#and how vash considers both humans and plants his people

[anisohtropy]

if I had the ability to draw or edit, I would do a whole dramatization of the twin’s conflict in tristamp to the plagues. legit I have a vision for the whole song. Let me lay this out for you because it is haunting me. Their actual fight happening during the choir portions, the fight intensifying as the voices do. Every time the choir comes in between the portions of the song between the brothers, it’s always the fight in July and eventually the flashback portions move through time enough that they get caught up at the end for the space shit.

Cuts to flashbacks of them together as children. Once I called you brother/Once I thought the chance/To make you laugh/Was all I ever wanted 

Then the first argument/fight they had when they were teenagers in the facility full of dying plants. And even now I wish that God/Had chose another/Serving as your foe on his behalf/Is the last thing that I wanted

Cuts to what happened at Jeneora Rock. This was my home/All this pain and devastation/How it tortures me inside then scenes of the people who died at Jeneora Rock All the innocent who suffer a close up of Knives From your stubbornness and pride

Literally any of the stuff between the two of them from ep 11. You who I called brother/Why must you call down another blow?

The plants all floating in the soup around Vash and Knives bc that shit is disturbing if you’re actually paying any attention to it Let my people go 

Dark!Vash raising his gun at Knives Thus saith the Lord/Thus saith the Lord

And then finally for the end of it, we’re caught up to the fight in space, the struggle over the angel arm You who I called brother/How could you have come to hate me so?/Is this what you wanted?

Knives getting burnt to a fucking crisp, like the full sequence of it happening Then let my heart be hardened/And never mind how high the cost may grow/This will still be so/I will never let your people go/Thus saith the Lord/Thus saith the Lord

Knives’ skeleton ass flying off into space I will not

Vash falling back to Earth and July fucking exploding Let your (my) people go

Please someone do what I cannot, I just think this would be great. I just really needed to let this idea out into the ether because I’m actually being driven insane. Like put the plagues on and read through this and imagine it, let it seep into your bones, let it keep you up at night and you may suffer as I have as a lowly writer

[slothpoth]

Uncanny Vash and Knives Hcs

I just finished TriMax like— today so now I feel more comfortable being Public with hcs

TW: Body horror and the like

I’m gonna format this by saying overall hcs and then getting specific on how both of them treat/adapt to these hcs and what personal differences they have

Duo Headcannons

Every time their voicebox reopens their voice takes on a different tone

Most of the time it’s imitating voices they’ve heard in the past, sometimes it’s a weird amalgamation of them creating a new voice.

For example when they only knew Rem their voices would sometimes go a bit too high pitched like it’s their original voice mixed with Rem or just straight up Rem

Their eyes are very glassy and doll-like

I won’t say life less because they can still emote but I think when they’re at rest it’d be very like IB/ Mad Father Doll Room Tease

I’m playing with the idea of them not blinking but I wanna make it freakier somehow so maybe they blink inconsistently? Like one eye will blink every hour and the other every two hours?

The surface of their skin is always feels like there’s an electric current underneath, like you touch their arm and they have buzzies

Independents in general start off looking very uncanny as a newborn, grow into a child that looks very human, and as they rapidly age they start to become more plant like again (got inspo for this from possuminatrenchcoat_27 on tiktok)

This could possibly be a newer adaptation after what happened with Tesla assuming that Tesla is the first instance of an independent/ the first instance of an vs independent getting brutalized like that.

When they get antsy or any high tension you’d be able to see their respective abilities kind of…..moving under their skin

When the tension or emotion gets too much they start to like leak whatever their thing is, think “Hikaru” from The Summer Hikaru Died

When they bleed it’s a mixture of blood of sometimes a feather or a leaf or two

Viewing their “human” visages as a sort of disguise, I’d like to assume they can change colors

And by change colors I mean change how saturated or unsaturated their skin, hair, nails, and other organic parts are

Like if they do choose they can have the brightest teeth none to man and plant

Speaking of teeth, they can choose how many, how little, how long, how short, and what order their teeth are in

Also!! Incredible muscle control, like thinks Fox in a trap, rather than knaw off their leg they simply move and contract the muscle (and possibly bone) until they can slip out

They can photosynthesize but when they do it’s very obvious and very ominous

Like imagine one of them standing looking up, neck limp head back, eyes wide and unfocused slightly rolled back, jaw slack, a rumbling coming from the top of their head and from the ground but nowhere inbetween

Their senses are heightened so in high traffic areas they can get overwhelmed easily, especially considering that they spent their developing and adapting years on the ships where the loudest thing was the machine hum

I think it’d be funny if they can make themselves smell like different types of foliage like one day it’s roses the next it’s honeydew the next it’s just grass

Vash Copes

so Mr. Deluxe-Life-Like over here is a hummer

Like he’ll hum and clear his throat and make noises to try a get his speaking voicebox to around a tone that somewhat sounds like him.

He can’t just start randomly talking and sound like Milly! That’d be rude!

So along with the rainforest animal sequence chittering and chattering he’s just, “hmm hrrmm huummm buh…how are doing? Do you feel okay?”

To make up for how his eyes are he wears glasses (of course) but also had figured out how to dilate his eyes in time with what he sees in other people’s emotions (incredible muscle control)

He’ll be purposely very expressive to take as much attention from his eyes as possible so none notices how his eyes look or the blinking issue

Sometimes he’ll make himself blink when he knows he’s being looked at

So when Vash is getting antsy under his skin youll see almost like vines wiggling about underneath, but very inconsistently

Like if you’re looking at his arm you’ll see a long thin vine, that could be mistaken for a vein, jerk around sporadically

When he’s getting very antsy the vine will sprout thorns that’ll push through his skin like water. It won’t leave a wound behind the skin will just fall back together

That’s why he likes the coat so much because you can’t see the things going on under his skin

So like imagine an almost worm like part of his skin being raised that’s jerking around and moving these thorns that just glide through his skin (freaky huh?)

I think Vash would use the color changing thing for comedic effect, like the usual tinting red for blush or embarrassment, stuff like that

Despite having all these options for self customization, I think Vash would keep it pretty human like.

Well— not exactly. He hasn’t been in a place to get the details right so he kinda…fills in the blank spaces with other things!

Like since he hasn’t had the time to peek into someone’s mouth, he has a dog mouth. He’s seen the inside of a dogs mouth lot of times what’s wrong with it? They look cool!

One time him and wolfwood were play fighting and WW had pinned him so Vash started to moved his muscles around to squeeze out and WW got so scared he jumped like a foot in the air and cowered in a corner

Vash doesn’t photosynthesize often because he typically eating so that’s how he gets his energy

But when he’s on the run and another town is a ways away and he’s sooo hungry he just gotta Yknow

one time Meryl and Milly caught up to him while he was doing it and when they approached (after passing once to try to taunt him with water) he jerked out of it in a blink all creepy like

Like they were a yard away from his back and they blinked and now he’s a foot away and facing them all “Hey Ladies!” fym hey ladies bitch move

For his senses I feel like he kind of enjoys being on the run so he’s not constantly overstimulated by all the sounds of towns

Don’t get him wrong he loves towns and people but 24/7 everytime he opened his eyes? He just needs a wee break is all

Smell wise I think he’d keep to a grass kind of scent, it’s all he really knows

So when Meryl or Milly or Wolfwood come up and get personal with him and ask “what are you wearing” after answering cheekily for a while he just goes “nothing, I just smell like this”

Knives Cope

Welcome to the stage Mr. I-Look-Like-This-For-The-Irony and his special talent How Far Can We Push The Human Assumption

One of Knives’ pleasures is seeing how far he can push what he looks and acts like until people start to think he’s not a human

He’s found it’s reasonably far if he’s careful

Voice wise, Knives’ voice really doesn’t change all that often

It gets more erratic based on the people around you and Knives is usually isolated, since he’s not constantly around voices and people like Vash he just has to deal with voice pitching up and down and less imitations

That doesn’t mean it’s never happened

When he and Conrad first teamed up and we’re talking more often about their plans and what’s possible, Conrad thought Knives was warming up and being playful by imitating his voice sometimes

He chuckled once and Knives was like “What’s so funny.” And Conrad brought the voice thing up and Knives was like “That’s unintentional, why would I wanna win your favor I already have it.”

Knives knows his eyes are off putting. He knows very well.

He intentionally makes an overt amount of eye contact until he knows the other person is freaked out

When Knives gets to a point of tension where you can see his blades poking under his skin, he just lets em out

To him it’s his base plant side telling him to free himself of this embarrassing flesh suit so he’s like ah just as nature intended

It could also be why he has the cloak of blades cause he’s always high tension

Back to his stage act, How UnHuman Can We Look Until They Start Actually Thinking I’m Not Human, when it comes to their customization options, Knives likes the keep it just about human

He wants to look like his sisters, but knows he can’t get people to do what he wants if they think he looks too sweet (in his opinion his sisters are adorable)

So he tries to balance both visuals. He’s crazy pale with platinum blonde hair because his sisters are also incredibly pale.

But on the other hand, he keeps himself looking somewhat human because what else to should humanity see at its end but itself?

When he isn’t in public, he likes to look ALOT less human, like biblical Angel.

Knives doesn’t get into situations where he needs to move his muscles around himself to escape anything, the only time he did was when he and Vash were younger and playing around

Unlike Vash, Knives photosynthesizes all the time

He doesn’t like eating, it overwhelms his senses. The sunlight? Oh the sunlight.

