirmation that the two are working against each other, but it is so hidden between their flirtation and tension.

4. there’s been a big debate about why rio would be a witch, whilst she’s also *potentially* death, but i think it was important for the show to portray rio as a witch so the audience know that a sigil would also work on rio, so she cannot discover teen’s identity. why else would they make it such a big deal about sigils only working on witches?

5. the significant of the no. 3 and agatha/rio in the show all hinting at the cycle of life, birth and death: maiden, mother, crone; agatha’s shirt in ep 5; the clocks being on 3.33 when rio arrives in ep 1, the amount of rabbits we’ve seen (3 rabbits/hares represent birth-life-death cycle in christianity and egyptian hieroglyphs)

SO,

to agatha, seeing rio means something is about to be taken away from her. i think that is their entire dynamic within this show, and their entire relationship in general, after the loss of nic. agatha is presented with rio which means she must work out what rio is there to take. that’s why she suspected teen was someone important, because rio was there for either her or teen. teen had to be one of two people. that’s why agatha viscerally protested the idea of coming close to death in the first trial. because she does not want confirmation that rio is there to take this boy from her. she does not even know who he is, but he is important enough for rio to involve herself in agatha’s life once more. he is important enough for rio to go out of her way and resurface old feelings that they both know, the other should not be resurfacing. he is important enough to be seeked out.

by rio taking away billy, she not only repeats her and agatha’s history once more, but she completely takes away the possibility from agatha that she could ever find a way to be reunited with nicky. agatha needs billy, like she needed wanda, to end the quest she’d spent centuries on. rio is not JUST taking another child away from agatha, she is completely breaking the entire, vicious cycle of longing and hope for the son they lost.

i think that rio thinks that is for the best. for her agatha. to stop this endless chase for something rio knows she cannot have. rio is doing it out of love, even though it tears them apart more than anything else ever could. that is the lesson that agatha needs to be taught: the cycle of birth, life and death. (yes i could then start hypothesising about agatha dying, but i think it’s been overdone)

so that is our potential final battle. a battle between death and life. they are made for each other, but that is ultimately what tears them apart. one spends their life bound to defying death, and the other does not get life, but is bound to upholding it.

agatha is Death’s life. but all death can do to life, is take from it. in the end, rio will always be agatha’s death. they have always been doomed.

[21loveatfirstsight]

My ted talk about Rio Vidal

Facts that we can’t or won’t deny:

She is the MCU incarnation of Death.

She is Agatha’s ex (wife).

Now let’s talk about her characteristics and behavior in Agatha All Along.

Episode 1: She shows nothing but love for Agatha when she “visits”.

We now know that Agatha gets a different version of what people say to her, or sometimes none at all or people stays silent but she gets a response in her version, only dialogue with pure, strong emotions come through; so maybe all of Rio’s dialogues are not completely what it seems. I assume all the dialogues about the case is the spelled version, or Agatha self-inserted dialogues to keep her in the “detective” persona; so let’s talk about some that seems out of place or have double meaning, because I think some of it actually get through the spell:

If you want to be in control, you can be + Is this really how you see yourself? Rio is showing support, encouragement, or at least that is how Agatha interprets it.

That’s not why I came over. I think this line got changed a bit to fit the scenario, but it still carries some of Rio’s intention, which is to break Agatha out of Wanda’s spell (to kill, marry, kiss her).

Do you remember why you hate me? This line may get delivered in a different tone in reality (Rio laughing, mockingly says it maybe).

Are you hiding evidence + Well, you’re only lying to yourself. This seems out of place. The reality version could be: are you hiding something from me (thought? Sus af).

These out of place lines show Rio caring about Agatha, or it could mean that’s how Agatha interprets Rio. Nonetheless, if they decided to show Rio’s pov, I will get back to this.

There’s nothing that needs to be said about the morgue scene, except maybe Rio stays and watches her ex-wife put on a show for her, lmao (I need someone to draw her making money rain as Agatha distressingly get out of the spell).

I suspect the painting has something to do with their past. I will wait for more information.

Yes, I know she came at Agatha all stabby stabby after Agatha woke up, but let’s be honest, that could just be how Death expresses love. And her words in this conversation also shows caring and love, it’s only Agatha expressed hatred toward her.

Also, I rewatched episode 1 and now just realize Billy witness all that domestic chaos bet them, yikes (kinda feel lucky that he can’t read their mind, because damn, that’ll definitely be something).

