#and i KNOW how annoying it is when people decide pretty vague dialogue lines are proof that character a is in love with character b

[yandere-daydreams]

jljffjkdjflksdjfkl he's so,,, it's giving 'emo kid pulling you aside at a party to tell you about how pointless life is and how sonic adventures two fucked him up etc'. he's literally two seconds away from hauling you up to that bell tower and going full hellfire on your ass. love to see it love to see it.

[nagisasstunningpersonality]

TINSITOGS, a retrospective (happy birthday)

(yes I’m like two days too late I know I’m sorry) 

Why hello followers and ass class fandom, nice to see you there. I’m sure MOST people know about this, but in case you don’t, hi. On AO3 I’m better known as livixbobbiex, writer of maybe one of the most infamous Assassination Classroom fics. 

Which I mean like, if you haven’t read it yet you totally should it’s fanlore at this point I promise- 

Shameless plug that I don’t need aside, I felt that, on its first birthday since actual completion, I just wanted to share some things about it. Some tit bits about writing it, fun facts, maybe even some author advice TM. I appreciate that it’ll be super annoying if I do that in the tags, though, so that’ll all be under the cut. If you don’t want to read the whole post, then no matter what, thanks for the support in general! 

I also want to take the opportunity to announce that I’ve reopened my discord, so if you want to talk about my fics with me (and others), you’re more than welcome to join! (the link is here) 

The origin story 

I’ve stated this many times, I think, but TINSITOGS was never supposed to be a serious story. Taking you back, quite a long time, it actually started in a facebook DM with a friend. We used to come up with “head canons” with each other, which were basically just very condensed fanfiction plots over a multitude of text messages. I believe I was trying to cheer her up, and I tried to come up with some kind of plot line. 

At the time, I was fairly fresh to the Ass Class fandom, and I was joking about how there were no teen pregnancy melodrama fanfictions. It wasn’t that I wanted one, I just thought it was strange for a school centric anime with a bunch of ships to NOT have one. And, back then, I only really cared about karmagisa. So I just decided ‘right it’s happening’. The reason I decided to make it ABO was due to ‘it making sense’. Fun fact: it was almost written as AFAB trans Nagisa, but I decided against it as I didn’t rate my ability to handle it well back then. Looking back on it, I’m glad I made that decision. 

Over around two months, writing out the plot of this story took over my life a little bit. I had no idea where I was going with it, but I was having so much fun with the drama that I decided that Karma and Nagisa shouldn’t get together soon at all, and I had a lot of fun teasing my friend with the ‘will they won’t they’. It was only when I got bored that I invented this intense drama plotline to finish it all off. 

That period of time was a lot of fun. And whilst that friendship didn’t end well, I still have a lot to thank her for. She chose Daichi’s name because I had no idea, and she wanted to annoy me because I didn’t like Haikyuu. When I couldn’t decide on his hair colour, the purple was her suggestion because ‘why logic?’ Daichi speaking Korean was because of how much she liked Kpop. She even helped me choose the title of the actual fic, so there’s a lot you can thank her for, honestly. 

After I finished that story, though, I couldn’t stop thinking about it. Whenever I daydreamed, I used to think about that damn Daichi Akabane, and how much I wanted to tell his story. I’d even come up with extra stuff to fill in a lot of the gaps, and developed his character in my mind. I decided that I was really desperate to write it down. Usually that worked when I had an idea I wanted to work through. 

I wrote the first chapter in late 2017, and then the next two as well. I just, kept going, and realised that I could go further still. TINSITOGS was never something that was supposed to be shared, but I decided I may as well. After all, that fated ‘teen pregnancy drama’ fic still didn’t exist, and I thought it would be funny to make it happen. 

Yes, as I’ve stated publicly a few times, TINSITOGS was a crack fic. If I wanted attention from it, it was infamy. We even joked about me cursing the fandom if it ever became the most popular fic (whoops?). What I wasn’t expecting was a bunch of people, in a fandom where at the time there were NO ongoing karmagisa fics and it was pretty dead, to really seem to enjoy it. It was enough to have me keep writing it, at least. I still don’t know at what point I actually started taking it seriously, but somehow I did, and the rest is history? 

The reception 

In my wildest dreams, I never thought that I would be the author of one of the most popular fics in the fandom. To this day, the amount of views TINSITOGS has is insanity to me. For the record, across all platforms it’s on today it has 238,000, which is literally a number I can’t even visualise anymore. Almost quarter of a MILLION. To this day on AO3, it’s the most viewed Ass Class fic that’s an ACTUAL ass class fic (the others are multi fandom compilations). So yeah, I achieved the original goal, I guess? 

Now you might be wondering, “omg the karmagisa fandom is fujoshi trash”. And, considering the origins, it is kind of funny. The thing is, though, TINSITOGS was written at incredibly good time. It was written when there were, essentially, very few long form Karma/Nagisa stories. If any other fics did get posted on occasion, they were usually just oneshots. I was also, at that point, writing very fast. A symptom of ADHD is becoming obsessively productive over certain things. Since I was able to get a 3k chapter out every few days/once a week, TINSITOGS was consistently bumped to the top of AO3′s default view. And some of those first few chapters were altered canon, and transcribing the canon dialogue didn’t take very long. The more views it got, the more people would read it out of sheer curiosity. 

I think it also helps that, at least after it started getting some positive feedback (which was honestly after the pre written chapters), I purposely tried to make it ‘not terrible’. I mean, I personally think the first chapter is pretty weak and if it wasn’t somewhat iconic to a lot of people I’d rewrite it. But in general, I purposely tried to make the world of ABO my own, to make it more accessible to those who don’t like that genre, and stay away from the inherently grosser stuff as much as possible. I genuinely do get comments about how I introduced people to the genre as a whole, still not sure if that’s a GOOD thing but hey, it happened. 

TINSITOGS turned into a lot more than just a joke. It turned into my favourite hobby. It turned into a research project (honestly, you would not believe the amount of mummy vlogs and legit scientific articles about child development I consumed). It turned into something that, at least I believe, was widely loved. 

Meaning 

I think it might be wrong to say that I don’t have AN idea of when I started to take the fic super seriously. For me, it was around the time someone commented something along the lines of saying my writing meant a lot to them, that they’d spent all night reading it and had been unable to put it down. 

Not to get too dark here, but I do have a past in writing a very long, somewhat popular fic (it’s still on my fanfic net profile if anyone’s interested, but I don’t recommend it). However, in the latter part of my teenage years, the depression struck. Writing was the love of my life, and I couldn’t bring myself to do it anymore. Maybe I’d be able to muster an idea or even a chapter at the best points of that, but I’d never completely finished any story. Starting to write again was a huge step in my recovery, and one of the reasons I convinced myself that life was worth it was being able to impact someone’s life somehow. Even to this day, I still remember the fics I read when I was, like, thirteen. How much I still remember them, and how much they meant to be at the time. I wanted to be that writer for someone else. To be honest, it was actually Yuri!!! On Ice that got me out of the super bad, but I still never wrote anything of real consequence. TINSITOGS was the first time in a long time I actually committed to something. 

And, to be completely honest, there were a lot of times I was tired of it, and wanted to just quit. But, the thing was, I felt like people depended on me in a way. I got so many comments that were just FILLED with support, telling me how much they looked forward to every update. It wasn’t just empty words, either, a lot of the times these comments would be super engaged with the actual writing. I can’t even describe just how much they meant to me, how much I would look forward to reading everyone’s opinions. And then discord happened, which was a lot of fun. 

TINSITOGS went a lot further than I ever thought it would. There were comments, discussions, fan art, fan FIC (which is honestly incredible to me). Someone even added it to TV Tropes, at one point. Not to mention the Cards Against Humanity deck and quiz It makes me so unbelievably happy that I could inspire that much creativity, but it’s a two way street. It was all of that which inspired me to write, too. 

Writing 

The only real goal I actually had was aiming for around 3000 words per chapter. I had a whole facebook log of plot points as planning, and I was mostly just trying to expand on them into prose. I honestly thought that, at its completion, the entire fic would be around 100k words, if that. Not, at one point, being literally the longest ass class fic on AO3. 

There are a lot of aspects that were directly adapted from the original messages, and I tried to stay faithful to it more so at first, even if I later removed some of the pure crack. But the style was also vaguely similar, with the story being told mostly from Nagisa’s perspective with swaps to Karma when it made sense. All the main plot beats, too, are pretty much identical. The plus to this was I was able to add a lot of really fun foreshadowing, and I feel like it’s a fun reread because of it. 

Honestly though, if there’s a demand to release those OG message logs, I will. Mostly because it’s kind of funny, and interesting to see. Isogai and Nagisa were engaged at one point, even. 

Obviously, it changed somewhat. 3000 was the minimum length, and the time to completion was whenever it felt right. One of my big concerns was about pacing, so it took a lot more fleshing out and maybe ‘filler’ content for some of the main arcs to work. 

There’s parts of TINSITOGS I don’t think aren’t written that well, and some that I’m still super proud of. I think you can definitely tell there’s a gradual shift in style, and I get a lot more comfortable with writing them as characters as it goes along. To be honest, my pride for the fic overall is what it represents. 

It is funny to think about the places it got written in, though. I started it when I worked at McDonalds with no life direction, then it went through my first year of university with me. It’s been written in at least four countries. Aeroplanes, night clubs, long haul buses, a train through the Japanese southern coastline. Even the start of covid. TINSITOGS managed to see a lot. I even turned a scene in (the boat scene during the India chapter with altered names) to my university as a legitimate assignment. 

There were also a few messages I wanted to achieve, once I realised I had the platform to put them across. One of them was, obviously, ‘use protection kids’. It was important to me that I didn’t glamorise it too much, and I think that came across. I also wanted to dispute some of the issues with ABO, and subvert the consent issues as much as I could. An arc I really ‘liked’ writing was how abuse doesn’t always look the same way, and that it can be a drawn out change in behaviour. How the most important part of ‘being a good parent’ isn’t perfection, but genuinely loving and doing the best you can for your kid. How love doesn’t solve everything, and effective communication can take a very long time to learn and build a functional relationship. I mean, there definitely was a lot I tried to put in, and you’re free to interpret it all how you want. But, I like to think some people learnt some of these things, at least. 

Daichi 

Honestly, Daichi developed almost of his own free will. I had a good idea of his appearance, and that he was smart. Writing him from birth until around nine years old (older if you read the sequel fic) pretty much allowed that fluidity. It was really fun to explore a nature vs nurture development, and let his own characteristics speak for themselves. 

He’ll always have a special place in my heart. 

This is the first image I ever made. When I was trying to figure out what Daichi looked like, I honestly just edited Karma’s hair (pretty well, actually? I’m impressed with my past skill). That’s where the ‘he looks just like Karma’ meme kind of came from. 

This was the first image I actually created of Daichi. I THINK it was on rinmaru games mega anime creator or something, but it’s literally not available on the internet anymore as far as I can tell, so I can’t double check. This was in the pre-piccrew days. His eyes are closed because they didn’t have the right tone of goldish/silver.  

His sister, Kaguya, didn’t even exist originally, even though I decided on that ending pretty early on. Actually, she was going to be called ‘Irina’ due to some hijinks. Initially, when Karma found out about Irina’s pregnancy, she was going to get super emotional and mad at him and basically force him to name his first born daughter after her. Karma agreed to shut her up, never intending to have another child, so when the surprise second child later came along they had to live with the pain. However, to be honest I just forgot to write in the actual scene that set it all up, and I decided against adding it anywhere else. The name Kaguya was a very last minute decision, and it was a chance for me to explore some ideas that didn’t fit with Daichi’s character. 

Interestingly too, Daichi and Nao were never intended to be a thing. I only decided that towards the VERY end. Even though the reason I named Nao that was because of a ship I had in a J Drama (Good Morning Call). It just kind of ended up happening because I won myself over with imagining the cute. 

The music 

I used to write with a lot of background music, though not all the time. Particularly towards the start, there was a lot that didn’t really make sense thematically, yet I would write to a lot. 

Here’s a link to the spotify playlist if you want it it’s basically all the ones I noted I’d listened to a lot. Not including the smut ones, though, I have a whole playlist for that. 

Some of the notable ones: 

Five String Serenade - the first scene I wrote of the entire fic, in Chapter 25 New Year Time where they fell asleep cuddling. 

Cosmic Love - when I wrote Nagisa’s love confession scene in hospital (I also wrote this pretty early on) 

Northern Downpour (though it was actually a cover by Emma Blackery) - The chapter after Daichi’s born (30) 

When The Party’s Over -  Confession Time Third Period, Chapter 69. I literally listened to this song on REPEAT when I planned and wrote the kind of ‘break up’ scene, and it’s one of the few parts that made me cry writing. 

Turning Page - I know I said no smut, but this song actually gave me the idea to have the “I love you” in chapter 108 be less on a whim and actually more built up. In the original plan, Karma really did just say it without thinking. I’m glad I changed that.  

Bury Me Low and Numb - pretty much all I listened to when writing the last few chapters, because Evil Nagisa core. So much so that Bury Me Low was in my top 2020 songs rewind. 

As for the title, there’s actually quite a funny story. I had no idea what to call the fic, and when that happens I usually just try and find some song lyrics. I really wanted to use something from ‘October’ by the Broken Bells. Not only because it’s my favourite song (has been for years), but thematically it really worked. The issue was, it worked as the WHOLE song, there were no individual lyrics that captured everything. And, if they did, they didn’t flow very well. And naming the fic ‘October’ would have been weird for a lot of reasons. There Is No Sweeter Innocence That Our Gentle Sin really was just plucked randomly, in a desperate search to find any snappy lyrics from any song that had some kind of meaning. After a bit of discussion, we settled that it kind of worked... if Daichi is innocent and they committed a sin or something. It also wasn’t the most obvious lyric from the song (Take Me To Church if anyone doesn’t know) so I just went with it. It works out, I think, because TINSITOGS turned out to be a pretty good acronym and pronounceable word in its own right. 

The merch  redbubble drama 

It’s a well known fact that I’m not very good at art. However, I decided to try pixel art because it seemed the easiest to not mess up. I made Karma and Nagisa, before deciding to also give Daichi a try. 

This, to this day, is the only good quality art of Daichi that I actually own. The only one I’m actually happy sharing and thinking it doesn’t look terrible. As much as I love people sending me fanart, it’s not ‘my property’, right. 

So, I was kind of joking about TINSITOGS having merchandise. At first I just made two funny quote things, and uploaded it to redbubble. I was never intending to actually make money from this, and I’d agreed to myself that if I did, I would just donate it to charity. I was joking with the quotes, but since I had this artwork I figured I may as well uploaded. Separately, there was also an image that had pixel Daichi next to pixel Nagisa and Karma (which I also created). 

Aside from showing up in a few people’s adverts across the internet, there was no real harm with this. In fact, I didn’t make money anyway. It was just... more the joke of it existing. I did, however, buy myself a Daichi phone case, which is one of my favourite possessions. 

The funny ‘drama’ comes in when they got taken down due to copywrite. Sure, the one with Nagisa and Karma, I understand. But the other three literally had no mention or anything to do with Assassination Classroom, aside from being from a fanfiction. So basically, someone who owns those rights claimed my OC as theirs. Which makes Daichi canon? Whatever the case, I found this hilarious don’t worry. 

How has TINSITOGS changed my life? 

This is quite a strange thing to think about. Because, in a lot of ways, it really hasn’t. As I’m sure a lot of people know, I don’t really consider myself to have any real ‘fame’, despite the impressive numbers. Whenever I tell people in my personal life, they seem to think I’m some sort of internet celebrity, but that’s never been the case for me. I mean, it’s hardly a cultural phenomenon. 

In a lot of ways, I’d much rather befriend someone than have them admire me. Possibly because being someone’s inspiration is kind of weird... I’m just an awkward duck who likes to write after all. I don’t mind it, though. I genuinely find it an honour, even if I don’t necessarily agree. I also want to take this time to say that if anyone ever wants to talk or message me, you’re more than free to do so. I’m usually super casual with people who do that, I promise. 

TINSITOGS was the first story I ever finished in the way I truly wanted to. Start to end, a full narrative. And it took a LOT. There were so many times I almost felt like quitting, or took super long breaks. For me, ADHD queen, actually finishing something was a huge deal. And I know I wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t owe it to everyone who read it, and myself, to see it through. You know like, if I were to die tomorrow, at least I’ve left something behind. 

In a lot of ways, it’s changed me for the better. It’s helped me develop my writing styles, and way of thinking. It encouraged me to become more active in the fandom, and develop some important friendships. I always feel like my Tumblr and Fanfiction ‘known’ factor is separate. I think most of my Tumblr following is more to do with my theories/Japanese context research if anything, for example, but I know I wouldn’t be so interested in that if TINSITOGS hadn’t lead me to deeply examine character and really look into analysing source material for clues. I also think there’s just... a lot of myself in it. 

I was 17 years old, when I first came up with the idea. I finished the story when I was 20. Now, at the time of writing, I’m 21. That time has seen some pretty significant changes - just in general life facts and my own personal human development. For me at least, a lot of that was pretty turbulent, and TINSITOGS stands as a time capsule for that, in a way. 

I know I gained a lot of confidence, and it affirmed to me that writing is what I love. Telling stories and sharing them is what I love. 

Conclusion

Do I think TINSITOGS is an outstanding piece of writing, or the best fic ever? No. I really don’t. It’s strange to say because I definitely spent a lot of time on it, but it’s not like I put my full unbridled efforts into the story. I don’t fully plan, use a beta, or even read through on my own. And that’s okay - that’s not what I write fanfiction for. Fanfiction is my place to have fun with characters and stories I like, without the pressures of having to stand on my own complete originality. Yes, I’m fully confident that I can write at a “higher quality”, if I really wanted to. I’m also aware that some authors put their full effort into their fics, and that’s just as valid! 

It feels odd to say this about my own writing, but I honestly think there’s just something in this story. It might not be written in the best prose ever, and the premise might be kind of dumb for a lot of people. But, I think, there’s some part of this fic that managed to grab people. Somehow, at some point, many readers get captured into the emotions and so drawn in that ‘they just have to finish it now!’ Again, I’m not sure myself how I actually achieved that. Of course, that won’t apply to everyone, but I do feel there’s some truth in it. And it makes me happy, to have caused that. 

If TINSITOGS is your favourite fic, or if you genuinely think it’s the best story you’ve read, then thank you. I really appreciate your support, and I’m happy to have been a part of your life, I guess. I know how much fanfics can mean to a person, and that’s why I’m not going to take it down, or edit it at all. And it’s fine too, if you loved the fic for a while and moved on -i t happens. Whatever the case, I’m very honoured to have been able to occupy a moment of your life. Or if you find this fic in 10 years time, even, I still wholly appreciate you. 

This story was incredibly important to me, and thank you for reading if it was ever important to you too. 

You may ask, what now? Well, this is only intended to be a detailed look back for whoever’s interested, and it’s likely the only one I’ll actually do, a year after completion. Of course, if you ever want to ask me anything or just discuss the story, you’re honestly good to contact me in whatever way I have available. 

I’m still writing my ongoing stories, of course, despite taking a small break due to the university work load. I fully intend to complete the stories I’ve already started to tell, at least. After that... I’m not sure if I’ll still write fanfiction. Don’t panic, this isn’t a ‘I’m quitting writing’ thing. I may, however, have bled the Karmagisa genre a bit too dry at that point. Who knows? I am pretty interested in writing something original for once, so maybe that’ll work out. 

For now, at least, thank you to anyone who read this fic. To anyone who commented, liked, or interacted with me over it. To anyone who created or learnt from it. I’m really glad that I got to share this story with you all, and ultimately left some kind of mark, no matter how big or small. 

Happy birthday, TINSITOGS. I had a lot of fun writing you. 

[themuffinbee]

Lore Olympus Novelized, Chapter 4

First Chapter - Previous Chapter

Hey, it's been a while. Life has been rough, so this took some time to finish. Since I'm having to play with the chronology of the chapters a little to fit a literary narrative format, the comic's Chapter 5 is LON's Chapter 4. It’s finally Pining Hades o’clock, my friends!

As always, this is merely an unofficial fan adaptation. All plot and dialogue belong to the talented Rachel Smythe. I'm just playing in her sandbox.

—————————————————

“I’m not into this.”

Silence.

“I’m not happy with myself,” Eros said, a little louder this time. Still, his mother ignored him as she flitted from car to car.

He glanced around the moonlit parking lot in the hope that there would be somebody, anybody around to put a stop to this nonsense. Of course, there wasn’t a soul to be seen.

“I’m so uncomfortable right now.” What an understatement. Eros had that creepy-crawly sensation like a thousand bugs moving under his skin when he thought about all the rules of consent he had broken in the last two hours. Ugh!

He kept his eyes straight ahead as he shifted the dead drunk, unconscious goddess in his arms, attempting to make her more comfortable. After all, it wouldn’t do for her to have a cramped neck or pinched nerve after a night like tonight. He had to have some standards.

“Oh, stop fussing and hurry up. Serves her right for being so trusting,” Aphrodite said without even a glance in his direction. She stopped and cocked her head. “Eros, do you know how to pick locks?”

For crying out--

“Ma, what the fuck are we doing?” Yeah, okay. He probably should have asked that question a couple of hours ago, but whatever. “I left a perfectly good orgy for this, I thought you had an actual emergency. It's late. I'm cold.”

His mother finally looked him in the eye, and, much to his disappointment, she seemed far more annoyed than concerned at his insubordination. 

“Look at this girl." He held up Persephone, her head lolling to the side. “She’s like the personification of a friggin’ cinnamon roll! An adorable, pink cinnamon roll!”

Aphrodite only crossed her arms and glared at him.

Oh, my gods. What. Even.

“Why are you jealous of a cinnamon roll?!” Eros took a calming breath. Getting angry with his mother only made her more stubborn. He took on a more coaxing voice and said, “Let’s just take her back to Artemis and tell her you’re feeling a bit more deranged than usual.”

That got a reaction. 

“Check that sassy attitude, Mr. Man,” his mother said with her hands on her hips, using a tone she normally reserved for his younger siblings. She turned away and clasped her hands to her chest, eyes misting over far too quickly to be sincere. “You still owe me big time after that bullshit you pulled with Psyche.”

Then she glanced back towards him, her eyes now narrowed in a chilling gaze. “You want to see her, right?”

And that was that. Eros pressed his lips into a thin line and remained silent.

“Yeah, I thought as much. Now help me find his car.” Aphrodite flipped her lavender hair over her shoulder and continued down the parking lot, her fists clenched at her sides. “Stupid Hades!”

Why was she acting so weird tonight? Everyone already knew she was beautiful, especially when she wore a getup like she had on tonight. Iridescent white with her purple complexion? Always a winning combination. And, besides... “Since when did you give a crap about the King of the Underworld?”

His mother shot him a glare over her shoulder. “It’s about respect!”

Eros sighed. “I’m pretty sure that breaking into someone else’s car is a crime...”

“Listen--”

“...aaand it’s not very respectful.”

“Listen.” She spread her hands out to the side of her face and little sparkles of light shot out of her fingers. “Listen.”

The sparkles formed a hazy image of a cartoonish, disgruntled Hades.

“We’re gonna hide her in his car." Aphrodite gave a little twirl of her finger and the cartoon Hades flung open his car door to reveal an equally indignant Persephone. “Once he gets home, he’ll find her. She’ll be super drunk and do a buttload of embarrassing stuff. He will think she’s totally gross.”

The imaginary Persephone fell to the ground crying as the cartoon Hades shrugged. Aphrodite lowered her pitch to something exaggerated and rough and not at all like the King of the Dead. “I’m a big stupid idiot and Aphrodite is the most beautiful goddess ever.”

“And then!” His mother returned her voice to normal as the image of Hades pushed a judgy-looking Persephone off of his driveway. “Since he took her home drunk, she’ll think he’s a creepy, old man."

Aphrodite smiled and closed her eyes, looking so content that she may as well have spent the day at a spa. “That’s the plan.”

Eros stared at her and tried to make sense of the raving nonsense he had just heard. At least this was Hades and not one of his brothers they were talking about, so Persephone should be safe enough. But still, this was beyond messed up. Did his mom really think this would work?

Aphrodite’s smile dislodged a bit and one of her eyebrows crooked upwards as she looked up at him, waiting. He sighed and pinched the bridge of his nose, “Fresh hell, I am embarrassed for you.”

She tried to protest, but he kept talking, “Mom, you seem to have such a distorted view of people these days...when did you stop seeing the best in people?”

Aphrodite pinched her mouth shut and spun on her heel with a “Hmph!” as she continued her march through the parking lot. 

"When did you forget about kindness?" Eros followed after her, "When did you forget about love?"

Still, Aphrodite walked onwards. 

It was at this point that Eros realized he may have given his mother a complex. Gods, what a fucking mess.

—————————————————

Hades pulled his car into the driveway and proceeded to sit and stare out the window, not really finding the will in his bones to move. This was the worst night he had put himself through in a while, and he wondered just how much more scotch it would take for him to wipe it from his memory.

Not only had he somehow fucked things up with Minthe, but he had acted like a complete fool at his brother’s party, all for a pretty girl he had never met. Looking back, even his thoughts were embarrassing. ‘Like a rose in a snarling mess of brambles?’ Where had he come up with a phrase so disgustingly saccharine?

Just then, a small sound from the back seat cracked through his ruminations. He turned his head and saw…

What. What the...why...how???

She was there. Persephone. In his car. Somehow. 

She was curled up asleep in his backseat, covered in roses of all things -- because of course she was -- and she looked, she looked…she looked miserable. Pale and sick. There was a small slip of paper attached with tape to her thigh, and drawn on it was a delicate little heart.

Aphrodite. 

She must have overheard him at the party, but he didn't remember seeing her there at all...which was probably Aphrodite's problem. The Goddess of Beauty had always been a diva that never liked to share the spotlight, but when did her ego get so fragile?

Hades shut off the engine and walked around the car as quietly as he could. When he opened the rear passenger door, Persephone let out a small, whimpering groan at the sound, but stayed limp, one of her knees dangling so far off of the seat that it almost drooped to the floor. There was no way she would be able to walk in that state.

Deciding to look only at what his hands were doing, and not at the disheveled goddess slumped over in the back of his car, Hades half-knelt on the floorboard and began brushing Aphrodite’s signature roses off of the seat, their cloying scent filling the air. His gaze remained glued to his fingers as he peeled the little note off of Persephone’s thigh and crumpled the offending piece of paper into a ball.

Trying to be gentle, and most likely failing, Hades hooked one arm behind Persephone’s shoulders and the other under her knees, sliding her out of the car and doing his best to avoid bumping her into anything. Her head lolled against his shoulder and the smell of alcohol on her breath replaced the scent of the roses. A lot of alcohol. 