Knives feels the same way about the Sun like yearning gays and the moon

He will photosynthesize even if he doesn’t have to, he does it so often he can do it laying down (he looks like a corpse and if you come too close to him while he’s laying there you will get skewered right ways)

Knives remembers more about the flowers Rem showed them and how they smell so usually he’ll choose whichever plant he thinks of first

That’s the end, this took like two days straight there was more in the thinker and reading The Summer Hikaru Died mid way through making it. Can you tell how much I like figuring out how human is human?

[mega-ringsandthings-world]

People have pointed out how triKnives keeping the corpses of his sisters/plants shows how truly dismissive and exploitative of them - and by extension Vash - he is, but I don’t really see it as that. (from one angle yes, the case can certainly be made that him tacking up the dead bodies of his own kin around his piano room shows how fucked in the head he is, but there’s more layers to it) Tristamp Knives is different from other iteration in that he is both more vulnerable and more colder than his counterparts. This is the boy that held his hand out to Rem. The boy who was screaming for someone to save sister plants. The boy who gifted his brother a gun so the brother could kill from a distance. The boy who was screaming “how many times will you steal him?” The boy still desperately pleading while he was burning to death, so on and so forth. But yet, he distances himself from humanity in a way ‘98 and trimax Knives doesn't. And he says he keeps the body of his sister suspended there to remind him, and I think that’s what it actually is. Because, what did he need to remind himself of? He didn’t have the corpses there before he witnessed the Last Run. And sometime after the Last Run, after he cut off Vash’s arm and lost his brother for the second time, is when he puts up the bodies. He could have had doubts, he could have had regrets, even for a person so strong in their convictions. Seeing the plants die all at once changed him, being rejected by Vash changed him, and Knives was still very young then. He could have faltered, could second-guessed himself, could have despaired of ever making the change he wanted, and then became ashamed of his weakness and did something drastic to hold himself to account. Like, yeah, hanging up his dead siblings. Because if there’s one thing Knives does, is do something drastic when confronted with an Issue. And also, there’s something else to consider, maybe it’s a twisted way of honoring his sisters. Of letting them stand free of their glass prisons in death.  Knives must of taken the bodies he displays from the plants after the Last Run, because the bodes are black and burnt, but hundreds of other plants also died, and what happened to their bodies? They aren’t just sick like the red plants still living in their glass tubes, they’re dead. Because, what are the funerary rites for plants? There probably aren't any at all. They’re probably disposed of as bio-organic waste. Did Knives lay the others to rest somehow, or did Knives just dispose of them and just kept those odd four or five back out of all of them, because he managed to keep those at least? Is the one hanging over his piano the one he tries to touch in July? They’re dead, but he can keep them safe in his room. They’re dead, but at least he can give them the company of another plant, himself. They’re dead, but they remind him he’s not to let this happen again. They’re black and burnt and dead, and so will Vash be in every way that matters, but he’ll be safe, and Knives will keep him company. Yeah, maybe displaying bodies in such a way is outwardly extremely exploitative, but one of Knives’ greatest flaws is how he crosses over to the side he despises to ensure he and his are not hurt by that side. His Hannibal Lecter piano room decor is fucked up way of honoring his dead, and as he says, reminding himself that he needs to do what has to be done. 

[staticofthetv]

I did it for Knives, now its his brobro's turn.

Edit: I'd like to apologize for what comes next as I wrote it in one go while hyperactive

Vash's design in tristamp is just as interesting to me as hundred spoons is for very similar but not quite the same reasons. Part of it is still the subverting expectations by having the arguably more angelic character have a darker colour scheme and look like something you wouldn't want to come across at any time of day. With both twins their looks very much align with how they view themselves, knives is pure and angelic and vash is dirty and demonic by comparison.

While it's not a traditional demon look I'd still argue that vash does look it. The most obvious is his iconic red coat, but also consider the massive form he becomes when knives fucks with his head. Yeah it's hauntingly beautiful, especially when you see it from our perspective as the audience but when you look at it from the perspective of the regular people on gunsmoke, that thing growing out of July would absolutely be demonic. It's dark in colour, it's sprouting random flowers (this is important), and most importantly its tearing the city apart.

Focusing on the actions during the fight first, I think it would make sense for the people witnessing it to think Vash is the demon and Knives is the angel trying to save the city. Partly because of Vash being blamed for everything Knives has done already painting him as the bad guy no matter what's actually happening and also the widespread broadcasting of the eye of michael teachings.

Moving onto the flowers and why I think they qualify as demonic. One of the most popular things in modern media that have Lucifer, satan, whatever you wanna call him in it he's the perfect picture of hotness. Everyone wants to be him or be with him, and this makes sense for his purpose in life! He's supposed to tempt people into sin so him having an ass so hot he could tempt even the most devout does hold ground in a portrayal. This fake beauty to hide the hell lying in wait I think is how the people on gunsmoke saw Vash. Even from the audience perspective tree Vash is still kind of a perversion of the classic angelic beauty but for a different reason. Vash is being torn apart mentally in that scene, the amount of anguish is unimaginable. Angels aren't supposed to feel pain like this, they don't get affected by the actions of others. In response his gate basically goes into overdrive to try and protect him but (and this is kinda theory kinda not) Vash's gate isn't like the typical plant gate. The pain he's experiencing isn't angelic and so the physical results of it look like a distorted imitation attempt.

Even then going with the classic version of the devil in media, who in the nicest way possible usually looks like he belongs under a bridge trying to trick children into crossing so he can eat them, I still think fits vash. Having him look so human, especially when put next to Knives, gives off the feeling of ugliness. I'm not saying he actually is, he's very much a pretty plant, BUT it's exactly like comparing a human to an angel. Plus if we look at his scars the feeling of him being less than builds up more. Again I'm not saying scars are ugly, this is an analysis of religious imagery and how I think it lines up with what's written in the Bible as a loser with baptist religious trauma and my own scars to show for it, I just wanna make that clear. The physical appearance of Vash, when compared to Knives at the end of the series very much gives the devil standing next to an angel and it ties into how each twin views themselves once again. Vash's self esteem is already so low it's in hell, he doesn't see himself as beautiful, pure, angelic, whatever. This is reflected in his appearance, he makes an effort to look human and fit in with others because the he sees himself as no better than the worst of them. Meanwhile Knives is touting about with as much angelic energy as his murderous little soul can muster because that's exactly what he thinks he is. An angel, or God himself, with a holy mission of creating a new garden of eden for plants.

Based on what we see during Vash and Knives confrontation when Vash loses his arm and also the plant lore that was revealed recently, Vash has a gate that takes. I don't know if this can be considered theory because Vash's gate has acted like a blackhole multiple times. This ties into my thoughts on the coat and glasses changing colours after he returns from being trapped while still relating to the main point of Vash having demonic energy, I promise.

In the plant lore 1/3 its stated that the power that takes away was sealed away for reasons. Presumably it hasn't been seen in long enough that even the people aboard the SEEDS ship didn't know much about it or don't have any experience with this power. Knives very clearly lines up with the power that brings in his motivations and manifestation of his gate. He's bringing material into the world, he's bringing the planet to a new age, he's bringing the plants to Eden. Vash however is the other side of that coin, the power that takes away. Based on the name alone this power would be considered demonic. Add in the fact that it quite literally manifests as a blackhole and it's very clearly not an angelic power. Vash has stated himself he can't bring anything into the world, only take from it in the form of needing to consume resources to survive. And when under severe emotional distress the distorted imitation of angelic power, also known as demonic power because that's exactly what demonic power is, comes out as a form of instinctual self protection.

It's now late enough and this post is long enough that I'm not sure it makes sense anymore, enjoy fellow tumblr people.

[yurinaa-world]

What about vash, knives, and wolfwood with an independent plant reader with wings and whatever other powers plants have.

Characters: Vash, Nicholas, and Knives x Gentral-neutral Reader

Synopsis: Them with an independent plant

Warnings: fluff

𝒱𝒶𝓈𝒽 "𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝐻𝓊𝓂𝒶𝓃𝑜𝒾𝒹 𝒯𝓎𝓅𝒽𝑜𝑜𝓃"

He would be thrilled to meet his own kind; he would be caring of you and want you to be comfortable around people and him.

When you have a negative view on humans, Vash will try to sway your view by pointing out that not all humans are evil and that there are a lot of nice and kind people out there.

When you pick at the feathers of your pulling whenever you're nervous about something, Vash would try to stop you from pulling and help you calm by showing you other ways to deal with nervousness, like drawing shapes on your hands and arms (do plants even have feathered wings?)

You both share a special bond formed by your shared experiences in the past and when you were together.

𝒩𝒾𝒸𝒽𝑜𝓁𝒶𝓈 𝒟 𝒲𝑜𝓁𝒻𝓌𝑜𝑜𝒹 "𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝒫𝓊𝓃𝒾𝓈𝒽𝑒𝓇"

Nicholas would be protective and caring of you; you both are like outsiders in the world, and you both have a close bond, with him showing a more sensitive side of himself to you.

He doesn’t blame you for not liking humans after the world is filled with disgusting people, and he understands how you feel.

Nicholas won’t touch your wings unless you want him to; he would gently caress, not wanting to hurt you by accident (he's a gentle guy on the inside).

