#and i just want to kill things with a vampire worstie.
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asterdeer · 8 months ago
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look it took me a while to come round to astarion but there is something about the scene where he's just standing in the sun that kind of got me after i've spent the entirety of this spring, rain or shine, staring and reveling in the trees and the plants around me, like i haven't seen the color green in years because in a lot of ways i haven't, i had gone blind to my favorite color because it Didn't Matter, i hadn't realized how deep depression had been holding me under for years until march when the woods i've lived in since i was 8 have suddenly become brand new to me. and it's not like i'm dancing around joyously or anything, it's not made me some kind of positive upbeat optimism fairy, it's made me angry if i think about it too long, so i've just been trying not to think about it and just be, not try to be happy or optimistic or hopeful but just appreciative. and. idk. i think i kind of Get It. he's never going to be my very favorite but man. i would like to stand in the sun with him sometimes
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margridarnauds · 11 months ago
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20, 21, & 25?
20. part of canon you found tedious or boring
In BG3, it really is not controversial to say that Act 3 drags, but...it does. So many quests that I never intend to do again, so many artificially difficult boss battles, so many *fucking githyanki EVERYWHERE* ALL SAYING THINGS LIKE "IN VLAAKITH'S NAME" like shut UP, all building up to you grinding up the last few levels that you need to FINALLY. FINALLY. Get into the endgame. From the point I killed Orin onward, the game ran smoothly, for a very intense five hour or so finale, between killing Orin, destroying the Steel Watch, killing Gortash, and then going into the confrontation with the Elder Brain.
But getting up to that point...
Oh, boy.
FUCK the Cazador boss fight in particular. And the Viconia one. Fuck them, fuck them, fuck them.
21. part of canon you think is overhyped
I am once again on my hands and knees begging the BG3 fandom to remember that @_starion is not the main character of the game. There are many other Origin Characters in BG3 who are not @_starion. They are very good. Their stories touch on similar themes around bodily autonomy and abuse, he is *not* the only one. People are allowed to like him, they're allowed to see themselves in him, but you'd think he was the ONLY ONE when....no. (Also he is SO whittled down from his canon characterization -- like he was an actual cunt to my first Tav.)
25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing
Honestly, at this point, I see more people complaining about Ascended! @_starion fans than actual fans and it feels quite performative at this point. I don't know what the situation is like on Twitter or Tiktok -- I don't particularly *care* to find out, especially since he's probably....my least favorite of the Origin Characters, not my least favorite companion in general. And there's this slight air of sexism about the whole thing given that it's always "those stupid women don't know what they're doing/they're romanticizing vampires/they're sexualizing the poor 200 year old baby", like. Bruh. *Bruh*. If you don't play your cards right during that final confrontation, he will *leave your party if you don't ascend him*. I've considered doing it with a Tav that ascends him out of love, wanting to give him what he wants, only to realize they've created a monster, because THAT'S narratively compelling to me.
...I don't know, part of the joy of RPGs for me is that every player character is different. My first Tav had a very different relationship with him (worsties) than my second Tav (who is banging him) and my third Tav (who is platonic besties with him since she's a lesbian and considers him #OneOfTheGirls). I don't like applying a broad "if you do this, you are MORALLY WRONG" or "If you do this, you don't understand the character", since the character reactivity can be insane. In three main runs of BG3, each of my PCs had different dynamics with each of the companions because of the decisions they made and the conversations they had. I've unfollowed long-term mutuals over @_starion discourse because I just. Did not enjoy it. He's not a real sexual abuse survivor, he is pixels, and the way we react to him...it can be telling, yes, but any time you have a character who appeals to so many people with varying types of traumas, it's bound to get very heated, and a lot of people get hurt, and I'm not interested in seeing that.
...so I stay in Devil Daddy Land. Yaaaaaayyyyyy.