Episode 4: This is the episode that explores their dynamic the most.

Agatha knew Rio doesn’t belong in the coven, she can’t be part of any coven. But to show up in front of her now, she looks extremely angry and upset at Rio.

In the trials, apart from Agatha tricking Rio into saying “get my bodies”, I found 2 interesting exchanges between them.

Agatha told Rio “No”. She knows Rio’s identity, so I think she thinks Rio is here to collect someone’s soul (at the time, it’s “Teen” who she suspects being Nicholas).

Agatha told Rio “You’re too early”. Given the new trailer having Alice look alive and well, with that dialogue, maybe witches won’t die within the trials, everyone will come back at the ends or the last trial and that’s when things go batshit crazy and Lady Death comes to collect “her bodies” (could possible that’s how Agatha and Rio met too).

Now, let’s talk about the moment Billy is injured.

Agatha is panicked and upset, and she is showing it. When she told Rio “Don’t” (take him away again!), Rio changes from silently watching the witches fussing to slightly surprised, and then her eyes look down at Billy, look at Agatha like she is thinking something. She knows who Billy is, and now with how Agatha behaves, she knows Agatha actually thinks he’s Nicholas and cares about him. That can’t be good. So now she has to do what she hates: hurt Agatha, aka telling her the truth, which is like taking Nicholas from Agatha all over again. And what annoying the most is that she is the only one knowing and Agatha will trust with that kind of information.

There is nothing needed to explore about the “She’s my scar” scene, lol. So let’s dissect the hug scene. That hug is Agatha expresses her gratitude to Rio (for not taking her son), Rio takes a moment to enjoy it but she has to stop at the almost-kiss. Because she knows, if they kissed, Agatha will hate her more after she knows Billy’s identity. Better to rip off that band-aid early, right? Rio’s face after is showing that she still dislikes it though.

Episode 5: She is at her best, chaotic evil entity who is in love with Agatha.

I mean, she really enjoys Agatha’s trial at first, because she likes to see strangers trying to torture Agatha (like they possibly can anyway, lol). But the moment Evanora shows up, her demeanor changes. Yes, strangers can hurt Agatha, because they can barely scrape the surface even if they throw everything they have in. And Agatha can do what she does best, trick them into handling over their power, and Rio gets the bodies. Not to mention Rio can see Agatha’s emotions if those witches can poke through the bear (their relationship is so poisoned, i love it). But not the MIL, because Agatha will actually become vulnerable, which Rio won’t absolutely allow. Because that will hit Agatha deep, and that will make her fall, and Rio will lose her.

Also there is a small scene where Agatha climbs out of the trial, Rio’s look and music is kinda strange. Let’s wait to see what they will show us.

I won’t look past how Rio mysteriously disappears whenever the coven is in crisis, maybe being Death, she can’t intervene with what decides the fate of the coven.

[isagrimorie]

I rewatched episode 7 again, Death’s Hand in Mine and I have a sudden, morbid realization.

I’m going to put this under the cut because if I’m right it could be a huge spoiler, but also my theory might depress some people. (Hint: this has nothing to do with Agatha and Rio. Or, no, it has something to do with Rio but it doesn’t have anything to do with her romantic relationship with Agatha).

This has something to do with Lilia’s reading and her possible fate.

Fair warning just in case the spoiler cut doesn’t work.

SPOILER SPACE

——

The Death card doesn’t usually mean the person who gets the card dies. Death means sudden transformation.

But, in Lilia’s case, I think… I think it does mean Lilia is truly dead. Because as they cycle through all the evidence of who Rio is, Lilia’s destination, Lilia’s Road leads right back into the moment where she fell into the Westview tunnel.

This is where Lilia finally comes face to face with Rio’s true form, Death.

I’ve wondered why Rio chose that moment to be face to face with Lilia and (re)introduce herself. I thought one of possibility is that in that gap Lilia actually made a bargain with Death, or something.

And then, I realized, as I re-wound the scene with a sudden heartrending realization.

There is a reason why Death showed up in that cavern.

Because at that moment where Lilia fell… she died.

The Lilia we saw walking the tunnels with Jen, reading her own Tarot card did make a bargain with Death. And Lilia was walking on Borrowed time to help save her coven.

Because time is fluid for Lilia.