𝒩𝒶𝒾 “𝑀𝒾𝓁𝓁𝒾𝑜𝓃𝓈 𝒦𝓃𝒾𝓋𝑒𝓈”

To knives, you are his; he is very protective of you, like really protective; you're not like those selfish humans; you're worth too much to him to lose you; you're loyal, listening to whatever he asks of you.

While he plays his soft pieces as he usually does with you laying on his lap asleep, once the sweet melody comes to an end, his hands go down to touch your wings and then your hair.

Knives would never afford to get hurt, and whoever dares to do such a thing to you, he’ll make them regret it.

if you liked this, consider tipping me on ko-fi! it'd mean a lot!

[posletsvet]

Something about the stories of Trigun & Hadestown

Something about the story of Orpheus and Eurydice being retold for generations. Something about the story of Trigun getting to be told in three different versions (four, if you consider that there are two mangas).

Something about red flowers being the key symbol in Hadestown, with Orpheus singing dead trees to life and bloom in a gesture of undying hope. Something about Rem's sacrifice turning the blossom of a red geranium into a symbol of determination and kindness.

Something about the lost gentleness and bliss of spring. Something about the lost paradise of the once prosperous Earth, which forced the mankind to eplore the frontiers of distant galaxies.

Something about the souls of the dead in Hadestown living with their heads bent down, silenced by their own fear and indifference. Something about the people of Gunsmoke doing the same, believing there's no other choice but to succumb to violence and afraid to raise their voices and speak out against it.

Something about both stories commenting upon how humanity is sacrificed for the sake of survival.

Something about Hades, the King of the Mine, being crippled and blinded by his greed and loneliness and despair and jealousy untill he can't see nor recognise anything other than the needs of the Underworld, but really just his own. Something about Knives being driven by the fear he hides deep within himself, only caring about Vash and their sisters and claiming it's the good of the plantkind that he aspires to achieve, but in actuality just nurturing his own old hurt.

Something about them both loving to the point of obsession and suffocating the ones they love with how they portray what is best for them.

Something about Persephone being blinded by a river of wine, living in an Oblivion and trying to drown her sorrow in alcohol. Something about Vash's issues with alcoholism deteriorating upon the realisation that him going to confront Knives is a march made towards ruin and despair, his goals as good as suicidal.

Something about the Fates always singing in the back of your mind, defining the outlines of people's lives. Something about Knives and Vash's sisters in a hive mind deciding on the fate of humanity in relation to their kind at the end of the story.

Something about each of the two narratives showing how life and love endures, even in trying times.

Something about hunger and biting the hand that feeds because you're starving for more. Something about taking what you can get and making the most of it. Something about the people of No Man's Land pushing the plants to their physical limit and sentencing them to agony of the last run because they see no other option.

Something about 'What you gonna do when the chips are down, / Now that the chips are down?' Something about the pods of the project SEEDS crash-landing on a barren and desolate planet.

Something about the chorus singing 'Cast your eyes to heaven / You get a knife in the back!/ Nobody's righteous, / Nobody's proud, / Nobody's innocent'. Something about how Wolfwood dies the instant he finally commits to Vash's ideals, for the first time in his life choosing to believe.

Something about Orpheus teaching Eurydice that there's still hope for the better. Something about Wolfwood starting to regain his trust in humanity through Vash.

Something about Orpheus being capable of seeing how the world could be, in spite of the way that it was. Something about Vash stubbornly refusing to stop believing there's inherent goodness in every person's soul.

Something about how Eurydice is destined to die in each telling of the myth because the story is non-existent without Orpheus' loss of her. Something about how Wolfwood is doomed by the narrative, being a dead man walking since the very beginning.

Something about Orpheus leading his one true love out of Hell. Something about Wolfwood leading Vash in instead, guiding him to his end.

Something about Orpheus singing 'Wait for me!' on his way down under the ground. Something about Vash rushing to that smoking ruin which the Hopeland Orphanage became in order to help Wolfwood, fearing that he's late.

Something about Orpheus looking back. Something about Vash bringing his century-and-a-half long run from every and all attachments to a hault and finally stopping to look at the person before him, for the first time in his life allowing himself to believe in a future spent together with someone.

Something about Orpheus losing Eurydice the moment he turns to cast a glance behind him. Something about how the next thing Vash learns after admitting that he wants to spend his tomorrows with Wolfwood by his side is that Wolfwood is dying.

Something about Orpheus reaching the end of the road out of the Underworld all alone. Something about Vash ending his journey the same way.

Something about knowing how the story ends and still beginning to sing it again, as if it might turn out this time. Something about how 'far from here, in a distant time and place, the same song of humanity... still sang'.

Something about love. Something about grief. Something about tragedies.

Something about how, after all, we're still singing.

There's something profoundly meaningful to be said about all this, and maybe some day I will be insightful and witty enough to put my scrambled thoughts into neatly-organised, clear-cut sentences, but for now it will be like that.

[twin-wings]

There's a lot to unpack about Vash's perception of his own nature and powers, and how his self-worth is inextricably connected to his ability to help others. This is a very interesting topic for me, so I'm going to share my thoughts.

Several times in the manga we see Vash express how unconcerned he is about his own safety and, in a sense, how little he cares about his own life. Part of it is obviously due to guilt and trauma after the destruction of July and the Fifth Moon incident, but I get the impression that it's not just that.

Vash is aware that he is sturdier than humans, and something that would kill a normal person leaves at most a scar on him (not to mention how he could restore his own body if he wanted, like Knives does). His physical capabilities are generally far superior than those of a normal human. This in itself puts a heavy responsibility on his shoulders: he can do a lot more than anyone else, so he feels like he should. Vash is unable to stand still when others are in trouble, knowing he could do something to help them, and he always does absolutely everything in his power before giving up.

This trait is shown very clearly in the chapter where Vash helps a young man rescue his parents despite being sick himself. Wolfwood's shocked reaction at the time was understandable, since from his point of view it was an extremely reckless thing to do, but that chapter shows the extent to which Vash is willing to go to help people, no matter how much he has to risk. In a way, I think it also shows how aware he is of his own capabilities and limits, since he did manage to be of great help depite feeling unwell.

(Vash is too cute in this panel XD)

On top of this, his own brother is the one who caused the Great Fall, and Vash feels he has a responsibility to stop him because he is the only one who can face Knives as an equal. He's been doing this for a long time: watching over the people on the planet, protecting them from Knives' destructiveness, in order to preserve Rem's legacy and protect the people she gave her life to save. His whole life has pretty much revolved around this very purpose, to the point that his own safety has become almost irrelevant.

Besides, the fact that he and Knives are both Plants ��� the only two independent Plants on the planet – is the reason they're all in this situation in the first place. Vash is the only person (other than Conrad) who knows the full story behind the Great Fall, who knows exactly what Knives' motivations are and what prompted him to start his crusade of hate. If Vash and Knives hadn't been Plants, if they hadn't been so different from humans and so much more powerful than them, all of this wouldn't have happened. Being an independent Plant has been more of a curse than anything else for Vash over the years, hence his complicated feelings about his own nature.

On the other hand, Knives totally embraces his nature: he sees it as a source of pride and feels superior for it. He's spent years researching and studying his powers with the help of Conrad, which allowed him to master them to a degree Vash only learns to do toward the end of the manga, after overcoming his initial fear of the destruction he's capable of causing.

This is one of the many ways the twins are so different: while Vash was spending decades honing his skills to help people, using very human methods to do so, Knives was working toward his goal of exterminating all humans by learning how to control his Plant abilities.

But it's also interesting that when Vash seriously starts using his Plant powers, he learns to use them in ways Knives hadn't even considered.

[nanomooselet]

Episode Eight: Our Home

When this episode was first airing I saw someone describe it as "com[ing] for your feels with a rusty shiv" and it sure does! It sure does. It'll only get worse from here on out. :D

Little sprouts in their little hats! This scene is so friggin' cute and the show ruins it by cutting straight to the aftermath of the crash. Unfair.

The first time I watched this, I realised that Nai wasn't "evil" from the start. That is, he wasn't always... like he is now. I think he truly loved Rem and Vash, though he might have only realised how much later on. But on rewatch, I also don't think Vash's memories of his childhood with Nai carry the same level of nostalgic longing that Knives does for his memories. In the few short minutes he's being recorded, here are three things that Nai does.

Upset Vash by acting as though food - judging by Vash's reaction - makes Vash less of a Plant.

Play a prank by convincing Rem of something that isn't true.

Show affection to his brother... after Vash goes along with it and Rem falls for it.

I think, for Vash, the discovery they eventually made wasn't so violently unlike what he'd come to expect that he couldn't handle it. Vash believed he could rely on Rem to accept him and that was all he really needed. But what did Nai believe he had? His brother. He could rely on Vash to back him up, to play along, to understand. Vash seemingly being lesser, being other (like Rem) made Nai feel lonely. And though this touches on the manga* more than what we've so far seen in Stampede, I think Knives is far more of an idealist than Vash has ever been, even now.

Vash wants a better world, and he's willing to work for it, to fail, and to try again. He knows what it's like to fall short.

Knives wants a perfect world, and perfection admits no mistakes.

I just damn near made myself cry thinking about Rem and what she considers her mistakes MOVING ON.

THIS ISN'T AN IMPROVEMENT although it is a lovely colour scheme.