Since I've been very harsh on @_starion, I also see a lot of G@le fans say that he isn't REALLY mansplaining, if you think he's mansplaining or you think he's annoying, you're ableist and...with respect to my fellow autistic people in fandom, who see themselves in him.....I can both sympathize with him and ALSO remind them, very gently, that autistic men can be sexist. And it can remind autistic women who have had to smile through the sexism in favor of solidarity of real experiences they've had. I don't HATE him, I like him, I hated sacrificing him in my first run, I think the creators HAVE done him wrong, one day I do want to do a run romancing him....but I will say, as an autistic woman (?) in academia, that he does kind of remind me of sexist male colleagues I've had and the way that they tend to be catered to and respected and the way that they tend to put themselves over their female autistic colleagues. I'm not saying that the CHARACTER is sexist or that if you LIKE HIM you're sexist -- he has a LOT of really, really attractive qualities, but I'm saying that people also aren't inherently WRONG to interpret it as mansplaining, either. Again, player reactivity. For me, he is always one step away from telling me "now, are you SURE about that?" when I talk about a topic that I've spent the last year working on.
(Also a lot of G@le VS @_starion discourse boils down to "Why are people focusing on this white dude when they could be focusing on MY white dude?" Which is rich coming from the Raphael fan, I know, but I'm not trying to guilt or shame people into liking my meow meow...and in fact prefer the small group we have.)
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eastgaysian · 1 year ago
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it's a dak-wai post it got long. freeing it from the limbo of late night drafts
dak-wai's interest in remembering who they were diminishes pretty quickly after killing alfira, to a purely functional level of 'i need to understand what the hell is going on but there's definitely some things i Don't want to know.' after incidents such as 'i tried to remember how this cat knew me and when i came to the cat was dead' followed by Ah shit bhaal's my dad, by the time they're in baldur's gate they just don't want to know fucking anything anymore. and become a little fixated on killing orin and gortash as a way of also killing whoever they used to be, by getting rid of the last people who remember that person. guy who came back wrong but was already wrong in the first place.
i do think they're still pretty recognizable in behavior for people who knew them in the past. apart from the 'i'm not murdering in cold blood i'm doling out justice and enacting vengeance' thing. their interest in women who could/would kill them is the same lol
they've also always had an almost comical level of discomfort in social situations, which are easier to avoid when you're the head of a murder cult and less so when you're a wandering adventurer. they go into most conversations with the intent of getting out of them as soon as possible, speak softly in a very concise way, which combined with their general vibe ends up coming off intimidating (not always intentional). their first instinct is to view people, particularly themself, through the lens of usefulness. so they actually feel more comfortable around people who want something from them (preferably something violent which they view as the only thing they really can do). it takes a minute for them to get genuinely interested in getting to know/befriending other people and attempts to befriend them usually get met with one-word answers and uninterested looks.
they're fixated on self-control, ruthlessly efficient and methodical in accomplishing tasks, but work best when someone else tells them what to do. just with pre-game dak-wai this was usually applied to like, Dad says i gotta do vivisections and murder art while current dak-wai would eventually start gardening as a hobby to supplement their interest in alchemy, buy 20 books about soil acidity and planting seasons, and have a blood feud with weeds and garden pests. < still not totally sure what their canon ending is going to be actually.
so really, though i don't think this is something dak-wai would ever be comfortable thinking about and acknowledging themself, the Fundamental difference between them now and in the past is. getting overcome by The Urge and killing their foster parents -> having literally nothing and no one other than bhaal, orin, and associates who they are resigned to-resent-revere. the only thing they know is doing what their father wants, the only time they ever feel good/they allow themselves to feel good is when they're doing what their father wants, there was never any other option. it's what they were made for. vs getting a do-over in a different place and with different people where it becomes possible to establish their own identity and believe that they can choose who they are, have a value outside of immediate usefulness, and literally just Do other things than kill people. even if they're bad at those other things it's worth trying
also getting a wife (who is also learning how to find beauty in things and accept tenderness). and becoming worsties with gay ass vampire and forming kind of a tacit pact where either they both make each other worse or believe they can both be better
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polarnoid · 1 year ago
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MULTIMUSE MEME: Send a " ⭐ " and I will list muses I would be interested in throwing at yours, or potential muse combinations if you are also a multi.
okay im gonna try and like keep things we have talked about off the table for the meanwhile, there are some muses i am interested in i do not know much about ?? but hehhe we can definitely talk also sticking to the non private ones but like you know where to find me if you have any other ideas from this...
nancy & jeremy.
ok but of them are nosey like that, also nancy is obsessed with the truth and getting to the bottom of things. jeremy could join in on the fun, except nancy isn't fun but i think it would be an interesting dynamic to flesh out. and idk she could be judgey and a meanie but also she needs friends desperately...she's so alone dkjfhgkdjhg FRIENDS !! SHE WRITES STUFF DOWN HE COULD PUT A BOARD SOLVE MYSTERIES he could even get a gun and shoot things !!