I realized this when I rewatched Lilia fall with a sudden, severity and noticed the angle of her head as she hit the ground.

And now Lilia reassuring Billy, ‘We’re cool, baby.’ takes on newer meaning because she forgave him, and she’s sparing him with the truth of her death. Her death, to the rest of the coven, is her sacrifice in the tower.

It’s not the fall caused by a temper tantrum.

And if my theory is true that meant that Rio bent the rules a little because, in the end, she will still get Lilia. Sort of.

For Lilia Calderu Time is an illusion.

Lilia can jump in any point in her life. From the beginning of her classes with her Maestra or any point of her 400 years of life. She can, still jump in time within her own personal time line to live her life or help her coven.

Her present selves won’t thank her future self, because of the memory gaps it will leave her, reeling and confused. Fully in control of her time jumping Lilia though would have fun with it.

Lilia will still die, she will still have that appointment with Death, but to quote one Clara Oswald, she can take that road back to Rio the long way ‘round.

[helpbutton95]

The Trial of Agatha Harkness

There's a buzzing in her ears, absorbing her mind. Distracting, consuming her senses. She squeezed her eyes tightly shut to focus where she was. What was she doing? Why was she here? She did recognise this place. No. Wait. She did. She knew this place. She blinked away the shrill buzz that filled her mind. Wooden cabinets. Her rundown oven. She was in her kitchen.

Westview. 

She was back in Westview. How? Why?

"Babe? You in here?" Babe? Her brow drew tight. She had never been called Babe in her life. "Have you seen my keys?"

Keys?

"Babe?" There was that stupid, disgusting pet name again. Familiar concerned brown eyes came into view. Scratch that. Rio hadn't been concerned for her in over 500 years. "Ags, you ok?"

No, she was concerned. Oh no. What was happening? Agatha frowned down at herself, a familiar robe covering her body, the same one as before.

"Agatha?" Her own grey eyes snapped up to Rio's. Rio, who had her disgustingly well fitted white shirt rolled to her elbows, black fitted pants that Agatha knew would show the curve of her ass all too well.

"I'm fine," she lied a little too smoothly. Rio's brow was still drawn tight. Agatha held a breath. What the hell was happening? "The keys are in the bowl, in the porch."

Rio nodded, moving closer and Agatha held a breath. "Thanks, I'll see you tonight."

Agatha smiled to add to the charade and Rio matched it, quickly swooping in for the briefest and chaste kiss that she had ever shared with the other woman.

As soon as Rio turned Agatha released a breath. She could do this, whatever this charade was, while she worked out how to get the hell out of here. She pulled the robe tighter. Was she in another Hex? Was Wanda back?

"Billy's going to want to go to the Mall, I've already told him no, he's still grounded after that hospital incident last week and Nicky's been changed!" Rio's call from the front door snapped Agatha from whatever thoughts she'd had. Who the hell was Billy? Nicky?

A baby's gurgle snapped her attention to the living room. Another coo and her heart flew to her throat. No. It wasn't possible. Her hand drew to her locket as she took a tentative step forward. She didn't hear the closing of the front door. Dark lockets of hair framed the baby's head as they sat with a wooden horse in his hand.

No. It couldn't be. He was gone. Her heart thundered in her ears. Stepping closer, he turned to her. His dimpled grin flashed up at her.

"Momum," he gurgled. It was a trick. An awful one. Her deepest fear. But she he looked exactly the same. Temptation rose as her body took her closer. He looked exactly the same. The same dark chestnut locks on his head, the same grey eyes that matched her own. The same button nose.

"Hi," Agatha breathed. She could linger a moment. Settling in front of him, she froze as he crawled to her. Her body reacted on instinct. Lifting him under his arms, and into her lap. Hesitantly, she cradled him as she had when he was a newborn, placed in her arms. He reached up the same way he did and she stared down as he played with her loose hair. Her heart was swelling as he did. The grey eyes were transfixed on her.

She wanted it. She wanted him. She wanted every part of him. A familiar movement overcame her as she reached to sooth his frown. Running her thumb off his small brow.

Grey eyes drooped closed just as they had then. A thunder of footfall had her looking up, instinctively protecting her baby from them.

"I'm going out!" She recognised that voice. Something overcame her then.

"No, you're not."

"What?" Dark hair and drawn brows with far too much eyeliner under his eyes came into view as he rounded the bottom of the stairs.

"I said no."

