#and if noelle feels responsible for dess getting lost in the snow and then the same happens to berdly then

[mymarifae]

been thinking........about the idea that dess went missing in an awful snowstorm. because i mean, it makes sense? that one npc from sans's store tells us that noelle goes into a little dissociative state when she opens the freezer... bad memories associated with the cold, huh :(

but the thing that's bothering me endlessly is, like. if That's what happened to dess, we've got an awful little parallel to make !! noelle's ice magic in the dark world, snowgrave, berdly - see where this is going?

snowgrave isn't anything like iceshock. it's a massive snowstorm. we see what happens to berdly after the spell is cast. noelle can probably guess, but she didn't look at her own aftermath (thank god.) and besides, while the sprite doesn't appear as such to us, examining the ice yields the flavor text "it's hard to see into the ice."

to everyone else in cyber world, it's just like... berdly kinda vanished. and if that flavor text about a person being able to fit inside the closet in the computer lab is intended as a hint that berdly gets put in there, thus seemingly vanishing in the light world too. theeeennnnn

he also "went missing" in a snowstorm didn't he

[eudevie]

Counter Theory: Asgore is protecting Dess and is why he got thrown off the force.

Edit: 9-18-22: it was good, but in light of the DR event this theory feels debunked, since Dess' page is a 404. I feel it is not something as mundane as this, sadly.

Okay, I’m making this theory as an alternative to the ones that say “Asgore killed Dess” or “Asgore failed to find Dess” so he got kicked off the force because that makes no sense, the rest of the town would hate him along with Rudy. DR Asgore is a dumbass, but means well.

So, what we know of Mayor Holiday so far does not make her out to be a very nice person. Dialogue dump is here for anyone wondering: https://hushbugger.github.io/drdia/#

Quotes and analysis under the cut:

Rudy says this in regards to his wife:

   * (Look, Kris. Can't say much, but...)

   * (Noelle... might look like she has it all.)

   * (But her mother. Her mother, you know?)

   * (Love her, but... she's... tough on her.)

   * (Normally, I balance it all out.)

   * (But...)

   * (I can't... do much. When I'm not there.)

   * (But I'm gonna get better.)

   * (I have to.)  

Noelle when you ask her about the key:

   * ... huh? Why don't I ask my mom for the key?

   * I... I mean, um... I... you know,

   * She doesn't like it when I bother her when she's working.

She seems afraid of the thought of asking her mom.

Dog burglars, if this incident is referring to Mayor Holiday herself:

   * We're the infamous dog-burgulars, The Wet-Nose Bandits.

   * (We were getting ready to sneak into that big house over the holidays...)

   * When we were attacked from the shadows, by something MERCILESS!

   * (Fearing for our lives, we all ran right into Officer Undyne's warm, loving arms...)

   * And she suplexed us all into the snow with our tails hanging in the air.

   * (Now we're in jail, but at least we're alive...)

I mean, holy shit if you consider Undyne not scary in comparison...

Politics bear in regards to Mayor Holiday:

   * The mayor's charisma is about zero.

   * No, it's negative.

   * But she works hard and has a good track record, so she runs unopposed.

   * Thaaaaaat's politics.

   * Rarely.

talk to him again:

   * Not only does she act icy, she always keeps her office's AC on full blast.

   * That chill I feel... is...

   * Is this what politics feels like?  

This got me thinking about something strange Noelle does...

   * Sometimes the hoofed girl comes here,

   * Opens the freezer door...

   * Then stands in front of it, lost in thought.

   * Guess she really likes the cold. Or waffles.

Considering what we know about Mayor Holiday so far, this feels like a negative response, possibly to her mother’s office. Rudy even says this is a fear response for her:

   * She's a sweetheart, isn't she, Kris?

   * Smart, kind, sweet... couldn't ask for a better daughter.

   * I just wish she wasn't so... defenseless.

   * Scary movies, bugs, Santa Claus... everything scares her.