alice & jeremy.
so alice is an experiment in her st verse, again suggesting the premise of teens get their own el sorta situation. also she is weird girl coded. possibly interesting to explore how they would get along and get to the bottom of what happened to her and who did it to her, while she tries to like live out a life. as normal as possible. she is a little weirdooo befriend her maybe.
the undertaker & laszlo.
monster hunter meet vampire, that would be really fun i think. laszlo is soooo him and taker is just a grumpy stoic guy, fun dynamic could happen here. possibly. taker is also like immortal so we could have fun with that i think possibly.
the undertaker & van helsing.
oh ??? monster hunter friends?? buddies?? can taker have buddies?? i dont know but they can join forces and um kick ass i suppose i suggest maybe ...
the pack & dean.
hey dean you wouldn't want to hunt these silly guys, these kids, they do kill people and are chill about it but also they are lil guys, also have no clue how werewolves like work, would probably not really know about hunters until like they meet one. so fun! they can be annoying hehe and dean can just endure it.
patrick & axel.
oh guys who are guys and up to no good, could be a cool friendship especially if axel is all like that. but patrick is chiller i think, i hope. they can have their fun, hehehe.
constantine & rowena.
this one just pop into my head. magic users !!! uhhh maybe working together maybe working against each other.
arnie & jeremy.
oh stoner cool guy, not the greatest influence. also arnie has like bad bad luck, so maybe that would be real funny. maybe even have them both be camp conselours or maybe they get involved in the middle of the st happenings without any previous knowledge as to how they found themselves there in the first place.
fiona & rowena.
hey hey that's her mother in law, and fiona is sooo lonely. and freaked out. god this could go really well or like really really bad ? idk they are family now and they have to deal with the fact. also fiona has no clue what's going on. and rowena has had a kid before, would she help fiona deal with being pregnant and then having a kid? i feel like again this would be really good or like possibly the worst thing i think.
castiel & rowena.
ok funny to me, i do not know how their dynamic plays out but i want them to interact...sue me??
richie & max.
ok alright mike's queer cousin, the worst little guy ! i think they might not get along but the two of them got involved with the upside down thing late into things happening. lot's of bickering trying to out sass each other that is real funny to me. also probably could help or be worse about the things that happen to max on a personal level.
vada & carol.
um worsties? friends who are mean to each other? mean bitches hehehe they can cause problems on purpose
lazarus & baron.
hey two TWO cult guys, maybe they can be rivals or enemies, something supernatural happenings in the background of things perchance...also idk its interesting to think about at least.
rosa & rowena.
ok starting out witch meets ancient witch...could be a mentoring of sorts, or maybe just like witches look out for other witches. we could do a whole lore thing for witches. but you know rosa is a goody two shoes sooo hmmmm.
ophelia & rowena.
oh well again recent witch meets ancient witch, but ophelia is more evil coded and her magic comes from a super ancient eldritch entity, again something fun to explore given how ophelia has definitely not reached her full potential. we could throw the rest of the house at rowena but i personally feel the cool interaction is with ophelia...
muireann & dean.
um just an insane thing here...fish out of water, eats men for fun...also she is pretty, maybe she just needs to be helped a little over here...definitely giving her a more modern verse with my own ideas for what mermaids would be in spn...definitely different from sirens.
constantine & dean.
funny to me. personally. did you know they based cas on constantine? yeah but constantine is just a dickhead, idk man two dickheads one is a hunter and the other one is a magic user. more people there to annoy dean yay !!
@shadowcovcn
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thehuntress-rose · 2 years ago
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Write your RPer Resolutions for 2023! (What are some goals for yourself as a writer? Improve descriptions? Plot with more members? Etc.
I really want to work on my consistency with replies. Outside of RP life has been chaotic for most of my time here and save for this past month, I saw a huge improvement since I moved! I just want to take the new year and continue with that momentum and be more involved in my plotting and reply schedule! 
I want to write more self paras! I feel like my characters go through so much behind the scenes that only ever come out in passing dialogue or HCs but I definitely want to be able to flesh out their experiences more via one shots. 