As he walked towards the house, an emotion between sadness and anger grew behind his ribcage. There was no reason for her to be here, no reason for her to be mixed up with someone as...volatile as Aphrodite. No reason except for--

Hades felt Persephone stir against his chest and she let out a little moan, now reaching out an arm as though she were attempting to grab hold of something. A small butterfly made of pink light appeared on her wilting fingers while another fluttered about between her neck and his shoulder. Hades finally let his gaze drift up to her face and...hell. Even in as pitiful a state as she was in now, with her brow all furrowed and her skin far too pale, he would still say Persephone was more beautiful than Aphrodite. Thank Gaia the little goddess was practically dead to the world right now, otherwise, she would be able to hear his heart beating a thousand miles per minute and--

Hades frowned and looked away, resuming his path towards the house. He was not one of his brothers and he was not going to act like them tonight. Staring slack-jawed at someone across the room in the middle of a crowded party was one thing, ogling an incapacitated woman you were carrying into your home was very much so another.

A low whine pierced through the silence as a shape made of darkness padded out from the shadows. One canine head split into three, all six ears standing at full attention.

“Settle down, you might scare her,” Hades said as he motioned with his hand to halt his guard dog’s advance. He held Persephone closer with his other arm, vaguely realizing that one of her hands had curled itself around the lapel of his coat. Cerberus whined again, but his ears and tail relaxed by a fraction.

Good boy.

With only the minimum amount of fumbling and jostling, Hades managed to get the two of them through the sliding glass doors and into his living room. He shifted Persephone in his arms and bent over to deposit her into the nearest chair. Before he could lower her so much as two inches, he heard her make the smallest whimper into his shoulder as she flopped one of her arms around the back of his neck. Hell on Olympus, she sounded so sad, so scared. And why was she clinging to him? Was she so drunk that she thought he was someone else? That had to be it.

Cradling the back of her head in his hand, he whispered, “I’m just - I’m just going to put you down for a sec, okay?”

She did not answer, but he felt her arm slide off of his neck. As he laid her down in the chair, he tried to ignore how much he didn’t want to let go of her either.

Tasks. He needed tasks. Tasks were going to be his best damn friends tonight.

Task one: water.

His feet took him from the living room to the kitchen without further thought, his hands on autopilot. Open cupboard, grab glass, close cupboard, place glass under faucet, turn on faucet, turn off faucet, walk back to the living room, and--

He came to a halt the moment Persephone came back into view. She still looked miserable, of course, but even with her sickly pallor, she positively glowed in the darkness. Seeing her splash of bright pink against the ever-present shadows of his home, a dusting of wildflower petals gathering around his chair, it dawned on him just how foolish his attraction to her was. The King of the Dead together with the Goddess of Spring? The very thought was laughable, absurd.

Hades sighed as he knelt in front of the chair and Persephone opened her eyes, half-lidded and unfocused. He held the glass aloft in his hand, shaking it a little in an attempt to get her attention. “You should drink some water.” 

Her expression remained blank, a slow blink being the only sign that she may have comprehended his words. When she made no move to reach for the glass, Hades leaned forward, placed a tentative hand under her jaw, and held the glass to her lips. Though a few drops did spill out the sides of the cup, he saw her throat make weak work at drinking. Good.

Now for task two: accommodations.

Once she had nearly drained the glass, he set it aside and again picked her up from the chair, heading off towards whichever of his abandoned guest rooms he thought most likely to be ready for seldom-seen company.

As he carried the inebriated goddess through the darkened halls, Hades felt her sink deeper against his chest with every step, until she had nestled her head against his cheek, her fingers toying with his bowtie. Nobody had the right to be that damned adorable when they were blackout drunk. He tried not to think of what would have happened if Aphrodite had dumped her in someone else’s car by mistake. Someone like Zeus, or Ares, or Apollo.

He crossed the threshold of a suitable room and a knot formed in his throat as he came upon the third and final task of the night: sleep.

“Sorry for manhandling you…” Hades said as he sat down on the bed and pulled back the covers, Persephone’s legs splayed across his own. Somehow speaking aloud made this feel less...creepy. He let go of her once they were settled, expecting the little goddess to lie down and bury her face in a pillow. Instead, much to his contradictory discomfort and happiness, she steadied herself by looping her arms around his neck and slumped her head onto his shoulder.

Wow...right. Okay. This was not going the way he had planned. He cleared his throat and reached towards her feet.

“If you sleep with your shoes on, you’ll get sores on your feet,” he said, deciding that narrating his actions to the silent goddess made him at least feel much more comfortable. Though taking her shoes off wasn’t nearly the same as, say, changing her into pajamas, it still felt like it passed some boundary of intimacy. As he slipped one stiletto heel off and then the other, he noted that they came off a little too easily, like they were half a size too large. Hades thought of all the nights he had crashed on his office couch, too exhausted to bother taking off his shoes. The ill-fitting ones had always left behind the worst blisters. He winced a little at the memory. “Trust me, I know.”

Lifting the covers with one hand and cradling her back and head with the other, Hades managed to steer Persephone’s legs under the sheets. Her arms, however, stayed outstretched and draped over his shoulders even as he laid her head on the pillow. Damn, if he didn’t know that she was too drunk to even sit up on her own, he would have thought she was trying to seduce him--

A shiver ran through Hades, electrifying enough he might have mistaken it for one of Zeus’ lightning bolts. So light that he could barely register the sensation, he felt the slight brush of her fingers skimming over his hair. It stole the breath from his lungs. One by one, her fingers traced over his ears and ran along his cheeks, her touch gentler than anything he could remember. But, the pads of her fingers were also somewhat...rough. Not the soft, downy skin he would have expected of the dainty goddess.

For a moment, he wondered if she were attempting to map his face through touch as each finger spread over his features. Some outlined his cheekbones, one of her thumbs glided over the side of his nose, and a few of her fingers, gods, slid along his jaw. Each digit only made the barest, most tantalizing bit of contact with his skin, and that alone was nearly overwhelming. It wasn’t until her other thumb grazed the corner of his mouth that he realized had been sitting spellbound this whole time, his eyes shut as he leaned into her touch. Practically a puddle in her hands.

…Would she want to map out the rest of him with those hands?

You are not your brothers. You are not your brothers. Snap out of it! You are NOT your brothers.

Hades sighed and brought his hands up to catch hers before they went anywhere else. “Now stop that.”

Looking down, he could indeed discern a set of calluses padding her rosy fingers and palms. The puzzle of Persephone only continued to grow. It was a good thing he still had his gloves on, otherwise he would be so very tempted to explore those callused hands with his own.

Who was he kidding? He was already tempted. Which meant that he needed to leave.

“I’m going to bed now. Goodnight, “ he said as he released her hands.

Yes. Good. Satisfied that he had done the correct, gentlemanly thing (to the best of his abilities at least), he headed for the door.

And then he heard it.

From behind him came one loud, giant sniffle. And then a small whimper. And then another sniffle.

Oh. 

Oh no.

She was crying.

Before he knew it, he was back at the side of the bed, kneeling on the floor. “I can take you home if you want,” he said, noting more of those luminous pink petals had formed on the dark sheets, “I just don’t know where you live.”

“Please don’t tell my mom how drunk I got tonight,” she whispered, her voice all cracked and warbled. Tears were already streaming down her cheek as she clung to the pillow beneath her. “She’ll make me move back home if she finds out.”

Hades nearly chuckled, “Your mother? Demeter and I aren’t exactly best buds. I may be a lot of things, but I’m no snitch.” Surprised to find his hands moving on their own, he wiped away her tears in an attempt to stem the flowing tide. “Sweetness, don’t get worked up. Everything will seem one thousand times better in the morning.”

With one last baleful look at him, a gaze reminiscent of her earlier flash of sadness at the party, Persephone closed her eyes. Hades pulled the covers up and over her bare shoulders. At least his reassurance had given her some kind of peace.

After shutting her door behind him, he wandered through the shadowy corridors, his feet finally leading him to the rooftop patio. Hades breathed in the chill of the Underworld’s eternal night. The cold air on his skin, however, did nothing to reduce the memory of Persephone’s delicate touch on his cheeks.

Damn.

She shouldn’t be here.

Sunlight and wildflowers and warmth had no business being in the Land of the Dead, especially when she didn’t have a choice in the matter. Not that she would ever want to come here of her own accord anyway.

Hell, this entire night had been a new level of idiocy for him. Of course, Minthe was tired of his dour bullshit. Of course, Aphrodite would have been in the Olympian suite at the party. Of course, she would spite a less powerful goddess out of petty jealousy. Of course.

Hades gripped the handrail of the balcony as he surveyed his shrouded, dead kingdom, and had what he considered to be his most logical thought of the night:

This is all my fault.

[vanegranbluefantasy]

absolutely 0 of my friends want me to write an essay about how paimon is just a worse version of vyrn, so i'm going to do it here

the essay is under the cut if you want to read it

1. intro

First and foremost, who is Paimon? And by extension, who is Vyrn? How are they similar, and why would I want to compare them?

Paimon is from the game Genshin Impact, a popular RPG game that has been going around in the eastern gaming community. It's quite fun to play, but I got bored of it fast, but that is off topic. Paimon is a character that is introduced to you at the very beginning of the game. She's a in-game tutorial character, and also shows up in the game's pause menu. Even outside the pause menu, you see her a LOT in the game. The main quest has her talking quite a lot, and in character side-quests she acts as the main character's companion.

Moving on, Vyrn is apart of my favorite game right now: Granblue Fantasy. If you don't know what Granblue Fantasy is, it's a mobile game that came out in 2014 and is still quite popular today. It is a more visual novel based with an focus on teambuilding over combat. Back to Vyrn, he's also introduced to you at the very beginning of the game, and also acts as the in-game tutorial (somewhat, there are other characters who also guide you through the beginning of the game, but he is the one the player starts off with). Similar to Paimon, Vyrn is with the main character wherever they go, and although not apart of the pause menu, he has dialogue in many, if not the majority, of quests.

Both act as the mascot of each game, which makes each a better sell. They are both cute characters that are supposed to draw people in, which is why they're introduced within the first few seconds of each game. However, they're similarities go beyond that. Although their dialogue is not too similar for me to say that they have the same personality, they most certainly are both strange beings that float/fly, and go with you EVERYWHERE.

Why am I comparing them? The purpose of the essay is to see why I love Vyrn, but hate Paimon. You see, when I started playing Genshin Impact, I have already put months of my time into Granblue Fantasy at that point, so when I saw Paimon in Genshin, I said to myself, "Oh, this girl is cute. She reminds me of Vyrn! How fun!" Now, after putting hours into Genshin Impact, I've found myself to just despise her dialogue. First impressions are everything, but Paimon became more of a thorn in my side as I played through the game. Therefore, I'm here to analyze why.

2. Vyrn and Paimon's relationship to the player

Vyrn and Paimon's relationship to player is extremely interesting to me, and could be the reason why I don't like Paimon as much as I do Vyrn.

Paimon is introduced to the player immediately in the game, which is not a bad thing. Generally, every game has a tutorial stage to help the player figure out what to do and how to play, but Paimon is not a typical tutorial character. In many games that I've played, most tutorial characters are mentor types, and Paimon is not that. Paimon also does not know what this world is and is effectively exploring it WITH you -- not guiding you. This is not inherently bad, since the introduction is not what ticked me off about Paimon in the first place, but later on, it might become clear why I find this a sticking point.

Vyrn, in another game, is introduced very differently. He is introduced as "your best friend" which on it's own is quite weird, considering he's a flying lizard, but you're apart of a new world, anything could happen. He's been alive for an amount of time, so he generally knows what is going on. Not exactly a mentor type, but he gives much more clarity of the world the player is in, at least in comparison to Paimon. In the introduction, he gives a very clear picture of what kind of person the main character is and their backstory. Honestly, I came to trust him very quickly, despite him being a weird little monster.

These introductions in comparison seem really similar, which is why my initial reaction to Paimon was "Oh, this is Vyrn but again."

Now, what I find interesting is the beginning of conflict in both of the games.

Vyrn is introduced almost immediately. There is a beginning cutscene of the main character reading a letter from their father, and then the player meets Vyrn, who comments about the main character reading the letter again. This gives a backstory with Vyrn almost immediately. He knows that the main character has the asperation to get to the land of the astrals, and he wants to help to get main character there. It is only after this scene does conflict start: the Este airship covering the sun.

Paimon does not have this backstory. The initial cutscene in Genshin Impact is vague, to say the least. However, it immediately tells the player the conflict: the main character is searching for their twin. Paimon is not apart of the conflict whatsoever. Making her an outside entity, the main character does not express their troubles to Paimon as they explore this new world.

This marks a key difference in their introductions. Since Granblue Fantasy started the conflict WITH Vyrn, it caused me to be more attached much more quickly. It was clear through Vyrn's actions that he would stand by the main character's side no matter what happened. However, Paimon does not have that same connection. Since Paimon is not apart of the conflict whatsoever, I found a lot of my friends (who haven't played Granblue Fantasy) distrust her very quickly. Some jumped to the conclusion that she is going to be someone evil at the end of the story, and I don't blame them. So far, the only person the player can trust is the twin.

By making Paimon an outside entity to the conflict, it makes her very quickly a potential danger. However, with Vyrn being apart of the conflict, makes him a trustworthy ally.

3. Dialogue

Since the main characters of both Genshin Impact and Granblue Fantasy are self-inserts, someone needs to be able to talk. In Genshin Impact, Paimon is the stand-in to talk for the player, and in Granblue Fantasy, Vyrn is in a similar position. However, their dialogue itself is very different.

Vyrn and Paimon both create nicknames for people, which is why it's very easy to compare the two of them. Vyrn likes to give all of the crewmates nicknames, and none of them seem to mind it. Paimon also gives nicknames to the people her and the main character meet, but it feels less like a joke and more as an insult, calling her nicknames "ugly" and feeling bad when she finds out the nicknames she gives are to important people.

Vyrn's nicknames are generally playful like "Lop Ear" and "Sir Burnsalot," but can get insulting like "Miss Batter-For-Brains" and "Clefty." However, none of the people with the nicknames seems to mind it, despite him saying it very loudly and to their face.

However, Paimon keeps her nicknames almost to herself, as if she's doing them in secret. "Tone-Deaf Bard" and "Guhua Geek" are two of a few of these nicknames. None of the people recieving the nicknames seem very happy about being called that.

Don't get me wrong, both Paimon and Vyrn are being really rude by giving out nicknames to random people, but it's the reactions from the one's receiving said nicknames that gives clarity of the nicknames' true intentions. With the Granblue Fantasy crew not necessarily minding it and Genshin Impact characters getting angry, it becomes clear why the nicknames are created.

Both Vyrn and Paimon talk a lot of both of their respective games, but how the react to the this new world around them that tips the scales of me disliking Paimon.

Vyrn explores the new islands with you with little to no knowledge of the next island the player will fly to, and his reactions to each island are generally pretty on par with the player's. For example, going to an island that covered in mist, he's generally pretty cautious, expressing it in his dialogue.

However, Paimon keeps commenting on the obvious. Her dialogue is almost annoying because it is so obvious. I defeated a boss and she said something along the lines of, "That's it? Where's the treasure?" when there is clear newly-opened door on the other side of the room. The dialogue during the story is not as bad, but I find myself angry at her whenever she speaks anyway. Her comments don't add to the tone or the gameplay. They just frustrate me.

All of her comments and general rudeness make me really angry. She doesn't fight, and she doesn't seem like the one who would fight with me! She's only there to tag along with you, for some unknown reason! Her vagueness makes her worthless to me as the player.

4. Conclusion

The fact that Paimon does not seem like the type to go through thick and thin with the main character makes her frustrating to be around. Her introduction decided her fate of the annoying character that everyone continues to call "Emergency Food" rather than her name.

She's just annoying once you get to a certain part of the story because the constant reminder of her being an outsider is at every corner. She has not once mentioned a THING about the main conflict (finding the main character's twin), and even if she goes through the entire story if the player, she seems like she would run away from the final boss, if she herself ISNT the final boss!

Vyrn at least is like "Oh shit! Time to fight!" and generally is concerned about the main character's health and well-being. He's not much help in a fight, but at the very least he'll express that you need to heal. Vyrn is as much in this conflict of finding the asterals as the main character. He's a trustworthy ally, despite being rude sometimes.

In conclusion, despite being very similar, Paimon was sentenced to me hating her since the beginning because of her placement in the game's main conflict. Vyrn's placement in Granblue Fantasy's main conflict made him a much more trustworthy ally as the game continues.

Sorry for the spacing issues. I'm on mobile. Thanks for reading tho.

Play Granblue Fantasy, it's a good semi-visual novel. Plus, the mascot character isn't as annoying as Paimon.

[solacefruit]

Writing tips, pt 1. the paratext.

Thank you to everyone who expressed interest in this little advice series! Here is the first installation: paratext. I hope you find it useful! 

Please note: all writing advice is context-relevant. If the advice offered here doesn’t work for you, don’t follow it! 

Paratext is the stuff around the story: the title, blurb or summary, foreword, dedication, cover of the book (if it has one), and so on. In fanfiction, paratext also includes the tags, notes, rating, and any other additional information that isn’t part of the story but is attached to the text. Paratext is almost always what people first come into contact with, which means it’s in your best interest (and theirs!) that you make what you’re providing useful. Below I’ve outlined some of the pitfalls to watch out for and some strategies to keep in mind when figuring out how to give the right details to your future readers. 

Title. 

Do whatever you want! It’s your title. This part is very much about your own preferences, so pick something you like. 

Summary. 

Don’t ever write “I’m bad at summaries.” A summary is writing, so what you’re saying with that phrase is “I’m bad at writing” and that’s a fantastic way to get your reader to not want to be your reader! They’ll go read something by someone who doesn’t talk down their own work rather than waste their time on yours. Excusing yourself from having a summary with self-deprecation--or not having a summary at all--means that you’re not actually telling anyone what your story is about, which also means that you’re probably not going to attract readers. So what are some summary options if you’re stuck?

Simple but efficient. Think of two sentences that define the conflict in your story. Try to make your first sentence set the scene with specific details, and your second sentence introduce the source of tension. For example (using a non-existent fandom), “Holly has been working in the same dead-end job for the last four years, and finally quits to join the circus. When the silver-hatted ringmaster convinces her to train the lions, however, she realises too late that she’s signed on for more than she could have imagined.” These two sentences tell a reader enough information to get them intrigued and want to read more or let them know this story probably isn’t going to be for them, which is ideally what a good summary should do. 

Quote your story. My personal go-to, because it’s easy and I like the result. This method involves going through your work and selecting a passage or few sentences that really sum up your story’s overall vibe, its crucial conflict, or other meaningful or intriguing moment. You have a lot of freedom here to give the reader a taste of personal writing style and voice, and it’s a great way to show off a really killer bit of dialogue or a description you really like. 

Things to watch out for: rhetorical questions, which are almost never as engaging as people seem to think. Questions like “will they survive?” or vague statements like “or perhaps she will be the bravest of them all” are superfluous if you’ve written a good summary, because often it makes the writer sound uncertain and unwilling to make bold statements about what the story will be. If you can be specific with your statements, your summary will carry more weight and likely be more interesting and attractive to your reader. 

Compare these summaries from another fandom that doesn’t exist: 1. “Toby was a normal boy living a normal life with his sister. But when he finds out about wizard school, Toby’s next choice will change the world...” 2. “Toby thinks he’s a normal boy until he’s swept up into a world of magic and murder. When his sister is stolen by mysterious forces, will Toby decide to do what’s right?” 3. “Toby has an impossible choice to make: save his sister or get a scholarship to wizard school. After deciding to risk it all to save Hettie from the mysterious forces that stole her away, he thinks his dreams of wizardry are over... until a skeleton man makes him an offer he can’t refuse.” 

I personally feel the third option is the most riveting as a summary, because it’s full of detail. I know a bit about Toby, I know what choice he has to make, I know the name of his sister, I know that--as expected--he decides to save her but there’s still plenty I don’t know. Who is the skeleton man? What is his offer? Why can’t Toby refuse? So many delicious questions unanswered, but without being entirely vague and shapeless as a story concept. The job of the blurb is to make the reader open the first page, and the first page’s job is the get the reader to read to the second page, and so on. Keep this in mind as you go. 

Tags. 

Mileage varies here, but my rule of thumb is to keep the tags list trim and only include the essentials that people might need to 1. find your work and 2. figure out if it’s what they want to read. Characters with significant speaking roles are worth listing, but not background characters (especially if the cast is large). It becomes too unwieldy and makes it harder for people to tag-search for specific characters. Likewise, it’s important to use warnings in a way that will help your reader figure out if they’re prepared to read your work--which doesn’t mean you need to list every synonym or act of abuse that’s present, for instance. In many cases, you can go, “emotional manipulation” or “abusive parenting” and that’s going to tell people who’re sensitive to that material to avoid. 

Something I’ve noticed increasingly over the years is people using AO3′s tags like tumblr ones--i.e., a place to chatter--and I cannot recommend it. There’s nothing wrong with a few tags of non-essential information (it’s your work, after all!) but keep in mind that the tags do actually serve a function, and if your tags are a million lines long, not only is that frankly pretty annoying to scroll past, but also does not instill a sense of confidence in your work. If you’re looking to try to up the views on your work, keeping the tags functional and lean is one of the better ways to do that, in my opinion. 

Warriors-specific advice: the allegiance list. 

In theatre and books wherein it’s difficult to keep track of a huge cast of characters, it’s common to have a list of characters (or dramatis personae) in the front of the book or guide. The primary purpose of this list is to provide the viewer or reader something they can refer to as needed, to help keep characters straight in their mind. However, even in these long lists, usually only the most important characters are listed. The chorus is typically just “the chorus,” for example, and the order of the list tends to go from most speaking lines/significance in the story to least. 

Something I commonly see Warriors writers do is include full allegiance lists, of four entire 20+ cat clans, at the beginning of their stories, regardless of what clan the story takes place in or how relevant this information actually is. This is learned from canon, which includes an allegiance list in every book--but canon, at least initially, didn’t actually include full lists. Into The Wild listed Thunderclan in entirety, some of Shadowclan (the cats that feature in the book), and only the leaders (and deputy) of the other two. 

This more streamlined version is far easier for a reader to use, and frankly it is more likely a reader will read it if it’s not a wall of text about unfamiliar cats. Unless a full allegiance list of all your clans is vital for your story, consider cutting it down to your central clan and only the most important members of the other clans. If you think of your allegiance list as a practical tool, rather than just “something you do,” you’ll be able to make choices about when and how is the right time to use it in your story. 

[p4nkow]

You take my breath away - Part I

As soon as this idea popped in my mind I couldn’t resist not to write it down. The title of course is inspired by a Queen song — which I suggest you listen if you still haven’t done it — but I need to clear some things out. 

While reading this fic you need to pretend that Dominique was given much more space on the storyline, just like to the other love interests of the boys. Of course it is just fiction, even though I tried to make it as realistic as possible. The dates are pretty accurate, too, but I know it might seem a bit confusing so if you have any questions or if you’d like to let me know what you think of it just know that my DMs and Inbox are always open :) 

This is a slowburn fic and I believe it’s really important to chronologically follow all the events of their story before diving into the present day drama. ;)

Summary: reader has always dreamt of being an actress and she gets the chance of a lifetime when she’s cast as Dominique Beyrand in the infamous biopic about the legend himself, Freddie Mercury. But what will happen when she gets to know better the man who plays his love interest in the movie, Roger Taylor? Will Ben and Y/N’s story be as lucky as the one of characters they portray or will they be starcrossed lovers? Because it happens that things might get complicated because of Ellie, Ben’s long-term girlfriend.

New York City - present day 

“Y/N, over here!”

“Is it true? Is there going to be a Bohemian Rhapsody sequel?”

“Y/N! Hey, Y/N! Just a few questions!”

“Are you and Ben Hardy dating?”

All those flashing lights blinded you for a couple of seconds, forcing you to blink a frenetically. Your manager, a redhead named Callie, grabbed you firmly by your arm, leading you towards the entrance of the TV-studio. The fans were screaming your name and you couldn’t help but wave at them, causing them to cheer even louder. You hated the fact that they were forced to remain behind the fascinators, but it was for your own security. You apologetically smiled at them before following Callie inside the building. You let out a sigh as soon as the doors closed behind you, finally being able to breathe again and relax.

“You okay?” Callie gave you a quick look from above her shoulder but you noticed she was worried, so you nodded to reassure her.

“Yeah, I’m fine.” From where you were standing you could still hear the fans screaming your name and you turned towards the door to give a better look at the crowd. You’d never get used to it.

“The boys are already here. Look, over there.” Callie tapped on your shoulder and you turned around, looking at the spot she was pointing at. Her red hair caught the attention of those presents but she didn’t seem to care. “I’ll go take a look at the schedule. Please don’t disappear.”

As you watched her walking away you decided to join the boys, but not without taking a deep breath first. Joining the boys would’ve meant to meet Ben again, a concern which had kept you awake all night.

When you got the role of a lifetime in one of the most eagerly awaited movie of the year, you didn’t count the fact that you’d constantly be on the spotlight.

When you were young you dreamt of being an actress. Needless to say you annoyed your mother to death by performing movie dialogues and God knows how many soliloquies she was forced to hear.

You considered yourself lucky for succeeding in achieve your dream — your annoying monologues had led you to something greater. The day your manager called you to announce you’d been cast in a Hollywood movie you cried your eyes out. And the proud look in your mother’s eyes — oh man, you’d remember it ‘till the day you died.

The infamous movie which had been your springboard to Hollywood was a biopic about Freddie Mercury called Bohemian Rhapsody. Of course you knew who Freddie Mercury was: you’d grown up blasting Bohemian Rhapsody in your bedroom, annoying the neighbours by doing so — who didn’t miss the chance to complain about it with your mom almost every day.

The idea of being cast as Dominique Beyrand, Roger Taylor’s first wife, made you feel ecstatic at first.

But then you realised the greatness of the situation and you freaked out.

What if you screwed it up?

What if you didn’t get along with your cast mates?

What if Dominique wouldn’t like your portrayal of her?

The idea of playing a living person terrified you, but all your fears slowly disappeared during the first week of filming.

You had the chance to meet your cast mates during the first table read, where you recognised some familiar faces. Even if that had been two years ago, you remembered that day as if it was yesterday.

London - September 7th, 2017

The room was filled with strangers, who were all chatting to each other. The table read was a perfect occasion to know better those who were going to be your cast mates and you were more than happy to recognise some of them.