"I'm fine!"

"I don't care," Agatha huffed. Right, it was coming back to her now. He had fallen running from the cops after being caught with the boyfriend. Impaled himself on some glass. "You are staying here, not only because you are still recovering but because you're so grounded."

"Ugh, you used to be the cool one!"

"Sorry to disappoint," Agatha snapped as he spun on his heel in the most dramatic teenly fashion she hadn't seen in a long time. She watched him stalk back up the stairs as she looked back down at her youngest son with a smile and rocked him gently back and forth in time to a familiar clock. His dimpled cheeks smiling back up at her. He was such a good baby.

She could remember the discussions now, as the memories became clearer. Sitting with her wife as they discussed expanding their family. She was a doctor after all, she knew more about these processes than Agatha. She often described the line she walked between life and death. The way she could give or take if she truly wanted too. She had wanted to give life. Agatha had been feeling empty ever since Billy had turned sixteen. They had worked tirelessly until Agatha fell pregnant and Nicholas was born nine months later. All screams and flailing limbs. But they had survived it all. Happy and content. That was what she had wanted for them.

She felt her heart swell as she looked down at the baby in her arms. Now fast asleep. His little face is peaceful in his sleep. Standing with him cradled in her arms, she moved to the plush chair in the corner and settled.

A familiar hum falling from her lips.

Down, down, down the road,

Down the witches' road

Down, down, down the road

Down the witches' road

Down, down, down the road

Down the witches' road.

Agatha paid no mind to the ticking clock in the corner of the room. This was the life she had always wanted and there was nothing else she could imagine.

Chapter 1, 2...

[rootspiral]

Agatha All Along deep dive: episode 4 part 4

(Wandavision entries: [1][2][3])

(AAA entries: ep1 [1][2][3][4] ep2 [1][2][3][4] ep3 [1][2][3] ep4 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][+1] ep5 [1][2][3][4][5] ep6 [1][2][3] ep7 [1][2][3][4][5][6] ep8 [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] ep9 [1][2])

agatha once again protecting billy with her whole body.

"I didn't think it was real! I thought it was me, that it's my fault that I can't keep a job, that everything I touch turns to shit! That I couldn't save her!"

The poison drips through (yes I love Succession). Generational curse, generational trauma. The pain of who knows how many centuries of parents and grandparents and great-grandparents times a thousand. It's like a boulder that you're carrying around on your shoulders, and you can't see it and you can't put a name to it, how could you? How can you possibly know why your mother drank herself stupid, why your grandmother abused her children? You were born yesterday and drank all that poison without knowing what it was, you let it take it over and you walk around spreading it to the world.

And amidst all the pain, alice only ever chose to blame and hurt herself and she was always gentle to others. her biggest regret is not having been able to save her mom! you know why alice never turned into a villain like agatha? because her mom loved her. as simple and as that. lorna was so ill-equipped to save alice, she didn't know what she was up against, she was in a world of pain herself. and she went above and beyond to show her child how infinitely precious and loved she was.

oh wow, I usually say I'm crying as a figure of speech, but I am crying for real thinking about this.

lilia who has lived so long and experienced her big share of suffering, knowing all too well what alice is going through. there's so much compassion in her voice

jen stubbornly refusing to care about anything but her own pain, which is actually a very human way to respond to trauma? it's like she's at a crossroads and it's up to her to choose whether she goes back to being the force of good she used to be, or whether she goes down agatha's same path. I say it's up to her because it ultimately is, but she was so lucky finding this coven and community at such a crucial moment. agatha didn't have any of it.

no! don't apologize, you beautiful, generous soul! the sense of guilt and inferiority complex is real

agatha's face when billy is attacked

she starts running toward him even before alice

but when she gets there she freezes and lets alice go check on him

when she sees he's fine, she sighs and collapses against the door, clutching her chest.

lilia is really starting to get attached to everyone, and throughout her life love and loss have always been inherently linked. she already knows she's going to lose them.

okay jen refusing to leave the circle is still funny, I'll give her that

through all this rio has been watching and studying agatha, she always does. she knows that her diabolically smart wife loves to be in charge and come up with plans. she's being encouraging!

look at how small alice is! she's been helping and consoling billy just a moment ago, despite being miserable herself.

first of all, that's hilarious, so jot that down. second of all, you know agatha is so relieved she has to put on a show instead of doing something icky like, idk, sitting in a circle and talking about their feelings. and look at rio at the drums, she's already put all the clues together as well

oooh, she's doing the thing! she's detectiving! agatha harkness ladies and gentlemen, her hobbies are women, murder and puzzles.

and who gives her the solution? who has had millennia to study and commiserate human love and grief? she says it and she looks at agatha so pointedly.