Cause an RP wide event, or at least be the driving force behind a big plot. I love to be involved in them, it brings me joy! But I want to have a character be the cause of something or just pioneer something that everyone can be a part of and craft a story that everyone can be excited to be a part of too. No ideas yet bestie ok.
Write at least one resolution, or “goal,” that you have as an RPer for your character(s)
Rose: Make more connections outside of her huntress connections. Normal friends! San: Same as above, BUT I also want her to start looking for her mom for realsies. This could def include a lot of people! Potentially a race to find her vs Gaston?? Kill the Beast! (Save the Wolf Goddess) Susan: Get her to a spot to do something I have wanted since I got her. She needs to find a better balance and acceptance for herself tho before she will let herself be happy. Maybe even tell someone that isn’t Jess about what she is! Dian: Get better about handling his vampirism. Relapse. Get Worse. Struggle. (Sorry bby) Being a vampire isn’t easy. Laurette: More magic stuff! I loved writing her farmer’s market thread with the fortune telling! Let her use her gift more! Amy: Do more with Foul! It is such a great concept and I feel like I don’t utilize it enough. Lilith: Begin her search for Merlin’s Objects to give to Belos! Also be that Cool, but Strict™ professor. Sophie: Pull her out of her shell and let people in more! She is still new so she has room to grow, but I’d like to see her make friends and potentially tell them what is going on with her.
Write at least one resolution IN CHARACTER for your characters. What do THEY want to accomplish or change in the New Year?
Rose: Visit Henry more often. Bury the Huntsgirl. Start her soft epilogue. San: Branch out more, humans aren’t so bad. Find her mother. Susan: Follow through with her campaign promises of making Swynlake safer for everyone. Help Magicks feel safer, no matter their kind. Dian: Get back to normal. Earn his family’s forgiveness. Laurette: Get passing grades, avoid drama! Maybefindaboyfriendtoookaybye. Amy: Find her fortune, hit some listener goals for Foul! Lilith: Gather Merlin’s Objects. Get her former protege back in line so that she doesn’t bring shame upon her good name. Sophie: Break her curse and go back home? Find true love?? 
List one or more characters you have never interacted with that you would like to do so
CLAYTON: I know you have a thing with Isa rn, but I will be ur wife pls
Genevieve: She’s so cool, be worsties with Rose. I think they’d be neat
Drakken: believe it or not I have not done a thread with him, also know u are with Vixey rn but I’LL BE UR ENDGAME BBY
Talk a bit about your plotting style – what plots are you most drawn to? Do you prefer to come with a fully-formed idea and plot off that, or throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks?
I feel like I kinda suck at plotting lol. I tend to take a backseat and I really do like to fill plot calls when I see them and I feel like I have something applicable. And people tend to do the same for me! BUT! I would say I am a throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks until we can sus out the vibes of a pairing. Then I just love vibing. One of my resolutions was to get better with doing bigger plots and maybe big plots aren’t the meat of the RP, but I feel like my best characterization writing comes from the ripples of those waves. I don’t feel like I am that forward with plotting like “hey I want x, y, and z to happen! Let’s use those as anchor points for the thread” but I WANT TO BE. New year, New Kit. I will only get better and more unhinged from here folks. 
But as for plots I am drawn to, I wanna say I love a plethora. I love larger ones with lots of moving pieces, I just really like to be a player in a long game okay?!?! Like the shark week plot, the knights in elfhame, the fall of the order, Dian’s death at the Gala. Love big dramatic plotlines that make the town talk. But I also love messy relationships like with Tom and Rose and Laurette and Phineas. I think for realism, more people should break up. I love a good doomed relationship. It’s who I am.
Talk a bit about character relationships – what relationship are you most drawn to? How do you prefer to approach shipping (if at all!)? What, specifically, are you looking for right now for your character relationships? 
I love love love characters who bond over shared experiences. Whether it be a trauma or a shared affliction, I just love bonds forged by understanding. Because we all seek to be understood in some way or another and I feel like those relationships tend to last the longest. I am drawn to families and friends who my characters can really bloom around and vice versa! I love a good ship, but I think most of mine have either been plotted out via “hey I want this vibe and for this long with this ending” or purely vibes. Sometimes characters are just meant to be organically and it feels so satisfying to let them have that!! But don’t get me wrong, I like to plan a terrible end lol.