You were thrilled by the fact that Rami Malek was going to play the legend himself, Freddie Mercury. You’d seen some of his works and you were a huge fan of Mr. Robot, the TV show in which he played the main character. You couldn’t wait to see him in action and for sure you just couldn’t ignore all the looks he was throwing to a blondie standing close to the window, chatting with another girl who you didn’t recognise. You could swear you’d seen the blondie somewhere but you really couldn’t recall.

You also recognised the man who played the Sgt Charlie Nelson in Midsomer Murders, Gwilym Lee. And it was a challenge for you not to fangirl over him — you and your mother were crazy about that show. You never missed an episode.

Among the other unknown face you spotted the guy who played one of the main characters in Downtown Abbey: Allen-something.

He was sitting right next to a man who had a familiar face to you, but given all the anxiety and enthusiasm of the moment you couldn’t really recognise him. His shirt read: “Dinosaurs are dino-mite!” And you couldn’t help but chuckle, but you couldn’t understand why he was wearing a hat.

As you gave a quick look at the rest of those presents your eye was been caught by a blonde, handsome guy. He was chatting with the dino-guy, who you later found out was going to play the bassist, John Deacon, but God, even his left side made you feel things.

You weren’t sure you’d seen any of his works but you were definitely willing to know him better, given that according to the sign placed right in front of him, he was the one who was going to play Roger Taylor, your love interest in the movie.

You were more than aware that to know better those people you had to actually have a conversation with them, but you were too nervous to do that so you were just leaning against the wall, casually sipping your cappuccino while giving a better look to the script. You were involved in reading your lines when you noticed someone approaching you.

The blonde Adonis slash the fake Roger Taylor was standing right in front of you, holding a bottle of water in one hand. Being this close to him gave you the chance to give him a better look. His features were delicate but his body... oh, his body. He was hot, a perfect representation of the greek god Apollo. You didn’t get the exact color of his eyes at first, it was a shade of green so clear that you found difficult just to look away.

“You must be Y/N.” His voice was deep and hoarse, very much different from what you expected and for sure very much different from Roger’s, too.

You shook his hand with a smile, managing to hold both the cup and the script with one hand only. His touch was nice and gentle and not sweaty and unpleasant at all. “Yeah, that’s me.”

“I’m Ben.”

Ben. Short and concise. He definitely had a ‘Ben’ kind of face.

“So, it seems that we’re gonna be a couple.” Probably it hadn’t been the best way to break the ice but he smiled anyways. He stuck his tongue out while doing it and you thought it was the hottest thing ever.

“It looks like that, yeah.” He lowered his gaze to the script before looking back at you. “Could I have seen you somewhere before? Your face looks familiar.”

“Unlikely. Uhm— that’s my first movie ever, actually. I’ve been doing theatre most of my life.” And you cleared your throat, trying to relax in his company. He wasn’t intimidating or anything, you just had to know him better. You had the feeling that you’d spend an incredible amount of time with him on set.

“Theatre?” He asked in an amazed tone. “Wait, is there any chance you were involved in the adaptation of Les Misérables?”

Was there any chance for him to be interested in theatre? You didn’t know anything about him so never say never. “If you’re talking about the one of the South London theatre then yes, I played Éponine.”

As his smile grew wider his green eyes seemed to light up. Aaand there it was again, that goddamn tongue. “That’s where I remember you from.”

His excitement was captivating and because of that you couldn’t help but smile back at him. “I don’t remember you in the company, though.”

“Oh no, no”, He hurried to say. “I haven’t done theatre since ages, but my girlfriend played the role of Cos... Cosette? Is that right?”

His girlfriend.

Of course he had a girlfriend, you shouldn’t even be surprised. You tried not to seem too caught off guard by hearing his words and you took a sip of your drink to temporise. “I vaguely remember her, yeah. Y’know, we didn’t have any scenes together”, You lied. You remembered her perfectly, to be honest. And she was very talented. And very lucky too, now that you knew she was dating Ben.

He nodded in understanding and you both turned towards the door as soon as you heard the voice of the director, who was calling the attention of those present. He genuinely smiled at you before going back to his seat.

You took yours too, which happened to be between the blondie — who grinned at you and introduced herself as Lucy Boynton — and Gwilym Lee. Ben’s seat was right in front of yours and you gave him a thankful smile when he grinned at you in sign of support.

You remember that the exact same day Dr. Brian May himself posted a picture on Instagram of the full cast taken right after the ending of the table read. You were standing between Priya, the girl who played Kashmira Bulsara — Freddie’s sister — and Gwilym, whose arm surrounded your shoulders. You were all smiling at the camera and it was one of your favorite memories. 

The caption read: “We’re making a movie !! It’s finally official. These great guys are already living and breathing their roles as us in our youthful prime. The Bo Rhap ship is now sailing under her own steam. Bon Voyage to all who sail in her ! So proud to see this fabulous team go forward. Honoured! Bri.” It was a very special picture and now, almost two years later, you had it framed.

After the table read it took the crew only two days to list the shooting schedule but you started filming only two weeks later, when the director had finally taken all the shots needed to recreate the infamous Live Aid.

And that’s how you met Ben Hardy.

London - September 27th, 2017

It was the fourth time Rachael politely asked you to stay still but doing it while having a conversation with Joe — also known as Dino-boy — was a difficult challenge. Maybe pissing off the hair stylist during your very first week on set wasn’t the best was to start that journey.

You heard a loud ‘chop’ as another strand of your hair fell on the ground. Moreover, that day you finally understood why Joe was wearing a hat during the table read: he had a bloody perm, which made him look like a mushroom. A very big one.

“So what is it about?” He was really interested in understanding the dynamics of ‘Love Island’ and you couldn’t believe he’d never watched a single episode of it.

“I already told you, Joe!” Rachael gave you a death stare through the mirror when you turned towards him, clearly amused by his words. You murmured an apology to her before focusing back on Joe. “A group of people—”

“Singles?” You were about to nod at his question but you knew that would’ve pissed Rachael off, so you replied “Yeah. They live in this beautiful villa in Mallorca, constantly under video surveillance.”

You heard another ‘chop’ and then one more. You tried not to think about your hair, focusing on Rachael’s gentle hands stroking what was left of it. Joe took a sip of his Coca-Cola, his eyes narrowed as he was thinking. “Basically it’s another version of the Big Brother.”

He was really involved in your explanation and you could see it by the look on his face. His brows were narrowed as he tried to understand, but you couldn’t take him seriously with that perm of his. “Nope, ‘cause they’re coupled up with someone and at the end the only couple left wins lots of money. I can’t believe you never heard of it!”

And the following hour was spent explaining the dynamics of the show to Joe under the amused but focused look of Rachael. When she was finally done with your hair you slipped your fingers through it. It was way much shorter than before but Dominique had it like that back in those days. You could’ve definitely grown used to it.

“You’re lucky, y’know?” Joe looked at you with the corner of his eye while you were heading to the set. You raised your gaze from the script just to give him a questioning look. “Huh?”

It was weird seeing him in the typical 80s clothes but that was exactly what you were wearing, too. The delicate fabric of your dress caressed your legs as you walked on the grass. “At least Dominique didn’t have a perm.”

His exasperated look made you chuckle while he threw his arms in the air. You moved a strand of hair off your face as he opened the door of the building for you. “Oh, c’mon. Don’t be such a drama queen. You’ll cut it sooner or later.”

As soon as you stepped in heard loud noises of hammering and shouted commands — they were still building the set, which happened to be the Taylor’s house. 

“Oh, yeah. But I’m afraid to know what’ll come next.”

“Nothing can be worse than that perm.” You giggled at the sight of his funny face and in that moment you spotted Ben in one of the corners, accompanied by a blonde. “I had forgotten Ellie was coming to set today.”

Joe gave you a questioning look before keep checking the shooting schedule. You nodded towards the pair, who was standing not so far away from you, and Joe followed your indication. “Ben’s girlfriend”, You clarified.

You lowered your gaze to the script you were holding, giving a last look to your lines as Joe asked you “D’ya know her?”

“Barely”, You lied, but luckily Joe didn’t know that. The two of you approached them and you genuinely smiled.

“Hey man” Joe said in a cheerful tone and Ben gave him the biggest smile while Ellie, who was giving her back to you, turned around.

“Hey buddy, Y/N. That’s Ellie.” He placed a hand on her back as she extended her hand towards Joe first, murmuring “Nice to meet you”, and then at you. Her face lit up when she finally recognised you. “Y/N, what a surprise!”

You shook her hand and smiled at her but then your gaze fell on Ben. He was wearing a wig, a very short one, but it looked good on him. The shirt he was wearing was a blue one with a tartan pattern, matched with a pair of very tight blue jeans and Adidas shoes. The perfect 80s style.

“Ellie, hey. It’s nice to see you again.” She wrinkled her nose as she smiled at you and Ben seemed really happy about the two of you meeting again. When you met his green eyes his smile widened and you felt his gaze studying your face.

“Your hair’s shorter.” You were flattered by the fact he noticed the change and you shyly smiled at him, voluntarily ignoring Ellie’s look.

You murmured a soft “Yeah” but Joe came in rescue, surrounding your shoulders with his arm and playfully squeezing your arm. “She wants to catch the essence of Dominique.”

“I can’t wait to see you in action”, Ellie said and you thanked her with a smile.

The truth was, you were nervous as hell. You were about to shoot your first scene ever and you were terrified you’d screw it up.

Ben, Ellie and Joe started a conversation about the building of the set when your phone rang, announcing a new message. It was from your best friend Laura, so you immediately unlocked the phone to read it.

‘Today is the day! Kick their asses, girl. Break a leg and please, not Ellie’s. Luv ya :) X’

You genuinely smiled at her words and you shook your head, amused by her insinuations. She knew all the story behind Ben and Ellie and to be honest you barely knew him, so there was nothing to be jealous of. So Ellie’s legs were just fine.

You put away your phone and tried to follow their conversation when the director called you and Ben to reach him. It was showtime.

Ben placed a kiss on Ellie’s lips before reaching you and starting to walk by your side. “I love this new hairstyle, it looks good on you.” You were caught off guard and you didn’t even had the chance to thank him because you were now in front of the director. You noticed, however, that he seemed pleased by the effect his words had on you.

“Okay, guys. I know this is your first scene together and you still need to get along, but try your best. I wanna feel all the frustration and despair of the situation. Y/N, if needed, don’t hesitate to improv. Give me goosebumps, ‘right?” And when you nodded in agreement you turned towards Ben, just to find out that he was already staring at you.

“If you’re gonna improv please don’t punch me.” His playful tone made you giggle as you both placed in your predefined spots. You were just a few inches away from him and by the way the was tapping his hand on his thigh you knew he was nervous, too. Despite that he didn’t miss the chance to reassure you. “You’ve got this.”

Ellie was standing right next to the director’s chair, her eyes fixed on Ben as the crew got ready to shoot the scene. Joe was standing on her side and he showed his thumbs up in sign of support.

You cleared your throat and you raised your chin to meet Ben’s blue eyes. The director was shouting commands through his megaphone and you narrowed your brows in a hurt expression just before he shouted “Action!”

And with the most dramatic tone you knew, you exclaimed “Roger, how could you?”

London - October 10th, 2017

As far as you could remember, Ellie was always around when it came for you and Ben to shoot scenes together. Not to mention all the embarrassment when you had to shoot a love scene, under Ellie’s observatory gaze.

“You nervous?” Ben must’ve noticed the way you were nervously tapping your feet on the floor. You bit your lower lip and slowly nodded, turning towards him. The wig he was wearing was a bit longer than the previous ones, perfectly nailing Roger’s look in the late 70s. He was wearing a half-unbuttoned black shirt and a grey jacket, which you remembered seeing in some old pictures of those days. You wondered if it was the original one, courtesy of Roger himself, or if it was an exact reproduction of it.

The dress you were wearing, on the other hand, came directly from Dominique’s wardrobe. It was a nice sensation feeling the silk against your skin.

“A bit”, You replied. There was no point in lying. It was your very first love scene for the cameras and having not only Ellie but also Roger and Dominique to witness it made you incredibly nervous. The warmth of Ben’s green eyes hit you like a running train when you met his gaze.

“Don’t mind them.” His words were nothing but a whisper now that he had come closer to you. “Pretend it’s just you and me.”

“It doesn’t help at all.” You grinned at him and immediately relaxed when he placed his hands on your shoulders, gently squeezing them.

“Guys?” The two of you turned towards Roger who, with the phone in hand, was standing right next to Dominique. You couldn’t even imagine how they’d be feeling at the moment, given that they were seeing someone portray a younger version of themselves. We were their alter-ego’s.

“Yeah?” Ben let go of your shoulders and you both turned towards them. Dominique’s friendly smile helped you not to overthink about the scene you were about to film, so you tried to avoid Ellie’s burning gaze and focus on her only.

“D’ya mind smiling at the camera?” Dominique asked pointing at Roger, who was smiling behind his phone.

“‘f course”, You replied with a smile and you moved closer to Ben. You remembered seeing a picture of a young Roger and Dominique wearing those exact same clothes hung in the costume fitting trailer, so shortly before Roger took the pic, you pretended to put a finger on Ben’s nose who, immediately understanding your intentions, parted his lips in a surprised look. Dominique bursted into laughter and you could be wrong but you noticed her eyes becoming glossy.

Not long after it was time to start filming and by taking a deep breath you reached your spot. Ben was standing not so far away from you and you noticed him grinning at Ellie before turning towards you. His smile grew wider and you tried to focus only on him when the director started to shout orders.

“Just relax”, He mouthed and Fletcher finally said “Action!”

It was like you were leaving your skin just to empathise with Dominique — and to be honest, that was the best part of being an actress.

You threw your arms in the air in sign of frustration as you thought about your next line. “I can’t believe I had to know it from John!”

Ben — or rather, Roger — took a step towards you, his green eyes so different from Roger’s yet so mesmerising were fixed on yours. “I was gonna tell you, love. I was just waiting for the right moment.”

You could feel Ellie’s gaze on you as you took a step towards him, your eyes narrowing in — fake — anger. “The right moment? There may not have been the right moment, Roger! For God’s—”

And Ben’s lips crushed on yours. They were incredibly soft and... kissable, of course. His touch made you feel things you didn’t want to feel, firstly because he was dating someone and his girlfriend was right there, watching the two of you kissing, and secondly, you barely knew him. But you’d be a liar if you denied the fact that you were attracted by him.

His hands cupped your cheeks as he started to gently move his lips on yours and you threw your arms around his neck, pulling him closer to you. You heard the director murmuring orders from his chair behind the screen while you kissed Ben back.

“Lift her up”, you heard him say and Ben’s hands moved from your face to your body, gently caressing the curves of your body. You were still kissing him back, almost breathless, when he lifted you up by grabbing the back of your thighs.

You surrounded his hips with your bare legs and he placed a hand on your back to hold you. Your body was so pressed against his that you could easily feel his muscles under the shirt.

“Y/N, the jacket.” You followed Fletcher’s order and you backed away from his lips just the time to slip your hands under his jacket and quickly taking it off. It fell on the ground and Ben avoided it while recoiling towards the bed, just as Fletcher ordered.

His hands gently caressed your bare thighs and his touch gave you goosebumps. You could feel the corns in his hands due to the constant practicing on the drums so that he could properly prepare for the role.

Your hands gently caressed his neck while his hands moved to the zip of your dress, which easily opened before leaning you on the mattress.

“Look at her in the eyes”, Fletcher said, but there was no need because his eyes were already fixed on yours. And you hoped he was a terrific actor, even more than you thought, because if it wasn’t so Ellie wouldn’t have liked the look on his face while he was looking at you.

As you opened further your legs so that he could be comfy between them, his clothed hips pressed against yours. It took you all the strength you had in your body not to blush hard at the feeling of his crotch pressed against your right thigh.

Ben noticed the look in your eyes and he gave you an amused grin when the director shouted through his megaphone “And... cut!”

“Sorry”, He murmured while moving off you, sitting on the mattress right next to you. He offered you a hand which you gratefully accepted and you sat down. Fletcher stood up from his chair and while he walked towards you, you vaguely gestures towards your back and asked Ben “Could you gimme a hand?”

“‘f course.” You turned your back to him and his touch sent shivers down your spine while he lifted the zip of the dress.

“Amazing. Simply amazing.” The director started gesturing as he took off his headphones, his face lit up by a big, excited smile. “There’s no need to do a second shot. It’s perfect. Love your chemistry, by the way.”

If a look could kill, you’d be already dead by the hand of Ellie.

Later that night you were finally taking some rest in your trailer when you heard your phone buzzing. By unlocking it with a groan you found out that Roger had posted a picture on Instagram in which you were tagged. The pic in question was the one he had taken that afternoon on set — you were looking at the camera with the biggest smile while pretending to put a finger on Ben’s nose, but his gaze was on you. He was looking at you with the brightest smile you’d ever seen, his lips parted in a fake shocked reaction.

You genuinely smiled while reading the caption: “The talented @benhardy and @y/n doing me and Dom on the forthcoming Bio-Epic — Bohemian Rhapsody the Movie. Now this is cool!”

You immediately reposted it, not knowing that the web would’ve freaked out for days for that photo.

And the situation has stayed the same for another month or so, in which you’d grown closer to almost every cast member. Lucy was now like a sister to you and she was for sure one of the people who knew you better in the world.

But everything suddenly changed in November.

London - November 3rd, 2017

“Bloody weather”, You heard Lucy murmur as the two of you hurried to get back to your trailers before it started to rain. You went shopping for the upcoming Queen gig you’d been invited to that night and saying you were excited was nowhere near the truth. You were bloody ecstatic.

“Are you coming home for Christmas, auntie?” You looked at Lucy with the corner of your eye as the voice of your little nephew through the phone made your heart sank.

“Hopefully yes, lovie. D’you miss me?” Lucy gave you a nod when you finally got to her trailer and you waved her goodbye before rushing to reach yours before it started to pour.

“Yeah, so much. What’s my Christmas gift?” You let out a laugh as you closed the door behind you, sighing in relief for succeeding in avoiding the rain.

“What’d you like to get, Fra?” Your nephew — Francis — seemed to think about your question and you smiled just at the thought of him. You missed your family more than anything but thankfully you’d be seeing them in a month thanks to the Christmas break.

“Do I really have to choose?” His words made you giggle as you laid on your bed, eyes to the ceiling. “Would you like for it to be a surprise?”

“Yes, auntie.” But you were barely listening to him, given that someone was knocking on the door.

“I’ll call you later, love. I gotta go. Say hi to mommy for me.” After saying him goodbye you hung off the phone, placing it on the desk near the bed as you got up to get the door. The knocking was now louder and more persistent, a change which made you worry,

But you weren’t expecting what you saw after opening it. Ben was standing under the pouring rain, wet from head to toe. “Can I... Can I come in?” His voice was shaky and at first you thought it was because of the rain but as you moved aside to let him in, murmuring a soft “Yeah, ‘f course”, you noticed that he looked devastated.

You closed the door behind him and by doing so you moved closer to him, which allowed you to give a better look at his face.

His features were tensed and his brows had never been so narrowed. Wet strands of hair had fallen on his forehead but despite that you could easily see his green eyes. But their typical light had faded: they were incredibly red, full of sadness, and the look he gave you made you fear the worst.

“What happened?”, You asked in a whisper while placing a hand on his harm, trying to reassure him.

“I...” He rubbed his eyes while taking a deep breath and you raised a hand to drive the blond strands off his face. When his gaze met yours again you felt a sudden knot in your throat. “We’ve broken up, Y/N. Ellie and I just broke up.”

There will be a part 2 so if you wanna be added in the taglist just tell me :)

[kendelias]

OTP ask game for Oliver and Isaac?

skipped number thirteen cos it bummed me out and the last one bc it was to make up your own q!

1. What was their first impression of each other?

oliver was immediately attracted to isaac, and crushed on him for most of their childhood. isaac thought oliver was hot, but an asshole (which isn’t 100% wrong but he thought he was like a bully and boy was he wrong!). plus, he was busy crushing on lydia, so he also viewed him as lydia’s sidekick (which also wasn’t wrong).

2. What is their ship name?

olisaac!

3. Describe their relationship dynamic.

oliver going “BNJFNSKBNELBNKLEN” and isaac smiling, softly, but putting his face in his hands and going “oh my god” nonetheless. dumbasses, empty heads but full hearts.

4. What was their relationship like before they got together?

oliver was quietly pining from afar, isaac was slightly afraid of him (for no good reason).

5. How would they describe each other?

isaac would describe oliver as a dumbass with a great ass. a know-it-all, but in a good way, and extremely caring and loyal. (also lowkey a crackhead)

meanwhile, oliver would describe isaac as gentle, kind, and very, very handsome. also semi-aloof. like isaac wishes not to be known but uh oh! oliver is going to know him!

6. What do they love about each other?

everything, but specifically isaac loves oliver’s brain (intelligence... hot) and his very cute ears (pointy. isaac monsterfucker confirmed.)! oliver loves isaac’s (at times hidden) kind heart and his back!

7. What do they have in common?

crunchy outside gooey inside, ride-or-die loyalty, putting their lives on the line for dumb reasons

8. What are some differences between them?

oliver thinks things through whereas isaac jumps headfirst into danger; oliver is super extroverted whereas isaac is more introverted; oliver is very nosey whereas isaac is like “please can we mind our own business”

9. What made them realize they were in love?

oh great question. i think for oliver it was more of a long-time realization than an abrupt moment, but i think he really acknowledged it to himself when isaac was hospitalized and nearly killed in 3x01. for isaac, it’s legitimately the next episode, after he’s put in the ice bath and there’s a scene for them that’s like. very. important. (it’s kind of spoiler-y and not yet written so im being vague as hell)

10. What are their love languages?

a little bit of everything, but mostly words of affirmation and quality time!

11. Do they get married? Who proposes and how?

they do!!! oliver proposes but only after long and extensive conversations about it; it’s probably a surprise but like. just the two of them in their own home after watching a movie on netflix or something.

12. What would happen if they never met?

bro..... hate to think about it. BUT oliver would probably be very promiscuous (as he kind of was beforehand) and wouldn’t settle down til much later in life. he probably would have stayed with his mother and taken on the duties that were meant to be placed on him which... would be bad! meanwhile, things would have gone pretty much the same for isaac as in canon im sure, which is upsetting in its own right! 

14. Are there any love rivals?

i mean besides the nameless people oliver dates before isaac (and technically lydia i guess), not really!

15. Describe your favorite moment of that ship!

okay so from what i’ve written (because i’m sure there’s some i haven’t written that’s gonna be really good), right after isaac decides he’s going to leave beacon hills with erica and boyd in 2x11, he goes to see oliver, and asks him what he thinks. oliver tells him outright what he thinks and it’s a very mature and honest conversation that shows the serious side of oliver we rarely get to see! they have like a really real conversation about their relationship and why isaac shouldn’t stay for oliver particularly, but for himself. it gets to me every time.

16. What do other characters think about this relationship?

for the most part, nobody cares JSDMFKMKSDNKF like they’re just chillin! but lydia thinks they’re very cute (although she was a little jealous at first), murphy thinks they’re annoying but he’s really secretly happy for oliver, and imogen is like “hell yeah go off lil elf boy.” oliver’s mom, elaina, has forbidden oliver interacting with the pack but she also doesn’t know he’s like. gay or anything let alone dating isaac jdfkewfkn

17. Describe or write a really fluffy scene!

okay so after their first date, oliver drives isaac home and they have a (joking and flirting) conversation about their relationship and how isaac should stop, like, endangering his own life. they also have their first kiss! here have some dialogue

Oliver: Hey, what you did tonight? It was kind of stupid.

Isaac: Which part?

Oliver: See, the fact that you have to ask that question concerns me. [Isaac chuckles.] Some of us kind of care that you keep endangering your life, you know.

Isaac: Kind of?

Oliver: Okay, really care. Really, really care.

Isaac: That’s new for me. You, Derek, and Scott might be the first people to care.

Oliver: Somehow I got that feeling.

18. Describe or write a really angsty scene!

okay so the scene after isaac gets dunked in the ice... angst! but besides that, the scene where gerard corners them both in the locker room during the lacrosse game in 2x11

19. Talk about a headcanon you’ve never talked about before.

okay so i kind of talk about everything about them to at least saraid and nicole BUT for part of their honeymoon they go to disneyland in paris, france and are very obnoxious the entire time

20. What does a typical date look like for them?

they love going on long drives!! they also love museum dates and taking walks in parks

21. What’s a really significant moment in their relationship?

oh when isaac admits that he cares... that’s a good one! because it shows oliver that this is more than a one-sided infatuation. plus it’s just after when gerard’s cornered them in the locker room and oliver’s healed him. it’s a moment,,,, whew.

send me a ship for the otp ask!

[dcomposing]

jumin route rewrite???

ive had.... Issues with jumin's route since the first time i played it and im waiting out a 3 hour layover which means its time to self indulgently fix all of those problems right now in excruciating detail

for the record, i dont mean any disrespect towards cheritz -- i love mysme dearly and this is purely a self indulgent experiment to see what my ideal jumin route would have been! if you like his route as is thats totally fine! it just wasnt for me lmao

this was super fun to write and if this picks up i might do another route rewrite (and i might do it even if it doesnt because it was just that fun lol)

anyways this is REALLY long (literally its like 3k words all in outline form) so its gonna go under the cut lol

okay so: issues i had with jumin’s route that i want to address:

it moves WAY too fast — i mean all of the routes do to a certain degree; they’re only 11 days long but like... you’re literally engaged to him by the end of it which iirc, is something that is only replicated in seven’s normal ending (and even then i think its only implied?) and i get that the point is that jumin goes all out for the people he loves and is VERY certain that he loves you but it just feels... way too soon for my liking ESPECIALLY because you’re his first love! it just makes it feel like he’s caught up in the rush of being in love for the first time and isn’t thinking things through which... isn’t exactly the making of a great relationship lol. so for this re- write we’re gonna slow it WAY down because... oof. 

the sarah and glam plot line happening concurrently with the mint eye/possessive jumin one makes the route feel overly busy. i actually have a similar issue with the echo girl/mint eye overlap in zen’s route but that’s a topic for another day lol. so i’m gonna try to delineate between the two a bit more so there’s less overlap.