When Nai reveals the truth about the crash (or what he believes to be the truth; Knives cannot be relied upon as a source of information even a little bit), Vash flees. He continues to flee; even lying in the sand, it's to seek some kind of escape - not a good kind, but that's what it is. "I want this all to end./I don't want to be here." He can't, of course. Not before humans find him. We're survivors. For all our many faults, evolution didn't select for us giving up or failing to help each other, especially in the wake of such a disaster.

It's true that Brad and Luida aren't initially accepting of Vash, but it's Vash who frames himself in terms of usefulness, echoing Nai. It's Vash who seems to believe he shouldn't live unless he can... somehow make up for what "he" did. Luida doesn't know that. She sees another survivor, wrestling with the same guilt. I think the way she speaks with him may have been how she coped herself - and perhaps the way for Brad too, come to think of it. He acts like a paranoid dick, but when given a lead to pursue, he runs right off to dig through wreckage and bodies for some sign of Rem and finds the only shreds of comfort Vash was likely to get. They both have something to do. While I do wish Vash had chosen to live for the sake of living, I think what's keeping him in that bare little room isn't that he's an unproductive Plant or the hatred of humans (at least not just that). It's a trap he built for himself. As long as he does nothing, he's doing nothing wrong and he's not adding to the burden he already bears. They shouldn't trust him, not after what he did.

So when Luida trusts him to help the dying Plant as Rem's blank ticket story plays, she's making a choice. And that's to allow Vash to make his own choice: to live, even with his guilt.

The montage of him travelling around helping Plants! He teaches people how to take care of them properly! It makes him so happy!

So I really, really hope the speculation is wrong and Vash isn't burning himself out doing that. It seems paranoid, and it doesn't feel intuitively true the way some of my other speculation has, but that might just be wishful thinking. I definitely can't rely on Vash admitting it if it is true. I really hope he has at least one nice thing he doesn't pay for with his blood. :(

When Nai's influence re-emerges, so to does the burden of guilt, death and destruction he represents. It's funny that Brad's impulsive anger and mistrust is what drives Vash to seek his brother out - where Vash is going, he'll find plenty more of that.

One more thing. In the shot where Vash enters the Plant carrier (the city of July, or at least, the site where it'll be built in future), it zooms in to show Nai, standing. But if you look very closely as it does? He's rising to his feet from a kneeling position. I wonder what would have happened if Vash had entered a little earlier?

*Reading Maximum in like two days and then watching the final three/four episodes of Stampede was a terrible idea.

[iwritenarrativesandstuff]

Meryl, Luida, and Bridging the Gap

This is just a quick little side-note I wanted to make about the similarities between Meryl and Luida that I noticed as I was reading, and how they end up occupying similar, yet complementing roles in the story.

***Disclaimer: I was sick when I wrote this and my head is full of fog lmao. If I have completely left out a word or something... don't even worry about it it's fine.

First off, on a surface level, they both are characterized as capable, intelligent, level-headed women, who are suddenly thrust into leadership positions, with Meryl being assigned the task of tracking down and mitigating the damage caused by Vash the Stampede plus looking out for her new protégé, Milly, and Luida stepping up to take charge of Ship 3 and its residents after Doc's death.

While the demand placed on them both is immense, nonetheless, they are shown to be quite capable of shouldering this kind of responsibility - however, given their intense focus and objective-driven personalities, they actually both get scenes where they are somewhat horrified by their own temporary prioritization of objectives over morality. We see this with Meryl in Trigun Volume 1 when she doesn't react in righteous anger to Badwick threatening his parents and had shut herself off from writing to her own in pursuit of her job, and with Luida when she briefly considers the idea of another July incident to stop Knives. Both think negatively of themselves for this - of course, I'm of the mind that since they are upset with themselves on reflection, this proves the exact opposite, really. I think they both have hearts of gold, they're just under a lot of stress, especially as time goes on. The two of them are human beings who falter, but whose morals ultimately align closely with what Vash wants to see in the world. Really, what the two of them hate most here is the idea of their own inaction or taking the easy way in the face of wrongdoing - a concept that drives them into action going forward.

[ID: Two images from Trigun and Trigun Maximum. The first is from Trigun Volume 1. Over images of trees and Badwick's father, Meryl says "But I... I just stood there and took it all in without even budging. I am such a cold person. I chose this path of blood and tears without thinking about the rest of my life. All I can see is what's right in front of me." Meryl starts to cry as she continues, "Why could I not see... that when I closed myself off to him, something was wrong? I..." She then slaps her cheeks and says "No... never mind!" The second image is from Trigun Maximum Volume 8. A single tear runs down Luida's cheek. Meryl says "Miss Luida...?" Her back turned to Meryl, Luida says "I'm sorry. I... was thinking for a moment. If something like July would happen again... it could stop Knives, but... ... I'm a terrible woman. End ID.]

Both of them also have a connection to Vash's past that gives them a different perspective on him as a person, instead of just an ally - Meryl, of course, gets brain-blasted in Volume 5 with Vash's memories (poor thing), but Luida is also more familiar with him than even a lot of the people on Ship 3, it seems - enough that she calls him out for blaming himself after the attack, clearly used to hearing this from him. She also is the one to clear up at least some of Wolfwood's confusion and uncertainty.

We also get this interesting parallel of them both watching Vash walk away to face Knives, him having rejected their offers of help. It's something that clearly saddens them both, as they watch him fight alone again and again, and wish he wouldn't. Both of them have moments where they feel they can't offer much in the way of assistance, or that their best efforts aren't enough.

[ID: Two images from Trigun and Trigun Maximum. The first is from Trigun Volume 2. Vash, his back turned, runs off into the chaos, a Plant seen above him and the city ahead, as he yells back "Get as far away from here as you can! Get to safety!" Meryl watches him from the door. In the second image, from Trigun Maximum Volume 8, a grainy flashback shows Vash's turned back as he walks away from a young Luida, who is reaching out to him. End ID.]

Of course, we the readers know this isn't true at all! Meryl and Luida do so much over the course of the story.

Interestingly, they don't start off as the ones completely in charge - Meryl works for Bernadelli even if she is in charge of her assignment, and Luida is presumably part of the Council, but the one in charge is initially Doc. But once they do take over - Luida after Doc's death, and Meryl once the world is thrown into ruins and Bernadelli no longer exists - there is a striking difference in the way they act from their predecessors.

Meryl goes from simply following Vash around to taking a self-directed and active role in assisting him however she can - looking for his old belongings and anything else of potential use, asking Marlon to repair his gun, creating a distraction with Milly, and helping the Earth Federation in the final hour with no hesitation.

Luida takes a much more active role in rallying Ship 3 to assist Vash as well. While some of this may simply have been because the stakes were raised much higher after Volume 3, Ship 3, while already a base of support for Vash, was a distant safe haven, kept largely separate from the rest of the world. Up until that point, they had provided Vash with aid, but not fought alongside him, something that clearly bothers Luida on multiple occasions. She decides to change this. She's the one who sets out to help as many of the towns ravaged by the Ark as possible. She rallies the Ship 3 residents for a rescue mission to help Vash. She's the one to step forward and attempt to bring all the leaders around to standing with Vash.

Which brings me to my last comparison point. They're both staunchly supportive of Vash, quick to come to his aid, and quick to defend his character from those who doubt his intent - Luida even sharply calls out her own people for their moment of mistrust after hearing about July. These two know and care about Vash on a more personal level than most - and as we all know, due to his avoidant tendencies, this is not an easy thing to do. Vash is frequently misinterpreted, and these two are often the ones to set the record straight.

[ID: A panel from Trigun Maximum Volume 3. Luida, sternly, says "That's a foolish question. You would know the answer just by looking at the scars on his body. If he had used his true immortality, those scars would not be there. End ID.]

In this way, much like Vash is a bridge between humans and Plants, Meryl and Luida are something of a bridge between humans and Vash.

And they're able to do this because deep down, their ideals align closely with his - they're not just supporting someone they care about; they have a similar desire to see the kind of world he fights for, and they choose to fight for it too.

But while Luida is something of a spokesperson for Vash, reaching out to humanity, it is almost as if Meryl becomes the voice of humanity reaching back, responding to him, and agreeing that not everything in the world is awful; that it is worth believing in the best in others. They need to stand together.

[ID: A panel from Trigun Maximum Volume 14. Meryl, in a spacesuit, with frank determination, says, "Because we decided to stand together. We stand with Vash the Stampede." End ID.]

Meryl is the voice of proof that some people believe in the love and peace he speaks of, and are willing to say it back to him in turn.

Updated on my masterpost - my other book club stuff can be found here!