The song that's so irrevocably linked to Nicky's memory, the song that she's been desecrating and using as a means to kill. A mother took it and poured all her love into it and made it pure again. Agatha has to live with that now, and you know that's going to take root inside her and affect her no matter what

this whole performance is patti going I might be singing backup again but watch me be a total diva about it

I LOVE YOU PATTI LUPONE

you'd think that alice should sing lead vocals here, seeing as it's her trial and her mom's song and all. WELL THINK AGAIN

the massive ego agatha has, honestly. you gotta respect that.

the feeling when you are the only normal person in a group of total hooligans. did I already say how gorgeous sasheer looks in that outfit? no I didn't. you are an apparition, sasheer.

but I want the song to have its own separate entry so hold on tight, brb

go to episode 4 part 5

[consulting-ghosts]

Soo I saw this stills.

We know that Agatha and Jen returned to Westview. Combined with other information it left me really excited and I need to share this.

Read if you want because there will be possible spoilers for the end. 

People die all the time in marvel. It's so overrated. So what if for a change no one does?  Except for Salem Seven, I hope, because they're fuckers and they deserve it. 

On IMDb Jen, Alice and Lilia are all credited that they’ll be in 8 episodes. Which gives me hope. I still think they'll get back to Westview probably at the end of ep 8 and that would leave Agatha and Billy for her trial about Nicholas I believe, like they showed us in promotional photos.

Also Sharon, like mamy people hoped, would be back, because she's supposed to be in 4 eps and she was in 2. 

I still don't know how Rio comments about bodies piling up will be put into this, but I’ll have my hopes. 

I always kind of think that Agatha and maybe Billy together, will bring them back at the end or we will be shown in the last ep, that when they ‘die’ on the road, they actually get back to Westview. 

So, either way I always expected them to be ok at the end. 

Will they reunite them, I'm not sure. It depends if they plan to bring Agatha back in the Vision show. I mean she was in both parts of the trilogy so it makes sense she would be here also. 

We will have to wait and see.

[mswyrr]

They presented the possibility of older women--who were repeatedly described as "covenless witches" in a story that also repeatedly told us a witch needs a coven--finding community again and a new reason to live in each other and their own power and then "subverted our expectations" with these women dying to serve a male character's story.

That was the point of their stories. Him.

It isn't common for older women in US pop culture to get depicted as people who are capable of rebirth. Of lives, desires, hopes and dreams that matter beyond solely being a mother. It rarely happens, and it didn't happen here.

It's rare for stories to deal metaphorically with real things - like women who get clean or make positive change in their 40s or 50s. Women who find each other and aren't alone and "forgotten" anymore. These things happen -- yes, sisterhood is sometimes a lie and sometimes "people never change." Sure, those things happen. But sometimes sisterhood isn't a lie; sometimes people make change in their lives.

You don't see these stories when they're women though, especially not older women, especially not gay women.

I'm glad for Jen. She doesn't have a community, though. A witch needs a coven they told us, over and over again. They showed us them getting one small taste of the joy they could share together, in their scene of flight. But that was just for Billy too. And now everyone else is dead. To serve the male character's journey, give him some angst.

Agatha is forever spiritually dead--not experiencing any kind of emotional breakthrough or change--because she's not the lead, so she's static so she can serve as a device within the true lead's journey.

She can't even be allowed the growth I pictured as the worst case scenario - where she dies for *the coven*--so they can live and have community and spiritual rebirth together--and makes enough peace to go with Rio. She doesn't even get that much, to get to have a real death that matters and has a sense of completion to it, where we can imagine her reunited with her child and/or at peace with Rio. She can't have that because she has to be Billy's amusing sidekick, his Jarvis, his moral warning lesson about his powers and the witches he got killed and his angst. Because his story matters and theirs didn't.