SPEAKING OF possessive jumin lol... maybe its just my Personal Background bleeding in, but possessiveness is a really big red flag/trigger for me and i felt like it went WAY too far in his route. dgmw, i understand that its meant to be a character flaw and something he’s meant to overcome but i just feel like there are simpler ways to show that side of him without it becoming... as scary as it got. i wasn’t sure how to deal with it though -- i think it would best be expressed through smaller actions and the minutia of dialogue with the others (e.g. jumin refusing to send a photo of you into the chat room when zen asks if you’re alright, locking up elizabeth, etc.)

the canon first kiss with jumin happening both without your explicit consent AND just to drive sarah away is.... icky to me. especially because he MAKES EYE CONTACT WITH SARAH while kissing you??? i hate that cg lol. it just takes what should be a moment about the two of you and turns it into him using you to prove a point and i don’t like it at all. it’s not romantic and it feels... out of character for jumin to use someone he cares about like that. i have similar issues with the proposal happening right after he exposes glam and sarah. so lets make the kiss more genuine and nix the proposal entirely because it happens too quickly for comfort anyways.

with all of that in mind, i decided a fake dating plot would probably work best (and like i said, this is self indulgent and i’m a SUCKER for fake dating stories sooooo). it makes sure we hit all the beats of the glam/sarah plot line without shoving him and the mc into a relationship too quickly. it also means we can keep their first kiss as a big “fuck you” to sarah, but this time mc gets to be 100% in on the joke AND they get to have a “real” first kiss later on! that’s two (2!) kisses for the price of one folks.

i also decided that in order to streamline the plot a bit, the glam and sarah plot should end earlier, allowing for the mint eye plot to take center stage instead of being shoehorned in around a larger love triangle plot line. also glam and sarah are annoying and i don’t want to deal with them for six full days. the only downside is we don’t get to see v dunk on sarah at the party :-(

in lieu of a proposal for the necessary Big Romantic Gesture at the party, i thought it would be nice if jumin whisked you away from the party to paris or somewhere far away for a ridiculously extravagant first date literally in the middle of the party. not only is it ridiculously grandiose in and of itself, but in abandoning the party halfway through, it shows that jumin has grown into a more relaxed and spontaneous person through knowing you! he’s ready to throw caution to the wind and have fun with you (plus, Big Romantic Date cg!!)

day 5:

VN mode where we essentially get the exact same scene of chairman han telling jumin he wants him to marry sarah to make the merger with sugar round go more smoothly BUT this time jumin blurts out that he’s already with someone and that he didn’t want to go public with it yet. he assumes his father won’t press further, given that they’ve always had a mutual respect for one another’s privacy, but at glam’s insistence, chairman han says he wants to meet jumin’s partner. oh no!

jumin laments his situation to the rfa, resulting in pretty typical responses. zen laughs, yoosung is sympathetic but also kind of wishes it were just that simple for him to meet a wife. jaehee is worried that the inevitable fallout of this will result in more work for her. everything is business as usual until seven is like “ur so rich why don’t you just pay someone to pretend to date you lolol” and jumin (being, well, jumin) runs with it 100%. because they don’t have time to vet candidates (they’re supposed to have dinner with his dad tomorrow night!) he decides it should be someone he knows, but the majority of the other rfa members are already acquainted with his father via rfa events, making it more likely that he sees through the ruse. mc, however, has never met him, making them the perfect candidate! who would have thought lol

so they decide to move you into the penthouse that evening BUT before that can happen, they have to clear it with v because bomb, hacker, mint eye, etc. (yes this is how i’m choosing to do the bomb reveal lol). bonus, v gets to chide jumin about his dumb lie and we get a fun bff conversation with them!

final VN where you show up to the penthouse and you and jumin establish the parameters of your “relationship”. you decide that you’ll both sleep in his bed, just in case a cleaning staff member walks in and notices that he and his partner sleep separately and it ruins everything. establish what physical contact is and isn’t cool, etc, etc. you also decide that when the time comes, you’re going to tell his dad that the entire debacle with sarah put so much strain on your relationship that you had to break up. the hope being that chairman han will feel so bad about ruining things for jumin that he won’t try to force him into something like that ever again.

days 6-8:

you have dinner with his dad and answer pretty typical “meeting the parrents” questions. he asks what you guys did for your first date and jumin tells a 100% fake story about taking you to dinner on top of the eiffel tower and kissing you beneath the stars and the chairman is satisfied. that doesn’t mean that glam and sarah are though. they decide to do some sleuthing to prove that you guys aren’t really dating.

this is the fun part where we get to hit most of the beats of ur typical fake dating story! you and jumin get to know each other really well, albeit kind of superficially (favorite foods, fun childhood stories, etc. etc. nothing too heavy yet.) you guys cook together for the first time, cue cg of jumin with like... idk tomato sauce on his cheek or something. you watch a movie together and elizabeth falls asleep on your lap and jumin dies on spot idk

this is also where your first kiss happens, and pretty much in the same way except its much more mutual and he doesn’t look at sarah this time because his focus is on trying to make it look like he doesn’t even care that she’s there because you’re the only thing he cares about. (which.... isn’t actually hard for him to do at all)

chatrooms are pretty typical for this timeframe — you guys all know the drill. the other members are like “wow they seem really close” and speculate on whether or not you guys are actually together. zen is worried that jumin is going to force himself on you (wolves, etc.). yoosung is jealous that jumin gets to hang out with you. jaehee is upset that jumin is neglecting his work.

VAGUE mentions of weird activity on the messenger, but nothing too serious sounding. just enough to make jumin nervous -- esp with sarah and glam on his back still. this is when he locks elizabeth up. 

 day 8, the chairman learns that sugar round is worthless and that glam and sarah have been duping him the whole time. they’re disgraced and are never heard from again so... problem solved but this also means that you and jumin no longer have a reason to stay “together”... and you’re both kind of falling for each other so obviously that’s no good. you spend one last night in the penthouse before resolving to break things off officially in the morning. the other members talk about how sad you guys both seem to be parting.

BAD STORY END 1:

if you shy away at the fake intimate gestures (hand holding, hugging, etc), and pointedly answer incorrectly when asked a question about jumin that you should know the answer to, your ruse fails and you guys are caught faking the relationship. to avoid the scandal breaking to the press, jumin winds up marrying sarah anyways.

the branch point for this one would be right before the kiss scene, if you’re on track for the good end then the kiss happens, if not, you’re forced to shove him away when he goes in for it, revealing to sarah that you guys are frauds.

the cg would be him and sarah at the press release for their engagement announcement. sarah’s all smiles and jumin is... pretty understandably miserable looking. a reporter asks him about the other person he was in a relationship with prior to his engagement to sarah, and he reads off a line about how sarah captivated him like no one else ever could in an emotionless voice.

BAD RELATIONSHIP END 1:

if you do fine during the VN portions, but aren’t active enough in the chats, then the fake relationship plan works, but afterwards its just... really awkward. once the whole mint eye thing ends you’re pretty much just excommunicated from the rfa since you... didn’t really seem to like them all that much.

day 9:

a huge attack on the messenger happens, coupled with explicit threats directed at mc, sending everyone into such a panic that ending your fake relationship is the last thing on anyones mind. jumin is so fucking scared that he’s going to lose you, and muses in the chatroom about why he’s more scared for your safety than he would be if it were, say, yoosung being threatened (cue yoosung’s crying emoji lmao). everyone else is like “well clearly its because you’re in love with them”

anyways. they decide its for the best if you continue to stay at the penthouse and in spite of everything, you’re both... kind of relieved lol. 

everything is all fine and dandy until elizabeth III runs away, ramping jumins anxiety up to 11 like... right away

this is where we really start to see behavior more along the lines of what happens in his route, you suggest the two of you leave and search for elizabeth, and he refuses to let you go, etc. etc. 

it sort of turns into a fight, but it all works out in the end. he tells you about rika and elizabeth and why she means so much to him, and you guys talk about how fear of losing someone important to him can’t rule his life, and that its one thing to be careful, but another entirely to try to control someone else’s behavior because of fear. 

you convince him to get some sleep, assuring him that elizabeth will turn up soon and that he’s going to be alright. you guys fall asleep next to eachother without even thinking about it. its not until jumin mentions something about waking up next to you in the chat the next day that the rest of the gang is like “uhhhh,,,, why are you guys still sharing a bed”

MEANWHILE lol seven and yoosung arrive at mint eye and find elizabeth, just like what happens in canon. they decide to bring her back tomorrow.

BAD STORY END 2:

obligatory mint eye ending. if you’re too aggressive and forward with jumin and don’t give him time to properly process his feelings, he doesn’t offer to let you stay at the penthouse, relying on seven’s assurance that the apartment is totally secure (it’s not). saeran breaks in and takes you away.

this branch happens pretty early in the day, before elizabeth escapes.

i thought about a cg for this one but tbh... there are so many saeran and mc at mint eye BE cgs that idk what i could come up with that wouldn’t be super derivative lol

BAD RELATIONSHIP END 2:

again, because you’re only talking to jumin and not the rest of the rfa, he assumes that you don’t like being in the rfa very much BUT he still likes you... a lot and is very worried about your safety re: hacker, AND because he still hasn’t really dealt with his issues regarding v/rika/emotions, you guys decide to just straight up leave lol. you move to a different country where he can pretty much continue doing his work remotely while keeping you safe.

the cg for this one is the two of you in a different cushy apartment somewhere. you’re making dinner while he works. its... stable, but noticeably stiff. neither of you are talking much and his dialogue is pretty stilted. its pretty clear that he regrets abandoning his friends and is unhappy.

day 10:

3AM chat with zen where he speaks entirely in thinly veiled hypotheticals about you guys. (“well, if i thought i could have a shot with someone i really loved, i think i would take that chance and tell them, even if i might get shot down. and even if that person was a huge ass who my sexy white-haired best friend hated. i would tell them how i felt”)

seven secures the messenger again and the threat is declared neutralized! you’re safe to go home but neither you nor jumin want that at all.

yoosung brings elizabeth back around 9, and it proceeds pretty similarly to what happens in his route: he’s wary about taking her back because he feels that he’s mistreated her, you’re like “whoa buddy you’re going too far in the opposite direction here” and you and v have to convince hm that its going to be okay. the only real difference is that v doesnt also have to convince him to let you go. he just says something about how the two of you seem to bring out the best in each other, and that jumin is brighter when you’re around. 

later, jumin (tries) to make you lunch using the cooking skills you taught him a few days ago as a final payment (since you refused actual money) for all of your help, both with his father and with elizabeth, but he winds up ordering in instead. its very cute BUT its super awkward because neither of you has said anything about not wanting to leave.

finally you have to face the music and pack your bags. you hug jumin goodbye and make him promise to still get lunch with you sometime before heading back to rika’s apartment sadly.

everyone is like “yo what the fuck???” and its actually yoosung of all people who is finally like “this is ridiculous. you two clearly have feelings for each other and you need to deal with it” 

jumin is absent from most of the chatrooms for the rest of the day  though, so he doesn’t really see anything until he forces himself to log on later that night and is like “oh”

and YES of course this is going to culminate in a typical romcom scene where he has driver kim race to the apartment so he can pound on the door and apologize to you and tell you how he feels!! maybe it even happens in the rain just to maximize romance. the important thing here is that you finally kiss him for real this time and its perfect.

BAD STORY END 3:

pretty much jumin’s BE2, if you werent assertive enough with him re: his possession/control issues on day 9, he never gets over them. when elizabeth is returned he locks her back up and insists that you continue to stay with him as well, canon BE2 ensues.

i gotta hand it to cheritz. its a really good bad ending and theres not much i wanna change about it. its so scary in a calm sort of way, which i think is the perfect vibe for a dangerously unhealthy jumin. if only people would stop fetishizing it lolol

party (GE ver):

you and jumin mingle with the guests and the other members for a bit, but as the evening goes on, jumin gets restless. he pulls you aside and tells you that, while you did a wonderful job planning the party, he can’t help but regret that your guys’ first

date is technically a work function. especially when the fake first date you told his father was so perfect. he then decides that the two of you have been there long enough to fulfill your obligations, and that no one could really begrudge you if you “took off” a little early. you guys fly to paris that night and have that dinner on top of the eiffel tower.

the ending cg isn’t a kiss one, but a more simple, sweet one of the two of you in a dimly lit restaurant, jumin listening to you talk with the most tender, loving look in his eyes.

party (NE ver):

you and jumin mingle with the guests and the other members for a bit, but as the evening goes on, jumin gets restless. he pulls you aside and tells you that, while you did a wonderful job planning the party, he can’t help but regret that your guys’ first date is technically a work function. especially when the fake first date you told his father was so perfect. he laments the fact that if he was caught shirking responsibilities to take you on a real date, the press would have a field day with it, but promises to make it up to you, and take you out on a proper one tomorrow.

this cg is the two of you dancing at the rfa party, jumin resting his chin on the top of your head and daydreaming out loud about everything the two of you could do on your real first date.

[comicteaparty]

February 8th-February 14th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from February 8th, 2020 to February 14th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question: 

Which of your characters is most like you, and how does the similarity affect how you write them?

Nutty (Court of Roses)

Every one of my main characters in Court of Roses https://courtofroses.spiderforest.com/ has a little piece of me, but Merlow takes a big chunk of me, and/or the person I try to be, in his character. I tend to feel for him a lot and get deep into his emotional highs and lows.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

In Whispers of the Past (https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/whispers-of-the-past/list?title_no=191366), I am actually most similar to my villain, Ryukou, which.... is a bit concerning and also oddly cathartic at the same time. Ryukou, like me, is book smart rather than street smart, just an absolute nerd. He obsesses over details and frequently gets lost in his work (often as a detriment to his health, forgetting to eat and sleep and such). He is a severe overthinker about pretty much everything, and he bottles his emotions inside. He is also asexual and generally has a hard time showing affection. This is to the point where when he finds someone he really cares about, losing them is like losing the one friend he ever had. Pretty much all of these traits are directly inspired by me, which leaves behind an interesting feeling, because even through all of his evil acts, his horrible deeds and unforgivable sins... I still want to redeem him. I don't want to call him "evil," because to do so feels like accepting myself as evil. So I do a lot of labeling him as "troubled" instead of "evil."

Mei

People say that I'm a lot like my character Bruce but with a spattering of Kenneth's sardonic nature. I feel as if I just split myself in two to write them! My friends do joke about Kenneth being the vent for all my frustrations, and honestly... they are not wrong... I do think a lot of my characters have a bit of me in them. Whether it's the sense of humour or the sass, I think it's just a part of the writing process for me. That being said... I love all my lil characters beans and I cherish them and I just want the best for them, even if I sometimes write them into terrible situations... what can I say, I am a terrible parent to my lil characters

DanitheCarutor

Both my main characters have a little bit of me in them. Apollo has some of my music interests, which is old country and 70's - 80's stuff, mostly rock. Julian, even though their interests and general personality are being overshadowed by their mental state right now, they like science and reading. Although their interests aren't exactly like mine, I like geology as well as biological sciences like medical science and zoology, while Julian enjoys biological plant sciences like botany and horticulture. They're not really THAT similar, but I guess I consider them so since it's all nerdy science bs. I do have more than just interests, but I'll put those behind a spoiler since they're generally sensitive topics and also really personal: SPOILER Since my comic is a vent comic, I use my characters are tools to explore my own issues, and see them from a different perspective. I filter a lot of my mental issues through Julian, which is stuff like long-term suicidal depression and self-hate. Not gonna lie, I've been living with urges to die since I was 11, and have been feeling like crap for longer than that. Apollo is loosely in a position of a kid seeing a parent in an abusive relationship, having that feeling of being powerless and not knowing what to do, although he doesn't take notice of the situation till the end of chapter 5/beginning of chapter 6. (Although it can also extend to the friend or non-child relative, 3rd party type affected by the situation. I've been in that position as well...) Also later on living with a person who has PTSD and other serious psychological issues. Being a person who was raised by a parent with PTSD and anxiety due to an abusive ex-husband, it quite an experience, especially since neither of us were educated in the slightest on mental health. (I was a child, so you know, I didn't really know better.) In my teens she married a guy who was all emotional abuse, so that's where the "helpless kid" stuff comes from.(edited) END SPOILER

DanitheCarutor

Even though people who know me who've seen the comic think it's a bad idea, working on it actually been super cathartic. It puts to paper emotions and experiences that I have a lot of trouble putting into words, while also letting me see "myself" from a different perspective. Also with how dedicated I've been to researching for this comic I have explored a lot of the good sides to mental health, good coping mechanisms, and general self-care. Which later on becomes the main focus in the story. So my comic has been really nice for me. You can say I'm personally invested in seeing it through till the end.

Lol you know, the more I post on the more I feel like I just make everything uncomfortable. Uh, just kick me from the server if you all feel like I'm ruining the mood, I'll totally understand! xD

keii4ii

It's totally fine as far as I'm concerned! I just hope you're not feeling too uncomfortable

DanitheCarutor

I see stuff like this as me just using myself as an explanation or example for the nature of my comic, the focus isn't really on me specifically so it feels less awkward. It feels more technical and less personal, even though the subject matter is super personal... if that makes any sense.(edited)

So yeah, I'm good!

DanitheCarutor

Er, better explanation: It's easier to talk about personal stuff when it's for my comic than when it's for me. Sorry, my wording was bothering me.

kayotics

I mean, you're not the only one to use comics or characters as a way to deal with things emotionally. I've absolutely done that before. Both Toivo and Rosemary in Ingress Adventuring Company (https://www.ingress-comic.com/) are inspired a lot from me and my own experiences. Rosemary is modeled after me as a teenager: irritable, a know it all, annoyed, and then has a single parent who she has a very hard time relating to because of how different emotionally they are. Toivo is inspired in a different way. He has traits that I wish I had (like emotional vulnerability and cheerfulness), and faces problems that were inspired by events in my life. both of them seem to actually share a lot of the flaws that I have, just manifested in different ways.

DanitheCarutor

Pff I mean making people uncomfortable by going into detail about it. Usually I'm more vague, or don't bring up personal stuff, but it's behind a spoiler so eh.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The nature of the question itself is to be personal, considering we're talking about how similar we are to our characters.

I have similarities to one of my other characters as well, but I decided not to talk about it because I'm still working through my issues atm The fact that you're able to talk about these sensitive topics means that you've made a lot of progress.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I personally put bits of myself into my characters deliberately, because it makes it easier to write them in a way that feels authentic to my own experience and feelings (the only first hand references I have for reality)

DanitheCarutor

@Cronaj (Whispers of the Past) It helps a lot that my previous job had an on-site Psychologist who I used to talk to. Before she moved out of state she helped me through a board interview, and got me in the mindset to be open about discussing mental health issues. Although I don't usually talk about my own issues since most of them are self-diagnosed, and saying I have that stuff for sure doesn't feel right, when the Psychologist was around we really only got around to diagnosing and tackling my social anxiety.

It's funny because a lot of our discussions were me asking her about the nature of her work, along with experiences she had with patients since therapy and stuff like that is a large part of the later part of my comic.

But back on topic, poor Julian gets the brunt of my issues, poor thing! Poor comic characters, they deal with so much shit. Lmao!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Indeed they do.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

It's not well-hidden that Phantomarine's (http://www.phantomarine.com/) main character Phaedra is extremely similar to me But over time, she's become less of a carbon copy, and more of a critique/exploration of myself when I was younger. Partly just because the comic has gone on for almost five years now - she's remained locked in time, while I've gained clearer hindsight as to who I was at 19. At my best, I was caring, empathetic, hard-working, and thoughtful - at my worst, I was stubborn, stiff, quick to judge, slow to change, and mightily self-righteous. But when some bad life events happened, I was forced to mature in unexpected ways. I wanted to channel that same energy for Phaedra. She's strong in her convictions - but maybe a bit too strong.

Her journey doesn't involve a total invalidation of her convictions, but more of a broadening. Someone inflexible becoming more willing to question her beliefs in the event of new knowledge. Especially with the threat of death/erasure on the line. It's my greatest critique of my younger self - not something I outright hate in retrospect, but something I needed to work on. Phaedra both annoys me and stirs up great pity in me. I think that's a healthy and relatable combination for a teenager/young-adult.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

In terms of, like, her backstory, and how her life unfolds in general, Mizuki is basically nothing like me. But in terms of dialogue... Mizuki talks exactly how I talk in real life.

Tuyetnhi

a lot of folks asked me if Cara is a self-insert when I explicitly states she's kind of an experience between me and my mom's relationship with each other. Though she has some personality from me, that's the same goes with everyone else I create for my comics or written stories.

idk it might just an inherent thing I recognize

twothirty

Like most people have mentioned all my characters in Verse (http://versecomic.com/) have parts of me in them, it's the only way i can write them in a believable way. But if i had to pick just 1, it's definitely Fife. Just 100% anxiety, a constant inner dialogue of self-doubt, and my own nervous tics like playing with hair and picking at nails. It makes writing how he handles problems kind of weird, because I get a bit too much in my own head with it.

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I can relate with all my characters in some way and definitely throw some of my own culture and experiences in mental illness into them. I feel like I'm able to write those things in better and make them feel more natural because I know what it's really like and how I would be responding to a situation. There's also one character I'm about to introduce (in an update for tomorrow or Monday) who's kind of like how I was as a child.

Capitania do Azar

I feel like I'm just going to repeat a lot of the replies I see here by saying I sprinkled a lot of traits and issues through the characters so I can see them interact and figure things out I don't think there's one of them that gets more than the others though. And it's usually really small things here and there, nothing too big because that would ruin the purpose of trying to have my characters being their own persons

Tuyetnhi

yep, i agree on that

renieplayerone

same here, I kinda spread out between a bunch of different characters. I really wanted to be deliberate in not having a self-insert character while still being able to talk about things I've experienced. I think for me what helped was figuring out what werent things I related to about these characters and went out and talked to people who did have that experience

DanitheCarutor

I dunno, I think it's all in what kind of people... creatures you make your characters. Like, I only have the two and really give Julian the majority of my personal stuff, to where they can superficially be a carbon copy of myself. Although overall their background, personality and how they deal with issues are different. You can put a lot of yourself into one character but it's all in how you have them handle those traits, coupled with what kind of personality they have, and where they come from that makes them their own person, so to speak. People are complicated, you can put a group who share the same interests through the same scenario, and how they react or what they take away from that experience will always be a little different.

Urg, sorry if I'm coming off rude, or stating the obvious!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

You know, I was thinking, "none of my characters are like me," but then @snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights) 's comment made me remember that, wait, they do sort of talk like me. I don't really like it. Especially when I catch them using words that I use too often, like "just" and "actually." It doesn't help that my friends have said that I have a very "particular way of speaking," whatever that means. How do you guys prevent that kind of thing? Obviously my natural instinct when writing dialogue is to write in my own voice. It feels unnatural to go against that.

keii4ii

One tool you can use is to model a character after someone else. This doesn't really show in my comic, as it's in English only these days, but the characters canonically talk in Korean most of the time. The MC is not fluent in Korean. I modeled his speech after two Korean-American dudes I know IRL, who are not fluent in the language. He doesn't talk exactly like them, as they have very different personalities, but knowing the exact level of brokenness (as in broken Korean) helped a lot back when I was writing the comic in Korean.

Tuyetnhi

I sometimes caught that too with my characters. I try to think of the type of vocabulary they'll use to speak. also what keii said too. I have a handful of characters based on people I knew, and experiences I had in the past as well.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Luckily, my my comic takes place in a much "older" setting, so none of my characters really speak like me. The language is so dated at times that you would have a hard time comparing it to my style of talking at all. Actually.... I do have ONE character who speaks like me. But he's also a 4th wall breaker.

Tuyetnhi

we love characters like that lol

carcarchu

My verbal ticks definitely slip into my characters's dialogue but some of my characters have super wacky speech styles such as the character who only speaks in haiku and the one that only talks in kaomojis so that helps to differentiate them

Deo101 [Millennium]

I give everyone an accent and then just by trying to read it in that accent it kind of loses my voice in that process

DanitheCarutor

To add onto what Keii said, depending on the language, the person who isn't a native speaker may also speak more formally. I used to work in a squadron with a bunch of Dutch pilots, and while their English was exceptional, some of them never used word shortcuts like 'they're' or 'you're' but would instead say 'they are' or 'you are'. Their English was very proper compared to people who were native to the language. You can also base a character's speech off their education level. Like a person who isn't well versed in their grammar, or has a limited vocabulary is going to have related issues while speaking. You can also akin this to how they were raised, if their parents had a specific speech pattern, or they grew up in an area where everyone spoke a certain way they might as well. They might also use different words, such as when I lived in Ohio for a bit I noticed how most people referred to soda as pop, and said words like creek (crick) or pond. As opposed to where I grew up, Arizona, where I rarely heard those specific words being used. Especially creek and pond since we don't have an abundance of natural bodies of water, we usually call everything rivers or lakes regardless of size.(edited)

Uh, to answer more directly. I usually figure in the character's education level, upbringing, and location. For example one of my MCs is a hardcore hick, and doesn't like reading or learning in general, so his speech is very simple and not always grammatically correct. As opposed to my other MC who isn't a native English speaker but put a lot of effort into learning the language, is a very technical person, and worked really hard to hide their accent. Even though they do use shortcuts, their speech is more proper and they use a larger vocabulary because they like reading. They also cuss a hell of a lot more than the other MC because they're extremely salty.(edited)

kayotics

Getting a character's voice right is really hard, honestly. What I have to do when writing dialogue is ask myself "Is this in the character's voice?" dialogue is my favorite thing to write, but it's hard to remember to keep in a specific voice. Sometimes i go back a few times in the dialogue to tweak it so there's the right words being used, and the right sentence structure. It's always a battle between how to say something in the most concise way on the page, but still keeping in the right character voice. Like Dani above me said, there's a lot that goes into figuring out a voice, like education level and upbringing and localisms. I just ask myself "ok, how does this character speak? He feels like he's dumb and he wants to make himself sound smart, so he might use words that are too big here" Eventually with each character I figure out what they're like, but for side characters I try to pick a quirk so they don't all mesh together.

DanitheCarutor

@kayotics Aah! The best thing is when that dumb character uses the wrong big words. "Ah yes sir, I love your work! Your brush strokes are very circumlocution."

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

See, I have a dumb character who knows he's dumb, so he just doesn't talk if he thinks he doesn't know what he's talking about

Which is quite often

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I have a very specific tone I use in my comic & I honestly find it harder to avoid slipping into that tone when writing normal stuff than slipping into my own voice writing the comic

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

you do have a very specific tone, sssfrs. Big part of why I read your comic(edited)

I like and agree with kayotics and dani's advice to try to put myself in the character's mind.

Problem is, most of my main characters have similar education levels and grew up in the same place. I mean, there's a reason they're friends.