[the-nysh]

How do you think redeeming Knives went after the ‘98 ending? Not sure how Vash would reign in him

Welcome to the plot of countless fanfics exploring that very same question since the turn of the millennium!! 8'D

Understandable, since the 98 anime's ending was left deliberately open-ended (its plot way different from the manga too, since it hadn't been completed yet), with every other major character dead save for the brothers and Meryl & Milly, it's heavily implied Vash returned home - to the girls, as he was trusted to, while carrying the incapacitated Knives over his shoulder (while leaving all his/their guns and red coat behind, since those items were symbolically no longer needed anymore) rather than leaving on a one-way suicide mission where he & Knives would end up killing each other. No, Vash made the independent decision to survive and properly 'take care' of Knives the way their mother Rem wished for them -to live- upon her sacrificial goodbye. After Vash finally realizes/interprets what she meant after going through some huge life-changing revelations himself (especially from Meryl's successful non-violent demonstration in saving him, proving to him that Rem's belief, and having faith in humanity, actually works after suffering thru so many repeated failures where it didn't), it's important he chooses not to die, or kill, or abandon or give up on even his own brother as a lost cause too. :') So I think it's appropriate he perseveres in saving Knives too (with Vash essentially taking responsibility as the 'older' brother now), while holding firm onto the belief of a hopeful 'blank ticket' open future...even for those like himself, who've terribly wronged. After all, survival, recovery, and kindness are a choice. And definitely not easy. Especially on their harsh, unforgiving desert planet. But at least 98 Knives is alive to recover enough that he gets that choice of a future too.

And so...your guess is as good as mine as to what's implied post-canon when we get official art like this! (As amusingly noted: Knives gets his second chance forced into family group therapy as the petulant 'younger' brother now~) Where I definitely think it would take a group effort, and not just from Vash himself, to reform Knives with the right kind of therapy needed (both physical and emotional, since yup Vash basically shot thru all his limbs and Knives himself still has unaddressed childhood trauma from the SEEDS' ship to consider - note, cause the Tesla medical abuse incident never happened in the 98 canon to mentally scar him for life, BUT it's implied child Knives directly suffered some form of physical abuse from the prejudiced bad apples on their ship's crew behind closed doors that not even Vash knew about, so yeah.)

I've seen fics where it's absolutely not smooth sailing (for example, on the common premise where Vash has no clue or plan on how to deal with bringing Knives home--cold turkey style, to the girls), where Knives continues to be a dangerous threat and menace - especially towards the girls, even while physically incapacitated - since he still has mental powers of telepathy and manipulative coercion/brainwashing, etc etc (available fic Plant powers may vary - BUT since 98 Legato had Vash's grafted-on lost arm and used those--Vash's powers for evil, it's implied Vash has all those same powers too, the same or even greater than Knives, he's just untrained and/or chooses not to use them on people Like That. The interesting potential being that...Vash could. This is why structurally, 98 Legato works well as Vash's foil, and is arguably more of the 'main villain' than 98 Knives was, and also why Vash killing Legato, and therefore part of himself in the process, has some interesting layers/nuances to it that even the Trimax manga didn't have, since the lore was completely different. But anyway I'm going off-tangent...)

So overcoming Knives' fear/hatred/disgust towards humanity is one of the biggest hurdles to address. Again this where I often see the girls come in, especially the continued exposure and positive reinforcement from Milly's grace, often while he's still recovering and bedridden from his injuries fighting Vash, to slowly help 'restore his faith in humanity' kinda deal. I've even seen the fic idea where Milly raising her -speculated- child from Wolfwood gives Knives a whole new closeup perspective on human life he never got before. (Bottom line, I understand why all the post-canon Milly-Knives fics seemed to be popular back then.) But I think the creative ideas I find particularly interesting are the ones that capitalize on the telepathic link between Vash & Knives - where Knives can pick up on the thoughts/feelings Vash happens to broadcast while interacting with say...Meryl ;) to Knives' shock/confusion! that by proxy affect Knives' curiosity towards humans like her. Cause if he can sense how his brother can feel something like that towards them, different from how it ever was with Rem, then wtf is up with that?! Aha, many fun shenanigans can ensue with that!

Even better is when I see fics delve into some of Knives' deeper issues, like his broken levels of trust and feelings of betrayal, loneliness and abandonment he possibly fears even from Vash (after all, Rem 'chose' humanity over them, and Vash left him to 'choose' humanity over him too - having those kinds of doubts to come clean about.) There's some good stuff to explore there, on the topic of normal dysfunctional/estranged brothers trying to reconcile and reconnect as family again, and I'm sure there are plenty of 98 Knives-centric fics focusing on his redemption that I haven't even seen yet (the ones I ended up not liking are those that flip or roleswap to give Vash the short end of the stick, ie they redeem and give Knives all the happiness at the expense of Vash; now that's just unfair!) It's just...searching on the older sites like ff.net for that kinda stuff is difficult to know what you're getting into without appropriate tagging, so heck, even I'd be up for hidden recs people have found on the topic!

[serenephenix]

When I look at some of the takes some people have on Trigun - and especially Stampede - I am always surprised how they are arguing about how either Knives or Vash has to be right in their ideology, when their dilemma isn't as simple as just "picking a side".

We have a story of two men who are, at their core, extremists on two different ends of the spectrum.

And while both their sides and arguments hold merit and should be taken into account, ultimately, their way of doing things is flawed.

Vash is not being reprimanded by other characters because everyone else is a jerk, but because his pacifism and his passiveness do create problems for him and others at times.

Knives is not wrong in wanting a better life for PLANTS, but him actively making the choice to kill all of humanity for his sisters without consideration of their feelings and wishes isn't right as well.

And calling people names because they might identify more with one or the other side of the argument does not make anyone look smart. It gives the impression that you are missing a big point that is being blatently explained (in Trimax):

Life is, seldom, black and white. In order to discuss things that are difficult and upsetting, you absolutely need to consider a lot of different "grey" areas.

[hikennosabo]

trimax vol 14 random thoughts (ch 5-8)

okay enough stalling... let's get this done... HOO BOY

chapter 5:

i love how vash is drawn in these panels... and vash waking up from hearing meryl's words... WAAHHHHH...

GET UP COWARD (<- lyric from my chemical romance's 2022 single 'the foundations of decay' which i may or may not be considering for a vash playlist)

oh, i LOVE this image of knives covering his face...

hmhmhm... the way knives addresses the other plants is... gentle, almost?

"sorrow and grief," huh... over the humans trying to communicate with them? those are the kinds of emotions this scenario is bringing out? there is something there but... i don't quite know what it is...

uwahhh... i do love this image...

"we were united in hatred" -> "i feel a murmur of fear"... hmmm. sounds like knives himself, who buried his fear underneath hatred... am i connecting any dots???

but fear in communicating with humans... fear because communication is scary in general? fear because of the abuse humans have put plants through? fear of uncertainty of what this communication will result in?

the tiniest merylmilly u can imagine...

they ask if it's safe, but it's not like vash cares if it's safe, he's been prepared to die for several volumes now, so... he's probably thinking "if i die i die," lol. (<- in pain)

this is a cute expression...

"don't touch me," he says...

knives trying to incorporate himself with the fused plants - now it's HIS turn to go "if i die i die" i guess LJSDKLFDS... both him and vash risking it all for their ideals. they really are brothers...

vash's "grant me that ticket"... it doesn't directly address god, but it feels like a prayer nonetheless.

chapter 6:

wah... meryl's strength gives vash strength... wahhh... is this the first time they've... well, "talked about it" isn't the right phrase, but is this the first time vash understands what meryl was going through that time when she flinched away from him?

"what matters is that you communicate. that you understand the person next to you is breathing and existing." ugh, fuck, i can feel myself getting weepy again.

the people getting good AND bad memories from the plants.. good! good! they said a few volumes ago that most(?) of the population has gathered in this city, so this really is everyone?! individual normal people couldn't do much about plant abuse, but now that EVERYONE understands, things can change! they can acknowledge what's happened, and they can change, and move forward!!

and vash being the bridge, the point of commonality between humans and plants... uaaghgh it's so interesting because for a long time vash's reputation among the humans was one of destruction. but in this moment everyone understands who he really is and what he wants. ueueeueueue....

also. this pattern of receiving traumatic memories via feathers, and to come out the other side not with fear and hatred but with increased compassion and understanding... sounds like what happened between vash and meryl, doesn't it?

"i've never made a promise like this before, but today i'd like to try" UAAGHGHHG.G U AHGHGHGHG.

haha. hey. why does it look like he's been crying. i'm going to throw up.

i don't know if the rest of this post will be comprehensible.

chapter 7:

what do i even say here.

hey remember the chapter title "king of loneliness." i'm gonna go eat rocks now.

even now, he's stubbornly clinging to his ideals, thinking he's in too deep, that he's gone too far to turn back...

oh, this is getting to me, the way it's worded. "caught up in something too big" and the panel of them as kids. they were just kids when this all started. this was too big for them. knives was a kid, a traumatized, scared kid who made a very bad, very destructive decision, and he has lived his life up until this point digging his heels in, growing more and more twisted, more controlling and violent, trying to justify his own actions to himself because how do you carry something like that.

"kill me, vash, there's nowhere else for me to go." literally two chapters ago vash said "where am i going? what's there left to see?" i'm fucking eating rocks.

"even though we were apart for so long, we were still brothers. but i was the one who broke away..." knives looks so pained when he thinks this. now, after all this, he's finally feeling regret, or letting himself feel regret. in the last possible moment.