   * And when it happens, she freezes like a deer in headlights.  

Even though seeking out triggers like this seems weird, Noelle will seek things she deems scary out sometimes , like having a crush on Susie, or clicking on stuff like “creepy game glitch compilations!” or “Hot Female Santas In Your Area!”, but she also has linked being scared...to being cared for. Maybe it also reminds her of Dess?

   * Gosh, remember that night we explored the forest behind the graveyard?

   * Ha, I know we never found anything interesting back there...

   * I mostly remember... Crying because I was scared.

   * But for some reason I feel... nostalgic thinking about it.

   * Dess wiping away my tears with Azzy's jacket...

   * With warm sleeves that smelled like cinnamon.

   * I guess I didn't mind being scared if it meant...

   * Someone would comfort me.

And on the Ferris wheel with Susie:

   Noelle:* Well, um, maybe, I'm a little scared, but... I...

   Noelle:* To be honest, I... I actually like... scary things.

   Susie:* ... what do you mean?

   Noelle:* When we were little, me and my sister would stay up...

   Noelle:* And go past our bedtime watching horror movies.

   Noelle:* At first I cried, but now... it's like... watching them...

   Noelle:* Makes me feel... comforted...?

But there is still the fact that she is scared of her mother. After all, it’s people that are scary:

   Noelle:* It's scary, but I can just turn it off, right?

   Noelle:* Now it's mostly... people, that are scary. Haha.

   Susie:* You can just say you mean me.

   Noelle:* Haha... umm... well... I guess y-you too, but...

   Noelle:* But that's... what's... NICE about you, y'know?

   Susie:* Nice!? The hell does that mean???

   Noelle:* You're the... good kind of scary.

   Noelle:* You aren't afraid to... break the rules, y'know?  

Maybe she feels someone scarier then her mother, someone who would not be afraid to stand up to her, can protect her like Dess and her Dad used to?

In regards to the “Queen is a representation of Noelle’s Mother” fantheory, I think it is partially true. I think Queen was a bit of wish fulfillment for Noelle. While Queen is controlling, she genuinely tries to make Noelle happy in her own way, and actually listens when Noelle stands up for herself. Mayor Holiday is described as “Icy”... Although robot-like, Queen is a fun wine mom, and while some stuff she does would be considered evil... “I'm Just A Computer LMAO I Don't Know Everything  “ She’s a computer, she is trying Her Best.

I’d imagine having a controlling parent realize they were wrong, and actually acknowledge it AND MEAN IT, would be very cathartic. I know this bit made me fucking cry:

   * ... Noelle...

   * Perhaps My Computations Were

   * Miscalibrated

   * Noelle

   * Disregard... Me... And...

   * With Your Own Power

   * Choose The World... That Makes You Happy  

(Also, If we’re going off the “King and Queen are Susie and Noelle’s parents” fantheory, then the wish fulfillment of having a friend as a young child (projecting onto Lancer, perhaps?), and someone to kick their dad’s ass, could still fit Susie.)

��Now wait E, How does this relate to Asgore protecting Dess?”

Well... Noelle talks about Dess as if she is still alive. We can infer to this as Dess going missing, not dead.

But what if she isn’t truly missing? If a missing person who ISN’T a minor is found by police, and DOES NOT WANT anyone to know their location, all the police have to do is say they are found and not tell the person who reported the person missing their location. Rudy and Asgore are very good friends, and Rudy has probably told Asgore how his wife is with the kids. I think they are close enough that they consider each other’s kids as their niblings in a way. Rudy even has a nickname for Kris!

With Mayor Holiday being controlling and cold, and Dess isn’t one to take stuff lying down from what Noelle tells of her:

   * Gosh, you're lucky Dess isn't here!

   * Otherwise YOU'D be facedown in a mousepile!

.

   * Wait! You're teasing me, aren't you, Kris?