But that's kind of an excuse, now that I think about it. I've never met two real people with the same voice, even if they're superficially similar. It's probably just a matter of effort differentiating fictional characters.(edited)

Capitania do Azar

How dialog is structured is a great way to show the relationship between the different interacting characters I have two characters who are interested in each other but don't know each other very well and are constantly tiptoeing between using closer pronouns and first names or going back to formal speech and last names/ranks when they feel they're not getting their way. Similarly, a character may speak only in very short, concise sentences to one and be more expressive and take up more words with another. And don't get me started in the weight of silence

AntiBunny

I originally said Hannibal is the most like me in http://AntiBunny.net/ but he and I have grown in different ways since the comic began. Though much of the main cast has bits and pieces of my personality.

sagaholmgaard

I feel like I'm the most like Styrka, mind-wise. I gave her all my anxieties and she's the way I feel like I'd act if I weren't also lucky enough to be in a very positive place in my life, lol. She's the easiest for me to write at least, because I feel like I have the best understanding of her mind out of all the characters. (Behavior-wise, though, I'm more like Albus. I try to be positive if I can!) https://tapas.io/series/_Reclaim_

[airlock]

airlock grades the Punchable archetype

so far, a majority of the Fire Emblem villains I’ve covered in this series are the sort who are meant to be liked, forgiven, sympathized with... these here are not those ones. these are the ones whose singular purpose in the narrative is to piss you the hell off. so, which of them played that role to excellence?

(do note: under cut are spoilers for… everything, and also a significant amount of me criticizing or blamming characters that you might- okay, yeah, no, you probably don’t like anybody on this list, but you may still strongly disagree with my opinions of them. you’ve been warned! ha, no way these fools would set about reading the whole post now... what!? impossible!)

a foreword

so, to be very specific, I’m not rating every flatly irritating miniboss here; the definitive aspect here is that the character has to be a recurring one, whose extended screentime never quite ends up giving them a chance to be something other than vile. but more important than the hair-splitting here is giving some consideration to how exactly I’ll be doing the rating; after all, I’m not supposed to like any of these people, but there’s still better and worse ways to be despicable as a character.

I’m running pretty much on two central critteria: is this character entertaining, and is that character satisfying to take down. it’s more important to hit one than to hit both; a character who hits neither is significantly more likely to be a pure waste of bile, however.

without further ado, let’s start gritting those teeth!

fuck this guy

(9/10)

directly enabling the single most badass scene in all of Book II obviously lands you on the upper echelons of this here character type. but that’s just the effect; we should peer into the cause of what makes him work so well!

of the critteria I mentioned, Lang goes for the latter: he’s not only quite satisfying to defeat, it’s also great anytime someone finally talks back to him and puts him in his place. that’s because he’s not the sort of character for whom this sort of thing is a given. a lot of the ones we’ll see ahead of him are incompetent toadies on top of being amoral, but not this guy; he knows exactly what he’s doing, relying on the backing of the most powerful nation in the continent to plunder, raze, and oppress to his heart’s content. the business of doing something about this dipshit gets severely delayed by the dire consequences of crossing him -- until Marth finally decides that enough is enough.

and THEN Jagen tells him to meet him 9 PM at the Grustian denny’s parking lot for an old man brawl-

fuck this chin

(3/10)

I struggle to understand ol’ Kaga’s obssession with jealousy as a villainous character motivation, I really do. it’s one entirely realistic thing to envy someone for having riches, fame, status, influence, the attention of one’s crush, or other such things that are more or less objective and palpable. it’s also entirely a thing to have an inferiority complex and fear or spite people one perceives as being more talented, better looking, stronger, smarter than oneself. but the way these characters are written tends to come across like they’re furious because they’re underwritten gonk and not everyone else is.

... which hey, would be a pretty upsetting thing if it happened to a real person, but I don’t think meta-commentary is the point here, is it? I sincerely hope it isn’t...

fuck this lady

(7/10)

the second leg of Genealogy of the Holy War finds you facing the same sorts of enemies most of the time: half of them are Satanists, and the other half are unfortunate innocents trapped in the crossfire of courtly intrigue. it’s exactly because of this that the arc desperately needs a villain like Hilda.

Hilda is just someone who doesn’t particularly mind if the most effective path up the social ladder involves destroying her relatives, daughter included, or capturing children and forcing them into murder tournaments. how is the imperial machinery of tragedy and death supposed to run without someone like her cranking a couple of the levers? er, I mean, you don’t really crank levers unless you’re doing something weird, but... okay, moving on

amidst all of the battles you might struggle to feel were worth fighting, Hilda here serves as a reminder, as a face of every reason why the Empire is the enemy and must be defeated.

and yes, making Tinny kill her rocks

fuck this guy IN AMERICA

(2.5/10)

not too long ago I would have dropped him a straight zero, but I’ve recently been reading through the Project Exile text dumps for a new Thracia 776 fanslation and what can I say, they put good work into making him tick properly and I essentially have no choice but to keep that sort of thing in consideration when making the ratings, being that all of the other villains are also characters I only have indirect contact with through a translation that may have improved or worsened things.

but the good work is no miracle -- although given much-needed entertainment value, this guy is still who he is: practically a standard-fare asshole miniboss who ends up getting three whole chapters to chirp into. and to make matters worse, you only actually get the payoff to him in one of two possible routes!

I am strong, I am clever, I am handsome, and most importantly, fuck me

(4/10)

I can’t possibly deny that his antics are some of the most hilarious on this list; the ridiculous speeches, the facial expressions from the manga, the fact that he gets demoted on screen... and I mean, they got Kaiji Tang to put voice to his high drama on Heroes, on top of it all!

alas, it just really spoils the fun to a significant extent that his very introduction in Binding Blade sees him macking on a captive prepubescent girl. however entertaining it may be that she snatches his wig on that occasion anyway.

fuck this morph

(5/10)

yeah, some people wish. notably including Brendan Reed-

the thing with Sonia is that she’s a little less believable than most folks in this archetype -- specifically because she’s not, like, working within the structures of power that would let her get away with being as much of a dip as she wants to; she’s earned her influential position by seducing the boss, which is hard to buy when, however attractive she may be, she never has a single positive interaction with anyone and nobody trusts her (barring Ursula on both counts, but she’s not the one who needs to be brought on board anyway). I realize what a phenomenon it is to think with one’s dick, but come on; surely, you don’t let your new friend with benefits tell you how to do your job just because she’s that good in bed or something.

that said, although her overall spot on the plot feels weakly implemented, she still makes for a tremendous bulwark to overcome specifically within Nino’s subplot. what a powerful confrontation against a lifelong abuser she provides in the end!

do not fuck this guy what is wrong with you

(3/10)

Valter is just uncomfortable as a character, which is limbo as far as emotion-inducing goes; it’s not particularly entertaining, and nor is it artfully terrifying in the way that Orson is. furthermore, I normally praise Sacred Stones’s antagonists for averting the way of behaving like a plot device, but this guy is the exception; he seems to primarily show up to cause trouble because trouble needs to be caused.

I feel like he’d have made for a far stronger character concept if his backstory had been handled differently, being more specific in what part of his mind broke when he held the cursed lance, instead of just being “now he does bad things and talks like he’s vaguely horny throughout”.

at least he’s quite a bit entertaining in Heroes where he gets voiced lines and no particular characters or plots to interact with -- but if that’s what it takes to make the character shine, it doesn’t really say good things about him.

fuck beauty

(5.5/10)

so, the truth come out: does this guy is deserve becoming the absolute teacher’s pet he’s been since Radiant Dawn? my verdict on the matter is: not really.

I mean, Path of Radiance actually writes him into a solid niche; for all the big words he emits about being a patron of beauty, he’s ultimately just the same kind of petty, ostentatious garbage that poisons the governance of Begnion, and finally taking him down for good and all makes for an excellent dive after all the work it takes to set the light of justice on him -- not just in Day Breaks (oh gooooooooddd) but over the course of the several chapters it takes.

it’s all downhill from there, though. his appareance in Radiant Dawn is not only unecessary, but also a deviation from the established writing to focus on pallid, ineffective jokes, like someone invented Heroes writing before the thing itself happened. he fights on your side because now he genuinely cares about beauty and art to the point he’ll fight a goddess over it? yeah, that’s not who he was.

and seriously, one strongly gets the impression that, in that appearance onwards, the punchline is just supposed to be that he’s fat, bald, wordy, and has a shitty mustache -- which, besides being blatant fatphobia, is seriously stale; “it’s funny because he’s ugly” is, like, at least two random minibosses per game, usually more.

fuck the senate

(2/10)

although he jabs a lot of the buttons that should make for an entertaining and stalwart hate sink, it ends up not really working.

his narcisism lacks the performatic grandeur of the likes of Narcian; it lands as pastiche at best, and common annoying smugness at worst. and although he’s powerful and influential enough to cause a bunch of problems, he’s introduced at a weird time that fails to make his specfic capabilties relevant to opposing the protagonists, and he ends up not doing a lot more than severely inconveniencing Zelgius (who is on his team) a couple times.

at least, the battle dialogue against him in Part 4 still provides some of the most fierce drags in Radiant Dawn

fuck the valm arc

(0/10)

seriously, fuck it

but ahem, onto the guy in question: he’s an annoying waste of writing space that doesn’t seem to be intended for any reason other than making the rest of Team Bad Guy look good, plain and simple.

you might be thinking, airlock, this is the third Awakening villain you blammed in four posts, are you just biased? the answer is: yes, but even if I were being perfectly fair, let’s be real, antagonists are just not one of that game’s strengths, overall. that just happens sometimes; I can really say the same thing of like Thracia 776, y’know?

fuck playing f- yeah, okay, that’s just low-hanging fruit

(??/10)

honestly, from this distance, none of Fates’s fixed antagonists bar Anankos really give me the impression of not just being despicable pastiche, but I’m guessing he’s supposed to be the one who actually intended to take it as a niche?

so, I’m just going to assume you hated this, but how was it? are you glad it’s over, or do you regret having read it at all? we’re probably not going to be spared from one of these characters on Three Houses, but specifically how much would you like to hate the one that comes along? to be honest, your thoughts aren’t remotely as good as mine, so I wouldn’t bother replying or reblogging to share them, worm. what? you’ll do it anyway!? how dare you! do you know what I’m capable of!?

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

Persona 5 Problems: “Goro can’t escape Shido” doesn’t make sense

Might be a pt 1. But before I get into it, what I mean here is “Goro can’t escape Shido” doesn’t makes sense in the context of the characters interactions that we see nor the rules or the world we see in Persona 5.” 

I probably could title this as “Atlus doesn’t know how to utilize it’s Metaverse and everything around it is shit pt 1: In relation to Goro” but that’d be too long, and it gives you more insight on what’s in store. 8U

Also this isn’t to rag on Goro, but the failure of the writing with P5. I mean I hate Goro, partially for his writing partially for how I think he’s a jerk and not in a fun way (cause I do like characters who are jerks but he just doesn’t jive with me)....this for full transparency (esp if you are new). 8U That being said I wont’ tag it as Goro cause I’m not a jerk, I’ll tag it as anti I guess but...........yeah in retrospect after typing this I do kinda take a dump on his writing so anti tag it is. 0u0 

Now why arm I talking about this? Well a new chapter of P5MM came up and.....well this picture appeared:

Now I love Saito, the manga is pretty good, so this is nothing against Saito. My issue is.....I guess the over victimization of Goro esp when it 1) makes no sense and 2) is contradictory.

Now do I think an antagonist that is a victim doesn’t make sense? No. What doesn’t make sense is that P5 doesn’t bother to develop it. P5 throws out the bare minimum of hints all while making NO SENSE how that could work. So fans have to fill in the blanks, and that’s either making him more sympathetic or like me who’s either deciding to start master blasting holes everywhere or is ready to throw this suit case out all together.

I know a lot of fans, and adaptations (such as this) kinda lean towards making Goro more sympathetic. I DON’T BLAME THEM. Like I said, there’s a lot of holes to fill in. And one of them is his relationship with Shido, something VERY crucial to the plot and is.....glossed over with like a few min worth of dialogue. 

Anyway what am I getting at? The issue that annoys me a lot, and that was shown in this picture that hair-triggered me into wanting to write this, was the fact “Goro is being controlled by Shido/Goro has no power and Shido has his claws into him/Goro can’t escape Shido.” As seen in the pictured above, you see Goro has hands to his throat and Shido has an overwhelming presence. Goro is trapped by Shido. And a lot of people will agree with this. It’s understandable because the game half assidly will say things like “you know what happens to people who defy me!” and basically threatening Goro’s life. EXCEPT IT’S ALL BULLSHIT!

“Woah that’s a little extreme what do you mean?” I mean it, Goro is not being controlled by Shido. It’s annoying P5 even INSINUATES that possibility in its writing! It makes no sense for Goro to be the powerless one here, not with the game we were given. And it’s amazing this wasn’t caught in the writers room. This is how that scene should’ve gone down given what we know:

Shido: You know what happens to people who oppose me! Goro: Yeah motherfucker, you send me! What do you want me do? Kill myself? What are you a 14 year old troll on the internet? Do you want me to kill you for threatening me-you scrotum looking asshole? 

Just freaking think about it, Shido or his confidants want a breakdown? Send Goro. They want a shutdown or to possibly kill someone? Send Goro. What the fudge is Shido doing threatening the guy who does his dirty work? Is he gonna kill him himself? No. Shido is a gd moron.

“But what about the cleaner guy?” Great question! And here’s my answer! What about him? No seriously what could anyone but the PT or a god do to Goro? Nothing. 

“But how is that nothing?!” Easy, Goro can take him out, breakdown or shutdown, before he could hurt Goro. If Shido sic’d anyone on Goro, Goro could easily take down Shido, the cleaner, and anyone related to either who know they should take Goro down. All thanks to the Metaverse. And because of that “Goro is trapped by Shido because he’s threatening Goro with death” is such a BS excuse by the game. 

“But what about Shido’s knowledge of the Metaverse? Didn’t he say he could utilize it?” Yeah what about it? The game doesn’t showcase HIM using the Metaverse. He always sends Goro. Which is REALLY FREAKING WEIRD considering he still acts this way, knowing full well Goro is missing. Like how are you going to do it Shido???? 1) you need an app first and foremost, 2) you’ll need a Persona or else you’ll get rekt’d! YOUR LOGIC MAKES NO SENSE! And him knowing about how the Meteverse works is just bs plot device so that we can shoo away how he could believe Goro in the first place let’s be honest.

The only people who use the Metaverse that we don’t know how they got there was the SWAT team that busted the MC, and while not explained it’s possible Goro had something to do with it (either giving someone his phone, since multiple people can go in with just one phone). That’s the only thing that makes sense, since only app users (aka PT+Goro) can got to that world. Tho the cut content seem to indicate even the police don’t know:

And it seems that you only get the app if you have a Persona (minus Goro, MC, and Futaba), cause that’s what Yadly wants:

(btw Ryu’s first pic is pre awakening and the 2nd is post awakening, Futaba’s the only one to get her’s before her Persona with the exception of Goro/MC, but Yadly must’ve thought she was useful or some shit judging by his dialogue early on in the game XP)

But yeah, bringing this up because it’s relevant to know who can and who can’t use the Metaverse. Goro CAN. Shido/Shido’s confidants CANNOT. Goro has the advantage. Shido does not. Goro holds all the cards. Shido’s a gd moron.

As for how Goro could end Shido and his Confidants. If for some reason Goro doesn’t know some of Shido’s confidants JUST BY WORKING WITH THEM, then he can find out through Shido’s Palace. Shido’s Palace literally contains every single one of his CoOps in Cognition form. Which means he probably knows their name, and all Goro really needs is a name cause that’s the hard part. Once he interrogates all the Cognitions and Shadow Shido, he takes Shadow Shido out, go after the real CoOps’ shadow, interrogates them (plus cognitions if they have a palace), and work his way down the latter until know one is after him. He can also squat in the Metaverse if for some reason the heat is really on him, and what’s the worse that could happen? They get pulled in with him? Well that’s bad....FOR THEM! Cause Goro has more powers there, his Persona, he’s stronger and more durable. There’s really no losing here.

So again, one last time. “SHIDO’S THREATS ON GORO’S LIFE MAKES NO SENSE BECAUSE GORO HAS THE POWER TO END SHIDO NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!”

“Well what about his strangle on giving Goro affection?” Ok, ngl....been awhile....but I legit have NO RECOLLECTION of Goro or Shido showing any possible fatherly affection. I feel like I’ve seen more of the fans make this argument then the game. If the game did then it was just....such a throwaway line, and it’s a classic “P5 tell don’t show” move. Coupled with how contradictory the writing is with the way the story is built (like show literally above in how Goro’s life should not be threatened like AT ALL). P5 goes out of its way to show how much Goro HATES Shido and HE CAN’T WAIT TO SEE HIM GO DOWN! That doesn’t seem like someone hesitating cause he wants a hug from daddy. The only reason he waits so long was because he wanted him to be prime minister (or just close to election) and then bring him down from the highest pedestal. THAT’S IT. He has so much more backing that then “I really wanted a daddy figure that gave me pats on the head and told me I was a good boy.” If P5 WAS going for that then they did an even piss poor job than with the issue above. 

And listen, I’m NOT saying that’s not something that couldn’t have happened, I’m saying the writing makes it not really support it or have it make sense. (edit: after typing this I vaguely recalled Shido saying that all Shido had to do was tell Goro he was a good boy and he thought he had him wrapped around his finger-of course this could’ve just been a tumblr post I read that’s how much I remember Shido praising Goro XP, and lkfsd;lakvl;vs this is soooooo batshit all over the place, are you controlling him with fear of death or love???? cause neither are working here bro. Btw at the bottom I go into a route in which this COULD work, but it means dropping the whole fear of death bs argument I made at the very beginning, and even then it’s not Shido actually controlling Goro, it’s him thinking he does.)

And if anyone says “What about destroying his career and social-hood by revealing Goro is a bastard?” And give Goro the platform, the audiences’ full attention for him to be like “YEAH AND GUESS WHO MY DAD IS?! :D” Like, considering Shido figured out Goro was his son, it’d be even more stupid of him to think he could do that when it’d be social suicide for him. As for Goro? That was his plan all along, nothing to lose! Maybe it’s not as high of a fall that he wanted, but he’s still bringing him down!

Now despite this rant, I’m NOT saying Goro isn’t a victim. As a bastard/foster child in Japan, he is a victim for their horrible treatment towards that group. That can’t be argued and in all honesty if it was just that I’d be happy. What I don’t think he is a victim of is Shido, at least beyond the parental abandonment (he is a victim for his dad being horrible and not marrying his mother and stuff like that OBVIOUSLY), by Shido I mean the Conspiracy related stuff. Making it out so that Shido controlled Goro the whole time, that Goro had no agency, that Goro couldn’t oppose him. That’s what I hate. I hate how people make him such a woobie victim when....he very well probably wasn’t. When he made Goro kill, it’d make more sense for Goro to be scared of losing his connection to Shido (aka not being able to monitor him and continue his plan) than be scared Shido might kill him (I mean he had freaking superpowers what the fudge?). But if people looked at it like that then Goro would be more in the wrong no? Choosing to value his goals of revenge over other’s? Maybe he didn’t want to kill but he still CHOSE because his own goals meant more than someone else’s life. But noooooo that would hurt him being a victim right? We need to make it all Shido’s fault! Goro did nothing wrong! Right? So we made it seem like Shido could threaten Goro’s life, make it a kill or be killed situation, even when it made no sense. 

I think Goro could been good, could’ve been complex. A boy who was an abandon bastard son of a politician, mistreated and abused by society until teenhood, suddenly granted the power to get revenge on his father, and going to any lengths, even if it broke his own moral code, because he was that dedicated to bringing down someone? That’s interesting, it’s simple. But “ A boy who was an abandon bastard son of a politician, mistreated and abused by society until teenhood, suddenly granted the power to get revenge on his father, forced to go to any lengths because he ended up in a trap by said father he wants to take down, even if it MIGHT (cause Atlus be chickens and “ambiguous”) be against his own moral code but like he’s being forced by his dad so is it really his fault? That? Fudge that. That’s needlessly confusing, it’s bending itself all out of shape to try to purify this character....and I hate it. 

There’s also the weird contradiction on Shido’s end where it’s like “He’s super paranoid that he kills people, and he doesn’t trust Goro since he plans to kill him, but he trusts him enough for certain things that he doesn’t need to double check on himself even if it poses a threat to him like I dunno checking IF THE GD MC BODY IS DEAD?! >:(” 

I dunno, I just think Goro having the strongest conviction to take down Shido (even killing because he wants to take him down so badly for what he did), with Shido not knowing Goro is his son and actually trusting him (with maybe gaining suspicions later towards the end for plot drama) because he’s so confident he groomed Goro into being his perfect little follower, is just so much more interesting? Goro is still a victim, but he’s not the perfect or “bending the character out of shape” to be perfect victim. He was hurt horribly and chose to deal with it in an....unhealthy way. It also makes the two seem reasonable, Shido thinks he’s in control because he took this starry eyed follower under his wing not because he’s threatening him with violence. Even tho we know Shido isn’t in control, Goro just likes to think he’s in control. 

;tldr: I hate how people (and even Atlus/the game) try to twist Goro into being this perfect victim, all while saying “well he does do bad things but it’s because of Shido!” instead of letting Goro be accountable and have it make logical sense in the game (because the game is a hot garbage mess). 

So yeah this concludes a 5 am rant I started yesterday. 8U 

[fortunatelylori]

Why the Jon/D*any romance doesn’t work (Part 3)

When everyone and their mother has a different take on the same line of text

I must warn you in advance. In this 3rd post in the series (1, 2) we will go down the rabbit hole every woman has found herself in while reading her Tinder messages trying to extract some sort of meaning from a seemingly unrelated string of emojis.

Yes, boys and girls, now is the time to try and answer the all-important question that has plagued womanhood since the beginning of time: What does Jon mean when Jon says words?

Answering this question is extremely difficult since most of what he says can be interpreted in different ways. People have chalked it up to bad writing, rushed storyline and the actor’s limitations but is that really a fair assessment?

When analyzing the Jon/Dany scenes more closely, you begin to realize that they work on multiple levels both plotting wise and emotionally. It’s that both the direction of the scenes as well as the actor’s mannerisms aren’t what people expect them to be in that situation. The writers aren’t doing a bad job at presenting you a generic romance, they’re working overtime to both give you the basic structure of said romance while at the same time subverting every trope that they employ.

When trying to take things at face value and analyze the scenes as romantic in nature, the more I was hit with lines upon lines of dialogue that were vague, banal and impersonal. I started envisioning my scriptwriting editor taking out her red pen and cutting out these lines with notes like: what does that even mean?!? Because no editor in their right mind would’ve let this dialogue and these scenes as they are.

So why were these allowed to be filmed into a production of this level? My explanation for this is that these lines and scenes, while uninspired and unflattering to the character or the actor forced to speak them, do have the advantage of allowing the audience to read whatever they want into them, which they will because of how hotly anticipated this ship was. They’re simply allowing you to get tangled in the web so they can pull the rug from under your feet in season 8.

It might seem like I’m exalting the Ds writing abilities to extraordinary levels. But I’m not. It’s not that brilliant, to be honest. It’s a trick, nothing more. And they do it because they can. No other TV show could get away with inciting a ship this way only to annul everything put on screen later on. No show except Game of Thrones and no other ship except Jonerys. Why? Because Jonerys didn’t need to convince people to root for them, those people were already on board the ship long before Jon and Dany danced the devil’s tango. This has been one of the most hotly anticipated romances in TV history so the scenes only came to enforce what people wanted to see.

So do the writers really have anything to lose by trolling us? It doesn’t matter if Jonerys is real or fake, underdeveloped or the world’s most epic romance., everyone on planet Earth will still be tuning in to see every episode of the next season. If the Ds decide to confirm their fans dreams, then everyone who isn’t onboard will have to shrug off the inconsistencies and move on. If the political!jon theory is revealed in season 8, they will be hailed as the greatest twisters in the history of twisting. Every TV critic will write about it, will publish think pieces and then one day they will stumble on to Tumblr and discover my metas and I will become famous the world over …. Hey, a girl can dream, right?

So, let’s forget for a second that Dany and Jon were the ship that broke the internet and let’s look at the rest of the island scenes keeping in mind both the romance but also the possible subversion of said romance.

Scene 6:

Happy to report that Dany did not ask Jon to bend the knee in this scene.

Yay!

Progress!

Sort of …

There are 3 major things that are wrong with this scene in terms of the romance subplot:

1.       Jon’s reaction to Dany’s temper tantrum.

He looks like he’s about to send her to her room, with no supper. Btw, I hate it when people say that Kit Harrington is a bad actor. He might not be acting out what people want to see but his micro expressions are pretty on point.

Jon isn’t wrong in being frustrated by Dany’s public humiliation of her hand. However, it does undermine the romance, particularly since Jon’s reaction goes unnoticed by Dany. And the whole thing could have been avoided had the people behind the camera simply not shown us his reaction at all. These types of reaction shots are not filmed simultaneously with the rest of the scene so it’s actually a lot of extra camera work, positioning and actors doing the same scene over and over again just to show us that Jon is annoyed by Dany but chooses not to say anything. And they do this because the script, the blueprint of the story, told them to do it.

Alternatively, you could have these reaction shots take on a positive connotation by having Jon intervene and lecture her on her rudeness, for example. That would position him as the only person willing to tell her the truth, another romantic trope that pops up in couplings all the time. But the script doesn’t go there, instead planting this seed of Jon as being duplicitous in his interactions with the woman he’s supposed to have developed feelings for by now.  

Like I said, the writers don’t have a lot of time on their hands. They need to get us all on this ship as quickly as possible; there are only 3 episodes left. And yet they continue to torpedo our trust in this romance at every turn.

1.       Dany turning to Jon for help is unearned.

As we’ve already established they’ve spent the last 5 scenes talking about knee bendings, white walkers and little else. There is no common ground between the two of them that would make this request remotely romantic. So when Dany, out of the blue, decides to ask Jon what she should do, we can’t go: “Oh, look! They trust each other now. They’re a team.” On the contrary, we’re as taken aback by this as Jon is.

2.       He doesn’t actually help her.

The conversation goes like this:

Dany: what do you think I should do?

Jon: Don’t burn people alive.

Dany is moved by his speech, so moved in fact that she doesn’t notice he didn’t actually give her any advice on what to do, just a general rule of thumb on not turning people into torches.

This a pretty blatant subversion of what is a very useful trick writers use to build trust and intimacy in a romantic plot: have one of the partners help the other with a problem that they have.

By writing yet another general, non-committal response from Jon, they’re denying us, the audience, the reason to cheer for this romantic pairing and thus frustrating the momentum needed to credibly build up this relationship.

Scene 7: (or as I like to call it the “there’s a bridge I’d like to sell you” scene)

It doesn’t do this scene any favors that whenever Missandei starts talking about Dany, all I can think is “cult recruiter”.