As for relationships I am seeking now, I’d love for San to dip her toes into a human emotion she hasn’t felt before for a human (love) I just think it would be a beautiful and natural part of er character growth to have her find a human that she can feel as protective and soft over as she does her pack. I would love to see Claudette pop in, just to fill the current separation Laurette feels from Paulette since being in school. A sister closer in age might have a bit more understanding than the eldest in her eyes! And maybe some coworkers for Rose (work at Interpride!!) because she needs some work hijinks! 
Talk about your dash reply style and your Discord reply style! (And if applicable, also your doc reply style). What do you like about each type of interaction? What is something you feel is difficult? 
Dash: I feel like I can be so inconsistent with my dash replies. I went from literally not tracking them at all and digging through my reblogs to find threads when I started to actually tracking them in an excel sheet. So we are making progress. I might not have them all up to date, but PROGRESS. And I am actively trying to be better with my dash consistency, especially in the new year :))
Docs: These can go two ways for me; we can bang em out super fast or I will close the tab and forget to do it for days. (I hate having 30 tabs open, it stresses me out). But that being said, I do really like them because they allow you to keep a plot secret until you are ready to drop all of it. And it’s so much easier for 3 or more muns to collaborate because I feel like 3 way threads can get so messy and cluttered on the dash! 
Discord: I love discord threads. I dunno why, but it feels like less pressure to have length or flowery prose (unless it’s an AU then I will go HARD for that shit). It’s quick and snappy and I think the event servers are always poppin and have great stuff happening in them. 
Plotting Exercise! Pick one of the resolutions/goals in #3 and plan a rough guideline to how you could accomplish it. Here’s an example.
SUSAN hears about BRUCE wanting to start a support group and chats with him about what he would like it to consist of, she suggests an AA type forum for Magicks because she has wanted to make a change for that community for a while. SUSAN talks to SIMBA about the AA aspects and how they work, and the BOARD about the arrangements while BRUCE fills out the petition (backed by SUSAN of course). 
SUSAN gives a speech at TOWN HALL about seeking community when you feel alone, how bonds are made with shared experiences and feelings, and how everyone deserves to feel that sense of community no matter who you are. She encourages Magicks to have trust in one another for this program to work. 
The petition passes, a meeting room is reserved after TOWN HALL hours for discretion, SUSAN asks BRUCE to be the point person for MA (Magicks Anonymous)! 
Step 5: Everyone prospers
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margridarnauds · 1 year ago
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9, 4 and 18 of the Tav's asks for your Kitrye!
Thanks!
9. If they had to be put in a "get along shirt" with a companion, who would it be?
For...I want to say about 4/5 of her run, Kitrye fucking HATED Astarion. He was, hands down, her least favorite companion, her worstie, the guy who she was forced to bring along with her on missions for lockpicking purposes and then disapproved of everything she did. It got to the point where she would make decisions DELIBERATELY to piss him off more. "Oh, you don't LIKE IT when I free the gnomes from slavery? I'll even do it WITHOUT CHARGING THEM ANYTHING." "Oh :( Astarion's dead :( Let me run around a little before I resurrect him" Etc. etc. It began sometime around him making various racist comments in the first act, then with him rejecting her at the tiefling party (on the record, she was never interested in him -- he just rejected her off the bat and then she was furious at the presumption) that then ballooned into "I should be able to kill people because I had a sad life and if you disagree, you don't know what it's like to suffer" which...Kitrye....long-standing survivor of parental abuse...currently on the run from said parent...did not take well.
He is the reason that "Sorry About Your Parents" is on her character playlist. In order to get giffing material, I did romance "Astarion" in an AU, using mods to swap Astarion's character model with Raphael's, but for the first scene, Kitrye just looked...incredibly uncomfortable. Worst thing I've ever done to her, even beyond having her break her vow. Poor thing.
Anyway, when she went to confront Cazador, things had improved slightly, but she was still prepared to kill him rather than have him go along with the ritual -- she was NOT going to let an ascended vampire walk Faerûn. (And I wasn't going to reload my save if she did, I was willing to let it be whatever it was.) Only for him to redeem himself, save the other vampire spawn, and for her to break her oath. It was very, very bittersweet for her, and it made the lack of care about her breaking her oath/focusing on Astarion from the other companions even more heartbreaking, because it was a mixture of knowing she OUGHT to be happy for him and also being kind of like "I've been here since Day One doing this, I just lost my life's purpose, and I got barely a pat on the head or anyone expressing an ounce of sympathy, while Astarion can do the bare minimum of not being a dick and gets showered with praise, where's my respect?"