   * L-like when you told me ICE-E was real and eats kids...

   * So Dess smacked you with a wiffle bat 'til you stopped lying.  

I can see Dess GTFOing as soon as she turned of age. Maybe even working on a way to get Noelle out.

Mayor Holiday may not like that she no longer has control over her eldest daughter. Since she is the mayor, and also very intimidating, she could have contacts harass Dess to “get her back in line.”

So may be none too pleased when Asgore REFUSES to tell her were Dess went, or refuses to search for her. (Maybe Dess even asked him before she left to NOT tell her mom or look for her. Asgore would be like an uncle to her, so would want to protect her.)

The Divorce:

Toriel may have felt that Mayor Holiday and Rudy have a RIGHT to know were their kid is. Asgore may have tried to tell Toriel that Mayor Holiday is not that great of a parent or overly strict and controlling, or Dess does not want to be found, but Toriel is a parent who flipped her shit over Asriel kissing Catty, so may not understand how bad Mayor Holiday actually is in regards to being a strict parent since she may consider herself one.

Toriel and Asgore’s marriage was on the rocks already for some reason (I have a feeling it was due to Asgore being Irresponsible with finances, not through cheating or anything like that. Like I said, Asgore is a well meaning dumbass. see:”No rent received. Again. Stop giving away flowers. Start Selling Them.”) and this would have been the final straw.

Alphys may even be hinting to this:

   * Kris, it's no secret the, er, police in this town are...

   * Err... how do I put this... Just... um...

   * Eye candy, I guess?

   * W-wait, th-that came out wrong!

   * I mean they're s-symbolic! They barely do anything!

   * It's because of the mayor, there... there...

   * There isn't any crime.

   * Makes me wonder if she even needs the police...

   * Or if they're just... g... getting in her way?

   * ... eheh sorry. I'm just saying what you already know.

   * After all, she's...

   * Your neighbor, right?  

Noelle, being likely to bend to her mother’s will if she asked, would have to be kept out of the loop or out of contact in case Mayor Holiday tries to get to Dess through Noelle. So kept googling for her anyway, to see if anything new is happening with her sister.

I know I waffled a bit on this theory, but what are y’alls thoughts?

[reverssentiment]

Fragile Peace AU

Continuing a train of thought from my mainblog, concerning an AU wherein Kris falls into the Dark World at an early age and can’t (then won’t) leave:

The Toy World reflects Susie’s (and, to some extent, Kris’s) understanding of school, as a social minefield of courtly politics and genteel sniping over tea. Everyone is welcome in the Card Castle at first, but “misbehaving” can get you banished to the Field of Hopes and Dreams, past an impenetrable sea of Ponmen and King Rounds populating the Great Board, and there’s enough prejudice baked into the Dark World by Susie’s own feelings of Light World alienation that keeping her around is a constant tightrope walk.

Having been “tamed” by Noelle, Susie doesn’t auto-attack, and can be used to spare enemies, use items, etc. That said, most of her Act options aren’t particularly effective, and getting hit or failing an Act in an embarrassing way can make her too upset to do anything but Fight, in which case Noelle has to use the Act *Rein In to calm her down. This works up until the fight with Seam, who directly calls Susie Noelle’s little pet, leashed and yoked to her will. *Rein In loses all effectiveness over the course of the battle, which makes a pacifist victory over them much harder; the fight ends with Susie running away to be a big awful beast all on her own.

(Seam isn’t in existential torment in this world, which makes them much more of a dick.)

This is reflective of a growing, unhealthy dynamic between this AU’s Noelle and Susie — Susie feels like Noelle’s charity case, an abused dog she’s rehabilitating, and chafes against that relationship even though she thinks she should just be grateful anyone wants to be he friend at all; Noelle doesn’t know how to stand up for Susie to her friends, and since she never lost Dess (and has a buffer in dealing with Mayor Holiday), she’s not quite so admiring of/driven to emulate Susie’s take-no-shit attitude, so Susie gets less validation out of the relationship.