It’s like she’s heading the welcome parade into Jonestown…

Leaving that disturbing imagery aside, why is this scene so deeply unsatisfying?

In order to answer that, what we really have to ask ourselves is what is the purpose of this scene? There are no useless scenes in scriptwriting. Every scene must serve a part in telling the story.

Is the purpose here to show that Missandei idolizes Dany? It can’t be. We already know that. Is it foreshadowing for Davos moving to Narth because it sounds like a “liberating” place? Doesn’t quite sound right.

It must be a scene that pays service to the Tyrion/Jon scene where Jon is advised to seek out people close to Dany. So the purpose of this scene is to see Jon learning some very positive things about Dany, from her number one fan. This feels like a very natural progression, because we’ve seen this done in stories a million times before. So I think most people will not really look very deep into this scene to really realize why by the end of it, the romantic plot hasn’t advanced at all.

The reason why this scene doesn’t serve its romantic purposel is because  the whole structure of it is wrong.

Let me explain. We start the scene with

Davos: What do you think about her?

Jon: I think she has a good heart.

This line is problematic to begin with because we have seen Dany do nothing that would indicate to Jon that she has a good heart. Since he’s been here, he’s been turned from King to Lord, to simply Jon Snow, he’s seen her humiliate Tyrion, refuse to help him fight the white walkers and develop a troubling bended knee fetish. So what is it that would prompt him to say that?

Well … what is the number one argument that Dany’s fans always bring up when people criticize her? I think it goes along the lines of: But she was doing it for the right reasons. She’s a good person … She has a good heart.

 I think this is the writers at their most trolliest giving people deeply invested in this ship something to cling onto when saying that this romance does actually exist, while simultaneously making people that dislike the ship tremble in their boots a little at the thought that it might be reciprocal.

 And just to make anti-Jonerys’ tremble even more, they double down with this little gem:

Davos: A good heart? I’ve noticed you starring at her good heart.

Yeah … sorry writers, I ain’t tremblin’. I’m a woman. I’ve developed a sixth sense for men checking out a girl’s … wolf bits. It looks a bit like this …

Nice try though!

How does Jon respond to Davos’ appraisal? Does he get flustered that he’s been found out? Does he reject it outright as a vile falsehood?

Jon: There’s no time for that.

And here I must ask again: what do the words that Jon ejects from his mouth mean?!? Does he use the excuse of the white walkers to hide his secret attraction? Does he mean it literally? Is Dany like the Flash, so quick there’s no time to look at her cleavage? Or is he letting out his frustration at having to play out this parody while the world is on the verge of annihilation, as the political!jon theory would support?

 The point is we don’t know. We can claw each other’s eyes out over this all we want. The line is left vague for a reason. We, unlike Jon for once, know nothing.

 Then we get to Missandei’s speech. She’s essentially the Pope of Daenerism. The main message of her speech is

Missandei: My queen has a good heart

Great. So why did we need this scene again?!? So Jon could find out what he already said he knew? Maybe he needed some reinforcement. What was his reaction to Missandei’s ode, you ask?

Can’t read my … can’t read my … nobody can read my poker face …

Followed by the old, faithful romantic classic

Jon: Is that a Greyjoy ship?!?

 So … a 2 min scene of writers trolling and an aerial shot of a ship … and absolutely no progress on the romance front. No wonder this scene is frustrating.

 Humor me for a moment and imagine this scene in a different sequence.Move Missandei’s speech in the beginning and end the scene with Jon saying Dany has a good heart. Eliminate the ship altogether. Doesn’t it feel like a better set-up and make the scene less repetitive and more romantic?

Scene 8:

The first part of this scene is breathtaking. Leaving aside everything else, it’s astounding to see how far television has gotten in terms of what they can present on screen. Everything from the CGI, to the scope of the shot, to the colors, music and scenery is stunning. It’s perhaps the most memorable moment of the entire season. Plot wise, it’s also extremely meaningful.

 Because of the stunning imagery, this has led people to interpret it as romantic in nature. But it isn’t. This is not about the Jon/Dany romance at all, but rather about R+L=J, about Jon himself and his nature. We’ve never seen another person apart from Dany get so close to Drogon before, let alone pet him. And all this is punctuated by Kit Harrington playing Jon as completely overwhelmed. As he should be. He’s doing something that people haven’t been able to do for 300 years and, more importantly than that, he’s doing something that feels strangely familiar to him.

 That’s why all those gif sets showing Jon as completely in awe that imply he’s looking at Dany are so frustrating. Watch this scene again and you’ll see that he’s holding eye contact with Drogon throughout, punctuated even by a close-up of the dragon’s eye looking at Jon. It’s only Dany that looks at him curiously, seeing him interact with her favorite pet/child.

 If you’re going to frame those looks as romantic in nature, you shouldn’t be shipping Jonerys at all but rather … Jonon? Drojon? Can’t decide …

 So, if we eliminate this first part, and concentrate solely on Jon and Dany’s conversation, what happens?

They disagree on whether fire breathing lizards are beautiful, gorgeous, beasts or children.

 Dany: They are not beasts to me. They are my children.

Jon’s face says it all really … (gif courtesy of @thelawyerthatwaspromised)

No resolution is reached on this front. So Jon abruptly changes the subject.

 Like I said in my previous post, romantic couples don’t reach this type of communicational impasses. They duke it out to the end or reach common ground. That’s what makes them work.

 But it gets worse. Not even the awkward transition to another subject leads to anything.

Jon: You weren’t gone long.

Dany: No.

Jon: And?

Dany: And I have fewer enemies today than I did yesterday.

Silence … Very awkward silence … Dany literally has to push the conversation forward and …

Dany: You don’t know how you feel about that

Jon: No, I don’t

…it still doesn’t go anywhere. The writers keep breaking the momentum of their dialogue over and over again and frustrating both Dany and the audience.

Just look at that face. That’s the face I pull every time I come back home from a bad date.

But Dany is a stubborn girl. She tries again, with another awkward change of subject.

Dany: When you first came here, Ser Davos said you took a knife to the heart for your people.

Jon: Ser Davos gets carried away.

This would have been the perfect time for Jon to open up, at least a little bit. He thinks she has a good heart after all, right? But no. He not only avoids the subject, he lies outright. Why? Why would he lie? And more importantly why do the writers want to keep Dany at arm’s length from Jon this far into their relationship?

Dany doesn’t completely believe him but have no fear!

 Luckily the plot intervenes before Jon is forced to answer. Heaven forbid that we get a meaningful conversation between 2 people that are about to have sex a few scenes from now. The less 2 people talk, share their feelings and experiences, the more impactful their romance is. Isn’t that how it goes?

 The introduction of Jorah in this scene is significant because the dreaded competitor for the maiden’s heart is a trope used to excess in romantic plots.

 No matter that the writers haven’t built up enough of a connection between Jon and Dany for us to feel the stakes of introducing this new element into their romance. Finally, now we have the opportunity to see Jon look jealous and feel that his bond to Dany is threatened by someone with whom she shares so much history. Sure he might be standoffish and cryptic when it’s just the two of them but surely he won’t be able to control himself when he sees his lady love hug another man. So what do you say, Jon?

P p p poker face, p p p poker face

Scene 9:

I won’t analyze this entire scene because most of it is not linked to the romantic subplot and also … it’s stupid. The whole hunt plot is stupid and Tyrion should lay off the bottle immediately. It’s affecting his intellectual skills.

 We will resume ourselved to the 3 romantic beats withing the scene.

 So, we start promisingly enough with Jon letting everyone know that Arya and Bran are alive. There’s no context as to why he decided to announce this in front of a room of strangers so read into that what you will. Perhaps he wanted to share the happy news with Dany …

Dany: I’m happy for you

 Silence

 Dany: You don’t look happy.

 Silence

 Perhaps we could tell from his expression?

Lady Gaga ran out of lyrics, you guys … sorry about that …

End of topic. No need to explore this momentous event for Jon or have the opportunity to see him sharing his happiness with the love of his life. That’s what fanfiction is for.

 Then there’s the part when Jorah offers to hunt down a zombie to bring back as trophy for his heart’s desire. This has, of course, prompted people to speculate that Jon decides to go on the hunt in order to one up him in Dany’s eyes. Which is not outlandish, per se. That’s what happens in a love triangle after all.

 However there are two issues with this.

 One - there is absolutely no one in the audience that thought Jon would not go on this hunt since the moment it was proposed. He was Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, he’s the only one in that room who has gone beyond the wall and the only one who has actually fought the army of the dead. Jorah or no Jorah, the scene would have ended with Jon going on the hunt. That sort of undercuts the whole jealousy angle.

 Secondly there’s this peculiar sequence of lines after Jorah says he’ll go:

Jon: The free folk will help us

Davos: They won’t follow Ser Jorah.

 Surely, if jealousy was what the writers were going for, those two lines should have been inversed. That could be construed as an attack on Jorah’s abilities by Jon and could lead to a starring context between the two, right before they’d take their shirts off and duke it out in the rain while Dany watches in rapture from the window.

 Does that sound like a ridiculous, over the top, infantile scenario? Sure … But let’s make one thing very clear. Writers do not introduce romantic triangles into stories because they want to keep it classy. They introduce it so that at some point we can end up here:

The last of the romantic plot in the scene comes right after Jon says he’ll go on the hunt.

Dany: I haven’t given you permission to leave.

This line pulls double duty in terms of plotting. It just does it in the wrong direction. On one hand, it torpedoes the love triangle because Dany clearly doesn’t want to let Jon go while she doesn’t have that many qualms about Jorah potentially freezing to death or getting killed. So with 8 words a triangle that started a scene ago has been turned back to a straight line for the audience. That’s no way to build up tension between your characters.

 The second thing it does is that it shows, once again, just how one sided this whole relationship is. Because Jon is not at all touched by Dany’s concern for his well-being.

 In fact he seems rather annoyed by her attempt.

Jon: With all due respect, your Grace, I don’t need your permission. I am a King.

This has been described as a ‘panty dropping’ line. Except that depending on where your alligencies lie, the interpretation for why it pulverizes underwear is different. People that are invested in this ship say that this is the moment Jon proved himself a good King to Dany. People that reject this ship see it as the moment when Jon regains his agency and status, after being humiliated by not only the queen, but also her servant when denied his rightful title.

 Again, this is a problem. Because you shouldn’t have two contradictory explanations for one line this late in the plot. By this point we should all agree on the basic meaning behind what Jon says, whether we like the pairing or not.

 Also:

Jon: I put my trust in you … a stranger […] Now I’m asking you to trust in a stranger.

 We end this scene with Jon calling the two of them ‘strangers’. It kind of feels like we’ve been through 9 scenes and three episodes of romantic build-up and we have nothing to show for it.

Scene 10:

This scene has been analyzed a lot so I won’t dwell too much on it. The reason why it’s gotten so much interest is because of the ‘look back’ trope.

Jon not looking back is not, in and of itself, a problem. In isolation, it can be seen as a missed opportunity on the writers’ part. Adding the fact that Dany does follow him with her eyes for quite a bit just like the lovely John Thornton does with Margaret Hale in the gif above, does put a blemish on the whole thing.

But then the writers for some reason double down on this motif by having Jorah look back at Dany. And then the camera also includes Jon pointedly NOT looking back.

Look at the boy go … It’s like he’s trying out for the Forest Gump remake. Run, Jon, run!

Once you put all of these elements together in one scene it becomes less of a frustrating lack of romantic fulfillment and more of an intentional message that is very hard to ignore.

But let’s leave that to the side and talk about their last words to each other.

Jon: If I don’t return, at least you won’t have to deal with the King in the North anymore

Dany: I’ve grown used to him

Jon: I wish you good fortune in the wars to come, Your Grace

I’ve already pointed out in my first post of the series how deeply unwise it would be to have Jon say good-bye to Dany by using Mance Rayder’s last words to Stannis if we were to look at this scene in a romantic way.

 It isn’t just the fact that Stannis and Mance were enemies. It’s also problematic because Mance was on his way to being burned alive for not bending the knee. Fire is something that the audience connects to Dany immediately. And what was the main bone of contention for these 2 characters throughout Jon’s stay on the island?

Aside from that, the dynamic between them is exactly the same. Dany’s attempt at warmth and intimacy is flanked by two general, formal statements by Jon, the first of which is actually a bit passive-aggressive if you remember that Dany requested he bend the knee so she could name him Warden of the North.

 Also, this is put in direct contrast with the way Jorah says good-bye to her.

Dany: We should be better at saying farewell by now.

Jorah: Your Grace, I …

Jorah’s line is interrupted by Dany grabbing his hands. This touch elicits such a powerful emotional response from him that he can’t continue his train of thought. He simply bends his head and kisses her hand.

 If you were saying good-bye to someone you love, which one of these two responses would feel more bitter-sweet and romantic? Which one would you like to receive?  

 If you say Jon’s …. Well then:

(source: @dreamofspring)

Thank you guys so much for all your great feed-back and a special thank you to @thelawyerthatwaspromised for supplying me with some of the gifs in this post. They were a life saver. The rest of the gifs and clips also do not belong to me. I picked them up from all over the place so if you recognize your work, let me know and I will add the source below the pic. Thank you!

Also: 

stay tuned for part 4 

[preserving-ferretbrain]

Ten Things I Learned from the Watchmen Movie

by Dan H

Thursday, 12 March 2009

Dan resists the urge to use a variant of “Who Watches the Watchmen” for his title.~

This was going to be a longer article, but I actually don't want to devote any more time to this ass-boring piece of shit.

Here's ten things I learned from watching the Watchmen (damn, I actually can't avoid using that sentence) movie.

1. I never want to see another Zack Snyder movie again. Seriously.

2. The seats in the Odeon are actually not fit for purpose.

3. When you decide not to see a movie because

one of the screenwriters is a smug twat

you should just not see it.

4. When adapting a comic book to the screen you should change the fucking dialogue. Things that look good written down just sound fucking stupid when somebody is trying to say them.

5. TV shows advertise in cinemas, how weird is that?

6. When you are adapting a comic book to the screen you should let the actors fucking move. Movies dudes – the clue is in the name.

7. When you are adapting a comic book to the screen you do not have to leave space in the shot for the speech bubbles.

8. If you get the urge to leave a cinema thirty minutes into the film, you should just leave. Particularly if you know exactly what every fucking scene will be because it does not deviate from the source material in any way.

9. Alan Moore dates really, really badly.

10. The plot of Watchmen doesn't actually make sense.

That's it. That's all the time and energy I can bring myself to expend on this.Themes:

TV & Movies

,

Watchmen

~

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Arthur B

at 09:54 on 2009-03-12On 2: Yes, definitely, they're terrible. There's no leg room, which I suppose is a vice which cinemas will always indulge in, but the lack of fucking

cup holders

is baffling. Do they

enjoy

cleaning up spillages?

On 9: Somewhat agreed. I think the film would have been more timely a few years ago, when people doing terrible things out of the fear of WMDs and Republican Presidents being cacklingly evil would have hit a bit more of a raw nerve. Even then, it would be a victim of the comic's success; pretty much everyone who writes superhero stories since

Watchmen

came out is responding to it, if only in the sense that just about everyone who writes superhero stories has read it and has an opinion (pro- or anti-, mainly pro-) on it. It changed the genre it studied, and therefore immediately became outdated.

I still think

From Hell

is the only Moore book which has a claim to timelessness. Maybe it's the fact that it's ruminating on crimes that were a century old when the book was written in the first place.

10: I think people make more of a big deal out of the plot than it really merits. (Seriously, who cares whether it's a fake alien squid or a fake blue dick that blows the cities up?) It's just a framing device which, IMO, is deliberately over-the-top and stupid because

Watchmen

is a love letter to the superhero genre as well as a critique of it; the meat is in the character studies.

This does not change the fact that people are crying hot buttery tears about the squid not being in the film.

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Wardog

at 10:11 on 2009-03-12Watchmen is a love letter to the superhero genre as well as a critique of it; the meat is in the character studies.

Really? I thought it was about comics?

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Arthur B

at 10:31 on 2009-03-12

Really? I thought it was about comics?

I am mildly confused as to what you mean here but I'll try to answer it.

When

Watchmen

was written the superhero genre consisted of a) comics and b) adaptations from the comics. You didn't have (to my knowledge) anything like

The Incredibles

or

Soon I Will Be Invincible

or

Wild Cards

, where you have original sources for superhero stories which aren't comics.

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Rami

at 10:36 on 2009-03-12What's faintly depressing is that lots of the vaguely interesting and meta things coming out of Watchmen have already been done on film (

even in CG

), and people are still going on about how Revolutionary it is.

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Arthur B

at 10:45 on 2009-03-12

The Incredibles

can't be revolutionary because nobody has their arms cut off with a circular saw.

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Rami

at 10:46 on 2009-03-12Oh yes that's right, it's too family-friendly to be Gritty and Edgy and Totally Making You Look Differently At Life...

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Dan H

at 11:28 on 2009-03-12

It's just a framing device which, IMO, is deliberately over-the-top and stupid because Watchmen is a love letter to the superhero genre as well as a critique of it; the meat is in the character studies.

I dunno, I always thought that the whole "blow up the world to save the world" thing was supposed to be srs bzns. Fake Squid or Fake Blue Guy doesn't really make any difference, but I absolutely don't think it's supposed to be deliberately stupid.

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Arthur B

at 11:39 on 2009-03-12There's a man saying "What do you think I am? Some sort of supervillain?" as he wears a costume straight out of

Flash Gordon

in the middle of his Egyptian-themed fortress in the Antarctic as his genetically engineered lynx pads about, as the climax of an exchange in which he explains precisely how his scientifically ludicrous doomsday weapon fits into his epic scheme to change the world, and you think it's not intentionally silly?

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Dan H

at 11:50 on 2009-03-12I think it's intentionally *bathetic*.

You're missing two really important points, the first one being that the "what do you think I am, some sort of Supervillain" line is *followed* by the revelation that Ozymandias' scheme has actually worked. It's a bait-and-switch, he does the classic Villain speech in full on Villain attire in his Secret Arctic Base, but at the last second it is revealed that he has beaten the genre convention by putting his plan into action before the heroes were ready.

The second point is that Ozymandias' plan actually *works*. He genuinely does bring about world peace, and prevent the annihilation of humanity.

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Arthur B

at 12:02 on 2009-03-12But I think the point of the sequence is not to have a trite "guy who does supervillainous stuff but actually brings about a good thing" ending so much as it is meant to make a statement about the interaction of superheroes and supervillains (and to do that it needs to make sure the heroes are acting like heroes and the "villain" is acting like a wildly over-the-top villain).

The whole deal with the end of Watchmen is that it turns out Adrian was the only person acting proactively all along and everyone else was just reacting to him, just as in superhero comics in general the heroes are eternally reactive and only villains are proactive; it's the villains who are actually hoping to achieve something, and all the heroes ever try to do is get in the way of that.

But at the same time, I think in terms of the actual importance of

Watchmen

as a work the armageddon plot is one of the less significant parts. It's punchy when you read it the first time and it makes an interesting point, but it loses a lot of its impact when you know it's coming and the point it makes is kind of obvious. I liked it the first time I read the comic, but it's not the thing I

re

read the comic for - I reread it because of the character studies.

Put it this way: to my mind, you could swap out the entire armageddon story for some other MacGuffin, and

Watchmen

would still be a great book. But you couldn't lose the character studies without losing the spirit of the work. (It was originally conceived, after all, as a way for Moore to reimagine the various Charlton Comics characters that DC had acquired and introduce them to a modern audience).

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Arthur B

at 14:41 on 2009-03-12Having given the film more thought, I've decided that I'm actually really angry about the soundtrack: whoever picked the songs was the laziest motherfucker in the world, unfailingly picking the most obvious possible choice at any point. "The Times They Are A Changin-'" during an alternate history montage is an example, but I was particularly annoyed by the use of Cohen's "Hallelujah" during a love scene - it's a great song, but hasn't the poor thing been overexposed enough as it is? Let it rest.

The most bizarre aspect of it is that in the scene in question in the comic there's a Billie Holiday track playing in the background they could have happily used, and they'd get to stroke themselves and mutter about how loyal and true they were being to the source material. In fact, there's all sorts of song suggestions in the text which are pretty much ignored, so as well as being obvious, unoriginal, and inappropriate for the period the story is set in, the soundtrack is also incongruous for being the one aspect of the film which isn't striving towards loyalty. It's a small thing but it's really aggravating when you notice it - like if you realise the violinists in a symphony orchestra aren't bothering to play along with everyone else.

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http://fintinobrien.livejournal.com/

at 04:53 on 2009-03-13Point 3: Oh my god, Solid Snake is angry at me!

I like that Hayter talks about the "Snake fans" in the same sentence where he praises "smart" stories. Heehee, Metal Gear Solid is smart now. I must have missed the memo.

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Dan H

at 13:18 on 2009-03-13He's actually talking about Solid Snake from the metal gear series?

To be honest, I couldn't say who *else* he'd be talking about (unless it's the dude from the Simpsons).

To be honest, it was the reference to Rorshach fans that lost me - isn't the whole point of Rorshach that he actually *isn't* cool?

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Arthur B

at 13:23 on 2009-03-13David Hayter is the

English voice for Solid Snake.

Oh look, he's really excited by the idea of making a

Metal Gear Solid

movie! And he wants it made in CGI so he can voice Snake! Suddenly the motives behind his letter become clear...

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Wardog

at 14:52 on 2009-03-13Just when you thought things couldn't get any *worse.*

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Gina Dhawa

at 17:24 on 2009-03-13@10 - I love the thing to bitty pieces and the first time I got to the ending I said "....

wha?

". I think it's a faintly ludicrous plot, but I agree with Arthur that the plot is in fact is deliberately so. Veidt is closer to the superhero mould than anyone else (except Dr Manhattan), he's already "over the top". Not only is he smart enough to be a great traditional supervillain, even his physical feats are set as outstanding in the

Watchmen

universe - that whole thing about actually catching the bullet. This is why I like that they cast Matthew Goode, who looks far too young (not to mention fairly fragile) to be the comic's Adrian, because it brings to life how much larger than life Veidt really is.

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Arthur B

at 18:15 on 2009-03-13Yeah, while Dr Manhattan is the Watchman with the most actual superpowers I think there's a case to be made that Adrian is the closest out of all of them to the superheroes of the Silver Age; he's irritatingly perfect, never really worries about where he's going to get his resources from, pulls cool powers and gadgets out of his arse at a moment's notice and he never, ever, ever doubts himself for a second.

You could almost imagine him having Stan Lee's voice in his head breathlessly narrating all of his actions. DON'T MISS THE NEXT RIP-ROARING INSTALLMENT OF OZYMANDIAS, KING OF KINGS, AS OUR HERCULEAN HIEROPHANT BATTLES THE MUCK-RAKING MILKSOPS AT THE NEW FRONTIERSMAN!

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http://fintinobrien.livejournal.com/

at 04:00 on 2009-03-14

To be honest, it was the reference to Rorshach fans that lost me - isn't the whole point of Rorshach that he actually *isn't* cool?

Considering Hayter's draft for the script had Dreiberg killing Adrian because "it's what Rorschach would have done" I think Hayter missed that point. Actually, the idea that Rorschach is meant to be held up as an inspiration disturbs more than I'd like to go into.

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Wardog

at 10:51 on 2009-03-14God yes - you're absolutely right.

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Arthur B

at 13:10 on 2009-03-14Alan Moore has actually read Hayter's draft of the script - he said it was pretty close to the comic, but he still objected on the grounds that he thinks direct adaptations of comic books are a bad idea on principle. He's also mentioned being worried that Snyder would treat Rorschach as a heroic figure, considering his treatment of

300

; I don't know whether that worry came from reading Hayter's script, but I certainly don't think it would have been alleviated by it.

Still, the actor who plays Rorschach in the film does a good job of coming across as a psychopath, so at least

he

understands.

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Arthur B

at 11:14 on 2009-03-18So, David Hayter wanted everyone to go see

Watchmen

on the second weekend to make sure the film's earnings didn't collapse.

Well, an

approximately 70% drop

is

not really what he was hoping for

. Snake won't be pleased.

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Dan H

at 15:17 on 2009-03-18♪♪ It's ... Schaaaa-denfreude. Making the world a better place to beee.... ♪♪

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Arthur B

at 11:11 on 2009-03-25More schadenfreude:

Watchmen

performed

absolutely miserably

in its third weekend, and there's a growing consensus that, whatever its merits, it's a financial dud.

Of course, this means that Zack Snyder won't be able to find work in Hollywood ever ag

WAIT WHAT THE-

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Arthur B

at 16:13 on 2009-04-27Another dose of schadenfreude:

Watchmen

's

performance in the box office

seems to have been mildly worse than

Batman and Robin

's.

The consensus seems to be it's going to end up making some money on DVD sales, which is a consolation for the studio, but it's not delivered the dizzying return on investment that would have made sinking $100 million into it worthwhile.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 08:34 on 2009-12-19Charitably? I'm inclined to think whoever picked the soundtrack was trying to call attention to the very soundtrackness of it, to pull the readers out of the scene a little bit. The comic book had the Tales form the Black Freighter overlaying the action providing a similar distance/ironic commentary, and also reminded you you were in a comic by doing tricks with the layout in Manhattan's chapters and elsewhere.

I'm not defending it, I think the soundtrack mostly backfires horribly and comes across and cutesy fourth-wall breaking, but that's my guess as to the intending effect.

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Show / Hide Comments -- More in March 2009

[forasecondtherewedwon]

Can I request number 44. “I don’t know why I’m crying” and number 30. “Can I sit here? The other tables are full?” For Sweet Pea. Like the reader has been a rough day and Sweet Pea notices and wants to cheer her up. But you can write whatever you would like, just an idea 😬

Thanks for the request! I tried to steer the thing in that direction, though it took a detour through many a Broadway musical reference haha

44. “I don’t know why I’m crying.”

AND

30. “CanI sit here? The other tables are full.”

The floor beneath your feet is not the puke-y beige linoleum of theRiverdale High cafeteria, but the uneven, sun-bleached, cobbled steps of astruggling Greek hotel. The outfit you wear is not the standard t-shirt andjeans you’ve more or less been donning since September, but the result of astylish 1962 makeover or a promotion to the ranks of the cardigan-clad PinkLadies. The noise in your suffering ears emanates not from a roomful of yourfellow high schoolers, but from the raucous backstage of the Palais Garnier, ora besieged Parisian barricade, or maybe a rowdy Chicago bar, minutes beforeRoxie and Velma take the stage.

You stare at the uninventive sandwich in your hand, swashed a little on oneside from riding in your backpack with your History binder. Nope, you’redefinitely still toiling your way through Tuesday.