...or so he thinks. vash has a clear shot, the opportunity to kill knives, and knives wants vash to kill him, he expects it - but vash protects him instead. with his last bullet. despite knives's blade going through his torso. despite everything. despite EVERYTHING!!!!! vash has EVERY REASON to hate knives, to KILL knives, and he STILL chooses not to!!!! i'm not okay i'm crying again

in 98, rem tells vash "take care of knives"... this is pretty much the same thing... i don't want to say this is necessarily another thing nightow took from 98 because of course this is what she said, what else would she have said at that time?

the beginning of the chapter had vash struggling to remember what rem said, but the preceding pages imply it's knives remembering her words... or maybe they both are...

this is fucking getting to me, fuck, i'm crying again!!! fuck!!!!

also, oh, chronica IS still alive... honestly i was (and still am) so caught up in the twins that that information just immediately left my brain the first time around LMAO...

i am so. fucking. unwell. about knives's expressions in this scene. he's feeling so many things at once. i just... the fact that vash protects knives and picks him up to haul him away... he ISN'T leaving knives on his own, even in the end, even after everything that's happened... and knives is just. what IS he feeling? shock, disbelief, regret... love, can i say love?? love for his brother?? the love between them that never went away, despite everything?? i am gonna fucking throw up

i don't know where to put this in the post because it occurred to me while i was proofreading, but knives stabbed vash, felt shock and regret, and then acted to save him... which sounds awfully similar to what happened between rem and vash, huh?

this, with knives's hair turning black... new hair, new outlook, right?

will you drive me back, can you take me home... (<- lyrics from gerard way's 'brother' from his 2014 solo album 'hesitant alien')

oh, the fact that they sprouted wings like this in the stampede s1 finale is gonna make it hit SOOOO MUCH HARDER once THIS scene gets adapted. this is such a beautiful spread, a beautiful moment... i'm gonna cry again...

LIVIO!!!! TO THE RESCUE!!!! also... that's not a double fang, whose gun is that?

WOLFWOOD!!!!! WWWAHHHHGHGHGHH!!!!! the "turn around and he's gone" scene is SUCH a cliche but FUCK!!!!!! IT'S GETTING TO ME!!!!!!

chapter 8:

i feel so normal i feel so normal (affirmations) (lying)

i can't. i can't type. i'm crying too much. this is love. it's just love.

his last act, knowing that it will kill him, is an act of love. love for his brother. so vash can eat. so the doctor and his kid can eat. and as time goes on it'll grow bigger and be able to feed more people. food as a love language. i'm crying and sobbing.

knives understands he has no place in this world, especially after everything he's done, and the world needs vash more than him... that vash can't live in the world as long as they're together... he doesn't even tell vash himself that he intended to disappear... it's his choice, he walks his path with pride... but i'd like to believe they were able to spend some time together before this. just being brothers. TALKING. eating together. sleeping next to each other. hugging?? apologizing?? knives finally being a good brother after so long and taking care of vash?? making up for lost time. i'd like to imagine it. let me imagine it.

i've been thinking this for a while but i actually do think that vash would forgive knives if knives expressed regret and asked for forgiveness. because vash is jesus and all, and that's how sin and forgiveness work in christianity, if you believe and repent you will be forgiven, etc... i don't know if vash would forgive knives right away - he is very, very human after all - but i definitely think he could. and maybe he did. maybe they had that talk.

phew. okay, i'm finished crying now, and BOY was it a big cry. not any easier the second time around. anyway.

does he really need a wig? if he doesn't spike up his hair, that would be effective by itself, since it's one of his identifiers according to the earth forces...

DOES THIS CONFIRM THAT VASH CAN'T GROW A BEARD WITHOUT EFFORT? like since his plant powers are completely drained he can no longer grow a beard???

AHHHH... VASH'S BIG SMILE!!!!! and everyone's wearing their old clothes, and with a bunch of guys comically chasing vash around, yeah, this is really all for callback's sake... we've come so far, and full circle.

meryl's lecture to him is so typically meryl LOL... he DID NOT keep his promise LMAO

the fucking jojo sound effects are cracking me up HDSFKSFJDFS

also everyone who complained about stampede """changing""" meryl into a reporter owes me $100 right fucking now. that was a complaint i saw SO MUCH. i thought it was a bit strange myself, but i figured orange had a reason, and now i know. those complainers know NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!!!!!

meryl frantically reading from her script and milly's big smile... cute... also WHAT DO YOU MEAN WARDROBE MALFUNCTIONS LMAO?? are they planning on stripping him?? vash the stampede nip slip???

AAHHHHH LIVIO GREW HIS HAIR OUT AGAIN!!!!! and he's at wolfwood's grave... oh fuck i said i was done crying GODDAMMIT!!!!

okay. okay i'm done for real now. man. man. what do i say. what can i say.

"the same song of humanity still sang." and what a beautiful song it is.

i don't really know how to conclude this post... just. wow. what a journey this was. i don't think i've ever cried this much over a manga, lol... i... had a really good time!

[galactiquest]

not an imagine but another thought. in the trigun maximum manga (I think) Knives experiences some memories of various plants and is shakena bit because it shows both the plant and human crew she's a part of treating her like an actual member of the community and expressing gratitude towards her and treating her like an actual person while the plant herself seems to feel genuine fondness and joy at these humans even smiling back at them. Only for a scene of like dozens of human crewmates who all seem to feel similarly

and I got to wonder how would he react to seeing more such memories. of humans treating plants with genuine kindness and concern for their wellbeing beyond just what they can get out of them. finally getting to if not agree with vash or think he's maybe wrong, then at least start to at least understand his point. just getting a more neuenced view of humanity.

Oh you're definitely right about that, I think it's really interesting.

I think Knives has such ripe potential for growth, and a lot of writers don't really see that so much, which is sad!

Speaking of writers exploring this, if you want some more in-depth explorations of Knives...

fakekniferealketchup's teacup initiation (which talks about his relationship with Tesla, or lack thereof)...

also by my friend FKRK, wreckage of july (where the reader scrapes the bloody lump he became after july off the streets)...

psyhost22's (that's me!) Paradise, Lost (a re-exploration of the scene where Knives is shot in the leg)...

also by me, Unfulfiller of Dreams (where Knives has a dream about the scopes of humanity, and how things could have been different)

... this is to say that me and my friend are in the trenches when it comes to Knives content, getting gangrene and such together

In essence, the only humans that Knives has ever willingly been exposed to are Rem and [maybe] some of the experimenters on the SEEDS ships. Otherwise, the humans he comes into contact with become his henchmen, or are quickly turned into people sausage. No comment.

One could say then that the burden of teaching humanity to Knives would fall on his mother, Rem, but that's not really true, either. How was she supposed to know that he would grow up like this? How was she supposed to know his reaction to Tesla's files?

And look at Vash--he turned out fine.

It was just two different trauma reactions to the same event. Basically...

I think if he saw more memories like that, he'd eventually break down. I don't think he can live in a world where his ideals that he's held about humanity for over a century are suddenly shattered. It's why he had to force his sisters to "work" with him, because otherwise, he'd probably have very few who felt so strongly as he did about humans.

I feel like it'd cause him to isolate himself for another century to think about all that he's done, and possibly consider that he may have been wrong this whole time.

[avitus-ostrander]

On Knives and Plants

I see a lot of people saying that Knives does not care about plants. That he treats them like things and takes away their agency.

Firstly, what agency?

Did they choose to be put in tanks and used for their ability to create? When they’re dying, do they say to someone “hey, I’m about to die. Please force me to use up all of my energy in one last, painful burst if it will make your lives better.”?

Could Knives go about things better? Of course. There are areas where one can say he is objectively in the wrong - that he is objectively doing something selfish. But when it comes to plants, I disagree.

I’ve seen people say all he cares about in Stampede is reaching the higher dimension. Why, though? What purpose does that serve if not to ultimately help the plants? He wants them all to be independent, like him.

In Stampede, Conrad says the plants are soulless husks. That that’s the difference between Vash and Knives and other plants. He says their true being is located elsewhere and their physical forms are just a window between those worlds.

If Knives feels this way, does it not stand to reason that he feels this because that is what he was taught?

Conrad also says that in order to give the plants souls, they must connect to the core.

Knives doesn’t need the core to help himself. If everything he does is selfish, there is no reason to include the plants at all.

If he considered himself better than them - if he thought they were soulless husks - he could just kill them. He doesn’t need their power in order to wipe out what remains of humanity. He can do that on his own. He made the ships crash without the help of plants. He destroyed Jeneora Rock using his own abilities.

He doesn’t even need to expend the kind of power he did at Jeneora Rock if he wants to kill humans. Knives could go from town to town, destroying these ‘inferior’ plants and leaving the people behind to suffer and die.

He doesn’t do that. He brings the plants with him. In Stampede, the red ones are to further his goals.

One could argue that is selfish.

Is it worse, however, than humans doing it? Knives is one of them. He believes he is using the last of their energy for something that will ultimately benefit all plants. The plants cannot fully articulate their will. Knives has to interpret it. He sees them suffering and it hurts him and he wants that to stop.

One could argue that he only does this to ease his own pain.

He is almost certainly projecting, to a degree. He knows how he would feel in that position. He is scared of what it means when he sees how little humans value the lives of plants.

I don’t think that means he doesn’t care about them. I don’t think it means he doesn’t feel for them.

Re-l makes some very good points about his behavior toward plants in the manga in this post. https://www.tumblr.com/re-l/713763378777227264/idk-i-guess-the-comparisons-between-tristamp-and?source=share

I agree with most of that. (Except where it concerns his behavior in Stampede, for the reasons I’ve mentioned above).

However, I will get into the manga myself a little bit here.

Knives lives his whole life in service of one goal. He says himself (Trimax vol. 8, ch. 2) that his only purpose is to save the imprisoned plants. He doesn’t say his goal is to destroy humanity. He just says that is an acceptable side effect of his actions.