Ultimately, the remedy here is Lancer, the exiled former prince of the Card Kingdom, who was thrown away like yesterday’s trash sent to guard the Empty Town where the Grand Fountain sleeps when Kris arrived and swore service to the Darkners. It’s clear to Susie that he admires her for her, and not just as someone it’s his responsibility to fix/tame/civilize. And Noelle does eventually figure out what she’s been doing wrong, and stand up for Susie to the four Card Kings, particularly the dissident Spade King.

Noelle doesn’t have the same hangups around the cold; IceShock is replaced by SnowBurst, a blast of cold and fluffy snow that startles enemies and reduces their accuracy, and she carries a bow (made from a protractor) rather than a ring.

Susie, on the other hand, has more hangups around violence. Her axes are replaced by hammers and mauls, theoretically less dangerous, but with hidden spikes that can be released or retracted with a flick of the wrist. Rude Buster is harder to use, but its cost drops precipitously when she’s pissed off by failing to Act or getting hit too often. I’m also tempted to make it a breath attack, rather than a weapon — using it makes her feel more like a big, out-of-place monster.

Lancer is a support caster who picks up the pacification magic Noelle drops; he’s a lonely prince, like Ralsei, though he expresses it through acting out and a desperate need for attention, even when it’s negative. He hides his face to avoid showing how similar he looks to Spade King, to whom (he has dimly sensed) he is an embarrassment. He hates Kris for being his dad’s Greater Child.

Dess is still here! She’s very much not convinced of the official narrative about Kris — that they just ran away — and has wound up something of a conspiracy theorist, with a little nest of radios, corkboards and memorabilia pointing to the existence of Dark Worlds, and a growing suspicion of town authorities who surely have to know something. In the Dark World, her outfit is a Stranger Things-style triumphant Joyce Byers-type look, with a trenchcoat, briefcase and pockets overflowing with writing paper. Her magic is almost exclusively offensive, ball lightning and exploding stars. The girl has some aggression to work off — what can I say?

When they forsook the Light World, Kris removed their soul — the power that seals the Fountains, and symbol of their right to return to the Light World — and sealed it away in a puzzle box, which they entrusted to Ralsei. It’s given them chronic fatigue issues, which they work around as best they can using a combination of healing magic and not giving a shit about their own wellbeing.

(Why did Kris turn away from the light in the first place? Well... they’d just found out they were a human, and not a monster, and felt alienated from everyone they’d ever known; they were also isolated in a mysterious fantasy kingdom, surrounded by Darkners whose sense of betrayal was palpable, who themselves felt given up on, alienated, forsaken. It was as much a tactical move, to save themself from the Card Kingdom’s wrath, as it was a sincere sentiment and a desire to help those whom the world above gave up on.)

Ralsei has several objections, among them the Prophecy and the destruction of the world via Roaring, but his foremost loyalty is still to Kris — he guided them to the Toy World when they were seven and he was freshly awakened as a Darkner, and he’s assumed responsibility for them ever since. He splits the difference by giving Noelle the sealed soul, since she cares about Kris even after all these years, then continuing to fight against the Heroes on Kris’s side, hoping that they’ll come to see reason someday. It manifests in the Light World as a locked jewelry box. Better keep it locked!

Kris still doesn’t have magic, so they fight in tandem with a variety of Darkners — they’ve developed several dual techs with Ralsei, as well as the various Darkners that appear in each Dark World, and their allied Darkners can’t usually be spared without defeating/sparing Kris first. Such is their loyalty to their Knave of the Dark! Kris also carries a hidden sword-breaker in one sleeve, to use when the time is right, while the opponent is distracted by their Twisted Sword. 

Berdly is lonely and vulnerable to being isekaied. Catti’s a little overprotective of her friend Noelle, seeing as her last occultism friend disappeared quietly into the dark when they were kids.