Existing somewhere between reality and the land of musical make-believe isthe bare fact that there isn’t a free seat in the house―great news in atheatre, total shit when your teacher lets you out of class late and all youwant to do is park your butt and eat lunch.

Of course, you realize, eyes skimming just above the heads of your academicfriends and foes so as not to catch anyone’s gaze and read it in how patheticyou appear standing here clutching the world’s saddest sandwich, there is onespot you could sit. One spot you haven’t dared to sit, though it’s almostalways open.

Now you find that you are glancing around, taking in the sights, so yoursudden arrival at the Serpent Table (a near-official,read-it-in-capitals-in-your-mind type thing) may seem like the result of ahapless wander rather than the intention of desperation. Cafeteria mural’s flaking, you observe to yourself, studying thewall harder than most ever would or ever have. Studying up for the art test on 20th Century Americanphotographers, I see, you note, spotting a blurb and accompanying photo of Diane Arbus over theshoulder of a classmate. BLT, huh? What,you think you’re better than me? You swerve around the sandwich snob beforethe urge to tear your own sandwich bag open with your bare hands and use it tosmother the offender can overwhelm you.

And here you are. You stand silent, like one of those rare mannequins yousometimes see dressed in an ensemble that doesn’tappear to represent the fashion sense of an alien newcomer to the planet tryingto blend in. You clear your throat.

“I see ya,” says the reason people avoid this table. He doesn’t look up atyou and you feel affronted, annoyed, avoided, ashamed.

“Can I sit here,” you ask, though it comes out as a flat demand. For somereason, your voice is making it sound like you’ve asked the question over andover, receiving nothing but denial.

You brush your hair back from your face, if only to offer one of your hands atask alternate to sandwich holding.

“Maybe,” he says, biting an apple and focusing on the textbook he has openin front of him.

“What, are you saving someone a seat?” you snap, feeling the attitude clickinto place like the shoved down lever of a toaster. Burn, baby, burn.

He―the guy―the Serpent―Sweet Pea, looks up at you like you’re out of yourfreaking mind. Which is about the same moment you’re able to remind yourselfthat this is not a role, you are not on a stage, and there is no script tooffer you that peaceful, predictable assurance of knowing what kind of dialoguecomes next.

You drop the stiff shoulders and what you believe to be aggressive look inyour eye (which is probably closer to profound, horrified backpedalling) andfeel a little bad. Serpent or not, maybe the guy’s lonely. You know who hisfriends are and where they’re currently sitting, Toni with Cheryl and Fangswith Kevin.

Sweet Pea’s looking up at you and you share just enough classes with him toknow how unlikely it is that he’s about to willingly lead off a conversation.You sigh and muster your default niceness. Maybe it’s as unoriginal as yourt-shirt and jeans, but it’s you and it’s real.

“Can I sit here?” you inquire. “The other tables are full.”

You watch his tongue slide around his teeth, probably freeing a rogue pieceof apple skin. So maybe the reason you avoid this table isn’t the same aseveryone else’s.

“Yep.”

“Is that permission to sit or an acknowledgement of the cafeteria indeedbeing packed to capacity?” You’re trying to understand him, really you are, buthis dark eyes are frustratingly indecipherable, making you feel like you’vewandered into a carnival’s house of mirrors. Disoriented and struggling to findyour way back out.

“Sit,” he insists, and kicks out the chair across from him.

Honestly, it’s more invitation than you’d expected to get, so you do like hesays. Sweet Pea goes back to the crunching of the apple/reading of the textbookroutine―a real thrilling one-two―and you eat your sandwich and ignore thefolded, stapled papers you’ve laid on the table.

By the time you’re done and mostly but not totally full (in that way thatyou’re feeling you may not outgrow until your 20’s), with your cheek leaninghard on your fist, you have started to concentrate on the papers―just notreading them. You stare and wonder if you could levitate them with your mind.You wonder if, were you in possession of a magnifying glass, you could burnthese pages like ants under the unnaturally harsh glare of cafeteria lighting.

In fact, you are concentrating so well that you miss the cessation of theapple crunching and the subtle but shudder-inducing sound of slick textbookpages a-flippin’.

“What’s wrong with you? You look like hell,” Sweet Pea remarks.

Without raising your head, you let your eyes move to his face. Disarmingly,you find its expression reads as inquisitive, not mocking as his words wouldsuggest.

“I’m struggling,” you say. Privately, in your head, you congratulateyourself for confusing yourself. What did you mean, you wonder, to shut down aforay into casual socialization or to roll out the welcome mat between him andyour troubles?

“With what?” Immediately, a hand with a ring for which you believe the term‘statement jewellery’ was specifically designed reaches out and taps yourpapers.

You narrow your eyes and assess his face, possibly, probably, definitelylong enough to weird him out. Because you don’t know what the hell else to do,you sigh.

“I don’t know why I’m crying,” you confess. You’ve lowered your voice andhe’s leaned in to hear you, which is not an unpleasant progression as far as you’reconcerned. He smells like the apple he just ate and, uh, you should quitstaring at his lips.

“Not here,” you say, gesturingcircularly at your tear-free face. “Here.”You lift your drama class script from the table and give it a punishing smackwith the back of your hand.

“What’s this?”

You turn sullen. Sweet Pea gives you a stern look. His hand beckons for thepages and, defeated, you hand them over.

“A play?”

You nod, rubbing your hand along your cheek like that can hold off theblush. Pretty ridiculous how being on stage in front of people doesn’t scareyou, but telling anyone about it does.

“Look at this,” you complain, reaching over the page he has turned to(because the lines you highlighted yourself clearly show through, drawing hisattention) and point from memory at where your monologue begins.

He meets your gaze over the top of the script, then suddenly he is rising,coming around the table, and sitting down next to you, scraping the chair to benearer to your side. Your heartrate has a lot to say about this.

“I’m gonna need more information than that,” Sweet Pea informs you, handingyou the script and linking his fingers, exposed forearms resting on the tableeven as the rolled up sleeve of his shirt brushes your arm.

“Aren’t you doing homework or studying or something?” You gesture vaguely tohis abandoned textbook. Where dotextbooks end up, you wonder. Then, Hashe written his name inside the front cover? What does his handwriting looklike?

“You would not believe the amount of homework I have not done and still managed to look happier than you do right now.”

You snort out a breath. Sounds about right.

“The problem,” you explain, deciding to get on with it while trying to lookmore at the page in front of you than at Sweet Pea’s attractive brown eyes, “isthat it’s a student-run production for class, meaning that a student isdirecting it. The director hasn’t clarified any of my character’s motivationsand I don’t know how I’m going to pull it off.”

It’s a crisis of epic proportions, as far as you’re concerned. Musicaltheatre is what makes sense to you. It’s easy to comprehend and access thoseemotions. You don’t believe a person alive could sing Fantine’s lament tobroken dreams and not cry, or fail to laugh as Tanya baits and teases a much youngerman. Theatre without the music―that external ebb and swell―to guide you leavesyou feeling lost. Not that you’re quite ready to put all that into words for this near-stranger.

Sweet Pea doesn’t say anything, forcing you to look at him. With a shrug anda smirk that becomes a grin, he props an elbow on the table and slides it out,moving into your space.

“You’ve got this.”

Your eyebrows raise.

“What makes you think that?”

“Because of what you said. You said,” he lays a finger to your lips beforeyou can interrupt, “‘I’mgoing to pull it off.’”

The bell rings above and around you, but it’s kind of surreal because you’rejust staring at this guy who has totally surprised you. He gets up and reachesover to snap his textbook shut and pull it over to himself.

“If you’re still worried, hit me up for a good luck kiss,” he suggests,heading for the door. “SAME TABLE EVERY DAY,” Sweet Pea shouts back over hisshoulder.

You laugh to yourself before realizing you’re going to be late if you don’tget a move on. Whatever else he did, that Serpent certainly unsettled somethingin you. Maybe that’s exactly what you needed, for more than just the play.

[elizabethrobertajones]

13x07 Watching Notes

Should probably not have multiple scenarios where I snark out loud and then the very next line of dialogue is that snark but innocently delivered.

Heyooo it’s not our Christmas cliffhanger though!

Expectations: It has literally just occurred to me right now sitting down to type out my expectations that this season's *entire* main plot so far has been "the spawn of satan is cuter than we expected".

I'm still trying to wrangle the idea of how you get hours of Buckleming plot twists and slow exposition out of this, although introducing 18 different angles for them to tackle the problem and returning us to the AU world is a good start to have at least 4 plot threads going and hey I feel like this episode is supposed to be a breather for having too many Jack episodes in a row which makes it even funnier that they're gonna have to deal with the absence of something but who knows maybe he will show up before episode 9. If not they may genuinely be tricked into considering narrative negative space in some form or another, at least by the actual omission of Jack from the episode, despite the fact it has to be about him.

There's like at least 3 individual ways each arc might go terribly, and I'm typing this as pre-yoga thoughts while trying to do my NaNoWriMo and I watched Brooklyn 99 already this morning, and essentially I'm pretty much just bracing against "Oh god this new sleep pattern is the worst and it has ruined nearly every episode this season for me" migraines. So I'm just gonna be super chill because the stress of this ridiculous bed at 8pm awake at 5am thing is killing me without bad writing on my favourite show.

So, instead of modelling a worst case scenario, here's a best case one: it's crowded, the pacing is bad, there's some bizarre lines of dialogue and no room for any character interaction and the sneak peek already showed us the sum total of Destiel interaction but in hindsight with the rest of the episode that's actually a plus, and aside from that there's no rape or catastrophic bad decisions or characterisation that just makes our guys look like idiots because the villains aren't that smart and they're still outwitting them or something. Cas wasn't even mentioned in the episode description if I recall and I would like to think that is because he gets Buckleminged in the way where they forget he exists so he's in 2 scenes and just kinda stops at some point and that's the last we hear of him for a few episodes but at least nothing happened to him :P

(It HELPS that the bad decision of the year seems like it should be Jack and Kaia ganging up in 13x09 and this is just a plot filler episode where they can't blow everything up from sheer incompetence, since the main plot is still Jack, and all Buckleming can do is escalate stuff but not so much we find Jack, so they're mostly running free with Lucifer, Michael and Asmodeus on the playground they've been permitted to keep them distracted. On the other hand, that does not lend itself towards 'storytelling structure' whatsoever. So I may derive some fun from mentally re-writing this episode as it goes as well.)

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Hi I'm back and I have tea and preemptive paracetamol and look I not do crap like this lightly but the only thing wrong with me is sleep and yoga but glug glug glug down the hatch, I'm not fucking around, migraine. I swear to god if I even see a HINT of you...

-

I should also mention that my only prep for this episode was watching Tall Tales last night with my mum because we're lightly re-watching season 2 and I thought you know what look how far that fucker has come that he's just one of the show's regular directors now or something. I forgot that completely this morning so I'm amending my expectations (it WAS annoyingly early in the day) to add that Speight hasn't directed a Buckleming yet but I'm interested to see how he handles it.

-

The episode starts with Mary cheerfully punching Lucifer at least 3 times in the face. I am still extremely proud of her for doing that but overall disappointed that it's led to her banishment to be a Buckleming character this season, which has been a fast way to ruin characters.

We get the entire first minute of the recap in Buckleming POV, aka they write the corny villains - and specifically a lot of Asmodeus point of view, his summary of the situation and what needs doing, having graciously inherited this throne, and comments on where Lucifer is as a sort of trailing off, well that's not my concern if he's gone. Only at the minute mark does the recap flip around to something genuinely ABOUT Jack as we've been seeing him, rather than trying to sell Jack as woooo Lucifer's scaaary son. Suddenly Jack's own identity crisis and him leaving.

Maybe it's just because they were trimming for time, but they cut the "all of you" from "I know I'm going to hurt you" but they also left the focus on Sam. I am mostly amused that by removing the clarification - which has been a theme of the season - it reduces that moment to a bare minimum surface layer, as if to say bye bye writing depth hello random action.

-

I had a burgeoning theory last year from one episode or another that pretty much everyone is lampooning Buckleming while letting them get on with writing their stuff, and trying to run loops around them in basically any other way.

-

There was something going on on screen involving a lot of stock footage while I was digging around in my bag looking for my 3DS assuming this was gonna be a Lucifer scene. I still think they're softening him up to kill him, but that's something I have to hope. One of the other non-redemption options is that they need to make him at least halfway manageable if he is gonna end up working with Cas or something. There is something vaguely appropriate matching Buckleming dialogue to Lucifer melodramatics, but unfortunately I really can't give these writers or that character much of a chance so while I'm happy to let them take him to play with over on their bit of the story like a chew toy to keep them off the stuff I like, it is annoying this is all the canon of the show I like >.>

-

One or the other of Buckleming really really dislikes God and organised religion though, and that does often lend the interesting thing to an episode where for some reason as soon as religion is involved the writing actually gets halfway decent.

One thing Lucifer says that catches my interest is his idea the universe is written without irony, when tbh that has literally been his downfall in season 5, and in general the universe is ironic to the WINCHESTERS to whom the universe is actually happening to, and there's the whole Dean is the centre of the universe thing, and THEN there's Billie's line about how sometimes the universe is poetic, coupled with how Dean got Cas back entirely through dramatic irony. I can't remember if Chuck commented on dramatic irony. Anyway Lucifer sucks, the story doesn't happen to him and he doesn't have the resources to read it. Metatron *thrived* on that sort of thing.

-

I like the visual of Michael standing with the sun behind him - it gives him absolutely the divine look he'd love to have, and I just wish he didn't have randomly shirtless Lucifer taking up some of that visual. If someone doesn't make a gifset chopping Lucifer out to just enjoy that image, I will make one, perhaps.

Something else to enjoy about this: they locked Mark P in some sort of medieval torture device and no matter how comfy you try and make it, there's obvious limits to that, so I will enjoy that he had to do that.

-

Michael sees that Lucifer is scared of being locked up and caged, which actually is... accidentally or not... a pretty clever callback, although it wouldn't have killed them to have Michael deduce this on screen, because in 9x18 Dean - Michael's vessel - deduces that Gadreel - a blatant Lucifer parallel in many respects while obviously not in many many others - is terrified of being caged again.

Of course that exchange is one of the single most fascinatingly well-acted exchanges of the entire show which on my umpteenth viewing still knocks me completely flat so it's not a FAIR comparison, but it is an interesting one.

-

I like that Michael think that the main universe is already paradise - in comparison to his shithole, definitely, because it still has pretty stock footage. Thematically interesting since obviously paradise is a bit of an issue with what people want...

-

LOL Wanek's ridiculous "concrete bunker" set... The camera pulls back and there's a massive Jesus on the wall and Lucifer's hanging behind him screeching and it's like... That is an inanimate lump of wood and I can see it rolling its eyes at you.

In the earlier moments out here in the AU we saw the church from 8x23 poking up out of the rubble, and whether this is the same one or not NOW, because I think it was a bit too buried to be this one, it conjures the memory of 8x23, and that one was interesting specifically because Jesus wasn't there - the cross had only his hands and feet remaining and the rest had been torn down. Sam was inserted into that empty space because he was doing the big heroic world-saving sacrifice that from one direction of pure irony the episode was named after (since he decided not to do it/the real motives for his sacrifice were way more interesting than him going through with it heroically anyway etc) but it was another Sam and Jesus moment, like in 5x22 where he more straight-forwardly sacrificed himself.

(And jeeze you watch one episode with the guy and now I can't get him out of my head - remembering in 9x18 Gabriel snarking about how he died for their sins and then making one of the few Jesus references on the show. Jesus is usually extremely absent from this show, so actually having him on screen is very interesting)

Anyway I am pretty sure this is almost entirely to remind Lucifer what a great big fucking drama queen he is being about this all and of course he's sacrificing for nothing.

-

Blah blah promo scene.

They have the photo of Jack from Mia's security camera which means no one has snapped a cute picture of him on their phone yet, Cas included. Disappointing.

-

Now, I'm pretty hesitant to get into characterisation in BL episodes, and Dean just generically wryly comments on how powerful Jack is which could mean anything but Sam then says he might be covering his tracks and then Cas, who has to be written sympathetic to Jack, comes through the door saying that it could mean Jack is in trouble with the various forces that want to control him. Sam's comment coupled with Cas's interruption seems to make it much more likely that Sam's comment is to be taken as vaguely unnerved/suspicious of what Jack can do, and that he's doing things like that Dean implies. That Jack learned so fast he might be able to cause a fair amount of destruction but conceal it from them and if they're trying to track him, Sam is expecting destruction.

-

Dean also came from the kitchen with coffees so why is Cas coming from the back of the Bunker... I'm gonna have to assume he was until just now lounging around in Dean's bed and Dean was like I better go get coffee and help Sam and Cas was like yeah but thanks for the 'sorry your son ran away' sex i feel a lot better and Dean was like no problem babe, and probably gave Cas one of those ridiculous shoulder nudges in the most no homo way ever before he got up to find where they threw his underwear an hour earlier, and Cas just kinda chilled while Dean was getting the coffee so as not to be suspicious by piling in on Sam after taking the exact same length break from the search but then they fucked it up and still managed to enter the scene within 30 seconds of each other.

Yeah, that's probably it.

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I just saw the list of guest stars wander by and took 3 emergency gulps of my tea at that combo of Osric and for some reason DHJ because file that under genuinely unexpected :P

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PS: I know we knew Kevin would be back this year but the fact I managed to find Kevin thematic stuff in the last 2 episodes in a row still feels important to me as storytelling rather than foreshadowing.

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Anyway Cas tries to tell Dean the angels don't like him, and Dean volunteering to go with him because "i could go with you" is a thing and they keep doing it to each other and ow

-

Blah blah we could work a case. Are you serious? I really seriously hope this is not literally Buckleming's thought process about wtf do we do with Sam and Dean this episode after establishing maybe 4-5 other plotlines we need to handle away from them. I hope it turns out to be directly main plot related, whatever they stumble on, but we already now have them in a position where any involvement with the main stuff will be them stumbling on it or it coming to them. See above: ways in which the main characters are automatically made to be stupid. Subtle things, like not being able to imagine a way in which Sam and Dean are resourceful enough to even start to find Jack which doesn't involve googling things.

I mean we have no clue what you're doing with this random witch seeming case, why can't you bring a detail foreward if it's from the main plot to give us a clue. And if it's not, tell us something connected to it which will at least make Sam and Dean interested in it as a lead? Even if they're not right about why, put them on the trail because they're good at their jobs!

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Anyway hi Asmodeus? As soon as we clear the promo scene etc I start assuming everyone is Asmodeus

I mean, in this case it literally is. but you can't trust anyone these days.

He needs to have his equivalent scene to sitting around in the Bunker googling, which, which is to say, the same type of minions who brought Crowley or Lucifer news are now coming toadying in to tell Asmodeus news, and the only difference is his name is harder to spell.

He's trying to do the same thing reaching out to Jack that we saw Lucifer trying to do last season, to Dagon. There is always the possibility that Asmodeus just isn't powerful enough to get into Jack's head from this extreme range when he has no idea where he is. Loser.

This minion seems to be mistakenly labelling Jack as "the Jack", maybe not as a mark of respect but more misunderstanding what he is, that he's not a thing, that that's his name...

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Asmodeus asks who's protecting Jack, and cut to the image of Jesus again. I don't know about him, but tbh it could just be that Jack is protecting HIMSELF and they've massive underestimated him to do that. Jesus on this show represents a lot more of the personal autonomy saving yourself thing.

Also hey as long as we're not seeing Jack, we're getting that gosh darned hole in the narrative that he represents while he's missing. Is this actually a lesson in subtlety?

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Michael meanwhile is enjoying tormenting Lucifer some more because blah blah sole purpose in life and what do you even do when you win.

Lucifer appears to have claimed to be a god in the SPN verse and Michael's like, here you're pathetic, and I'm like, mate, he was pretty pathetic in the main SPN universe too

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There's some cool crosses on the walls which are trying to help, bringing light into this church.

-

Yeah where is Mary anyway - I wasn't gonna ask, but then Lucifer seemed to imply that Michael was keeping her around.

I mean sheesh the easiest way to get Mary around is to just have her in the scene still lurking but then film it as if it's almost entirely from her eyeballs POV if she doesn't have anything else to be doing right now - having her witnessing this theatre as the person from the main SPN world who's come over here.

-

KEV

-

Awwww he's gone a wee bit off the rails in this world, seeing as he'd have had to be helping Michael and reading tablets the entire time and also the entire world appears to be destroyed.

-

I don't know why Lucifer's having a personal reaction to Kevin unless I totally forgot something but they were literally never in the same seasons as each other although weirdly both in 11x21 so obviously must just be angels would know all the prophetsand which one was currently active... Maybe he's just surprised that in the AU Kevin survived even longer than he did in the supposedly better world.

Well there aren't any Winchesters in this one and Lucifer always underestimates them, in this case positively re: likelihood of getting Kevin killed :P

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Oh great they're powering down Lucifer a bit. Well that should make him much more irritating.

I mean mostly because everything makes him irritating.

But it means the show wants him around some more but they can't have him at full power because it's just inconvenient so now they're finding a reason to water him down so they can have him around dragging his heels and complaining. I suppose it might make some comparisons to Cas, who's on a smidgen of left-over grace, but again, see also: eye rolling wooden Jesus, there's no way you can redeem Lucifer and not by comparing him to Cas.

Metatron got some sort of treatment but he was nowhere near like Cas even when he was done being redeemed and he still had to be killed off doing a heroic thing rather than let him stick around.

I'm just grinding my teeth and I already got part of the way through the next scene but UGH

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So hey thinking of random versions of other characters why is DHJ's magnificent facial hair making a cameo return role on this side of the interdimensional nosense? You can't just grow a beard and start hunting witches on the down low on the winchesters' turf.

I'm assuming including DHJ's names in the credits was specifically some sort of nonsense now

specifically monsters going around looking like other things.

Maybe it was a shapeshifter Ketch punched a few weeks ago. It's only been a few weeks since he died, you know.

Maybe it's Asmodeus.

Maybe it's maybelline

The plot reason for the beard had better be hilarious.

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I like Daniella the Beret Witch. For some reason I thought she looked tons like the witch Sam and Dean were looking at on the CCTV but when I went back to look I actually spotted her in the background watching them and waiting to make her move, and she doesn't look like the one on the CCTV at all so I guess my brain clocked her and filed her away because she was sitting around in a huge scarf, sunglasses and a beret and my brain didn't want me to not pay attention to her in case she was useful.

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Kevin's weirdly pristine but still grey hoodie is making me giggle. He looks like the AU has barely touched him and Michael's even dirty and ragged.

I'm not sure I even want to touch random morality discussions from Buckleming. Lucifer says Michael is pure evil, Kevin says "aren't you Satan?" and Lucifer really hasn't done anything ever to make us actually want to root for him. Like sure Michael is the much worse bigger bad in the show's rankings but that doesn't make Lucifer less quanitifiably evil. Michael's way more complex because Lucifer is the big cartoon evil that Sam had to originally fear, the "what if I am actually evil" character mirror that obviously Sam isn't but it meant Lucifer needed no character complexity other than whiny manipulative interpretations of how he'd been mistreated where he could protest he had a side. Michael is waaaay more complex just in the like 2 episodes he actually talks in season 5 because he's "what if Dean was the big bad" and he's not evil, he's just 100% black and white morality rigid "good" in the sense of punishing evil, to the point of not questioning an order to kill his brother, and not even having a particularly "cool motive still murder" approach like Cain, but literally just like well okay then I guess I will kill my brother. How to make DEAN evil, or to personify the darkness that lives in him.

I mean I am massively simplifying but dear lord Buckleming if you read my notes this is the baseline direction you need to be writing these characters from and I am trying to HELP.

I am genuinely feeling like you're mistaking "apparent fan favourite because they make a lot of memes about him, Lucifer" as "this must mean people genuinely like him because he's Lucifer" and any possible reason I would find him interesting as a villain who was held up to just kinda exist and be himself doing his awful things contrasted to Michael who was just around existing and doing his awful things, is all just draining away down the toilet. Like you've got Lucifer lodged in there and you're flushing and flushing around him >.>

Anyway I'm going to take this entire scene as 100x more ironic than it was probably originally intended to be, that Kevin is not exactly right about Michael (and lol, Michael being the Dean parallel just kinda using Kevin all the time for random spells and always having him on the hook for doing things for them) but he's sure not wrong about Lucifer, Lucifer protesting Michael is evil because he's mistreating him and has destroyed this planet sure isn't WRONG but it's not a "so therefore I must be right"

And I kind of think the level of subtlety this writing is at is that "Michael is a dick and therefore Lucifer looks better in comparison"

But that's not how any of this works

*insert Jesus eyeroll*

-

*pats poor overworked manic AU!Kevin's hair*

I wonder if he's actually going to be able to do it

it would be HILARIOUS if they waste Lucifer's grace on this

-

Hey he did it, I'm proud of you AU!Kev. He always manages to do the thing :P

Okay not good that Lucifer has just been thrown back because A: Mary is still trapped over there, I assume for the much more important emotional arc stuff to do with rescuing her especially in the parallel to getting Cas back and all this stuff for Sam's arc and all

But UGH the writing of Lucifer is just really annoying me on so many levels and punting him back into the main SPN universe depowered and humbled by his brother, just annoys me so much.

Like I don't know how much more less enthused I have to be about Lucifer having struggles.

Boo hoo

-

Last season Dean got mistaken for homeless after he got hit with the memory spell, and was offered cash to make him go away.

he handled it considerably better than Lucifer.

I am just gonna assume this random woman is Asmodeus.

Lucifer probably ought to go grab that cash he was offered...

-

Oh wait here's Asmodeus, torturing some poor bloke called Karl who apparently works at the motel from last week.

I'm impressed they managed to track Jack that far, tbh

The question is, is there an actual memo that the Winchesters are camped in an old, heavily warded, impossible to map or locate MoL bunker, or is that something you only find out after you tail them for a bit? I mean Jack might not be there any more either but it would be a start :P

I feel extra skeevy about this scene because Asmodeus is being a total moron for starters by not checking Karl's level of clued in to this, and so he's this white plantation owner coded guy in his shiny white suit, torturing a black guy who isn't even on the same level as him for info he doesn't have, and could in no way be resonably expected to know. So it's doubly cruel. Although in some respects Asmodeus's coding makes this gratuitous violence a commentary, just like Buddy and Dave being collosal douches to women in the last few episodes was called out in many ways simply by their existence and coding as collosal douches.

Still not nice to watch on screen, especially without even more specific reference to Asmodeus's doucheyness because the stupidity of this dialogue is not helping.

Like did the minions just bring Karl to him and say hey we tracked the Winchesters and Jack this far, he might know more?

Like...