And it's funny because the vast majority of my other characters actually LOVE Astarion, so this is TRULY a Kitrye Thing. (Her daughter Anathematisma is actually currently sleeping with him, as of this point in her run.) (God help both of them.)
It did make for a very satisfying epilogue though, seeing Astarion settled and the two of them comfortable with one another. (It didn't matter, because of the way the epilogue is set up, but she actually did add Sebastian's letter to her inventory, just to remind herself that it was worth it.)
4. How do they sleep with their LI?
Kitrye is the little spoon, with him usually having his face buried in her neck. If he's in his cambion form, he tends to curl his tail around her in some way, especially around the legs, in a gesture that's simultaneously protective and possessive. When they were in Menzoberranzan together, she tended to get nightmares as a little present from Lolth, and, on those occasions, he got accustomed to wrapping his wings around her, both to shield her and also to not-so-politely remind Lolth that she was already spoken for. (Always with some pragmatic excuse because, after all, He Doesn't Actually Love Her, Love Is A Weakness, etc. etc. etc.) In his human form, he's more likely to have his arms wrapped around her waist. Given that he's essentially a living furnace, he's often quite literally too hot to handle in either form, and she has definitely woken up in a sweat because he was too close to her and that, combined with Avernus being itself, makes for a ridiculously smothering warmth, but she's also very protective of every bit of genuine intimacy that they have together, especially since Raphael's very selective about how often he's willing to demonstrate it. A couple of centuries or so, post-game, it's actually a stipulation in the contract that is Not NOT A Devilish Marriage Contract Between Them (over 500 pages and counting) that The Archdevil Raphael Is Obliged To Come to Bed No Later Than 2 AM. While he will be the first to try to find loopholes as a way to stay scheming in his office for longer into the early morning, he's equally protective of that time together in his own way, it isn't a one-sided thing, and he was actually the one to stay over first, much to her shock (of all the ways she'd pegged him, in various ways, shapes, and forms, she hadn't pegged the devil as the sort to stay after sex for a cuddle), but, when they're not in the bedroom, he tends to be incredibly reserved, especially early on when he was still navigating having Squishy Feelings at ALL, so it's a very important space for the two of them besides the obvious.
Sometimes, when infernal politics are getting to be too much, they change things up, with her letting him fall asleep on her lap, often while she strokes his hair or plays the lyre to soothe him a little. This applies to all of his forms, including, when things are VERY bad, his Ascended Fiend form.
18. What modern day TV show would they binge over the weekend? Do they get their LI to watch with them?
I think that there are two distinct stages in what Kitrye would be interested in. In her early character development, shows like Succession and Game of Thrones would be a little too real for her, but as she gets more cynical and calculating, I think they'd appeal. It's funny because I'm extremely critical of a lot of his stuff (and from what I've seen of how they adapted it), but I think that she would really like Mike Flanagan's Fall of the House of Usher -- horrible people plotting (just like home) and getting exactly what they deserve, a devilish character weaving her way in and out of the narrative...for Kitrye later in her character development, it's perfect.
In her earlier years, she's going to go for shows that emphasize hope and overcoming the odds -- and since she does love animals and has some skills in animal handling, it might be shows like, say, My Cat From Hell (which her companions have absolutely memed by putting Raphael's face over the image of the cat in the ad and Kitrye's face over Jackson's.) Kitrye has a taste for the high life and culture, so it wouldn't be anything TOO trashy, unfortunately.
Given that Kitrye has proficiency in History and Religion (she multi-classes as a cleric), I'm not sure whether she would ENJOY period dramas or nitpick them. (She decides to spend one evening watching the 2011 Jane Eyre and Crimson Peak and has to take a very, very long moment to look at her life, look at her choices.) If Raphael keeps his canon age, she would absolutely bring him along just for him to poke holes in the accuracy. For what it's worth, Raphael in any verse is much more keen to drag her to a theatre production -- he has a regular box reserved at several prominent opera houses after making a deal with the various owners.
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