I was talking to a friend the other day about how love stories often have a "point of symbolic death, when all hope seems lost" (concept from Pamela Regis's study of romance novel structure) and with mf couples they get to rise again from that, into rebirth, into new life. Ff canon couples in stories often, due to a bunch of reasons, aren't allowed that narrative power. They remain trapped in tragedy and despair. I thought surely Agatha herself though, as the lead character, would get to have some kind of change or rebirth as part of a community of women, given that her core wound is betrayal by community -- but she, as a character, doesn't get to go into the symbolic underworld and change and be reborn, because she was never the lead character to begin with.

Sapphic love remains broken once it breaks, the "point of symbolic death" is literal death or a shattering end, there is no rebirth. We, I guess, lack the symbolic potency to come back, in the eyes of the world? We are not generative. "Which one's the man?" "How do they even have sex?" "Your marriage isn't real because you can't make babies." (Kudos for subverting that one, though, show! Except... a child born of women, without a man, cannot live a full life I guess?) And specifically, as a 30something queer woman, people who call my wife, after I've described her as my wife, my "girlfriend" and are shocked by how long we've been together. That we're grown women and our commitment is right down to the bone, that it has blood in its veins. We are not little girls playing dress up. But that is how a ton of nice people see us; we exist but we are spiritually empty, lacking potency. And the stories reflect that. That energy, that core belief that we are the juvenile, non-generative form of love and relationships. And this woman too, she remains in a kind of eternal spiritual death.

That's why people are mentioning the Hayes Code, they're feeling how that aligns with larger cultural prejudice against us and our humanity and capacity to have the kind of power of living and loving that is ascribed to mf love and that more (though not always, misogyny is a hell of a thing) straight women get in stories.

The idea that it's GOOD for a story to do this, because "sometimes sisterhood is a lie" and "sometimes people don't change" ignores that context of who precisely this narrative "subversion," this spiritual aridity is given to. And who gets to live and grow and be reborn and strive and learn and become in stories, to be allowed to connect with the transformative potential inside themselves and each other.

The show did give us a lot -- I think it's important to recognize that. The canon ff love; I would have never expected that. The canon kiss. They put a lot into that and I honor that. This wasn't a classic "bury your gays" and I'm not mad at them. They did their best. A lot of the issues I have are probably due to the problems of the mcu overall and how static it is. But the deeper themes are also just incredibly disappointing to me, and I wanted to outline why.

It's entirely possible to be disappointed but appreciate context and not be unkind to creatives who did their best within overall industry/cultural limitations, which is where I am at and what I mean with this.

[a-couple-of-notes]

Many people have already talked about the things that feel off-kilter in this episode--the lack of moons on the door, the aspect ratio not changing, the real quick turnaround from Jen--and I tend to agree. I think there's a good chance this ends up not being what it seems (and Alice hopefully comes back, I love her).

BUT I'm going to operate under the assumption that this was real until proven otherwise. In which case, this was by far the weakest-paced episode, on a macro- and micro-level, but I can sorta see where they're going with it.

Alice tied up her main story last week. I still think they could have found a good narrative past that--what's her identity beyond her mother? She could have leaned into the parallels with Teen, coming into her witchhood. However, in a 9-episode series, I can understand wanting to clear space coming over the halfway mark. So they kill her. Okay, that's a way to do it.

We saw in episode 4 that the coven is capable of true camaraderie and grace toward each other; I can understand the structural instinct to immediately juxtapose that against the selfishness and tension they also carry. Jen's turn was a bit fast, but not totally out of the realm for her character. I don't think she was ever advocating for the coven to kill Agatha (that was Rio), but she has always pointed them toward the most logical, most expeditious solution, with a healthy dose of self-preservation to boot. She shoves everyone out of the way to go down the oven escape route in Ep. 3, she sticks inside the protection circle in Ep. 4, she's always pointing out Agatha and Rio's weird shit. I buy at least the concept that her logical nature, survival instincts, and long-established disdain for Agatha would combine into some version of the attitude we see in Ep. 5.

Billy/Teen could go either way. They've certainly laid the groundwork for the reveal of his identity. His actions are...questionable, but again not out of the realm of possibility for his characterization. Despite what Agatha (seems to?) imply about his manipulations, the episode shows he lashes out after Agatha kills Alice. Not only that, but all the other witches (not just Agatha) move on like nothing happened. Of course he would be angry with all of them! The outburst is emotional, not calculated. I think this was one of the smarter choices in the episode; we've seen that relationship grow in small but consistent ways since Ep. 3. And it lends Alice's death a lot more narrative weight to have a character--y'know, actually care about and change because of it. Sorry, Sharon. (Sidenote: Personally, I'm questioning the song choice at the end credits--like, I get it, big reveal, Wanda Maximoff crown, but the tone and lyrics undermine how much Teen's actions are driven by his friendship with Alice/grief over her death. I don't think sowing doubt over whether he was the villain all along is worth compromising that.)