This is the sort of basic intelligence test fail here, that they're not over-thinking this scene in the specific details that you need to not have your main villain parade around displaying total idiocy over.

Like why the Winchesters would book into a motel under "Sam and Dean Winchester and Jack the Nephilim" and then Karl would know that and know what that means.

You can't just drag a normy into the Hell Main Office and torture them for info about Jack when they have no clue who that is.

He literally

can shapeshift

into anything

Go to the Stampede Motel, turn into a pretty girl in a low cut top, and lean on the motel check in desk until you know what you were after.

I'm no longer impressed they found Karl, I'm AMAZED.

-

Why did they kiiiiill him

-

Lol Asmodeus is so hammy

what's he sensing

Has he figured out Lucifer is back?

-

Meanwhile: Sam and Dean voluntarily go to a creepy cabin in the woods with a witch. This is not quite as stupid as Asmodeus was just being.

-

I am loving the plot development that David Hayden Jones has returned to the show as himself to find Rowena. Like dammit, you were a really cool character I had no interaction with but we coulda had some screen magic for all you know. You may or may not be in this episode as a surprise appearance which as Lizzy said putting MY name in the credits is the "hey it's that guy" fuckery to distract from the fact there's some bigger fuckery at foot (like... aside from the fact I was back to back with OSRIC FUCKING CHAU) because you don't *just* randomly put my very recognisable name in the credits at the start of the episode with Osric unless it's because something's up. So heeey here I am, I'm looking for Rowena, because dangit Ruthie deserves another chance to be in this show.

-

Daniella is also really slow to realise that Sam just said she was going to be bait. It took until Dean repeated it for her to realise.

-

She's really pretty though.

-

She starts choking like several moments before the gas hits her

-

... is that DHJ?

-

I mean we're getting a close up on his face but I literally. Do. Not. Recognise. Him.

I remember rambling at some point in my watching notes in season 12 when his face was being particularly hilarious after I'd seen con photos of DHJ that Ketch is one of the most effective character disguises I've ever seen for an actor's face. TBH it's the same weird different face thing I get from Alex Calvert - that he's all clean shaven and filmed as a wee nougat child in the show but he has an instagram of unrecognisable smouldering glamour shots, often with scruff. DHJ has a beard and that's his face, and part of the Ketch look was being clean shaven and crammed in a tight collar which is an incredibly British upper class twit look, and even in other clothes later the illusion lasted... But add a beard and stop grooming his hair and he just turns into some other person entirely.

-

Ah well, Dean gets to punch DHJ with Ketch's accent again which must be satisfying for him.

-

Did they take DHJ back to the Bunker? Really?

-

Oh he doesn't have the tattoo

LOL he's his "twin" "brother"... Obviously.

Yeah okay whatever you say, DHJ.

-

elizabethrobertajones Hey what if DHJ was actually Rowena

mittensmorgul oh god, don't give them ideas

-

ALSO if you have an "evil twin brother" you would generally assume that this sort of thing would happen a lot and you'd try and clarify sooner? I bring up my twin like every other time I talk about myself.

Also this is a ridiculous concept I refuse to engage with

-

I mean, thematically, wowsers. Fits right in with Buddy and Dave and things that look like other things

-

ALSO DHJ has been going around torturing witches so it's not like he's been the good twin

-

ALSO WHY IS HE HERE?

-

Apparently he's a hitman hunter

-

I suppose it's kind of like Bela but I do find it really strange.

Like how does anyone even know to hire him if no one knows monsters exist? Who is pointing him at these things?

Insinuating himself into situations like Bela to get work maaay be a way to do it, like if the Winchesters showed up in town and immediately told the sheriff what was up and then offered their fee as contractors or something. Pfft.

Pfft.

-

And then he's like "we hunters" because he's trying to bond with them or something

-

To google!

-

It's convenient he kept a beard his whole life

-

Oh okay Sam stole hard drives from the BMoL and is using their actual data.

-

I like the side by sides of their report cards where the prop people literally did them backwards from each other. "*More effort required!" they say about Alexander, and "Excellent work!" for Arthur.

-

Dean isn't buying it

-

LOL they dumped Ketch's corpse into the waste canal.

Do you want a haunted Bunker? That's how you get a haunted Bunker.

-

Anyway Dean is like NOPE don't believe it and Sam's like... there's so much proof... and then he goes in to question DHJ again and DHJ is like... you literally saw me get shot in the head last season, you don't trust that? And Sam's like no I had to concede that Dean had a point that we really can't trust anything and I guess Cas did just randomly come back or something and we have horrific problems with the white men on this show coming back again for completely random reasons that make no sense so you had better bloody well actually be re-introducing Rowena into the narrative even more dramatically than the warning Billie gave about the red-headed witch that Dean probably didn't tell me about now come to think of it, but I'd still like to see her again because we had a sort of weird thing we never really talked about going on...

-

Also are they keeping DHJ in the store room that showed up for the pencil scene but isn't the other store room? It looks like a different part of the Bunker repurposed.

-

Sam mis-reads Ketch, maybe because he never knew him as well as Mary or even Dean saw him. DHJ is like dude I played him for a year and psychoanalysed him and his crush on Dean in multiple interviews, so trust me when I tell you all his character exposition.

The stuff about being loyal to Heaven - I mean the BMoL - and being a company man echo what Ishim said about old Cas in 12x10

-

DHJ like, I did so much character work in those interviews, and I never got a chance for Ketch to be sympathetic so let me offer some more insight on him now you have me in the worst interview chair ever.

Also, don't go into pop culture journalism, Sam

-

"If he were here, he'd admit regret to some of the things he did to your family"

Yeah unless you have a magic twin link (well... not unlikey tbh with random ass canon pulls) you're either Arthur Ketch or just DHJ enjoying doing interviews about Ketch to a twisted and weird level and I'm sort of gonna have to do an intervention on this for him.

-

CAS

-

NEW PLAYGROUND

-

New angel!

mittensmorgul dumas? that's the name the superwiki has linked, but her page is blank

elizabethrobertajones Heh 3 musketeers again first in the off-brand nougat now that

-

"If we had him he wouldn't be imprisoned he'd be put to work"

SHE WANTS NEW ANGELS

I don't freakin blame her

But Jack shouldn't be "put to work" either - he would have to want to do it.

Awww Cas getting protective over Jack before I'm done typing that of course this means Jack would be forced to do it and the angel says "No other choice" because of course she does.

As usual heaven isn't comic book evil but its purposes in the name of "good" are super shady. Even if Jack was pure evil himself, Heaven enslaving a powerful nephilim for its own purposes would be dodgy.

-

Btw I am still torn about Cas's compulsion to care about Jack but on the other hand I am really enjoying Cas generally existing and being alive - and wait a minute she didn't even ask about how he was doing that - so I'm pretty much enjoying the surface level about Cas and Jack right now. Because of course I see the good in Jack that he DOES need protecting, so however Cas ended up on this, at least he is doing the right thing and taking the right stance.

-

"Castiel, he's not your pet. He belongs to all of us."

-

Uhoh, Cas is probably going to get grabbed.

*surprise*

Hey he did pretty well considering he's fighting 3 angels and is much weaker than them.

-

Oh boy, here's Lucifer. This is gonna go great.

-

Does Cas or Lucifer need to start this with the "you're supposed to be dead/in the AU" first?

-

Lol, Cas is the first person in this entire damn episode to actually ask a relevant question, and it's one we already know the answer to

*waves a little flag for Cas though*

Hey and then Lucifer asks about Cas being alive, what do you know.

He then calls Cas "cowboy" and pretends like Cas wouldn't kick his ass.

I am pretty happy about the "cowboy" thing :P

-

Lucifer has found a tan jacket somewhere, specifically one that looks like the one Jack was wearing but maybe a bit thicker, more like Cas's new coat. He's trying to edge in on this family and I can only assume this is not even a veiled metaphor for the douchey biological father wanting to be all interested in his son's business.

Lucifer in a tan jacket makes me think wolf in sheep's clothing.

-

He does, however, shelve the issue of child custody for now, and he appears to be genuinely freaked out enough about Michael to make that a priority and tell Cas about it, because if you want help against Michael, we've had 2 references to Team Free Will in short succession and that was a phrase coined specifically to spite Michael...

I don't think Lucifer should be allowed in, remotely, because it's become a family term, but the imagery is interesting anyway that he is trying to leech off the success of TFW to accomplish the goals he could never do himself. Especially because it was blatant in season 5 to everyone but him that Michael would kick his butt since he already did it once before and nothing has changed, 12x12 confirmed Michael would kill him slowly, and now meeting an AU Michael, he discovers that yep Michael sure is stronger than him, even when he was the last strong archangel left, and then Michael took that from him...

-

None of this, however, makes Lucifer sympathetic or good, just self-interested in not dying, and who is better at not dying than Cas?

I mean he wasn't even expecting to see Cas here, I guess he was going to a heaven portal to try and get them to listen?

-

LOL Kingdom Beer sign over Cas and Lucifer having a chat in a bar.

Cas looks Weary.

"I came back from the dead to deal with THIS? Please take me back to yesterday when it was fun kinky cowboy times with Dean."

-

I'm glad Cas isn't remotely friendly to Lucifer and is quick to remind him about how killed he got last time they hung out. Lucifer continues to be whiny and annoying about it all, unrepentant for killing Cas over petty nonsense.

-

LOL Lucifer is like "this Michael is much more powerful"

buddy. dude. go watch 12x12 then get back to me about how whooped your butt would have been. I mean go look at that lovely painting of him whooping your butt that was in 12x12 and unrelated to the fact he had that fucking lance in the first place.

-

Anyway he's trying to convince Cas to use his influence on Jack to get them to be the ultimate team up but they're fundamentally incapable of doing that because they're the 2 rival dads for Jack and blatantly symbolically being shown as that in these costumes, and that's one of the huge thematic things.

-

Cas like "You are the Weakest Link, goodbye."

-

I love Cas being so snarky, so maybe Lucifer being around is good in some respects, that it makes Cas this snarky because he has something to bounce off as awful and despised as Lucifer. Not even Crowley got THIS dismissive treatment, because they had emotional baggage that was of a whole different sort, whereas Cas and Lucifer have been opposite mirrors the whole time since season 4

-

Lucifer is emphasising how he and Cas are the big cosmic powers around here, with Jack. Hm...

Lol Cas is like "I'm calling my guys who deal with these things" and Lucifer bangs his head on the table in despair. I guess this is like the boy who called wolf except that instead of calling wolf he was literally going around eating all the sheep and was banned from being a shepherd for life and locked away and got out and ate more sheep and was locked away and got out and ate more sheep and got locked away and THEN came back like oh hi something's gonna eat all our sheep.

-

Lucifer then says Cas needs him and that he needs Cas and they all need Jack.

So Um I guess "Need" is The Worst Word right now :P

-

"Jack. Your son's name is *Jack*" *pats Cas's hair*

Pfft themes "is he a chip off the old block?" "thankfully, no. he seems to favour the mother"

Theeeeeeeeemes

-

Cas squinting when he lies - I don't think that's his lying tell because he does it too much, but perhaps uncertainty. The fact he squinted so much in the reintroduction huggy scene last episode feels to me less like lying and more like no clue what was going on and how mad he had to be about his humans sacrificing for him to come back.

-

Laughing at all their labelled phones lying around permanently charging. I think this is the first proof we've ever seen that they have a Bobby phone bank, but I can't imagine who would rely on the Winchesters to answer the phone when they need proof of ID :P They're like ALWAYS being abducted or disappearing on cases.

Or dying.

-

Okay so the phones are more just for their personal IDs for the cards THEY give out and they're just getting a call back from the motel for some reason, I suppose because Jack was with them (seriously. Dean gave the motel the name Jack? I have to assume Jack said his name before they could re-name him on the fly and so he was registered as a guest there as Jack the Nephilim because why the fuck not... Berens has a magic skill of un-fucking Buckleming canon but it seems Buckleming's skill is fucking up poor Davy's, in 12x13 and 12x17 and now here...)

ANYWAY jesus christ Asmodeus is stupid. "Evil Colonel Sanders" literally walked in and abducted Karl in person which means that his stupid ass questions weren't even because his minions brought him the guy and presented him in an idiotic way, but our shapeshifting villain wandered in and took Karl, himself in person with his own freaking face that the Winchesters KNEW and is extremely memorable, and took his prize.

...

DHJ better turn out to be Asmodeus even though I think their screentime overlapped and this makes no freaking sense since he has some established history wandering around attacking witches before they caught up with him.

-

I'd rather have a time plothole than a stupid plothole :P

-

Anyway DHJ is hanging out with them in the library eating a sandwich because... um

reasons?

At least he's in chains.

-

Oh my god I said that sarcastically moments before Sam said it sincerely and then pointed out there's no bathroom in the armoury

what the fuck

-

Like I said up top: as stupid as the villain is, your main characters have to be about as dumb as they are, either only just enough to outwit them, or more stupid if they get outwitted...

Poor Sammy, he was having such a fantastic season

-

Dean just straight up pretends Mary is phone when DHJ asks because why the heck would you monologue your sad life story to the bad guy, and give him emotional leverage over you? Especially when he ASKS because "Alexander" should have no knowledge of Mary or care about her, but then he also shouldn't know the DHJ interview details of Ketch's inner life.

-

YAY Dean and Cas are talking and Dean phoned Cas probably just to hear a sane voice because Cas is managing to weave around being Buckleminged, so far, possibly just because he was not in the opening half of the episode, and then this was a really important conversation they couldn't fuck up so probably got supervised.

-

elizabethrobertajones tee hee Cas standing by the gents to take a call from Dean wait hang on ... I'm not even being jokey I literally just had that moment in the chat with you :P *rewinds* Longing retcon Confirmed Oh dear that is hilarious I don't know if that's the moment you wanted me to see or not but I'm delighted :P

elizabethrobertajones Cas was standing away from Lucifer ready to take Dean's phone call and had to have walked off up to a minute before he called, but most likely in that time when Dean was like UGH I need to talk to Cas and hear the one sane voice in this episode and Cas was like... Brb I... have to use... the 'Gents' and got up and wandered off to take the call eat it, 12x10 and that "where's my phone" moment I mean Buckleming introduced it to fill a plothole so why should they not use it to cover more plotholes at their leisure

... did Speight know? I mean he coulda been like what the heckeroo, and added Cas getting the call and legging it from the table.

-

The only other option I can think of is Cas decided he may as well just get up to "go pee" because Lucifer is so annoying that pretending he needs to go to the loo buys him 5 minutes to let his migraine subside.

-

Also what the fuck DHJ was wandering around the bunker so he could use the bathroom. I am confused. Is this actually like... being hinted at. Like, "hey children, please remember who does and doesn't need to use the bathroom in this episode"

-

Omg

Cas like "I would *like* to see you too" is he literally pretending he and Dean were canoodling on the phone as a cover?

-

I hate everything

-

Anyway need/want blah blah I have been over that a lot lately :P Cas is using his DESIRE to see Dean to get help, by Lucifer saying he NEEDS Cas.

-

"Smooth was never your strong suit" oh my god Lucifer also thought Cas was pretending to be flirty too what is going on

why has this episode confirmed all the headcanons about Cas being the most shittiest phone sex guy ever

of all the things.

why.

-

DHJ wants to go because he misses being in on the action with the guys

-

Like. No, go take your sandwich and sit down.

-

Dean is sad about Cas always getting killed by Lucifer and stuff when he does stupid things.

-

Cas's "ugh stop talking Lucifer" face is a whole layer more existential misery than dealing with Crowley... I think he was secretly fond of Crowley or at least enjoyed hating him, whereas Lucifer is just EXHAUSTING.

He's needling Cas for attention.

-

LOL randomly Asmodeus as if Cas's headache wasn't bad enough, now we got thunder and lightning and very very frightening...

Pfft.

-

bahahaha Lucifer called Asmodeus the dim bulb

I mean he's not wrong, Asmodeus has been completely idiotic all episode. And of course, narratively, his "evil plans" are just self-interest which will endanger the entire world because even if Lucifer is a twat, he has a point about the coming danger of Michael, and Asmodeus just refuses to see the danger, which is all kinds of various political commentary, and using his era aesthetic to say this kind of thinking is such a throwback...

-

I think this might be the most confused Cas has ever been about if he should stab someone or not - if he actually WANTS to defend Lucifer. Not really, but Asmodeus seems like a bigger problem because at least Lucifer isn't trying to kill him.

-

I hope this just randomly gets Asmodeus killed.

Or Lucifer

-

Asmodeus just called Lucifer "screwable"... do they even know what they said? :P

-

EEEP there was a Margiekugel sign and it just flickered off

-

"Nick's bar" pfft because Lucifer?

-

It seems like Sam and Dean are too late and Asmodeus already made off with everyone?

I hope Cas is okay

being held captive by that idiot seems like a fate worse than death. You're going to get villain monologues all day.

-

Anyway fight fight fight

-

Good fight.

-

Where did DHJ even come from?

-

that was a ridiculous nonsense about how he escaped. I also will die if he took Dorothy's bike and not his own left stashed there. Also he nodded at Dean like hey you didn't cavity search me like you should have, which... Is he actually Ketch?

-

He's actually Ketch

Of course that means Dean knows him very well and trusted his gut instinct on knowing Ketch to prove that he was not, in fact, the actor David Hayden Jones, chillaxing on set and being weirdly cheerful about being beaten up by the Winchesters.

-

Pfft he used Rowena's charm to get alive again

-

Well she better be fine if they're gonna use her like this.

-

"Is she?"

-

LOL Ketch ninja'd out of there

Oh good it wasn't Dorothy's bike

Considering how they use Rowena, DON'T use Mary, etc I'd have taken Dorothy's bike as a personal insult. I guess Ketch rode his over to the Bunker before 12x22.

-

I mean at least this means Ketch remembers he got shot and then also he revived in a sewer where he belonged because he is garbage.

-

Wait. He set up this whole thing in like a month or so TOPS since he got shot? If he’s been chasing witches has he even had TIME for a side business?

-

Oh boy, Asmodeus using Cas's voice to talk to Dean.

BAD HELLO DEAN.

That "see you soon" is also way too cheerful. It should be as much of a tip off as Cas begging Dean to come help him in the previous call.

-

I hope Dean sees through it.

Though it's so Buckleming-y I don't think people should be mad if he doesn't because this was them doing a smart!Dean episode.

-

PFFT of course they team up - colonialism from all sorts of fun angles!! The ultimate trashy white guys in suits team up.

-

Thanks Buckleming!

-

Man, I need a whole pot of detox tea now. I don't even have closing thoughts.

[comebackwhen]

All of them for the Rescue verse?

I actually laughed out loud when I saw this. In a good way. Nonnies love the Rescue Verse, I guess! Thank you for submitting this.

I did it, but it’s longish so I’ll put it under the cut. All the Rescue Verse love below!

1: What inspired you to write the fic this way?

I’m pretty sure this was the first time an nonnie wandered into my ask box and just dropped random awesome for me to build off of. To this day, I have no idea who to thank for starting the Rescue Verse, but I love them anyway.

2: What scene did you first put down?

I had never intended to flesh it out into multiple stories. I made up a vague, “things happened and now boyfriends!” sort of background and then just jumped in right at the first line of Rescue. Things went out of control from there.

3: What’s your favorite line of narration?

Let’s go fic by fic for funzies!

Rescue: It’s more a paragraph than a line, but this section is still my favorite.

As he walked, he drew on traits from the men he had grown to love. He pretended he had Angeal’s unflappable composure, the confidence Genesis exuded with every step, and Zack’s friendly cheerful nature. He used those things to take on a persona much like Genesis had. He became a bright eyed, eager Third who had just spotted a beautiful woman.

I liked the idea of Cloud taking things he admired about the others and putting them to use in his own way. It’s also a bit of a play on Cloud thinking he was Zack for part of the OG.

A Lil’ Head Injury: Zack’s hugs might be the most enthusiastic, but Angeal’s were the warmest.

Mission Start: Cloud put on a burst of speed and rushed to cover Sephiroth’s back. Cloud could feel the heat of him along his spine and caught a whiff of vanilla and rose from Sephiroth’s hair as it whipped in the breeze.

I’m a sucker for Cloud and Sephiroth fighting together.

Uncanny Luck - One: He leaned against a wall with his eyes shut, looking for all the world like he was napping at the edge of a battlefield. A few Troopers were eyeing him, unsure if they should attempt to wake him or not.

I love it when Genesis is being a shit. Firaga runs and wild stories about how he burns Troopers alive are all well and good, but I think he would actually be a little more subtle about it.

Uncanny Luck - Two: To the surprise of everyone who was not Zack, Seventh Heaven was quite pleasant.

Dunno. There’s just something about that line that I like, even now.

Unrequited: Angeal thought that the moment should feel more significant, but somehow everything seemed ordinary.

That’s seriously my ASGZC aesthetic. It should be complicated and weird edges all crammed together, and yet it all just happens and it’s good.

Adjustment Phase: Cloud loved and hated the way Sephiroth said his name. It was practically a caress and Cloud always felt it as keenly as he would if Sephiroth were actually touching him. A small part of him wished Sephiroth were actually touching him.

Cloud really struggles with his inner monologue during this fic. I feel like this line really showed that.

Gen/Ang Sickness fic: Even if he pretended that he was above their country roots, Angeal knew Genesis occasionally liked to be reminded of home.

Genesis and Angeal alone together was the easiest to write. Angeal knows Genesis too well to be impressed by his BS. Genesis knows Angeal really knows him and enjoys not being on display for a change.

4: What’s your favorite line of dialogue?

Rescue: Oooh… that’s tougher. Hm. I’ve always been proud of Genesis calling his admirer an “odious little pervert.” I also really liked Cloud and Zack’s “It wasn’t like that.”/”It was exactly like that.” exchange. My favorite though is probably Sephiroth’s line: “In fact, I believe you will be joining me for every public appearance I have for the rest of my life.”

A Lil’ Head Injury: “He came here almost immediately after leaving you to talk to me because he believed he was unfaithful to me. Either that’s love or a complete lack of self-preservation.”

Mission Start: “You’ll stay?”

There’s just something great about how vulnerable Sephiroth is in that moment without really saying anything at all. Though the innuendo at the end about Sephiroth calling Cloud sir is pretty great too.

Uncanny Luck - One: I really like the exchange near the end that’s a callback to the original fic. I was pretty proud of it:

“Are you sure that was him? He seemed kinda, I dunno, innocent-like to be the guy Natalia was talking about.”

“I’m sure. Short for a Solider, blonde spikey hair and blue eyes… always with the Soldier leaders. I saw him fight with the General and then talk with Commander Fair for a little bit. It has to be him.”

“Obviously Natalia was lying about what happened when she tried to flirt with Commander Hewley. I bet she never even talked to him. She was just trying to play it up by saying a Soldier tried to pick her up. Now we both look like idiots for panting over that Third.”

Uncanny Luck - Two: “Besides, I’m pretty sure burning down the building was Sephiroth’s plan for his next night out.”

Unrequited: “I will tell you the same as I told the brute in the kitchen. If you are going to reward me with kisses, that will make me want to quote Loveless more often, not less.”

This line is just so Genesis that I can’t believe I wrote it.

Adjustment Phase: It’s a straight toss up between, “He washes up, just like the rest of us… only with way more shampoo.” and “Hey  there, sexy pants.”/”I’m not even wearing pants.”

Gen/Angeal Sickness fic: It’s no wonder you’re tired, dear, you’re wound so tightly that you can’t even have fun in my imaginary scenarios where we sneak off to a town in the ass end of nowhere to annoy our little trooper friend.”

I can picture Genesis planning elaborate scenarios in his mind when he daydreams and having the more pragmatic Angeal and Sephiroth shoot them down with logic.

5: What part was hardest to write?

The little sexy bits. Zack talking about Genesis’s little game and Sephiroth talking to Cloud near the end of Rescue. Some parts of A Lil’ Head Injury too. I always feel like it reads as awkward as it feels when I write it. Of course, I have no idea if it’s true or not because I’m viewing it through my own awkward filter...

6: What makes this fic special or different from all your other fics?

Honestly, it was the fact that someone asked me to write it. I’ve been in the fandom a while under another penname. When I decided to come back, I scrapped the old stuff that was from when I first started writing and opened a fresh page under a new name. Even when I wrote before, no one came to me for content. They enjoyed it if I created it and put it out there, but they didn’t ask for it. Having someone want me specifically to give their idea life was a really awesome feeling.

7: Where did the title come from?

Zack’s line: “Tonight you learn something new about our relationship. I like to call it the rescue.“

It fit with the prompt too, but that was the line that made it work for me  as a title.

8: Did any real people or events inspire any part of it?

Mostly in the Uncanny Luck follow up stories. I’m definitely that Cloud. I’ve had friendly, fantastic conversations with strangers only for my friends to tease me after for breaking the guy’s heart.

9: Were there any alternate versions of this fic?

No real alternate versions, but I scrapped a plan where I was going to write a bunch of prompts using various mixings of ASGZC and post one a day for a month. I had the first three or four done but I wanted to post them so badly that I just went for it.

I guess you could say that Cloud’s B-Day fics from 2015 are a kind of alternate timeline. I was going to try and make them Rescue Verse stories but they never quite fit the world in my mind.

10: Why did you choose this pairing for this particular story?

Besides it being part of the request, ASGZC was my go to happy place at that point. I had just gone through a rough break up and liked to imagine people being happy together.

11: What do you like best about this fic?

It’s kind of uncomplicated. Whenever I find a prompt I want to use for the boys, I don’t have to worry about fabricating a back story to justify why they’re together. They just are… and it’s awesome!

12: What do you like least about this fic?

By not planning it out, I occasionally write myself into a corner. Once I had a few stories written I wanted to go back and clean it up. There were events I had already alluded to and then had to write around. The more I add to the verse, the more of that I have to work around. It’s also occasionally a struggle to figure out where in the timeline things fit.

13: What music did you listen to, if any, to get in the mood for writing this story? Or if you didn’t listen to anything, what do you think readers should listen to to accompany us while reading?

It’s been so long, I don’t know what I did throw on to write to, but I would guess OC Remix’s Voices of the Lifestream album. It’s usually my go to when I write FFVII fics… if I’m not listening to the original soundtrack.

Particularly fond of Daydreaming Again and Sleep My Sephy.

14: Is there anything you wanted readers to learn from reading this fic?

Not learn, exactly. I more hoped that it would inspire other writers to get into the pairing. I enjoy reading it as much as I enjoy writing it.

15: What did you learn from writing this fic?

It was a good, “you can’t plan for everything” kind of story. I wouldn’t say I plan everything before I write, but I like to know the basic plot before I set fingers to keyboard. This was an exercise in “fuck it, let’s just do the thing!”