When the plants ultimately abandon him, he says he’ll keep fighting, but only shortly after that he wishes for Vash to kill him. (Trimax vol. 14, ch. 7)

I’ve seen people complain about how he handles the dead plants in Stampede. In the manga, he and Vash both acknowledge that humans throw away plant corpses like garbage. (Trimax vol. 8, ch. 1) Many human funeral rites are designed to give peace to the living, but Knives is not going to find peace in using human rituals for dead plants.

Could he have come up with something better than decorating his piano room with them? Maybe. But I believe it is unfair to say he is wholly selfish there.

Look at how he reacts during the Last Run.

Here is a close-up of Knives’ expression in this scene. He looks like he is about to cry before he redirects that into anger.

And here is what he is seeing as he makes that face.

He reaches out to the plants. He demands that Conrad save them.

When the plants die, Knives falls to his knees. He isn’t attacking anyone yet. He doesn’t care about how he is perceived or about trying to act strong. He is truly devastated. It isn’t until Vash shows up that he composes himself. And it isn’t until Vash does not react to the plight of the plants that he becomes violent.

Plants are, arguably, the only thing Knives cares about in a way that is not twisted and selfish. He is willing to die for them.

He gives everything for them, in every iteration of Trigun.

[clamityganon]

let’s look at the name valentinez alkalinella xifax sicidabohertz gombigobilla blue stradivari talentrent pierre andri charton-haymoss ivanovici baldeus george doitzel kaiser III and its significance to vash’s character

valentinez -> valentine -> love and peace!!!

alkalinella -> alkaline -> relating to a common disposable battery made of zinc and manganese dioxide. hmm. a battery is used by humans for power….

xifax -> internet fax service -> old technology adapted for a new generation, continuing to be of use despite others like it not being made anymore

sicidabohertz -> sicida -> suicide. vash highly disapproves of suicide

sicidabohertz also -> hertz -> hertz is the unit of frequency equivalent to one event (or cycle) per second. time does not apply to vash

gombigobilla -> gomb -> Hungarian onomatopoeia, typically referring to a button. referring to vash’s arm gun

blue -> the color of his eyes, but it’s also the opposite to his iconic red coat. red is vash’s signature color. however, the opposite of red is blue, and the opposite of vash is knives... knives is a part of his brother forever.

stradivari -> antonio stradivari was an italian craftsman of string instruments such as violins, cellos, guitars, violas and harps. he was also a luthier (repairer of instruments). you would come to him for fixing your problem, which is a broken instrument. stradivari was also at first seen as someone with unconventional ideas for violins, but was applauded later on for his innovation. vash is always seen as someone who can be manipulated into solving others’ issues (like how you see at the starting of the 90s series with the sillier filler episodes, and knives trying to use him as a weapon to wipe out the world). 

talentrent -> talent -> duh, he’s talented with a gun

pierre -> a nod to how he spoke french once while crying for “maman”

andri -> is a girls' name is of greek origin meaning "manly” and “virile". vash was created as a protagonist who has appeal for both men and women, leaving him androgynous. 

charton -> chart -> vash is creating his own morals and ethical rules for humanity. he walks an unconventional path compared to all he’s come across, and he’s navigating the waters himself. he welcomes others, but he recognizes that most of it might be spent alone due to all differences.

haymoss -> both names of plants, which rem loved

ivanovici -> ivan the great -> ivan the great was characterized as a cruel tyrant, drunk, and a misogynist, which is contradictory from his character of being a ruler of “great fairness and equity” as written by previous writers. vash’s reputation as the humanoid typhoon blackens his true personality.

baldeus -> philippus baldaeus -> created the long-held belief that the origin of european civilization started in india with hindu and buddhist origins. he was the first who told the wider european audience about krishna and the epics of ramayana and mahabharata. vash is bringing a new ideology to the people, and tries to impact them with it (seen in all episodes where he begs others to not kill, because he doesn’t believe they should). but vash’s arguments don’t normally have an impact on the people around him unlike philippus baldaeus (until it’s too late…)

george -> the name derives from the greek words “earth/soil” and “work”. another nod to the plant appreciation vash had along with rem.

doitzel -> ditz -> a scatterbrained or eccentric person. vash puts on a ditzy persona while harboring a deep sadness.

kaiser -> kaiser is the german word for "emperor". In general, the title applies to rulers anywhere in the world above the rank of king. vash can be seen as a prophet-like figure. he can be considered above all humanity, being inhuman himself but also being one of the few people to cherish human life.

and as @roronoarica pointed out, in the notes “the III has also a meaning then! He is the third independent plant besides Tesla and Knives” that was a good one 😼

[spectre-writes]

Okay, so… Trigun Stampede thoughts. All 3.3k of them. Goes without saying this will include stampede spoilers, but there will also be some spoilers for trimax and the og anime too. And there will be some critique, but understand that’s coming from a place of love (because I do love the show), but if you’re someone who just can’t deal with people critiquing things you like then uh maybe pass?

I’ll preface this by saying that I never watched the og anime back in the day. I think I tried to watch the first episode a few years back because everyone went on about it being a classic, but I just didn’t vibe with it so I gave up. So for me, there was never any nostalgia involved in my perspective on the show and on stampede as an adaptation. I watched stampede first… well, the episodes that were out at the time, and for some reason my brain just latched onto it. I then watched the og anime in its entirety, read the whole manga, and then watched the remaining stampede episodes as they came out.

Visually, stampede is stunning. I know a lot of people are ‘eh’ about CG but it was pulled off really well, the action is so fluid and the characters are still very expressive. The og anime was a product of its time - it felt very static by comparison, and the fight scenes just weren’t as intense. Some of the wacky faces and things were cool but overall I feel like stampede was a glow up in the visual department.

The tone is definitely darker than the og anime, but I think it’s still not as dark as the manga gets… whether that will change in season 2 we’ll have to see. It did strike me as odd that stampede seems to pulls its punches in some places? Like when Knives makes his grand appearance, at the end of that episode we get a shot where Gofsef and his dad are both bandaged and alive, which was weird? Because Nebraska was screaming about how EG killed his son? Like… did he just never bother to go check? Narratively it’s a strange choice considering they’ve both served their purpose by the end of episode and it feels like the writers both want to punish Vash emotionally for those he failed to save, but also leave them alive?

Same goes for Tonis to a degree… it would have been even more heart wrenching if they had died (especially for Meryl), and it’s not like the show doesn’t do horrible things to children at other points… Knives was just cutting a lot of arms off that episode I guess. But overall, the darker tone works for me - I like that sort of thing, though I get why fans of the old show might miss many of the more lighthearted elements. 

There are quite a few changes from the manga/og anime to stampede, some of which I really like, some I’m less sure about. Guess I'll use bulletpoints for this.

Removing the whole 'Vash creeping on women' thing was absolutely needed, that trope can go die, thank you.

I love how they really leaned into the whole ‘millions knives’ thing and just… gave him a million knives. Made him feel so much more threatening as a villain than he did in the og anime, and fits with the abilities he shows off later in the manga. 

Changing his original name from Knives to Nai (Kni?) makes way more sense than calling a child Knives too.

I’m personally fine with them changing Merly to a reporter and adding Roberto - the insurance girl thing seems a bit silly for the tone they’re going for in stampede, and as it’s also a prequel it gives her room to grow into the character she is after the events of July. And since we know we’re getting Milly in season two I don’t consider ‘no Milly’ a valid complaint.

I don’t mind the changes to Elendira, it’s a way to explain her powers and I think with the timeskip there’s a very real chance we’ll see her more like her manga counterpart in season 2, and I appreciate what they’re trying to do with the whole plant experimentation thing. Like… Knives wanting to wipe out all humans and start a paradise kind of falls flat on its face as a concept when you consider that he and Vash are the only independent plants, and also no one seems to know how to make new plants. Like… their sisters are still going to have to live in containers and as a species they’re a dead end. Him and Conrad looking into solutions to this (for different reasons since Conrad thinks it’s possibly a way for humans to continue as hybrids and Knives only cares about plants) gives the impression that he’s thought things through a bit harder. 

I think some of the changes to Vash and Knives’s relationship are good - I love how in this version, Knives cuts his arm off not just because he’s angry and being a dick about it, but because Vash opened his gate with no control and could accidentally kill them all. He’s trying to save him. You get a real sense that he still cares about Vash… you can see the pain on his face when Vash points his gun at him. 

The choice to split them up earlier too rather than have Vash follow him around for years before they split allows them time to build up their own lives, and when they clash it’s because they have both been pulled in different directions. 

I’m fine with them giving Vash and Knives more distinct personalities as children, with Knives being more quiet and withdrawn and Vash being more outgoing and boisterous… but I do wish they’d left in stuff about how Knives was initially just as hopeful about humanity as Vash was? Like… in the manga, at least, he really wanted humans to be their friends, he wanted to be loved and accepted by them too… part of the tragedy of him is that he wasn’t always the way he is. So it would have been cool to see that.