This is a wild swing of an episode that I don't quite know lands for me, but it's also the halfway point of the show. Maybe none of this is real and all the off-kilter stuff is setting up for something smarter. But if it is real--If they wanted to raise the stakes and shift the tone--this would be the time to do it. (Although I mourn the version of this story where they continued with fun Halloween hijinks, reluctant found family, and toxic gay cosmic entity situationships.) There is a very good chance that the back half of the show justifies and contextualizes the choices in Ep. 5. But without having seen that yet, it's just whiplash.

[ennn]

Initial Agatha All Along Ep 5 Meta Thoughts

Holy FUCK. This episode did not go where I expected it to. Spoiler-y thoughts and theories below:

The Lies We Tell Ourselves

Now I know so many folks are gonna be arguing how awful or evil or deplorable Agatha is for killing Alice. Did she do it on purpose? Or was she not aware or have control as she claims?

On a rewatch (ow my heart) and I guess in Billy’s defense it does seem textually ambiguous. Enough time passes and Agatha seems aware enough of what was happening that you see her lean into the power siphoning — euphoria evident on her face.

And on rewatch, it’s also ambiguous if she had the ability to snap out of it when her son was mentioned or whether it stopped because Alice was fully drained in that moment.

Agatha being possessed means she didn’t initiate this exchange — but something happened in the moment. Was Agatha operating on pure instinct? Like an addict trying to come clean but just had their drug shot into their system? Did she even see Alice or just the power going into her? Did the hunger and euphoria just override her thoughts?

We simply don’t know enough about how Agatha’s ability works. What we do see is Agatha looking distraught after she snaps out of it. She looks taken aback by what she’s done.

Now we know Agatha lies. She lies even to herself sometimes. Agatha lies to survive, for power and to protect herself. She puts on a show when she’s afraid, as Rio points out (more on that in a bit).

Why I think Agatha did not want to kill Alice comes from the scene after, where you see Agatha alone. She’s shaken. She’s not happy about what she’s done and here there’s no audience to put on a mask for.

She definitely reads as sincere trying to defend herself to Billy, although there is the possibility that she is genuinely lying to herself as well, in that she could have chosen on some level to give in to that incredible rush of power, everything else — including herself — be damned. Definitely not the first time we’ve seen the “magic as a drug” analogy.

My Shipper Heart

Okay so we got some delicious food this ep. Agatha and Rio giving each other their brooms all too easily, despite the awkward looks. Agatha flying free and looking at Rio like she’s her North Star, like she’s the one she wants to share this with.

And yes while Rio may seem eager to slit Agatha’s throat (who knows how their no-killing rule works!), she’s also the one who truly understands Agatha at this point.

I’ve mentioned this before but Rio’s arguably the most truthful one of this group. She’s mercurial but she’s honest about who she is and what she wants. And she’s been with Agatha enough to shed light on her truth.

Rio’s the one pointing out whose trial this is, who sees Agatha doing dumb shit as her hiding her very real fear.

And notably we see Rio toss aside her casual detachment and raise her voice for the first time on the show. No. No way!

Power, Grief and Darkness

Look, Billy is going to be a Young Avenger or something so we know he’s gonna go on an arc for the remaining eps but what a juicy one it’ll be, because at least Agatha will be there with him. I’ve suspected he placed the sigil on himself for a while now but I have no idea how aware he is of everything that’s happening.

What’s interesting is how Agatha puts the villainous mask on right after Billy claims to be morally superior. Agatha’s bullshit detector pinged and she digs into that indignation, that anger for strength. Agatha doesn’t like being on the backfoot, certainly not when it comes to feelings like regret.

I see Billy as needing to confront and understand his own darkness, and in doing so understand Agatha’s darkness. Things aren’t so black and white when you’re in pain, and angry at the world, and have the power to lash out.

Agatha is set up to be a mentor to Billy here in a way she couldn’t for Wanda, although the potential was clearly there.

It’s definitely going to be an interesting Road with them going forward, given how dark this ep got.