As for ship 3… I think them first picking up Vash works fine, as again, it gives him a chance to grow apart from Knives and see something good worth protecting again. I’m less sure about Brad and Luida being there? And then also being there 150 years later? Like I get that they want to give Vash a sense of family, but I think what stood out to me about ship 3 was that Vash’s attachment to it isn’t just because of two parental figures… Vash is old. He’s not human. He’s watched generations of these people grow old and die, and he’s loved and cared for their children, and their children’s children. They’re this big community that he loves, and he knows all their names and remembers them all, but he’s never… quite one of them in the same way. Which is kind of the tragedy of being Vash. I would have loved if after the sand steamer episodes, when Vash wakes up there’s a couple of people who look like Brad and Luida there to greet him… but no one mentions their names, and there’s something just… a little off about it, little quirks that aren’t the same… and then it clicks. We get dropped the truth - that that’s not Brad and Luida, that’s their grandchildren. Vash outlived them. He’s 150 years old, he’s always going to outlive humans and that’s just something he has to accept.  It also would have been nice to see more of the other people living on ship 3, especially to set up a part from the manga/og anime which I really, really hope will be adapted. Like… Vash has to see these people that he loves so much just… fall apart in his arms. Families, adults he’s watched grow from infancy, children, everyone… For stampede they now either have the option of killing Brad and Luida that way, or trying to squeeze in some time with the ship 3 peeps in the second season so that their deaths have an impact, when they could have just done the leg work in this season. But hey that’s probably a problem with the limited number of episodes.

Back to other changes… I think introducing Livio that early was a good call, so he doesn’t come out of nowhere later. 

But I do feel like we should have seen more of Legato given the big part he’s supposed to play later (if they follow the manga). He kinda just disappeared after the sand steamer episodes.

I’m… still not sure how I feel about them revealing the whole SEEDs ship thing and Knives part in the crash so early on. I think it was done with intent - stampede (the first season at least) only has 12 episodes to make things happen, so they need to cover stuff fast. For me… while maintaining the mystery for longer was cool, the og anime was too slow. There was a lot of filler and stuff before we even got to the main plot points and honestly if I hadn’t seen stampede I would have given up on it. I think what I would have liked would be some kind of middle ground? Like… something between the two which lets you uncover the mystery but still feeds you enough that you know there’s something there and can begin piecing it together.

Getting to see the July incident as it happens was obviously a change, and I’m on the side about that one too… like… Vash kind of knowing that he completely destroyed a city but having no memory of it and trying to figure out what happened and that being part of his journey? I feel like we won’t get that, because Meryl and Wolfwood can just tell him what happened. It’s not going to hang over him in the same way. 

And on that subject, I think they really, really needed to dedicate some time to just… showing people living in July? In the manga, when Vash regains his memory of destroying July, part of why it’s so traumatic is because he spent several days living there, talking to the people there… seeing their kindness, glimpsing that community, getting to be a part of that briefly… and he just erases all those smiling faces in the blink of an eye. In stampede we only see some military police who shot Vash and tried to capture him, and one noodle seller who none of the main gang interacts with. I just… think July would have so much more impact if we’d had an episode dedicated to them spending time there first… This also means we probably won’t get Vash accidentally mindblasting the event into Meryl’s brain (because she was there anyway and Vash never connected with the people in the city), which personally I think is a shame…

Last change that stands out to me is that Vash's use of the angel arm is fully intentional in this adaptation. I’m on the fence on this? On one hand, it’s needed, because Vash has been fairly passive for a lot of this show, and horrible things just happen to him, so for him to have some agency and sort of win a fight makes for a more satisfying climax? On the other hand, the horror of Kives forcing him to manifest the arm against his will and him not being able to control that part of himself is sort of gone? We do still get the creepy sort-of-rape buisness with Knives making him uhh… do that to the other plants and go all black and viney, but it’s different? It’s… yeah, I dunno. Makes me wonder if they’re going to do anything with the 5th moon incident and all that, seeing as it’s strange for Vash to seemingly have so much more control over his abilities and still get made to basically cause the same catastrophe twice… It would feel less satisfying happening a second time around if he just does the same thing we saw during July and tries to blast the energy into space? So on one hand I like it and on the other hand I don’t, if that makes sense?

Moving on from changes, I think the show could have also benefited from some stuff that was skipped/missing. Some of this would have resulted in better pacing, better characterisation, or fill a few plot holes that go ignored. I guess the best way for me to cover this is to go in order of episodes?

So, I’m fine with the start, but maybe there should have been one more episode between Wolfwood’s introduction and the sand steamer episodes. We get the one with Rollo, but I think one more to cement his place in the group would have been nice. I also think the sand steamer event should have had one more episode. A lot of the two we get is filled with flashbacks, and while I love those (and the style they’re done in) it means that there’s less time to cover events happening in the present. The badlads gang just… kind of shows up, gets punched down by Vash, and disappears again… they don’t serve much of a purpose. Having an extra episode for them to be more of a threat, and Vash (and maybe Roberto and Meryl) having to deal with that would be more satisfying (for me at least). And if we want to stick a little closer to the source material, then Vash dealing with the badlad’s gang leader could result in him helping them (maybe with the canon this time? Because two people pushing it up is silly, not gonna lie I had to suspend my disbelief for that). So yeah, that would be my first major change.

Then I still have an issue with how it’s never explained how Vash gets from the plant room on the sand steamer to ship 3. Did he call them? Do they have some kind of ‘Vash is in danger’ sensor that alerted them he was in trouble? How did they convince Meryl and Wolfwood and Roberto to let them take him?

I would, if I could, add another episode after the flashback one which shows Vash getting picked up, and then gives us a little more time on ship 3. Time to see the people there, get a sense of the community that lives there… I also think we could have actually seen Meryl and Roberto getting kidnapped, because that happening offscreen was weird. 

As I mentioned before, another episode to better flesh out July is needed. And I think I would maybe add another episode so that we could have some more time on flashbacks… specifically, there’s events from the manga that I feel were too briefly touched upon in stampede to have their full effect. 

I am, of course, talking mostly about Tesla… In a lot of ways, she’s the turning point for the twins. Before then, they were both hopeful about humanity and wanted to be accepted by them. But after Tesla… they break down. 

Following the manga, Knives and Vash lock themselves away for days. When Rem finally gets to them, Knives ends up in a coma. Vash wakes up first, and faced with the reality of what humans did to his older sister… he tries to kill himself. Just grabs the knife and goes for it. Rem stops him by grabbing the blade, and Vash ends up stabbing her. And there’s this moment… a brief moment, when Vash seems happy with what he’s done… before it all comes crashing down and he realizes what he’s done, how that’s not what he wants, and he drops the knife and patches Rem up.

When she wakes up again, they have a conversation. She tells him about her depression following her partner’s death, and how she had a dream where she was handed a blank train ticket. And she was happy because it could take her anywhere. And after that, she joined the SEEDS project, which led her to meeting Vash and Knives. She tells Vash that everyone deserves that blank ticket.

This is a really important moment for him, because I think that’s where he solidifies his ideals. The idea that people all deserve the chance to start fresh. The idea that killing isn’t okay because it robs people of that chance, and also dying isn’t okay because of his promise to her… 

Stampede touches on it briefly with Vash telling Luida and Brad that he wanted them to leave him there to die, but I think the manga touches on it much more closely. Vash has… tried to kill himself as a child. And I think, at times, he would quite like to die as an adult too (because he goes through so much suffering). But he doesn’t, because he has so much to do and people to protect and he promised Rem… and ugh, it hurts, but he still has that blank ticket. And sometimes, he still finds joy in the world, and those little moments mean a lot…

And we’ve seen that Vash is capable of lashing out too. He stabbed Rem. But in the same way that Knives used to be as loving of humanity as Vash, Vash had the same capacity to strike as his brother… 

Now, Knives… when he wakes up, he says he remembers nothing (idk if that’s actually true it’s very possible he was lying). They tell him about Tesla. He pretends everything is fine, but he quietly plots to take down the ships, and we get a panel of him biting at his hand while he works… you get an idea that he’s super anxious. He’s afraid. He’s so afraid of what humans could do to him and his brother, and that’s what motivates him. Not just hate or betrayal, but a deep, visceral fear he won’t admit to. I feel like stampede didn’t quite hit the mark there… 

We might get a closer look at the events around Tesla in a season 2… it’s implied (?) in stampede that Knives might have absorbed what was left of her (which is a departure from the source, but also sets up/hints at later major plot points). But we’ll see.

On the whole I think the pacing of the very last episode was fine. And they’ve set some stuff up for season two (Milly confirmed)!

Moving into season two there’s going to be changes to the source again, but I am super glad we’ll be getting to stuff that the og anime never had a chance to adapt. One thing I am curious about is Wolfwood… seeing as in stampede, he’s already betrayed Vash and handed him over to Knives and cut his ties (?) to the Eye of Michael. So, this time around, I’m guessing his motive for tracking down Vash is going to be either personal, or he is invested in stopping Knives or the Eye of Michael and wants to find Vash because Vash could help… 

I also wonder how much of his memory Vash has lost… and are we going to get the darkening hair effect? Please say we still get the 5th moon incident? Can we have more body horror pretty please? Are they aiming for a different ending from the manga or are they going to play that the same? I… kind of, really want a scene of Vash and Knives actually reconciling this time and maybe playing piano together… 

So yeah… that’s… kind of my thoughts for the moment, as best I can put them. I really enjoyed stampede! I think it has some flaws but I’m so glad to have been pulled into the Trigun universe and experience these characters and I am very excited for what comes next.